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Obama is not helping to improve the economy

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Posted: Thursday, October 4, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 6:11 am, Thu Oct 4, 2012.

I would like to comment on Mr. Lucas' letter, "A history of conservative Republican ideas and achievements," published on Sept. 27. It is the typical liberal argument of grammar school logic and no facts. I can't cover each issue in this response due to word limitations, but let me address a few.

To suggest that Herbert Hoover and Republican policies caused the crash of 1929 is just plain weird. Speculation, unsecured loan practices, margin buying and perhaps Fed Reserve policies were the culprit, not Hoover's policies.

As to our recent crash, one need only look to the actions of Cuomo, Dodd and Frank to find out how the Democrats sought to get people into housing who could not afford a down payment or monthly payments. The record is replete with Bush administration efforts to get Congress to address the issue but being frustrated by Mr. Frank accusing them of being anti-poor people (apparently it is anti-poor to think not having the money to buy something should prevent you from buying it).

Lastly for now, you see that once the fact that Obama increased the debt by $5 trillion (or is it $6 trillion now?) in four years, liberals like Mr. Lucas argue, "Oh yeah, the debt went up under Republicans too!" Not much of an argument. The issues are whether such new debt is good or bad and what happens if we don't do something. Obama promised to cut the debt in half, but now says "the economy was worse than he thought." No, we understood just how bad it was and his ineptitude is not helping.

The left is incapable of cogently arguing their position because there are rarely any facts to support it. Instead, they just spout the nonsense they heard on MSNBC or at some skate park as if it were true or rational; it's not.

John Herrick

Lodi

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Welcome to the discussion.

241 comments:

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:30 am on Sun, Oct 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    asked and answered Mr Lucas, focus please!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:09 am on Sun, Oct 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    CONTINUED...

    Mr Lucas claims Mr Herrick stated or perceives that Republicans were not responsible in any way... Reality is that he implied is htat it absurd to state that “only” Republican policies caused the Crash of 1929.

    I can state that I believe republican policies as well as democratic policies contributed... In addition, it was many other variables not related to government policies. Individual greed, incompetence, and many other factors make up the entire reason for the crash.

    Blaming republicans or democrats is a waste of time, just like debating Mr Lucas. Mr Herrick provided other reasons than the left/right argument, which is reasonable.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:07 am on Sun, Oct 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    ******************************************************************
    * ***
    * *** PECEPTION VS. REALITY
    * * * * ******************************************************************

    Mr Lucas stated... Mr. Herrick said that the Republicans “WERE NOT IN ANY WAY RESPONSIBLE” for the two greatest financial calamities that we have had in spite of the fact the Republicans owned the White House 8 years previously when the events occurred

    What Mr Herrick actually stated...To suggest that Herbert Hoover and Republican policies caused the crash of 1929 is just plain weird. Speculation, unsecured loan practices, margin buying and perhaps Fed Reserve policies were the culprit, not Hoover's policies

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:48 am on Thu, Oct 11, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    http://www.facebook.com/RONDAJUDEN?ref=ts&fref=ts#!/photo.php?fbid=388980881171775&set=a.235135263223005.52022.100001796004886&type=1&theater

    Big Bird.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:30 am on Thu, Oct 11, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    John wrote:

    You are really just talking about a different kind of terrorist. If you really are afraid of that it is obviously better just to vote for Obama. He has a great track record of hammering terrorists.

    -And he also has a great track record of grovelling to terrorist. We need go no farther than the new government in Egypt ran by the Muslim Brotherhood. They are a front group for Al-Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah. All of which are primarily funded by the Saudis. Now, I am afraid of them even more because of Obama.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:31 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are really just talking about a different kind of terrorist. If you really are afraid of that it is obviously better just to vote for Obama. He has a great track record of hammering terrorists.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 8:12 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1496

    and if it was.......?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:19 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    http://www.politicalislam.com/

    You Can Never Awaken a Man Who Is Pretending to be Asleep

    The White House and media response to the events in the US embassies in Egypt and Libya can be characterized by the fact they speak like they have never seen Sharia mob justice before in their lives. Or, at least, you would think that from the knowledge and wisdom they display in their analysis.

    For the last 11 years since 9/11, we have watched the same events unroll in the Islamic world and the same response come from our so-called leaders in the government, media, schools and the pulpits. The establishment view: Those Muslims are extremists, not real Muslims. We should be careful not to offend the religion of peace. When Muslims are offended by movies, Koran burnings and Mohammed cartoons, it is our fault.

    The clue phone is ringing, pick it up. Here are the clues:

    The murder of intellectuals and artists who criticize Mohammed is Sunna. Sunna is the perfect example of Mohammed’s life. When Mohammed captured Mecca, he first prayed, then he destroyed all religious art and then he issued death warrants for the artists and intellectuals who had opposed him. There are only two new facts in the Koran, a derivative work. The first new fact is that Mohammed is the prophet of Allah, and the second new truth is that if you don’t believe he is prophet of Allah, you can be killed.

    Violence is what brings Islam success. In Mohammed’s life, he preached the religion of Islam for 13 years and garnered 150 new followers. When he went to Medina and became a politician and a warlord, when he died every Arab was a Muslim. Jihad violence was what made Islam successful. If Mohammed practice jihad, Muslims must use the technique of jihad.

    Hello establishment experts, the black flag is not an Al Qaeda flag. The black flag with the Shahada, “There is no god, but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet” and the swords goes back to the Golden Age of Islam in Baghdad in the 9th century. (The establishment professors never tell you about this jihad aspect of the Islamic Golden Age.) This jihad flag is ancient.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:55 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Mr Heuer wrote:

    You act surprised. Muslims being elected in predominantly muslim countries? What ware you trying to say Brian?

    Mr Heuer,
    You have a knack at missing the point. Political Islam is the issue we should be concerned about. Look it up. I doubt you would be a proponent of the third Reich.
    Why are you such a proponent of political Islam?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:44 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Best you got Joe? [beam]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:26 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    I said "Whine on". He didn't disappoiint. .

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:24 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    sorry the question should read:

    Darrell are you stating that Al Gore did not introduce, sponsor and get through the Senate the legislation that put up the money that led to the creation of the internet?

    Yes or No. Well Darrell?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:14 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You said in that answer that he did not invfvent the internet. That was not the question. Here is the question( I know this is a waste of time[smile]):

    Darrell are you stating that Al Gore did not introduce, sponsor and get through the Senate that put up the money that led to the creation of the internet?

    Yes or No.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:59 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Darrell are you stating that Al Gore did not introduce, sponsor and get through the Senate that put up the money that led to the creation of the internet?

    Asked and answered at 7:21 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012... more evidence that Mr Lucas cannot comprehend what any conservative places before his very nose...

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 4:54 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1496

    And if it was........?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:52 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...It does not present any argument or idea other than the vilification of an opponent in a debate..

    No, I said it would be in vain specifically with you. You are the one that set the bar... when you stated the only good that has come to America originated from liberal ideas, and only bad comes from conservative ideas and policies, it is saying that you are so biased that discussion with you is meaningless.

    I am so glad you admitted who your sister is, as it very much explains from what well the Kool aid has come from.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:45 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...It is interesting in an odd sort of way. It is like living the 5th grade all over again ( in reference to Mr Baxter)

    perception vs reality... that is what interests me... I think it without doubt would appear to Mr Lucas that it is like being in fifth grade .

    When person" A "has no ability to comprehend the reality of person "B", "A" could easily conclude "B" is either an idiot, mononic, or childish... no doubt.

    The above example assumes that person's A & B are both intelligent and bright.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 1:12 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Whine on,,,,,,,,

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:15 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Interesting

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 12:07 pm on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Yee Haw, BrainDead Biden beating Ryan in the debate? I might stop laughing at that statement sometime next week. Biden couldn't win a debate with a fence post.Even with a moderator trying to steer the debate in Biden's favor, ain't gonna happen.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 11:46 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Hmmm, wonder why Romney wasn't invited? Biased? Oh yeah, for sure.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:17 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joe Baxter normal. Do not respond to the argument attack the one who argues.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:13 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Yes that will be the conservative line will be if by some miracle Biden wins the debate against the mighty Ryan.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:48 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Darrell said "Joe could provide an exhaustive list of examples" and your speaking for him why? You don't think Old-Lame-O can't speak for himself? Why is it conservatives seem to make wild statements like Lyin Ryan and Flippin Romney who have great tax cut plans and call them revenue neutral but won't give the details of the plans saying "oh I don't want to bore you with the details."

    And Old-Lame-O said "attended the wedding of ABC's Martha Raddatz, the moderator in the upcoming VP debate" and of course on her wedding day they talked debat moderating strategy? You must have been a real romantic at you wedding.
    Geez you guys need to really get a grip.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:29 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    You act surprised. Muslims being elected in predominantly muslim countries? What ware you trying to say Brian?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 10:24 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Owe-Blame-O recently attended the wedding of ABC's Martha Raddatz, the moderator in the upcoming VP debate on Thursday night, and appointed her husband to head the FCC. Think maybe she will make every attempt to assist skewing the debate in poor old BrainDead Bidens favor? Yeah, no doubt about it. Chicago style politics. Can't beat'em, bribe'em.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 10:13 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Mike Adams, is this something you have personally experienced?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:59 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I said:

    The bridge between Liberals and Conservatives cannot be crossed until Conservatives start to debate about ideas and policy instead of this steady diet of personal attacks and hyperbole.

    Exhibit 1. Joe Baxter's above post

    I rest my case

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:49 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Mr. Baumbach, right you are. When LIBERALS are presented with actual proven facts, they go to great lengths to minimize the truth and simply attempt to redirect the conversation to something else. Their retorts usually beging with the famous "Yeah, but" words then go on to bash Bush or any other conservative that does not even enter into the original conversation. One would think that they would eventually tire of the old "Bush did it" mantra but apparently that's all they can come up with. To them lies about conservatives become truths and truths about LIBERALS become lies. No wonder some claim LIBERALISM is a mental disease.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:09 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    This post by Darrell exemplifies the state of Conservative argument in action. It does not present any argument or idea other than the vilification of an opponent in a debate. It thinks by making repeated personal attacks on the opponent that it proves their case. If you look at the posts I have made there are made up of ideas about policy and history. The bridge between Liberals and Conservatives cannot be crossed until Conservatives start to debate about ideas and policy instead of this steady diet of personal attacks and hyperbole.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:29 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Wow. Darrell how can anyone respond to such a clear and cogent repl to my arguments I said:

    Think about it Darrell. He introduced sponsored legislation that led to the creation of the internet. Lets say that did not happen. would the internet be here? Who knows but he used the government to create the beginnings of the internet. Today because the government led by Al Gore there is a multi-trillion dollar industry thriving. It is has made all our live easier and more interesting. BTW, that is Liberalism is action.

