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Why do taxpayers have to pay for others’ lifestyles?

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Posted: Saturday, March 24, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 6:00 am, Sat Mar 24, 2012.

Enough with Sandra Fluke! This so-called press conference was a set-up by Democrats to be a distraction from the horrendous record of Obama. And with the Democratic Party's willing accomplices, the national media, it's a never-ending assault over nothing.

Compared to all that's happening to us nationally and worldwide, Fluke and her buddies' love lives are irrelevant! And this insistence of certain groups of people who think it's their right to force other groups of people to pay for their lifestyles is downright immoral.

This righteous indignation over what Fluke was called is nothing compared to what Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Patricia Heaton and others have been called. It's pornographic, demeaning and at times life-threatening. Even Palin's child who has Down syndrome is brought into the mix in vile and despicable language.

Have you people ever heard of personal responsibility? I couldn't care less what people do in the bedroom or anywhere else, but what ticks me off is when they expect me and everybody else to pay for it. You've made your own bed, now pay for it yourself.

Ron Portal

Lodi

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96 comments:

  • John Lucas posted at 12:00 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Joanne, thank you so much for the link to the actual exchange that Mr Portal is lying about.

    This is Mr Portal lying:

    When a few other writers and I challenged him with facts and figures, he claimed he was from a long line of prosperous businessmen that could buy and sell us poor folk who dare challenge his indisputable wisdom, then declared that he would not comment again.

    This is Pat Maples’s facts and figures that Mr Portal said I was challenged with:

    Pat Maple said:

    by men who had no connection to real life where you have to get down and dirty to earn enough to put food on the table,clothes on their family, and a roof over their head. EXACTLY Mr Lucas...you are speaking about me, my father, mother, brothers and sister, uncles, aunts and cousins...ALL of us have jobs (or businesses which are twice the size of a job)...I work everyday, from 5 to 9 not 9 to 5. I employ 8 to 10 people and am responsible for the welfare of their families by providing those jobs.

    You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW. You might think you know what it is to be an astronaut but you really don't KNOW what it is to be one. LBJ and a few other Dems proved that your THRORY doesn't work.

    Is there a single fact of figure in this self glorifying , egotistical rant? If there is I do not see it.
    the sentence "You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW." is so telling of his mindset. He is saying that he is such a super human that any idea some lowly sub human like me is beneath consideration. He is saying that ideas and facts do not matter only his opinion is valid because his grand life experience trumps everything.


    This was my reply:

    Just who do think you are? I will have know that there has never been a person in my family who was on welfare. We are doctors, lawyers, judges, business people, farmers, teachers, truck drivers, police officers and many other occupations to many to mention. If you only have 8 to 10 people working for you there are any number of people in my family who could buy and sell you. My family has fought in nearly every war here since before the revolution. All my uncles were in WW II, My brother spent a year in Vietnam and I spent 19 months there leaving some blood on the ground.
    
We vote Democratic. Why? We know History. The Great Depression was preceded by 8 years insane Conservative policies. The Biggest financial disaster since that time in 2008 was preceded by 8 years insane Conservative policies. We are not stupid. What you advocate on a daily basis here are the same policies that caused both these financial disasters.

    Do you think you are the only person in the world who has worked long hours? I did not know what a weekend was until I was in my 50’s. I have worked 100 hour weeks for months on end in my life. What really bothers me is your self righteous arrogance. You are so busy making Personal attacks on people I find it hard to believe you get any work done. Do you get off calling people names? Is your life so shallow and you so mean spirited that things like gratitude, compassion, empathy, forbearance, forgiveness, generosity, humility can find no place in your being?
My family votes Democratic for these reasons also
    
1.There but for the grace of God go I

    2.Take the log out of your eye before you worry about the mote in your brothers

    3.Let him who is without stone cast the first stone
    
4.Do unto others as you would have do unto you

    5.You cannot serve God and money
    
6.Where your treasure is,  there will your heart be also.
    
You are probably one our self righteous right wing Christian brothers. That may be true but you are no follower of Jesus. You are just a fan.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:59 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    does he?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:09 pm on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Good post DB: One question for mrb: When a preacher quotes the Bible is he plagairize God?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:36 am on Fri, Mar 30, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    A Different Perspective on Plagiarism
    Dahlia Syahrani Md. Yusof
    dyusof(at)yahoo.com
    Multimedia University (Cyberjaya, Malaysia


    Academic and Non-Academic Plagiarism
    The debate on what constitutes plagiarism is extended not just within the academic circle but also to the real world practice. Martin (1994) argues that plagiarism has two different standards, one in the intellectual field and the other in the institutional field, referring to the workplace setting. He said that although plagiarism is strictly abhorred in the academic society, it is not so in the work environment. Plagiarism is said to occur in the form of ghostwriting, honorary authorship, and bureaucratic authorship.

    Martin (1994) mentions the case of ghostwriting when a politician, movie star or business executive gives a speech, writes a book or a newspaper column. In actuality, the authors are not themselves but another person who sometimes goes unacknowledged or just put in small print somewhere at the acknowledgement section.

    Another type of plagiarism that goes unpunished in the real world setting is the type of “honorary authorship” where a supervisor of a laboratory who contributed little on the research is listed as co-author of the research paper (LaFollette, 1992 cited in Martin, 1994).

    Another common type of plagiarism is at the bureaucratic level where it is common for higher level officers to take credit and put their name on documents which are the work of their subordinates (Martin, 1994).

    Martin argues that it is quite unfair to put emphasis on plagiarism in the academic world, calling to apply a different standard totally in the real world setting. Thus it is quite unfair to punish students severely in the academic context but overlook the issue in the real world setting which has much more importance and significance on individuals and society in general.

    All these differing meanings of plagiarism as well as the different standards that are applied may give cause to students to misinterpret the real definition and values of plagiarism. Students may question or challenge the rules of plagiarism when many parties beyond the academic world practice it and justify it with some other name. The real world practice even clouds students judgment and understanding of what is and what is not plagiarism, a subject that is becoming more and more unclear in the western world, the place of its origin.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:42 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    eric stated... When a person post to a forum I believe it is assumed that they are posting there own thoughts on a subject.

    Funny... So many posts of Erics seem like other peoples thoughts. I rarely assume that eric's posts are his own thoughts.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:38 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Barrow stated...Plagiarism is a serious offense resulting in expulsion from institutes of higher education and ruin of professional careers. When someone writes an article for a web site newspaper or magazine it is considered intellectual property if you use those writings without giving proper citation you are indeed stealing from them and misleading those you are writing for. You can as you say use their writings to form an opinion but to cut and paste directly is indeed plagiarism.

    Why Mr Barrow? ... if you look at the institutions that considers plagiarism a serious offense, which you identified, why is it serious? It is serious because in this situations, people gain and benefit in some way by their activity. Students get higher grades than they deserve for example. In order for these institutions to remain credible, it is essential to monitor plagiarism and to make sure people do not discredit the institution by letting it happen and letting people profit from their bad behavior.

    Please cite other industries where people do not benefit in any way and do not harm an industry where that industry considers what you define as plagiarism a serious offense and punishes people like you described. If you can do that, it would be interesting and informative. In Pats case, he neither benefits, profits or gains in any way. The institution ( online opinion forum) is not damaged as well. Plagiarism is not illegal for a reason... but can be unethical... so in deciding ethics, normally, if your behavior harms another, its unethical...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:25 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Barrow stated...
    As usual DB misses the point any information taken from the website of an individual who controls the content of the same website is by its nature biased and should not be used as reference material. I would imagine if Hitler had a website it would show him in a favorable light...

