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We have gone too far with political correctness

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Posted: Saturday, December 10, 2011 12:00 am

I saw on the news that the Lincoln School District in Stockton has prohibited any "religious" decorations, including — now get this — trees, poinsettias and even Santa Claus (you know, that right-wing radical fundamental Christian evangelist who proselytizes every home he visits in December). The only decorations allowed are things like snowflakes and snowmen (Frosty must be a card-carrying member of the ACLU and the FFRF).

If we haven't already done so, we have just crossed the line of the absurd. A poinsettia? Come on! All of this nonsense so as not to offend anyone.

I used to work in the aerospace industry, and my department included Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroaster, agnostic and atheist employees. Yet every year we put up a Christmas tree, holly and poinsettias, played Christmas carols (both secular and spiritual), and actually wished each other "Merry Christmas." We exchanged Christmas cards, and mine always had a Christian theme. No one, to my knowledge, suffered extreme mental anguish because of these things.

The kids in Lincoln district just want to enjoy Christmas; no one is shoving religion down their throats. They won't suffer irreparable damage by traditional Christmas decorations and songs. Unfortunately, some paranoid, politically correct adults have made a mockery of Christmas. How sad.

Oh well, I want to wish all of you a peaceful, joyous Christmas filled with the love and warmth of family and friends. Merry Christmas! And even though I know that Dec. 25 isn't the actual date, happy birthday, Jesus. I love you.

Pastor Frank Nolton

Lodi

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Welcome to the discussion.

87 comments:

  • Kim Lee posted at 2:14 pm on Fri, Dec 23, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Merry Christmas, Pastor Nolton!

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:39 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Ah, the inconvenient truth the article below presents for K Lee and her ilk.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:27 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Our first founding document, The declaration of Independence states:

    ............We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".................

    This simple document eventually led to the idea of self-governance as outlined in our constitution and our bill of rights. These ideas eventually led to the abolition of slavery and the civil rights movement which set an example for the rest of the world. The experiment of American self-governance by a moral and religious people has brought charity, freedom and security to all corners of the globe. The American experiment has culminated in what later became the unique American culture.

    Historically, many people have fled persecution, oppression and poverty to build a better life for their families in America. People from diverse cultures came to America with hopes and dreams of melting into our culture and raising American children who would have opportunities that were not available in their homeland. They left their old cultures behind to become Americans.

    America became stronger when foreigners became Americanized. Immigrants took on American sounding names, they learned English, they sent their children to American schools, they dressed like Americans, they celebrated American holidays, they took pride in being American and they became part of the rich and wonderful American culture. For the most part, they left behind the culture, language and most of the customs of the land that they fled. This was true for my own grandparents and for most grandparents of my generation.

    When we encouraged immigrants to take pride in America and become Americanized, we built a stronger, wealthier and freer nation.

    If we encourage Americans to celebrate the various, cultures, languages and customs of the nations that these immigrants fled, America will inevitably become less united, weaker, poorer, more corrupt and less free, like the nations that these immigrants fled from in the first place.

    Immigrants came here to seek a better life in the greatest nation that this world has ever seen. The more Americanized they become, the better they will be able to avail themselves of the boundless opportunities that America has to offer. We do ourselves and our immigrants a disservice if we do not insist on unity and pride in America's, culture, language and rich heritage.

    United we stand, divided we will fall. Multiculturalism tends to divide, categorize and highlight the differences among people and cultures. Multiculturalism asks us to accept things that are not always in the best interest of America. The unique American culture has led us to prosper and grow and be a beacon of freedom and inspiration for the rest of the world. America has grown to become the freest, wealthiest and most benevolently powerful nation that this world has ever seen. This can only be diminished by diluting our rich culture, language and noble heritage with multiculturalism.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:25 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    http://redblueamerica.com/blog/2009-06-01/why-multiculturalism-bad-for-america-5366


    Why Multiculturalism is Bad For America
    Posted 2 years 28 weeks ago by garyganu

    Multiculturalism is the exact opposite of what our great American culture was founded upon. Most American Coins have the words "E Pluribus Unum" stamped on them. This means: "Out of many, One". America has always been a melting pot in which many diverse cultures are mixed together and have been transformed into a single great American culture in the end.

    Our unique American culture has led us to be the freest, wealthiest, most benevolently powerful nation that this world has ever seen. This is NOT due to cultural diversity, but to the contrary, this was due to our founding principles and concept of "the American melting pot".

    Freedom from religious persecution is one of our founding principles. Of course religious freedom is part of the American culture. However, a moral and religious people is required for self governance.