    Your clear and cogent response to my arguments:

    Hummm... may I suggest you look in the mirror with complete focus and concentration. Then gently shift your weight until you feel pressure on the tips of your toes and air surrounding your heels. Then repeat that process over and over... up, down, up ,down... you will have witnessed liberalism in motion as what ever you do and say is a result of your illusions of your liberalism.
    When someone can witness the results of your perceptions as the event is happening, one might refer to it as liberalism in motion.

    BTW. Your response is Conservatism in action

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:24 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Yes, like you Joe does not want to give examples and arguments to back up his "opinions". It is just much easier to engage in personal attacks make statements with out any facts to back them up. Getting into a nuts and bolt debate about policy or issues is just too much hard work

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:18 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    He warned us about the coming of climate change years ago before as we now know is true and see happening right before our very eyes. He listened to the scientists and had the vision to sound the warning and for stating the truth he has been vilified. Your statement:

    In reality, he became a greedy billionaire after leaving politics by taking advantage of people's hearts and concerns for the environment participating in phoney get rich schemes.

    Who do you think he is? Mitt Romney?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:11 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell are you stating that Al Gore did not introduce, sponsor and get through the Senate that put up the money that led to the creation of the internet? Are you saying that when the defense department invented the internet because of this legislation that it did not lead to the creation of one of the biggest new industries in history?
    Your calling him names does not alter these facts.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:11 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Joe stated...VERIFIABLE vs. the LIBERAL smear propaganda machine claims.ink
    then Reply John Lucas posted at 6:00 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    How about some examples please?

    Joe could provide an exhaustive list of examples but it would be in vain... Mr Lucas already has the illusion in his head that everything good is based in liberalism and everything bad is based in conservatism.. therefore, the mental filter he has would prevent him from comprehending anything Joe might list as truth... in his mind, it cannot possibly be and would then accuse Joe of being a liar...

    Joe's list would be an exercise in futility if the goal was to convince Mr Lucas of anything.. if the goal is to educate people who have open minds, then the list would have value.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 8:03 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1496

    As to Al Gore inventing the internet, I suggest you read Al Franken's books: "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat Idiot" and "Liaing Liars...". Sen. Franken outlines how Al Gore helped the development and spread of the initernet. And it's very funny.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:02 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr lucas stated...BTW, that is Liberalism is action.

    Hummm... may I suggest you look in the mirror with complete focus and concentration. Then gently shift your weight until you feel pressure on the tips of your toes and air surrounding your heels. Then repeat that process over and over... up, down, up ,down... you will have witnessed liberalism in motion as what ever you do and say is a result of your illusions of your liberalism.

    When someone can witness the results of your perceptions as the event is happening, one might refer to it as liberalism in motion.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 7:29 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1496

    Let me summarize my 5:55 post that LNS didn't post:
    1. Kinderman, go find the cat bring it back, and your access to my clever lines will be
    restored.

    2. Actually, cocaine is quite a brain stimulant and so if you were using cocaine, you'd
    be more likely to think it up and then remember it. Alcohol has the opposite effect.
    Bush clearly drank a lot of alcohol.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:21 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Think about it Darrell. He (Gore) introduced sponsored legislation that led to the creation of the internet. Lets say that did not happen. would the internet be here?

    Please Mr Lucas, we are not talking about reality, but what Gore interpreted reality to be. Of course he did not invent the internet... As Clint Eastwood said in his movie... He (Gore) is a legend in his own mind.

    Gore was and is simply an overblown ego maniac that loved what he saw in the mirror. In his mind, without doubt, the world owes him since he invented the internet. In reality, he became a greedy billionaire after leaving politics by taking advantage of people's hearts and concerns for the environment participating in phoney get rich schemes.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:58 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1496

    LNS: Where's my post of 5:55PM???

    What, people can't post the truth anymore??????

    Have you heard of the 1st Ammendment to the Constitution? It's in the part titled "Bill of Rights".

    You let serial plagairists post endlessly.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:04 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Amazing. Why do Conservative Republicans always say their opponents do what they themselves are expert at. Joe, this is projection.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:00 am on Wed, Oct 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    How about some examples please?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:15 pm on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Thomas wrote:

    Muslim nonsense Alert

    -Tell that to the Egyptians. Not to mention all the other countries where the balance of power is going back to the Muslims.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:13 pm on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Who's smearing who? You cast the first stone.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:17 pm on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Go live in Dearborn, Michigan for a year and get back to me regarding Muslims.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:06 pm on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Too bad the "light" at the end of the LIBERAL tunnel is a REPUBLICAN freight train about to run them over, full steam ahead.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 4:56 pm on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Thank you John for shedding light where darkness dwells.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 4:53 pm on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Old-Lame-O said "Gore couldn't pour water out of a tin can if the instructions were written on the bottom. " Does this come under "VERIFIABLE vs. the CONSERVATIVE smear propaganda machine claims."
    BTW Bush is still refered to as President Bush because HE WAS THE PRESIDENT. And he use to get some of the best stuff. I mean I am talking to the guy who thought he was watching a true documentary with "Obama 2016" so verifiable is a loose term on your part. As a result I'm free to say anything I want to you verifiable or not. Its just my opinion as Darrell would say..

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:15 pm on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Gore couldn't pour water out of a tin can if the instructions were written on the bottom. Be sure to tune in Thursday for the Braindead Biden vs Ryan debate. Should prove to be another massacre just like the Presidential debate turned out. I have a feeling poor Owe-Blame-O is developing an ulcer hoping his moronic VP won't blurt out his usual idiotic rhetoric. Yee Haw, it is going to be a good old fashioned "beat down".

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:07 pm on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    VERIFIABLE vs. the LIBERAL smear propaganda machine claims.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:26 pm on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    BTW, that is Liberalism is action.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:24 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    What you say may be true but it took me awhile to stop laughing when YOU used there is no verifiable proof defense.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 11:14 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Brian posted :I doubt Obama will ever be able to remember all the things he did when he was high on cocaine.
    Thomas answered : Could Bush.
    Bush isn't President OR running for president. The only wayThomas could know for sure that Bush used cocaine is if he was sitting there doing it with him. There is absolutely NO verifiable proof that Bushed used cocaine.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:56 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Think about it Darrell. He introduced sponsored legislation that led to the creation of the internet. Lets say that did not happen. would the internet be here? Who knows but he used the government to create the beginnings of the internet. Today because the government led by Al Gore there is a multi-trillion dollar industry thriving. It is has made all our live easier and more interesting.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:40 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    He was talking about a bill he sponsored that put up the money to create the internet.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:37 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Yes, there is no doubt what this discussion is about goes way over your head and involves things you know nothing about or even care about.. It is about a core value of all spiritual traditions and how it pertains to personal character

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:35 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    ...so of course Gore, a liberal, takes create for creating the internet ( inventing)

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:34 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Scary universe our friend Brian lives in.[smile]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:33 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    1999 CNN interview

    Gore discussed the possibility of running during a March 9, 1999 interview with CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer. In response to Wolf Blitzer's question: "Why should Democrats, looking at the Democratic nomination process, support you instead of Bill Bradley?", Gore responded:
    I'll be offering my vision when my campaign begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it will be compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be. But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:33 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    When you chuckle about that statement you are not saying anything about Obama but about yourself. There is a principle you are ignoring here. All of us make mistakes. It is how we deal with them that counts. These were two examples of how a human being deals with a mistake. Your answer is no answer. This goes to the core of all spiritual traditions and on personal character. There is no middle ground. Obama made a mistake pushing a girl. He made amends by mentioning his error in a book he wrote. Romney pretends he does not remember leading a pack of boys attacking another boy, holding him down and cutting his hair. The choice is clear. Your answer says nothing about the issue except you either do not get it or do not have the courage to deal with it.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:58 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Muslim nonsense Alert

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:53 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Could Bush?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:17 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    John wrote:

    Wow! you cannot see the difference? He feels so much regret over the incident he puts in his book because he shoves a girl. Romney cannot remember leading a pack of boys and holding a screaming boy down and cutting his hair. When confronted by multiple eyewitnesses he cannot remember the incident. I rest my case.

    -Chuckle,

    I doubt Obama will ever be able to remember all the things he did when he was high on cocaine.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:14 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Obama's support for Muslim Brotherhood including their goal for world domination with the Koran being the constitution should be enough for anyone not to vote for Obama. Including Muslims.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 7:08 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1496

    Joe: I think if you changed "Owe-Blame-O" to "Owe-Blame-A", it would make a better sounding barb, all the right sounds in all the right places.

    To satisfy the uptight Kinderman types, I did not invent "Owe-Blame-O" , but maybe "Owe-Blame-A". Either way, Kinderman types, you can use "Owe-Blame-A"
    anytime your wish.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:47 am on Tue, Oct 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Actually Andrew, thank you for stating the obvious...like I said below, I cannot think of many things more meaningless that participating in a discussion about the behavior of a teens past. He said he was sorry, you ( Mr Lucas) thinks he was insincere... who flipping cares.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:04 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    John said "Wow! you cannot see the difference?" In my opinion
    Old-Lame-O won't know the difference, never will and you will never get a disreputible like Baumbach to quit defending a perpetual liar like Romney. Just my opinion.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:08 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    During the last 6 months the DHS has been amassing an estimated 1.8 billion rounds of hollow point bullets through their agency; as well as the Social Security Office, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA), and the US Forest Service and other federal agencies.

    I hate to interrupt your highly substantive discussion about which candidate is a bigger bully but you might want to consider awakening from your slumber for just a second...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:00 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    The point is, I do not care what you or Romney did as a teen... it is simply irrelevent to what you and he are today.

    If you are concerned, I suggest you are focused on nothing... to which I think, thats a liberal for you...

    In fact, I cannot think of many things more meaningless that participating in a discussion about the behavior of a teens past. He said he was sorry, you think he was insincere... who flipping cares.

    There is nothing to be outraged about... nothing. In fact, being outraged is irrational behavior on your part... your problem, not mine.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:56 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    http://www.giyf.com

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:26 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    http://www.giyf.com

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:38 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joe Baxter said:

    Why aren't YOU offended by Owe-Blame-O bullying and shoving a girl named Coretta in middle school as described in his own book? If you find it necessary to shame Romney for school age pranks, then you should also find it necessary to shame Owe-Blame-O for his.

