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Democratic Party wants to control us

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Posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:00 am

Since Roe v. Wade, 56 million babies (gifts from God) have been murdered under the guise of, “It’s her body, it’s her choice.” We know that not to be true, since the baby is a separate human with its own DNA, heart, brain, etc. The most innocent of life is taken in what should be the safest place on earth — a mother’s womb.

Why can’t I say “it’s my body, it’s my choice” — I don’t want to wear a seat belt? Right now if I don’t “click it,” I get a ticket. It’s my body, it’s my choice, but if I don’t wear helmet on my motorcycle I get a ticket. She murders a baby and gets an “atta boy” from the Democratic left wing.

The left’s agenda is all about controlling us: high gas prices and taxes, uncontrolled debt, IRS scandals, Benghazi (what if Chelsea Clinton or Sasha Obama had been the ambassador? Would Clinton have said, “What does it matter?”), gun control and health care (exempting themselves from the VW plan while they keep their Cadillac plan we pay for).

I believe the number of medical doctors in the Senate is around 12, but none were asked to participate in health care reform. Most who participated were lawyers. Was anything mentioned about frivolous lawsuits? No. Was tort reform included? No.

They protect lawyers making tons of money while trying to limit a doctor’s salary. If a doctor puts herself or himself through medical school and does not have a wealthy family, they’ll be in debt for the rest of their lives. Yet law school is shorter then medical school, and lawyers are limiting what a doctor can make. That is socialism or whatever you want to call it.

We became the best country in the world by the best of the best of the world coming here. The brightest minds came here and we invented just about everything. Now the Democrats, who have nothing to offer, want to create the least of the least so they can garner their vote.

Dennis Vetica


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  • Brenda Johnson posted at 8:40 am on Sun, Jun 30, 2013.

    bjohnson156 Posts: 6

    I believe its the other way around. Its the Republicans that wants to control it all, and the best way to make their sheep think it's the Democrats.

  • John Lucas posted at 12:13 am on Thu, Jun 27, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Nice try but his mind is made up. I think the best thing to do is just not talk about it anymore. Everyone know where they stand on the issue. It is time to be willing to discuss other issues but just ignore him and others on this one.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:20 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    We could be talking about jobs. Republicans should be cooperating to provide work for millions but that is not apparently what you feel is necessary. So if 50,000,000 abortions is fact then there would be that much more you wouldn't be doing anything for. That much more you would want to deny healthcare to. That many more you would want to deny unemployment benefits to. That much more you would want to deny social security to. That much more you would want to deny educational opportunities to. So in reality abortion is not evil to you it is a service that limits your ieffectiveness. Should we look at it this way?

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:42 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    Abortion is all we've got? What else do we need? Since Roe. v. Wade became the law of the land, well over 50,000,000 unborn human beings were deprived of living to their potential outside of the womb. And each and ALL of these abortions were under the direction of the mother; all under her individual so-called "right to choose." In no case was she able to lay the responsibility of her actions on a man. Yes indeed, abortion is a woman's issue alright. So in reality I would state that abortion is all women have got. Frankly, I don't want it - no part of it - but I will continue to do whatever I can within the law to fight against it. If I can turn any discussion into one about the innate evil of abortion, then I will consider that a good thing.

  • John Lucas posted at 9:09 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    well said Steve [smile]

  • John Lucas posted at 8:41 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Exactly. The Republicans only care for the interests of their owners, the corporations.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 7:54 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    You got it John.
    Every state under republican control has two efforts as their sole efforts: one is to restrict abortion rights, birth control and with other womens health issues. The other is restricting voter rights of minorities. Nationally they also focus narrowly on restricting womens health issues and holding hearings solely for th purpose of looking for scandal on the president. Its all geared for the 2014 elections.They have no other useful purpose.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:58 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    Mr Miller
    Hopefully this will help. Life is a difficult thing to define. To me simply a beating heart is not life. It is only potential life. If in the early stages of gestation the fetus is removed from the womb it can not sustain life on its own. If you have no thoughts or self identification what kind of life can there be? I often use the case of Terri Shaivo to illustrate what is contained in the womb.

    From the USA Today "...(Terri Schaivo) ...suffered brain damage in 1990 when a chemical imbalance caused her heart to stop. Florida courts ruled she was in a persistent vegetative state."

