19 comments:

• Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:27 am on Fri, Nov 16, 2012.

  Posts: 2031

  Mr. Paglia - I apologize for the error; I didn’t return to this LNS debate until just a few minutes ago early Friday morning.

  I suspect that the problem with the link is that the story you referenced actually replaced the story I originally found. That rarely happens, if ever. In fact, although I used tinyurl.com in order to shorten the URL from the original article, when I researched the history in my browser for Wednesday's story, it did in fact pull up the article that you referenced. I test all links prior to posting any comment that contain a converted link.

  Nevertheless, my search of the New York Times' "Wheels" section failed to find the original article I original referenced, but the following link will take you to a very similar story that reflects a $40,000.00 cost to replace batteries in the Tesla which was the point I attempted to make. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/automobiles/Tesla-Battery-Failures-Make-Bricking-a-Buzzword.html?pagewanted=all)

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• Patrick W Maple posted at 10:36 am on Thu, Nov 15, 2012.

  Posts: 1795

  What a qualitless letter. You speak as though only big oil is greedy, all the while the govt receives more money from the sale of fuels while giving money to the greedy people of the solar industry...you know...the virtuous people at Solyndar, A123 and the other solar garbage companies. WOW
  

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• Kevin Paglia posted at 11:47 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 1729

  This tech is SEVEN years old, imagine cars sprayed with it, houses and such.

  http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0114_050114_solarplastic.html

  The technology is out there, thesocial collective WILL is not. Not til gas becomes so scarice that we are fighting people in lines to get enough to get to work and back.

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• John Lucas posted at 11:42 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2028

  I agree with you. Let the market decide

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• John Lucas posted at 11:40 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2028

  People at one time like the "status" of owning a horse. The reality is that Electric sports car will perform as well or better than the gas ones. Look at the Tesla S. The days of gas cars are numbered. They will simple not be economically viable.

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• Kevin Paglia posted at 11:33 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 1729

  Believe it or not I am NOT a huge proponent of forcing electric cars on the road. Would love to see more, but the designers need to refine their thinking and look at energy charging systems when away from home (solar built into the car for longer distances and chargin when stopped).

  What I am more interested in is tchnology like the opposing piston engine which 5 years ago was shown to be 50+% efficent, while our current combustion engines at best are about 22% efficient. Imagine if nearly all cars kept the same HP but doubled their mpg rating? There are some single seat. communter cars using high efficent engines that can do 70mph and get 100mpg.

  A side note, the Proxima is a very cool commuter car. [wink]

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• Kevin Paglia posted at 11:22 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 1729

  Jerome: did you read the article you linked? It has nothing to do with the power system but an engineering issue, a steering issue actually. There are recalls like this for gas cars ALL the time, it doesn't mean the power source if faulty.

  Below is a link for the cost of replacing the batteries in a electric car. The MOST expensive is about $650, and will last 5+ years (projected 7, but let's be conservative). Using the MOST expensive battery and a conservative life span It costs about $11 a month to replace the battery. Using solar off your house, solar on the roof of a well designed car then the operating costs are nominal compared to the average car. My wife drives a car that gets 30+ MPG and she still spends more than 100 a month on gas for daily commuting.

  The only reason Electric cars won't be the norm in 10 years is that people in America tend to hold on to "status" very strongly. And having high HP is a big status when it comes to cars. It will be tough to convince people who love thier 350hp cars to buy a enviromentally friendlier 120hp electric. I suspect maybe 1/2 of the people that have gas cars could EASILY switch to electric without much disruption to their normal routine. Others like Robert and friends of mine NEED the hp to do what they do.

  http://www.carsdirect.com/green-cars/how-much-do-electric-car-batteries-cost

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• John Lucas posted at 11:19 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2028

  Jerome, the revolution about green power production is happening all around you. It is going to revolutionize how we live our lives. Big oil and coal are going to be a thing of the past not because of the ecological damage they cause but because they will not be able to compete economically. We are in the infant sages of this revolution and it will speed up as fast as the computer revolution. the free market will take of that. That is why it is important to vote Conservatives out of office so the free market can work its magic. The Republican party is owned by the big oil, coal and the financial industry and the will do anything to advance their interests. the sooner they are gone the faster the market will do its magic.