    In today's day and age, Christianity is often ridiculed, mocked and discredited. Diverse cultures, that often lack faith in God and sometimes are incompatible with Jedeo-Christian principles, are often celebrated, embraced and encouraged by today's schools, the media, popular culture and the government. In my humble opinion, this trend needs to be reversed if we are to survive as a nation and a culture.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:40 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    K Lee wrote:

    How do you believe that multiculturalism is counterproductive in this country? How do you presume to eliminate, or suppress, multiculturalism in our country? Perhaps you might simply decide to ignore that they exist. And which culture then do you believe to be superior and should dominate our country?

    -Those proponents of multiculturalism want to lump all cultures into one basket as if they are equal. God did say all humans were created equal, But never said all cultures are equal. I'm not one of your students you can indoctrinate. It's dog eat dog hear on Earth. There will always be cultures that dominate over others. Live with it. And when those cultures stop dominating others will take their place.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:25 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    K Lee wrote:

    I see... You believe this country should only recognize Christians and all that Christians do, believe and celebrate should be held in the highest regard, above all others. All others need not expect anything remotely equal to those that are Christians in this country? I get where you stand now, Brian.

    -Chuckle,
    Frankly,I find your denseness quite disturbing. To say this country only recognizes Christianitiy as a religion is absolutely absurd. Of course there isn't another religion that has nearly as equal numbers as Christianity in this country. That being said, I suggest you brush up on how the majority wins. Stop the snivling.
    You sound like a first grader who won't stop complaining about losing the race.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:19 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Klee stated...Darrell mumbled, "of course ... Joanne said it so the seal claps its hands."

    In reality, Darrell cheerfully observed then articulated....Joanne said it so the seal claps its hands." you of course being the seal.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:11 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Apparently you are not up to the task. You have no A game probably not even a B game...just go sit on the bench or better yet in the bleachers and just maybe your will learn something.

    Teddy Roosevelt: “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

    JFK: The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were.”

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 3:23 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Patty wrote, "mss b and l: Sometime...bring you A game. Leave your snottiness and short peaked intellligence at home...I am in this for the long run. You have been challenged by myself and others to a debate on ANY subject and have yet to respond...your gibberish would wear the hair off a wooly mammoth, Put up or shut up!"

    Here's an idea... Try conversing, or debating, the topic at hand here, Patty. You'd much rather launch right into your personal attacks on every thread due to your personal feelings towards me, as well as many others who disagree with you. Try controlling your out of control anger. You're too emotional. I'm not here to try to be your pal or kiss your rear-end, so you can stop trying to make it happen. We usually disagree on most issues. Deal with it like an adult.... or not... your choice.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:50 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mss b and l: Sometime...bring you A game. Leave your snottiness and short peaked intellligence at home...I am in this for the long run. You have been challenged by myself and others to a debate on ANY subject and have yet to respond...your gibberish would wear the hair off a wooly mammoth, Put up or shut up!

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:23 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Brian wrote, "The majority religion here in the U.S. is Christianity."

    I see... You believe this country should only recognize Christians and all that Christians do, believe and celebrate should be held in the highest regard, above all others. All others need not expect anything remotely equal to those that are Christians in this country? I get where you stand now, Brian.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:15 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Joanne Bobin wrote, "Other religions have religious days around the same time as Christmas, but the only day that the Federal government has recognized is the Christian holy day by bestowing federal holiday status on it."

    K Lee wrote, "Good point, Joanne."

    Darrell mumbled, "of course ... Joanne said it so the seal claps its hands."

    --------------

    That's okay, Darrell. Don't be jealous. Maybe someday someone of integrity and character will agree with your comments too.... maybe.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:05 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Brian wrote, "Multiculturalism in any shape or form has been proven time and time again to be counterproductive in most societies."

    How do you believe that multiculturalism is counterproductive in this country? How do you presume to eliminate, or suppress, multiculturalism in our country? Perhaps you might simply decide to ignore that they exist. And which culture then do you believe to be superior and should dominate our country?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 12:51 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Brian Docktor wrote, "Only people like K Lee and Ms. Bobin, who claim to be Christian, are doing most of the snivling about this issue."

    Dear Brian, It looks like you're the one doing the "sniveling". You're just another guy that can't debate the issue without getting all worked up, angry and personally attacking everyone that disagrees with you right out of the gate. Is that all you've got?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 12:10 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    K Lee wrote:

    IMO, the reality is that It is not "to each his/her own" as we only have these two weeks off for a Christian holiday, not each and every other religious holiday that is observed by the different religions in our country. These are "public" schools.

    - Multiculturalism in any shape or form has been proven time and time again to be counterproductive in most societies.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 12:04 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    K Lee wrote:

    There should not be an establishment of any particular religion in our public schools. Wouldn't you agree?

    -K Lee missed the point entirely.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 12:02 pm on Sun, Dec 18, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    K Lee wrote:

    I understand what Joanne Bobin is saying.

    IMO, the reality is that It is not "to each his/her own" as we only have these two weeks off for a Christian holiday, not each and every other religious holiday that is observed by the different religions in our country. These are "public" schools.