    Here is a person who has no thoughts, not aware of her surroundings or people and is kept alive only by feeding tubes. Like the fetus removing the feeding tubes will kill her. Now as harsh as that may sound you have to realize she is already dead. She doesn't have any life other than a heart beat. The tubes were removed and she died. But if you or I were to be honest we would not accept a life where our claim to life is a beating heart. If I can't read, visit with my family and friends, work in my garden or enjoy my wifes cooking there is no life. So define life. Thats why I say there is no life before the first breath. Only the potential for life. No thoughts because that takes life experiences and relationships. You can't even dream with out life experiences.

    Now Terri Schaivos case has continued to have those who revulsed at the idea of removing her tubes (killing her) and feel she should be kept "alive." Why? Can you kill something that is not alive?
    Heres more on Terri Schaivo from CNN

  • John Lucas posted at 6:45 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Really? As long as you have abortion you will never have to do any thinking. That has been apparent for sometime. If you notice on this forum any subject leads to the issue of abortion. That is all you have and is the best you can do.

  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:45 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2670


  • Thomas Heuer posted at 4:45 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    Mr Miller
    This is what makes logical conversation difficult with someone who has already filled themselves with their reactions to disturbing information they want to be angry with. As regards to Kermit Gosnell’s crimes, they were horrific but I can't continue to stew over it since I have only a distant connection as I do with Ariel Castro which I also was disgusted with. I remember the Charles Mansion Tate-La Bianca murders. Awful. I watch the evening news where there is a daily litany of murders, rapes, muggings and kidnappings. It is all disgusting but I at some point have to walk away and move on. You can't carry all of this and stay hyper emotional without effecting your blood pressure. Gosnell is being dealt with by the law there is nothing more we can do. We are only left with our opinion.

    You say you are speaking very factual however you say that "to be an abortionist one has to be a cold blooded killer..." Is this how you feel about an executioner metting out the death penalty as they are about to perform the 500th in Texas? Do you feel the same about the soldiers that volunteered to go to war in Iraq and Afganistan where they killed thousands of civilians (living people) as well as enemy combatants defending their country from a foreigh invasion?

    No you have worked yourself up over this issue to the point of emotional hysteria and can't let it go. As an example you use a juvenile statement like "from you views on sex, we are just animals who “jump” each other without any constraint as we pass on the street." What a hyper exageration of something I did NOT say. I can't in this limited forum spell out the varieties and intricacies of human relationships. I assume you are a man of the world and can fill in the details of courtship.

    And your accusation "materialism is more important (to me) than responsibility and family?" No if you want to speak "factually" you have to realize most relationships and marriages break up over money. Thats a fact. Your use of the word materialism implies stuff: iPhones, TVs, video games, etc which are hardly more important than relationshi[s but thats what comes from emotionalism it is over reactive and logic is set aside.

    This is why you can't speak factually.

    Again I don't understand your "The difference between you and me is that I am living it, but for you this is just ideology and theory." How are you living "it" as opposed to me. How is this ideology and theory to me but you don't claim any of this is part of your ideology. Theory? I can't make you or anyone else accept abortion that don't want them nor would I want to. I am male, I've had my kids so no matter what the law decides it really doesn't effect me or you.

    I was against the war in Iraq so the thousands killed and the pent up anger by those invaded that now want revenge on more Americans I have no ability to control or change so I've moved on and hope I have a big enough government to thwart attacks.

    I am a human being with an opinion So I have no idea what your "you are going to use the ol’ progressive “this is just a one-off” argument, nothing systemic here, right?" means. Since people consider me a progressive, I guess, I should probably know but I don't.

  • Ed Miller posted at 4:30 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    Ed946 Posts: 70

    Mr. Heuer,
    Last go. If the fetus nothing other than a lump of flesh, a nonhuman, then why do they have to kill it as a part of the procedure? Since they have to kill it, that means the doctor is no longer a doctor swore to preserve life. Therefore, all abortionists are Gosnells to one degree or another. In the end, perhaps he is the more honest of the group.

  • Ed Miller posted at 4:21 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    Ed946 Posts: 70

    Mr. Lucas,
    Is that the best you can do? I would say you are not thinking since all you have to add is an insult.

  • John Lucas posted at 12:50 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Abortion is the alibi and excuse that Conservatives use to not think.

  • Ed Miller posted at 12:02 pm on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    Ed946 Posts: 70

    Mr. Heuer,

    Emotional? Give me a break! I was very factual. Certainly, Kermit Gosnell’s crimes deserve some emotion, if any is appropriate. Ok, you are going to use the ol’ progressive “this is just a one-off” argument, nothing systemic here, right? Give me another break; to be an abortionist one has to be a cold blooded killer, not a medical doctor. Others have surfaced in the past and others will in the future.

