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Terrorists shouldn't be protected

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Posted: Friday, May 1, 2009 10:00 pm

Torture. In past wars, there have be soldiers in different colored uniforms shooting at each other.

In some cases, each side would take prisoners who were placed in prison camps and were treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention - in most cases. But, when your enemies are dressed like the civilian population, they become terrorists and should not be afforded the protections of the Convention. In fact, after watching the Twin Towers come down - where some people jumped to avoid the smoke and flames, and the rest getting crushed to death - you don't even want to know what I would do to make those terrorists talk.

Walter White

Lodi

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Welcome to the discussion.

188 comments:

  • posted at 12:35 pm on Sun, May 10, 2009.

    Posts:

    Setting aside the morality or immorality of torture, we can ask is it effective?The Bush administration made it clear torture is effective, for because of information gleaned through torture were saved from [redacted] attacks that were planned against [redacted] by [redacted] and anyone who disputes this is a traitor.

     
  • posted at 7:48 am on Sun, May 10, 2009.

    Posts:

    Many Republicans on these blogs have tried to prove that they do not harbor racist sentiments by loudly declaring that they would happily support Colin Powell for President.With that in mind, I couldn't help but laugh when I saw that the self appointed head of the Republican Party has demanded that Powell remove himself from the GOP.Apparently, there is no room for a black man with his own mind in what is swiftly becoming a white Southern regional party.

     
  • posted at 4:49 am on Sun, May 10, 2009.

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    And he might also want to thank the ACLU for coming to Weiner's defense based on freedom of speech protection. So much for Brian to be thankful for on this story.

     
  • posted at 3:38 am on Sun, May 10, 2009.

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    I read an article about the Wee Wiener being barred from the UK.What Brian neglected to mention was the fact that 8 Muslim Radicals were also included on the list of shame.It seems to me that Brian should be congratulating the British for their even handed treatment which bars radical fomentors of hate, regardless of their religious or political stripes.

     
  • posted at 6:32 pm on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard wrote on May 9, 2009 11:59 AM:" Brian wrote on May 9, 2009 8:18 AM:Lodian, you seem to forget your vicious attacks on Real Facts. How many times did he try to uphold his Christian values and you would come along and try to shut him down. Brian, real facts slandered half the posters here, he stalked Lodian at her home, and he threatened other posters with physical violence.If that is your idea of a Christian, you are farther in the pit than I thought. "---------I think Brian is much farther down in that pit than any of us really know.

     
  • posted at 1:33 pm on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    I am curious Brian. How and from whom did you receive your education in religious matters?Were you confirmed there in Lodi or did you come to the Catholic Church later in life?

     
  • posted at 8:15 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian: It's Mother's Day tomorrow. Are you doing something nice for your child's mother this weekend? How about your mother?

     
  • posted at 7:50 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    Rhodie v2.0 wrote on May 9, 2009 10:32 AM:" Voter, as i said in an earlier post there is a growing number of priests, bishops and even Cardnials (the ones that the next Pope will be selected from) are now arguing for the Church's acception of condom useage to fight the AIDS epidemic.Hmmm... so we're not the only ones who disagree with Ratzinger's position. Its a shame that there isn't some way that he could be forced into retirement so that tens of thousands more innocent women and children won't have to die for his vanity and wrongheadedness.

     
  • posted at 7:43 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    The British, by the way, are subjects, not citizens. A subtle but meaningful reminder of the fact that the UK is a monarchy, not a republic.

     
  • posted at 7:06 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    Brian wrote on May 9, 2009 9:42 AM:I wonder if there is any way we could ban some British citizens from the United States. Can you really be this dim?The United States has a huge list of British subjects that are banned from entering the United States. It has maintained such a list for decades.

     
  • posted at 7:03 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    Brian wrote on May 9, 2009 8:35 AM:" Leonard wrote:The religious views that Brian has espoused on these blogs have, almost always, been in direct opposition to both the spirit and the word of the Gospels.-There's enough people who read these bloggsthat know I am contrary to this.Such as????I am guessing you might get Safeway to give you a pass (after all he gave tacit approval to your view that blacks are an inferior race).Other than Safeway, I am pretty sure that all of the conservatives on this blog have repudiated you at one time or another.

     
  • posted at 7:00 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    Brian wrote on May 9, 2009 8:30 AM: Frankly, I find your assessment of conservatism offensive.This from a man who makes free use of the n word.You will have to forgive me if I don't show much concern about what you think is offensive.

     
  • posted at 6:59 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    Brian wrote on May 9, 2009 8:18 AM:Lodian, you seem to forget your vicious attacks on Real Facts. How many times did he try to uphold his Christian values and you would come along and try to shut him down. Brian, real facts slandered half the posters here, he stalked Lodian at her home, and he threatened other posters with physical violence.If that is your idea of a Christian, you are farther in the pit than I thought.

     
  • posted at 5:32 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    Voter, as i said in an earlier post there is a growing number of priests, bishops and even Cardnials (the ones that the next Pope will be selected from) are now arguing for the Church's acception of condom useage to fight the AIDS epidemic. The current Pope is the most conservative in the group. I can;t remember his name but the guy that was almost Pope was from Africa and was for reevaluating the condom ban, I was really hoping he would be selected.Also do you know the arguement that the Pope has used for the continued ban on Condoms? Because in countries where condoms are used sexual inhibitions are much higher and the arguement was with more people having sex the more likely AIDS would be spread. I think the argument is weak but understand his perspective. (That is, the argument besides the "interferes with the creation of life" argument)I have to go for the day but have fun rebuking me;)

     
  • posted at 4:42 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    And with respect to Michael Savage:I wonder if there is any way we could ban some British citizens from the United States. My criteria would be just a shallow and unprincipled as Ms. Smith’s, based solely on my personal politics and taste. I would ban some British folks just because they are, as they say, wankers.Number one on my list would be Russell Brand, alleged actor and comedian who I find annoying just because he is sucking air that could be running through the engine block of my SUV. We could ban all people with a title, from the Queen on down to the Third Lord of Towchester. Anyone who thinks the birth canal they were squeezed out of gives them some sort of privilege in life are the kind of folks our forefathers came here to get away from.

     
  • posted at 4:31 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    I shudder to think what the military would have thought of Obama during WWII if he demanded the Kamakazzee pilots be treated with kid gloves in the event they survived. Times sure have changed.Showing weakness seems to be one of Obama's underlying characteristics.

     
  • posted at 4:25 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    Walter wrote:In fact, after watching the Twin Towers come down — where some people jumped to avoid the smoke and flames, and the rest getting crushed to death — you don't even want to know what I would do to make those terrorists talk.-Yep, I have a friend who had a music studio in Manhattan and was there on 911. He's told me much the same sentiments as Walter's.

     
  • posted at 4:20 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

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    Lodian wrote,What an odd thing to say. I've never insisted anyone stay on topic here, far from it!-No, not on this particular blogg yet. But you have on others many a time. Shall I remind you? And one of you posts here was a personal attack on me.Lodian wrote on May 8, 2009 5:27 PM:" Re: Brian...drunk... checkstupid...checkfat... is Brian fat? "-You always seem to want to attack the messenger when he or she produces hard facts about a given issue. I don't know why you also enjoy invalidating yourself on a regular basis.I choose to keep up tomspeed on current events. But you want to keep on talking about this drinking problem you think I have. Whatever turns your screws.

     
  • posted at 3:35 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard wrote:The religious views that Brian has espoused on these blogs have, almost always, been in direct opposition to both the spirit and the word of the Gospels. -There's enough people who read these bloggsthat know I am contrary to this. But you keep on advancing your untruths about me. I don't know why you enjoy invalidating yourself on a regualr basis.

     
  • posted at 3:30 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard wrote:In my experience, the term "conservatism" is usually code for "anti American" and/or "fascist".-Yes, I suppose in your liberal circle of friends this could be true. Frankly, I find your assessment of conservatismoffensive. Given this country's foundation is conservatism, as most normal people view conservatism, I can only conclude that you and your liberal circle of friends have this deep desireto chip away at it until it's gone. Lord Obama would be proud of you.

     
  • posted at 3:18 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodian wrote:Brian: You attack Christians all the time on these blogs. As Leonard said, "If people calling themselves Christians behave in a manner that is in opposition to Christ's teachings, I will certainly offer to show them the error of their ways." Leonard and I feel the need to uphold our Christian values.Lodian, you seem to forget your vicious attacks on Real Facts. How many times did he try to uphold his Christian values and you would come along and try to shut him down. Perhaps you're POV is different than his. Just as yours is different than mine. We've all digressed here at one time or another.So get off your soapbox. This is something you do on a regualr basis.Pot, kettle black seems fitting for you. And since you have been reluctant to comment on the Radical Islam that these terrorist want to advance. So how can you expect any of us here to believe you are concerned about this issue? You could at least state your position on torture. But you're too busy dragging me through the mud.

     
  • posted at 12:28 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    I pray for Brian.