    Wow! you cannot see the difference? He feels so much regret over the incident he puts in his book because he shoves a girl. Romney cannot remember leading a pack of boys and holding a screaming boy down and cutting his hair. When confronted by multiple eyewitnesses he cannot remember the incident. I rest my case.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:29 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Actually if he would have done it he would have gained much stature in my eyes

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:15 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joe Baxter said:

    Romney did apologize after the story broke, saying that while he doesn't remember all of his prep school "pranks," if "anyone was hurt by that or offended, obviously I apologize."

    This is not an apology. Do you really think he did not remember holding down a guy and cutting his hair while the guy is screaming? Are you serious? An apology says I did it, it was wrong and I apologize to those it may have hurt. Then everyone forgets it and moves on.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:13 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...You are wrong. To not express regret, to not take responsibility for action we take as a teen is not moral behavior( in reference to Romney)

    Incredible... People like Romney who take their faith seriously, takes responsibility for their behavior and sins committed by asking god for forgiveness, not the liberal media and hypocritical liberals like Mr Lucas. The media never holds other liberals accountable who do bad things like Mr Clinton (who never had sex with his very young intern) He never apologized to to dozens of women that he sexually abused... no... thats no problem for liberals...

    I do not think Mr Romney should be held to a higher standard... but he voluntarily has...Romney said....

    "For me, it's about 48 years ago, so, again, if there's anything I said that's offensive to someone I certainly am sorry about that, very deeply sorry about that. But there was no harm intended."

    Romney said, "I had no idea that this person might have been gay."
    Asked about the episodes during a radio interview on Thursday morning, Mr. Romney apologized.

    “Back in high school, I did some dumb things and if anybody was hurt by that or offended, obviously I apologize for that,” Mr. Romney told Brian Kilmeade, a radio host. Mr. Romney added, “I participated in a lot of high jinks and pranks during high school and some might have gone too far and for that, I apologize.”

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:56 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Romney did apologize after the story broke, saying that while he doesn't remember all of his prep school "pranks," if "anyone was hurt by that or offended, obviously I apologize." I wonder how much money Axelrod paid this "student" to recall events that happened 47 years ago. Even the students own sister says it wasn't so.
    Why aren't YOU offended by Owe-Blame-O bullying and shoving a girl named Coretta in middle school as described in his own book? If you find it necessary to shame Romney for school age pranks, then you should also find it necessary to shame Owe-Blame-O for his.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 5:38 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1496

    Apparently, they can because that is just what happened.

    Darrell: it's sad seeing you go down this road.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:24 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are wrong. To not express regret, to not take responsibility for action we take as a teen is not moral behavior. We all make mistakes. The only way we atone for those mistakes is to take personal responsibility for them and make amends to those we have harmed. This is the accepted practice and teaching of every religion or spiritual practice on this planet. Period. You show me one that it is not. You will not find one. Period

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:16 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew stated...Two planes can't crash into two buildings and knock down three

    Wouldn't disagree.. That is one dot... many more dots you presented, but never connected the dots, which was my point.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:16 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Good glad we got that cleared up. Joe I ask you the same question I asked Darrell about Romney's assault on the gay kid.

    How is it that you are not outraged that he does not show any remorse, take responsibility or apologize for an assault on a fellow student? The assault can be forgiven but the latter behavior cannot be.

    Just asking

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:12 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The point Darrell is that you made your point over and over again. I am not running for President. We are talking about Mr Romney and what he did and his lack of contrition and your lack of outrage over this. I would like an answer to why you are not outraged not because of what he did but because he has taken no responsibility and has shown no contrition over his behavior.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:09 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...How is it that you are not outraged that he does not show any remorse, take responsibility or apologize for an assault on a fellow student?

    Are you serious? A teen, take responsibility? from what planet? Teens do terrible things all the time. They then grow up... taking responsibility means that you change your behavior and not repeat the bad mistakes we made as teens when we become adults.

    If someone sees what they did was wrong, and then sees the error in their ways by refusing to do bad things as adults, I count that as taking adult responsibilities seriously. Taking responsibility means that you treat your own children well and treat people with kindness and concern as an adult when you know better.

    If you can show where Romney repeated teen behavior as an adult, I would be on your side. But in my view, your contention that Romney has not taken responsibility as absurd. The number of people who have benefited from his kindness, leadership and generosity are to many to count.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:01 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Hah, right wing blogs? This is in HIS book, supposed a work of truths, penned by Owe-Blame-O himself or straight from his own mouth easily verified on camera. All but the SSN and SS fiascoes, anomalies that apparently only Owe-Blame-O seems to possess.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:38 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell at least we agree that Al Gore would not have been so stupid as to start the war in Iraq.

    Al Gore never said he invented the internet. He sponsored legislation that funded the people that did the work.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:26 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joe, you gotta quit reading those right wing blogs.[smile]

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 3:58 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1496

    And without the cut and paste option, his posts would be very short and mostly monosyllabic. And obnoxious. What do you expect from someone who thinks they work at a radio station and "web site"? Be sure to catch his latest you tube suggestion revealing either more government corruption or somebody saying something that would have been better cut and pasted.

    LNS really should do something about him.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:58 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr.Heuer stated..I think Joanne is referring to the numbers of posts ...

    Really? Then maybe Ms Bobin should not say " Never have read a single similar comment from Liebich about Romney"

    Now Mr. Heuer is horning in on Ms Bobin's inclination to express Tina Fey type comedy

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:51 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Mr Lucas stated...Sorry Darrell but your comments in this regard are always trying to say that the President is not really an American. In one comment you stated:
    Conservatives would love good news, after Nov. elections, it will once again return with Obama packing his bags for Indonesia.

    Sorry Mr Lucas, you are so far off base it almost seems flakey. I have stated over and over that I am not contesting his story that he was born in Hawaii. He has the papers to prove it. Right?
    He is by constitutional provisions eligible to be president of United States. My contention and opinion is that he is better suited to be president in Indonesia based on what he wrote in his book, “The Dreams from my Father”... So of course he is really an American.
    However, for an inexplicable reason, he is hiding the fact that he has gone by a Muslim name and practiced the Muslim faith that he adores and respects. Both Obama and his sister, were born to Muslim fathers, making them Muslims by birth. As long as both were being raised by Lolo Soetoro, both were being raised as Muslims. The degree of practice did not matter.

    I believe Obama longs for his family in Indonesia and wishes to someday return. I think Romney winning the election will expediate that event.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 3:51 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Why is it that when an Obama supporter is presented with "truth" it magically morphs into "bashing? Of course there is more to say about President Obama, he is the one who has been President for 3 3/4 years. [sleeping]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:34 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    Forget the fact that Owe-Blame-O, depending on which lie he tells, was either born to married parents or a single mother. Forget he was mentored by a avowed bisexual communist and pornographer. Forget he won't release his college applications. Forget he can't/won't explain his forged Selective Service document or his obvious bogus Social Security Number. Forget about his cocaine use, perhaps still ongoing. The liberals would dearly love to forget about Owe-Blame-O's admission of bullying a girl in high school. shoving her to the ground. Yeah, let's concentrate on a high school hazing prank by a teenager. The LIBERALS are desparately grasping at anything they can and this is the best they can do?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:24 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Does anyone think that Al Gore would have made the tragic and mindless blunder of going into Iraq?

    Cannot disagree with that... Mr Gore was much too busy inventing the internet and playing with his toy chu chu to bother with things like war.[beam]

    Imagine if Gore had won and had selected Biden as VP... I would pay money to watch that comedy show...

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:12 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    I think Joanne is refering to the numbers of posts. Untold number of Obama bashing (a lot) vs Romney bashing (a rare number and usually in tandem with mutual Obama/Romney bashing).

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:57 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    "ignored any YouTube videos I post" LNS's own Tosh .0

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:55 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Applause to John

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:49 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Read the following from the White House website Obamanoids: http://whitehouse.gov1.info/blog/blog_post/agenda-hawaii.html

    “The White House has recently been notified by the National Security Agency's Domestic Surveillance Directorate that some Americans are spreading rumors about President Obama buying a house in Hawaii to move into after the election is over. Obviously, this rumor is UNFOUNDED since the President will be living in the White House for the next FOUR YEARS.”

    “notified by the National Security Agency's Domestic Surveillance Directorate?”

    Domestic Surveillance Directorate? Huh? Turn off your TV's and think.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:30 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Robert you have a valid point. The extent of its validity depends on the percent of people that are "deadbeats". No matter what you do there are those that shirk their responsibilities. In line at checkouts there is always someone who tries to get their loaded carts through the "express line." Then do the feigned "oh gosh I didn't realize." In meetings or at movies there is always someone who fails to turn off their cell phone. There is always someone who uses their (non-hands free) cell phone while driving.There are always going to be those folks. Most people (high percent) follow laws regardless. This diminishes any impact you have on the success of the program. Now if the percentage changes and it becomes a detriment to the program then more enforcement is needed like tax incentives. Its like smog checks in the begining which had slackers and some clever jerry rigging of engines which ultimately led to you not being able to register your car without the certificate and more sophisticated equipment for inspections. This is always what I find separates dems and repubs. Dems always like programs that will benefit large numbers of people regardless of a few "deadbeats." The program will be seen as successful. However repubs dislike a program regardless of how many people benefit it there is the possibility of slackers getting away with something. They will view the programs as wasteful and irresponsible. As I say there are always slackers/"deadbeats" in life for everything. The success of a program depends on keeping their percents down. If there are large percents of slackers or gross negligence or even crimes are part of the program then nobody and I mean nobody will supprt it including myself.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:28 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "Just glanced at some of the comments below - Obama bashing by Liebich and NO Romney bashing!!!"

    Did the following sound pro-Romney? "In promising to arm the “Syrian” rebels – the majority of whom are not even Syrian – Romney has pledged to send taxpayer money to Al-Qaeda militants who have been responsible for carrying out terrorist attacks which have killed hundreds of people."

    How about this? "If that still doesn’t convince you there is no difference between Obama and Romney here is a list of 100 more reasons…"

    http://ivn.us/2012/07/17/100-ways-mitt-romney-is-just-like-barack-obama/

    OR this... "The following is an epic video which demonstrates very clearly how dramatically Mitt Romney has flip-flopped over the years…."

    http://youtu.be/uHSfnqho2jw

    WAKE-UP!


    [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:12 pm on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell stated:

    I was referring to Obama's own book where he referenced Indonesia as a wonderful place of his childhood. He said he has wonderful memories there... Romney on the other hand, has wonderful memories of his childhood in United States.

    Yes, he spend four years of his childhood in Indonesia and if he was a real American he would have said how terrible it was

    I did not get Romney's book. Maybe you can fill us in on how wonderful and American he felt when he led a group of his buddies to hold down a guy and cut off his hair. Ah those wonderful school years when we could beat up the queers. So American and a such a wonderful memory

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:58 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Sorry Darrell but your comments in this regard are always trying to say that the President is not really an American. In one comment you stated:

    Conservatives would love good news, after Nov. elections, it will once again return with Obama packing his bags for Indonesia.

