16 comments:

• Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:09 am on Sat, May 14, 2011.

  Posts: 9403

  Pat,Jerome and Kevin...
  I have stated many times that I am not religious... but I must say, every time I read your posts when they involve thoughts, ideas, and perceptions concerning god, morality, human behavior, and salvation, I find them very interesting, thought provoking and compassionate ... to me... you all are fortunate to have the ability to make some sense of it all and sharing it with others. Thank you!

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• Patrick W Maple posted at 9:13 pm on Fri, May 13, 2011.

  Posts: 1795

  KP: I agree on choices. I also agree on the paths men take. I too agree that celebrating the death is wrong...but for a different reason...as I have stated before, the continued media coverage and conversations do nothing but elevate his stature. As I also stated before, he chose, created and executed his evil until the non-evil arrived.

  I am concerned about the prying of people into the circumstances and the danger it puts the brave young men and their families in. In today's world it is too easy for information to be gathered and leaked to others who would do evil deeds.

  
  If I petted every puppy I saw and was caught kicking just one...would that make me an evil person or someone who has committed a wrong? You would agree (I believe) that it was a mistake...once...but if you continued to catch me kicking puppies...I think your opinion of me would change.

  JK: Good points. I do believe God created everything...including good and evil for a reason. The universe is based on negatives and positives, yes and no, good and bad.

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• Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:44 pm on Fri, May 13, 2011.

  Posts: 2031

  It would depend upon whose eyes you would be looking through, Mr. Paglia. Using your example about kicking puppies (which can be applied to other “sins” as well), even though you may have changed your path in life, there are those here on Earth who would never see you as anything but a person who abuses helpless animals - and they could easily (and rightfully) describe you as evil. You might also still be answerable to the laws of society providing the statute of limitations hadn't run its course. Yet there are others who might eventually view you differently; but it would probably take a great deal of time before they’d trust you around their puppies.

  As Christians however, just changing one's behavior doesn't make you blameless in God's eyes either. The gift of salvation must first be received before it can be applied to what we've done. Furthermore, although only God can see into your heart to determine the genuineness of the gift that you claim to have received, it is by your future actions other Christians will discern just how “real” a Christian you are.

  Still, we are to answer to two authorities: God and man. Which is more important? Although I am not Catholic, I think as far as their doctrine is concerned, since they use the confessional as the way to atone for Earthly sins, both carry the same weight. As a Christian I agree – and that’s why it is not a simple thing to accept God’s gift of salvation – it IS conditional.

  Now when it comes to the Hitlers and bin Ladens of the world, just their names will always be synonymous with evil. But then again if the final thoughts in their minds were to accept forgiveness through the gift of salvation, they too would be granted everlasting life in Heaven with God. Of course I understand that there would be many who would vehemently disagree – but as Christians, this is a seminal part of our faith.

  But like you Mr. Paglia, upon learning of bin Laden's death, I found it difficult to jump up and down with glee. Perhaps I knew that even though the 21st Century's "baddest boy" (so far) was dead, the consequences of what he had done are still with us - those he killed are still dead; the changes in how we live will be unlikely to ever return to "normal" simply because he was killed. I actually wondered out loud (in an empty room), "ok, what's next?" And I realized that I had no answer that would make me feel better about all that had changed and happened since that fateful day in September 2001.

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• Kevin Paglia posted at 5:11 pm on Fri, May 13, 2011.

  Posts: 1729

  Sorry Pat, i disagree with you. Evil is a choice. A person has to Choose to do things they know are wrong. Planning the bombing of buildings is evil in any culture, but it was a choice to plan it. The wonderful Gift of Choice that God gave us allows to choose to be good or evil. OBL choose his action and continued on a line of choice that was evil. But if he had chosen at any time to reverse his chosen path and use his natural gifts then he would not be evil any more. He would be a man who had done evil things in the past.

  maybe the difference is that I see a difference between the choice and the person. The choices we make lead to actions which others can decide are good or evil. Those actions can come to define who we are, not who we could be.

  Let's take an example: If I walked around for 30 years kicking every dog I saw people may say I am an evil man. But then one day, after all that time, I realized the evilness of my action and changed my ways. Started using my free time to help at the animal shelter rather than kicking puppies, would I still be evil?

  OBL could have at any time up until the SEALS found him released a statement calling for his followers to lay down their arms and work towards understanding. One single choice by him could have changed the world as we know it. Yes, there would still be terrorists who didn't listen, but many of his followers could have followed him on a path for peace. He would have been a man who had DONE evil things, but providing he committed to a path of peace, could have died a man trying to do good.

  Don't get me wrong, He was firmly set on a path of evil and a bullet was most likely for the good of world, but celebrating the death and the wasted life shows how vindictive the world has become.

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• Patrick W Maple posted at 4:26 pm on Fri, May 13, 2011.