    Please Mr Barrow, when will you actually focus on something relevant.
    In your above example, a reasonable person would then refute the claims on Hitlers website. Who cares if he had one or not. The point is to accept or refute the information.
    Since you refuse to engage in any type in reasonable thinking, its difficult to have have a meaningful discussion. You still have not disputed any content on what Pat posted... It appears that your argument is so weak that you refuse to engage in reasonable thought.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:31 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Let's see...I graduated college in 1977...masters program 1979...hmmmm.

    I see you did not take my advice...offering evidence of information is not plagairism...it is sources for people to refer to. Maybe you would like to read my book on the Mirus Wall...called the Tickets...to be published this fall.

    Please don't try to lecture me on plagairism, writing, creative writing, creative license or how to put together a good argument. It would be idiotic to do research into the statements often made here...and I sir am not an idiot. Ask mskl.

    BTW plagairism has an element of gain in it...where have I personally gained anything? Go take a shower...

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:07 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1448

    Patrick.. When a person post to a forum I believe it is assumed that they are posting there own thoughts on a subject.
    Plagiarism is a serious offense resulting in expulsion from institutes of higher education and ruin of professional careers. When someone writes an article for a web site newspaper or magazine it is considered intellectual property if you use those writings without giving proper citation you are indeed stealing from them and misleading those you are writing for. You can as you say use their writings to form an opinion but to cut and paste directly is indeed plagiarism.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:00 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    This like most encyclopedia cites allow for revisions as requested...try it some time

    View source for Ronald Reagan

    ← Ronald Reagan

    Jump to: navigation, search

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    The reason for protection can be found in the protection log. If there are no relevant entries in the protection log, the page may have been moved after being protected.

    What can I do?
    If you have a user account, log in first. If you do not yet have an account, you may create one; after 4 days and 10 edits, you will be able to edit semi-protected pages.
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    If you have noticed an error or have a suggestion for a simple change, you can submit an edit request by clicking the link below and following the instructions. An established user may then make the change on your behalf. Please check the article's discussion page first, in case the issue is already being discussed.

    Submit an edit request. Have at it young man.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:57 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrb: you are swimming around in the same cesspool as mskl. My post was "from several easily accessed informational sites"...one being Wikipedia...one from Carters, the comments about FDR and LBJ are observations. If you care to correct any of the information please contact them...I use it simply to set the stage or pose a question.

    Plagairism: copying, lifting, stealing, illegal use, breach of copyright, bootlegging (I got this from my Words site) : the process of copying another person's idea or written work and claiming it as original (show me my claim)...stealing someone's work or idea (can you tell me whom I stole this from...I would like to send a letter of apology)...what you are claiming is that the words belong to someone else and I can't use them to form an opinion or position or illustrate something. How silly you are is that by DB or BD using the phrase..."you are an idiot"...you would claim they are stealing something from me, just because I used it to describe you or mskl or some other slow thinkers

    Ronald Reagan:
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I also use Encarta and other Historical sites. Try it some time.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:38 pm on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mrs Bobin: Have you gotten the help for your husband?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 9:07 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Some really good posts, Eric Barrow. Well done.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 7:13 am on Thu, Mar 29, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1448

    As usual DB misses the point any information taken from the website of an individual who controls the content of the same website is by its nature biased and should not be used as reference material. I would imagine if Hitler had a website it would show him in a favorable light.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:31 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Eric is quite silly... he wants to debate the location of the information rather than it's content. Its good to know that regardless of where the information came from, Eric cannot dispute the information which is the important point.

    In addition, it is not uncommon for multiple websites to have exact information... that is obvious since... for example, you can go to the DNC website and find exact duplicates of information at the CPUSA.org web site ( CPUSA= Communist Party United States of America)...word for word... I think an interesting debate would be to distinguish the difference between the Democratic party and the communist party... the similarities are so striking, that a reasonable person might not be able to tell the difference. I think it might be the shortest debate in history.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 6:46 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1448

    Patrick it appears you our plagiarizing a plagiarizer here is the text from Reagan’s website (http://reaganhome.org/history/president-reagan) you will see that it is exactly the same text from your post. If you would site your sources we would not have these misunderstandings. Maybe it’s you who needs to get a clue how these things work.
    As president, Reagan implemented sweeping new political and economic initiatives. His policies, dubbed “Reaganomics,” advocated reducing tax rates to spur economic growth, controlling the money supply to reduce inflation, deregulation of the economy, and reducing government spending.
    In his first term he survived an assassination attempt, took a hard line against labor unions, and ordered military actions in Grenada. He was reelected in a landslide in 1984, proclaiming it was “Morning in America.”
    His second term was primarily marked by foreign matters, such as the ending of the Cold War, the 1986 bombing of Libya, and the revelation of the Iran-Contra Affair. Reagan supported anti-Communist movements worldwide and spent his first term forgoing the strategy of détente by ordering a massive military buildup in an arms race with the USSR. Reagan negotiated with Soviet General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev culminating in the INF Treaty and the decrease of both countries’ nuclear arsenals.

    I would have no idea how much was saved by the ending of the cold war perhaps you could give your estimate on that figure and while you are at it maybe you could answer my question as to the parallels of Reagan’s first term in office and Barack Hussein Obama’s you seem to give Reagan a wide berth but fail to do the same for our current President.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:18 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    No Mr B: My post was from several easily accessed informational sites...none from Reagans...didn't know he had one. Three years of an empty suit and you still want to blame Bush...wow.... I lived through Carter and Reagan.

    Please answer my question...how much do you think he save by forcing the Russians to bring down that wall and stop the Cold War...which helped the country recover for one of the biggest recession since the Depression. FDR's recovery was greatly helped by WWII...which some say he secretly and purposfully inched us into. LBJ did the same thing in Viet Nam and with his Great Society...which incidentally Billy Bob put a temporary end to.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 2:56 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1448

    Here is another opinion of reagans policies unlike your post I will site my sources.

    The Reagan economy was a one-hit wonder. Yes, there was a boom in the mid-1980s, as the economy recovered from a severe recession. But while the rich got much richer, there was little sustained economic improvement for most Americans. By the late 1980s, middle-class incomes were barely higher than they had been a decade before — and the poverty rate had actually risen.
    When the inevitable recession arrived, people felt betrayed — a sense of betrayal that Mr. Clinton was able to ride into the White House.
    why would a self-proclaimed progressive say anything that lends credibility to this rewriting of history — particularly right now, when Reaganomics has just failed all over again?
    Like Ronald Reagan, President Bush began his term in office with big tax cuts for the rich and promises that the benefits would trickle down to the middle class. Like Reagan, he also began his term with an economic slump, then claimed that the recovery from that slump proved the success of his policies.
    And like Reaganomics — but more quickly — Bushonomics has ended in grief. The public mood today is as grim as it was in 1992. Wages are lagging behind inflation. Employment growth in the Bush years has been pathetic compared with job creation in the Clinton era. Even if we don’t have a formal recession — and the odds now are that we will — the optimism of the 1990s has evaporated.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/21/opinion/21krugman.html

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 2:54 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1448

    Very impressive Patrick your last post was cut and paste directly from Reagans own website and remarkably says only good things about Reagan.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:24 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    No Mr Barrow: Only that Carter wasn't as bad as BO. Carter invented the Department of Energy and the Department of Education...what flops. No energy policy/plan and a Dept ran by unions that has NOT improved education one iota...as the world passes by.

