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Letter: Wealthy Americans pay the highest percentage in taxes

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Posted: Saturday, January 4, 2014 12:00 am

The interesting thing about John Lucas’s reply, “Economy would improve if the rich paid their share,” Dec. 18, 2013, to my reply, “President Reagan helped the economy grow,” Dec. 12, 2013, to his letter, “We need to get back to building a strong economy,” Dec. 10, 2013, is that he did not comprehend the nature of my reply.

To paint a picture, anyone who has studied B.F. Skinner’s operant conditioning using reinforcers (both positive and negative) to influence and modify behavior knows that ignoring certain behaviors and providing positive reinforcement for others is an appropriate strategy.

Mr. Lucas, in his reply, appeared offended and outraged that I ignored the points he “attempted” to make in his original letter about the rich and his perception that they do not pay their fair share in taxes. In reality, I was utilizing Skinner’s technique to ignore the majority of content that I felt had no merit or substance. I also was providing a negative reinforcement in chiding his obvious animosity for Republicans — Ronald Reagan and Mitt Romney.

He then writes a second letter focusing on his view of fairness. If Mr. Lucas had focused on the following, it may have added balance and perspective:

Wealthy Americans earn about 50 percent of all income, but pay 70 percent of the federal tax burden, according to the CBO. The middle 20 percent of income earners paid just 9 percent of federal taxes, less than two-thirds their share of income. By contrast, the top 1 percent paid over 22 percent of all federal taxes, while earning 13 percent of the income.

Lastly, only the rich pay death taxes. Generally the estate tax is due nine months after the date of death. If a person with $1 billion in assets died in 2013, his/her estate would have $397,900,000 in death taxes due. Isn’t that fair enough?

Darrell Baumbach

Acampo

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Welcome to the discussion.

75 comments:

  • Ted Lauchland posted at 9:34 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Ted Lauchland Posts: 254

    Wanna bet ?- and I do not smoke Thank You.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:22 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Wow, One thing you are good at obfuscation. What I am saying is simple, logical and obvious to any thinking individual and your post does nothing to prove otherwise. It is, however, a great instruction on how to blow smoke. Nice try

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 11:14 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1364

    "In a progressive system, such as the United States federal tax code, the percentage of taxation increases as income levels increase. In a regressive system, all consumers pay the same dollar amount, regardless of income level."

    http://www.ehow.com/info_12073457_pros-cons-regressive-taxation.html

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 11:06 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1364

    "Stupid Pet Tricks” and later "Stupid Human Tricks” were popular segments on Late Night with David Letterman. Ads ran in the New York Times classifieds that carried this headline: HAVE YOU TAUGHT YOUR PET TO DO SOMETHING ODD? If you let liberals talk long enough, they’ll start saying a lot of stupid things. No advertisements soliciting their stupidity are needed.

    http://godfatherpolitics.com/4919/stupid-things-liberals-say-to-protect-their-bankrupt-worldview/

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:15 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Your ignorance on climate change puts you in a rivalry with Mr. Baxter. A race to see who is the most ignorant is not a good race to be in.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:13 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Of all the unintelligent remarks you have made in the past this is perhaps the greatest. Among real scientists with peer reviewed studies there is no doubt that climate change is real and happening now. The only question is how fast and how bad. You are on the level of those who believed the earth was flat and sun rotated around the earth. You should really be quiet about climate change as you are only showing your stunning ignorance for all the world to see.

     
  • Ted Lauchland posted at 10:09 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Ted Lauchland Posts: 254

    Way back when during my college years I took a class on taxes. The first thing the instructor said was I will teach you the basics and current rules for they WILL change again for next year. Multiply that by 15 billion years and what do you have?

    I would venture to guess that Mr. Lucas doesn't have a clue what the current tax code says.

    As shared by an accountant friend of mine there are different entities assigned different tax rules and rates. One of which is monies that are left in a business are taxed at a higher rate than an individually declared income. The list is long on the taxes assessed on business entities which for large businesses can be overwhelming i.e. - inventory taxes, employee tax matching, etc. What can be absorbed as an expense on an individual basis at a lower rate can and is done.

    Even though the business itself may be owned by an individual , family or investors and is considered their portfolio their individual taxed income my not show the burden the business faces.

