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Guantanamo Bay isn’t any worse than prisons in Iran

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Posted: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:00 am

The Muslim prisoners at Guantanamo are on a hunger strike and are making certain demands of the jailers.

I have no idea what Guantanamo is like, but I am sure their conditions are no worse than conditions for the young, innocent Christian minister being held in what is considered a terrible prison in Iran simply for being a Christian. He has committed no murderous acts of terrorism, but he's been beaten, abused and denied medical care. All he wants to do is be with his family and serve God. Maybe he should demand this and see how far he gets.

These murderous jihadists, like the Fort Hood killer, have sworn to kill as many Americans as possible — men, women and children — and will never change. Have they all been tried and convicted?

Mr. Obama wants to close Guantanamo, and I am sure he would love to turn these fanatics loose. Of the ones already released, 30 percent have returned to terrorist activities. As long as Obama is in office, we will be soft on these people who want to murder and maim us.

Heaven forbid that we must wait 'til 2016 to get rid of Obama, and by then Hillary Clinton will be running for that office. Hopefully we'll all remember Benghazi before electing a person like her, and get a true American back into office. Perhaps Benghazi hearings this week will do the trick; otherwise, when Obamacare fully kicks in next year, maybe his followers will finally see the light.

Sonia Glick

Lodi

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Welcome to the discussion.

52 comments:

  • Robert Jacobs posted at 11:43 am on Mon, May 13, 2013.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    Do you usually waste ink?

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:52 am on Sun, May 12, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1533

    Are you really attempting to prove partisanship on this forum? Have you ever given a positive comment to a liberal posting? How about you try proving the sun rose today or it's cold in December?

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 3:28 pm on Sat, May 11, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    Good After Noon Joanne: In your recent post I feel the need to update you on a few misquotes. You are correct believing I am 86 if I served in WW11. However I do not recall saying I was in WW11 since I didn`t. I was 7 years old in 1945 when the war ended. Now on to Pink Floyd, a space rock band lead singer was David Gilmore in 1965 and from Cambridge England They had many hits including Brick in the Wall, Comfortably Numb, and Dark Side of the Moon, among other hits. According to Joanne as you say I am a really a Great, Grandfather and can still Rock on. All the great music can still be found on YouTube, I date myself by saying I don`t prefer anyone in the music business today, good blues music is also a favorite.

    I don`t believe in todays Gay lifestyle, as you seem to think I do. The death of Harvey Milk started the gay revolution, George Moscone the cities mayor seems to be put out to pasture as both were murdered by Dan White. And BTW Joanne, there could become a time when you have a gay person living next to you, however I don`t believe you will feel the need to send him a post, he or she just might be a nice person, you never can tell now, can you. Have great day, Eric Clapton is also one of my favorites, with a long list of blues musicians you never heard of. Rock On

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:53 am on Sat, May 11, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "Argumentative and stirring the pot?"

    So you believe that making a comparison of the our torture of prisoners to what Mr. Walters believes is the homosexual lifestyle on any given day is appropriate?

    I'll take YOUR comments as a yes. And I'm not surprised to hear that from another poster who can't help but make vulgar comments.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:50 am on Sat, May 11, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Excellent reporting Mr. Dockter.

    The only thing you left out was Ronald Reagan's intentional breaking of US law when he instructed Olly North to sell arms to Iran (against the US embargo) and use the funds from said sales to fund the Nicaraguan Contras (also against US law).

    Why Reagan was not impeached for this we'll never know - but I guess the bloodlust was satisfied by imprisoning North.

    And then one ignorant person who used to comment on this site made a big deal about the history book that Hugo Chavez gave to Obama, as though he and Obama were best buddies.

    The name of the book? "Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent."

    The book includes the story of decades of US interference in Latin America in which we supported coups that overthrew democratically elected governments (Chile) and exploited the land for its oil and minerals.

    Sounds more like a message to keep hands off than the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:37 am on Sat, May 11, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Mr. Jacobs,

    Do you always go by the book and never exercise your common sense when making decisions?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:20 am on Sat, May 11, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839







    -No surprise at all

    .

    http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/noonan-benghazi-driven-politics/2013/05/10/id/503889?promo_code=F492-1&utm_source=Test_Newsmax_Feed&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1

    The Obama administration's reaction to the Benghazi attack last September was guided solely by politics, Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan charged Friday.