    It is clear what your arguments are all about. There are tow reasons you do this. The first is you are trying to portray the President as unAmerican. The second is you then do not have to argue about any concrete policies

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:56 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Bizarre with a Capital B Mr Heuer...I use an analogy using ice cream to show different flavors of the same product instead of different products , and suddenly I'm a racist...

    How in the world do you draw that conclusion Mr Heuer. I guess I then should perceive it is you that is a flaming racist as only a racist could come up with that (takes one to know one)

    If I did, that would make me as bizarre as you... so I will not say that. Instead, I'll simply say your conclusion is inexplicable.

    As far as the location of the ice cream, I was referring to Obama's own book where he referenced Indonesia as a wonderful place of his childhood. He said he has wonderful memories there... Romney on the other hand, has wonderful memories of his childhood in United States.

    I was using an analogy that reflected what both men talked about in describing their childhood which were both very different. Are you saying there is something nefarious in making a point about what each man has said they hold dear and make up who they are today? Bizarre-O

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:47 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    yes, it is amazing how that brainwashing gets included into rational conversation

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:45 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:41 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin stated...Never have read a single similar comment from Liebich about Romney.

    Is it because you need new glasses or are you intentionally ignoring it?...?[whistling]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:38 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin stated... It is absolutely DELICIOUS that Mr. Baumbach has gotten onto the birther/Indonesian/Muslim boat after viewing that solid documentary - 2016.

    Actually Ms Bobin, I was so intrigued that the movie 2016 integrated Obama's own book, “Dreams From My Father”, that I decided to help Obama with his profits and bought his book.

    After reading Obama's book, it educated me as to what Obama is all about.

    May I ask, Are you stating that Obama is lying in his own book? What I wrote was based of his book. I suggest you read it so you can actually respond with a bit of facts. My comments has nothing to do with what you stated... as normal, another Tina Fey moment for Ms Bobin...

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 11:38 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Great post John

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 11:36 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    It is reprehensible but hardly a suprise.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 11:35 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Exactly Joanne

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:18 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    It is absolutely DELICIOUS that Mr. Baumbach has gotten onto the birther/Indonesian/Muslim boat after viewing that solid documentary - 2016. Much mocking to come.

    Hope it sinks with all aboard.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:16 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Not having read all the back and forth between Mr. Baumbach and Mr. Liebich, but rather basing this on Mr. Liebich's prior comments on other threads, he contends that one is no better or worse than the other.

    However, that does not explain his FERVENT opposition to President Obama, i.e., "Obamanoids, Obamanosis, etc."

    Never have read a single similar comment from Liebich about Romney.

    Just glanced at some of the comments below - Obama bashing by Liebich and NO Romney bashing!!!

    Either Mr. Liebich has a personal beef about Obama (no doubt race along with his already out-of-control birther garbage), or he thinks Romney is less of a threat.

    Additionally, with Liebich's conspiracy theory history, I'm surprised he hasn't leapt onto the "Mormonism is a Cult" theory. Further evidence that he is PRO ROMNEY.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:32 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell said:

    How funny to think Mr Lucas would consider the possibility that any conservative or Republican has good principles. Since all good originates from liberal ideas and policies and all bad things come from conservative ideas and policies( in Lucas World)

    This is a falsehood

    Darrell said:

    Ignorance is bliss.

    This is an unwarranted personal attack

    Score this post

    Falsehoods 1
    Unwarranted personal attacks i
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Darrell's boxscore
    Posts 9
    
Falsehoods 14

    Misrepresentations 1
    
Unwarranted personal attacks 5

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:24 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Comparing Obama's flip flops to Romney's is like comparing a slight breeze to a hurricane.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:17 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Darrell,
    You said, "ignoring their differences" Please elaborate on what exactly you believe to be different other than their ethnicity and/or religions.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:15 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I am really enjoying the debate between Darrell and Andrew about it does not make any difference who we elect as president. Andrew being on the it does not make any difference side. I think the 2000 election proves Andrew wrong.

    Does anyone think that Al Gore would have made the tragic and mindless blunder of going into Iraq?
    Does anyone think Al gore would have taken his eye off the ball and not gotten Ben Laden?
    Does anyone think we would have stayed in Afghanistan indefinitely?
    Does anyone think Al Gore would have hire a horse lawyer to head FEMA and who could not figure out how to get water to the victims of Katrina?
    Does anyone think Al Gore would have had a prescription bill that not only was not paid for but did not allow the Government to bargain with the drug companies?
    Does anyone think Al Gore would have ignored the warnings of an imminent attack on the United States by Al Queda?
    Does anyone think that Al Gore would have had two tax cuts for the wealthy without finding cuts to go along with them?
    Does anyone really believe that we would have had the deficit double in 8 years?

    and last but not least

    Does anyone believe that Al gore would have been so incompetent as to leave the economy in shambles as The Republicans led by George Bush did? The Stock market crashing, losing 800,000 jobs a month, the auto industry on its knees, banks failing, a credit crunch not seen since the Great Depression etc

    There is not a dime worth of difference between George Bush’s and Mitt Romney’s policies and ideas either in economics or foreign policy. There is a real choice in this election.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:14 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    I have "logically" presented my case that Obama and Romney are virtually clones.

    I do not disagree with anything you said Darrell except instead of saying "similar results" I would have said, "the same results."

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:02 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Two planes can't crash into two buildings and knock down three. [sleeping]

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 9:53 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    The same "deadbeats" that don't pay for healthcare now won't pay for healthcare when they are "mandated" to do so. They won't pay the fines either and probably have no assets to seize to satisfy the payment. What happens to them? Jails and prisons are already overcrowded. Just like a drivers license and insurance is required to operate a motor vehicle but still thousands of non-licensed and non-insured people are driving on American roads every day. To expect total compliance with the government insurance mandate is a fantasy.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:12 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    "If Obama is vanilla ice cream made in Indonesia " made in Indonesia? That is more of the racist garbage you allow in your thinking because it fits your unprincipled principles. Interesting that your mind can be persuaded if your principles (bias) remains intact. You have displayed many times that facts do not have a role in your opinion, only preconceived notions.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:42 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew, correct me if I am wrong, but I perceive you have the opinion that both parties provide legislation, regulations and policies that have similar results; that is, excessive government intrusion and control over people's lives in America. It is as if there are powers greater that our elected government officials that manipulate and control the political system
    ( both Democrats and Republicans).

    As a consequence, you support a third party which operates outside of the 2 party system that gives people more opportunity to control their destiny.

    This is why Ron Paul and the libertarians appeal to your sensibilities. Am I close? This is why you state Romney and Obama are virtually the same.

    If I am wrong, please correct anything I stated or add to it to make it more accurate.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:19 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I know you did, however, very few of the dots were connected in my view. In other positions, I thought you connected the dots well, thus, my support.

    In addition, your presentation and strategy in making your points changed making your information easier to focus on... like I said, when variables change, so does the outcome.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:14 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    How funny to think Mr Lucas would consider the possibility that any conservative or Republican has good principles. Since all good originates from liberal ideas and policies and all bad things come from conservative ideas and policies( in Lucas World), I imagine he would roll on the floor often in laughter...

    Ignorance is bliss.[beam][rolleyes]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:01 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I guess it depends on how you define different.

    If Obama is vanilla ice cream made in Indonesia and Romney is Chocolate ice cream made in United States, you can argue that they are virtually the same since they are both ice cream. I do not think all ice cream is virtually identical.

    I have said before that you can find many similarities between these two candidates..and you have identified many. However, ignoring their differences does not make them mirror images of each other.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:00 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I guess it depends on how you define different.

    If Obama is vanilla ice cream made in Indonesia and Romney is Chocolate ice cream made in United States, you can argue that they are virtually the same since they are both ice cream. I do not think all ice cream is virtually identical.

    I have said before that you can find many similarities between these two candidates..and you have identified many. However, ignoring their differences does not make them mirror images of each other.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:20 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    I "logically" presented my case regarding 9/11 as well Darrell.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:18 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Darrell,
    I’ll illustrate my point again. Today, in Lexington, Virginia Mitt Romney will vow to arm Syrian rebels during a major foreign policy speech, illustrating once again how there is virtually no difference between Romney and Obama. “Mitt Romney will call for an escalation of the conflict in Syria by arming rebels with the heavy weapons needed to confront president Bashar al-Assad’s tanks, helicopters and fighter jets,” reports the London Guardian.

    In promising to arm the “Syrian” rebels – the majority of whom are not even Syrian – Romney has pledged to send taxpayer money to Al-Qaeda militants who have been responsible for carrying out terrorist attacks which have killed hundreds of people. The Obama administration has already sent over $200 million dollars in “humanitarian” and non-lethal aid to the “rebels” (Al Qaeda). Romney, by his own admission today, confirms he will be no different.

    Given that conservative commentators have slammed Obama for his failed foreign policy in backing some of the same militants in Libya who later attacked the US Consulate in Benghazi, will they also skewer Romney for vowing to support Islamic extremists in Syria, especially given the fact that many of the fighters in Syria are Libyan militants?

    Although the media is ludicrously framing Romney’s approach to Syria as a change in direction from Obama’s, it merely represents an intensification of the same policy.
    Further illustrating Romney’s commitment to prolonging a disastrous foreign policy that has cost 2,000 American lives and achieved virtually nothing as the conflict enters its 12th year, the former Governor of Massachusetts will also signal his intention to keep U.S. troops in Afghanistan beyond the 2014 deadline – a war that was supposed to eliminate the very Al-Qaeda terrorists Romney and Obama now seek to arm in Syria.

    If that still doesn’t convince you there is no difference between Obama and Romney here is a list of 100 more reasons…

    http://ivn.us/2012/07/17/100-ways-mitt-romney-is-just-like-barack-obama/

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:17 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    and so does President Obama... [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:23 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell said about Romney:

    Romney does flip flop, true...which is admirable in some situations as a person should change based on principles instead of political winds.

    When I finally stopped laughing at the idea that Romney changed his positions on principle I realized that Darrell was right. He does change his positions on the principle of which way the political winds are blowing.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:07 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew stated...Mitt Romney is virtually a clone of Barack Obama. Romney vs. Obama, it really does not matter which one of them wins..... The following is an epic video which demonstrates very clearly how dramatically Mitt Romney has flip-flopped over the years

    Flip flopping is not the same in all situations. Some people flip flop because they have no moral principles and shift their positions based on which way the wind blows. In contrast, some change their positions as the variables change and evolve that they then apply to their sound principles that guide their decision making.