    The burden of proof is placed upon the business as to the tax legality of all of it. The inheritance arguments are all for the intent of not only keeping a successful business intact and in the family but to keep the government from coming in and taking it for it's own purposes forcing it to be changed to cash so they can reap to redistribute. Change it to cash and it no longer produces anything. Just how does that help the economy?

    I suppose it might provide the opportunity for someone else to step in and start it all over again. A foreign entity quite often steps up and purchases the business to get it out of debt as is currently witnessed again and again. Foreign countries are showing their wealth right now at the expense of the U.S. ( us, us , us) 's foolishness. Then the employees face that issue. A company does not have to move to be a problem for it's employees.

    As an inheritance family if you are smart enough and your parents had enough forethought to help you keep it intact you can continue to be a benefit to society whether some out there are too overly absorbed by their view of "injustice" or not.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:05 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I never advocated anything of the sort and you know it. Why are you always lying about what others are saying? Do you have any sense of honor?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:03 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I am glad you understand the difference between progressive and regressive taxation. As all conservatives call for regressive taxation such as the VAT tax are you saying that conservatives are advocating communism?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:45 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    OHHhh, now I get it. Gas stations with designated pumps marked with a gas tax according to your income. Great idea. A pump for the minimum wage earner with low tax, another for the middle class with medium tax and yet another for the wealthy with extremely high tax. What an easy fix. I think Mr. Lucas should send a letter to Obama with this very obvious and simple solution. Perhaps Obama will appoint him "Gas Pump Czar".

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:55 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    In a progressive system, such as the United States federal tax code, the percentage of taxation increases as income levels increase. In a regressive system, all consumers pay the same dollar amount, regardless of income level. Making everyone essentially the "SAME" is called Communism Mr. Lucas.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:25 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Al Gore said, “the entire North ‘polarized’ cap will disappear in 5 years.”
    [rolleyes] http://youtu.be/MsioIw4bvzI

    His new mansion in Santa Barbara has six carbon burning fireplaces Mr. Lucas! Isn't the hypocrisy a little thick?
    [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:32 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    So that would make it right that the uber wealthy pay less by percentage than a minimum wage worker or anyone in the middle class? Not the best argument I have ever heard.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:29 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    A typical conservative answer to a very urgent problem. Off the point and ignoring the reality of the problem.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:27 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Please do not put words in my mouth. There is nowhere in my comments that you can infer that I think governments control all the wealth. I see that you think the uber wealthy should. I only advocate that they pay their fair share of the tax burden. I do not think it is right that they pay less by percentage than a person on minimum wage or anyone in the middle class. Nothing more nothing less.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 12:07 pm on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    So funny that the research vessel sent to Antartica to research "global warming' winds up getting stuck in ice as does the rescue vessel. I wonder what they found to support the man made global warming? NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING. Poor Al Gore is going to have to find another scam to make money.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:49 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    As usual, completely missing the point. The point being that the uber wealthy pay by percentage less than the middle class. Yes the tax is the same but to figure out the percentage you have to include the income The gas tax like sales taxes are regressive taxes because the affect those on the lower end of the income scale is more pronounced. The lower income scale people pay by a larger percentage of their income to these taxes as do the uber wealthy. This beside their lobbyists and bought politicians is how they get away paying a lower percentage of their income to taxes as YOU DO. I know, as a Conservative, you enjoy and support getting cheated by the uber wealthy but those with a little intelligence, common sense, and a sense of fair play do not. What kills me about people like you is that you seem to enjoy being cheated. I do not.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:04 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    NOT TRUE but when you are confronted with facts that you cannot dispute, you simply continues to ignore them.
    [sleeping]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:02 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    The TAX on the gasoline is still the same. [sleeping]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:57 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Perhaps you should begin a nationwide campaign ban carbonated beverages Mr. Lucas. [rolleyes]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:07 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    When you cannot refute an argument go personal. You are so predictable.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:04 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Your analogy does not hold water. I am saying that the engine that is this economy produces income. Money has to be paid back to keep the infrastructure of the engine running in the form of taxes and fees. It is an indisputable fact that when all taxes are considered the uber wealthy pay less in percentage than the middle class or even those on minimum wage. They are moochers who force the rest of us to make up the difference and pay higher taxes. That is the reality of the situation.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:56 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Climate change is real and is caused by man putting too much carbon in the air. Just because you are unable to think logically and see the truth does not make it any less real. The only question is how bad is it going to get and how fast. When you deny this you are showing the world that you annoy think logically.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:51 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Ed says:

    The point I made is that the top 1% DO pay over 50% of the taxes collected so you will have to live with it.