    Carter signed Law H.R. 5860 aka Public Law 96-185 known as The Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979 bailing out Chrysler Corporation and canceled military pay raises during a time of high inflation and government deficits. Sound familiar???

    On April 18, 1977 Carter delivered a televised speech declaring that the U.S. energy crisis during the 1970s was the moral equivalent of war. Carter encouraged energy conservation by all U.S. citizens and installed solar water heating panels on the White House,[49][50] and wore sweaters while turning down the heat within the White House. Boy I felt better about that...as I fended off the creditors to my home..

    Carter took over from: the first person appointed to the vice-presidency under the terms of the 25th Amendment (after Spiro Agnew had resigned), when he became President upon Richard Nixon's resignation on August 9, 1974, he became the only President of the United States who was never elected. Hmmmm....

    Reagan: As president, Reagan implemented sweeping new political and economic initiatives. His supply-side economic policies, dubbed "Reaganomics", advocated reducing tax rates to spur economic growth, controlling the money supply to reduce inflation, deregulation of the economy, and reducing government spending. In his first term he survived an assassination attempt, took a hard line against labor unions, and ordered an invasion of Grenada. He was reelected in a landslide in 1984, proclaiming that it was "Morning in America." His second term was primarily marked by foreign matters, such as the ending of the Cold War, the 1986 bombing of Libya, and the revelation of the Iran-Contra affair. Publicly describing the Soviet Union as an "evil empire,"[1] he supported anti-communist movements worldwide and spent his first term forgoing the strategy of détente by ordering a massive military buildup in an arms race with the USSR. Reagan negotiated with Soviet General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev, culminating in the INF Treaty and the decrease of both countries' nuclear arsenals.

    How much do you think we saved by ending the Cold War??? Get a clue Mr B.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:06 pm on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr L: I just caught your comment: "If you only have 8 to 10 people working for you there are any number of people in my family who could buy and sell you."

    A Democratic comment if ever one was spoken. You are small we are BIG.

    NO they cannot buy and sell me...I am not for sale...not to anyone.

    You believe that anyone can be bought and sold...like your party? You believe that money is all powerful...like nature or God? You believe that a man's soul is for sale? You believe that when you stood up for someone else...they owed you a debt of gratitude? You believe that evil lurks in every man...like BO? You believe a lot of things...so do I...but NONE of your aboves.

    Just so you know...you pssised off those 10 guys, their 8 wives, 11 children, my wife, two sons, one daughter, two daughter-in-laws, one son-in-law, 5 grandchildren, my sister, brother-in-law, 6 nephews, ll grand nephews and nieces, 300 relatives and thusands of my customers...ALL with one stupid comment...congratulations.

    BTW I have been in business 30 years, have over 5,000 customers (never a complaint) and have roofed nearly 1000 restaurants of one of the largest corporations in the world (trading at $100 a share on the stock market)...so what...to you...so what!

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:39 am on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1448

    DB & Patrick are saying that Reagan inherited a bad economy therefore he is not responsible for the poor economic numbers during his first term in office? That sounds strangley familiar can you think of a more recent situation where that happened?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 8:35 am on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Another great post from John Lucas! Keep posting John!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:45 am on Wed, Mar 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Pat, I do prefer your way of articulating reality. I love when people make a complex issue easy... as you do many times... however, for some reason there is a certain segment ( like eric) that loves to look at statistics and specific numbers that look official... so for them, a long winded post like mine was my intent to communicate at their level...Thank you for communicating at my level.. simple is better.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:23 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    DB: For those of us who suffered through the Carter regime...nearly losing our homes then too...I don't think we need to speak of too many numbers...credit cards were at 18% gas lines were long and peanuts were about what was paid.

    The best thing from the Carter admin...non-re-election and Billy Beer.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:41 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Eric demonstrates how statistics can be used to mischaracterise any truth one desires. He completely ignores what caused the problem and that Reagan had to deal with it and succeeded.

    When Carter took office in 1977, the inflation rate was 5.22%. Four years later it was 11.83% and during his presidency it actually hit as high as 14.78%! Our current inflation rate is 1.07%.
    http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Infla…

    The cost of living adjustments (COLA) when Carter took office was 5.9%. Three years later it was 14.3%. Our COLA for January 2009 is 5.8%.
    http://www.socialsecurity.gov/cola/autom…

    When Carter took office in January of 1977, interest rates were 6.25% When left left office four years later they were 20.00%! Right now, our interest rates are 3.25%.
    http://mortgage-x.com/general/indexes/pr…
    Can you imagine how difficult it was back then to try to buy a house with interest rates that high? It really was awful.

    The Iran hostage situation was so embarrassing. It was horrible to have to wait in a long line just to get gas. Gas was rationed during his presidency.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 4:02 pm on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1448

    Ron here are some facts about Reagan that also can't be ignored. Reagan was in office during the a recession that lasted from 7/81 through 11/82, in the first four months of 1982 GDP dropped 6.4%. In November of 82 unemployment hit 10.8% and stayed above 10% for 10 months in 1989, during Reagans second recession, GDP was -3.5%

    In looking up some of this info I found that Fox News reports that Jane Fonda is going to play Nancy Reagan in a new movie about Ronald's life. Now thats funny Hanoi Jane as the first lady

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 8:46 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Lucas: FIRST let me thank you and your relatives for their service to this country. So please read the post prior to you to MsB.

    Second: Look at who votes with Dems...and who votes with Reps. I vote somewhere in between.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 7:57 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Mr. Lucas...didn't you read the statistics I gave on the harm FDR's policies did to our country with the top down micro-managing of the American people? Then the prosperity that resulted from the Reagan free market principles? These are facts that cannot be ignored. You never mentioned any of it. And the middle class that burst on the scene after WW2 was the result of all our allies economies in shambles or com-
    pletely destroyed and ours was untouched by war. We became the world's supplier of everything the world needed to rebuild and with that demand our middle class grew...not because of FDR's policies..but in spite of his policies. It's also unfortunate that you've decided to take your marbles and go home because your assertions are challenged. Democrats are such an emotional lot. As for me making personal attacks...your words...I was describing the life experiences or lack thereof , of the men whose writings liberals follow religiously. I say religiously because liberalism has taken on the form of religion to many and to question any of the precepts of liberalism is tantamount to heresy and those committing such transgressions are not only wrong...they are criminally so and should be punished to the full extent of the liberal bible...and there are so many prophets by the names of Engle, Marx, Alinsky, FDR, Wilson,Mao,Stalin,and on and on. At any rate, Mr. Lucas, I wish you well. I was once a democrat...the funny thing is I believe the same as when I was a democrat...problem was the Democratic Party morphed into something completely foreign and anti-American. I'm talking about the leadership...not the rank and file. I left the party reluctantly because all my relatives,grandparents,etc. are all democrats..most of whom vote democrat without question because that's the way its always been. Take care Mr. Lucas

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:36 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2813

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    I would gladly contribute my tax dollars for Mr. Docktor's sex change operation. A change in perspective might do him some good.

    -We thank you Ms. Bobin for making it clear you are an advocate of taxpayer funded
    sex change operations. You do have a track record on these bloggs of being a proponent of anything antithetic to Conservatism.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:18 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated... I will fight until my dying day their insane ideology and that is what I have a problem with.

    I appreciate the passion you embrace in doing what you think is right. I respect people who participate in the process and debate of right and wrong, how our country should evolve and what kind of society we live in. You and I are polar opposites who sees things through a different prism.