     
  • posted at 12:26 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodian wrote on May 8, 2009 11:48 PM:Brian: You attack Christians all the time on these blogs.The religious views that Brian has espoused on these blogs have, almost always, been in direct opposition to both the spirit and the word of the Gospels. This Hometown Buffet approach to Jesus is, taken as a whole, almost a sort of anti Christianity.

     
  • posted at 12:23 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian wrote on May 8, 2009 9:59 PM:Are we also to rest assured you won't atttack conservatism when I call you on your attacks and your reply is "I'm an American"? In my experience, the term "conservatism" is usually code for "anti American" and/or "fascist".Your goose stepping tune was tired in 1933 and it is even more so in 2009.

     
  • posted at 12:21 am on Sat, May 9, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian wrote on May 8, 2009 9:59 PM:Ok, and now we can rest assured that you won't attack Christians you don't agree with given this formal announcement? If people calling themselves Christians behave in a manner that is in opposition to Christ's teachings, I will certainly offer to show them the error of their ways.Given what is at stake, to do otherwise would be the worst sort of cruelty.

     
  • posted at 6:48 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard wrote "Brian, I am a Christian." Brian wrote "Ok, and now we can rest assured that you won't attack Christians you don't agree with given this formal announcement?" Brian: You attack Christians all the time on these blogs.

     
  • posted at 6:46 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian wrote "Lodian is always insistent on people staying on the subject matter."What an odd thing to say. I've never insisted anyone stay on topic here, far from it! LOL! Poor Brian... are you making things up or is it the booze again? Both? Go sleep it off.

     
  • posted at 6:40 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian wrote "So fat, she can't reach around to wash herself..."I'm sorry to hear about your wife's condition, Brian.

     
  • posted at 5:19 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    The hypocrisy of this whole scenario is that the majority of Catholics in developed countries use birth control, and the church looks the other way as long as pews are filled and the money rolls in. And yet these same Catholics support the church as it sentences third world innocents to death for the same "sin".

     
  • posted at 4:59 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard wrote:Brian, I am a Christian. Ok, and now we can rest assured that you won't attack Christians you don't agree with given this formal announcement? Are we also to rest assured you won't atttack conservatism when I call you on your attacks and your reply is "I'm an American"?

     
  • posted at 4:57 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Rhodie v2.0 wrote on May 8, 2009 8:33 PM:"Here is another point where we differ. Why accept something that is wrong just because 'we're never going to change it'?"I agree with you on that point.I believe it is wrong to let millions of people suffer and die needlessly when a two cent piece of latex will prevent it. I refuse to accept that, even though it appears that the church will not change.

     
  • posted at 4:49 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Rhodie, the Pope LIED. He told Africans that by using condoms, they would worsen the AIDS epidemic. This is patently false. In African countries where the government has educated the public about condom use and made them readily available, the spread of the disease has been abated--investigate Uganda in particular. Millions of children have been left orphaned and homeless by this epidemic. Many have been victimized as well by the those who believe that sex with a child with cure the disease. Has the church no compassion whatsoever? And again, you agree with me that "at least some lives" are needlessly lost due to rigid fundamentalist dogma. How many deaths are too many? Is latex really that abhorrent that its usage is worse than the threat of death? The church has the power to stop these deaths, and yet the Pope chooses to LIE and risk more. This is a pattern with the Papacy. They made a deal with Hitler and Mussolini once, sealing the fate of millions of Jews. Pro-life?

     
  • posted at 4:27 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Rhodie v2.0 wrote on May 8, 2009 8:33 PM:Here is another point where we differ. Why accept something that is wrong just because 'we're never going to change it'?Simple. Because doing so will save the lives of hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent women and children.You can still get on your soap box and tell men that they will go to Hell if they commit adultery, just remind them that, if the commit adultery without a condom they will go to the Special Hell that is reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theater.

     
  • posted at 4:21 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian wrote on May 8, 2009 7:38 PM:I shouldn't have expected you or any of your cronies to want to discuss the threat of Radical Islam. So, continue with your witch hunt on Christians.Brian, I am a Christian.

     
  • posted at 3:33 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    First: You are right, this is a "both" situation. It is a cause and cause situation running parallel and jointly pushing the epidemic worse.Second:"Centuries upon centuries of human experience tell us that no religious institution is going to put an end to adultery so why not deal with the world as it is and save some lives by at least promoting the use of condoms?"Here is another point where we differ. Why accept something that is wrong just because 'we're never going to change it'? Personally, if someone is always fat should they just accept it and not fight to change? Socially why would it be any differant? Just to demonstrate the paradox I am, I love the traditional aspects of my Church but think nothing should be accepted just because it always has been or because we won't be able to change it anyway. Fighting for the impossible change is a true test of character. I even respect those who fight for changes I disagree with because they are at least unwavering in their convictions.

     
  • posted at 2:50 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Re: Lodian...1 So fat, she can't reach around to wash herself... Check2 Incoherent... Check3 Shows desperation for validation in every post... CheckDoe she eat a lot of Dolly Madison and Hostess products?... See 1

     
  • posted at 2:38 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard,I shouldn't have expected you or any of your cronies to want to discuss the threat of Radical Islam. So, continue with your witch hunt on Christians.Lodian is always insistent on people staying on the subject matter. But in this instance, she wants to remove herself far from the reality of this subject she is more than happy to talk about something else.

     
  • posted at 2:04 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

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    Rhodie v2.0 wrote on May 8, 2009 6:16 PM:You want to blame the Church for the continuing spread of AIDS. I place the responsibility for the continuing spread on the spouses who cheat on their mate, the individual who looks for new "conquests", and even the sexual preditors.It seems to me that this is not an either/or but rather a both situation.If the men weren't sleeping around, the women wouldn't get AIDS. If the men wore condoms, the women wouldn't get AIDS.Centuries upon centuries of human experience tell us that no religious institution is going to put an end to adultery so why not deal with the world as it is and save some lives by at least promoting the use of condoms?

     
  • posted at 1:16 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

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    " So you agree with me that fundamentalist Catholic dogma is killing people needlessly?"This is probably a good example on why the two of us will probably find very little common ground on many issues, Voter.You want to blame the Church for the continuing spread of AIDS. I place the responsibility for the continuing spread on the spouses who cheat on their mate, the individual who looks for new "conquests", and even the sexual preditors. these people are continuing to behave in a way that poses significant risks.I do not blame the "victims" of those listed above. The spouse may not know that the other is sleeping around, thus unaware that sex with their spouse could be a death penalty.Blaming the Church for the reckless actions of individuals is like blaming a highway because a speeder wrecked. I will grant you that there are some hazzardous turns on my metaphoric highway in that the Church's lieniency on condom useage in high AIDS areas could save some lives. But the majority of the responsibility lay with the individual to behave with the seriousness this horrid epidemic deserves.

     
  • posted at 12:27 pm on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Re: Brian...drunk... checkstupid...checkfat... is Brian fat?

     
  • posted at 7:20 am on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian wrote on May 8, 2009 7:54 AM:" VOTER, HERE'S SOME MORE OF YOUR SO-CALLED RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA.Yup, that's what it is.Zero point two... Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.Words to live by!

     
  • posted at 3:20 am on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://asdfg.sulekha.com/blog/post/2009/02/author-reveals-islam-s-20-year-plan-for-u-s-a.htmAuthor reveals Islam's 20-year plan for U.S.AA clip:Remove America's freedom of speech by replacing it with state wide and nation wide hate speech laws. Nominated Muslim sympathizers to political office to obtain favourable legislation to Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.

     
  • posted at 3:14 am on Fri, May 8, 2009.

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    And we should also not expect the Muslim Brotherhood to call for a cease of the broadcasts in the Middle East calling for a worldwide Jihad against all infidels.

     
  • posted at 3:09 am on Fri, May 8, 2009.

    Posts:

    Of course we can't expect the Muslim Brotherood to reciprocate and apologize for calling all non-Muslims infidels. So they'll continue to insist that Mohammad did not call for all non-Muslims to be converted by the sword.http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/05/20095812103948142.htmlPope expresses 'respect' for IslamBut Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood has criticised the pope's visit following a controversial papal speech in 2006.The pontiff angered many Muslims when he quoted a medieval text that characterised some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad as "evil and inhuman".The pope later said he was "deeply sorry" for the reaction his speech caused, and explained that the text did not reflect his own opinions.The Brotherhood has called for an apology to the world's Muslims, saying the pope's statement of regret was "insufficient".Jordan's opposition Islamic Action Front party has also called on the pope to apologise for the speech, which they said targeted Islam.

     
  • posted at 2:54 am on Fri, May 8, 2009.

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    VOTER, HERE'S SOME MORE OF YOUR SO-CALLED RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1842687/postsRADICAL ISLAM COMES TO FULL BLOOM IN SOUTHERN VIRGINIAThe Islamic practice of taqiyya, meaning “deception” or “concealment,” has been refined into an art-form at a jihad training compound for African American converts near the small town of Red House in Charlotte County, Virginia. The fifty-acre compound is easy to find since the main road leading to it has been named Sheikh Gilani Lane in honor of the guru and founder of a terrorist organization with close ties to Osama bin Laden. The Board of Supervisors of Charlotte Country are either oblivious to the threat of radical Islam on American soil or clandestine advocates of the great jihad. At the end Sheikh Gilani Lane is a sign - - barely visible through the overgrown brush - - that reads, “The Muslims of the Americas.” The sign serves to make the place appear as an innocuous religious settlement, until one realizes that The Muslims of the Americas is, in reality, an outgrowth of Jamaat ul-Fuqra, an alleged sister agency to al-Qaeda.