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• Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:50 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2031

  Okay, just how is solar power "free?" Sure, the sun packs a nice punch, but the processes to harness that power is hardly free. There's still the need to manufacture, install and maintain the panels necessary for households to enjoy this energy source. But don't think for one minute the government won't find a way to tax this "free" commodity.

  As far as electric cars ruling the road in ten years, that's doubtful. For one thing, the average citizen can't afford a Prius. And the maintenance for the batteries is staggering, especially when one needs to be replaced. Just read up on the Tesla "brick." And take a look at this very recent article regarding those wonderful electric cars: “Toyota Recalling 670,000 Prius Hybrids in U.S.” (http://tinyurl.com/am5oqxm)

  On the other hand, oil is still plentiful and internal combustion engines have become cleaner and more economical than ever before. It will take a lot more time than a mere ten years to get all those cars off the roads.

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• John Lucas posted at 10:44 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2028

  Brian you are right in that it is all about economics. That is what going to kill big oil. The technologies are coming on line at a breathtaking pace. I think the comparison you are going to see is the computer and internet revolution. It is like 1990 in the computer business

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• John Lucas posted at 10:39 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2028

  It is like computers the cost of the technology will come down drastically. Fossil fuel cars will not be able to compete with electric cars. There will be a need for a different fuel for heavy industrial applications but natural gas will take that over. We are in the mist of a new type of energy revolution. You can see it everywhere and like the computer revolution it will only accelerate. Big oil and OPEC are in trouble, they know it and are doing everything in their power to stop it but they are on the wrong side of history.

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• Robert Marty posted at 9:18 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 28

  Doubtful. I heard that 10 years ago. There will always be a market for oil in the foreseeable future (even O'Bo cannot stop that). I'll keep driving my big ol' diesel to the store. Actually, I'm thinking of buying a new one -- I think they get nearly 20 mpg!

  But it all balances out - my sister has a Prius, and she loves it. Just not for me.

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• John Lucas posted at 9:08 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2028

  In ten years electric vehicles will rule the road

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• John Lucas posted at 9:07 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2028

  The new tesla S gets close to 300 miles on a charge. In ten years electric vehicles will rule the road. Think about how the internet boomed. This is what will happen

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• Robert Marty posted at 8:21 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 28

  Kries - Let me know when solar power can appopriately fuel my F250 and while towing various trailers with the horsepower and torque I require. Oil is great; we should be exploiting it more. Solar, on a large scale, is a joke (see Solyndra). It's a great way to get wealthy, but just doesn't have the juice (at least not now).

  So naive, Mr. Kries. So naive.

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• Kevin Paglia posted at 6:56 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 1729

  I am one of the greener aware people on these pages. Loe keepng up on Green tech. But this letter is comarin appes ad oranges.

  Oil is used to move us from point A to B because e turn it into gas. Solar is NOT efficient in this for long distances. Short commuting distances, it can work if you have a dedicated charger for your car at your house and solar panels on your car for when you park. But for most people gas will alwys be the prefered power ource for their cars, until we run out of it.

  For intersting developments in the alternative market do a google search on "Human powered hybrid". Some very intriguing possibilities being developed.

  Now where solar is much better suited is for infrastructure and construction development and support. IF all new construction in efficent areas were built with Solar already installed then the enery demands of the country on finite resources would plummet AND more of that all important cash flow would allow for more spending. (Since the high energy bills would be significantly reduced.

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• Brian Dockter posted at 6:30 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2373

  Gary,

  I'm not saying we shouldn't develop new forms of energy. It's just impossible for now to do it as efficiently as petroleum.

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• Brian Dockter posted at 6:25 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2373

  Oil has already been developed. It is a proven source of power. Solar energy is still in the deveolpment stages. I suggest Gary look at all the solar companies that are bankrupt or struggling to make a profit. Solar energy is free Gary? How's that Solyndra stock performing, Gary?

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• Brian Dockter posted at 6:18 am on Wed, Nov 14, 2012.

  Posts: 2373

  It has only been until just recently that other forms of moving a person from point A to point B have challenged the internal cumbustion engine. Until we can bring down the price of green technologies, oil is king. It has nothing to do with greed. It's economics Gary.

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