    You perceive conservatives diminish our society and I perceive liberals do... However, I sincerely believe liberals need conservatives and conservatives needs liberals.
    Just like a good marriage, the woman and man are better off as a team than separate.

    I thank you for the points you made as it gives insight into how liberals think and feel. I hope you gain something from me and other conservatives as well... In my thinking, I want to be left alone by government. I know that is not possible, but hopefully liberals and conservatives can learn from each other just as you suggested we should learn from other countries.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:00 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Darrell, this the last response you will ever get from me. In answer to your statement:

    I really think your hatred for conservatives clouds your judgment.

    I do not hate Conservatives no matter how much their insane policies have hurt our country financially, socially or the dumbing down of the political discourse by their ranting and raving. I will fight untill my dying day their insane ideology and that is what I have a problem with.
    Goodnight and goodbye. I wish you all the best in your life.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:50 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    So I ask Mr Lucas in reference to my last post, just as My Lucas stated to Pat...Just who do think you are? Your family can buy and sell Pat personally...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:47 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated to Pat...If you only have 8 to 10 people working for you there are any number of people in my family who could buy and sell you.

    I had to read this three times... It make me wonder what kind of person would actually use this way to articulate how successful his family line has been...

    SO... Some in Mr Lucas's family could buy and sell Pat... coud buy and sell Pat.... could buy and sell Pat..."COULD BUY AND SELL PAT"

    This kind of language to me is used by people who think of people in a way that cannot be good. No matter how successful someone is, in my view, they can never buy and sell anyone... he didn't say buy and sell his company... he said buy and sell you ( Pat personally) It sounds as if Mr Lucas thinks of people as something that can be bought and sold like a pet. I have always thought of extreme liberals in that way... They have always enjoyed forcing people to do what they think best... social security for all, medicare for all, does not matter if you want it or not ... you are forced to participate... just like a person who would say... I could buy and sell you. very cold hearted in my view.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:32 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...What you advocate on a daily basis here are the same policies that caused both these financial disasters.

    Please Mr Lucas... you state you know history which dictates you always vote for democrats. You then assign all blame to the conservatives ... not some ... all...not a majority of ...but all.
    Sounds to me you are only reading the parts of history that has been filtered by your extreme bias. If you make a statement that "we are not stupid" then it would seem that you would do what smart people do... they objectively approach a subject and balance the pros and cons of each angle then make a decision. To think that Liberalism is always on the correct side and Conservatism is always on the wrong side in my opinion "stupid" Both sides contribute to failure except in your world of course.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:23 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...We vote Democratic. Why? We know History

    Sorry, it should have been written... Why? We THINK we know history.

    How silly. Whose history? If you knew all history, you would vote for conservatives and liberals... you would never say " all conservatives" are any way just as there are many different kind of liberals. Many in my family are liberals but none are like you Mr Lucas.
    My mother and wife were teachers and leaned toward being liberal... I vote for people who are democrats who are fiscally conservative but socially liberal. One size fits all are for the misinformed and ill-educated... Since you always vote democratic, one size fits all for you.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:12 am on Tue, Mar 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...This is so Conservative of you. Looking at what happened to other economies (ours too, of course) when following FDR's four main policies is so absurd for you because the when they are employed they result in large vibrant middle classes

    RESPONSE... that was so Lucas of you to not comprehend the obvious. I did not say in any way that one should not look at what other countries do to stimulate their ecomonmy and bring a better life to its people. That was not part of the discussion.
    You were very specific and asked which countries adapted laws and regulations that out country utilized in our country. If you would have articulated what you now state, I would have agreed and said yes, its a great idea to learn from other countries and apply what can work here.

    Lastly, scientific method has nothing to do with left or right positions ... your point is again silly beyond belief. People of science no matter conservative or liberal in thinking use scientific method. In fact, I appreciate and support studies using a double blind standard to determine accuracy of a position. I really think your hatred for conservatives clouds your judgment.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 11:22 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Wow, John Lucas! Great post @ 4:29 pm. Well said.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:30 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    sorry the previous comment should start

    Patrick Maple said

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:29 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    by men who had no connection to real life where you have to get down and dirty to earn enough to put food on the table,clothes on their family, and a roof over their head. EXACTLY Mr Lucas...you are speaking about me, my father, mother, brothers and sister, uncles, aunts and cousins...ALL of us have jobs (or businesses which are twice the size of a job)...I work everyday, from 5 to 9 not 9 to 5. I employ 8 to 10 people and am responsible for the welfare of their families by providing those jobs.
    You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW. You might think you know what it is to be an astronaut but you really don't KNOW what it is to be one. LBJ and a few other Dems proved that your THRORY doesn't work.

    Just who do think you are? I will have know that there has never been a person in my family who was on welfare. We are doctors, lawyers, judges, business people, farmers, teachers, truck drivers, police officers and many other occupations to many to mention. If you only have 8 to 10 people working for you there are any number of people in my family who could buy and sell you. My family has fought in nearly every war here since before the revolution. All my uncles were in WW II, My brother spent a year in Vietnam and I spent 19 months there leaving some blood on the ground.
    We vote Democratic. Why? We know History. The Great Depression was preceded by 8 years insane Conservative policies. The Biggest financial disaster since that time in 2008 was preceded by 8 years insane Conservative policies. We are not stupid. What you advocate on a daily basis here are the same policies that caused both these financial disasters.
    Do you think you are the only person in the world who has worked long hours? I did not know what a weekend was until I was in my 50’s. I have worked 100 hour weeks for months on end in my life. What really bothers me is your self righteous arrogance. You are so busy making Personal attacks on people I find it hard to believe you get any work done. Do you get off calling people names? Is your life so shallow and you so mean spirited that things like gratitude, compassion, empathy, forbearance, forgiveness, generosity, humility can find no place in your being?
    My family votes Democratic for these reasons also
    1.There but for the grace of God go I
    2.Take the log out of your eye before you worry about the mote in your brothers
    3.Let him who is without stone cast the first stone
    4.Do unto others as you would have do unto you
    5.You cannot serve God and money
    6.Where your treasure is,  there will your heart be also.
    You are probably one our self righteous right wing Christian brothers. That may be true but you are no follower of Jesus. You are just a fan.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:55 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    I help to honor my father and brothers...when you get help...give help by asking a veteran if he needs help.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:54 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Ms Bobin: Contact Suzi Vinci at the AMVETS office in Sacto (916) 364-6792. If she does not answer leave a message...she will call you back. Ask for the SJ or Livermore branch. If you do not get the help you need contact me at my office RoofRangers (209) 745-5753 and I will try to help. When your husband exited the service he was required to give the county an original certified copy of his DD214. They SHOULD be able to do that. One other source for his records is with the National Archives...they can send a certified copy of his entire service record (might cost a few $$ but I don't think so).

    Start Your Military Service Record (DD Form 214) Request
    www.archives.gov › Veterans' Service Records

    How to Request Military Service Records, Military Personnel Files, Veterans Records, Discharge Papers, Separation Documents, DD214, or Prove Military ...

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:47 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    by men who had no connection to real life where you have to get down and dirty to earn enough to put food on the table,clothes on their family, and a roof over their head. EXACTLY Mr Lucas...you are speaking about me, my father, mother, brothers and sister, uncles, aunts and cousins...ALL of us have jobs (or businesses which are twice the size of a job)...I work everyday, from 5 to 9 not 9 to 5. I employ 8 to 10 people and am responsible for the welfare of their families by providing those jobs.