    They do not and it is not even close. If you think that the top 1% pay 50% of all taxes(FICA, gas, sales, property taxes etc) you live in a fantasy world and I do not have to live with your delusions. Get real.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:08 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "Stupid Pet Tricks” and later "Stupid Human Tricks” were popular segments on Late Night with David Letterman. Ads ran in the New York Times classifieds that carried this headline: HAVE YOU TAUGHT YOUR PET TO DO SOMETHING ODD? If you let liberals talk long enough, they’ll start saying a lot of stupid things. No advertisements soliciting their stupidity are needed.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:49 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    When a person on minimum wage pays the taxes on $10 worth of gas it is a much greater percentage of his income than someone who is very rich. Even an 8th grader should be able to work that out.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:46 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are right when considering income taxes but they still pay less by percentage when you consider all taxes and fees.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:44 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    as usual you make my point

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:43 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:40 am on Tue, Jan 7, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2821

    John stated:

    Why do we let the uber wealthy pay less by percentage in taxes than working people?

    -Sentiments like this are why the distorted interpretation of the uber wealthy lives on.
    Let's create a scenerio where John is one of those uber wealthy. But don't expect John to acknowledge any time soon that the uber wealthy have worked very hard to get where they are at. Perhaps he doesn't care how much the uber wealthy keep the world's economies afloat much better than the governments of the world and they should be given a break. Frankly, I doubt this thought has even entered his mind. It is counter-intuative to his belief that governments should have control of all the wealth and not the uber wealthy.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:22 pm on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    A person with a $100k income buys a $30k car it cost him 30% of his income. If a person with a $300k income buys the same car, it cost him 10% of his income. Simple arithmetic. According to Mr. Lucas's "thesis", the man with a $300k income should pay $90k for the same car the $100k earner purchased for $30k so the man with the higher income would be paying same percentage? And this is logic? Naw, this is absurd.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:59 pm on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Thesis? More like LIBERAL whining.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:39 pm on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Ed, you are so right. The liberal lemmings stick together in their attempts to steer the ship into the icebert. Iceberg? Oh my, how can that be in this GLOBAL WARMING world that has scammed billions of dollars out of the taxpayer pockets. Liberals will believe anything as long as St. Barry O utters the words..

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:35 pm on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Hah, what a crock. Most of your "valid" points aren't worth the time it took you to type them.

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 5:07 pm on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    the old dog Posts: 489

    Bobin, First of all I don`t consider myself a slacker, perhaps you are since you brought up the word, we are all part of the 99% as far as taxes are concerned. and collected. Lucas, why yes this is a simple discussion, ment for simple people. You say why do we let the wealthy pay less, you must remember we are part of the 99% and don`t have an answer, you mention WE, do you have a mouse in your pocket. My post got your attention, I also believe I made a contribution to the discussion, the way you posted back you do also. The point I made is that the top 1% DO pay over 50% of the taxes collected so you will have to live with it. Read other posts, they are just a counter attack, from them to you.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:50 pm on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    NOT TRUE. If you actually read the report rather than just it's title you might figure that out.

    Please explain how a "minimum wage worker" pays a different state tax, gas tax, or sales tax than a "uber wealthy" worker.

    I can't wait. [lol]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:43 pm on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Ed, why is it when you have nothing to say on an discussion you go right into personal attacks? This is a simple discussion. Why do we let the uber wealthy pay less by percentage in taxes than working people. I am just pointing this out. You might try saying that they should pay less or try to prove they do not (good luck with that). All you do is complain, whine, GRIPE and make personal attacks. Why don't you add something to the conversation instead of just GRIPING and making personal attacks. Try something new, make a contribution to the discussion with a well reasoned argument.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:34 pm on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    You do know that YOU are in "the other 99%," right, Ed?

    I'm surprised that you are admitting that your are a slacker!

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:11 pm on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The title of the CBO report you gave us is:

    The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2010

    It is not talking about state taxes, gas taxes, FICA taxes, sales taxes etc. Do you ever get anything right?

