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Letter: Redistribution of wealth has never worked

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Posted: Tuesday, January 7, 2014 12:00 am

I hope John Lucas read the Chicago Tribune editorial that appeared on the same page as his letter to the Editor, “Economy would improve if the rich would pay their share,” Dec. 18, 2013.

Communism and socialism are too easy to sell to a gullible public like Mr. Lucas. It has great emotional appeal to those who feign compassion and fail to understand economics. Socialism and the redistribution of wealth has never succeeded in the history of mankind. The Castros in Cuba love it because it keeps them in power. Most Democrats enjoy the power it gives them to tell the rest of us rubes how to live our lives. More power for them means less freedom for the rest of us.

Maybe Mr. Lucas does not value freedom. I do — President Obama does not!

Jerry Osgood

Galt

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Welcome to the discussion.

64 comments:

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 4:39 pm on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    NRA.org [lol]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:25 pm on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    Hogwash, the frightening thing is that you actually believe it.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 12:35 pm on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1399

    You've yet to sustain even one scintilla of evidence in any rebutal that I am incorrect, only purloined passages which you imply came from you. I have shown many times that your claims are wrong and some are just flat out lies. Not being able to discern which is which, you behave like the "sheeple" you mock here daily. Just admit you're a fraud.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:18 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I am still upset with Clinton about that. Yes it was a Republican congress but he should have vetoed it.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:15 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Obamacare is going to bring down health care costs by a lot. I know you are completely ignorant when seeing what other countries do in healthcare. You have to remember that we pay the highest in the world as a percentage of GDP and cost per patient. In a very few years our health costs are going do dramatically decrease. Who are you going to blame then?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:54 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I am still mad at him for not vetoing it

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 5:53 pm on Sun, Jan 12, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    On November 12th, 1999, Bill Clinton signed into law the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. [sleeping]

    The final version of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act passed the House by a vote of 362-57 and the Senate by a vote of 90-8. This made the bill "veto proof", meaning that if Clinton had decided to veto, the bill would have been passed anyways. Having said that, if Clinton truly didn't want the bill to become law, he could have vetoed the bill in a symbolic gesture, but this did not happen.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 12:56 pm on Sun, Jan 12, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    Just wait until ObamaCare taxes hit the small business owner, it will be catastropic, who are you going to blame then John? Bush?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:30 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Jack, one thing I think you overlooked. Small business owners have been hit very hard with taxes because of the uber wealthy and corporations welching out on their fair share. If we are to have a future the middle class business owner will be a big part of that and needs conditions that will help them thrive.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:24 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Jack, I do not know where you came from but thank you for being here. Your clarity and logic is wonderful. I wish I had your ability to write in such a clear and concise manner. I hope you realize you are probably not going to change any of the people on this forum but there are many lurkers sand people with their minds open that need to hear what you have to say. I hope you start writing LTE's also. Welcome

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 2:22 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Patrick W. Maple writes: "I work harder today at 62 to keep what I EARNED at 31 than I did then."

    This is so true; since Reagan productivity has increased but incomes for the working and middle class have stagnated or declined. The reason is that the increased profits have been funneled into the pockets of the corporate elite rather than being distributed among the employees... and jobs being shipped to cheap labor overseas. There are numerous studies and charts illustrating the severity of income equality since 1980. This is one of the arguments in favor of wealth redistribution - or - returning the profits earned by society back to the workers who earned it rather than allowing the wealthy elite to funnel it all to themselves.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 12:45 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    So far, the"war on poverty" has cost taxpayers $20TRILLIONrich by just handing them the cash instead of filtering it trough government run agencies.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 12:39 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    [thumbup]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:20 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Who is advocating communism, Mr. Dockter? Not discussing it because it's not happening - no matter how many time Jerry Osgood & company use the words communism, socialism, Marxism, etc.

    It's all in you head. Stop listening to those voices.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:31 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:30 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 5:26 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Brian Dockter write: "You do realize all the safeguards are still in place and there never will be a Great Depression again no matter how much you want it ot be so."

