Lodinews.com

default avatar
Welcome to the site! Login or Signup below.
|
||
Logout|My Dashboard

Obamacare will cause more loss in American jobs

Print
Font Size:
Default font size
Larger font size

Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 6:35 am, Wed Dec 26, 2012.

According to www.outsourcing-law.com/tag/obamacare, the new Obamacare legislation does not apply to services rendered outside the USA. The universal health care insurance mandate of Obamacare cannot apply outside the United States. In addition, on any given month, the mandatory health insurance coverage does not apply to U.S. citizens residing abroad (under Section 911(d) of the Internal Revenue Code) or in U.S. territories and possessions.

So what does this mean for Americans and jobs in United States? It means Obamacare will impact and reduce American jobs and increase globalization and offshore outsourcing.

Why is that; wider gap, more labor arbitrage. By increasing the costs and regulatory burdens on employers hiring individuals lawfully in the United States, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) widens the gap between U.S. labor costs and foreign labor costs. Quite literally, it is built upon a tax on businesses and a tax on individuals. Accordingly, it is predictable that Obamacare will accelerate offshoring and globalization of talent pools of enterprises large and small.

According to this company, the costs, complexity, bureaucratic burdens and overhead, and proliferation of employment litigation associated with mandatory health care rules will inspire entrepreneurs to outsource and offshore everything possible. Obamacare will accelerate the offshoring of both low-level functions (such as non-voice customer relationship management, credit card claims processing, mortgage origination and administration, and other routine business functions) and high-level functions (such as R&D, market research, accounting and tax administration, cash management, etc.).

Darrell Baumbach

Acampo

Rules of Conduct

  • 1 Use your real name. You must register with your full first and last name before you can comment. (And don’t pretend you’re someone else.)
  • 2 Keep it clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually oriented language.
  • 3 Don’t threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
  • 4 Be truthful. Don't lie about anyone or anything. Don't post unsubstantiated allegations, rumors or gossip that could harm the reputation of a person, company or organization.
  • 5 Be nice. No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.
  • 6 Stay on topic. Make sure your comments are about the story. Don’t insult each other.
  • 7 Tell us if the discussion is getting out of hand. Use the ‘Report’ link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
  • 8 Share what you know, and ask about what you don't.
  • 9 Don’t be a troll.
  • 10 Don’t reveal personal information about other commenters. You may reveal your own personal information, but we advise you not to do so.
  • 11 We reserve the right, at our discretion, to monitor, delete or choose not to post any comment. This may include removing or monitoring posts that we believe violate the spirit or letter of these rules, or that we otherwise determine at our discretion needs to be monitored, not posted, or deleted.

Welcome to the discussion.

87 comments:

  • Bobcatbob Ingram posted at 6:48 am on Sun, Jan 6, 2013.

    99er Posts: 119

    weather/wheather

     
  • Bobcatbob Ingram posted at 6:46 am on Sun, Jan 6, 2013.

    99er Posts: 119

    Darrell, You slippery rascal You ! .... After months of attacking 'health care reform' I was hoping You would answer my question as to weather "we the public" are paying for YOUR health insurance. ?

    I asked that question of You on Dec 29 because You had made continual attacks upon Health Care reform and as of this Sunday morning You had not answered.

    ....which leads me to believe You are an honest man who does not wish to lie about himself.

     
  • Michael Thompson posted at 10:02 am on Wed, Jan 2, 2013.

    winston Posts: 97

    As for Obamacare, it is time to move on to another issue Darrell.

    The Supreme Court upheld this legislation, and the key vote was John Roberts who wrote the opinion for the majority. This person is hardly a left wing liberal Darrell!

    How often do you and other Tea party members read the paper Darrell?

     
  • Michael Thompson posted at 9:56 am on Wed, Jan 2, 2013.

    winston Posts: 97

    Darrell,
    I am glad that the Republicans took Obama's offer on the fiscal cliff. Did they have any other option? I bet Tea Party members like you will try to vote Boehner out of the role of Speaker for voting for this bill.
    I am still waiting for a prominent Republican (other than Jeb Bush or Jon Huntsmann) to tell the Tea Party and the fringe right to go jump off the cliff in a same way that Bill Clinton chided the extreme left wing of his party in the early 1990's. It would show that they had cajones, and voters might actually start thinking about voting for the Republican party again! What dirty laundry does the Tea Party and Grover Norquist have over Republican Senators and Congresional representatives? Let us know Darrell!
    A quick question for you Darrell-- would you take the Clinton era tax rates if we had the same strong economy when Bill Clinton was President?


     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:33 pm on Sat, Dec 29, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    I would be "happy" if the majority rather than the minority weren't oblivious to the fact.

     
  • Bobcatbob Ingram posted at 10:30 am on Sat, Dec 29, 2012.

    99er Posts: 119

    Andrew Liebich, why do You seem so happy that America's economy is in the toilet ?

     
  • Bobcatbob Ingram posted at 10:28 am on Sat, Dec 29, 2012.