  Posts: 1795

  JK: Thanks for the stand-up! RJ: Gooood point!! KP: I politely disagree with your premise...evil is evil and shall never be anything but evil...because it is only found to be evil after the fact or the damage has been done. Evil is out there...always has been...always will be.

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• Kevin Paglia posted at 8:22 am on Fri, May 13, 2011.

  Posts: 1729

  Ms. Bobin: The Catholic Church teaches that no murder should be celebrated and that all life is precious. To cheer or mock the death of a very gifted leader who fell so far from what could have been a positive historic legacy is not productive. If he had used his charisma and natural leadership abilities to promote harmony think of what a different world we would live in.

  Instead cheering his death, as Americans we should be reaching out and saying (to the affect of) "this is a tragic end to a tragic series of events. The only way to prevent such a horrific chain of events in the future is to take the first, uncomfortable step towards mutual understanding."

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• Ryan Jameson posted at 6:57 am on Fri, May 13, 2011.

  Posts: 195

  Mrs. Bobin wrote: "the goal is to try to make all women appear to be more stupid than they are".

  Mrs. Bobin, you do an excellent job of doing that to yourself, no assistance from the "boys club" is required.

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• Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:51 pm on Thu, May 12, 2011.

  Posts: 2031

  Mr. Maple (as well as anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly welcome to stick his nose in the Lodi News-Sentinel whenever he pleases. I wasn't aware that there were geographical limitations to "membership" on this forum; or that anyone here should have to answer to a cat. It kind of begs for an answer to who may have died that created a king or queen out of a plebe.

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• Joanne Bobin posted at 8:50 pm on Thu, May 12, 2011.

  Posts: 3256

  Apparently all of the men who read this had trouble understanding the topic as usual. Love the reference to elephant dung - Mr. Baumbach is continually stepping in it, whether in Thailand or in Lodi - not to mention Mr. Maple (Clue - I was alluding to you to sticking to reading the GH and not sticking your nose in the LNS).

  I wrote that I thought bin Laden got what he deserved. My question/comment was about the RELIGIOUS aspect that Mr. Fields was writing about - THE ACTUAL TOPIC OF THE LETTER!!

  The amount of block-headedness in this forum is astounding.

  The Boys Club lives on, no matter how ignorant they make themselves appear - the goal is to try to make all women appear to be more stupid than they are. You are all sincerely pathetic.

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• Account Deleted posted at 4:43 pm on Thu, May 12, 2011.

  Posts: 57

  I agree with Patrick. Osama Bin Laden was a cowardly, hateful muslim, and he had it coming, as does his followers. He was and still is, an insignificant speck of vomit in a vast universe of mediocraty. He will be a tiny footnote in history, if that. He now lies rotting and stinking at the bottom of the sea, where he belonged all along. To continue discussing the subject is disrespectful to the memory of the people he killed.

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• Patrick W Maple posted at 4:38 pm on Thu, May 12, 2011.

  Posts: 1795

  DB: ALL dung has more value than a mass murderer.

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• Patrick W Maple posted at 4:35 pm on Thu, May 12, 2011.

  Posts: 1795

  ms bobin: You purport to be intelligent and worldly yet you do not know about the famous Galt Herald? I am not worried about the ME just the copy-cat morons that live here and who will try to take revenge.

  Appropriate? Do you live in a worm hole? Do you speak out at home? You do know the internet travels outside of your sphere of influence don't you? Flailing comments are not welcomed anywhere else except here...because we are a tollerant, patient and caring people at least out here in the country.

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• Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:05 pm on Thu, May 12, 2011.

  Posts: 9403

  Pat, if you ever walked pathways in North Thailand like me.... you would know that there, elephant dung really did have more relevance... and would be common knowledge.

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• Joanne Bobin posted at 3:56 pm on Thu, May 12, 2011.

  Posts: 3256

  Another educated comment from Mr. Maple. He has already been deemed a martyr in some circles, and I'm sure comments here in the LNS will not provoke his supporters in the Middle East to elevate his status any further.

  Don't they have a newspaper in Galt in which you can comment? Seems more appropriate.

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• Patrick W Maple posted at 2:29 pm on Thu, May 12, 2011.

  Posts: 1795

  Obie is dead. Elephant dung has more relevance and worth than him. Stop talking about him, you are helping to elevate him to martyrdom.

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• Joanne Bobin posted at 8:44 am on Thu, May 12, 2011.

  Posts: 3256

  As a fairly non-religious person, I do not care about a justification for the elimination of one of the most horrific monsters of our time. But I am mystified why an evangelical Christian feels the need to write a letter declaring that OBL has received his just punishment. Whatever happened to "Vengeance is mine," sayeth the Lord?

  Mr. Fields' quotation of scripture seems selective, and does not imply at all that what a person reaps should be delivered by fellow mortals.

  Perhaps Mr. Paglia could offer his educated Catholic perspective since Catholicism is very close to the religion in which I was raised? Your commentary is appreciated, Mr. Paglia.

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