    I suppose you think Glass-Steagall wasn't necessary. The Repeal of that was introduced by the GOP and passed when the GOP had a majority in both the Senate and the House. As for a Republican Great Depression like we had in the 1930s, maybe it won't be exactly the same, but we're currently living with the results of dismantling those safeguards. A crash can still come thanks to the efforts of the wealthy elite and their representatives in government.

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 12:49 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Osgood writes: "Raising the tax rate for the rich to 91% was in response to the great depression."

    The Republican Great Depression of the 1930s was a wakeup call for Americans that the wealthy elite were trying to take over the country the same way they are today. The 91% tax rate for the upper tier was put in place to get corporations to reinvest in their businesses and raise revenue to build and maintain infrastructure instead of hoarding it away and use it for high risk investments and corrupting our democratic process. As things deteriorate now after having the safeguards dismantled that would prevent another Republican Great Depression, the American people are beginning to wake up again and realize what's happening. The talk against monopolies and bad trade policies as well as redistribution of wealth and income inequality is something that was common leading up to FDR's presidency and it has become an important part of the dialogue today for the same reason.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:49 am on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Do you think she realizes she exhales CO2 Mr. Baxter? [lol]

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:01 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    LBJ's "War on Poverty" started over 50 years ago...it has gone nowhere!!! It is and was and abject FAILURE!!! I work harder today at 62 to keep what I EARNED at 31 than I did then. I say simply...grow up, get a job, raise a family and let me raise mine.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:08 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    MALARKEY. Your "gotcha" moment was nullified so now you back pedal.
    Scottsdale, Arizona. Keep up.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:38 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Yes, Baxxter, I knew that. That, however, is NOT what YOU stated in your comment.

    As for Lodi, or Coronado, or wherever Baxxter pretends to be located at the moment, the CO2 output is most likely to be at a dangerous level.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:29 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Exactly! [thumbup][lol] Next Mike will show up and claim the EPA's website isn't the EPA's website. ROFLMAO! [rolleyes]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 7:37 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 394

    What about Glass-Steagall's repeal? There's a safeguard for you. Many economists believe its repeal played a major role in the Great Recession and subsequent bank bail outs.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:10 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    John stated,

    The uber wealthy with their Conservative media have done a great job on the gullible such as Jerry Osgood.They have convinced him that if the uber wealthy pays the same amount in taxes by percentage as a person on minimum wage that this would be communism or socialism.

    -Ah, the sleight of hand. It's not communistic or socialistic for the rich to pay the same amount of taxes. But it could lead to Communinsm or Socialism. Kind of counterintuative to what the founding fathers envisioned for America. John, I suggest you re-read Jerry's letter.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:59 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    It's a vicious circle Jack. Raising the tax rate for the rich to 91% was in response to the great depression. And Reaganomics was in response to the rich transferring their money into offshore accounts because of the 91% tax rate.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:54 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Jack Gilder stated,

    FDR returned much of the wealth back where it belongs by tax rates for the upper tier being raised to 91%.

    -But raising it to 91% had nothing to do with the rich transferring their money to offshore accounts did it Jack. And Reaganomics had nothing to do with creating incentives for those rich to transfer their money back into U.S. accounts did it Jack.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:08 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    The lengths Ms. Bobbin & Co will go to avoid having any kind of discussion about the effects Communism would have on the U.S. economy.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 5:56 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobbin,

    I suggest you pick up the book "Stealth Jihad". Not that I believe Obama is a terrorist. However, I don't believe he's doing enough to curb the problem of stealth jihad here in the U.S.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 5:29 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Thank you Ms. Bobbin,

    You saved me some key strokes by bringing up some of the results of what happens to Communist countries. The fact the rich left first and left the poor to rot sums up what the greed monster can do. And are you suggesting the poor who came here haven't done much better?