    99er Posts: 119

    Well written information, Thanks Micheal.

     
  • Bobcatbob Ingram posted at 10:26 am on Sat, Dec 29, 2012.

    99er Posts: 119

    Hey Darrell, You talk like a man with great medical insurance ! We the citizens paying for that ??

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:41 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    [thumbdown][wink]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:41 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    McNerney's aid stated...The election is over, and for the most part Democrats won. Democrats campaigned on "spending cuts" along with raising taxes on the wealthy


    [lol][whistling][lol][beam] Now that is funny... Democrats ran on spending cuts.... [lol]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:35 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    McNerney's campaign aid stated...Yes, I will trust the Chief Medicare actuary over you Darell...

    Bizarre... Never suggested you trust me. Where did that come from? I stated that many projections are based on variables that produce false projections.

    Like I said, The actuaries stated years ago that we would never pay more than 4% but is now close to 15% for social security taxes. So obviously, Your actuary is making no more than a wild guess what will happen for the next decade or two.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 5:43 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    The US economy is already over the fiscal cliff and falling at an increasing rate.

    Many fiscal cliff narratives have incessantly talked about tax increases/decreases, spending, debt, deficits and the intransigence of the President or the Republicans (mainly Republicans) to compromise. With compromise a deal to move the country forward on important economic issues can be attained. Certainly future economic performance will be significantly affected by many of the outcomes related to the cliff negotiations. Yet the narratives seldom mention the Obama administration’s past or current record on economic issues…a dismal report card that demonstrates no sustainable success on any level over the past four years.

    Here is a sampling of statistical evidence that the Obama economy is already in a free-fall.

    http://www.bea.gov/national/index.htm

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 5:31 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Mr. Thompson,
    While it is positive that the PPACA requires coverage of people with pre-existing conditions and prohibits lifetime caps, it can’t control what people pay for insurance, because it doesn’t limit actual premiums, which have risen 13% on average since the Act was passed! [sleeping]

    By January 2014, the PPACA will require insurance companies to list their prices on competitive exchanges. In Obama-theory, this is supposed to reduce premiums via competition. But what if, say, only three companies control nearly all of the premiums? Consider the fact that it costs the same $3 to extract your money from a Chase, Bank of America or Citigroup ATM (if you don’t get it directly from the firm you bank at.) They constitute a monopoly that defies anti-trust inspection (thank you, Department of Justice.) What incentive would any of them have to charge less? None. That’s why they don’t.

    The http://www.healthcare.gov website says that under the PPACA, the life of the Medicare Trust Fund will be extended to 2024 as a result of reducing waste, fraud, abuse, and slowing cost growth. President Obama promised to reduce Medicare fraud 50% by 2012 according to the site – but if he did, he forgot to mention it during the campaign period.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:25 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Your comment about medicare actuaries I think applies yo you.

     
  • Michael Thompson posted at 4:07 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    winston Posts: 97

    Yes, I will trust the Chief Medicare actuary over you Darell.He has earned Fellow Status among the Society of Actuaries. In case you don't know, ONLY fellows can sign off on an insurer's loss reserves and their financial health. This encompasses passing eleven exams administered by the society. I do not think you could pass one of their exams! ROFL! Yes, I think this individual knows more than both of us Darrell on the solvency of Medicare and the plus and minuses of Obamacare.

    As far as the economy, there are jobs being currently left open as Americans cannot fill these jobs (as they are located in professional services, engineering or health care), as they do not have the skills. In addition, Congress caps the number of H-1 visas that would allow foreign workers to fill these jobs. The addition of foreign workers would stimulate our economy indirectly as these jobs stay in the US, and these workers spend their money supporting American businesses and not businesses overseas. On both fronts, I am glad that I voted for a President that cares enough about education and immigration reform and has put political capital behind both.

    Face it Darrell. The election is over, and for the most part Democrats won. Democrats campaigned on spending cuts along with raising taxes on the wealthy, and the Republicans campaigned against any tax cuts. The Democrats won the White House by a wide margin, increased their majority in the Senate (even in liberal bastions like North Dakota and Montana!) and gained seats in the House.
    I think the country as a whole prefer the President's vision over the alternative.

    If I were the GOP house, I would take the President's compromise offer of raising taxes on those over $400,000 or something similar as Senator Kaine wants to do (raising taxes on incomes over $500,000). If liberals like Tom Coburn, Jeb Bush and Jon Huntsmann can live with this deal (3-4 dollars of spending cuts for every dollar of tax increases), I think you and the rest of the Tea Party can as well.