    You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW. You might think you know what it is to be an astronaut but you really don't KNOW what it is to be one. LBJ and a few other Dems proved that your THRORY doesn't work.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:14 pm on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Darrel said:

    My answer to you is ...who could possibly care what other countries did or did not do to embrace rules and regulations from our country in their country...you question is beyond absurd.

    This is so Conservative of you. Looking at what happened to other economies (ours too, of course) when following FDR's four main policies is so absurd for you because the when they are employed they result in large vibrant middle classes. This goes against Conservative ideology and the obvious evidence of my thesis must be ignored even if it cannot be refuted. Learning from past experience is part of the scientific method and is something to be avoided by Consevatives for it results in a better understanding of reality and gets us closer to the truth. As we all know reality and truth have a Liberal bias.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:33 am on Mon, Mar 26, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...It is very simple. I just articulated a thesis which is:
    "irrelevant" since a thesis is a hypothetical proposition, especially one put forth without proof... what is the point of discussing, especially when he wants to engage in a fantasy of... what countries did not use his hypothetical declaration...

    Honestly Mr Lucas... It is becoming more and more clear why you stated it is difficult to have a conversation with someone who does not think statistics are enough to determine truth.
    I think your world of theory, hypotheticals, fastasy and asking questions that could have no possible answer pertinent to the topic has diminished your credibility substantially.

    My answer to you is ...who could possibly care what other countries did or did not do to embrace rules and regulations from our country in their country... you question is beyond absurd.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:39 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    to repeat what I said in another post but I think it is relevant here.

    Darrell you amaze me. It is very simple. I just articulated a thesis which is:
    FDR over time he he instituted four main policies.
    !. A highly progressive income tax
    2. Real financial regulation of the banks and Wall St.
    3. Labor laws evening the playing field between employer and employee.
    Keynesian economics.
    My question is really just a simple one. Name a country in history that has or had a large middle class that did not follow FDR’s four policies. There never has been one and never will be one. The bible said it best. Ye shall know them by their fruit.
    The core of the matter is not who had the ideas. It is whether the ideas work or not. Our experience is that nations that use them build strong vibrant middle classes. All you have to do is look at the United States, England, Sweden,Finland, France , Australia,, New Zealand,,Japan and many more.
    The truth is that these countries and many others followed these policies and were successful at building a large middle classes. That is just what happened and it does not make any difference who came up with idea. Period.
    What has been your arguments?
    1.If a person has power like a president does, it is important to know what life experience the person has.
    2.Mr Lucas does what all liberals who enjoy forcing people to do what the want.
    3.He is the one that brought up world economics and now that Ron responds by discussing leaders of other countries, Mr Lucas suddenly loses his appetite for debate and pretends to only be interesting in democracies.
    These are all straw man arguments and none of them address my central thesis.
    Name a country in history that has or had a large middle class that did not follow FDR’s four policies.
    Yours and Ron’s use of logical fallacies and unwarranted personal attacks are just examples of intellectual dishonesty and an undisciplined mindset.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:00 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated to Ron...
This time you attacked personally FDR for having lived a life of privilege.

    Interesting thatMr Lucas uses the term attack... when Ron was simply setting straight reality. If a person has power like a president does, it is important to know what lif'e experience the person has. It certainly is an issue in Mitt Romney's campaign. He describes his experience in private sector business as one reason to vote for him.
    His liberal critics are blasting him for his wealth and his inability to relate to the common man... so in keeping in spirit with what liberal thinkers say is important criteria in evaluating our leaders, it would make sense for Ron to point out the life of privledge FRD had and how his policies have no consideration for the common man.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:00 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...
This time you attacked personally FDR for having lived a life of privilege. You then brought up Karl Marx who was a communist and what we are talking about is Capitalism.

    If it were not so sad, it would be funny. Mr Lucas does what all liberals who enjoy forcing people to do what the want. Mr Lucas brings up the argument that FDR and his policies produced direct benefit for not only united states, but the world. Mr Lucas also asked me about any country that did not adapt FDR's policies and his leadership that still developed a high quality middle class. Since you maintain that a leaders power, policies and leadership is instrumental in a nations economic health, it is fair, constructive, and productive to talk about all leaders of any country. He is the one that brought up world economics and now that Ron responds by discussing leaders of other countries, Mr Lucas suddenly loses his appetite for debate and pretends to only be interesting in democracies... Could Mr Lucas be any more disingenuous? I don't think so.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 5:14 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    For all who label Obama a Democrat, Socialist or even a Marxist. Finally, after exhausting research, his form of ideology has been defined by one word;
    INEPTOCRACY: (in-ep-toc'-Ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 4:38 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    Thanks for the info, Mr. Maple. He did talk to a gentleman from Galt who had a similar experience and he gave him some contacts that he had used and indeed, in his case, the timeline was reduced to just over a year.

    I had spoken with the SJ County Veteran's Services when I went down to get the DD214's certified and that gentleman said their office could help, but when my husband went in they told him there was nothing they could do, so that was confusing.

    I will pass along your info. Again, appreciate your mentioning these agencies.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:40 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Ron Portal said:

    Mr. Lucas' assumption that FDR saved civilization by his four point revolution is also flawed. The progressive income tax,regulation of banks and Wall Street, labor laws bringing to us unions [which in the beginning was necessary but now has become as big a problem as big gov't] and the other that I don't remember weren't new with FDR but had been around for years...most notably with Woodrow Wilson. Who,like Obama, was an academic with no real life experience in business or anything else.
FDR himself had lived a life of privilege and had no real connection to common people and their hardships. For that matter,also, Karl Marx never worked a day in his life living off of his wife's inheritance from her father. Isn't it ironic those who claim to be for the common man follow precepts put down by men who had no connection to real life where you have to get down and dirty to earn enough to put food on the table,clothes on their family, and a roof over their head.

    You are doing what all Conservatives do when challenged with a very basic question that stumps them. They introduce straw man arguments ( I suggest you look it up on the internet). 
This time you attacked personally FDR for having lived a life of privilege. You then brought up Karl Marx who was a communist and what we are talking about is Capitalism. An idea is true or false based on the idea itself. Nothing else. To attack an idea with personal attacks on the person who had the idea or bring people who are not germane to the argument is intellectual dishonesty and should not be part of political debate. If you notice I do not attack Conservatives but I attack their ideas.
    I will repeat what I said:

    My question is really just a simple one. Name a country in history that has or had a large middle class that did not follow FDR’s four policies. There never has been one and never will be one. The bible said it best. Ye shall know them by their fruit.

    PS. Do not feel bad. I have asked this question for years and no Conservative has had a cogent answer yet.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 2:25 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "Pat, let me clarify... I still do not perceive that hate was in your heart. Quite the contrary... I think because you care and have compassion, you get irritated and respond to that you perceive is not good. I do not call that hate at all. I do not think your spirit and soul is filled with bitterness. I think it is filled with the right stuff where real hate cannot penetrate.
    I do believe Sam has a point about stress and how it can lead to some unwanted medical conditions. But I know people like you... you have love in your heart...not hate. The core of all your posts originates from what you perceive to be good and how others abuse goodness. Just like Mr Kinderman, never see the hate. See frustration and words reflecting that frustration... but not hate... just my opinion."