    "The Obama White House sees every event as a political event," she said. "Really, every event, even an attack on a consulate and the killing of an ambassador. Because of that, it could not tolerate the idea that the armed assault on the Benghazi consulate was a premeditated act of Islamist terrorism."

    The former Reagan speechwriter said the administration was worried that declaring the attack as an act of terrorism would carry negative implications for President Barack Obama's re-election campaign and perhaps require military action.

    "They wanted this problem to go away, or at least to bleed the meaning from it," Noonan wrote in her column.

    "Because the White House could not tolerate the idea of Benghazi as a planned and deliberate terrorist assault, it had to be made into something else. So they said it was a spontaneous street demonstration over an anti-Muhammad YouTube video made by a nutty California con man."

    This gave the Obama administration an out on being forced to take military action, she added.

    "If what happened in Benghazi was not a planned and prolonged terrorist assault, if it was merely a street demonstration gone bad, the administration could not take military action to protect Americans there," Noonan wrote.

    In the end, she said, it was the election campaign that drove the administration's handling of the tragedy.

    "Why couldn't the administration tolerate the idea that Benghazi was a planned terrorist event? Because they didn't want this attack dominating the headline with an election coming."

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:10 am on Sat, May 11, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Sonia Glick,

    Excellent points in your letter

    I suspect if it was Bush in office saying he wanted to close this prison, those on the left would be screaming at the top of their voices in anger and disgust wondering how the people managed to elect such an incompetent President.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:15 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    -I hope Ms. Bobin isn't stupid enough to say Reagan was uniquely involved in the propping up of dictatorships


    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles/Nevins_Carter.htm

    Carter lauded and supported the brutal regime of the Shah of Iran until the bitter end, for example. In Nicaragua, his administration provided significant support to the hated Somoza dictatorship. And in El Salvador, he extended large amounts of military and economic aid to a country whose army was engaging in widespread massacres, even after the slaying of its Catholic archbishop, and four Americans--three Maryknoll nuns and one lay churchworker.

    In the case of Indonesia's illegal invasion and occupation of East Timor, Carter followed a similar path. In late 1977, when Indonesia was actually running out of military equipment, his administration authorized a dramatic increase in arms sales to Jakarta. And over the next several months, the Carter White House approved sales of fighter jets and ground-attack bombers to Indonesia's Suharto regime, whose military employed them in East Timor to bomb and napalm the population into submission. An Australian parliamentary commission would later characterize the period as one of "indiscriminate killing on a scale unprecedented in post-World War II history."

    For such reasons, it is a mistake to present the human rights record of Carter's presidency as qualitatively different from those that came before and after. Indeed, Carter's support for brutal regimes, combined with the significant growth in military spending that he oversaw during his White House years, helped to lay the foundation for the even more odious policies of the Reagan years that followed.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:55 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Obviously this information came from the Ed Shultz variety where people like Lawrence make it a habit of being spoonfed this rubbish and adamantly disagree with anyone who says this type of news reporting is a distortion of the truth.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:44 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Lawrence Steinberg stated:

    LOL! You may think you know Ed but have you met Edna?

    -Chuckle,

    You may think you know Lawrence but have you met Leonard?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:40 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Eric Barrow stated:

    Ed in fairness Joanne only responds negatively to the far right attitudes Joanne has responded positively to many liberal comments.

    - I rest my case.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:38 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobin stated

    From your tone, I guess I'll just have to presume that you are personally familiar with these "occurences in the Castro" and since they must be part of your lifestyle, as you speak of it with such familiarity, you have taken offense at my calling your description vulgar.

    -Obviously Ms Bobin can't refrain from being argumentative and stirring the pot.. Based on her logic, anyone that has done any research or knows of the goings on in the Castro District must be part of their lifestyle. And since Nancy Pelosi's district includes many parts of of SF she is well aware of the goings on in the Castro District
    she must then be part odf that lifestyle too. But I highly doubt Ms. Bobin would go as far to make this charge on her considering she agrees with so many of her positions
    politically and nearly none with Ed. In other words, her agenda is quite clear.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:31 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Fantastic!

    Former Guatamalan dictator and Ronald Reagan buddy, Efrain Rios Montt, was just convicted of crimes against humanity and genocide - 80 years in prison - but it's too bad he is already in his late 80's.