    I'd love to type some more, but I really have to drive McNerney to the airport before Boehner and the tea party drive America off the fiscal cliff!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:01 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    All any corporation has to do to avoid the tax burdens Obamacare inflicts is to ship jobs over seas and reduce the hours they pay full time employees.... Any business that has considered this as an option before Obamacare is now highly motivated.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:27 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Election Results Mean Less Jobs Due to Obamacare
    Obama's re-election will result in the medical device industry losing 43,000 jobs.
    As a result of President Obama’s re-election, thousands of jobs are expected to be lost due to the massive tax hikes on individuals and businesses contained in Obamacare. Many businesses have anticipated the looming tax hikes by shedding employees and/or reducing their hours.


    http://www.atr.org/election-results-less-jobs-due-obamacare-a7342

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:23 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Top 5 Obama Donor Cuts 1,000 Jobs over ObamaCare
    November 14, 2012 By Daniel Greenfield Comments (21)

    Jon Stryker is heir to the Stryker Corporation, one of the largest medical device and equipment manufacturers in the world. Stryker’s grandfather was the surgeon who invented the mobile hospital bed. The company now sells $8.3 billion worth of hospital beds, artificial joints, medical cameras, and medical software every year.

    Stryker, a member of the Forbes 400 list, was one of the top five donors to the Obama campaign. Having donated $2 million to the Priorities USA Action super PAC, Stryker also gave $66,000 in contributions to Obama and the Democrat Party.

    Stryker Corporation has announced that it will close its facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs next month. It will also counter the medical device tax in Obamacare by eliminating 5% of their global workforce, an estimated 1,170 positions.

    Last June, while the nation awaited the Supreme Court’s decision on the constitutionality of the individual mandate, Stryker Corp. announced that it was tying plans to slash 5% of its global workforce to the tax if the law was upheld. The company would do this as part of an effort to realize $100 million in annual productivity gains to offset the blow when the excise tax went into effect in 2013.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:04 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mcnerney'scampaign aid is just as misguided as Mr Lucas who appears to enjoy McNerney's improbable fantasy... In reality, There is no possible way to determine such a conclusion.

    Maybe these are the same actuaries that claimed the Social Security tax would never go higher than 4%... but now is around 15%...or that Obamacare would reduce the cost of healthcare but now, is obvious that it will cost trillions of dollars extra over time.

    Clearly, anyone who takes medicare actuairies and their wild predictions as truth is not much a thinking person.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:49 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [beam] [thumbup]

     
  • Michael Thompson posted at 2:44 pm on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    winston Posts: 97

    Darrell,
    According to Medicare actuaries (who have analyzed this plan much more than either of us), there will be substantial reductions in the cost of Medicare and the solvency will be increased. How is that a losing scenario? In addition, the same reductions in Medicare costs under Obamacare were used in Paul Ryan's health care plan. It takes real cajones to throw someone under the bus when you want to do the same thing. Isn't that correct?
    As far as offshoring of jobs, this comes back to elementary economics. If you have read the priniciple of comparative advantage, resources will shift where there is the greatest utility. This was happening well before Obamacare. For example, reading and diagnosis of x-rays is often outsourced to radiologists in India. The same is true with advanced legal document preparation.
    The key to having a vibrant economy which "lifts all boats" is the value of education. I am glad that we have a President who appointed an Education Secretary (Arne Duncan) that has revamped educational standards to make them more competitive and useful to students. This plan (Race to the Top) has won plaudits from Republicans such as Jeb Bush and Tom Coburn. But I guess not from you Darrell!
    I have to run Darrell. I have to drive McNerney to the airport so he can be in Washington D.C. on Sunday so John Boehner and company do not drive us over the fiscal cliff!
    You can always drop in and see me. I live in that big empty house he "rents" in Brookside.


     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:47 am on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    How does one ignore the fact that Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf testified before the House Budget Committee that the Affordable Care Act would cost this country 800,000 jobs?
    [sleeping]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:31 am on Fri, Dec 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew, Mr Lucas is not interested in facts but in spreading rumor and gossip. Maybe it is liberal doctrine that if you ignore reality long enough, it will simply go away... life in "Lucas World"

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:57 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    A rational person would read the CBO report provided (http://cbo.gov/publication/43080) and digest the fact that the costs associated with implementing Obamacare over the next ten years are more than double what the Obama Administration claimed.

    An irrational person will fail miserably to digest the information provided from the CBO and simply continue to sleepwalk through life functioning as a cog.
    [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:45 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    No, it is the way a rational person looks at it. There was a great political battle over health care. Conservatives did everything in their power to stop Obamacare. They failed. Now individual states will try different things. Those that go with single payer will have the success with it as it delivers the product with cheapest cost and greatest efficiency. It will eventually spread to most states as it did in Canada. It does not take a College degree to see this though it does take some rationality.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:18 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You said the system was not broken but this is old stuff. We won you lost, deal with it. Get ready to deal with states going to single payer because that is where the real savings are. Once that starts to happen it will snowball. It is just too good of a system. This one you will never win.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:08 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...I could go on but any reasonable person would have to say our system was broken and needed fixing

    Mr Lucas is stuck repeating himself again and again. Yes, there were problems that needed fixing... no, we did not need Obamacare to fix 8% of the system that was broken.

    The cost of health care could go down dramatically quickly if governemnt stepped out and elininated expensive mandates.Obamacare increased costs, not decrease.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:02 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    No Mr Lucas, a reasonable person would see that you are comparing apples to oranges.