    -I'll go over this again for K Lee.
    The majority religion here in the U.S. is Christianity. Only people like K Lee and Ms. Bobin, who claim to be Christian, are doing most of the snivling about this issue. For the most part, people of other religions don't have a problem with this.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:26 pm on Sat, Dec 17, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Klee stated...Good point, Joanne.

    of course ... Joanne said it so the seal claps its hands.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 2:57 pm on Sat, Dec 17, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Joanne Bobin wrote, "Other religions have religious days around the same time as Christmas, but the only day that the Federal government has recognized is the Christian holy day by bestowing federal holiday status on it."

    Good point, Joanne.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 2:55 pm on Sat, Dec 17, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Patty wrote, "I got off that train BEFORE the crash. Heart surgery will do that."

    It sounds like you should be taking it easy.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 2:54 pm on Sat, Dec 17, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Brian Docktor wrote, "Obviously Mr. Martinez is unaware there will be no disestablishment of religion as stated in the U.S. Constitution."

    There should not be an establishment of any particular religion in our public schools. Wouldn't you agree?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 2:49 pm on Sat, Dec 17, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Brian Docktor wrote, "I don't understand why Ms. Bobin doesn't believe children should get two weeks off in observance of the Birth of Jesus Christ. To each his/her own."

    I understand what Joanne Bobin is saying.

    IMO, the reality is that It is not "to each his/her own" as we only have these two weeks off for a Christian holiday, not each and every other religious holiday that is observed by the different religions in our country. These are "public" schools.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:43 am on Fri, Dec 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Obviously Mr. Martinez is unaware there will be no disestablishment of religion as stated in the U.S. Constitution.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:39 am on Fri, Dec 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    I don't understand why Ms. Bobin doesn't believe children should get two weeks off in observance of the Birth of Jesus Christ. To each his/her own.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:33 am on Fri, Dec 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    I would judge that Pastor Nolton and Mr. Docktor have no business calling themselves Christians.

    -There you have it folks. Ms. Bobin is in a class by herself. Aside from the fact she has no room to talk, I would like her to explain why she questions the Pastor and I.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:25 am on Fri, Dec 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    Wow, Mr. Docktor: I am honored that it took you TWO whole days to respond to my comments. I must really P....s you off!

    -I'm sure many other people cupport my case that Ms.Bobin makes it a point to say things on these bloggs to get people irritated. I've always had this theory much of what she says is actually contrary to what she believes.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:33 pm on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin stated...Mr. Baumbach: As a self-professed non-religious person, you have no business judging my level of Christianity

    I am not a tree yet I can judge if I am looking at a tree based on my experience and knowledge of trees.

    The same as my observation of Christians... I am not a Christian, but by having many years of interaction and experience observing the actions, behaviors and attitude of many Christians, I have developed an opinion as to what a Christian is and is not.
    What I said about you below is... “ Your actions are not of any Christian I have met. Maybe you are unique and unusual... No where did I judge a level of Christianity... you are unfortunately mistaken again.
    You may be a Christian, but again, never seen one like you. also, I admire Christians in general but do not admire you

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:37 pm on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Of course the State has been taken over by bozo's like you mzzzzz b!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:37 pm on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Noooo mzzzzzzzzz b: I got off that train BEFORE the crash. Heart surgery will do that. The GJUHSD is about to be taken over by the State because of the leadership not shown by the bozo's who have ran it for the past 5 years (excluding Dennis, Angela and Kathleen).

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:07 pm on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Now I understand why Mr. Maple was discarded as a board member.

    Wow, Mr. Docktor: I am honored that it took you TWO whole days to respond to my comments. I must really P....s you off!

    Mr. Baumbach: As a self-professed non-religious person, you have no business judging my level of Christianity. If I follow your standards, I would judge that Pastor Nolton and Mr. Docktor have no business calling themselves Christians.

    Perhaps you misunderstand the basic concept of the message of Jesus Christ - or have never even heard it.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 11:17 am on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Contextual quotes:

    Mr B: I can tell a person by their actions and how they treat others... not their words. Your actions are not of any Christian I have met. Maybe you are unique and unusual...

    ms b: "What they should be doing is protesting the fact that valuable school time is lost - 2 whole weeks - on a celebration that does not apply to every student.

    Sorry ms b: It does apply to every student just like choosing a vocation...all things learned are a journey...some roads are taken some not...some politicians are crooks some not...however people like you like to use a 6" brush to paint the Mona Lisa...others would use a portrait brush to paint the Golden Gate...education is an investigation of life...there are choices to be made. If you never are shown the road you cannot make the choice...let them choose as you did.

    ms b: Children do not LOSE any education time...it is only postponed...to give the children a break from all the stress. BTW...we are all children at heart.

