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Only the wealthy would want to be Republicans

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Posted: Monday, August 8, 2011 12:00 am | Updated: 6:12 am, Mon Aug 8, 2011.

I want to respond to Marcia Savage's letter in the Aug. 2 Lodi News-Sentinel. I have also wanted to ask the question why, if you're not extremely wealthy, would you become a Republican?

The latest debt ceiling debacle clearly shows the GOPs overwhelming support for debt (tax cuts) incurred for the wealthy and total animosity toward support for middle-class citizens. This is not a new charge against the GOP, but in this dire economy it becomes glaring and hard to understand.

The big corporate wealthy are still fighting the fight of 19th century industrialists against unions and New Deal programs. To be a middle-class wage-earner and against unions makes the assumption you work for altruistic companies or you have lots of cash for attorneys. This is seldom the case, made evident by the widening economic disparity between the CEO and working classes. The entitlement programs are the safety nets of a consumer work force responsible for much of our country's prosperity. Social conservatives appear locked in a bitter struggle to roll back the people empowering achievements of the '60s and '70s, including awareness of the environment.

Free enterprise is the most successful economic system, but it is not without limitations or flaws. Private industry has the ability to efficiently produce products and services at the best price, but it also manages to use its trusted means to pass inferior or unsafe products at inflated prices. Private industry is not able to correct itself in this downturn for a number of reasons, but it is not because of regulations, debt or taxes. What is needed now are jobs. What creates jobs is demand — namely, customers. You can give tax breaks or reduce regulations, but it won't create customers needed to get the help wanted signs hung in the windows. If debt incurred for the wealthy is acceptable, then we should not cut spending (Herbert Hoover's mistake), and do even more stimulus to working classes, where it will do the most good to stimulate the economy. The trickle up.

Thomas Heuer


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  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:33 am on Wed, Aug 10, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Gary and Bill...
    I have to say... since you two have been articulating your thoughts and ideas more often the last month, this on line forum has become more interesting and thought provoking. It is refreshing to read about ideas and beliefs that one can reflect on... Thank you !!

  • Gary Musto posted at 7:07 am on Wed, Aug 10, 2011.

    Gary Musto Posts: 506

    Bill, those that attack the "tea party" do so out of fear, they fear that the American people will find out what millions already know, Barack Hussein Obama is a fraud and since the Democrats can not defend his failed regime, they must try and deflect the criticism elsewhere.

    Now along comes multi-millionaire Democrat Senator John Kerry, who docked his own 7 million dollar yacht in another state just to avoid paying higher taxes has no problem smearing the "Tea Party" by calling them "terrorists."

  • Bill Stamos posted at 8:41 pm on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    skilos Posts: 93

    It is truly amazing that the Tea Party is now the new scape goat for this administrations failings; David Axelrod, John Kerry and many other attack people actually blame the S & P Downgrade on the Tea Party and Vice President Biden actually referred to them as terrorists, oh my! The Tea Party, Mr Randall, did not spin off the GOP, they are a grass roots organization of voting Americans and have no formal corporate structure, their leaders consists of local organizations held together on the basis of collaborative decision making and trust of one another. Two of the leaders that I have heard speak very eloquently concerning their platform were both stay at home Moms, they were never political motivated but decided to get involved in an effort to protect their children against what they see as a threat to this nations well being. They desire to instill fiscal responsibility and limited government. In my opinion Liberal/progressive politicians and their followers cannot debate the Tea Party platform intelligently, so they attempt to destroy their character with outright lies and half truths. There are 535 representatives in both houses of the Congress, the Tea Party Caucus number 60. How on earth can such a small number be blamed for what a total of 535 decide?
    May I suggest that it isn't the 60 that the liberals fear, it is their message..!

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:37 pm on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Pat puts his energies into hard work... and also has time to educate those who need it.
    That is why Pat is so admirable.

  • Eric Barrow posted at 2:39 pm on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1604

    WOW Patrick with a work schedule like that how do you find the time to post all day long, day in and day out? Responding to nearly ever letter submitted.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:46 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Eric Stated...
    Also I watched numerous economist over the last week and everyone said that more spending is necessary to get us out of this economic uncertainty that is hurting our credit and dragging down the economy.