    How nice of you, Darrell.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 12:17 pm on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Mr. Lucas' assumption that FDR saved civilization by his four point revolution is also flawed. The progressive income tax,regulation of banks and Wall Street, labor laws bringing to us unions [which in the beginning was necessary but now has become as big a problem as big gov't] and the other that I don't remember weren't new with FDR but had been around for years...most notably with Woodrow Wilson. Who,like Obama, was an academic with no real life experience in business or anything else.
    FDR himself had lived a life of privilege and had no real connection to common people and their hardships. For that matter,also, Karl Marx never worked a day in his life living off of his wife's inheritance from her father. Isn't it ironic those who claim to be for the common man follow precepts put down by men who had no connection to real life where you have to get down and dirty to earn enough to put food on the table,clothes on their family, and a roof over their head.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 10:18 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Most VA decisions on this or any disability matter takes less than a year...look for an advocate organization like AMVETS, VFW, DAV or the likes...they know the ins and outs of the system...you do not have to fight the war again by yourself. I am not a Wikipedia fan but they have a lot of information (that is correct) on their web site concerning Agent Orange...BTW the name Agent Orange came from the orange color of the barrels the chemical was shipped in...even thought they were also shipped in white, blue and green barrels.

    My own personal belief is that Monsanto and Dow purposely injected the most harmful and unnecessary chemical: 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzodioxin, an extremely toxic dioxin compound (how do you accidentally contaminate over 4 Million barrels with this chemical?).in order to get rid of it...

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 10:05 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1322

    The only people keeping this alive are conservatives. This is so 2 weeks ago.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 9:48 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    RON PORTAL, old tired ex-THUD Jockey here. The guys in the 52's were heroes in their own right. A lot of my friends didn't come home alive. Not a day goes by I don't think about them.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 7:32 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    In a rare moment of lucidity, Ms. Bobin posted:
    "This is an issue that should know no party lines. All veterans should be priorty #1.

    Every single member of the military, former and present, deserves our utmost gratitude.

    Clearly the best opinion she has ever posted.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:02 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403


    For Mr Lucas...Question... why is it that FDR type liberals seem to gravitate toward dictatorial principles and force everyone instead of giving choice. Why not give people the “CHOICE” to participate in social security? If you want it, take it, if you do not, you get nothing from the system later.


    Link

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 1:43 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    I'm sorry Mr.Maple...the comments I was responding to was to Mr.John Lucas..my apologies!

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 1:30 am on Sun, Mar 25, 2012.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Mr. Maple..let's look at your greatest president..FDR.He raised the top income tax rate to 79%-then to 90%.In 1933 he instituted the Nat'l Industrial Recovery Act forcing manufacturing industries into gov't-mandated cartels and empowering a massive federal bureaucracy to dictate production and pricing standards covering 2 million employers and 22 million workers. The Supreme Court ruled the act unconstitutional but the damage was done. Production dropped 25% in the 6 months following its passage. The Civil Works Admin. and the Works Progress Admin. was rife with waste and corruption. For every state-relief job created about half a private-sector job was lost. FDR oversaw hundreds of laws,regulations, policies,and spending programs and the creation of numerous agencies to enforce them by which he prolonged the economic despair of tens of millions of Americans by exacerbating the Great Depression. FDR's own treasure secretary, Harold Morgenthau,Jr. wrote" we have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work..We have never made good on our promises...I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started...and an enormous debt to boot". At no time during the eight years of the depression did the unemployment drop under 14%. Only WW2 brought us out of it. Harold Cole-a UCLA economist- wrote that if the gov't hadn't intervened into the free market system the depression would of ended in 1936 instead of 1943. The middle class expanded after the war,after FDR's death, in spite of what he'd done. Spurred on by the returning vets and the fact our economy was one of the few left in tact after the destruction of the war. Now let's look at Mr.Maple's worse president...Reagan. 1981 the economy is reeling from double-digit interest,unemployment,and inflation rates. The Kemp-Roth bill is passed cutting individual federal income brackets by 25% and leads to a substantial increase in capital formation. The results: Inflation drops from 13.5% in 1980 to 4.1% in 1988. Interest rates drop from 18% in 1981 to 8% in 1987. Unemployment drops from 10% in 1981 to 5.5% in 1989. Reagan's free market based economic plan spurred prosperity that created over the next 25 years 43 million jobs and $30 trillion in wealth. What's happened in the last 4 administrations is a retreat from Reagans free market principles back toward FDR's model of total gov't control.My grandfather-a contemporary of FDR- despised him and he was a lifelong democrat. I see him as a president who saw us just as a number who restrained the common man and would have us all enslaved to the all powerful state...I'll take Reagan any day!!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:19 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Heller: I think you might be right...but I don't think anger was involved...so DB might be right also.
    Pat, let me clarify... I still do not perceive that hate was in your heart. Quite the contrary... I think because you care and have compassion, you get irritated and respond to that you perceive is not good. I do not call that hate at all. I do not think your spirit and soul is filled with bitterness. I think it is filled with the right stuff where real hate cannot penetrate.
    I do believe Sam has a point about stress and how it can lead to some unwanted medical conditions. But I know people like you... you have love in your heart...not hate. The core of all your posts originates from what you perceive to be good and how others abuse goodness. Just like Mr Kinderman, never see the hate. See frustration and words reflecting that frustration... but not hate... just my opinion.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:09 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...Darrel, I notice you did not name a country that has a strong vibrant middle class that did not follow FDR's four main policies

    Why would I speculate about another country? America is my country and have a history of reality here. It would be an exercise in a meaningless topic. Think you are being silly again. All I could think of in reading your post is that you enjoy meaningless trivia and distractions to the topic at hand.
    As in your statistics, your assertions are faulty and your conclusions have no merit. FDR did nothing in my opinion except make our country less than it would have been. For example, had I been free to opt out of social security and invested that money how I thought it should have been, I would be very happy regardless of the result. I wanted that choice. Thanks to FDR and his admirers, I was forced to take the social benefit I never wanted. When I think of liberals like you, I think of snobbish people who think they know best how others should live their life and take great joy, happiness and pride in forcing it upon as many as possible.. what did you say in your earlier post... medicare for all.... another example of someone happy to force others to live a life that the liberal wants. Whats wrong with take medicare if you want it, and take Private Senior Advantage plans if you prefer something else?
    Question... why is it that FDR type liberals seem to gravitate toward dictatorial principles and force everyone instead of giving choice. Why not give people the “CHOICE” to participate in social security? If you want it, take it, if you do not, you get nothing from the system later.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:20 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    Great information, Mr. Maple. When he learned of the approval last fall, my husband applied on the VA "fast track" last October for ischemic heart disease. He was told in January by a VA claims rep that the "fast track" (which is touted as a 30 day decision making process) actually means 3 years. Good luck surviving the timeline.

    This is an issue that should know no party lines. All veterans should be priorty #1.

    Every single member of the military, former and present, deserves our utmost gratitude.

     
  • Sam Heller posted at 7:58 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Sam Heller Posts: 176

    Mr Maple, thank you for taking my comment as it was intended.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:51 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    msb: "Just look at D i ck Cheney...had a heart transplant today. Maybe they put a liberal one in...might improve his angry outlook on life."