    Merry Christmas!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 11:02 am on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Martinez: WE are the state. Wishing someone a Merry Christmas is not a bad thing nor is it state mandated. Many schools are used as temporary churches, for meetings of Girl Scouts, education courses and a host of other businesses. I hardly think someone is going to convert because they see a picture of Santa Claus or an elf once a year.

    "...pagan by nature"? Pagan: an offensive term that deliberately insults somebody who does not acknowledge the God of the Bible, Torah or Koran. Someone saying they do not believe neither makes them right or wrong...no more so that those who do believe (especially in spirit). If you give a gift at anytime of the year, the term "it is better to give than receive" is applicable...especially if you are the receiver. However, from my perspective it is moot. I like to give, help and enjoy Christmas and all of the other holidays. What a worthless battle you fight.

     
  • Manuel Martinez posted at 8:18 am on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Manuel Martinez Posts: 641

    None of us have a problem with expressions of Holiday cheer from individuals. We have problems with extensions of the state engaging in such activity because it constitutes influence and thus violates the separation of church and state. Given that the majority of Christmas decorations and traditions are pagan by nature rather than Christian, you would think there would be less fuss about this, but I guess we've all grabbed our battle gear for this year's "War on Christmas."

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:03 am on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    And how ironic to start your comment with "Merry Merry Christmas and God Bless us all - every one!" and then go on to tell people to "sit in your house on Christmas Eve and Day and be miserable." What an enormous juxtapostion of self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

    -His comment was probably " tongue in cheek" Lighten up, Joanne.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:14 am on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Pastor Nolton wrote:

    I used to work in the aerospace industry, and my department included Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroaster, agnostic and atheist employees. Yet every year we put up a Christmas tree, holly and poinsettias, played Christmas carols (both secular and spiritual), and actually wished each other "Merry Christmas." We exchanged Christmas cards, and mine always had a Christian theme. No one, to my knowledge, suffered extreme mental anguish because of these things.

    - And I would say the vast majority of people from all walks of life don't experience any mental anquish. Except for the political correct crowd, of course.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:03 am on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Ms. Bobin's positions are a perfect example of why multiculturalism and political correctness are counter-productive.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 5:59 am on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    In public schools, that is.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 5:56 am on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    That's mighty Christian of you, Ms. Bobin, not to mention the fact that you wish to have people not exercise their First Amendment rights by requesting they limit their expression of their observance of one of the most important events in human history.
    The birth of Jesus Christ.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 5:51 am on Thu, Dec 15, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    And then when restrictions are placed in public schools, Christians start screaming.

    -Like I said. It's not just Christians who are screaming about their First Amendment Rights being limited or denied in public schools. Oh the hipocracy of Ms. Bobin.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:19 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Joanne,

    Since you have a problem with the Feds granting a holiday for a Christian belief then
    you must have a problem with India or other countries granting holidays in observance
    for their majority religious belief.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:07 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Ms. Bobin wrote;

    What they should be doing is protesting the fact that valuable school time is lost - 2 whole weeks - on a celebration that does not apply to every student.

    -Hmm,
    Are you suggesting the schools stay open for the very small minority of students who don't observe Christmas? I find your position on this situation somewhat bazaar.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:57 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    Perhaps you do not "get it," Mr. Docktor. Other religions have religious days around the same time as Christmas, but the only day that the Federal government has recognized is the Christian holy day by bestowing federal holiday status on it. And then when restrictions are placed in public schools, Christians start screaming.

    -Joanne,
    I know of Jews and other people of Non-Christian beliefs who are in a uproar about the restrictions too. Unlike you, people of all faiths tend to enjoy the Christmas season even if it is not of their beliefs. Now, Ift here is some other celebration at this time we should designate as a Federal Holiday that just about
    every American, except you, looks forward to, bring it up to your local Congress Person. Lastly, why would you want the Federal Government to grant a Federal holiday for a NON-Christian celebration in a country of mostly Christians?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:17 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin says she is a Christian.... words are a dime a dozen Ms Bobin..

    I can tell a person by their actions and how they treat others... not their words. Your actions are not of any Christian I have met. Maybe you are unique and unusual...

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:27 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Docktor wrote: "Just because Christmas is a Federal Holiday it doesn't make it a Christian Monopoly.
    I think you just have an axe to grind with anything Christian. Please do us all a favor and keep your anti-Christian comments to yourself."

    That's mighty Christian of you, Mr. Docktor, not to mention the fact that you wish to have certain people not exercise their First Amendment rights by requesting our silence.

    As a Christian myself, I am sorry that I cannot take your direction since I have said nothing that is "anti-Christian" as you call it. But as a person who seems to react before thinking, you obviously missed that.