    For example, Bill Clinton was a master of shifting based on the political winds. One day he is liberal, the next conservative.

    I was very critical of Andrew's positions on 9/11. I was not supportive in any way. I thought Andrew was looney toons. However, when new issues were introduced, Andrew changed his tone and logically presented his case. I flip flopped and then supported Andrew, because new variables presented itself that fit my principles.

    Romney does flip flop, true...which is admirable in some situations as a person should change based on principles instead of political winds. It is not possible that Obama and Romney are virtual clones.


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:52 am on Mon, Oct 8, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Exactly! Glad you recognize my attitude is constructive.

    I realize all good things can end. I am just fine if they do as I can live in poverty and be very happy. Unfortunately, most people cannot be happy in poverty because of the dependent relationship the liberals have forced upon our society between the government and the people they should be serving instead of controlling.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:47 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    John you're talking to Andrew but there is no Andrew around.

    [sneaky][thumbdown]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:41 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    What happened to Dave Howard?
    What happened to the response(s) to Dave Howard?
    What offenses were made?
    Hey LNS what gives?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:00 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    The truth is that if you look at the history of what he has done (not what he now says), Mitt Romney is virtually a clone of Barack Obama. Romney vs. Obama, it really does not matter which one of them wins.

    The following is an epic video which demonstrates very clearly how dramatically Mitt Romney has flip-flopped over the years….

    http://youtu.be/uHSfnqho2jw

    The following is an epic video which demonstrates very clearly how dramatically Barack Obama has flip-flopped over the years...

    http://youtu.be/-Kw2-rmerZg

    Escape the false left/right paradigm sheeple, turn off your TV's and think.

    There is only one candidate who tells the truth... http://youtu.be/J4h-AcGVlCU

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 7:36 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1161

    "If Obama wins, I win big time based on what I value"

    Good attitude Darrell!


    [beam]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:48 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Mr Chapman said:

    The way to make healthcare affordable is to FORCE people to buy it (oops I meant tax it) or pay a penalty? Maybe on planet Mel Mac that makes sense, but not to anyone with a triple digit IQ.

    This is a falsehood. There are many people with an IQ over 100 that disagree with your statement.

    Your statement is an unwarranted personal attack on people who disagree with you ( I know been guilty of this one myself. I was wrong)


    Score this post
    Falsehoods 1
    Unwarranted personal attacks 1
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Mr Chapman's boxscore

    Posts 2
    Falsehoods 2
    Unwarranted personal attacks 2

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:06 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Not other people, ALL people, the American people, the people who care about others, the people who don't sloff it off on small charities and over whelm them, that believe we are all in this together, that even the most simplest of jobs support the success of America and deserve the group purchasing power of American investment to help them. Its like your home owners insurance everybodys got to have it and it keeps the cost down for everybody and your not likely to bum every one out when disaster hits you. BTW Robert have you had an IQ test lately to verify if you have that 3 digit one?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:13 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Chang stated...Darrell, you're sounding awfully desperate these days...

    Odd conclusion to draw Mr Chang. On a personal basis, I am more upbeat and confident in my future than ever. Since I know what is happening and have prepared many avenues of possibilities, I am extremely comfortable under most contingencies. If Obama wins, I win big time based on what I value. If Romney wins I win as well.

    I am like one of those squirrels saving food for the winter. I always prepare and have many options...

    Those who are prepared when opportunity knocks normally gain advantages. Sometimes tragedy opens doors to opportunity as well. Tragedy will be my gain as a consequence.
    I realize all good things can end. I am just fine if they do as I can live in poverty and be very happy.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 4:57 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    People think they are going to get healthcare paid for by "other people". Just wait unitl they discover they ARE the "other people". The way to make healthcare affordable is to FORCE people to buy it (oops I meant tax it) or pay a penalty? Maybe on planet Mel Mac that makes sense, but not to anyone with a triple digit IQ.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 3:09 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1161

    "laughing that he so easily fooled and trained his sheeple"

    Darrell, you're sounding awfully desperate these days...

    Romney "not" president can't help you...

    And your "treat" is almost ready...

    Remember, you can run (leave) but you can't hide


    [beam]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:53 pm on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Heuer stated...Obama"not" care for many is freedom. Freedom from pain, freedom from suffering, freedom from the burdon of unaffordable medical costs

    I 100% agree with Mr Heuer... most liberals are heart felt in expressing their perception of what the results of Obama"not"care are...

    "Ignorance is bliss"... comes to mind... Obama is laughing that he so easily fooled and trained his sheeple.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 11:40 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Strange. Its going to have many more oeople copying posts and filing them as Darrell does. It is amusing that a reply to the removed comment often reveals who the author was and the geneal topic.

    OK show of hands, how many are saying I can't believe I voted for Arnold Shwarz...for Gov

    OK show of hands, how many said I knew that was going to be a joke

    OK now do it again and be honest this time. After all he got elected.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:32 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Mr Lucas stated...Wow. You do not hear the words substance and character bandied about when talking about George W very often.


    Exactly!... you got one... that demonstrates how low Obama is.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:30 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Chang, in an oh so familiar state of mind eagerly stated...We already realize its over and are bent over just waiting for Obama's treat."...Get ready, hear it comes...

    You do realize when I said "we", that we meant you and the Kool aid drinkers who will not see it coming.

    [whistling]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 11:27 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Obama care for many is freedom. Freedom from pain, freedom from suffering, freedom from the burdon of unaffordable medical costs, freedom to not be denied insurance for pre existing conditions, freedom to not have to choose between their pills, their bills, kids tuitions for care, freedom to move to a new job and not fear losing your coverage.

    Only rich dudes could care less about having the necessties of life available to them.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:47 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Its OK John DB likes talking to himself and will continue shortly. He can't help himself nor can anyone else help him.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:43 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The comment cruncher crunched 4 but only showed 1

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:39 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1161

    Darrell in a rare honest moment:

    "Of course Mr Chang... Obama has it locked in the bag... relax, watch more cartoons and sip on a nice cool one.

    We already realize its over and are bent over just waiting for Obama's treat."

    Get ready, hear it comes...

    [beam]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:56 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Wow. You do not hear the words substance and character bandied about when talking about George W very often.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:54 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You can believe what you want but the facts speak otherwise.The housing bubble was already starting to burst and there is nothing anyone could have done about it. It is clear that The Republicans ignored the problem for 6 years. I will repeat what a Republican said about it.

    Republican Mike Oxley, the former chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, has pointed out that the House of Representatives did in fact pass a law strengthening regulation of the GSEs (the Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005) but the Bush White House scuttled it. In Oxley's words, "All the hand wringing and bedwetting is going on without remembering how the House stepped up on this. What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute."[151]

    They talked the talk but sat on their hands when they had the power to do something about it. The House and the Senate was controlled by the Republicans from 1995 till 2006. That is the history.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:04 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Heuer stated...I too found it odd that so many serious errors were made siteing someone elses minor errors and making accusations

    Personally, I could Kair less about speling air ors. I val-u ideas,concepts and finding solutions to problems.

    I find it much more troubling that so many Obama Kool aid drinkers abound in our society and so much prefer a person who has the ability to comprehend the damage that is being dun 2 America's standard of freedum bekuz liberals cannot see what is so obviously th-air..

    I was amazed at the liberal media sheeple who were so surprised by Obama's performance in the debate. For me, that was the expected empty suit that was there all along. Even George W offered more substance and character.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:01 am on Sun, Oct 7, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    John wrote:

    To believe that 15 months before the biggest crash since the great depression occurred because the Democrats took over Congress is absurd on the face of it.

    John,

    To believe that 15 months before the biggest crash since the great depression occurred because the Democrats had absolutely nothing to do with it is the greatest of absurdities.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:12 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    A fair point Andrew but the sad truth in my case is that my spelling would worse than Mr. Howards if it was not for spell check. Thank god for spellcheck! [smile]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:30 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The barriers were removed in 1999 and as Darrell pointed out signed by bill Clinton. A terrible mistake by all concerned as far as I can see. Though I suspect you approve.Listen to what Senator Dorgan said at the time. He was a man who saw the future.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/04/08/717702/-VIDEO-from-1999-Byron-Dorgan-vs-Gramm-Leach-Bliley-WOW

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:12 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    True, You think the Wall Street that caused the financial meltdown is over regulated and I think the opposite. You think that would make us a socialist place like Canada where the bank are Regulated like ours were before we did away with the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 which removed barriers in the market among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies that prohibited any one institution from acting as any combination of an investment bank, a commercial bank, and an insurance company. Oh, by the way, how many Canadian banks had to be bailed out? Zero, none, nada, zip.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:06 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    1883, "fastidious man," New York City slang of unknown origin.
    The vogue word of 1883, originally used in reference to the devotees of the "aesthetic" craze, later applied to city slickers, especially Easterners vacationing in the West (dude ranch first recorded 1921).
    SURFER SLANG application to any male is FIRST RECORDED C. 1970

    Nobody called each other DUDE in the 1960s. It was all "hey man", "check it out man" or "oh man your sh*tin' me." If I thought you had a sense of humor I would have guessed you were joking with "Rio Bravo."

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:50 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I have no idea what you are talking about, Brian. However, you and Mr Howard ruined any chances for Darrell to have a chance to beat his record of 13 post with no one answering or interrupting. Shame on you [smile]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:34 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    John wrote:

    Look at what they do not what they say. The Republicans have voted against all efforts to regulate Wall Street in lockstep.

    -Sorry to burst your bubble John.

    But in actuality. The Republicans have voted against all efforts to OVERREGULATE Wall Street in lockstep.

    The difference between your statement and mine are like comparing black to white.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:59 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Is this the same Dave Howard related to Lance Patterson?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 3:56 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    John,

    Which party do you think they are supporting now? Why it is the Liberal Democrat party?Why?It is because this is the party that rails against tort reform and heaven knows how can they perpetuate any type of swindle again if there is tort reform.

    I'm not one of your students you can indoctrinate, John.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:25 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Bill Maher knows what he is talking about as he uses facts, science, experiments ...

    Mr Maher stated...religion is a neurological disorder ( as he believes religious people are ignorant buffoons in his words)

    Mr Lucas stated...I do not think that religion is a neurological disorder and on a number of occasions has shared in his belief in god and his religion.

    Its funny, I am not religious in any way, and I think Bill Maher is a buffoon... I defend religious people often against people like Maher, yet a religious person in Mr Lucas appreciates Bill Maher even though Mr Maher thinks Mr Lucas is a buffoon... beam me up Scotty...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:51 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Chang stated... Dude, chillin wasn't in the 60's lexicon. Neither was dude.
    Use "groovy" and "man".
    Besides, what would you know about the 60's??