    Our system of health care is not comparable to other countries. For example, our country spends billions upon billions in mental health care as the Mental Health Parity Act changed law so that many conditions are payable as any other illness. Other countries are limited in how much they spend on mental health.

    In our hositals, we have a 5/1 ratio of nurse to patient where as other countries have anywhere from a 10/13 ratio.

    Our citizens are compensated if there are health care mistakes where as citizens in other countries are not. There are examples after examples.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:33 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    We spend 17.5% of our GDP on healthcare while other developed countries spend 12% and sometimes less which comes out to 750 billion dollars every year. They live longer, have better medical outcomes and cover all their citizens. They do not have people going bankrupt because they get sick and have huge medical bills. I could go on but any reasonable person would have to say our system was broken and needed fixing.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:19 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I agree with you, it is a fact that liberals are delusional.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:16 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...None of your statements negate any of my premises...

    Yet more evidence that Mr Lucas is sleeping through life or blinded to reality....The sentence that mentioned that a minor part of the problem you identified would have easily been corrected without Obamacare negates everything you stated. You are thinking like a truck driver chewing on tobacco rather than someone that understands the complexity of our healthcare system.

    We did not need Obamacare to solve such a minor problem. We did not need Federal control of healthcare to solve the problems that needed fixing. 92% of our country had guaranteed access to heath plans, it was not a broken system.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:20 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    You have already been provided the link to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) that negates your ignorance.
    [sleeping]
    http://cbo.gov/publication/43080


     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:58 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1666

    Nope
    You can't count underinsured (technically insured but little covered or high deductibles)
    You can't count part time employment where hours are restricted to avoid paying benefits.
    Then there are all the self employed, unemployed, day laborers, single moms, etc that don't have coverage

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:22 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    None of your statements negate any of my premises.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:12 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    CONTINUED...

    Lucas Perception #2...For years people went into bankruptcy for getting sick...

    Reality...What is the world does that have to do with Obamacare. Little has changed and people will still file bankruptcies as many people will not be able to afford insurance as Obamacare dramatically increased the premiums. Obamacare does not require insurance but only demands a tax if you do not pay for insurance. The same people that filed for bankruptcy before will still do so now.

    Lucas perception #3... For years millions of Americans died or suffered because they could not get health insurance.
    Reality... Millions? Is not possible to substantiate. Again, a vast majority of people had access to guaranteed issue health insurance and could get it. Mr Lucas is sadly mistaken.
    I for example, can afford insurance and can get it...but choose not to have it. If I get sick, I take on the risk. I will file bankruptcy if needed. There are many people who voluntarily decide to do as I do. If I have to sell my house, that is my problem, not the tax payer.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:11 pm on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Rarely does perception and reality meet in "Lucas world"... let's examine his perceptions...

    Lucas Perception #1... for years people were denied health insurance because of pre-existing conditions.

    Reality... In United States, prior to Obamacare, all employer groups of 2 or more ( 1 boss with 1 employee) were guaranteed health insurance coverage no matter how ill a person is. All HMO's by law must cover pre-existing conditions and could not possibly refuse to pay claims based on pre-existing conditions. PPO Plans did not cover preexisting conditions for the first 6 months, but thereafter by law were covered. All people covered by medical and medicaid had pre-existing conditions covered. All government and private sector employers and employees were guaranteed coverage.

    It was a select few individuals that had difficulty getting insurance and Obamacare was not needed to fix the problem.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:25 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    For years people were denied health insurance because of pre-existing conditions. For years people who had health insurance were denied treatment by health insurance companies. For years people went into bankruptcy for getting sick. For years for millions of American heath insurance was out of reach For years millions of americans died or suffered because they could not get health insurance.

    You said it best sort of

    Exactly! sort of like a woman who is raped and her attacker tells her to enjoy it as there is nothing she can do to stop it... Conservatism in motion.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:50 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...The public will like Obamacare and eventually it will go to single payer and nothing is going to change that.

    Exactly! sort of like a woman who is raped and her attacker tells her to enjoy it as there is nothing she can do to stop it... liberalism in motion.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:47 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Great point Andrew. All lands and businesses located on Indian land ( like Casinos) are not subject to Obamacare as they are exempted. I wonder how many businesses will make deals with owners on Indian land to run their businesses there in order to avoid expensive Federal regulations, mandates and Obamacare.

    So many exemptions... one might wonder why legislators who write the law themselves so often emempt themselves from what they expect others to live by.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:58 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    -should (whoops)

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:57 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    If the "Left" really wants to convince people Obamacare is a great thing, shouldn't their first step should be to stop giving exemptions from the law?
    [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:45 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I am a Liberal. What you call my delusions are backed up by facts and reality which says something about what you consider "delusions". The public will like Obamacare and eventually it will go to single payer and nothing is going to change that. Fox viewership is way down and slipping as we speak.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:31 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Please put your thinking cap on Mr Lucas... their is a very large difference between mortality rates of a society as a whole and rationing health care on elderly.