    I am curious from what pool Eric observed economists and “everyone” that helped Eric draw conclusions he did.
    If I went to a union meeting and only listened to union perspective, I would most likely have only a union view as a result.
    Since the only people Eric listened to said things that support his position, it is likely Eric's knowledge base should be expanded and diversified. I heard many people say we need more spending, but I also heard many who said more spending would make it worse than it already is.
    What I would like is Eric's reasoning and evidence that more spending would produce positive results. That would be interesting.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:10 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    John Randall posted at 8:29 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011...My take: The 'Tea Party" is actually a new spin-off brand of the GOP...It’s a new name for the shamed...

    MY TAKE...The Tea Party opposition ( the left and political establishment) is the old guard who is desperate to keep the power and control .These old guard leftists ( socialist movement enthusiasts) work in plain view as their followers are oblivious to their intent and power. This people tend to perceive they are intellectually superior and are very condescending in their attitude.
    These frightened power hungry politicians are fearful of the Tea Party members as they tend to be educated independent people who are not easily fooled or led. ( unlike their followers)
    Their agenda... keep their position in life living in luxury and exempt from the laws, rules, and regulations they create for the commoners and sheep-like people who blindly follow their marching orders. This is evidenced by how many blame the Tea Party for the political ills of society.
    Their strategy... Provide misinformation and lies and repeat it so often that lies become truth in the eyes of their naive and gullible followers... Solution... support and admire tea party members who have the intelligence and common sense know what to do to improve economy of USA. Ignore the left who simply has selfish motivations to discredit the Tea Party.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 10:53 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    This is why I've been saying since Bush that the stimulus money would do nothing to help the economy except make those with money feel better.

    What Bush and Obama should have done is start at the bottom and start paying off mortgages of the poor until the dedicated stimulus money was gone. Then the poor would have extra cash to spend and the banks would have their money so there wouldn't be as many foreclosures. All that extra cash would be freed up month after month and spent month after month and the recession would have ended by now. instead of five years of recession we would have had two years and three of market growth.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 10:48 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    Eric, I agree. IO specifically did not mention home loans because very few people can cash flow a house. Same with a car, but a car can be planned for and is surprisingly easy to cash flow once a budget is established. Take the car payments you were making and when you finish paying off the car put half of what you were paying into a savings account for the next car. Just because a car is paid off doesn't mean you have to trade it in.

    But in that line, how many Americans are buying houses that are bigger and more expensive than they can afford? Many people are paying more than 50 even 60 and 75% of their take home for their house. Financial gurus say it should be less than 25%. This is one of the things that our kids should be taught so they are better off than we are (as a generation). Same with a car.

    Sure the economists say we have to spend our way out of this. I think they go to the same Kool-aide stand as the politicians. The only way to get out of this recession is to strengthen the foundations of this country, which is the people. If spending got us into this mess, how will spending get us out? It is like trying to dig yourself out of a hole.

    Spending with a plan will help the country. Right now people are being told to create more debt for the greater good of the country. We need to spend our way out of the debt problem. This is wrong. Yes more jobs will be created the more we spend, but those jobs are hollow if there is not structure behind that spending, that is people who have the actual cash to go spending. Otherwise when the debt gets to large again the economy will crash because people just don't have cash, they have debt.

  • Eric Barrow posted at 10:01 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1604

    I agree Kevin that credit is a trap that many struggle to get out of and most is frivolous but some debt is necassary I doubt many Americans could ever buy a home without going into debt. Also I watched numerous economist over the last week and everyone said that more spending is necassary to get us out of this economic uncertainty that is hurting our credit and dragging down the economy. All of these economist agreed that the national debt needs to be reduced just not during this economic downturn. The problem seems to be that we can't cut spending during downtimes and nobody cares about doing it during the good times.

  • Gary Musto posted at 9:55 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Gary Musto Posts: 506

    John Randall, bless his little left wing heart, tries to equate the "tea party" as 'brown shirts for the GOP" , how about we label those Obamatrons like John's ilk as, "boot lickers and heel clickers for Bamma?"

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 9:34 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    A revelation about me, if I ran the hypothetical Hemp international and had the 10million dollar bonuses to be rewarded then I would split the 10mill equally among all the employees. So they would all get a $2000 bonus from the janitors and secretaries, salesmen and drivers to the CEO's. Businesses are successful because of team effort, and should be rewarded as such. On the football field the quarterback doesn't get %90 of the win and the rest of the team get the last 10%. They all share in the win equally. Well, except for that loser who can't seem to hold on to the ball ;-)