     
  • posted at 2:48 am on Fri, May 8, 2009.

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    OF COURSE VOTER WILL DISMISS THIS AS RIGHT WING PROPAGANDAhttp://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52054Most Americans were oblivious to Islam until a certain Tuesday morning five years ago. But on Sept. 11, 2001, they woke up to learn they were in the midst of a world war, targeted for destruction by an enemy they had scarcely ever heard of. Today, militant Muslims are on the rampage worldwide, some recently calling for the assassination of the pope, with others threatening that unless Benedict XVI converts to Islam, Christian churches will be burnt to the ground. But such outrageous threats, as well as the mass murder that often follows, have become commonplace. On the slightest provocation – a newspaper publishing cartoons depicting Muhammad, a journalist making a comment about Muhammad during the Miss Universe pageant – angry Muslims erupt into a campaign of arson, brutality and murder.

     
  • posted at 2:41 am on Fri, May 8, 2009.

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    I see this blogg has turned into a witch hunt on Christians. Now if we could get back on track and discuss the real issue of Radical Islam. No one iws denying that fundamentalist groups can be dangerous. But, is there another religon where 10 percent of it's population believe in Jihad? Of course voter may be the first one to produce some evidence that Christians are on the verge Jihad just to keep his conspiracy going.

     
  • posted at 4:20 pm on Thu, May 7, 2009.

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    So you agree with me that fundamentalist Catholic dogma is killing people needlessly?And curiously, you believe that contraception should only be used when there are health issues???? The world would be a better place if every family was like the Duggars (18 or 19 kids last I heard)? Wow. Hope you have a big house.

     
  • posted at 3:24 pm on Thu, May 7, 2009.

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    Also, I did not say the Catholic church does doesn't change, I said it is "resisting the forces of societies changing whims." Cases in point, Abortion, random sex outside of marriage, affairs, increasing casual disregard for the family unit, increasing acceptance of drug use, acceptancce of vices such as gambling, drinking, porn and such.As with any large organizations it takes time to change theperception. Most bishops and priests are now pushing for a reexamination of condom use but solely as a means to fight the health risks that exist in the world today. But the Churchs teaching that fidelity in marriage and chasity outside would do more to curb AIDS than any other effort. I also recognize that, especially in poorer nations, women do not always have the choice of when and who they have sex with. But these "men" are also not likely to use condoms to begin with.And for the record I agree with the younger cardinals who are calling for a easing of the contraception ban WHEN it relates to health issues.

     
  • posted at 3:02 pm on Thu, May 7, 2009.

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    Yes Voter, Popes were married. Priests were too. That changed 900 years ago (from http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_are_Catholic_priests_not_allowed_to_marry""The First Lateran Council of 1123 stated that priests, deacons, subdeacons, and monks were absolutely forbidden to have concubines, contract marriage or even remain married. At that time, the reason was to ensure that money remained with the Church and was not inherited. The prohibition has continued, because it is seen to allow priests to involve themselves fully in the affairs of the Church, without worldly distractions. An exception is now made for Protestant ministers who convert to Catholicism. If they were already married, they are allowed to remain married."Contrary to your statements about the Pope's whims, it takes councils to make major changes in the church doctrine. To date there have been 21 councils in 2000 years of history.As for Pope Innocent IV, he and several of his predessors were the reason for the schism that split the church, a cation I believe was for the overal good of the church and christianity since it allowed people to choose a faith expression that fit their personal style and the Church was forced to withdraw from direct political office.

     
  • posted at 11:44 am on Thu, May 7, 2009.

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    And Rhodie, as for the Catholic Church not changing its teachings, that is pure fantasy. Pope Innocent condoned torture. Popes once married. Unbaptised babies once went to purgatory. Meat was not eaten on Friday. The Earth was flat. God created the world in seven 24 hour days. Pacts with Hitler and Mussolini were ordained by God. The dogma changes at the whim of the Pope.

     
  • posted at 10:53 am on Thu, May 7, 2009.

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    Rhodie, your excuses for fundamentalism are silly. Fundamentalism is dangerous and you brush this off with a frivolous comment about affairs and feeling good. The Pope recently told Africans that condom use would make the African AIDS crisis worse. This comment was cruel, a proven lie, and inhumane. Countries which have pushed condom use (such as Uganda) have drastically reduced AIDS cases and saved thousands of lives. Fundamentalism kills people every day--and not always with a gun or a bomb.

     
  • posted at 3:59 am on Thu, May 7, 2009.

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    Rhodie wrote "I have a hard time being quiet."No way!!! ;-)

     
  • posted at 3:07 am on Thu, May 7, 2009.

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    "You seem to be an exception, Rhodie. Cogito even thinks that his church might support it."First, I tend to be an exception to a lot of thngs;) But I also think that there are a lot of Fundamentalist who are oppose to torture, they are just quiet about it. I have a hard time being quiet.Second, I believe Cogito has said he is Catholic (I may be wrong here). If so then his church teaches torture is wrong (as posted way down by me). It teaches that all life is precious and deserves to be treated with respect.But just because a church teaches something doesn't mean everyone in the church follows it. Some make concious decisions to reject church teachings. I'll just leave it at that.

     
  • posted at 3:02 am on Thu, May 7, 2009.

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    Let's take one teaching; Having an affair. A lot of people have affairs. It is portrayed on tv as normal (though stressful), I've met people who think it is acceptable. So it is becoming more and more a socially accaptable thing. Should churches who teach against adultery change their message so the cheater feels "love, compassion and caring"?And this may be one of those time where we are using the same words to say different things. Love, compassion and caring should be shown to everyone whether they are a part of your church or the epitomy of what you think is evil. But condoning behavior and accepting a behavior you think is wrong should not be forced by social pressures. And churches should not be adapting their messages to achieve a better public image, which is what I think the author is arguing for.

     
  • posted at 2:54 am on Thu, May 7, 2009.

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    "love, compassion and caring, and conformity to doctrine, will almost invariably choose the latter"Voter:How much compromise should a church make so people feel good about themselves? This is how I read the authors comments; That a good church will comform to social pressures, bending to the current thiinking in an effort to make people feel good about themselves. I have a problem with this. While there are some areas that can be current, music, presentations and outreaches, the message should not change so people feel better about themselves. If it is against the churches teachings then it is against the churches teachings. The whims of society should not change the teachings. This is one reason I like the Catholic church, while the music, presentations and outreaches are adapting to the times, the message is the same around the world resisting the forces of societies changing whims.Cont.

     
  • posted at 12:44 pm on Wed, May 6, 2009.

    Posts:

    dyan wrote on May 6, 2009 1:54 PM:" Let's say I am offended. Liberals aren't supposed to offend people, right? "dyan: I don't know. Why don't you tell us what liberals think.

     
  • posted at 10:56 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

    Posts:

    Read back through the comments. Lots of fundamentalists believe torture is acceptable. You seem to be an exception, Rhodie. Cogito even thinks that his church might support it. You don't see any level of danger in this type of thinking? Fundamentalism is always dangerous.

     
  • posted at 10:52 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    Rhodie, I have done much, much reading about world religions. I think you missed the author's main point. Fundamentalism "is a religion, any religion, that when confronted with a conflict between love, compassion and caring, and conformity to doctrine, will almost invariably choose the latter regardless of the effect it has on its followers or on the society of which it is a part." I believe that to be dangerous in every regard.

     
  • posted at 10:20 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    AHHhhhhh, The self righteous, oh how you love to point fingers and ridicule the Christianswhich by the way is your Prerogative…That being said there is no comparison betweenradical Islam and any Christian group here in America. There are a large number of activecells here in America the most are in Dearborn Michigan… There are active cells in California and some Mosque are teaching Jihad against the United States of Monsters as they refer to America.. I doubt you would have to look to hard to find something of the likenear Lodi…al Qaeda has been reborn in Pakistan and is alive and well again and strongerthan ever…

     
  • posted at 8:54 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    Let's say I am offended. Liberals aren't supposed to offend people, right?

     
  • posted at 8:35 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    I have the hiccups. :-)

     
  • posted at 8:34 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    It sounds like dyan is offended. Maybe she went to Becky Fischer's "Jesus Camp".

     
  • posted at 8:33 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

    Posts:

    It sounds like dyan is offended. Maybe she went Becky Fischer's "Jesus Camp".

     
  • posted at 7:02 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

    Posts:

    It's good we don't have any fascist "nut jobs" on the looney left.

     
  • posted at 6:28 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    Talking about fundamentalist nut-jobs in this country... have you seen Jesus Camp? Just check Youtube for "Jesus Camp" and/or Becky Fischer.