    It is a fact that NIST, which is the health care board in England rations health care. They deny services to people when doctors diagnose that a patient has less than 5 years to live. It is a fact that there are long waiting periods of 3 years or more in single payer systems for people over 65. It is a fact that many drugs and treatments you can easily get in United States is banned in single payer systems in order to save money.

    Liberals can stick their head in the sand and pretend all they want... it is so cute to see a liberal happy with "his" delusions...

    Oh Mr Lucas... just what did you think the 15 member panel in Obamacare was responsible for?... you are sooo blind.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:20 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell said:
    national healthcare is only cheaper if they ration care like they do in England and Canada so people will die instead of getting the medical care they need.

    Please explain why people live longer in these countries. Why do they statistically have better medical outcomes the we do. Why are their health systems rated higher than ours?

    The fact is that more people die for lack of healthcare in our country by a large margin. It is not even close. We ration care here and millions of people are denied needed medical care every day.

    Your statement is false in its conclusion

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:58 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I can imagine that a person who identifies himself as a red neck trucker would have a hard time accepting reality...

    You also misquoted my statistic... I stated that of all people who did not graduate from high school, and also voted, voted for Obama. Just ask anyone that does not have the ability or brains to take care of themselves and depend on government to live.. they in mass voted for Obama... liberalism in motion.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:52 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    No Mr Lucas, the conclusions you draw have nothing to do with what I advocate. Your imagination is running wild and your logic is non-existent. Stop putting words in my mouth.

    I simply stated that liberals want cradle to grave forced liberal programs that give no choice to people to decide how they want to live their lives.

    You then deny you advocate cradle to crave forced government programs then criticize me for not accepting what you desire to shove down American's throat.

    There are many things in life that are cheaper Mr Lucas... but national healthcare is only cheaper if they ration care like they do in England and Canada so people will die instead of getting the medical care they need. They also limit law suits so that someone that is harmed by poor medical services cannot easily sue the government for compensation.

    To deny you support cradle to crave forced Federal government mandates, protections and laws is simply at best absurd and more likely a result of your blindness to anything not liberal.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:30 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I notice you did not have any argument about the statement I made except the nonsense about "trained seal articulated the liberal perception of reality". The reason is that is all you got. You cannot argue about these discredited ideas that Conservatives have put out there as real and the truth. The reason is simple because they are not real and they are not the truth. LNS has really hurt you with this new policy When all you got is personal attacks and that is taken away from you the going gets a little rough.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:23 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are so right in saying some people are Pavlovian in their thinking. The best example is those that listen to the Conservative entertainment media especially Fox news. Did I mention that studies show that those that listen to Fox news are less informed than those who do not listen to the news? This is what happens when one listens to propaganda all day.

    PS. I do not believe your statistic that 70% of all Obama voters did graduate from high school. Obama did win 64% of non high school graduates but your statistic is obvious nonsense.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:11 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Your position on healthcare is nothing short of amazing. You advocate a system that does not cover everyone, is horribly inefficient, costs more than any other country on the planet, drives people into bankruptcy, causes unnecessary death and suffering and enriches the middleman(healthcare insurance companies) all in the name of "Freedom". I know to you this is "Good". When given the facts any reasonable person would have to disagree. Why Conservatives want to shove this monstrosity of a healthcare system down peoples throat is beyond me when the world is full of examples of how to do it cheaper with much better outcomes. Liberals do not need protection from Conservative thinking but the public surely does.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:29 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr. Lucas stated…No, we(liberals) do not want to create a nanny life from cradle to grave… then in the same breath contradicted himself by saying” What we want is to cover “EVERYONE” in mandatory Federal National healthcare system from cradle to grave.

    Funny how liberals cannot comprehend the most simple of concepts. They need protection from themselves.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:04 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Did fellow Obama supporter Jeff Tillett's post at 10:41 am on Fri, Dec 14 not confirm Darrell's contention?
    [sleeping]

    http://cdn-media.nationaljournal.com/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=23831

    P.S. Just curious...
    If one is unaware that Anita Dunn, Obama White House Communications Director said, “Very rarely did we communicate through the press anything that we didn’t absolutely control.” or that Helen Thomas said, "Obama's control of the press was worse than Nixon" is one "less informed" or just plain stupid? [lol][lol][lol]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:37 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [smile] [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:16 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1666

    Way to go John fighting the good fight.
    Keep on keepin on

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:09 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1666