    So, are you done with your BLAH BLAH BLAHS when someone brings up Communism again? For your sake I sure hope so.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:05 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    WHAT? Who said anything about not having trucks? Now you are just making stuff up for the sake of arguing. But, that is the liberal way.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:29 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [smile]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:28 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [smile]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:27 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:40 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    Bobbin, a person of your high intellect should know that internal combustion engines emit BOTH carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. But, you knew that, didn’t you.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:19 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    Read Al Gore's writings? Hilarous. I see what your problem is, you actually believe Moron Gore. Al Gore, the guru of the environmental hysterics, allows liberals to assuage their guilt by selling “carbon credits,” modern day indulgences that the hummer-driving liberal can buy to try and offset their carbon footprint. Of course, the biggest beneficiaries of the carbon credits are those selling these environmental pardons, including Al Gore himself. No mystery as to why Gore sells his agenda driven "science". Only gullible people fall for snake oil schemes.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 5:10 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2027

    From the EPA: http://www.epa.gov/oms/climate/documents/420f11041.pdf

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 5:08 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2027

    If you are going to mock someone, it is usually a good idea to know your facts BEFORE mocking them. Cars DO release Co2. For every 2000 cars about 11,000lbs of Co2 a year. Light trucks even more.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:23 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    That was not her intent. She was just mimicking Ron's writing style. Got it down pretty pat, I would say.. I am sure she appreciates your comments on Ron's writing style. I know I sure do. I guess we are all in agreement with Ron's use of the English language.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:56 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    As usual a moronic answer to a hard problem. I used to haul produce to the East coast mainly Boston and New York. New York starts running out of food after three days if the trucks quit coming. Your brilliant idea about not having trucks probably is not the best solution. I am sure you can find some better solutions. I suggest reading some of Al Gore's writings on the subject as he tells the solutions of the best scientists in the field. I know you had rather listen to your God's Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity ( two boobs who could not be bothered with college) as you would feel more comfortable with them as they are more your intellectual equal.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 10:14 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 548

    so you agree we should make attempts to lessen the amounts of CO2 and diesel fumes into our air?

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 10:13 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 548

    [thumbup]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:10 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Baxxter wrote: "Sure didn't bother you in all the years you spent running all over America spewing co2 and diesel fumes into our air. Different if you are getting paid to do so?"

    Baxxter...I'm ashamed of you! You do know that automobile emit Carbon Monoxide, not CO2, right? And diesel is a cleaner burning fuel - that's why much public transportation switched to diesel before changing over to natural gas.

    But I suppose you thought your small minded retort was clever, eh?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:03 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    But, Mr. Lucas, Mr. Kinderman has a larger collection of catch phrases that he employs quite regularly. I think he has really come to believe that President Obama can be compared to the leaders of North Korea.

    I'm just shocked he hasn't employed his usual "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" recently to make sure we all know that the president is a Muslim terrorist bent on the destruction of the United States.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:00 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    When was that, Mr. Dockter?

    If you are speaking of the large emigration of people from Eastern Europe - that occurred long before the Eastern bloc countries were incorporated into the Soviet Union.

    If you are speaking of Cuba...totally different story. The rich were the first to get on planes and fly to Miami with all of their cash, saving not their lives, but their ill-gotten fortunes made from gambling and prostitution. They left the poor to rot on little rafts in an attempt to make it to the great nation of the United States where they believed money grew on trees.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:53 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Kindseth wrote: "Than(k) you Joanne. This will long remain as one of your most productive posts. I admire your insight, research, and skillful delivery. You certainly bring intellect to our pedestrian musings."

    Your welcome....but it seems my post was above your level of cognizance, Mr. Kindseth.

    I won't bother to explain it to you.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:32 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Jack,

    You do realize all the safeguards are still in place and there never will be a Great Depression again no matter how much you want it ot be so. But you have every right to advance the Liberal self-fulfilling prophecy that there is no way to avoid another Great Depression.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:59 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    Sure didn't bother you in all the years you spent running all over America spewing co2 and diesel fumes into our air. Different if you are getting paid to do so?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:56 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    [thumbup]
    Yes, Mr. Kindseth, her finest display of intellect yet.