    Perhaps you do not "get it," Mr. Docktor. Other religions have religious days around the same time as Christmas, but the only day that the Federal government has recognized is the Christian holy day by bestowing federal holiday status on it. And then when restrictions are placed in public schools, Christians start screaming.

    What they should be doing is protesting the fact that valuable school time is lost - 2 whole weeks - on a celebration that does not apply to every student.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:15 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    OOPs - hit some wrong key.

    MS. Parigoris - are you REALLY suggesting that EVERYONE SHOULD BE celebrating Christmas, but YOU are giving them alternatives if they don't care to?

    That is exactly how it reads.

    And how ironic to start your comment with "Merry Merry Christmas and God Bless us all - every one!" and then go on to tell people to "sit in your house on Christmas Eve and Day and be miserable." What an enormous juxtapostion of self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

    What do you suppose Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and all other non-Christian people do on Christmas Day? I am sure whatever it is, it does not involve being "miserable."

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:07 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Ms. Parigoris wrote: "Merry Merry Christmas and God Bless us all- every one!
    If you don't want to celebrate Christmas, don't take the paid day off- go to work, or take it off unpaid. If you are a retailer, don't have Black Friday specials. Sit in your house on Christmas Eve and Day and be miserable. I don't care- just don't rain on my parade, and don't deprive the rest of us of a joyous event and tradition."

    Mr. Parigoris writes this as though EVERYONE

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:04 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumback wrote: "I do not wonder if this pastor's Sunday service is just like his letters... I think it does not matter in the least."

    A pastor's writing reflects his beliefs which are usually reflected in his sermons, which in turn indicate the type of people he has sitting in the pews who are willing to listen to him and, no doubt, fervently agree with his views. Otherwise they wouldn't be there.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 10:12 am on Wed, Dec 14, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "I do not wonder if this pastor's Sunday service is just like his letters... I think it does not matter in the least."

    Well, it mattered enough for you to make a comment. I'm sure some people believe Nolton's services matter even if you think "it does not matter in the least".

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:56 pm on Tue, Dec 13, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I do not wonder if this pastor's Sunday service is just like his letters... I think it does not matter in the least.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:20 pm on Tue, Dec 13, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    I wonder if this pastor's Sunday service is just like his letters.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:43 am on Tue, Dec 13, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    In any event Rick. If liberals like you had it your way, we would all be slaves to the government where IT calls all the shots. Other than Islam,I can't of another religion
    where it has the power to mandate things for the masses. Perhaps this is why Islam is so enamoured by Liberals. It is more of a political movement than a religion.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:31 am on Tue, Dec 13, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Another inconvenient truth for Rick; Black Muslims in Africa owned most of the slaves purchased by America. Had they not been brought to America they may never have known what is like to experience freedom. Oh, but those nasty people of Judeo-Christian values who brought them over here. Huh Rick.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:17 am on Tue, Dec 13, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Rick wrote:

    Fortunately, all but the most regressive Americans have abandoned the "Judeo-Christian values" nonsense that Dockter longs for; slavery was abolished, women and other minorities have achieved nearly equal status.

    -Chuckle,

    Slavery existed long before Judaism and Christianity. and it is more likely women and minorities achieved equal status BECAUSE Judeo-Christian values has constantly evolved through the centuries. Refirmation is the key word Rick. Perhaps Rick longs for Islam or some other religion that is stuck in neutral. To each his own.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:22 am on Tue, Dec 13, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Fortunately, all but the most regressive Americans have abandoned the "Judeo-Christian values" nonsense that Dockter longs for...

    I think Rick has never experienced "real Christian values" if he actually thinks they have been abandoned. Rick must have suffered in his life to conclude what he did. Anyone who has experience with a giving loving Christian knows what Rick thinks and what is are two different things.
    I hope Rick gets to experience the goodness Im talking about someday.

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 6:49 pm on Mon, Dec 12, 2011.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 177

    Fortunately, all but the most regressive Americans have abandoned the "Judeo-Christian values" nonsense that Dockter longs for; slavery was abolished, women and other minorities have achieved nearly equal status. And, to say so, none of those advances came with any help from people like Mr. Dockter.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:11 pm on Mon, Dec 12, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    America's foundation is it's Judeo-Christian based system of values. This seems to
    annoy Ms. Bobin. Pathetic seems to be the proper definition for her current disposition.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:06 pm on Mon, Dec 12, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2850

    Ms. Bobin,

    Just because Christmas is a Federal Holiday it doesn't make it a Christian Monopoly.
    I think you just have an axe to grind with anything Christian. Please do us all a favor and keep your anti-Christian comments to yourself.