     
  • posted at 6:18 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    Brian, it may not be as wide spread as in Islamic circles but there are fanatic groups in Christian cultures. Abortion clinic bombings, white Supremists, and even those misguided souls who use twisted religious logic to justify killing homosexuals, blacks and jews. While I agree there is not a viable movement is Christian circles to fly planes into buildings, there are those who are just as deplorable in their violent actions claiming biblical justification.

     
  • posted at 6:05 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    Voter, have you read some of his other essays?http://www.bidstrup.com/exile.htmWhile he maskes some good points about Fundamentalism, he does have an obvious bias against doctrinal studies. It mainly comes across that he believes that one should compromise ones principles for the sake of getting along.At http://www.bidstrup.com/virus.htm he goes so far as to call the ideas in the Bible a "meme" which he defines as "A meme is an idea that behaves in society like a virus does in a body." So contrary to your ascertations that he is "a very sincere Christian" his own words reveal he is not a Christian at all. Unless of course he has come to know who Jesus is through means untouched by biblical influences.I will modify my orriginal statement though. It is Fanaticism (very strict standards and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions) that causes problems, not Fundimentalism (strict adherence to a set of basic principles). Granted all Fanatics would be fundamentalists, not all fundamentalists are fanatics.

     
  • posted at 5:34 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    I say give into them now. If you've read the latest birth rates, Muslums8.1 per family. Westerners 1.3. In twenty years ,they will control Europe.They are focused on world domination while we are focused on gay marriage.Gee. I wonder whose going to win that one?

     
  • posted at 3:24 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    Let's help voter along and remind him that Christians once believed in jihad centuries ago. Of course voter will run with this and come up with some false facts that Christians are on the verge of reliving their past to advance his notion that Christian Fundamentalism is as dangerous as Islamic Fundamentalism.

     
  • posted at 3:19 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    Voter,Are you also going to tell us that 100 million Muslims don't believe in Jihad and we should be much more concered about Fundamentalist Christians like Pat Robertson?

     
  • posted at 3:12 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    Voter, you are quite ignorant of Radical Islam. There is no comparisonwith White Supremecy and Radical Islam.Do us all a favor and read Robert Spencer's book "Stealth Jihad". And I don't know who's blowing smoke up your a$$, but Christian Fundamentalism is not and has not been anything close to Islamic Fundamentalism for centuries. Please get up to speed on things. There are many Muslims here in America and abroad who want an Islamic Refirmation. Now, why on Earth would they want a refirmation other than what Spencer and others have been writing about? I'm quite confident that Spencer and Gabrielle no a lot more about Islam than you.

     
  • posted at 1:53 am on Wed, May 6, 2009.

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    Rhodie, I apologize for the length in advance, but here is an essay written by a very sincere Christian describing why fundamentalism in any form is not just wrong, but dangerous. Due to the length, you may want to scroll down to various subheadings that are of particular interest.http://www.bidstrup.com/religion.htm

     
  • posted at 7:08 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    "Fundamentalism of any flavor is dangerous."I would say extremism is dangerous in any flavor. True fundamentalism in Christian terms would be a life more like the Quakers, extremism would be the white supremists.Sidenote: Do these White supremists not understand basic genetic logic? Jesus was born in Isreal, a Jew most likely with dark skin. Meanwhile the "whites" of the day were the ones trying to kill him (rome) or little more than waring tribes in Europe. In all likelyhood, this supreme race they claim to be choosen of God with didn't even know who God was until well after the 300A.D. when the Church (still of mediteranian descent) started spreading the word to the "savages" in the north. The only people who can claim to be the choosen of God are those who can trace thier liniage back to the isrealites who marched out of Egypt. Not too many white folks can do that!

     
  • posted at 6:59 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Voter, those who use "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." as an excuss for warfare ignore the earlier passages in the same section.17"Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles."The sword brought is the brought against Christians. Not so much literally anymore but in the early days to be Christian meant a life ended by the sword. "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Is simply a warning that a life following Jesus is going to be filled with strife; From those who either hate or even condemn Christians as terrorists do or, more metaphysically, spiritual attacks from the enemy in efforts to sway us. Too many Christians today think following Jesus means peace, but He is as much about the Sword to day as he was 2000 years ago. We may not be put to death nowadays, but our faith is tested by society on a continual basis.

     
  • posted at 4:35 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Rhodie, how do you interpret Matthew 10:34 about Jesus claiming not to bring peace, but a sword? Just curious. It's been interpreted many ways--seems to give the warmonger types a foothold.

     
  • posted at 4:32 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Brian, do you even read those articles? Jews are also allowed their own tribunals in Britain. The article you posted ridicules sensational reporting about Sharia Law. There have been no problems. Generally, only civil matters are handled by the Sharia courts.

     
  • posted at 4:27 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Gator, open your eyes. Yes, radical Muslims do horrible things to other human beings, but there are folks in this country ("good" Christians and Jews) who believe the same thing. Think about the crimes committed by white supremacists. And there is plenty of justification for just about any atrocity imaginable in the Bible for these freaks to use in defense. Stoning to death is commanded for a number of offenses. You must have heard of Fred Phelps. Right now, there are more radical Muslims than radical Christians and Jews, but the mindset is the same. Fundamentalism of any flavor is dangerous.

     
  • posted at 4:19 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    "fundamentalists don't fear death."I think it is a person to person thing but, yes, for the most part Christians of strong faith do not fear death. Some more fundimentalist do see it as a joyful transition. I can't speak for other Fundimentalists but I see death as a home-coming of sorts. A transition from this state of being into a non-temporal state of being with the one who made me and whom I strive to serve.But contrary to fundimental Islamic teachings Christin teachings are that it is immoral or an afront to God to end your life or anothers before your natural time (hence the Catholic teachings against abortion and death penalty). In fact the strongest teachings in the Bible on death are: 1) That dying because of persecution of your faith is honorable- that is dying because you refused to deny God. 2) Dying to save another, that is sacraficing your life so another might live-this is the jumping on the granade thing. Nowhere after Jesus does it say "kill in God's name". What it says is to LIVE in God's name, a big difference many have ignored.

     
  • posted at 4:04 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7232661.stmSharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

     
  • posted at 3:39 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Jihad (in Arabic, "struggle") is a central duty of every Muslim. Modern Muslim theologians have spoken of many things as jihads: the struggle within the soul, defending the faith from critics, supporting its growth and defense financially, even migrating to non-Muslim lands for the purpose of spreading Islam. But violent jihad is a constant of Islamic history. Many passages of the Qur'an and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad are used by jihad warriors today to justify their actions and gain new recruits. No major Muslim group has ever repudiated the doctrines of armed jihad.

     
  • posted at 3:35 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Gator wrote on May 5, 2009 8:28 PM:" Voter, give me a break you haven’t a clue as to how these people are.Yes Gator, And he probably wouldn't even pick up a book by Robert Spencer or Brigette Gabriel to find out the truth about Radical Islam. He'll just keep on insisting that his contacts in England have a better perspective than these two experts.

     
  • posted at 3:30 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Sounds like a good idea Leonard. Can you and your cronies get un-PC'd long enough to join with me and others who would love to see terrorists hung from the rafters? Or is that too much to ask?Indeed, as Robb said, "there are some who do not deserve to even breath my air.. "

     
  • posted at 3:28 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Voter, give me a break you haven’t a clue as to how these people are !! They have one goal in mind, the entire world Islamic and under Sharia Law. The number 2 man in al Qaeda Dr.Ayman al Zawahiri has said Convert to Islam or die. Cruel and sadistic are tame words tothose people. We abhor the killing of women and children, they have no problem with it. When they find Homosexuals they hang them, they use a crane and do 5 at one time, theylift them slowly off the ground so it takes a long time to die. They behead young girls forgoing to school.. If a women is raped she is stoned to death, no mater what they believe itwas her fault…This is what we have to deal with. Your Christian fundamentalist are likePreschoolers compared to these folks…

     
  • posted at 1:28 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    There is a word for people who torture infants and children."War CriminalAt Nurmeberg, the United States and its allies hung them by the dozens.

     
  • posted at 1:22 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Thanks for clearing up the rapture specifics, Rhodie. But don't fundamentalists still anticipate death with joy? After all, they get to be in paradise with their savior. That sounds like something to get excited about, not fear. I still stand by my contention that as a whole, fundamentalists don't fear death.

     
  • posted at 1:12 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    "Fundamentalist Christians can't wait for the rapture and look forward to death"Point of clarification, Voter, The way I am reading this is that at the time of rapture Fundamentalist Christians think they will die. From my understanding of Rapture there is not the mass death of Christians. They are taken up, body and soul, to heaven. A difficult concept and besides the point to this comversation I just wanted to clarify if indeed you were linking to two events. Rapture does not equal death, unless you happen to be in the plane the Christian is captaining;)

     
  • posted at 12:51 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    4AStrongLodi:"human" rights as you call them are ONLY reserved for people who relish life, there are some who do not deserve to even breath my air..