    From the article:

    "Former U.S. President Ronald Reagan provided support for Rios Montt's government and said in late 1982 that the dictator was getting a "bum rap" from rights groups for his military campaign against left-wing guerrillas during the Cold War."

    Bum rap?

    Let's hope Ronald Reagan is getting a bum rap in the after life for supporting scum like this.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 6:14 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Hey, Ed! Why is it that a lot of you doesn't add up?

    You have said you are a WWII vet - that would make you about 86 at the minimum if you entered the service in 45 (toward the end of the war) at the age of 18, or 90+ if you joined in 41 at 18 or more..

    My dad was a WWII vet and he died 21 years ago at the age of 72. That would make him about 93 today, but he would no more know anything about "the Castro" or "Pink Floyd" than most 80-93 year olds would.

    My husband is a Vietnam vet and I just asked him if he knew who Pink Floyd was - he said, "HE is a singer."

    Either you are a really, really hipster Great Granddad, or you have been misrepresenting yourself.

    I vote for "hipster Great Granddad."

    Yeah, I had to work today so the dogs couldn't go out to the park until 3:30, but had a great time hunting gophers and playing with their doggie friends. Beautiful day to be at the dog park and the oldsters in their camp chairs were out in force.

     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 5:13 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    Poor Sonia, I guess you don't believe in the United States Constitution, The Geneva Conventions, and human rights for every person? Because that has been bed rock principle for over a hundred years in these United States! Did you miss that in school?

    It doesn't matter that Iran is bad, good or indifferent or any other nation! That isn't the issue or what is important. The issue is about what we (Americans, and human beings) do.

    The United States are the good guys (so I was taught in school many moons ago) that we don't torture or treat people wrongly. We have this thing in our country (indeed in-stilled in me and many other truly patriotic Americans) called "due process" (it is what sets us (Americans) apart from those of which we are seeking otherwise we are no different, and indeed worse than those we seek) which stretches across national borders and into other nations. Because we (Americans) do the right thing in war and in practice no matter where we are! We don't stoop to torture, or animal actions! We are Americans and we do the right thing as best we can no matter what other nations or peoples do! And again this is what sets us apart, and the comments you made are which divides true Amercians!

    You've also missed the fact that over the past 50 years or so we (United States) have invaded and bombed and killed 10 of thousands of people ( including many innocent civilians!) in other sovereign nations, in the name of right or what ever the reason they (United States government) give at the time! Excluding World War 1 and ll. And not you, the United States government, and many American citizens, give two thoughts or two Sh**S to those people (who were bombed by Americans) who no doubt we hurt, and angry at their dead ones lying on the ground amonst broken buildings!

    The United States have finally been hit at (I say finally, becasue we have been killing other people for decades. I don't know what took them so long?) home, and we are incensed, hurt and angry! And what do we do, we attack two nations and kill indiscriminately or with the acceptable civilian casualties ratio! Not to mention we don't really know who is doing what for the most part other wise the American Government wouldn't have had to go to war with two nations! They would have just rounded up the guilty individuals!

    I'm of Scottish decent, over a hundred years removed. And I love these United States and the people here. This is my home, its all I know. However, I do NOT and I will NOT ever support a government or people who do wrong no matter what others do! I do the right thing the best I can. I don't need to list right and wrong to you or anyone, we all know what right and wrong is! If someone kills one of us, we go after them and we bring them to justice not torture!

    God protect us from each other!

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:00 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1533

    Ed in fairness Joanne only responds negatively to the far right attitudes Joanne has responded positively to many liberal comments. I do agree the weathers great and I like your life philosophies. Rock on.

     
  • Lawrence Steinberg posted at 2:26 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Lawrence Steinberg Posts: 65

    LOL! You may think you know Ed but have you met Edna?

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 1:49 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    Joanne: I am going to return to the nice guy, not that I ever left, though you don`t see it that way. Make an attempt follow my lead. Evidently you are not having a nice day, do you ever have a nice day being contrary to every post that is written? Give it a try, you will be a better person for it. Leona Helmsley was the Queen of mean, no need to follow her. Did you walk the dogs today, my Labs are ready to go swimming, even if I have a bad day, they brighten it. All this talk on the Opinion page is just talk, you seem to let it get you down. Like Pink Floyd said, we are all "Just another brick in the Wall", and that's enough for today.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:25 pm on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Ed - I'm sorry that you just don't get it. And no, I am not screaming - but apparently you either forgot the vulgar reference in your original post or you are attempting to make believe it wasn't there.

