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Was Jesus married? Discussion coming up at the University of the Pacific

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Posted: Sunday, November 18, 2012 11:56 am | Updated: 8:04 am, Mon Nov 19, 2012.

Several University of the Pacific professors will discuss whether Jesus Christ was ever married during a special presentation on Dec. 5.

Caroline Schroeder, a professor of early Christianity at Pacific, was present when Harvard University professor Karen King said that she had identified and translated a piece of papyrus that suggests that Jesus had a wife.

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Welcome to the discussion.

19 comments:

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:09 am on Thu, Dec 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Tygert stated...Perhaps I will write a article of my observations after attending then...

    I hope you do! Your ability to articulate your thoughts and make thoughtful observations is outstanding. I would be interested in what you have to say. I wish my ability matched yours as I would not have asked if you were being flippant or condescending previously . I apologize.

     
  • Sarah Elizabeth Tygert posted at 9:07 pm on Tue, Dec 4, 2012.

    Sarah Tygert Posts: 53

    Perhaps I will write a article of my observations after attending then. And thank you for the civil discussion as well!

    I understand far too many scholars to be drawn into the controversy hype, and unfortunately this seems like another one of them. I fail to see why the Harvard professor would even bring this into discussion before the object in question has even gone through the proper dating tests.... But we shall see. I hope that it's at least informative in some way, but one can find pretty much all they need to know about this piece and it's history with a careful google search...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:09 pm on Mon, Dec 3, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Tygert stated...I plan to be at this discussion, and hope against all hope that you're wrong in the controversial intention. But we shall see.

    Thank you for the civil discussion. I too do not know of any Christians that are prone to violence when what they perceive as anti Christian events are held. I'm sure the event will go well.

    I do have questions. If the intended goal is to demonstrate that Jesus was married, and the evidence presented leads some to perceive it true, what will be the consequences? What outcome do the proponents of this theory hope for? Is this just an intellectual discussion? I think the true intent of this focus can be brought out only by focusing on the implications and desired outcome by the people who are fueling this debate.
    Personally, I do not care one way or the other. I think this has anti-Christianity flavors and to think this is only an intellectual venture is not a reasonable conclusion to reach.

     
  • Sarah Elizabeth Tygert posted at 1:57 am on Mon, Dec 3, 2012.

    Sarah Tygert Posts: 53

    Be careful with people group generalities. There are many a good people who acclaim to the Muslim faith. Certainly, there are Muslims who react with violence. But there are also Christians who do the same, such as those who have senselessly murdered homosexuals or abortion doctors. There is no reason to then assume that all people of that people group will and often do act the same.

    Regardless, I plan to be at this discussion, and hope against all hope that you're wrong in the controversial intention. But we shall see.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:25 pm on Sun, Dec 2, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I earlier had stated…If Christians responded to meeting like the one scheduled at UOP I would think violence would result.

    This is not what I intended to say. It should have been, if Christians responded to a meeting like the one scheduled at UOP in the same way that people of the Muslim faith respond in various countries, I would think violence would result.

    Sorry for the misstatement.

     
  • Sarah Elizabeth Tygert posted at 12:39 am on Fri, Nov 30, 2012.

    Sarah Tygert Posts: 53

    Mr. Baumbach- No condescension intended, not irreverence or irrespect, nor a need to think that of myself. I simply do not understand your observation, nor do I know any Christians who would become violent about such a discussion. I don't even understand why you would assume such a reaction from a people group. So perhaps you can enlighten us?

    You seem to have misunderstood my statement concerning facts and data - Although you are right in that nothing can prove or disprove matters of faith, it can lead us closer to other matters. Proof may be a poor choice of words for historical matters so long ago, closer to an understanding perhaps.

    UOP actually does have a Muslim Student Association, so although a letter to the university in general may get you nowhere, perhaps there would? You also seem to think that the panel is opening for an alternate agenda, asking me to "prove" their intention is knowledge. I can not answer that, I am not hosting the event. The only ones who could answer is those who are. Unfortunately, the reality is that scholars and Ph.Ds are not except from stirring the controversial pot for media attention, but I suppose to be fair we can not safely assume anything. But knowledge is power, and when there are holes in that knowledge we are left with nothing but assumptions and respective observations.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:51 am on Thu, Nov 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    As for your query, write UOP? Perhaps request such a discussion. Your question can not be intelligently answered here.

    I assume you are being flippant... I summit that no universities in California has held one event ever that questioned the tenets and core principles of the Muslim faith. Why would I waste my time writing to UOP?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:33 am on Thu, Nov 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Tygert also stated...The purpose of the discussion is to ascertain knowledge, not to offend anyone.

    Please provide evidence that this is the purpose. How do you know for a fact that their are not alternate agenda's. In addition, the purpose of the meeting is not my concern. That Christians take offense to this topic and people like yourself do not take that into consideration is insensitive from my perspective. In fact, the thought does not even cross your mind.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:32 am on Thu, Nov 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Tygert stated.. If you believe it an offensive concept that “your Messiah” would be wed, than surely the data and facts will show that it was never the case.

    Response.. why the condescending tone? I often see verbiage like yours from people who do not respect people of faith. I do not have a messiah. I am not religious or pray. I do not think there is data or facts that prove that any god exists or that Jesus was the son of god. It is a matter of faith in my opinion. I assume you are being facetious when you put forth that data and facts will result from any meeting UOP may hold about something that might have happened 2000 years ago. To suggest that having a supposed intellectual discussion at this meeting would prove one way or the other that Jesus was married or not is absurd. This event at UOP cannot possibly prove anything. Therefore, the actual agenda must be something other than seeking truth.