    John how about;
    Sarah Palin would make a good vice president
    Mit Romney would make a good president
    Ronald Reagan ended the cold war
    Private industry can solve all problems in the economy and therefore all world woes
    Anything can be cut in the budget except defense
    Ten commandments in the courts will reduce crime
    Every problem in the world has a military solution
    If you call people names like idiot, obamanoids, imbeciles, etc you will win them over to the conservative cause
    Call entire races and one gender lazy moochers you will win them over to the conservative cause.
    Newqt Gingrich is an intelligent man
    All welfare workers are able bodied and just out to milkthe system
    All unemployment benefits are keeping able bodied workers from going back to work
    Union workers are not as productive as nonunion workers
    Founding fatherws envisioned a christian theocracy in America
    All people arrested are guilty
    All people convicted got what they deserved despite evidence or lack of
    Women won't get pregnant if raped
    Women have nonlegitimate rapes a lot of times
    Business could run harmonious with societywithout regulations
    This is conservative thought off the top of my head and if I really tried hard there would be more.
    [sad]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:23 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Don't forget the 18 Democrat senators and senators-elect that sent Majority Leader Harry Reid a letter asking for “a delay in the implementation” of the Obamacare medical device tax.
    [lol]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:03 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Heuer stated…To use globalization as a scare tactic is misleading.

    Scare Tactics says Mr. Heuer? Brings to mind that saying ’ignorance is bliss’.

    01. A New York medical device maker announced last week that they would have to outsource jobs to Mexico in anticipation of ObamaCare’s tax on medical devices.
    02. Some Welch Allyn accounting jobs will move to Mexico Published: Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 4:12 PM Updated: Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 4:37 PM…… Welch Allyn to address the new “onerous” U.S. Medical Device Tax scheduled to take effect next year under the Affordable Care Act, the company said. Chadderdon provided more details about the company’s plan to cut 275 jobs across the board, or about 10 percent of its worldwide workforce, over the next three years.
    03. BS HAVE ALREADY BEEN OUTSOURCED DUE TO THE HEART ATTACK TAX:“Cook Medical is no longer planning to open a U.S. factory a year. Boston Scientific, planning for a more than $100 million charge against earnings in 2013, recently built a $35 million research and development facility in Ireland and is building a $150 million factory in China. (Capital goes where it is welcome and stays where it is well-treated.) Stryker Corp., based in Michigan, blames the tax for 1,000 layoffs. Zimmer, based in Indiana, is laying off 450 and taking a $50 million charge against earnings. Medtronic expects an annual charge against earnings of $175 million.” (George Will, “Taxing Jobs Out of Existence,” The Washington Post, 5/9/2012)

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:00 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Now, Darrell, studies do not show what your are saying. All the studies show that people who watch Fox News are less informed than people who watch no news at all. The talking points I listed below are examples of of this. Remember what the guy in the Bush Administration said, " We create our own reality". The conservative media entertainment complex just puts out what the Corporations they represent talking points. The people who listen to this nonsense was up to about 40% but people are catching on and that is slowly dropping. The right wing echo chamber is losing its grip.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:31 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Examples of Conservative thinking:

    Global warming is a hoax
    US health care system best in the world
    If you cut taxes on the rich they will create millions of jobs

    The only problem with above is the facts and reality does not support these Conservative ideas

    Some other beauties
    These massacres are caused by no prayer in schools
    Hurricanes Katrina punishment for Gays having a parade

    There are many others. Any of my Liberal friends have some more examples of these Conservative "thoughts"?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:28 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Heuer stated...The bigger threat to American jobs is not obamacare but education

    Mr Heuer may have a good point! With Obama getting 70 % of the vote by people who failed to graduate from high school, liberal policies and legislation like Obamacare are implemented without their voters able to comprehend what they are voting for. Ignorance is a means to success when it comes to liberals.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:13 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1666

    Excellent post Andy
    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:10 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1666

    It has already been projected that there is a need for more Doctors, specialists, nurses, ancillary staff and administrative staff that will be needed to implement ACA (Obamacare). So that will be a lot of good paying new jobs.

    To use globalization as a scare tactic is misleading. Not all jobs are easily moved off shore.
    The bigger threat to American jobs is not obamacare but education. As long as we want to demonize science and math and not support elementary and higher education (ala Santorum) the rest of the world will continue to pass us by. Three million jobs go begging because we don't have workers with the necessary skills. Gone are the days of a lot of "shovel ready jobs."

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:05 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    you are the pro...[whistling]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:04 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    [thumbup] you are so right

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:57 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I believe in evolution. Each day goes by and adds more to what makes up reality... Time warp? 2010?

    Welcome back Steve. I have missed your inexplicable and baffling conclusions that so well reflect liberal thinking. Please post more!

    [thumbup]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 5:49 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    1800+ corporations have been given exemptions from Obamacare.[sleeping]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 5:34 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1666

    [thumbup]
    Steve you are so right

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:20 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Welcome back Steve. Missed you

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:19 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell it is all in your point of view. Conservatives have shoved this inefficient, very costly health system down the publics throat so some corporations makes tons of cash. Meanwhile the rest of the developed world have brought into being health systems that are more efficient, have much lower costs and better outcomes into being. Yes, we, unlike the other developed countries, get to watch those who cannot afford health insurance go bankruptcy and many of them die or suffer from not being able see a doctor but we get the pleasure of knowing we are a better person than these moochers are. Yes we have to pay a lot more for that pleasure but it is really worth it. This is what freedom is all about.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:35 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2610

    DB is trapped in a time warp where its always 2010.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:19 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr. Lucas stated...The Republican party is run by the corporations mainly Fossil fuel, Wall street, Insurance and Defense. Do you notice that you always take their side? Invariably you come down on the side of corporations. I wonder why that is so?