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 2:38 pm on Mon, Dec 12, 2011.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 470

    Merry Merry Christmas and God Bless us all- every one!
    If you don't want to celebrate Christmas, don't take the paid day off- go to work, or take it off unpaid. If you are a retailer, don't have Black Friday specials. Sit in your house on Christmas Eve and Day and be miserable. I don't care- just don't rain on my parade, and don't deprive the rest of us of a joyous event and tradition.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:38 pm on Mon, Dec 12, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488


    President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870. When both houses had agreed on the wording (below) it was passed on to President Grant, who signed it on June 28, 1870. Here is the wording of that act of Congress: An Act making the first Day of January, the twenty-fifth Day of December, the fourth Day of July, and Thanksgiving Day, Holidays, within the District of Columbia. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following days, to wit: The first day of January, commonly called New Year's day, the fourth day of July, the twenty-fifth day of December, commonly called Christmas Day, and any day appointed or recommended by the President of the United States as a day of public fast or thanksgiving, shall be holidays within the District of Columbia, and shall, for all purposes of presenting for payment or acceptance of the maturity and protest, and giving notice of the dishonor of bills of exchange, bank checks and promissory notes or other negotiable or commercial paper, be treated and considered as is the first day of the week, commonly called Sunday, and all notes, drafts, checks, or other commercial or negotiable paper falling due or maturing on either of said holidays shall be deemed as having matured on the day previous. APPROVED, June 28, 1870 by President Ulysses S. Grant.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:38 pm on Mon, Dec 12, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumbach wrote on 12/10 @ 1:59PM "Does Ms Bobin actually think Christians ever had such a monopoly?? Ms Bobin, you sound delusional. No reasonable person would think such a thing."

    Just in case you hadn't heard the news during the past 50 some-odd years of your life, Christmas Day is a federal holiday. Employers allow it as a paid holiday. No mail, no state or federal offices are open, and, until a few years ago, neither were any shops open on Christmas Day.

    Now, do you really want to know WHO is "delusional" here. I think that your enthusiasm to dispute anything I write is permitting you to shot yourself in the foot constantly. I'm surprised you can still walk, Mr. Baumbach.


     
  • John Kindseth posted at 3:33 pm on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    John Kindseth Posts: 245

    Do all of you bloggers [jb included] think it would be ok for teachers to put up organically grown, naturally trimmed, whole earth, non GM holly berries in their classrooms? Advise quickly before they get the OK.

    Attn Lincoln administrators: Take a cold shower.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:32 pm on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    I stated in my post that I am not that religious...I do not attend church on a regular basis...I don't pray...I am Native American and do talk to my grandfather...I am not an agnostic or an atheist. That said...I do believe in a higher power...I do believe in the sanctity of marriage as being primarily to procreate thus between a man and a woman, as has been the practice for thousands of years.

    I do not think you have to be married to love someone or join in a partnership...and as long as you do not try to shove your relationship in my space...that is your business...along with that, you do not need to know MY business. That has not been the practice of late however. To me the issue often turns to who controls whom...even in marriages, and that does not work for me. Having a piece of paper (the mantra for many years) does not make a marriage...nor does having children.

    A marriage between two people is hard work...a job at that. The initial "love" that most people feel for each other is, according to many psychologists and doctors, is really nothing more than "l-st" and the need to procreate. Eventually, those feelings dwindle and a different form of the relationship emerges...especially after the children are born, burt also during and after.

    The relationship between two men or between two women cannot procreate and cannot be the same as a man and a woman. Period. Trying to make something equal will never work...we have too many examples of that today. A g-a-y couple cannot procreate...not without a third party...which would necessaryily render it not a marriage but rather a joint venture....that alone is enough...you can call it anything else but it is not a marriage.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:42 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Sunderson stated...Mr. Baumbach, once you jump into a discussion and begin your ignorant, annoying barking, any possibility of thoughtful discourse is lost. You know from a previous thread that the case you repeat does not bear on this issue. When churches conduct business transactions in the public square they lose the right to discriminate. You, sir, are like a lonely and desperate stray dog, relentlessly patrolling the neighborhood and piddling on every blade of grass.

    It is you that suddenly jumped into the thread that I was already involved with... which is ok since this is a public opinion forum that everyone is welcome in. Unfortunately, you behave like a angry little boy throwing a temper tantrum rather than addressing the issues.

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 10:36 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 177

    G a y activities and relationships in particular dominate conservatives' thinking; they will eventually hijack every blog just to get close to the topic again. They cannot control themselves; it is the moth-to-flame effect.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:53 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    just curious...What does marriage have to do with Lincoln Unified or Christmas decorations?