    I'll try to make it clear this time - My point was that comparing the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison to "normal" and "pleasurable" homosexual activity in San Francisco is just down right disgusting.

    If you don't get the point this time, it is time to check and make sure you've got your patch on today.

    Otherwise, you quite remind me of a former poster who would adamantly deny that he wrote something when he clearly did. Take your choice.

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 11:16 am on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    OK Joanne, round too. From pink panties to dogs, to a pile of naked guys was well documented and was carried out by the US Army in 2006 at Abu Ghraib prison as a form of torcher. I was born and raised in SF, nice place then, 60 years ago. Joanne you presume more than you should, I haven`t been in the city for over 30 years. And now I have more important things to do rather than trade barbs with you. Take a deep breath and walk your dogs, a great day for it, as I will do the same. And as you well know capital letters mean your screaming, tone it down. Have a nice day.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:44 am on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "Wilfully ignorant and mentally oblivious,

    As I have stated many times in the past, "I can lead you to knowledge but unfortunately I can't make you think."

    I think that your smug sense of self-importance has gotten the better of you, Mr. Liebich.

    I don't think that anyone here would or has argued with the fact the US has committed acts of torture and that Obama declined to prosecute anyone from the Bush Administration for these crimes - I'm sure you would state that he couldn't go forth with prosecutions since he intended to commit the same crimes.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:32 am on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Ed Walters wrote: "Joanne: Your calling my post vulgar, give me a break since all I posted was out of the media and not made up by myself. I`m still a real nice guy."

    I guess you don't read what you write, Ed. The vulgarity I was referring to was the following in CAPITAL LETTERS:

    "If you call putting pink panties on the head of someone that would love to see you with your head separated from your body, or having a dog growl, or putting a killer on a dog leash,or a bunch of naked guys, yep that's enhanced interrogation,"

    "BESIDES THAT'S AN EVERYDAY OCCURENCE IN THE CASTRO DISTRICT OF SAN FRANCISCO AND MOST WOULD CALL IT PLEASURE RATHER THAN PAIN."

    From your tone, I guess I'll just have to presume that you are personally familiar with these "occurences in the Castro" and since they must be part of your lifestyle, as you speak of it with such familiarity, you have taken offense at my calling your description vulgar.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:40 am on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobin stated:

    Afghans took control of Bagram in 2010. And most of the abuse and torture of prisoners took place under the auspices of the Bush Administration's policy of "enhanced interrogation."

    -Even so. No one can be sure "enhanced interrogation" is not occurring under the auspices of the Obama Admin. In any event. Anyone suggesting the advanced interrogation techniques that were used under the auspices of the Bush Admin. were evil and should not have been used thus trivializes the crimes the terrorists committed.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:24 am on Fri, May 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Wilfully ignorant and mentally oblivious,

    As I have stated many times in the past, "I can lead you to knowledge but unfortunately I can't make you think."

    Also from your own "Wiki" Mr. Heuer... [sleeping]

    "The United States military will maintain control over dozens of foreign detainees in Bagram for the indefinite future. “If we keep these people with us in this current situation and deal with them, this will create more problems for us,” General Ghulam Farouk, the Afghan official who runs the Afghan-controlled portions of Parwan, said. “Therefore it is better for the Americans to keep them.” Further, although thousands of Afghan detainees have already been turned over, the United States will continue to hold and screen newly captured Afghans, ensuring continued American involvement in detention and interrogation activities."

    And Ms. Bobin...

    Under section 2340 in title 18 of the U.S. Code, an act of torture committed outside the United States is a felony. The law defines torture as “an act committed by a person under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control.” Both Bush and Obama have committed a felony Ms. Bobin.

    Additionally, the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which the United States helped draft and then signed, bans torture in all forms. The United States is a party to multiple other conventions and treaties that prohibit torture and supposedly have the force of law. International law defines torture during an armed conflict as a war crime, and mandates that any person ordering, facilitating, or even insufficiently preventing torture is liable under the doctrine of “command responsibility.”

    No one disputes that the "enhanced interrogation techniques" ordered by the George W. Bush administration, employed by the CIA and the Pentagon, and tacitly approved by select members of Congress were intended to inflict severe pain and suffering on persons in the custody of the U.S. government.