    Whether abortion is legal or not is not the point – remember the Holocaust was legal in Germany, but that did not make it right. The difference between you and me is that I am living it, but for you this is just ideology and theory.

    Let’s see, from you views on sex, we are just animals who “jump” each other without any constraint as we pass on the street. Plus, materialism is more important than responsibility and family? Is that what it has come down to? Are you reading your own stuff?

    Ok, based on your response to video demonstration (drama aside) of the fetus’ survive reaction to the abortionist, you are, sorry to say, beyond reason…

  • John Lucas posted at 10:54 am on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The facts are very clear that the United States has been going downhill since the ascension of Conservatism under Ronald Reagan. This ideology which appeals the the baser instincts of man such as greed, anger, resentment and fear will always bring down a nation as it it will bring down a single person. The greatest flowering of America took place between 1932 and 1970. It is no accident that the Liberals were in charge as it is no accident that when Conservatives run things it all blow up.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:43 am on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669


  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:40 am on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    I couldn't agree more.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:37 am on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    Ed Miller
    Kermit Gosnell is a monster. I've said that here before.

    Mr Gosnell is now the poster child for anti abortionists because he is a low life monster. Your emotionalism doesn't allow you to see the difference between him and safe practitioners. As long as he is held as your example of abortion "practitioners" you will never see straight. He was not a cultivation of our society any more than Charles Manson or the sick Ariel Castro that kidnapped and held the three women in Connecticutt for a decade. You may like him since he forced a child to be born. So please don't take your emotionalized logic and paint your worst picture of me saying what Kermit did was OK by me. Killing a newborn is infanticide. Performing illegal abortions is against the law. If someone wants to hate something or someone its easy to find someone and paint them as evil. Its like some who use the word liberal here. Everyone likes a target for their anger.Thats the same as calling someone a witch (which never existed but it got people jazzed up for starting bonfires). It 's what Hitler did for Jews. Even Jesus suffered from preconceived notions. Once yo paint with the evil brush you now can justify the most horrific acts against them.

    Sex is not a mechanical operation like deciding oh I think I will do the laundry today. Lets see I will need some soap and bleach OK I think I'm ready now. Sex is one of the most powerful urges (and where would propagation be without it). In the wild babies are born and have to walk and keep up with the herd from day one. But they are not going to aspire to be more tnan lame beasts looking for food.

    A human baby is dependent for long periods by comparison and has the potential to aspire to be a number of things and what parent doesn't want to give their children the best opportunities. Now there are those occassions where one partner says I love you to the other in a heated passion (I'm not sure anti abotionists understand love, desire and passion) and signals an OK lets do it. It has happened where one partner after sex decides no they changed their mind. I was drunk, I was foolish, out of my mind. Think what you will of this, it happens none the less. Without the support of another person the prospects for being all you can be diminishes for the prospective newborn and mother. Employment is iffy, child care is expensive and conservatives stigmatize you if you get what little public assistance is left available today.

    Now you say you have three members of your family "who were all excellent candidates for abortion ". I can't relate to candidates for abortion since that would suggest they were unwanted. If they are wanted then you have made your choice making them unlikely "candidates". Now by ranking using the term "excellent" suggests there is a heirarchy other than wanted or unwanted. There is no "should have been aborted, by today’s standards" that is myth perpetuation you've gotten from your emotionalized fantasy perhaps thinking the worst of "Holywood" scandals. Its monster creating.

    Thousands of couples have had children out of wedlock and chosen to keep the children even if they marry or not. Its the choice that matters. Men marry women who have children of a previous relationship. There is no "todays standards" as opposed to standards of the past. Nothing has changed. Its just what was done in secret is now more open. It is recognized by caring people these things happen. Finger wagging doesn't change it.

    "Standards" suggest there is a menu of situations that manditorily require an abortion. Nothing could be further from the truth. This feeds your "throw away" misconceptions. This and the drama packed video you offer is sure to move those who believe evrything this overly dramatized speaker is saying without proof or verification. Its like watching a Fox news report. It is inconsistent with other videos and pictures I've seen over the years and I'm over 60 yrs.

    I would not expect in your circleof friends to have ideas that stray much from your beliefs. But I am proud your asking around. My idea is not new and it is shared by some religious groups.

    I don't know if you were the kind of person that had as a young man a life of experimentation with sex, intoxicants or mischief and like others in history found the time a waste and found god and now can easily say we should all practice "personal responsibility." A kind of do as I say and not as I did kind of thing. I don't know. But then if not what do you know of the lives outside of your circle. I spent time in a childrens home in my youth and realized the variety of circumstances other people find themselves in. I've also been in the field of mental health where it exposes you to other lives that aren't so easily encapsulated in your simple homogenous landscape.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:00 am on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    You must be joking, right, Mr. Dockter? Conservatives are much more likely to be proponents of abstenance (sic) than Liberals?