     
  • posted at 12:29 pm on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Of course doesnt see the difference in these statements. I'm not surprised.Direct family members of terrorists are far from innocent.Brian wrote on May 5, 2009 8:24 AM:" Billy,I might not have a problem with the family of terrorists hearing the screamsof their terrorist family member. Since they don't seem to have a problem receiving money from Hamas or some other terror group in exchange for the death of their family member, I have contempt for them too. Lodian wrote on May 5, 2009 11:09 AM:" Billy: I guess Brian answered your question and the answer is... Yes, he would be okay with innocent family members (moms sons daughters etc) being tortured in an attempt that their screams would result in intel. I wonder if it is also okay with his wife and child being tortured too. Hypocrite? "

     
  • posted at 10:28 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Gator, all religious fanatics are dangerous. And you are incorrect that Westerners are all afraid to die. Fundamentalist Christians can't wait for the rapture and look forward to death--that's part of the dogma. The views expressed by Brian, Jerome, Cogito, and others who support torture are no different than the fanatics they hate--both groups find ways to rationalize atrocity and unspeakable cruelty. It's the "us vs. them" mentality of fundamentalism that promotes this.

     
  • posted at 9:45 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Walter - You're an idiot, so I'll cut you a break.Violating human rights are not acceptable in any case. The fallout of violating them is that others may decided to violate them against our own people because we have "validated" them by using them for what we deem wrong.

     
  • posted at 8:05 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Westerners can not comprehend the hatred the radical Muslims have for the western world, all of it not Just America…Do not confuse the moderates with the radicals asthey are worlds apart… Having a brother-in-law from Islamabad gives me a uniquelook into that world… Like he said Westerners are totally afraid to die al Qaeda andthe Taliban relish it, there is nothing we can do to scare them, nothing!! If you hurta family member and they get their hands on you, it will take days for you to die, thinkof being skinned alive…Look at it this way their ideology is stopped dead in time around200 years BC… You can be sweet to them or threaten them it makes little difference, theywill bide their time till they get a chance to kill you in the most horrible way…That is afact of life…

     
  • posted at 7:39 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    No, Lodian, Brian did not answer the question - he deflected as I knew he would and attacked me instead. Ever since he claimed to be a Navy Seal he's been on this fake chicken-hawk jag and he can't break himself of it.Brian, as you're sitting in front of a broken clock, is there any way you can muster enough bravery to state what you imply but avoid saying?How about big, bad talkin' Jerome? C'mon, Jerry, the torture always works, right? They'll tell you the truth, right? How come you are so quiet? Tea bag in your mouth?Come on, you guys with the rolled-up socks stuffed for effect, let's hear it. If torture works are you willing to see the United States torture innocent people to force terror suspects (I've always said "suspects") to talk?Brian?Kinderman?

     
  • posted at 6:25 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Lodian:(And remember I already said I was against torture since it only encourages more violence)I *think* Brian's point is that if the family is taking money from the terror networks for the teroorist bombings then they are NOT innocent and may well have information to give since they are recieving money for their family members actions.This is like the wife of a drug dealer. She's providing the means and capabilities of his actions, recieving money and benifits for her support so is she innocent in the situation? I don't think so. But aside from aiding and abetting, there is little persecution of family members.I don't think one person should be persecuted for anothers actions, but the whole aidinf and abetting aspect to the family support of these attackers does warrent some kind of non-violent response. I lean twords financial responses, siezure of bank accounts and property would be a start, if there is any way to do it. A lot of men would be less likely to blow themselves up if ti meant their family would be on the streets. It's not perfect but no solution will be.

     
  • posted at 6:03 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Billy Rubin (6:53 AM): Good points and questions.

     
  • posted at 3:24 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Billy,I might not have a problem with the family of terrorists hearing the screamsof their terrorist family member. Since they don't seem to have a problem receiving money from Hamas or some other terror group in exchange for the death of their family member, I have contempt for them too.

     
  • posted at 3:17 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    I'm sure Billy would have been right there to protest God closing the Red Sea on the soldiers after he parted it for Moses. Of course Billy doesn't believe that in order to advance goodness, one may have to do the unthinkable at times.

     
  • posted at 3:11 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Billy Rubin's grandstanding and ridiculous assumptions does more to invalidate him than anything else.At least he stays consistent.

     
  • posted at 2:51 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    Gator: Who’s that CNN dude? Well Daniela you tell me as I have never watched CNN!!As for water boarding all Spec-Ops military go though training on how to defeat it, inother words how to survive it…That’s what I’ve been told by my neighbor who is aNavy Seal, but if you feel like it, you can tell him he’s full of it, I’m sure he would take itWith a grin…

     
  • posted at 1:53 am on Tue, May 5, 2009.

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    I don't understand why the brave Christian chest beaters here can't bring themselves to answer Ivan's question.If torture works, then Jerom Kinderman and Brian and their ilk would readily agree to torturing anyone, even innocent family members - children, mothers, wives - of suspects while the suspect looks on to see and hear the screaming until someone talks.Right?That is what Saddam did and it worked and, since Brian says the United States of America must become more evil than the terrorists, we must do this, right?This is far too important a point to let go with some deflection by Brian and Jerome.Are you prepared to see the US enter into torturing innocents to force suspects to talk?

     
  • posted at 4:23 pm on Mon, May 4, 2009.

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    Gator: Who's that CNN dude? He reported that one of our most physically fit military service members voluntarily agreed to be waterboarded, and he is one of the only living survivors who is also friendly with the UNITED STATES to testify on the experience.After his testimony, nobody else wants to step up and volunteer to see how much fun it is, and according to him, waterboarding is torture.

     
  • posted at 1:55 pm on Mon, May 4, 2009.

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    One of the benefits of torture, is that it really doesn't matter if you get information or not..

     
  • posted at 12:49 pm on Mon, May 4, 2009.

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    The beat goes on, what defines torture?? For me it comes down to the infliction of physical pain, dismemberment, removal of eyes, tongue and the use of hot irons to burn or blind along with the removal of sexual organs.. The afore mentioned are all used by al Qaeda and the Taliban!! I don’t agree with that kind of interrogation but I have no problem with waterboarding, fear and intimidation and drugs. To use any of those on the run of the mill fighter is a waste of time as they are well trained on how to deal with our interrogation and will give nothing. Abu Ghraib was a total embarrassment and should have never happened…Someday the US will learn how to fight a counterinsurgency war it’s done by helping the civilian population and giving them what they need to live!! Then they will turn on al Qaeda and the Taliban…

     
  • posted at 5:58 am on Mon, May 4, 2009.

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    Leonard wrote on May 3, 2009 5:51 PM:" dogs4you wrote on May 3, 2009 12:38 PM:I would have given him any and all the information I had to give, how about you?I would tell them whatever I thought they wanted to hear, regardless of the truth, and that is the big problem with torture.Leonard: You make a very good point here.

     
  • posted at 3:39 am on Mon, May 4, 2009.

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    Brian wrote on May 4, 2009 8:08 AM:" Leonard, Obviously you don't see my point. Nope.

     
  • posted at 3:36 am on Mon, May 4, 2009.

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    Leonard,If we have to become more evil than Al Qaeda in order to defeat them, the other coutries will rally around us.But, ultimatley it will be that we have taken matters into our own hands. You seem to have forgotten the two cities we nuked in Japan to end WWII. That was very evil. We had to become more evil than the Japanese in order to defeat them. I doubt there were many countries that were aware of our plans to nuke. And as with today, I think we do have plans to deal with Al Qaeda in our own little way. Only a few people will know these plans.

     
  • posted at 3:08 am on Mon, May 4, 2009.

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    Leonard, Obviously you don't see my point.

     
  • posted at 12:31 am on Mon, May 4, 2009.

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    Brian wrote on May 3, 2009 8:32 PM: the only way to defeat evil is to be more evil than the evil doers. As long as their are those that aren't willing to be more evil and barbaric than the terrorist, we will never defeat them. What an astounding statement. If we become more evil than Al Queda, who on Earth will support us or offer us aid?Indeed, if we become MORE evil than Osama Bin Laden, the other nations of the world will band together to oppose us.The Nazis and the Soviets were clearly the most evil states of the 20th century but, ultimately, their evil only served to rally their enemies and thus bring on their ultimate defeat.

     
  • posted at 5:54 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Voter, As I've said before, I'm not one of your pupils you can indoctrinate.

     
  • posted at 5:50 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Voter, perhaps you should read the book by Jean Sasson "Princess, Life Behind The Veil In Saudi Arabia". Or have your contacts instructed you to not read this book because it is RW propaganda?Have they also told you to not listen to people who know the Sauds who fund many of the mosques here are also funding many of the terrorists training camps here. I'm anxious to know the BS they feed you.

     
  • posted at 5:41 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    So Leonard, Are you to say that Jesus would never want us to confront evil with evil? Are you implying that since Jesus was a pacifist on many occasions, us followers should follow suit? You know the Islamic Radicals are just eating this stuff up. That's why they want people like you to come up with excuses to not torture them. And the sad thing is, their psychological warfare is working on you and you don't even realize it.