     
  • Warner Sunderson posted at 8:45 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Warner Sunderson Posts: 53

    Mr. Baumbach, once you jump into a discussion and begin your ignorant, annoying barking, any possibility of thoughtful discourse is lost. You know from a previous thread that the case you repeat does not bear on this issue. When churches conduct business transactions in the public square they lose the right to discriminate. You, sir, are like a lonely and desperate stray dog, relentlessly patrolling the neighborhood and piddling on every blade of grass.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:25 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Sunderson... the point of all this is incrementalism. Some issues may take 100-200 years to come to frutition. One step at a time. The church may be protected today... but through evolution of law suits and politicians changing laws things change.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:18 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    When G a y Rights and Religious Liberties Clash
    by BARBARA BRADLEY HAGERTY

    In recent years, some states have passed laws giving residents the right to same-sex unions in various forms. G a y couples may marry in Massachusetts and California. There are civil unions and domestic partnerships in Vermont, New Jersey, Connecticut, New Hampshire and Oregon. Other states give more limited rights.

    Armed with those legal protections, same-sex couples are beginning to challenge policies of religious organizations that exclude them, claiming that a religious group's view that homosexual marriage is a sin cannot be used to violate their right to equal treatment. Now parochial schools, "parachurch" organizations such as Catholic Charities and businesses that refuse to serve g a y couples are being sued — and so far, the religious groups are losing.

     
  • Warner Sunderson posted at 8:17 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Warner Sunderson Posts: 53

    Mr. Adams, the state marriage license and a church wedding are separate right now. No one is required to get married in a church. Civil marriage ceremonies occur in city halls every day. The right to a civil marriage is what the Prop 8 case is all about. And we are in agreement about the ridiculous amount of energy and resources wasted on denying equal rights to a minority group.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:11 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Continued.....

    "Our law against discrimination does not allow [the group] to use those personal preferences, no matter how deeply held, and no matter — even if they're religiously based — as a grounds to discriminate," Lustberg says. "Religion shouldn't be about violating the law."
    The Methodist organization responded that it was their property, and the First Amendment protects their right to practice their faith without government intrusion. But Lustberg countered that the pavilion is open to everyone — and therefore the group could no more refuse to accommodate the lesbians than a restaurant owner could refuse to serve a black man. That argument carried the day. The state revoked the organization's tax exemption for the pavilion area. Hoffman figures they will lose $20,000.
    Now, with the help of the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF), a Christian legal firm, Hoffman is appealing the case to state court. He says religious freedom itself is in jeopardy.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:10 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr. Kinderman, on what evidence are you basing your prediction that legal pressure will come to bear on churches to perform same-sex marriages?

    There is clear and convincing evidence that political pressures ( legal and non-legal) have and are creating evolution of events that favor the rights of the
    G a y community. Mr Sunderson states that first amendment protects churches from this sort of intrusion..I would respond that it does not. For example, the Federal government could vote to repeal their tax exept status they currently have. They could write a number of laws that makes it difficult to keep their independence.
    The other obvious presurre is law suits brought by the g a y community against the church.
    01.http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486340

    a complaint with New Jersey's Division of Civil Rights, alleging the Methodists unlawfully discriminated against them based on sexual orientation. Attorney Lawrence Lustberg represents them.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 7:51 am on Sun, Dec 11, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1439

    Maybe the state marriage license and the church marriage need to separate. Churches can marry any combinations of men and women they want. Or don't want. The state just cares about the legal piece of paper forming a partnership.

    For the 1 man 1 woman thing and the procreation clause.... what about couples who can't have children and hire a surrogate or surrogates? In vitro fertilization?

    There seems to be a lot of energy wasted on who can or can't marry who ever.

     
  • Warner Sunderson posted at 10:22 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Warner Sunderson Posts: 53

    Mr. Kinderman, on what evidence are you basing your prediction that legal pressure will come to bear on churches to perform same-sex marriages? As was discussed in another forum, the first amendment protects churches from this sort of intrusion. Many refuse to marry divorcees, people of other religious faiths, and some still discriminate against mixed race couples. It's doubtful that many would marry an atheist couple as well. I am unaware of any successful lawsuit forcing a church to marry people in violation of their doctrine.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:03 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Sunderson stated... Pastor Nolton seems outraged that pagan symbols of the season might be disallowed ...

    No... Pastor Nolton did not seem outraged about anything... he was simply making an observation that we have just crossed the line of the absurd ... Mr Sunderson's point is a prime example of that.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 8:55 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2362

    As far as same-sex marriage is concerned, I would submit that as legislation is passed to permit such unions pressure will come to bear to attempt to force churches to perform unions between other than one man and one woman. What needs to happen is that the creation of a marriage would necessarily become a non-Christian function for those who desire to create such a non-traditional union. But Christian churches (or any other “religions” that also believe marriage should be between one man and one woman) that choose to not perform such ceremonies should be permitted to do so without any governmental interference. Along the way I suspect many toes will be stepped upon prior to arriving at that solution.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:54 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Mr Sunderson stated...How would a same-sex marriage step on your toes?

    How would putting pressure on politicians to write law that gave domestic partners the exact same rights as married people step on your toes?