    Perhaps you forget one of the most prominent conservative women who ended up with a pregnant, unmarried daughter during her vice-presidential campaign?

    My daughter used to joke about many of her religious friends who were getting married at 18 and 19 - not because they wanted to get married, but because their religion told them they couldn't have sex outside marriage. Needless to say, most of them have a couple of kids and are now divorced.

    I'm really tired of the ridiculous claims I've heard in this forum that conservatives have high morals while liberals have no morals. That must be why there are so many sex scandals amongst Republican lawmakers and Evangelical preachers, right?

  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:41 am on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    Why are the liberals blamed? The last decade has seen a very right leaning Supreme Court yesterday’s decision to gut voters rights along with decisions like Citizens United and the recent decision to allow the collection of DNA from arrestees, an affront to the 4th amendment not that there was anything left of the 4th amendment after Reagan and the "War on Drugs" eviscerated it. Further proof that the Supreme Court has been right leaning for some time comes with the awarding of the presidential election to Bush without actually counting votes. So with this right leaning Supreme Court why haven’t those loud voices on the right, screaming that the liberals are to blame, brought a case to the Supreme Court to challenge Roe v. Wade? I think that the right is just fine with the status quo they don't have to do any of the heavy lifting to change the law of the land and they can still blame Roe V. Wade on the liberals. I think it is time for the right wingers to own a bit of Roe V. Wade they have had plenty of time and the opportunity to change it and have done nothing.

  • Ed Miller posted at 6:44 am on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    Ed946 Posts: 70

    Mr. Heuer,

    Have you heard of an abortionist named Kermit Gosnell. Gosnell was convicted of murder last month for gross medical malpractice leading to the deaths of a patient and seven newborns? The newborns were killed after being born alive after Gosnell botched their abortions. This “doctor” was a barbarian what has been cultivated by our society’s selfishness and excesses and is not unique.

    By your logic, the newborns killed were just fetuses and throwaways but they were born alive, oops, that make them babies! Our wonderful president voted multiple times against allowing humane treatment of newborns resulting from botched abortions. Says something ill of his values.

  • Ed Miller posted at 6:07 am on Wed, Jun 26, 2013.

    Ed946 Posts: 70

    Mr. Heuer,

    First, everyone has a choice about having a baby before having sex - please do not use the rape as misdirection away from the discussion. That couples do not use protection and are selfish enough not to carry the baby full term is what it is - despicable.

    I have three people in my family who were all excellent candidates for abortion and, no, they are not cats. We have an adapted daughter who is the result of a rape and an adapted son who is the product of marital infidelity. In addition, my son stupidly had unprotected sex with a woman he did not marry. However, their offspring, who should have been aborted, by today’s standards, is an incredibly sweet and intelligent girl that everyone adores – she is blessing even if for all the wrong reasons. That our “society” views her as a “throw-away” sickens me and indicates that we have degraded down below the level of the Hitler’s Nazis – our Holocaust has now killed more human life than they did.

    Before you write-off a fetus as just a lump of flesh, view a video of an ultrasound taken during an abortion. If it does not turn your stomach, then there is no hope for you as a human being. Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX7goxsip6Y

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 11:41 pm on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    What does “readily available” mean with regard to birth control? Men have access at virtually every pharmacy, supermarket and 7/11 from sea to shining sea. As far as women are concerned, there are many facilities just like Planned Parenthood that offer birth control - and depending upon one’s ability to pay, they’re often free. Or does “readily available” mean always free and that they must be made available through hospitals and clinics operated by faith-based organizations that believe life begins at conception?

    Birth control should begin and end with two words: “personal responsibility.” Or are we as human beings considered unable to control our base instincts long enough to ensure that our actions won’t result in the creation of a fetus/unborn child?

    By the way, in my conversations with people who believe that abortion is a reasonable action for women to take, except for one individual on this forum not one has ever put forth the notion that the “thing” growing in a woman’s womb is not “living.” Of course it is. The only thing it lacks is the right to life, liberty and its own pursuits of happiness; it’s simply not a citizen.

  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:44 pm on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2865

    But Heaven forbid I deny anyone their Constitutional right to express themselves. Especially in a sexual manner. Not to mention their Constitutional right to express themselves all the way to the abortion clinic.