     
  • posted at 5:32 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Ok Voter, You're POV is Sharia Law is not paralyzing England. Since I am not ignorant of Sharia Law and I may have overstated things, perhaps you can give us your take on what Sharia Law is doing to England, since you seem to think YOUR contacts in England know more about this issue than mine? Have they told you about the teachers in public schools that have been ridiculedbecause they are concerned about the safety of the girls who are told that Sharia Law dictates that they keep a Bhurka on at all times? How do you identify someone who wears a Bhurkawhere only the eyes show? Do you even know that women in Saudi Arabia are not gien a birth cert. or a death cert? How about they are buried in unmarked graves? Do your contacts tell you this is a pile of malarkey too?

     
  • posted at 5:25 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Brian wrote on May 3, 2009 8:32 PM:-I don't see anything wrong with an eye for an eye.Jesus Christ said: Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:39 BUT I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

     
  • posted at 4:30 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Brian, you're pathetically ignorant. I read BBC news everyday, have at least weekly contact with British citizens, have been to the country, etc. The country is not "paralyzed" by Sharia law.

     
  • posted at 4:29 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Voter, Whether you believe it or not. I do talk to people who live in The Phx area part time when they are not in England. How much more stupid do you want me to make you look? There are numerous stories about What Sharia Law is doing to England. Not that you care.As long as it's not happening over here, even though there are as many as 30 terrorist training camps here and Mosques that preach Jihad, there's no cause for Alarm, huh Voter?

     
  • posted at 4:21 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Voter, the majority of the news reporting about Sharia Law in England comes from Reuters, BBC, and other far left, liberal, tightly controlled by the government media sources in England. Now, you tell me that those liberal establishments don't have the foggiest what is going on in England? Boy, you're reaching. I've caught you in a lie and you can't even admit you're wrong.

     
  • posted at 4:13 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    voter wrote on May 3, 2009 9:03 PM:" Brian, have you ever been to England? In regular personal or business contact with any British citizens? You have no idea how ridiculous your statements sound to the rest of us. Please do some research. REad some BBC articles on the topic at the very least. "-Like I said, You are unaware of how Sharia Law has paralysed England. Your ignorance of Sharia Law is annoying. One does not have to visit England to know what's going on there. But being the good liberal you are, you want to end the conversation by attempting to invalidate what I am saying. It only invalidates you, in the long run.

     
  • posted at 4:03 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Voter - you're assuming that your definition of "torture" is the same as mine. It clearly is not. Frankly, I don't have a clue how Jesus would deal with terrorists, except that unless they repent of their evil ways and accept Him as their Lord and Savior, they will never get the chance to talk with Him about any of this. Me? Once I'm in His presence I doubt that I would take too much of His time with such things.However, I am confident that God (Jesus) expects us to defend ourselves. The "rendering unto Caesar" provision in the Bible isn't just about taxes; it requires us to take on our responsibilities in a world of non-believers. This means accepting a weapon to fight against tyranny and evil. Your incessant questioning only serves to mock something which you don't believe. I have many more questions than answers as my relationship with God is concerned. We're not supposed to have all the answers here (I Corinthians 13:12). In my opinion, I do not believe Jesus would consider water-boarding to be considered torture. If you disagree, fine; but you won't change my mind.

     
  • posted at 4:03 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Brian, have you ever been to England? In regular personal or business contact with any British citizens? You have no idea how ridiculous your statements sound to the rest of us. Please do some research. REad some BBC articles on the topic at the very least.

     
  • posted at 3:59 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    Gator: If you respond "Danny..." odds are I won't find it, because I scan through the nonsense looking for my name "daniel"

     
  • posted at 3:58 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

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    lifesafeway: I am satisfied with my presentation of an idea, and I am not going to stoop so low as to change my understanding of fact so as to join a conversation.

     
  • posted at 3:56 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Gator: You asked, "why are you still living here??"Your question pre-supposes a very simplistic view of life, and the community around us.I am devoted to making a very positive contribution to my community, and America.Apparently your understanding of life and America are too simple to understand how this could be possible.I suggest a devotion toward elimination of the alcohol, and a devotion to seeking life's answers.

     
  • posted at 3:45 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter,Cut the crap. Are we to conclude that you believe even enhanced psychologicalforms of interrogation that don't involveany physical mistreatment are to be included in the spectrum of torture and should thus be not allowed? You are aware that their are liberal lawyers rewritng the definition of torture so that even the mere suggestion of messing with a terrorist mind is grounds for prosecution? The terrorist have already concluded that they don't have to win this war with brute force.All they have to do is convince enough lawyers to redefine things and change laws to their advantage. Obviously you are unaware how Sharia Law in Englandhas just about paralysed the country.

     
  • posted at 3:32 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    " Rhodie v2.0 wrote on May 3, 2009 6:47 PM:I think an act of evil only begets an act of evil and torture is evil. -I don't see anything wrong with an eye for an eye. Rhodie understands that the only way to defeat evil is to be more evil than the evil doers. As long as their are those that aren't willing to be more evil and barbaric than the terrorist, we will never defeat them. Our military is perfectly capable eliminating large populations of terrorists in a short period of time with little collateral damage. Oh, but the liberal and terrorist appeasing lawyers are just lying in wait to slap another lawsuit on the U.S. military for the mere suggestion their might be collateral damage. The money that's pumped into their pocketbooks by CAIR and HAMAS has brainwashed them into thinking CAIR and HAMAS are nothing more than just nice people who are misunderstood.

     
  • posted at 3:13 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Gator, does torture work with your religion? It has been stated here repeatedly that torture does not work.

     
  • posted at 2:43 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Question, how do you deal with a person who’s only goal in life is to kill and unlike westerners are not afraid to die?? We are not dealing with boy scouts here. They have little regard for life, they will kill the old, womenand children with ease. They have killed young girls for going to school,they will cut out a persons tongue for various reasons. When they stonea person to death they haul rocks to the site, not to large or to small bury the victim up to their Waist and fire away!! The few Americans that haveBeen captured have come back in pieces, or hung from a bridge and burnedto death. Some were decapitated and shown on TV… I would guess if we play patty-cake with these sub-humans we will live to see the day we regretIt. And 9/11 will look like a Sunday picnic…

     
  • posted at 2:38 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    BRAVO, Rhodie.

     
  • posted at 1:52 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Rhodie v2.0 wrote on May 3, 2009 6:47 PM:I think an act of evil only begets an act of evil and torture is evil. You have eloquently put into words what I have been wanting to say since this discussion began.Thank you.

     
  • posted at 1:49 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito wrote on May 3, 2009 6:34 PM:We know where you are coming from. You'd rather sit by and watch your children being slaughtered by terrorists than to used enhanced coercion techniques that might save their lives. Obviously, you didn't even bother to read my posts. Torture is not an effective means for obtaining truthful information.People who are being tortured will tell their tormentors whatever they want to hear regardless of the truth.The Army's own studies have shown this over and over again.

     
  • posted at 1:47 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Or do we as a society say the lives of many are not worth the act of evil?I think an act of evil only begets an act of evil and tourtue is evil. Intense and prolonged interogations, drugs or some combination may accomplish the same thing as waterbording. Is brainwashing the same as torture? that is a tough one, I would be for reality shifting techniques to try to get some of these terrorist and supporters to identify the US as not an enemy. If you do things to make people hate us more than they will comply, but if you try to make them friends, even at half effectiveness that is still half the enemies we had.Can't really articulate it well right now since I am bouncing between the computer and stove but there you go; torture bad, make them friends.

     
  • posted at 1:34 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    torture is in the eye of the beholder. I'd rather be waterboarded than have to listen to Janine Garofolo pontificate, or the Dixie Chicks in concert. Now that would be torture. So Leonard and Voter, my last words are these: We know where you are coming from. You'd rather sit by and watch your children being slaughtered by terrorists than to used enhanced coercion techniques that might save their lives. Because you don't want to hurt the feelings of the terrorists. Good for you, you're wonderful human beings, and an insult to your ancestors who did whatever necessary to see that their DNA survived another generation.

     
  • posted at 1:32 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    In regards to the Catholic Church's teachings on torture:"The Catechism of the Catholic Church condemns torture, saying that which “uses physical or moral violence to extract confessions, punish the guilty, frighten opponents, or satisfy hatred” is “contrary to respect for the person and for human dignity.”Pope John Paul II’s 1993 encyclical Veritas Splendor, reiterating the Second Vatican Council’s Pastoral Constitution Gaudium et Spes, described “physical and mental torture and attempts to coerce the spirit” as being “hostile to life.”"That said the same article states that a poll found Catholics more likely to support torture than others.http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15852So what is my stance on torture? I have to think that for 90%+ of the terrorists there is a better way to get the information, but is there time to use those techniques? If Prisoner 1A53578 is thought to have info about a cell operating in san Fran with intent on detonating a powerful IED on a busy bridge do we say please and oh comon. just tell us and risk the lives of innocent people? Does one act of evil counter a larger act of evil? Cont.

     
  • posted at 1:11 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito wrote on May 3, 2009 1:04 PM: Why do you own guns whose design seem to be best suited for killing people? Like most people, I fall far short of the Lord's mark.That and the fact that target shooting is a really fun hobby.