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 9:29 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    On other little side point. I do agree that it is an abomination that CEO's take million dollar bonuses as their company lays people off. To address that, if I had the power, ANY company that receives federal help through subsidies, tax breaks or such would be required to give it's employees an equal share of bonus money the CEO's receive. That is if the top five CEO's of Hemp international all receive a 1 million dollar bonus (totalling 5million) because their business had grown so fast, and the business used farm subsidies to grow their product and tax breaks to build a new warehouse in Lockeford, then their 5,000 would also receive a portion of a 5 million dollar bonus (each employee would receive a $1000). While the leadership that made the business successful should be rewarded for that success, the troops on the ground made the success possible also should be rewarded. Tax dollars should not be abused to pay corporate bonuses while ignoring those that made it possible.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 9:21 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    The last paragraph here is to the point but the whole read is interesting

    Here is where I think the leadership of this country has really let the people down. Our leaders are continually saying carry debt, it is a good thing. If you can't afford it buy it with someone else's money and figure out how to pay it back later. It is better to have now and worry about the future tomorrow. More than tax codes and salary gaps, this is the reason there is the possibility of Mr Randall's two class system.

    The government needs to start an aggressive campaign of "take back your finances". It needs to start in school. Teach the kids that debt is a bad thing. That buying now and paying more and more later is a bad plan for the future. Eliminate the myth of having to keep up with your neighbors. Teach kids how to make a budget, how to live within that budget and how to create cash flow. Ban credit card companies from the school yards.

    Only by breaking the cycle of household debt will America close the salary gaps. How? The more cash an American family has the more they are likely to spend. The more they spend the more jobs are created. As these jobs are created the more secure companies are and the longer they hold onto employees which results in better paid employees, closing the gaps.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 9:09 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    Eric: You are right. That was the example they used.

    But here is the problem and what i have been saying, it is the story behind the numbers. How were they collected, what were the standards and checks against the numbers and how are the numbers interpreted.

    All the articles i have been reading all say the same thing, the average "household" makes less than 50K. It doesn't say married with kids, but rather household. What are the demographic breakdowns for that "average" number? is most of those that fall into that below 50K a year category college students, college drop outs, singles, welfare recipients, married couples with no kids or married couples with kids.

    Yes, as I have admitted, there are families as you state that make less than 50K a year and struggle to get by. There are families that make 200K that struggle to get by. I knew a family in Oregon (our boys were friends) who lived on a part time mechanics salary for the 7 years we knew them. Their cars were paid for, they carried no credit card debt and always had more cash than bills because they were smart on how they spent their money. I also knew families (unfortunately too many) who made good money but were on the verge of bankruptcy because they spent more than they made (sounds like the US). they bought houses that showed they were successful and the mortgages were 60% of their take-home. Fancy cars that were 20%+ of their take home. Used CC's to buy everything they wanted to show how successful they were and at the end of every month they were further behind in their bills. And the Liberals want to tax them fast into bankruptcy. To those on the left they are the enemy because they make too much money.

  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:30 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1604

    That's a married couple grossing no more than 50K

  • John Randall posted at 8:29 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    John Randall Posts: 21

    My take: The 'Tea Party" is actually a new spin-off brand of the GOP.
    It’s a new name for the shamed -but-alive NeoCon movement, designed to be the on-the-street Brownshirts for the GOP...yet the GOP can publicly disclaim and distance themselves from them. The TP's soldiers are mostly working class folks, easily led. The TPs generals are GOP NeoCons, working in the shadows. Agenda: destroy the middle class:
    Make the USA a 2-class society: the Very Wealthy 2 percenters....and the rest- a mass of lower middle-class serfs, living elbow to elbow, lowest common denominator.

    I would not rule out an eventual 1 party dictatorship in this country...in our lifetime.

  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:25 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1604

    Kevin in response to your posting @ 3:49 Mon. the article you suggested stated that in order to be included in the group not paying taxes, there would have to be a married couple both working with at least 2 children. These requirements would give a couple the tax bracket and deductions necessary to not owe taxes.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 7:28 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    Actually Jerry, I read it twice, a third time this morning (between the kids talking to me about everything from putting her own earrings in last night to needing laundry done and if they can invite a friend over). Are you saying that either Yahoo Finance or tax policy.com has something wrong in their assessment because i still don't see a counter to anything I said.

    I'll throw another one out on the issue: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/08/john-cornyn/john-cornyn-says-51-percent-american-households-pa/

  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:31 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mr b: 444964...930283...hmmmm...1983...2009...hmmm Never heard of me? hmmmm...maybe I should take my ad out of the yellow pages, off the internet, out of all the local magazines, throw away my business cards, take the signs off my trucks and trailers, paint them colors other than red and white and change my last name to Bransom. I will send a letter to the over 3000 clients I have and tell them that they need to find someone else...because YOU can't find me. Where does the "only" come from? Mr Chaney thank you for the blessing. All of my employees are citizens. Some have tried to fake it but got caught. Kind of like mr b...30 yrs? A licensed contractor? Not according to the state contractos board.