    Poor Mr Chang, was doen somethin that made his history timeline fuzzy... 1959 – In Howard Hawks's film Rio Bravo , Dean Martin was refered to as "Dude," the drunk deputy to John Wayne. Loved that film.

    As far as the sixties, did not watch Batman or Monkey's... when I was not in school, too busy working on the family farm like most poor farming families... no time for all that chillin...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:38 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Examples of more Republican regulations? ok... here is more...

    The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act (GLB), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, (Pub.L. 106-102, 113 Stat. 1338, enacted November 12, 1999) is an act of the 106th United States Congress (1999–2001). The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton.

    It repealed part of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933, removing barriers in the market among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies that prohibited any one institution from acting as any combination of an investment bank, a commercial bank, and an insurance company. With the passage of the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, commercial banks, investment banks, securities firms, and insurance companies were allowed to consolidate.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:30 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Do not listen to what they say, but what they do..

    After watching Obama's failed debate, it is obvious that following Mr Lucas's advise is appropriate. What Obama promised in his campaign and what he actually did was strikely different.

    His debate was so bad because he could not keep straight all the distortions and realities that he misrepresented.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:26 pm on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Do not listen to what they say, but what they do..( in reference to Republicans)

    Exactly!... let's look at regulations and legislation that Republicans wrote to provide structure in out society.

    Gingrich and his supporters pushed for passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, which was intended to reconstruct the welfare system. The act gave state governments more autonomy over welfare delivery, while also reducing the federal government's responsibilities. It instituted the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program, which placed time limits on welfare assistance and replaced the longstanding Aid to Families with Dependent Children program. Other changes to the welfare system included stricter conditions for food stamp eligibility, reductions in immigrant welfare assistance, and work requirements for recipients.

    Among the first pieces of legislation passed by the new Congress under Gingrich was the Congressional Accountability Act of 1995, which subjected members of Congress to the same laws that apply to businesses and their employees, including the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. As a provision of the Contract with America, the law was symbolic of the new Republican majority's goal to remove some of the entitlements enjoyed by Congress. The bill received near universal acceptance from the House and Senate and was signed into law on January 23, 1995.
    Gingrich shut down the highly regarded Office of Technology Assessment, and relied instead on what the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists called "self-interested lobbyists and think tanks".

    May 1997, Republican congressional leaders reached a compromise with Democrats and President Clinton on the federal budget. The agreement called for a federal spending plan designed to reduce the federal deficit and achieve a balanced budget by 2002. The plan included a total of $152 billion in Republican sponsored tax cuts over five years. Other major parts of the spending plan called for $115 billion to be saved through a restructuring of Medicare, $24 billion set aside to extend health insurance to children of the working poor, tax credits for college tuition, and a $2 billion welfare-to-work jobs initiative.
    President Clinton signed the budget legislation in August 1997. At the signing, Gingrich gave credit to ordinary Americans stating, "It was their political will that brought the two parties together."

    according to Wikipedia... above

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 11:10 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Yep

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:51 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    6 of these alleged fanatics are still alive. [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:37 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Ok , The vast majority of the Wall Street money is going to the Republicans this year with the emphasis on VAST MAJORITY.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:32 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Look at what they do not what they say. The Republicans have voted against all efforts to regulate Wall Street in lockstep.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:24 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Corzine is Obama's top 2012 bundler. [sleeping]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:22 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Geeze when Romney flip flops they all flip flop

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:21 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Applause to Walter

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:17 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Yes there are similarities
    Each need lots of money to fund their campaigns
    The campaigning is now endless
    Wall street bets on winners with donations expecting favors
    then hedges their bets with donations to the other party for favors
    They dress alike and talk political/legal speak so they appear the same
    but the partisan bickering and stalemates are because

    THERE ARE DIFFERENCES

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:07 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Why? It (Republican) is because this is the party that rails against financial regulation

    Fact check... 4 Pinocchio's... As future president Mitt Romney so well stated during the debates, America desperately needs regulations in order to have an orderly society that gives stability and structure for people to follow life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    With regulations, republicans know that fairness is more likely to be achieved.

    It is not that Republicans do not want regulations, it is a disagreement as to how complex, difficult and expensive liberal regulations are as so many are Federal in origin. Republicans favor regulation originating from states and cities from which people live. Liberals want to mandate and regulate everything and everyone from Washington. For example, Romney favors state run health plans but liberals want single payer federal regulations.

    Republicans want to simplify and streamline regulations evidenced by Meg Whitman whose campaign ran on this issue. How silly to think republicans fight against regulation.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:58 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    In 2012 Wall street has abandoned Obama as far a campaign donation go but your underlying point has merit

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 8:55 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1161

    "chillin"

    Dude, chillin wasn't in the 60's lexicon. Neither was dude.

    Use "groovy" and "man".

    Besides, what would you know about the 60's??

    You were just a punk kid.

    I imagine your best memories were of "Batman" and the "Monkees" on TV.

    ??


    [beam]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:55 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Obama’s 2012 campaign is reliant on Wall Street to an even greater extent than his 2008 campaign which was almost exclusively bankrolled by Wall Street firms including Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Citi Group and JP Morgan Chase.

    Romney contributors read like a Who’s Who of Wall Street. The top contributor is Goldman Sachs, followed by Credit Suisse Group, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, UBS, Citigroup, Wells Fargo and Barclays.

    Watching you guys argue that there is any difference between the two is comical...

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:55 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell what was 9-11 but a faith based initiative? This was 19 religious fanatics who thought by flying planes into buildings they were doing God's work.

    I do not think that religion is a neurological disorder but for religious fanatics like those described above it is certainly a psychological one.

    The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing combined with the stupidity of our people... this is true and I fall for that marketing myself

    I wish you would quit putting words in liberal mouths. They do not think everyone is stupid that is not a liberal is stupid.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:55 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Brian
    Define profitted. Cash in hand, campaign donations, donations to favorite charities, etc?
    The serious money went to Wall Street

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:48 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    John you are and remain the master

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:42 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The guys on Wall Street pocketed billions from their swindles and got billions more when they were bailed out. The politicians got campaign donations and what in comparison chump change and you say I am having an out on a limb moment. For the services they provide to their backers they are cheap indeed.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:33 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Looks like John is having an "out on a limb' moment.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:32 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    John Wrote:

    The money being made was not by the politicians but by Wall Street.

    -Chuckle,
    Do you really want to maintain your position there couldn't possibly have been any politicians (D or R) who profitted from this fiasco?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:25 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Brian stated...I would say I'm almost certain Ms. Bobin would never say Gore or Maher don't know what they are talking about.

    Mr Lucas followed...They are not right all the time but a vast majority of the time they know what they are talking about. They are Liberals. They believe in facts, science, experiments etc.

    Bill Maher stated...I think flying planes into a building was a faith-based initiative. I think religion is a neurological disorder.

    Humm, since Mr Lucas claims to be religious if he would agree with Mr Maher?

    Another Maher liberal positions... “The true axis of evil in America is the brilliance of our marketing combined with the stupidity of our people... yes, liberals everywhere thing everyone is stupid ...if they are not liberals.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:06 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Of course you are not surprised, in your world, you perceive it means something that in reality does not.

    Just what is it you think i mean Mr Lucas? if you are brave enough to articulate why you were not surprised, Ill then respond and demonstrate how your perception does not meet reality.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:43 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The money being made was not by the politicians but by Wall Street. The bundled mortgages they knew were bad, sold them to suckers, then bet against them with credit default swaps. When it all came tumbling down they went to their next sucker, the American taxpayer, and got bailed out.
    Which party do you think they are supporting now? Why it is the Conservative Republican party. Why? It is because this is the party that rails against financial regulation and heaven knows how can they perpetuate this sort of swindle again if they are regulated?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:30 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    My answer is the comment I posted in reply to Mr Chapman. Read it and especially the link to the article I linked to. While it is clear that both sides had a hand in the debacle the American people hired the Republican party and gave them the House , the Senate and the Presidency form 1001 till 2006 and they, by any rational standard did not do their job.I repeat two germane quotes:

    Here is barney Frank:
    Frank says, "Yes, I was wrong in 2003, but I wasn’t in charge...Remember, I was in the minority from 1995 to 2006. They were in charge." [150]
    Here is a Republican talking about the House's effort to regulate Freddie and Fannie:
    Republican Mike Oxley, the former chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, has pointed out that the House of Representatives did in fact pass a law strengthening regulation of the GSEs (the Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005) but the Bush White House scuttled it. In Oxley's words, "All the hand wringing and bedwetting is going on without remembering how the House stepped up on this. What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute."[151]

    If you read the below article you will see by 2006 the pie was already baked

    http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/04/wall-street-excerpt-201004

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:23 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Once the Democrats figured out how much money was being made in real estate their fillibustering was kind of a sell-preservation on their part. I have to agree with Mr. Lucas it was greed and corruption that led to the real estate debacle.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:07 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    John wrote:


    Brian said:

    Are youy saying the Real estate debacle had nothing to do with the financial meltdown?

    No she is just repudiating the mindless Conservative Republican talking point Democrats are responsible for the 2008 crash while the Conservative Republicans held the Senate and the House for 6 years and the Presidency 8 years previously. That dog just does not hunt.

    -John,
    How convenient for you to leave out the mindless Liberal Democrat talking point that Democrats could not possibly be responsible for the 2008 crash because the
    Conservative Republicans held the Senate and the House for 6 years and the Presidency 8 years previously. The Democrats constant filibustering during this time period was a major contributor to the crash. So, in a sense, the Democrats did nothing to prevent the 2008 crash. Not exactly something I would want to brag about.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:21 am on Sat, Oct 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I so much enjoy reading Mr Chang's posts. Brings back memories from the 60's when seeing a person sitting in a park smoking a reefer...if you approached this individual for a conversation, he would greet you by saying...

    Hey dooood, ...(puffff) howz it chillin... just like Mr Chang stating, Dude, you got nothing to worry about!! (puffff)

    ( disclaimer... not saying Mr Chang participates in anything illegal)

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:19 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Have you confirmed this with all 538 electors Mike? [sleeping]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:06 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    Another "birther" moment for Mr. Docktor who prays at the alter of Joe Arpaio, the greatest living American, according to Mr. Docktor.