     
  • posted at 1:10 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito wrote on May 3, 2009 1:04 PM:" And Leonard, turning the other cheek is regarding a slap on the face, not murderCogito, look at the passage in context.Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 BUT I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Now, if tooth pulling and eye gouging isn't EXACTLY the sort of thing you are advocating, I don't know what is.

     
  • posted at 12:51 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    dogs4you wrote on May 3, 2009 12:38 PM: I would have given him any and all the information I had to give, how about you?I would tell them whatever I thought they wanted to hear, regardless of the truth, and that is the big problem with torture.I suspect that, when all is said and done, it will turn out that this accounts for much of the supposed pre war intelligence that linked Hussein and Al Queda. The Bush Administration wanted specific responses from the people they were torturing, the people being tortured knew this and they gave the "correct" response accordingly.The result is that the Administration made bad decisions based on bad information and a whole lot or our servicemen and women got killed.

     
  • posted at 12:45 pm on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito wrote on May 3, 2009 12:21 PM:" What about Jesus and the moneychangers? What about Passover?( I'm assuming you believe in the Trinity Leonard). The rules God follows are undoubtedly different from the rules he has laid out for people.Christ's words on the subject of violence are explicit.

     
  • posted at 11:41 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    LOL

     
  • posted at 10:52 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    The best way to get information from anyone is a pair of ear phones and non-stop RAP music at full volumn, if you can call it music. Anyone listing to that for an extended period of time will spill his or guts. I know I would and it wouldn`t take long, even Leonard.

     
  • posted at 9:52 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    By the way Voter, since I don't speak weasel, I'd have to hire you for an interpreter. Bahahahahaha!

     
  • posted at 9:50 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, you asked about my "Church", not my religion. I don't always agree with my Church, or my religion, on all matters. Like gay marriage for example, I don't have a problem with it, from a civil standpoint. There are pro choice Catholics, and as far as I know, they're not excommunicated. My viewpoint on interrogation is one from me as a human being. Having an atheist question my Christianity is completely absurd. What the h*ll do you know, really.

     
  • posted at 9:17 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    The way I see it is each case is different, you have a softball enemy combatant he is handled as such, in other words you go easy…Next you have a suspect that has information that could save thousands of lives!! Youdo what?? Start easy and increase the pressure, then use drugs and if it’smoving to slow then you go the psychological route, use their mind againstThem, as a last resort you inflict fear and pain…

     
  • posted at 8:57 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    This discussion is mind boggling. Cogitio, how is it possible that you don't know if your religion supports torture? Go ask. Why would any decent person defend torture? And as Leonard said, it doesn't work. The Israeli government stopped doing it for that very reason. Seriously, where would you guys draw the line? Would you torture an old woman because she wouldn't reveal the location of her terrorist son? Would you torture a small child who had information about his terrorist father? And Cogito, you're saying you'd be willing to torture an animal such as a weasel???? This discussion is beyond stupid. You're defending torture.

     
  • posted at 8:04 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    And Leonard, turning the other cheek is regarding a slap on the face, not murder. If a terrorist killed one of your children, would you hand him another one? If you believe it extends beyond a slap, why are you such a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment? Why do you own guns whose design seem to be best suited for killing people?

     
  • posted at 7:38 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard, did you see the movie Marathon Man, in it Dustin Hoffman was asked, "Is it Safe" while he didn`t know the answer, he was strapped down and his mouth opened to have all his teeth drilled on, now were talking real torture. Dustin couldn`t give an answer, so the mad man kept drilling. It was only a movie, never the less I can`t begin to think of the enormous pain that Hoffman felt. Had it been me, I would have given him any and all the information I had to give, how about you?

     
  • posted at 7:21 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    What about Jesus and the moneychangers? What about Passover?( I'm assuming you believe in the Trinity Leonard).

     
  • posted at 7:19 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, there are many animals that live outside the world of petdom. I would never have a hyena or a wolverine as a pet, and these are the animals I'd more associate with these scumbags. I've never heard my Pastor even bring up the subject of torture, so I don't know how my Church stands on this issue. Leonard, we did get valuable information from interrogating these guys, so excuse me for not buying into your liberal belief system. Even Jon Stewart made some fun of the situation pondering the question "what if it is immoral, AND effective?". LOL!

     
  • posted at 7:14 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    In the story of the Gospels, who are the good guys.A) The Romans who torture people through all sorts of methods including crucifixion ORB) The man who taught his disciples to live a life of non violence and, when struck, to offer their attacker the other cheek?

     
  • posted at 7:11 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Study after study have shown that torture is not an effective means for obtaining accurate information.Forget about the ethics, why are we sullying our national honor for something that doesn't even work?

     
  • posted at 7:06 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    safeway, you think torture is something that would be irrelevant to Jesus? Seriously? What's your church's view on torture? Why won't you guys answer that????? You're all desperate to justify atrocity. That IS sick.

     
  • posted at 7:03 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    The prisoners are animals? Is that how you treat your animals? any animal? Thinking like yours is how atrocities occur. The Jews weren't like "us". They were different. "Witches" weren't like us. Burn them. Heretics are evil. Put them on the rack. Doesn't torturing a suspected terrorist make you the same as them? Yes. I think your opinion is proof that fundamentalist religion leads to atrocity. The sanctimonious always rationalize the horrors they commit. That's what those terrorists do. You are no different than them. Sick.

     
  • posted at 6:31 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    The thing is, He who could heal the sick with his touch, and turn water into wine, would probably be better at interrogation than any person on earth, so the point is moot. One thing I'm sure of though, is the King of Kings would protect the meek from murdering hordes if He deemed it necessary.

     
  • posted at 6:01 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    "Painful?" I would rather believe that they were in fear of dying, not pain as most of us would define it. Are you suggesting that placing our enemies, those sworn to ridding the planet of the United States, should not be in fear of being executed for their actions?The "sick puppies" of which you write are not those of us who desire that we be safe and free. No, I would think that it would be those who desire us to be eradicated are terribly demented. I wouldn't define you in such a way; I just believe that you are wrong.Why is it that those who disagree simply cannot resist the use of such childish name-calling, hateful rhetoric or mean-spiritedness? The "puppies" part is cute, but the "sick" is not. Why can't you just disagree without being so off-the-wall? It doesn't add anything to your argument; it just exposes you as being radical.As far as Jesus, I'm with Cogito here. What He would or would not do is not relevant. Are you also suggesting that Christians in the Armed Forces are in opposition to their faith in their mission to protect our nation?

     
  • posted at 5:59 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, if you'd read my earlier posts, you'd find out I don't care if it's torture or not. These people are animals, they want to kill YOU and your family. How thick is your skull? Remember what they did to a journalist? Would you consider beheading torture?

     
  • posted at 5:56 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Wow Safeway, voter thinks you're on par with Jesus!

     
  • posted at 5:54 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/waterboarding-is-torture--i-did-it-myself-says-us-advisor-398490.htmlor download and read the pdf of the Red Cross blow by blow here:http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22614If you read both of these and still claim it is not torture then you are one sadistic dude.

     
  • posted at 5:50 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    safeway, did you read the accounts of the torture by the Red Cross? If you believe what was done to those prisoners was not painful or torture, then you are one sick puppy. Who would Jesus waterboard, Safeway?

     
  • posted at 5:30 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Definition of "torture" -1. The act of inflicting excruciating "pain", as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.2. a method of inflicting such "pain".3.Often, tortures. the "pain" or suffering caused or undergone.4.extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.5.a cause of severe "pain" or anguish(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/torture)Waterboarding = torture? I don't think so, although I am completely sure this won't even begin to end the controversy. It's just that my idea of torture falls within the examples offered by Gator on May 3, 2009 at 10:21 AM.

     
  • posted at 5:27 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    danielh and to all others who believe our Government was behind 9/11 and killed over 3000 of it’s own people, I have a very simple Question, why areyou still living here?? If you have no answer then don’t resist the temptationto just shut up!!!!

     
  • posted at 5:21 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, I consider water boarding and sleep deprivation a form of intense harassment not torture.. Torture in it’s purest form involves inflicting sharpintense pain!! The removal of fingers, hands, feet, eyes ears, teeth. The useof electric shock and of course burning a person till they pass out from painthe people we are dealing with wrote the book on torture and are masters of it.

     
  • posted at 5:15 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Keeping an already free nation free is not an easy job. It takes much more than a Constitution to keep those at bay who would want to destroy it. The United States is no exception. While we sit comfortably in our nice little homes, feeling good about ourselves because we have such liberty to do essentially as we please, there are many out there who work tirelessly to maintain that sense of security. Do they do it with nice conversations with those who hate us so much that they desire to annihilate us?Grow up, America. To prosecute the very men and women who risk their own lives to allow the rest of us to lead relatively mundane and terror-free lives is the height of arrogance, stupidity and anti-Americanism.While the cry goes out for the rest of the world to "like" us, those who seek to destroy us are laughing out loud (LOL) as we behave like spoiled brats. They've gotten us very close to where they want us - pathetically weak and fighting amongst ourselves. It's only a matter of time. And then what? Prosecute those who protect us for not doing enough? Audacious!