    Ala...Bill Mahr and his ilk:

    You just keep proving it, and proving it and proving it...you are an idiot with no compassion, comprehension or couth. And you think it is funny.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:46 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Darrel, I notice you did not name a country that has a strong vibrant middle class that did not follow FDR's four main policies. The reason is very simple for that Conservative paradise has never,not now and will never exist. The economic fruit of Conservatism is and always will be decay and destruction. That is the fruit of selfishness and greed is foul.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:44 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Heller: I think you might be right...but I don't think anger was involved...so DB might be right also. Maybe frustration...maybe a lapse in composure...maybe. But thanks...sometimes we forget to monitor or selves. My problem was not caused by anything but the uncontrolable problems and exacerbated by stress. Thanks for the good advice and for caring enough to note it...I do monitor it...thanks for not always agreeing...that would make for a very dull world. Thanks Darrell.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:36 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Ron Portal stated ... we are kindred spirits

    I get that feeling as well.. I prefer a dark french roast ron, black, no cream (smile)

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:36 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Anyone who would like help with the affects of Agent Orange or information about it:

    Order-of-the-Silver-Rose-Home-Page

    www.vva678.net/Order-of-the-Silver-Rose-Home-Page.html

    I am the National Director for the Order of the Silver Rose We also help Veterans or the families of Veterans who are sick or deceased due to Agent ..

    OR: Order of the Silver Rose Endorsement

    www.vietnamproject.ttu.edu/inmemory/vietwarmem/silrose.htm


    http://silverrose.org. Welcome Home;. I just finished visiting your site ... Visit The Order of the Silver Rose website · Return to Vietnam War In Memory Memorial, ...

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:31 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    msb: "Mr. Maple missed one - the VA has, since 2010, recognized exposure to Agent Orange as a cause of ischemic heart disease. I am very well aware of Agent Orange:

    Rainbow Herbicides".[1] A 50:50 mixture of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D, was manufactured for the U.S. Department of Defense primarily by Monsanto Corporation and Dow Chemical. The 2,4,5-T used to produce Agent Orange was later discovered to be contaminated with 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzodioxin, an extremely toxic dioxin compound. Vietnam estimates 400,000 people were killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects.

    Studies showed that veterans who served in the South during the war have increased rates of cancer, and nerve, digestive, skin and respiratory disorders. Veterans from the south had higher rates of throat cancer, acute/chronic leukemia, Hodgkin's lymphoma and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, prostate cancer, lung cancer, colon cancer, soft tissue sarcoma and liver cancer. Other than liver cancer, these are the same conditions the US Veteran's Administration has found to be associated with exposure to Agent Orange/dioxin, and are on the list of conditions eligible for compensation and treatment.

    I am also VERY familiar with its damage to the human body...I watched my brother die in 2005...three years after being diagnosed with it...I have watched and visited with 100's of other friends and verterans die from it as well...So...Don't be so asinnie flippant about it...you only prove what an idiot you are.

    The Gov settled with Dow and a few others for $180 Million...to be divided among the victims...some five years later they decided to pay each totally disabled veteran $12,000 dollars spread out over 10 years. CARP!!! They refused to recognize veterans who were partially disabled (could not have children, kidney problems...)
    There have been BILLIONS of dollars spent and TRILLIONS of words written about and on Agent Orange...

    The ONLY words I remember on the subject came from my brother...I just wanted to have one kid...just one...then he died.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:29 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Robert Chapman said:I would have personally financed Ms. Bobin's parents birth control before she was born.

    Then Mr Lucas stated...Wishing someone was not born and were willing to pay for it
    1 2 3 Real classy!!!. By the way I reported this comment. It is totally out of line.

    I think Mr Lucas is out of line in reporting this comment... it is very tame compared to the many comments Ms Bobin makes...
    In addition, I personally thought it was outrageous and over the top for Mr Lucas to state...It is not often the ugly soul of Conservatism is put up for all to look at.

    To talk about the heart of all conservatives in such an unfair ugly way is far worse and Mr Chapman's comments... not even close... yet, I did not report Mr Lucas... Instead, I played his game and reversed the accusation to make a point...evidently, Mr Lucas can dish it out but is very sensitive and tender when it comes to making a political point that Mr Chapman was making.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:17 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...In 1932 we elected FDR who in my opinion was our greatest President.

    In my view, FDR was one of the worst presidents in the history of our country. His decision to sign the Social Security Act on August 14, 1935 changed America to head in a direction where Americans are dependent on government and less freedoms to select a life we desire. I wish Americans had the ability to opt out of forced social programs. Why shouldn't people have the choice to say... I do not want social security and be dependent on the government for money when I retire. If people want to select social security, that should be their decision.. However, extreme liberals, that are actually more hard core radicals like Mr Lucas, think they know better. They relish forcing people to participate in programs like FDR's social security even if the prefer not to.
    To think FDR had much to do with making our middle class what it became is child like thinking. To think any one man, any one president had that much influence and held directly responsible for success is definitely an illusion that Mr Lucas sincerely believes .In my view, it discredits any point he makes.

    The left wants to eliminate choice and transform our country into a society that government rules with an inflexible hand and iron fist control. Universal health care, social security, unions, millions and mandates and regulations that manipulate and control social behavior from one central federal government... Obamacare was a big piece to that puzzle that unless the supreme court overturns this monstrosity, we have problems.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:49 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Sam Stated...( re: Pat)You having a heart attack is not going to change things. Lose the hate

    Pat... please comment on this. I do not see hate coming from you in any way. From your perspective, is Sam accurate or what is your perception as to how he and others like him draw conclusions like that. His comment appears sincere and heartfelt, but I personally do not see or get it. Its like they live in an alternate universe.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:39 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Heidi Yurong posted at 10:42 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012...Maybe we shouldn't pay for gastric bypass surgery. Smoking, another lifestyle choice, contributes to emphysema, heart disease, lung, bladder and oral cancers. Should we not treat those conditions?

    Heidi brings up an excellent topic and concern... There are many conditions and risks a health plan covers where with a different life style the conditions might be avoided. It's obvious that if you drink and smoke heavily, that certain medical conditions are more likely to occur because of the behavior.
    Unfortunately, group insurance health plans are prohibited from declining coverage and cannot charge extra premium for the extra risk. Instead, healthy people who stay fit and do not drink or smoke end up paying for others in increased care by paying the same premium as the non healthy individuals.

    So how should this be handled. Is it fair for a person who watches their diet, exercises regularly, does not engage in any health related risks to pay the same premium as their polar opposites who abuse their body and increase health problems. That's the current law that we all live by... why is that?

    If we took that same principle, a good way to control costs is to make the various provions in the health contract coverage optional instead of mandatory. If someone wants to drink and smoke, no problem, but the premiums should be increased to compensate for the risk.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:56 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Sorry, Mr Chapman, I meant my last post and question for Mr Portal. Having a senior moment.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 5:35 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    Just look at D i ck Cheney...had a heart transplant today. Maybe they put a liberal one in...might improve his angry outlook on life.

    Mr. Maple missed one - the VA has, since 2010, recognized exposure to Agent Orange as a cause of ischemic heart disease.

     
  • Sam Heller posted at 5:18 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Sam Heller Posts: 176

    Mr. Maple. I may not agree with all your posts but I do read a lot of them and appreciate your presence here on the blogs. That being said may I suggest you learn to relax. Your last post wreaks of anger and hate. You are not that old (you are younger than I am) and adding more fruits and vegetables to your diet WITH LESS ANIMAL products and less alcohol will improve your heart problems drastically. Also maybe some yoga or meditation. I am not trying to sound sarcastic.

    We have a president that you do not agree with. Relax. We always do not get what we want. You having a heart attack is not going to change things. Lose the hate.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:03 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Mr Chapman I have just one question for you. It is a question I have asked many so-called Conservative over a period of years not one has came up with an answer. the question is at the end of the of a small preamble.