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 11:55 am on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    the old dog Posts: 489

    Anytime a post is presented that offends Lucas or Bobin they jump in with both feet. I haven`t seen anything by either one concerning a skate board park, can`t argue with the truth and they know it. Now that Darrell has added his post, both gripers are happy as they present their opinions to the ever present 1% and taxes. Well I have solved the problem, let all the posters that complain the most about the rich and their 1% take their place, either Republican or Demo`s. Remember the rich keep this country going, if the coffers of this country were filled by the other 99% we would all be on Barry`s unemployment program, which I understand has come to an end as of Saturday leaving many people without any source of income. As Jack Nickelson said in the movie, A Few Good Men, you gripers can`t stand the truth.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:36 am on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    The CBO report is true and it is NOT just talking about income taxes.

    Oh, I forgot, you are Mr. Lucas. My bad.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:24 am on Mon, Jan 6, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I do not believe you are stupid but if you continue to misstate my argument you will leave me no choice. Try to get it through you head that we are talking about all taxes and fees paid to the government by individual taxpayers. You keep bringing up income taxes and the CBO report you bring up is only about income taxes. This is tantamount to lying. You are deliberately distorting reality to try to make a point and it is dishonest to do so. Oh, I forgot, you are a conservative. Sorry, my bad as it is expected.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:27 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Is it not amazing that Brian, Darrell, Mr Baxter, Mr Kindred have made no argument that holds water against my thesis which is the following:

    The uber wealthy pay less by percentage of their income in taxes when all taxes and fees are considered.

    They cannot make any counter argument as it is the truth. They make a feeble attempt by considering income taxes only and making personal attacks. After all this is the Conservative way. If you do not have the facts make up stuff, create straw men arguments and go personal.

    I wish they would just be honest. They think the uber wealthy should pay less in taxes by percentage. I will not hold my breath and wait for them to tell what they really think.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:57 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I made no talking points. I made arguments. I know as a conservative you do not know the difference. Your comment is a talking point as it does not address the issue at hand. My arguments about my thesis that the uber rich do not pay as much as the middle class by percentage(all taxes not just income taxes) are the facts and you have no comeback except talking points as did Darrell and Brian. Your attempts at logical argument are pathetic.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:50 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You cannot address them so you make comments like this. You do not fool anyone.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:39 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The CBO report is true but it is just talking about income taxes. You can read , can't you? We are talking about all taxes and fees paid to the government. Please try to pay attention to the argument. Oh, I forgot, you are a Conservative. My bad

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 3:06 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Do you know what the amount of the "exemption" for estate tax is, per heir, Mr. Kindseth? Along with all the other property that is excluded?

    Look it up.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 3:05 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "honest?" You mean about those Caymen Island accounts?

    Chuckle.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 3:02 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumbach MADE his "knowledge" of B.F. Skinner the focus of his letter, using it as an attempt to ridicule Mr. Lucas and attempt to give a "reason" why he did not directly address the discrepancies he had with Mr. Lucas's arguments.

    Your comment is invalid, as usual, Mr. Dockter.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 3:00 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    So why don't YOU interpret it, Mr. Dockter?

    Baumbach's conclusions and made-up "percentages" are completely bogus.

    It's not my job to tell you what's wrong with them if YOU can't figure it out yourself.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:58 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Not a valid comment. Mr. Lucas's insightful comments regarding Baxxter and Baumbach were right-on and had nothing to do with whether the CBO report was correct or not.

    Baumbach's convoluted interpretation of it, however, is another matter.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 12:03 pm on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1364

    "Mr. Baumbach's first mistake here is to attempt to make himself look like some sort of intellectual by mentioning B.F. Skinner (and miserably failing to interpret Skinner's theories correctly).".....This pretty much says it all.

    Funny how the cons always seem to use terms like "liberal" as an insult. Maybe we could utilize some sarcasm and refer to them as "educated".

    I guess Darrell has given up attempting to use "Duc Pham" or what ever it was as a way to sneak back here so he could continue to post his half-truths, lies, innuendo, and ignorance. Unfortunately for the country, there are still many like him, even here.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 11:32 am on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2821

    Mr. Lucas stated:

    While Mr. Baxter is the prime example of the modern so-called Conservative meanness of spirit Darrell is the prime example of the modern so-called Conservatives inability to sustain or engage in reasoned argument.