    Bizarre conclusions Mr. Lucas... very bizarre…

    I am only making comments about what I want for me. I do not care what republicans or democrats want. I do not care what corporations want . I care about the freedom to decide ... freedom to say no to government taking care of me. I do not want government healthcare... liberals do not want to give me the choice.

    How sad that I can go to a communist country like China to gain the type of freedom I like... I can go to Thailand where I can get many freedoms that liberals in United States have taken away from me.
    As Mr. Lucas admitted... liberals demand to cover everyone with government single payer system... so nice of Mr. Lucas to shove it down my throat.

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 3:22 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 32

    Actually the REAL way I'd do healthcare would be much less expsensive.... But then Crowder would petition to have me hanged.

    I guess you have your own reality. I'm cool with that. Maybe it's your age...

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:05 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    nope, the way you want to do healthcare makes all of us, including you, pay more for it. This is the reality. The fact that you cannot understand that makes you ignorant on the subject.

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 2:59 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 32

    Emphasis on IRRESPONSIBLE. So, the government should step in every time a person is irresponsible? We should then stop fat people from eating twinkies; we should probably outlaw liquor again too (it worked so well the first time) becasue so many are irresponsible when drinking; we should put governor's on all vehicles so no one can travel at an excessive speed and possibly cause an accident (or maybe give them all electric cars - same outcome). Space and time limits me from listing another 100 examples (I have to get back to work and running my business to pay for this government crap).

    I'm fully aware that people rushing to the ER for a cold drives costs up. We all take gambles in life and we should have to live with the outcome. I'm sure the free market would figure something out. It used to be that you could negotiate with doctors for costs or -- imagine the novelty -- pay cash for the services!

    I have an idea: If YOU want to donate to the "truly deserving poor" [not sure how you would define that] then, by all means, do so! Just don't confiscate my EARNINGS for it. You are welcome to give all you want. I'll take care of myself and my family (which I do) without outside help. Then, if I have anything left over, I'll give to the charity of my choice (chich, quite frankly, would likely be more animal-oriented than human-oriented. But that's for a different posting).

    As far as compassion -- there is a small percentage of society that, by no DECISION of their own [by the way: a drug addict or former addict makes a decision] are very needy and require government (e.g. my tax dollars) help. I'm all for it. But my definition of needy is probably vastly different from yours.

    JL: I simply love how "ignorant" anyone is whom does not agree with you. Wonderfully closed mind.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:36 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    No, we do not want to create a nanny life from cradle to grave. What the majority of the people in this country want is a medical system that is more efficient, costs less, covers everyone and has better outcomes. The one we had before Obamacare was one the least efficient, most expensive in the world, did not cover everyone, and was ranked 37th in the world. Though a single payer system would have much better we have Obamacare and it will evolve into a great system.

    The Republican party is run by the corporations mainly Fossil fuel, Wall street, Insurance and Defense. Do you notice that you always take their side? Invariably you come down on the side of corporations. I wonder why that is so?


     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:08 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    According to spending projections issued by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the costs associated with implementing Obamacare over the next ten years are more than double what the Obama Administration claimed when first pushing for its passage.[sleeping]

    http://cbo.gov/publication/43080

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:01 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    A liberal stated…People (Conservatives) who enjoy forcing others to do as they please will be overjoyed. Conservatives always know what is best for people who disagree with their desires.

    Not possible Mr. Lucas… Obamacare mandates everyone has insurance… liberals do not want people to opt out of social security, liberals want Federal government to nationalize healthcare, liberals do not want to give choice in education with a voucher system,

    It is conservatives that want less government regulations and less federal mandates that force people to live as liberals want. It is conservatives that wish to give options and choice to how to live one’s life, liberals want the Federal government to create a nanny life from cradle to grave.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:10 pm on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Yes it will be terrible. We will save billions a year and everyone will be covered. If we are like the other countries we will live longer and hopefully improve vastly from 37th place in the world on outcomes. Even if we stayed with Obamacare as it is the costs are dramatically going to come down. That is what the CBO says and any non partisan study of it has shown. Can Obamacare be anything but an improvement on the insane system we had? Very hard to do.

    to sort of quote you :

    People (Conservatives) who enjoy forcing others to do as they please will be overjoyed. Conservatives always know what is best for people who disagree with their desires.