     
  • Warner Sunderson posted at 7:02 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Warner Sunderson Posts: 53

    Mr. Maple states, "I believe a marriage is to form a family and procreate...marriage is for that reason...any other form of marriage other than a man and a woman takes a third party to procreate...if people want to live together as some do that is their business...don't push it into my face...and if someone else has a better idea...let's hear it... in others words stay off my toes."

    How would a same-sex marriage step on your toes?

     
  • Warner Sunderson posted at 6:54 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Warner Sunderson Posts: 53

    Mr. Houdack, I agree completely. Pastor Nolton seems outraged that pagan symbols of the season might be disallowed and then admits freely that a December 25th observance of the birth of Jesus is based on a false premise. What then is the point of your very unchristian celebration, Pastor Nolton?

     
  • Tim Litton posted at 5:39 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Tim Litton Posts: 24

    Not that anyone cares, but I totally agree with Mr. Houdack. Why do christains care so much about pagan idols anyway? Shouldn't Pastor Nolton know that these items have nothing to do with Christmas as far as the christian beliefs are concerned? It cracks me up that it even becomes an issue with christians. If anyone should be offended it should be the pagans.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 4:08 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    JOANNE, I looked real close and darned if I could find written anywhere in the Constitution that "You have the right not to get your feelings hurt". Obviously your copy is different than mine? Or, have you ever bothered to read it and are just making up stuff, as usual.

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 3:43 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 177

    It was Christian fundamentalists like Pastor Nolton who raised the loudest wail, complaining that false-saints like Santa Claus and pagan Christmas trees were robbing them of the full measure of their Christian joy, due to diluting the purity of their Christmas celebration. "Christmas isn't about holly and Christmas trees! Remember the reason for the Season" they intoned. Yes, remember the reason... the birth of their Christ Jesus (on which day they hijacked from the festival of Saturnalia), and co-opted the December 25th birthday of Mithra and Krishna and Horus and Buddha, Attis, Hercules, Quetzalcoatl, Augustus, Adonis, Osiris and Korbus and a host of others...all of whom pre-date the Jesus myth.

    This year, remember the REAL reason for the season; the tilt of the earth on its axis.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:39 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Somewhere I once read "freedom from religious persecution"...I read something similar on the walls in Dachau. Hmmm...can someone help me here?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:37 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    ABC...one-two-three...you and meeee...wasn't that a song? Good posts. I do believe however, that this is not political correctness. How do you correct a belief? Should I just stop believing when I in fact have been to the Valley...more than once? Whatever you believe is what you believe...they have no more right to tell me what to believe than I them.

    How is it political? If the politicians are telling someone they cannot have SC in their classroom are they not violating the separation of church and state? What is the difference...we are not politically mandating religion and we are certainly not denying the beliefs of the non-believers. I am not that religious...I don't own a gun...I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion...I don't kill just to kill...I believe a marriage is to form a family and procreate...marriage is for that reason...any other form of marriage other than a man and a woman takes a third party to procreate...if people want to live together as some do that is their business...don't push it into my face...and if someone else has a better idea...let's hear it... in others words stay off my toes.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:59 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin stated...Christians no long have a monopoly on holiday celebrations

    Does Ms Bobin actually think Christians ever had such a monopoly?? Ms Bobin, you sound delusional. No reasonable person would think such a thing.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 1:43 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1439

    I see Lincoln USD has pulled back from this proposed change. That won't stop the zealots from making a big deal about this. They seem to enjoy complaining.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:41 pm on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Pastor Nolton wrote: "Oh well, I want to wish all of you a peaceful, joyous Christmas filled with the love and warmth of family and friends."

    Ironic and unusual ending to letter, from a "man of God" by the way, who is apparently angry that the so-called "War on Christmas" has entered the public school system. I think that battle was waged long ago and religion (every religion) lost.

    Interesting that Pastor Nolton and others on FOX News, and especially Bill O'Reilly, (who, in response to Jon Stewart's mocking of the hypocritical displays of outrage about this "war," stated that Stewart was, "going to He....ll - how Christian is that?) make every effort each year to point out this imagined "war."

    Christians no long have a monopoly on holiday celebrations. If they wanted to dominate this field, they should have banned people of any other religion from entering this country. They didn't, so now they must live with the diversity and respect others. And, Mr. Chapman, please reference the Constitution in that regard.

    Isn't that what Christianity is all about? Just go on your way and celebrate however you wish and leave others to their traditions.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 9:33 am on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Sadly, Paster Nolton, we HAVE let political correctness mandate bizzare changes in our lives. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have the right to not get your feelings hurt. I am always amazed at radical factions whose sole purpose is to destroy traditions that have been around for centuries. I have made it a point to NOT patronize establishments that have eschewed the word Christmas in any of their advertisements and have instructed their personnel to use the phrase "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas".

     

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