    -Mr Lucas,

    Just because you find the CBO report unreasonable does not mean the report is untrue.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 11:27 am on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2821

    Ms. Bobbin stated:

    As for your interpretation of the CBO report, it is just as convoluted as your declaration of using Skinner.

    -Chuckle,

    She never gives up. She's just angry Mr. Baumbach won't interpret the CBO report that is counter-intuative to what it states.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 11:22 am on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2821

    Ms. Bobbin stated:

    FYI - Mr. Baumbach - Skinner did not employ an "ignore" strategy in his theory. Best go back and try to "study" Skinner again and maybe get it right.

    -Yet another attempt by Ms. Bobbin to divert our attention away from the issue at hand, in this case, the CBO report is very accurate. Perhaps she should take the CBO to task instead of Mr. Baumbach.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 10:14 am on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Walt Posts: 1112

    "Many of us here miss you..."

    I know I do!!!!!

    [lol]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 10:10 am on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Walt Posts: 1112

    "To paint a picture..."

    Darrell's the master of sophistry.

    He mentions B.F. Skinner but the methods he uses are purely Saul Alinsky!

    In his parable of the "dead rich man" for example...

    If he really wanted to add balance and perspective he would of shared how the "dying rich" protect themselves from "death taxes" through various mechanisms. Like early distributions of supposed inheritance to heirs, investment schemes, "business" partnerships, tax loop holes, over seas bank accounts and more! But he can't, that would only boost John's argument.

    Isn’t that fair enough? No

    Happy New Year Darrell

    [smile]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:53 am on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2821

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/17186-cbo-report-the-rich-pay-most-of-the-taxes-the-poor-get-checks

    CBO Report: The Rich Pay Most of the Taxes; the Poor Get Checks

    -I believe it's fair to say Ms. Bobbin and Mr. Lucas will go to the extreme to avoid facing up to the fact the very wealthy are generally very honest about their incomes given how much taxes they pay.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:42 am on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2821

    Ms. Bobbin and Mr Lucas,

    So I take it if you two were very wealthy you two would avoid trying to reduce your tax burden?

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 12:14 am on Sun, Jan 5, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    The tax rates for the upper tier are currently at the same level they were during the great depression after Reagan lowered them when he came to power. That was the beginning of the end of the most prosperous decades in US history that built the American infrastructure and created the middle class with full employment and income equality. Lowering the tax rates for the upper tier the way Reagan did fails to allow a balanced tax burden regardless of what the current CBO repots that wealthy Americans earning about 50 percent of all income are paying 70 percent of the federal tax burden. There are many aspects to take into account when assessing the taxes of wealthy people compared to middle and lower class people in order to avoid a funneling of most of the nation's wealth into the hands of a tiny minority of uber rich people like we have today and as we had leading up to the Republican Great Depression of the 1930s.

    In his NYT Op-Ed, The Social Contract, Paul Krugman writes: "On one side, we have the claim that the rising share of taxes paid by the rich shows that their burden is rising, not falling. To point out the obvious, the rich are paying more taxes because they’re much richer than they used to be. When middle-class incomes barely grow while the incomes of the wealthiest rise by a factor of six, how could the tax share of the rich not go up, even if their tax rate is falling?"

    As a matter of fact, the wealthiest Americans are paying more of the taxes now than they were before because now they're taking that much more of the nation's income. The rising share of taxes paid by the top 1 percent in the past three decades is not evidence that the rich are now overtaxed; it's evidence of rising inequality.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:43 pm on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Perhaps someone could and would address your arguments IF you had valid ones.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:40 pm on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    You mean like regurgitatin tired left wing talking ponts, most of which are created in liberal fantasy land.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:35 pm on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    [thumbup]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:35 pm on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumbach was at least smart enough to get out when he realized his tired arguments made no sense.

    Now he's much happier advocating and selling "medical tourism" in Thailand and selling travel insurance to those who are gullible enough to trust his "medical" advice. And since most of the procedures are NOT covered by local health insurance plans, it is easy to guess who takes advantage of these surgeries - right - those with the TENs of THOUSANDS in cash in their pockets.

    All of the above, by the way, from his OWN words in many, many of his past comments.