    Do you not want to force a hugely wasteful system that does not cover everybody and does a terrible job on everybody? Yes, I think so. That is ok because you are a Conservative.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:48 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    with the emphasis on ignorant

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 10:40 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Yours is the most ignorant and selfish response possible. You say that you don't want to subsidize anyone else's healthcare, but in fact, every dollar you currently spend on healthcare subsidizes those who are too irresponsible to provide health insurance for themselves. Their poor gamble forces them to wait until their situation is so dire, they wind up in the emergency room without funds, and the rest of us are forced to absorb the costs. I was surprised that you did not note the typical conservative nod to those "truly deserving poor" who need taxpayer help. It would seem you feel compassion for no one at all.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:37 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated... In the end we will be like Canada

    I completely agree with Mr Lucas. Obamacare was designed to destroy the current health care system the way it was setup to dramatically increase costs and blame big business for notplaying Obamacare ball. . The people will demand the governemnt do something to solve the problem Obamacare created in the first place. I will be shocked if national healthcare is not here by 2025

    There will be no alternative but for the Federal government to socialize medicine in a Canadian style system. People who are comforted by Big Brother controlling their lives will be very very pleased. People who do not care if health care is rationed will also be pleased.

    People (liberals) who enjoy forcing others to do as they please will be overjoyed. Liberals always know what is best for people who disagree with their desires.


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:17 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Kaur stated...I am curious why the person who wrote this letter quoted word for word from this website for the entire letter but did not give credit except for the opening sentences.

    Are you kidding? Since many people often want to know the source that leads me to conclude various things, I intentionally provided to the link for everyone to read the original document so to make clear that my letter was simply a summary. I thought if they were interested, they could review the whole thing.

    As far as balance, I thought the information I provided was to slightly balance the high volumn of biased information provided by the entire democratic machine as well as CNN,NBC, CBS, PBS. In addition, most the major newspapers provide amble articles, videos and data that goes on and on about the advantages of Obamacare.
    If there is information in this article that you think is not accurate please refute it.

    However, if you think businesses are not discussing possibilities of alternatives to the massive costs Obamacare brings, I think you are badly mistaken

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 9:58 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 32

    Doubtful. I personally spend very little on healthcare. Overall, because of my tax burden, my "costs" will go up.

    I don't want to subsidize your health care at any cost. Your healthcare is not my responsiblity (nor should it be the governments responsibility).

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:04 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    When this happens you will be spending less money on healthcare than you do now.

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 8:41 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 32

    JL: Yes, it will spread...like a cancer. Or, if you prefer, like a fungus.

    "...750 Billion dollars a year, every year, that can be spent on other things.".
    How about giving it back to those of us who pay taxes. The government does not need to SPEND anymore of MY money!

     
  • Jien Kaur posted at 7:56 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Jien Kaur Posts: 316

    Not being familiar with the laws in the United States regarding copyright, I am curious why the person who wrote this letter quoted word for word from this website for the entire letter but did not give credit except for the opening sentences.

    Does quoting an internet source represent expertise and truth telling in this country?

    It seems that other resources should be referenced in order to get a more rounded vision of the subject and at least give the appearance of non-bias.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:37 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    When introducing then promptly enacting Obamacare, the president stated that healthcare law reform would not cost a penny over $1 trillion ($900 billion to be precise), and that it would not add “one dime” to the debt.

    It appears that his estimate may have been slightly optimistic… by a factor of 1700%!
    [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:37 am on Wed, Dec 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Obamacare is here to stay. In Vermont they are using it to create a single payer system which will drive down the health care costs dramatically as it does everywhere it is been tried. In the end we will be like Canada. They started their system in one Provence and it spread to all the others. This trend will start in Vermont and spread to other states as the obvious benefits are shown to be true. In this way we will get the 17.5% of GDP down to what every other developed country has which is 12% of GDP or less. This is 750 Billion dollars a year, every year, that can be spent on other things.

     

Recent Comments

Posted 19 hours ago by Jeff Tillett.

Posted 19 hours ago by Angie McDaniel.

article: Letter: Leaders to blame for police dea…

How about following the law in return for a little respect from the cops? How about acknowledging the fact that our police risk their lives…

More...

Posted 20 hours ago by Brian Dockter.

article: Letter: Leaders to blame for police dea…

Thomas stated: Is there no holiday for the malcontents? I mean it's xmas. -Exactly, Or do you not consider the protestors who vandalized…

More...

Posted 20 hours ago by Brian Dockter.

Posted 20 hours ago by Brian Dockter.

article: Letter: Leaders to blame for police dea…

Shane, Has the thought ever crossed your mind that many of these officers were in fear of their civil rights being violated and they had t…

More...

Video

Popular Stories

Poll

Vote on the biggest local story in 2014: See poll below

It has been an eventful year in Lodi, from the antics of a wild turkey named Tom Kettleman to the announced closure of the General Mills plant. What do you see as the biggest story of the year?

Total Votes: 288

Loading…

Your News

News for the community, by the community.

Mailing List

Subscribe to a mailing list to have daily news sent directly to your inbox.

  • Breaking News

    Would you like to receive breaking news alerts? Sign up now!

  • News Updates

    Would you like to receive our daily news headlines? Sign up now!

  • Sports Updates

    Would you like to receive our daily sports headlines? Sign up now!

Manage Your Lists