  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:29 pm on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2865

    Ms. Bobin stated:

    If right-wing conservatives actually believed in birth control and making birth control readily available, we wouldn't have the need for so many abortions.

    -There's an element of truth to this. However, Conservatives are much more likely to be proponents of abstenance than Liberals. That being said, there wouldn't be the need for such readily available birth control if you're taught to keep your pants up. Unlike liberals, who believe if it feels good do it and worry about the consequences later. Actually, Liberals believe there are no consequences if one is promiscuious and using birth control. And it's not their fault if a pregnancy occurs. Just blame it on the right-wing Conservatives for not making birth control readily available at every street corner in a given city.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:38 pm on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    "...weather a cat or dog..." is that like its raining cats and dogs?

    Got any pictures (or any other likeness) of god. That could go along way toward backing up one of your emotionally charged statements.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:22 pm on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    At some point the anti abortionists discovered if they call a fetus a baby it finds a whole slew rabid-eyed, hysterically-emotionalized, slobbering ninneys that Barnum once proclaimed are born every minute.

    A fetus is not a baby. There is no life before the first breath. Only with the first breath does the newborn experience self awareness as well as the awareness of others. That is when life begins. Before that they are only a potential for life. Sometimes they make it sometimes they don't (on their own). An abortion is a medical procedure like most other medical procedures.

    So if you want a baby go have one of your own. If you don't want one thank your lucky stars (or god if thats your persuasion) you still have a choice. But the emotionally gullible are trying to take the right away. So who is trying to control everybody?

    And what on earth is a trivial lawsuit? And who decides?

    And democrats have nothing to offer? Really? If anything gets done it is by the democrats. What are the republicans doing? Oh I know, fighting in state legislatures and congress to limit Roe V Wade and birth control. And then there's the repeated votes to repeal Obamacare (a conservative idea) which will never go anywhere. Oh yeah and hearings after hearings hoping to find some slight they can turn into an emotionally charged scandle for their base against the president. So what has this produced? Nothing. Nada. A waste of time.

    The republicans only hope is that come 2014 the racist and bigoted abomination called the south is now free to rig elections and block voters thanks to todays SCOTUS decision. After all it is the only way republicans can win elections. They sure don't give us any compelling vision unless you are a big corporation, hate half of Americans and dislike women and minorities.

  • John Lucas posted at 4:31 pm on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730


  • Joanne Bobin posted at 4:24 pm on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Since this letter is not about cats, I run the risk of being off-topic. Apparently, neither of the two gentlemen below has owned a cat or knows much about them.

    More cats have their litters aborted when they are taken in to be spayed than you might imagine because irresponsible cat owners wait until it's too late to have their pets spayed.

    Responsible owners get their cats spayed and/or keep them as indoor only, like my three - all rescued as kittens from people standing on corners trying to unload a litter of kittens.

    If human beings acted like responsible pet owners, we wouldn't have a need for so many abortions. If right-wing conservatives actually believed in birth control and making birth control readily available, we wouldn't have the need for so many abortions.

    Back to cats, a friend of mine told me that her father, in order to keep down the cat population on his ranch (instead of spaying all the stray cats around) used to dig a hole in the orchard and bury the kittens alive.

    So much for treating cats better than human babies.

  • Walter Chang posted at 4:20 pm on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1184

    "do whatever I can"

    The blogging will continue.


  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:14 pm on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    Mr. Hillyard, your comparison of cats and humans and how liberals seemingly assign more value to the unborn litter vs. one human unborn child is indeed a conundrum. And until relatively recently, the Democrat (liberal) Party always presented itself as more caring and loving. Frankly, I'm at a loss to understand them; so much so that I’ve given up trying. This is why I will continue to stand against their ideology and do whatever I can legally to reverse many of these horrid decisions. I just hope that as a society we're not too late to turn ourselves around.

  • Mark Hillyard posted at 11:15 am on Tue, Jun 25, 2013.

    Mark Hillyard Posts: 11

    Dennis Vetica, I hear you, but do enough people really know or care? California keeps voting in some of the most bizarre creatures to rule over us.
    A good starting point for any who care is to join Joseph Farrah's Day of Prayer coming up this Sept. 11, 2013 http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/a-day-of-prayer-and-fasting/

    Check it out and help this Country return to a more sane approach to respect for Life, Liberty, and Justice for all. Even those little defenseless ones.

    Have you ever wondered weather a cat or dog lover would abort the litter inside the mommy cat's belly...but think nothing of aborting a Human Child who is, in our Christian understanding, "Made in the image and likeness of God Himself?"


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