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 12:14 pm on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    One of the many unfairness issues of the "death tax" is that it is often levied on property, such as a business, farm etc. and the survivor has no cash to pay it. Hence the government reaps a windfall from a family's destruction.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:43 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You and Mr Baxter always bring up this moronic thing about their should be a difference between a rich Democrat or a rich Republican. This is a strawman argument and has nothing to with the argument at hand. You, Darrell, and Mr Baxter seem to think that the uber rich should pay less by percentage than those who earn a fraction of of the uber rich income. None of you has made any argument that my thesis, that the uber wealthy pay less by percentage. You seem to think this fair and good for the country.I wish one of you would address my argument in a clear and logical way supporting your position. Oh, I forgot you are Conservatives and spouting tired inane, off the point Republican talking points or making personal attacks is how you roll. Sorry, my bad.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:30 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Would you mind enlightening us with you magnificent command of logic why they should pay less by percentage than those who make a fraction of their income? We are all ears but we will not hold our breath waiting for a logical reason.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:29 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    That is a really good reason they should pay less taxes by percentage than a middle class person? Would you mind enlightening us with you magnificent command of logic why they should pay less by percentage than those who make a fraction of their income? We are all ears but we will not hold our breath waiting for a logical reason.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:20 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Darrell is correct. Mr. Lucas's position has absolutely "no merit or substance."

    What exactly is it that moves Mr. Lucas to argue so vigorously in the face of reality?

    He continues to claim "There is no one who disputes that the uber wealthy pay less in percentage than someone making $116,000 a year" when in reality higher-income households pay much more in federal taxes than do their lower-income counterparts.

    According to the CBO his "thesis" is NOT TRUE but when he is confronted with facts that he cannot dispute, he simply continues to ignore them. It's ridiculous!

    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44604-AverageTaxRates.pdf

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:28 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2821

    Darrell,

    Many of us here miss you taking Lucas and Co. to task in the comments. I can understand why you have refrained from this. But, from time to time you should comment. It's fun to see how it just encourages their insanities even more.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:22 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2821

    Great letter Darrell,

    Fat chance we'll ever have any rich liberal Democrats confirming what you state in your piece. Actually, give them enough time. They'll find a way to make it seem like it's only rich Republicans who don't pay enough taxes.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:00 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumbach's first mistake here is to attempt to make himself look like some sort of intellectual by mentioning B.F. Skinner (and miserably failing to interpret Skinner's theories correctly).

    FYI - Mr. Baumbach - Skinner did not employ an "ignore" strategy in his theory. Best go back and try to "study" Skinner again and maybe get it right.

    If you want to explain why you "ignored" the core issues that Mr. Lucas was, as you called it, "attempting to make," then you should simply say "they were without merit BECAUSE...." It is laughable that, in your attempt to ridicule Mr. Lucas, you pretend to be employing a psychological theory of behavior modification.

    If "IGNORE" was a valid method of modifying someone's behavior, and one that Skinner NEVER employed, then most of the LTE writers in this forum would have gone away a long time ago, including yourself.

    As for your interpretation of the CBO report, it is just as convoluted as your declaration of using Skinner. Best go back and review the reasons why you stated your "percentages" the way you did - which are quite meaningless. Just a bunch of statistical nonsense that proves nothing.

    As for estate taxes, the wealthy have more means and loopholes to avoid paying them at all and/or severely decreasing the amount payable. Paying taxes on a ONE BILLION DOLLAR estate? WAHHHHH!

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:48 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    If the all of the "1%'ers" the liberals love to scream about were taxed at 100% of their income, it wouldn't make a dent in our debt. Wishful thinking, at best.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:23 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    While Mr. Baxter is the prime example of the modern so-called Conservative meanness of spirit Darrell is the prime example of the modern so-called Conservatives inability to sustain or engage in reasoned argument. When confronted with my arguments like Pavlov's dogs he regurgitates tired right wing talking points which have nothing to do with argument at hand. We are lucky to have two fine examples of the modern so-called Conservatives right here on our forum.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:24 am on Sat, Jan 4, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell you did not address any of the arguments that I made so I must assume you agree that the very wealthy as individuals pay less in percentage than a minimum wage worker. There is no one who disputes that the uber wealthy pay less in percentage than someone making $116,000 a year

    BTW, A person inheriting a billion dollars by your own admission pays 39.8% in taxes on this income. That is less than the person making $116,000 when you take all the taxes the middle class person has to pay( FICA, Federal, State etc). Thank you for making my point. It is always good to have an ally in an argument.

     

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