    -I've never really got on the "birther" bandwagon.But Joe Arpaio has done a fine job of being a Sheriff here in Maricoipa County. He's been re-elected more than once. It's only the Joanne Bobin's who disagree with him because he dares to enforce immigration laws. Up until B.O. got into the White House and Napolitano became head of Homeland Security it was unthought of for a state to be sued by the Feds.
    Just goes to show one isn't immune from the stupidness of this current administration.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:34 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Your youtubes are interesting but here is barney Frank:

    Frank says, "Yes, I was wrong in 2003, but I wasn’t in charge...Remember, I was in the minority from 1995 to 2006. They were in charge." [150]

    Here is a Republican talking about the House's effort to regulate Freddie and Fannie:

    Republican Mike Oxley, the former chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, has pointed out that the House of Representatives did in fact pass a law strengthening regulation of the GSEs (the Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005) but the Bush White House scuttled it. In Oxley's words, "All the hand wringing and bedwetting is going on without remembering how the House stepped up on this. What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute."[151]

    The facts are clear. The housing bubble was greatly increased from 2001 to 2006 when the Bush Administration had control of the Senate, the House and the Presidency. Then the power to do something about and they did not. By 2006 it was too late.
    You are right that it should have been dealt with and who knows if the Democrats had been there they would have screwed it up too. In fact I think they would have screwed it up but the Republicans were hired by the American people and put into the position of power to do something about it and they did not. This cannot be denied

    Robert that is only part of the reason for the massive failure. Much of it belongs to wall street and how it is not regulated. They packaged bad mortgages together as securities, sold them to customers, and bet against them. Read this story about the guy who thought it up of how to do this. It is a great story. He made his client 725 million and a 100 million for himself and started from nowhere. The story of what happened is beyond politics of left and right. It is a story of greed and corruption.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/04/wall-street-excerpt-201004

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 6:23 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Eric, you might take a gander at these two clips. HELPING someone with home ownership is a far cry from doling out subprime and risky loans to unqualified mortagees. My dog could have qualified for a loan through Fannie Mae at one time.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTbIb75JdwY
    Banks that didn't follow suit making these awful loans were simply sued and forced to make them. Mr. Baxter is correct, Obama was an attorney in at least one of these suits, being Citibank.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 4:54 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1496

    And not one vote changed......

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:40 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    To believe that 15 months before the biggest crash since the great depression occurred because the Democrats took over Congress is absurd on the face of it. The mortgages which were bundled up and sold as securities were happening long before this takeover. The banks were at the same time bundling up these mortgages as securities, selling them to customers and betting against the same securities at the same time. AIG went down because they are in the insurance of securities business and lost a bundle paying out the banks, many foreign. The first mistake you are making is saying that all the mortgages were Fannie Mae and Fannie Mac when in fact they were not even a majority of the mortgages in the securities. The second and most obvious mistake you are making is saying this all started in 2007 when it had been going on for many years. These is a great story of the first guy who figured out the housing market was going to crash. He is a doctor who has made millions investing. In 2004 he was searching for a way to bet against these securities and found a way to do it. He had a following and they all got in on the crash and made millions. They made a documentary about him. he is all over the internet. Here is one article about him
    http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/04/wall-street-excerpt-201004

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 4:35 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1591

    Joe have you not seen the speech given by Bush supporting his Home of Your Own plan

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:15 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1903

    January 3rd of 2007 the DEMOCRATS took over the House and Senate and started the 110th Congress. The Dow was 12,621, GDP was 3.5%, unemployment was 4.6%.and America experienced 53 straight months of job growth. Jan. 3, 2007, Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES! Toxic loans that were made by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which eventually were dumped on the taxpayers was a direct cause of DEMOCRATIC control of these two lending institutions. George Bush asked Congress no less than 17 times to perform audits and declared their lending practice could be risky for the US economy, only to be stonewalled by the DEMOCRATS. Obama not only took the 3rd largest payoff from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae but he also voted against their audit and reform. Obama was one of the attorneys in a lawsuit that resulted in forcing CitiBank to make risky mortgage loans to unqualified borrowers. It s no secret what happened to CitiBank. Obama helped cause the problem of the economy he inherited but lays blame on Bush.The LIBERAL politicians insist it was all Bush's and the LIBERAL sheep still believe him. Pathetic.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 3:40 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1161

    "then make fun of the rich because it will be they who will have to pony it up"

    Dude, you got nothing to worry about!!


    [wink]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:37 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    A Poem fitting for
    Mitt "Karma Sutra" Romney -- 10,000 positions and and working people get sc----ed by all of them.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:22 pm on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell said:

    As far as the debates value, the content is not important to me as they are only words that can be changed.

    I am not surprised at this statement.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:46 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    I found the debate more of a case of "The Spider and the Fly."

    "Will you walk into my parlor?" said the Spider to the Fly,
    "'Tis the prettiest little parlor that ever you did spy;
    The way into my parlor is up a winding stair,
    And I have many curious things to show you when you are there."
    "Oh no, no," said the Fly, "to ask me is in vain;
    For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again."

    "Said the cunning Spider to the Fly, "Dear friend, what can I do
    To prove that warm affection I've always felt for you?
    I have within my pantry, good store of all that's nice;
    I'm sure you're very welcome - will you please take a slice?"
    "Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "kind sir, that cannot be,
    I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!"

    Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little Fly,
    Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by;
    With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew, -
    Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue;
    Thinking only of her crested head - poor foolish thing! At last,
    Up jumped the cunning Spider, and fiercely held her fast.
    He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den
    Within his little parlor - but she ne'er came out again!"

    Letting Willard Mitt Romney talk, telling his dismal lies the whole time, he will no doubt be caught in the web of public opinion and "ne'er (come) out again."



     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:41 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Herrick stated...The left is incapable of cogently arguing their position because there are rarely any facts to support it. Instead, they just spout the nonsense they heard on MSNBC or at some skate park as if it were true or rational; it's not.

    Based on the comments of this thread, Mr Herrick has been proven to be a wise and thoughtful man. Reading the lack of quality statements in this thread by the traditional liberal posters is in line with Mr Obama and his failed political debate.

    As Mr. Herrick so accurately wrote, It is the typical liberal argument of grammar school logic and no facts. The real Obama showed up at the debates for everyone to see without the smoke and mirrors, without the media filter that protects his every move. The only surprise is that Obama actually attended the debate. I guess he started to believe the fantasy the media as created...how predictable.

    As far as the debates value, the content is not important to me as they are only words that can be changed. What was important was the fact that it made clear that people should not trust tv filters or fantasy images... the debate lets unfiltered ideas and thoughts to surface so people can evaluate the personality of each candidate.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:35 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    I don't follow Al Gore, but saw his comments today. Ridiculous.

    I don't follow Bill Maher, but agree with him comment.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:33 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Another "birther" moment for Mr. Docktor who prays at the alter of Joe Arpaio, the greatest living American, according to Mr. Docktor.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:31 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Docktor wrote: "-You've really gone on a limb this time Ms. Bobin. Are youy saying the Real estate debacle had nothing to do with the financial meltdown? And, also are you saying only Republicans should be held accountable for the real estate debacle even though the Democrats Mr. Herrick speaks of above have never denied they made any mistakes?"

    What I was saying is that Dodd-Frank, if that was what Herrick was refering to in this letter, was passed during the Obama administration and had nothing to do with granting home loans to low income people. It was about Wall Street reform and banking reform.

    If you don't know how to read the newspapers, or the Internet, don't jump on someone's comment as if you are an expert.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:58 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "Americans just don't care about the things that really do matter."

    Exactly! [thumbup]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:29 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2367

    Nice thought Mr. Dockter, but Barack Hussein Obama is by no means "through."

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:28 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2367

    Two things regarding presidential debates:

    First, if Obama had done better on Wednesday night I am quite certain (beyond any reasonable doubt) that they would matter on this forum and elsewhere;

    Second, attempting to debate "quantitative easing" or any other complex economic issues would have forced most Americans to quickly reach for their remote controls in search of the latest and greatest "reality" show. They matter because most Americans do not vote because of the value of the dollar or what the Federal Reserve might do to change the course of our economic problems; they want to be entertained! They want to see the other guy stutter, stammer or deliver the next gaffe that will fill the airwaves and the Internet with nonsensical evaluations of why Biden (for instance) likes the idea of raising taxes by $1 trillion - and then make fun of the rich because it will be they who will have to pony it up.

    They matter because most Americans just don't care about the things that really do matter. The four-year "Obama Spending Extravaganza" proves that beyond all doubt.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:05 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    No it was not a way to give Obama a pass. It was a valid question based on Mr Romney's debate performance. Which unsolved mysteries about the President are you talking about? Could you be more specific? Maybe we could help you

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:00 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    No

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:52 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Brian said:

    Are youy saying the Real estate debacle had nothing to do with the financial meltdown?

    No she is just repudiating the mindless Conservative Republican talking point Democrats are responsible for the 2008 crash while the Conservative Republicans held the Senate and the House for 6 years and the Presidency 8 years previously. That dog just does not hunt.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:45 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    When we have guys like Ed Schultz saying in so many words Obama screwed up then we can pretty much conclude the cats out of the bag that Obama is through.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:44 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    They are not right all the time but a vast majority of the time they know what they are talking about. They are Liberals. They believe in facts, science, experiments etc.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:43 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    U6 isn't a new Irish rock band Mr. Heuer. It's the 14.7% unemployment number. [sleeping]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:43 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    How can we trust this outright liar and how many more Romneys will we see in the next 4+ weeks?

    -Chuckle,

    This is just another way of giving Obama, (the man of many faces we have yet to see because people like Ms. Bobin refuse to acknowledge there are many unsolved mysteries about him) a pass.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:33 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Mr. Kinderman:

    Regarding your post at 1:13 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    I would say I'm almost certain Ms. Bobin would never say Gore or Maher don't know what they are talking about.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:30 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    posted at 1:13 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:27 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Unemployment down to 7.8%

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:22 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    Mr. Herrick wrote: "As to our recent crash, one need only look to the actions of Cuomo, Dodd and Frank to find out how the Democrats sought to get people into housing who could not afford a down payment or monthly payments."

    I think this one paragraph clearly demonstrates the fact that Mr. Herrick has absolutely NO IDEA what he is talking about.

    -You've really gone on a limb this time Ms. Bobin. Are youy saying the Real estate debacle had nothing to do with the financial meltdown? And, also are you saying only Republicans should be held accountable for the real estate debacle even though the Democrats Mr. Herrick speaks of above have never denied they made any mistakes?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:17 am on Fri, Oct 5, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Exactly! [thumbup]

    In a 1 1/2 hour debate about the economy, the Federal Reserve was not mentioned a single time?

    In a 1 1/2 hour debate about the economy, the fact that the rest of the world is beginning to reject the U.S. dollar as a reserve currency was not mentioned a single time?

    In a 1 1/2 hour debate about the economy, quantitative easing was not mentioned a single time?

    I honestly don’t know how you can possibly have a debate about the economy without talking about the Federal Reserve, quantitative easing and the collapse of the dollar.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:22 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Jerome said:

    but if Obama is granted an additional four years where he's no longer restrained by another presidential election, the damage inflicted may be so severe it could take generations to fix it.