    ABC News reported on April 9, 2008, that “the most senior Bush administration officials discussed and approved specific details of how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency.” According to the article, those involved included Vice President Cheney, former National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell, as well as CIA Director George Tenet and Attorney General John Ashcroft.

    Moreover, it has been reported that Democratic congressional leaders were briefed by the Bush administration on the proposed “enhanced interrogation techniques” in 2002 and 2003 and that their attitude during the briefings was “quiet acquiescence, if not outright support.”

    So it is clear that high-ranking U.S. government officials did indeed violate U.S. and international law. Yet no indictments have been forthcoming. Why?

    President Obama has continued and even expanded upon these Bush policies yet no indictments have been forthcoming. Why?

    And why are the both of you so completely oblivious to the fact that such facilities also exist in Lithuania, Poland, Diego Garcia and a dozen or so other places? Never mind, I already know the answer... your television hasn't told you and it's Bush's fault right?
    [sleeping]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:02 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1125

    "can`t handle the truth"

    Ed, didn't question the truth.

    All this activity and nothing happened...

    Nothing changed. Same old show.

    Point: The pointlessness of this all.

    Try to stay with me.

    [smile]

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 5:45 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    No Walter I`ll stick to my V-8. Perhaps you can`t handle the truth, as everything I posted was verified. While your resting, explain exhaust, noise and wasted fuel, as a rule your correct in your assumptions, the boat sailed as you missed it on this one.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 5:40 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1533

    "Your calling my post vulgar, give me a break since all I posted was out of the media" Perhaps if you would site sources a person would know that. Not siting sources is plagiarism and rampant on this forum. Probably a sign that our schools are underfunded.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:14 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1125

    Correction: "maybe its time to go electric??"

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:05 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1125

    [thumbup]

    Enjoy!

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:04 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1125

    Vroooom... Vroooom...

    Lots of exhaust, noise and wasted fuel.

    Ed, maybe its time to electric??

    [wink]

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 4:42 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    Joanne: Your calling my post vulgar, give me a break since all I posted was out of the media and not made up by myself. I`m still a real nice guy.

    Now to the vulgar part, back in 1-1-2002 a reporter by the name of Daniel Pearl who worked for the Wall St. Journal was kidnapped by Al-Qaeda Militants and beheaded. Vulgar ??? Joanne re-read your second paragraph. Keep in mind the Rape or massacre of Nanking by the Japanese, you call that vulgar, I would and so would you, many Chinese babies died at the point of a Japanese bayonet.

    I am glad I don`t work the night shift at a convenience store, and so are you, could get very vulgar around 3 AM.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 4:34 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1515

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 4:31 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1515

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 4:31 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1515

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 4:29 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1515

    I apologize for the numerous errors in my post but I had to bang it out before my wife and I go out tonight.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:52 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1515

    It continuesto baffle my mind how punishment oriented we are. We declare our freedm in the "Declaration" and costituton and worry someone like Obama may take them away but fail to realize that when it says "all men" and "inalienable rigts" are not saying American people only it is the believe that everyone has or should have these rights. T say ah we decided arbitralily that some shouldn't have these rights so in willy nilly fashion lets just call them enemy combatants and we don't have to evn follow the Geva Conventions. What distorted twisted logic led us to this? What pecident does it set for our catured troops? Oh Gitmo is no worse than another prison. What do you base this on and in what prison did you do your research in? There are many people in Galt that don't like the noise of the trains through town even though the towns early existience was centere arund the trains. Now would these same people appreciated loud music,played at all hours while they endured underware on their heads? I don't have to do research on this. Would you like being uprooted from your home country dropped in a foreign land even if it is in a posh prison? I don't think we need to do research on this either. When many prisoners are there or were there based on false accusations by their own contry men (albiet hostile or victms of TORTURE) what makes you determine they are bad. And if they are bad were they hostile before capture or now because of their captivity.Iraq and Afganistan wars are a mess. The damage that has been done will go on for decades. And yes to all those conservatives that keep saying can't we quit talking about Bush? No because his legacy remains with us and the damages go beynd current generations. Its the reason talks between Isralis and Palestinians stalemate so much of the time because the first hurdles to get over are their litanies of atrocities they suffer by the other and then what apologies or reparations need to take place before substative talks can begin.