  • Jerry Bransom posted at 12:16 am on Tue, Aug 9, 2011.

    Jerry Bransom Posts: 364

    How Funny that Pat Maple thinks he is the only person employing people in Lodi. I never heard of you and I have been a contractor here for 30 years, have 6 permanent employees and as many as 200 occasionally. Just what exactly do your "crews" do out there? Let's see some legitimacy. I am easy to look up. Why aren't you?

    Kevin.. I see you did not read the article.. Hey.. I read yours.

  • Doug Chaney posted at 11:03 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Doug Chaney Posts: 1232

    Mr. Maple, do you pay your employees overtime for anything over 8 hours at time and a half, or double time on Satruday and Sunday? God bless you if you do, sir. Do you use the e-verify system? If so, why not?

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 7:24 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    Jerry, please elaborate, what was the non-truth I said. It is like saying the sky is a color but not saying what color it is.

    "Besides, most of the time, you are all railing against TAXES of any kind!! " Um, aside from Daniel I haven't heard anyone say there should be no taxes. I even go so far as to say everyone should pay some in taxes to eliminate those who use tax loopholes so these billionaires end up paying something.

    " Now you condemn a group who cannot afford taxes rather than applaud their good fortune."
    Where did I condemn anyone? I did ask for the facts behind the numbers so the truth can be discussed. Since when is discussing the truth a condemnation?

    "Give up your $300,000 to 27 Billion Dollar salary and hire a couple of employees." If it takes 10 people to produce X why would anyone want to hire 15 people? Is that how you would run a business? Hire more people than you need, spend more than you need to, and waste so when things collapse the business fails? If anything rather than hiring more people I would say pay them better, if they are worth it.

  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:40 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr B: To illustrate Mr P's point: The problem I have with people who think like you do is:

    I work six, sometimes seven days a week (my choice), each day I get up at 4:30 or 5:00AM (my choice), I am in my office or on the road to a job site by 5:15 (my choice), the crews are usually at work by 6:00AM (my choice), we work eight to ten hours every day (our choice), I am back in my office by 3:30 or 4:00PM (my choice), I work another two to four hours on my books, phone calls, estimates, regulations, e-mails, taxes and other business related items until 8:30 or 9:00PM (my choice). But to make it simple (unlike our tax code) lets just say I work twelve hours a day six days a week for 48 weeks a year (my choice) or a total of about 3500 hours (again...my choice), I have three children (my choice)(my responsibility)(wife stayed home with kids...our choice). I made an average of $68K each of the past 5 years or $340K total. I paid in about $50K for social security (not my choice), $50K in taxes (not my choice), not to mention property taxes, personal property taxes, insurance, medical, all of the stuff that is not tax deductible (not my choice)...still we managed to do fairly well until property values plunged, jobs (not the old people) fell off the cliff and now I am looking at retiring at the ripe old age of never...by the way you wouldn't have a couple of $75K I could borrow so I could attend a BO fund raiser and talk to BO in person would you?

  • Jerry Bransom posted at 4:36 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Jerry Bransom Posts: 364

    Since Kevin posted a Non-Truth, I will post this one:

    Do any of you so-called good Americans realize these people still have to pay State, Local, Social Security, Medicare and Sales Taxes? They pay the most when prices rise. Besides, most of the time, you are all railing against TAXES of any kind!! Now you condemn a group who cannot afford taxes rather than applaud their good fortune. You people are conflicted to be sure! If the Rich are taking from the poor as is shown in their ever increasing income and power, then they need to pay their share of the taxes. Don't like it? Give up your $300,000 to 27 Billion Dollar salary and hire a couple of employees. You Double Dipping ex-state employees can give up your 2 or 3 other checks you draw from the government. Maybe then they can pay their taxes. Keep hammering away at the foundation. The building is about to collapse.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 3:49 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    Eric, I don't mind paying taxes. In my mind if your are not paying the taxes, then don't be using the services.

    Eric, your 3:00 post supports what i have been saying for a long time. First, people should not b forced to pay for SS or Medicare if they don't want to. These are nothing more than a losing bet and the general public should be able to opt out of these if they want. But since the systems have been robbed by both sides so much that they need to keep the current sucker paying in to meet current obligations. But current payers are NOT going to have it when they retire.