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 11:47 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    It worked after the Republican Great Depression of the 30s. That was the last time most of the nation's wealth was funneled to the top by rigging the economy for the benefit of the rich. FDR returned much of the wealth back where it belongs by tax rates for the upper tier being raised to 91%. The next few decades saw America's most productive and prosperous period in history until Reagan came to power and lowered those tax rates to what they were during the Republican Great Depression. 30 years of Reaganomics and the Republican party's efforts have eroded most all of the safeguards that were put in place to prevent another Republican Great Depression and look what happened... most the nation's wealth has returned to a tiny minority at the top again and the economy has plummeted. If FDR's redistribution of wealth worked so good last time... we need that again.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:21 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are one of the very few that can say less than Mr Baxter can with more words. Bravo!

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 4:51 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobbin,

    Many people left Communist and Socialist countries and came to the U.S. for a new life. Now they are living the nightmare all over again incrementally with Obama in power. But you're the expert. You know more than they do. How could we be so wrong about you?[ohmy]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 2:08 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it."

    So much for memories.

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 1:57 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    Than you Joanne. This will long remain as one of your most productive posts. I admire your insight, research, and skillful delivery. You certainly bring intellect to our pedestrian musings.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:53 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Communism, BLAH, BLAH....socialism, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....Socialism and the redistribution of wealth, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH....the Castros, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH......

    Same old litany of catch phrases that really mean nothing whatsoever - especially to the writer who has no real concept of what he is stating.

    [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:39 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    There is very few that can say less with more words than you.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:38 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Only an idiot thinks that putting too much carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is not a problem.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:17 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    I agree that “stupid is as stupid does.” That premise has brought us to where we are today. Just how stupid were We the People to believe in the President of the United States along with the Speaker of the House and Senate Leader with all of their lies, falsehoods, chicanery and trickery? Pretty stupid I’d have to say. And those of us who were screaming at the top of our collective lungs to stop all of this before it got out of control were ignored with that same sense of utter stupidity. No, no, no we were told! Believe Dear Leaders - they’re doing what’s best for us. They aren’t lying; they aren’t trying to trick us; they care. Yeah, right!

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 10:17 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    Someday when the embargo is lifted Mr. Lucas will be able to follow his dream.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:17 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Liberals always live in a fantasy world that is not influenced by reality Mr. Osgood. That's why they see racism in Oreo cookies, they don't believe there is Muslim terrorism, they think the government doesn't have a spending problem, and they believe carbon dioxide is pollution.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 7:26 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1847

    Mr. Osgood, you are wrong. Obama loves freedom. HIS freedom, not yours.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 7:13 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2027

    I have NO issue with "redistributing" wealth. It is the governments role to take care of those that can not take care of themselves. My issue is the government is trying to take care of EVERYONE. TOO many government programs are being abused and assistance for those that need it consumed by those that don't.

    Unless we want the government getting into business to make a profit, then taxes are the only source of income the government has. Unfortunately there is WAY too much waste of that income wen the government gets it.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:55 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The other interesting thing about the gullible Mr Osgood's letter is the following:

    Socialism and the redistribution of wealth has never succeeded in the history of mankind.

    Just what does the gullible Mr. Osgood think buying lobbyists and politicians by the uber wealthy so they pay less in overall taxes than those in the middle class? This is income distribution at its finest and sleaziest. It amazes me how so-called conservatives like the gullible Mr Osgood worship those on his knees who are financially sticking it to him. Stupid is as stupid does.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:26 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The uber wealthy with their Conservative media have done a great job on the gullible such as Jerry Osgood.They have convinced him that if the uber wealthy pays the same amount in taxes by percentage as a person on minimum wage that this would be communism or socialism. We, the non gullible, would just like the uber wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. Mr Osgood, on the other hand, does not want lose the freedom of paying more in taxes making up for the revenue loss caused by the uber wealthy buying lobbyists and politicians so they can write a tax code putting more of the burden on freedom lovers like the super gullible Mr Osgood and others of the middle class.

    Jerry, we would not mind you and other Conservatives such as Joe Baxter, Jerome Kinderman, Andrew Liebich, Brian Dockter, Rod Portal, Ben Coleman etc being lackeys to the uber wealthy except that it cost us non gullible tax payers so much more money because we have to make up for the revenue loss caused by the uber wealthy moochers that do not pay for their fair share on the tax burden. This not being for communism, this is for having common sense.

     

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