    This attempt to paint all middle eastern peoples or muslim specificly with a broad brush of machete wielding,suicide bombers, storm the embasy radical jihadists only displays ignorance of a people in the 1st degree. This is what allows you to say it is easy to lock them away and throw away the key despite what our founding principles proclaimed. Becareful if what you believe doesn't get mixed up in a tragic event and we all decide you are the problem and your rights can be waived like in Michigan.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:17 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1533

    "Heaven forbid that we must wait 'til 2016 to get rid of Obama" I think the American people elected President Obama for four years. By what means is Sonia suggesting we get rid of him?

    Suggesting that we should stoop to the level of Muslim jihadist is is a slap in the face to true Americans. Shame.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:14 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    If this is the best they can do they are in real trouble

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:12 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1515

    From the Wiki "Bagram is also the location of the Parwan Detention Facility, this detention facility was the last prison in Afghanistan under management of the US. It was HANDED BACK to the Afghan government on 25 March 2013."
    So lets get rid of Guantanimo Prison as well. What could you possibly offer against this idea?

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 2:09 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 548

    How about waterboarding a person 183 times? Is that "enhanced interrogation"? Because we (the royal we being the US government) used to call it "torture".

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:19 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    I do have to give Ms. Glick credit for acknowledging the Republican plan to have Obama run out of town on a rail over Benghazi and tarnishing Hilary Clinton's reputation so badly that she couldn't possibly run for president.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:12 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Sorry to see Ed reverting to his former self with these vulgar comments.

    We are supposed to be a civilized country and should be treating prisoners according to the Geneva conventions that we signed. No matter what method an enemy combatant uses to kill one of our own - the result is the same - they are dead, and calculating the treatment of prisoners based on HOW MUCH they want to kill us or how they do it has no place in the equation.

    Should we have treated Viet Cong prisoners inhumanely? After all, their use of booby traps that sliced and diced, eviscerated, blew men up into little tiny pieces leaving their body parts hanging from the trees was much more gruesome and messy than beheading - which they probably did also - not to mention the way they treated our prisoners of war.

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 12:23 pm on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    Joanne: If you call putting pink panties on the head of someone that would love to see you with your head separated from your body, or having a dog growl, or putting a killer on a dog leash,or a bunch of naked guys, yep that's enhanced interrogation, besides that`s an everyday occurrence in the Castro district of San Francisco and most would call it pleasure rather than pain.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:21 am on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I am always amused by the Sonia Glicks of the world. They are always braying about we need real Americans running our country and how important the Constitution is. The very next breath they say we need to hold people indefinitely without charges or a trial. The irony is delicious . Ms Glick and people like her have no conception of the meaning of being an American. They would be fare more comfortable in the Germany of the 1930's for they cannot understand the fundamental truth that if we want to have rights we have to make them universal.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:13 am on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:52 am on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    [thumbup]

    And just an FYI to Ms. Glick, the "Christian minister" to whom she makes reference is a former Muslim that converted to Christianity - something the Islamic THEOCRACY that governs Iran does not take kindly to. Apparently, those of the Christian faith in Iran that are not converts are not an issue for the government.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:47 am on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Afghans took control of Bagram in 2010. And most of the abuse and torture of prisoners took place under the auspices of the Bush Administration's policy of "enhanced interrogation."

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:13 am on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    President Pinnocchio wants to close Guantanamo but he tolerates the existence of Bagram in Afghanistan?
    [huh]

     
  • Lawrence Steinberg posted at 7:27 am on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Lawrence Steinberg Posts: 65

    There was an interesting bit on the radio the other day about this guy from the UK who spent 5 years in Guantanamo because the CIA had what they claimed was a picture of him at a militant training camp. Of course, the prisoner and (when they were eventually appointed, his lawyers) couldn't see the picture because it was "classified".

    Turns out that when the picture was finally shown to the military tribunal, it didn't look anything whatsoever like the prisoner. It costs a million dollars a year to keep a prisoner in Gitmo, so that was 5 million dollars of taxpayer money flushed down the toilet because of a mistake that could have been rectified in 5 minutes if they had even a semblance of due process.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 7:24 am on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Congratulations to Sonia Glick for her ability to blindly regurgitate information from her latest chain email.

     
  • Lawrence Steinberg posted at 7:22 am on Thu, May 9, 2013.

    Lawrence Steinberg Posts: 65

    Perhaps this should be our standard for everything. From now on, when health inspectors check out Lodi restaurants perhaps they should just make sure that they are cleaner than the a Taco wagon next to an open Tiajuana sewer.

     

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