    I am simply making an observation that there appears to be a concerted effort to attack the Christian religion world wide and secular organizations never miss an opportunity to ridicule and mock people would claim to be Christian. If Christians responded to meeting like the one scheduled at UOP I would think violence would result. I guarantee if the topic was about the Muslim faith and questioned the core principle of that faith, UOP would definitely consider the potential violent backlash that most likely would take place.

     
  • Sarah Elizabeth Tygert posted at 2:44 pm on Wed, Nov 28, 2012.

    Sarah Tygert Posts: 53

    The cause for discussions on Christianity is quite clear, the majority of this country and society claim to be Christian while only .6% of the population claims Islam as their religion. A discussion on Islam simply doesn't interest many people. Besides which, Islam is an awfully new religion compared to Christianity, there isn't nearly a comparable amount of literature to discuss, nor history.

    As for your query, write UOP? Perhaps request such a discussion. Your question can not be intelligently answered here.

    The purpose of the discussion is to ascertain knowledge, not to offend anyone. Without conversation, nothing is ever gained intellectually. So please, illuminate us: why the offense? If you believe it an offensive concept that your Messiah would be wed, than surely the data and facts will show that it was never the case. So why hinder the pursuit of the answer?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:52 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    My point is that our society has these kinds of discussions concerning Christianity often. Why is it I have never seen such an event as this concerning the Muslim faith. If Christians are offended, no one cares. That you fail to understand how some Christians would be offended only means you failed.

    I too failed l to see why president Obama thought anyone would be offended by the video that questioned Mohammed, but he was convinced it plausible and that wide spread violence broke out because of it.

    May I ask when was the last time UOP held a discussion of scholarly matters that contradicted the teaching of the Koran and their beliefs in Mohammed?

    I find it odd that no one is concerned if this topic offends Christians or not. In fact, Ms. Tygert appears surprised and bewildered how it could be possible...and even if they are, who cares…after all, it is a scholarly matter, right?

     
  • Sarah Elizabeth Tygert posted at 6:31 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

    Sarah Tygert Posts: 53

    I fail to understand how an article posting about a discussion on scholarly matters is at all offensive to the Christianity... The sexuality of Jesus has always been something that is totally left out of the canonized Christian scriptures, and so is awfully intriguing.

    It... has nothing to do with Islam... so why the comparison?

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:25 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1117

    "Inexplicably removed again"

    [wink]

     
  • Doug Chaney posted at 4:21 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

    advocate Posts: 500

    Perhaps Christianity is ridiculed because of those defrocked, molesting catholic priests like Michael Kelly, who refuses to return to the US to fact the many new charges filed against him for more molestations.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:55 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I think it wonderful that UOP puts on this event as it is worth understanding. I also know that it is considered very insulting to Christians however.

    Given that president Obama stood in front of the United Nations and stated that a silly video on you tube that only had 100 hits at the time, caused violence all over the Muslim world, and given that the video producer hides his face in fear of being killed, and given it is a common event of death threats to anyone who makes fun of Mohammed, I would think it a healthy topic to discuss why Christianity can be ridiculed and questioned even at the university level yet the Muslim faith is not

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:23 pm on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    RULES THAT HAVE BEEN BROKEN, BUT THIS POST WAS ALLOWED TO STAND: - NOT ONLY STAND, BUT WAS RESTORED AFTER BEING DELETED.

    -Keep it clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually oriented language.

    RACIST LANGUAGE THAT DENIGRATES ARABS, PAKISTANIS, INDIANS AND OTHERS WHO ARE PRIMARILY MUSLIM BY SUGGESTING THEY WOULD BURN DOWN A UNIVERSITY TO PROTEST THE TOPIC OF A SCHOLARLY DISCUSSION.

    -Don't lie about anyone or anything.

    A LIE WAS PERPETRATED - POSTER HAS NO EVIDENCE THAT "MUSLIMS WOULD BURN UOP TO THE GROUND."

    -Make sure your comments are about the story. Don't flame each other.

    THE COMMENT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STORY - THE STORY WAS ANNOUNCING A SCHOLARLY LECTURE THAT HAD TO DO WITH RECENTLY UNEARTHED ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE ABOUT JESUS POSSIBLY HAVING A WIFE.

    -No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.

    THE COMMENT WAS RACIST AND BIGOTED IN NATURE AS IT IMPLIED THAT MUSLIMS WILL, AT THE DROP OF A HAT, CREATE HAVOC BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE WITH SOME PREMISE OF THEIR RELIGION THAT WAS NOT EVEN THE SUBJECT OF THIS ARTICLE.

    This is a disgraceful, disgusting, vile, vulgar, abusive, racist, bigoted comment that should not be allowed to stand by the LNS.

    Shame on the editorial staff.

     
  • Simon Birch posted at 8:56 am on Mon, Nov 19, 2012.

    Simon Birch - Online Manager Posts: 159 Staff

    Darrell: Your first comment had been reported as inappropriate by more than 2 people, which automatically removes the comment for review. I've restored the comment.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:56 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Made a comment but it was deleted... why? Have no idea.

    This topic is offensive to many Christians. Making a comparison to how our society is afraid to have similar controversial conversations about the Muslim faith is an important issue. Evidently, LNS agrees with me thus deleting my comment.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:22 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Imagine if this topic was about Mohammed. UOP would likely be burnt to the ground, but since this involves Christians, I'm sure it will be a meaningful event in peaceful tranquility.

     

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