    And yup, they may have one or two cars, if things are so tight then they should have two paid for cars and eliminate that cash flow drain. How many of the families have huge credit card debt as well?

    And what is the reality behind the numbers? Ok 50% of American households make less than 50K. How many of those are singles? Making 40K as a single goes a long way. How many of those 50% households are college students working as they get through college? How many of those 50% are able bodied people living off government welfare? How many of those making less than 50K work 60+ hours a week? What is the average education level of the people making less than 50K?

    There is a lot more to the numbers than just the numbers.

    An interesting read about how education relates the income of a person. http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/edandearnings.htm

  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:02 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1604

    Why is it that the right complains about being overtaxed and then complains about those not paying taxes? Surely the right is not suddenly bothered by inequality in this country

  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:00 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1604

    What I find really disturbing is that we live in the wealthiest country in the world and half of the people make $12.00 an hour or less. Where are the unions when you need them?

  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:00 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1604

    Kevin thanks for the heads up, here is the question I have from the article you suggested. If a couple makes gross earnings of 50 K a year and they have 2 kids (this was the most a person could make and not pay taxes according to the article) that means each parent is making $12.00 and hour and they are still required to pay SS and Medicare. On top of SS and Medicare they need housing that’s gonna take about 20-25% of gross income they probably have at least one car, utilities and groceries. I can’t see how they could be left with much more than $1,000 to $1,500 a month for clothes, furniture, college for the kids, retirement and anything else they might need in a month how much taxes would you expect them to pay.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:12 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Kevin....the info you had below was similar to what I had read elsewhere. Thanks for posting.

    I think your previous idea on another thread where you suggested a minimum tax for each person be implemented, would be a way to guarantee a better cash flow to the government and is a good idea.
    However, until there is motivation and reason for successful people to produce, I'm not sure if the minimum tax would achieve much. If revamping the tax system and changing the mandates and regulations on business is not made a priority of the
    “ hope and change” dialogue, I do not hold much hope.

    Ms Bobin... I am curious... why were you curious about the demographics? I am curious why you were curious. Since we know the top 10% of wage earners pay a vast majority of all income taxes, we know that this group is zero % of the group that pays no tax.

    A statistic I would be interested in is what percent of the population that pays no Federal income tax also is the beneficiary of getting economic support from tax payers. What is the value of the government assistance one gets when at the same time, pay nothing into the system.

  • Gary Musto posted at 12:02 pm on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Gary Musto Posts: 506

    President Downgrade just finished his attack on everyone but himself, all the while the market tanked another hundred points to -510.

    Hope and Change, yeah right.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:52 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2108

    Not Darrell but was inspired to look it up myself:



  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:39 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumbach - since you do so much research, can you give us the breakdown of the 50% of the population that pays no tax?

    I'm not questioning your number at all - I'm sure it is correct, just want to know the demographics of that 50%

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:06 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Heuer stated...The latest debt ceiling debacle clearly shows the GOPs overwhelming support for debt (tax cuts) incurred for the wealthy...

    I think this author is a perfect spokesman for the inexperienced, the misinformed and the Ostrich population that firmly has head planted 3 feet under.
    50% of all Americans pay “ZERO” federal tax... of course... that is not a tax break. In fact, people who paid no tax were, in the near past, eligible to get a tax credit in the stimulus even though they paid no income tax...
    However, the wealthy as Mr Heuer describes, are subject to over 50 % tax rate ( Federal and State) and pay a majority of all income tax. Somehow, because the republicans wanted wealthy people to continue paying the same tax they have been, that is bad...
    After this author making a statement that regulations, debt or taxes “DO NOT” effect the ability of the private sector to increase jobs, it is obvious he bases his conclusions on fantasy and theory.

  • Gary Musto posted at 7:24 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Gary Musto Posts: 506

    More harping about the wealthy, yes the Republican party is made up of nothing but high end earners, that's why only the poor and disenfranchised Democrats were able to scrounge up over $86 million to pour in Obama's re-election war chest.

  • Charles Nelson posted at 1:39 am on Mon, Aug 8, 2011.

    Charles Nelson Posts: 259

    Mr Heuer, You say our economy needs customers. Where are we going to get the money to spend, to stimulate the economy, if the government confiscates it in taxes? I'm a self employed American. The Democrats do nothing to represent my best interest. They represent everything that's wrong with America.


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