     
  • posted at 5:11 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    You know, if you Democrats want to change the rules to go after a President after he's out of office for past war crimes, why don't you start with Truman. He dropped 2 atomic bombs on civilian targets killing over 200,000 people immediately, and many from radiation illness later. Compared to making a few terrorists uncomfortable by pouring water up their nose, it seems pretty heinous wouldn't you agree?

     
  • posted at 4:58 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, my relationship with God is none of your business, so butt out. I'm sick of pablum puking pacifists like yourself sticking up for the rights of terrorists at the cost of innocents. Liberal thought makes you brave enough to kill unborn babies, but believe in rights for killers. You have a serious mental defect, and not an ounce of fortitude. Pacifists have never accomplished a single meaningful thing in the history of mankind. Being a warrior against those who would do harm to everyday citizens is the right side of this issue. I think God will agree with me.

     
  • posted at 4:27 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    danielh, I'm sure your reliance upon science as the end-all to all questions would make your science teachers proud, but there are some holes in that notion. First, even now in this most advanced age science does not answer "all" questions. Second, as even I have a high respect for scientific explanations, it's the "scientists" who are still prone to error, conjecture, politics and strong-arm tactics, to name but a few human qualities.I wonder though why you would have posed your first comment here as a question if you didn't think there would be a debate? After all, this is a forum designed specifically for discussion (argument). Were you expecting us to simply nod our collective heads in agreement as you wow us with your intellectual thought processes over the downing of Building No. 7 (or 5)? When that didn't come, you then decided to try to cut it off by hiding behind the axioms of science to save you? Interesting approach; but not very scientific.

     
  • posted at 3:57 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Gator, what you describe is not waterboarding, but another method of torture. We executed Japanese for waterboarding. Read the Red Cross report online and tell me if we tortured people or not. Until you know what we actually did to these people, you have no business commenting on it. In addition, to what was done by our own military/intelligence people, we sent other prisoners to black sites in countries that use even more horrific methods. We tortured. We sent people to be tortured.

     
  • posted at 3:51 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    danielh: re: your May 2, 2009 4:56 PM post, I wasn't aware that I needed your consent to comment on a logical extension to your conspiracy theory. There are some who actually believe that the entire event on 9/11 was orchestrated by our own government; admittedly while I recall that you were among this small group believing such twaddle, I don't remember just how far you thought the government's reach went in this regard.I don't understand your desire to keep such a narrow scope to the discourse on your claim here while in the past you've seemed content to take us on a whole lot of wild goose chases yourself. At least my May 2, 2009 10:06 AM comment was germane to your most recent opinion.

     
  • posted at 3:22 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Dannyboy you are the living, breathing example of Ron Whites line You Just Can’t Fix Stupid… And here is a 2 for 1 shot, The Japanese didn’tWater board, they shoved a hose into the stomach and then poured waterinto the stomach till It burst… All special operations soldiers go throughwater boarding so they know how to survive it..

     
  • posted at 2:48 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito, we executed Japanese for waterboarding our soldiers. It's not "enhanced interrogation". It's torture. They make up those nice sounding words so people like you will support it. Does your church support torture? You said that you got your conservative republican morals from your church. Who would Jesus torture, Cogito? Answer that.

     
  • posted at 2:17 am on Sun, May 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Yea... Ok, keep telling yourself that, and may i suggest new medication may be in order??

     
  • posted at 5:39 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Gator: I do not have an opinion. Opinion is for people that argue, and they don't have a place in fact.People that argue get nothing done.My statements are based upon scientific analysis, and forensics.You can't touch that.

     
  • posted at 5:38 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Gator: ... and you had to use the lives of 300+ people as evidence to support your beer-stricken opinion.No. Lives only make it an emotional topic, and they elevate the importance of arriving upon the truth.Conversely, you are using lives lost as an excuse to build a foundation upon your opinion.

     
  • posted at 5:37 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Gator: Just because you can type the most curse words. G** d** s*** f*** p*** does not mean that you are correct.It only means that you might be drinking beer, or in between the beer.Curse words have no place in facts.

     
  • posted at 4:49 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Ivan, what if these terrorists had a hold of your grandchildren, was going to kill them. And, you had one of the terrorists in your possession that knew where they were. Would you idly stand by and let them die? Because I would do whatever necessary to get them back safely, even if it meant my own life. Without hesitation.

     
  • posted at 4:45 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    That's the difference between you and I Ivan. I don't think enhanced coercion techniques used to exact information from these terrorists was wrong. Not at all.

     
  • posted at 4:42 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    As far as the towers, I watched a special on cable that had the engineers who designed the towers explain how and why they came down. There was no talk of conspiracies, only unforeseen design weaknesses. I don't think they were sticking up for any government demolition squads. Daniel, have you checked in to what Ron Paul thinks of those who think that 9/11 was an inside job? He doesn't have a very high opinion of you.

     
  • posted at 4:38 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    I would like to think that I could hold up under torture but, even so, I know that I could not hold out even a minute if my grandchildren were made to suffer for my silence.With that in mind, if the ends TRULY justify the means, why don't we just take the quickest and most expedient route and torture the terrorists wives and children before their eyes?If "because somethings are just wrong" isn't enough reason anymore, what is?

     
  • posted at 4:37 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    What I'm telling you Gator is that it wasn't for the oil. Bush had a harebrained idea that we could establish a democracy over there. Iraq was the most available. They had a leader who wasn't popular, and they were the most impious. The majority of the resistance we've faced there has come from over the borders. Iran will take them over soon after any pull out by us. Which will give them control over the most oil in the middle east. Count on it. That's probably why Oduma was bowing to the Saudis. We'll need them then more than ever.

     
  • posted at 4:23 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    danielh, If you want the straight scoop on the towers go to http://nyfd.com/ scroll down till you come to “ a Fire Chiefs assessment of why the towersCollapsed” It’s a to the point no Bull S*** report. Every thing else is pureC**p.. They lost 343 men and women they are not about to lie about it…..

     
  • posted at 4:11 pm on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito, They have 90,billion in our banks and you and I are footing the bill for the rebuild of Iraq.. We are supposedly leaving in the next 16 months toTwo years yet Halliburton just signed a new five year contract to keep on doing what they do the best…you yell me!!

     
  • posted at 11:59 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    wtf: Thanks. WTC #7. Did you see that crazy guy on the link that I gave?

     
  • posted at 11:58 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Gator: Interesting. The story that they want us to believe is that Osama Bin Laden organized the attacks, and that Afghanistan was harboring him.Next, they wanted us to believe that Saddam Hussein was somehow involved.

     
  • posted at 11:56 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    lodisafeway: I didn't ask you about your delusion with the twin towers. I specifically referred to the third building, which was WTC #5.Who knocked down that building?

     
  • posted at 11:49 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Gator, if it was "for the oil", how do explain the fact that we haven't received a single drop of it from Iraq?

     
  • posted at 11:47 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    I'm with you Walter, whatever it takes to get information to save innocent lives. These lowlifes want nothing more than to maim and kill as many people as they can, even to the point of killing themselves as part of their plan. They don't deserve the same rights as a soldier in a standing army, because they do not represent a country. They represent a cause, and that cause is death to the infidels, and that is you and I.

     
  • posted at 8:25 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Question for danielh, If all of the Terrorist on those planes were Saudi then why did we invade Afghanistan?? Why didn’t we Bomb Saudi Arabia??for the same reason we went into Iraq, the “OIL”. If the Iraqis have over 90Billion in oil money in our banks why is the American Tax Payer paying toRebuild Iraq???

     
  • posted at 5:13 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    You're right about the building coming down at 5:00 PM, danielh; however, it wasn't #5 it was #7.

     
  • posted at 5:06 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Sorry, danielh, we know who flew those planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and into a field in Pennsylvania. And no one else dropped the buildings surrounding the Twin Towers.There's no governmental conspiracy here, as much as you would like to believe. While you're free to move forward with this subject (again), I'm hopeful that it won't take root (again). But then, this is Lodi and we've got just as many goof-balls here as anywhere else. Knock yourself out!

     
  • posted at 12:17 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Walter: This website is a good one for 9/11 evidence: https://www.ae911truth.net/profile.php?uid=997216

     
  • posted at 12:12 am on Sat, May 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Walter White: You've been watching the news too much, and cartoons. Thows mean ol' nasty teworists! Wet's towrtcher them!How do you know that you have the correct guilty party?Who dropped down the Twin Towers? If you think you are answering correct, then how do you explain WTC #5 coming down at 5:00 PM.The BBC reported WTC #5 was collapsed while it was still standing (in the background of the reporter who was on the television reporter).That said, who dropped the towers? Are you torturing the correct people?

     

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article: Letter: What is happening in this count…

To my mind this letter reflects the unfortunate rise in America of those who would rather die on their knees than live on their feet. Not …

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What would you like to see in Lodi's parks?

Lodi's Parks, Recreation and Cultural Services Department is hosting a public workshop at 7 p.m. at Hutchins Street Square to find out how it can better meet the needs of the community. What would you like to see in Lodi's parks?

Total Votes: 200

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