    I made the same statement in 2004 except I was talking about Bush. Then in 2008 it came true. (of course in your universe 2008 was caused by Barney Frank)

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 8:55 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2367

    It's not a "rant," Mr. Heuer. But we're in the middle of a political race where good debate should be celebrated. What's so wrong with taking a 2-line post and run with it? Just what did you expect - that there'd either be no response or just a "you win?"
    As for the focus on women's reproductive rights, I'm sorry but it's the left that have tried to use that as a political football. Parading poor, pathetic Ms. Fluke in front of Congress and the nation revealing her private life whining about being denied her contraception was not Mitt Romney's idea - that was clearly a lefty move.

    Finally, I along with many other Americans am waiting for the economy to improve. Wasn't it President Obama who opined that if he didn't turn things around in four years he would be a one-term president? To me that would mean if he actually believed that he would resign. Barring that, I would expect Americans to present him with a Presidential Pink Slip on November 6, 2012. Let's just wait and see if We the People have the collective backbone to send the Obama's packing in January. He failed.

    Anyway, there’s two more Presidential Debates ahead along with I believe one Vice Presidential Debate – now that’s the one that has me excited! Joe Biden and His Bag of Gaffes!! Comedy Central should be moderating that one. I wonder if he really knows how to spell "potato[e]."

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:35 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1339

    Debates? That matters soooooo... much.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:35 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1339

    I'm soooooooo... glad that y'all enjoyed the debates last night.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 7:13 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Romney has now put it out there a whole bunch of positions and lies and filp flops that are being used on Obamas campaign trail. The attack on Big Bird got the mosts tweets (no pun intended) of all remarks. Romney will now be held to these bogus statements and they'll be used against him. I really don't know how you can justify lying to people other than what you want is so distasteful to Americans they can't run on their actual intentions: dismantaling America. As I said he followed bad strategy. I call it the "Pearl Harbor" strategy where you do a sneak attack and revel in your initial victory but you only started the war you will ultimately get nuked from.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 5:32 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    I had no idea my 2 line post would would set you off on yet another Obama rant. It seems to be a repetion of what you've said before which is just blind anger since nothing new in specifis is offered. However I disagree of course and believe Romney is the one with the dangerous course. It will be unfortunate to lose all the efforts to bolster the economy and people thus far and destroy it with higher deficits and tax breaks for the rich. This is the same stuff Bush did. We did that. Where are the jobs? Conservatives only want to dismantal safety nets not fix the economy. It was revealing in 2010 when they campaigned on jobs but focused on womens reproductive rights. Not everybody is lazy and idle in the 47% after all this is America and we will always be Americans despite how much the campaign rhetoric portrays otherwise. And looking beyond race would go along ways in improving the discourse.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:11 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1161

    [tongue]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 3:50 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2367

    I'm sorry Mr. Heuer, but politically speaking there's very little that I've "enjoyed" regarding this president since he took office nearly four years ago.

    Last night's performance wasn't just awkward for Mr. Obama, it was pathetic. It could very well prove that insofar as being such a wonderful orator, he truly DOES need those technical marvels that give him the appearance of looking smart. I never thought he was.

    Americans need to get over the novelty of Barack Hussein Obama's characteristics and finally understand that he's nothing more than an average guy caught in a position beyond his capabilities.

    We need leaders, not people who can't think for themselves when the going gets tough. Is it too late? Well, as far as I'm concerned it's never too late - but if Obama is granted an additional four years where he's no longer restrained by another presidential election, the damage inflicted may be so severe it could take generations to fix it.

    Is Mitt Romney perfect? Of course not; but at this point in time we cannot continue to take the chance of more of what Obama has already done. It's time to move on from the failed Obama administration.

    We DO need to look beyond race, religion, gender or all those things that actually DO make us Americans. We need a Leader.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:38 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    He who laughs last laughs best. I think I am going to really enjoy the end of this morality play called an election.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:48 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    Good ad John

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:46 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    I have no doubt Obama is feeling that 2010 feeling "we took a thumpin"
    But enjoy the moment while you can...

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:38 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The problem with Mr Romney's win is how much he lied and disassembled in the debate. The Obama campaign has already put this ad out in the swing states

    http://youtu.be/eV5m1NxffEs

    This is just the first of many.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:13 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2367

    Now here’s an interesting opinion from the greatest of all environmental scientists on the planet, Al Gore: http://tinyurl.com/9cf4wtw.

    The reason Barack Hussein Obama didn’t fare so well last night had much to do with altitude in Denver. Yeah, right!

    Still, one of Obama's most staunchest supporters has a different opinion: "I can't believe i'm saying this, but Obama looks like he DOES need a teleprompter," comedian and Obama supporter Bill Maher tweeted. (Ibid.)

    And these coming from Democrats.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 12:37 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2367

    With just a month away from Election Day, I would think "aggressive tactics" would be the order of the day in all of these Presidential debates.

    Indeed, those of us supporting Romney have been waiting for him step up and actually fight for the White House. Considering that even some Obama operatives actually gave Romney the victory in last night's melee (see LNS's headline this morning), and from what I’ve read elsewhere I don't believe the president is all that happy today with last night's uninspiring performance. I would expect a much different tack from Obama to mimic much of how he's behaved since his campaign began over four years ago (he's never really left campaign mode).

    In short: Romney - 1; Obama - 0. And these debates DO make a difference. Remember Kennedy/Nixon, Bush/Dukakis and Reagan/Mondale.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:13 pm on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1661

    The debate was very telling. Romney had an attack mode which is reminiscent of salesmen or telemarketers who are prepard for your No answer and are ready with the follow up pitches. Thats when you realize this person is not going away. This puts people in the position of can I politely get this person to stop because we all experience a life time of training to not be rude which is hard to over come. Its a natural inclination. Thats one of the luxuries of getting old, we don't care. I always warn the pushy person "you're now forcing me to get rude."

    The maniacal aggressive posture of Romney was bad strategy for the first debate. He revealed his game early. It allowed him to again have no substance to claims like tax reductions won't raise the deficit without saying what is going to be cut to prevent that. He also managed to flip-flop on the amount of his tax cuts he's been campaigning on. Of course thats been all over the map.

    The more aggressive tactic would have been better in later debates. So Obama had a choice to return aggressive rebuttals and run the risk of having to look as rude and unpresidential as Romney or remain the adult in the room. For those old grumpy conservatives that hate Obama this had a titilating moment like the picture of Gov J Brewer in Ariz wagging her finger in Obamas faace. Thats as far as the moment went.

    There are many conservatives who like the bare knuckle approach to discourse and will feel this is a winning strategy. However the post discussions clearly show men tended to think Romney won the debate. I would have to admit Obama maintained composure but failed to counter the false or vague claims Romney made. No game changer but Romney campaign donations should benefit.

    Women were turned off to the aggressive antics of Romney seeing him as rude and bullying. A similar comment came from hispanics as well. So seeing this new Romney early only means the Obama team will have the next two debates to recaliber their game plan.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:51 am on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Lucas - more tax cuts to come despite Willard Mitt Romney's denial of that plan during last night's debate. Both Ryan and Romney have stated they will CUT taxes for the wealthy while declining to state what "loopholes and deductions" will be cut in order to make these cuts "revenue neutral" - then suddenly last night, with a straight face, Romney declared it was all false!

    How can we trust this outright liar and how many more Romneys will we see in the next 4+ weeks?

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:28 am on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1339

    This is the most intelligent thing I have ever seen you post.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:58 am on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Kill your TV! There is nothing more stupid, insidious and mind-numbing than the TV. Nothing will separate you from reality faster than television. If you have cable TV, cancel it. If you have satellite TV, disconnect it. Remove this insidious technology from your life or it will dominate your mind, your beliefs, your emotions and your reactions to everything that happens in the world. Television is a pathway to total zombification.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:49 am on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1339

    Foreign creditors hold all power to decide whether to crash the Fed or to allow it to exist.
    Easily, at least $100 Trillion of Federal Reserve Notes ("FRN") have been issued to foreign investors for the purpose of stabilizing the value of the US Dollar, since the creation of the currency stabilization by the 1934 Gold Reserve Act following FDR’s seizure of the gold from the people in March 1933, and by revaluation of the gold after its seizure.
    Instead of $100 Trillion, I would think more like $0.5 Quadrillion.
    Therefore, collapse of Fed would be spontaneous if foreign creditors (who hold FRN's) would spontaneously demand of US Treasury to honor its obligation behind these notes.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:32 am on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Mr Herrick said:

    liberals like Mr. Lucas argue, "Oh yeah, the debt went up under Republicans too!"

    Before Obama Financial Conservative Republicans put 78% of the debt upon our grandkids. Obama has a long way to especially if you add inflation into the calculation. The other difference is that Obama had not choice because of the depth of the financial disaster put upon him by Mr Bush and his Financial Conservative Republican policies. Reagan and the two Bushes hammered our grandkids with a mountain of debt to pay for the tax cuts for the wealthy. Those are the facts. That is the reality.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:32 am on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1339

    John Herrick: I see that you are under the belief of the accidental crashing of the stock market theory as was advocated officially in history, not the expiration of 70 years of bankruptcy reorganization protection, precisely in 1929, same as 1859, beginning in 1779 by the initial establishment of bankruptcy of a nation, as evidenced by the constitution for the USA, which was previously referenced in the Treaty of Paris, of which King George III was Arch Treasurer.

    If people look at what followed these significant events, it is plausible to ask if any of the events which followed were a bankruptcy re-organization by securitization of collateral. [In 1933, FDR seized the gold and silver from the people. In 1859, District of Columbia was incorporated as a subsidiary of the City of London, and it could be argued that the South was secured as collateral.]

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:23 am on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1339

    Creative writing. It only goes to show that find journalism in MSNBC is not any more credible than a skate park. I woulda never thought of that one.

    Thank you Ms. Bobin* for the inspiration, and yes, I do remember to thank people.

    [*Disclaimer that I don't like to use fiction names unless such people prefer. You, and anyone may call me "Daniel."]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 7:49 am on Thu, Oct 4, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Herrick wrote: "As to our recent crash, one need only look to the actions of Cuomo, Dodd and Frank to find out how the Democrats sought to get people into housing who could not afford a down payment or monthly payments."

    I think this one paragraph clearly demonstrates the fact that Mr. Herrick has absolutely NO IDEA what he is talking about.

    He cites "MSNBC or some skate park (????? - that should really tell all about his ability to think rationally), but his entire letter is straight from FOX News talking points. I'd be will be bet he is an avid fan of the three bimbos on FOX and Friends.

     

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