    From 1870 to 1932 our country was run y the principles you and other so-called Conservatives espouse. We never had a substantial middle class. We averaged a financial meltdown every 10 years. For most life was short and brutal. In 1932 we elected FDR who in my opinion was our greatest President. You could call me a FDR Liberal. Over time he he instituted four main policies.
    !. A highly progressive income tax
    2. Real financial regulation of the banks and Wall St.
    3. Labor laws evening the playing field between employer and employee.
    4. Keynesian economics.
    He changed our country and the world. We grew the greatest middle class in the world and after World War II Those countries that adopted those four policies did the same. This includes most of Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand , Japan etc. For over fifty years there no major economic meltdowns that were so prevalent under so-called Conservative leadership.
    Then came a man who, in my opinion, was the worst President we ever had, Ronald Reagan. Most people give George Bush that honor but the near collapse of the financial system and worst recession since 1932 in 2008 had its roots in the spiritual values that Mr Reagan illuminated. He taught that we should feel good about our prejudices and that selfishness and greed are virtues and not the biblical vices that they most certainly are. What we are experiencing economically in our country is just the fruit of his thinking.
    My question is really just a simple one. Name a country in history that has or had a large middle class that did not follow FDR’s four policies. There never has been one and never will be one. The bible said it best. Ye shall know them by their fruits.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:30 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Ms Yurong: (is that a play on words...you wrong?) Cardiovascular diseases cost the Nation more than $300 billion each year.

    Let us look at this statement and problem:

    There are several risk factors for heart disease; some are controllable, others are not. Uncontrollable risk factors include:
    Male sex...Older age...Family history of heart disease...Post-menopausal
    Race (African Americans, American Indians, and Mexican Americans are more likely to have heart disease than Caucasians) I have four of those

    Still, there are many heart disease risk factors that can be controlled. By making changes in your lifestyle, you can actually reduce your risk for heart disease. Controllable risk factors include:
    Smoking....Nope not me
    High LDL, or "bad" cholesterol and low HDL, or "good" cholesterol...Nope not me
    Uncontrolled hypertension (high blood pressure)...Nope not me
    Physical inactivity...Nope not me
    Obesity (more than 20% over one's ideal body weight)...Close no potatoe
    Uncontrolled diabetes...Nope
    High C-reactive protein....Nope
    Uncontrolled stress and anger...Yes to stress (from business)...anger (at the gov)

    I had a five-way bypass...because of stress (according to my doctor)...I worked and paid for my insurance...I paid my deductible...I suffered the consequences...I paid the price...I I I I I...me me me me...NOT you you you you. Get informed before you make comments. Thank you...

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 4:09 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Mr. Chapman...thank you for your comment. Without the Air Force we would of been slaughtered on the ground. B-52's cleared the way for my battalion several times in our pursuit of the enemy. Thank God for the Air Force!! And,of course,our own air wing was instrumental in our survival also. Thank you for your service and a life lived well for those we left behind.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:08 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Fluke, Fluck, Fienstein and Fluggle were a flop. Mr Portal is correct about the trumped up problems of her "friends"...why do you need a "friend" to speak for if she in fact were going to be subject to possibly the same problems physically. Her argument has to be based on birth control...otherwise exclude yourself of the problem??

    "Why should she subsidize treatment of men with prostate cancer as she never gets the disease." Sorry...viagra is also used by women for some problems: Viagra can aid women on SSRIs. I know of no birth control pill that works on prostate cancer... which BTW occurs in men mostly late in life and is often not detected or treated until it is too late.

    Secondly...REMEMBER she said she had to work all summer to pay for it? I work all year to pay for mine.

    Lastly... you said: "The second is the that the treatment of Ms Fluke was equal to that of Mrs Palin, Mrs Bachman and Ms Heaton. As a Liberal it makes me happy to see Conservatives take positions that will lose them votes in the coming elections." NO the comments made to the "lawyer" were no where as viscious as those made these women (and MANY other connservative women like Laura Ingrahm). WHERE in your letter did you address the comments made to and about these women??? And WHY did you not mention the vile and desjpicable comments made to and about these same women's CHILDREN??? BY your liberal buddies in the media...were it said about ANY child of ANY woman in front of me...there would have been some A S S kicking going on. Not a threat just a fact.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 3:19 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Mr. Portal. From one VN vet (USAF) to another thank you for your service. The left use the well known "Rules for Radicals", insult, belittle, ridicule and attack. It is all they have to offer. Consider the source and keep the faith.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 1:22 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    To Darrell Baumbach I'd like to say thank you for your kind words of support. I don't know you personally but I wouldn't mind meeting you one day and have coffee..we are kindred spirits..which will no doubt cause liberals to comment on derisively ad nauseam. The folks who have disagreed with me proves my point of this being a distraction and is a tactic of the left..when your party is failing keep the people's minds off the reality of failure by causing false crisis elsewhere. As for the accusation that I am anti-woman...if you knew my history you would know that is a false assumption. I was raised by my mom,a woman,without benefit of a father until I was a teenager when she remarried. I have 3 younger sisters which I helped raise and protect. We love each other dearly.My mom was fiercely independent.She would not ask for nor accept any help in the raising of her children.Until her remarriage she worked at least two jobs to feed,clothe,and house her kids. She considered any offer of help as an insult to her integrity and pride.She survived the great depression by grit and determination and she wasn't about to throw it all away to be dependent on anyone or any gov't. This wasn't an uncommon characteristic..but common.Nowadays she would be in the minority where seemingly everybody wants to be taken care of by others.She passed this characteristic down to her children.Too bad other mothers have failed in this respect.Yes, Heidi, I do take medications,or rather a medication,for high blood pressure.I pay for it myself through insurance I purchase.As for receiving healthcare...in my lifetime I have had my ankles shattered,both legs broke,hips broken,my right hand broke twice,my left shoulder is artificial caused by an injury during a firefight in Viet Nam,my jaw has been fractured,my left ear has been sewed back on,I have numerous scars on my scalp,arms and legs from different incidents[some in fights,some work related]..so yes,Heidi,I have received healthcare..ALL OF WHICH I HAVE PAID FOR MYSELF.As for anti-woman. When my wife was unable to adapt to any contraceptive and condoms didn't work[my daughter Carrie was conceived with a condom on] and the doctor told us if she got pregnant within the following 5 years she or the child or both could loose their life..I had a vasectomy to take that danger away from my wife and paid for it MYSELF. I was also a street minister for over 10 years that was specifically aimed toward prostitutes with kids.I ended up raising 3 young girls from prostitutes who are all living decent lives now.I also have two daughters of my own with 6 grandkids who I simply adore.Through a lifetime of almost 65 years I have learned that when you give gov't any kind of responsibility over you..you lose personal freedoms over your life decisions and become dependent on a soul-less gov't agency who is concerned only with numbers..not you. And dependency equals compliance which equals slavery to the state.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 1:13 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    "There are many health care plans provided by federal, state and local governments that cover Viagra."
    Want to substantiate that claim Mr.Lucas? If you can.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 1:05 pm on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Ha, ha, oh brother. Report away Mr. Lucas. By the way, did you also report Ms. Bobin's bigoted comment about funding Mr. Docktor's sex change? Lemme think here, Viagra and birth control. Oh yeah, one is for having sex without risk of pregnancy, the other is enabling men with MEDICAL dysfunctions in order to engage in sex at all. Yep, I was right, the comparison is ignorant.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:02 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Robert Chapman said:

    I would have personally financed Ms. Bobin's parents birth control before she was born.

    Wishing someone was not born and were willing to pay for it
    1 2 3 Real classy!!!. By the way I reported this comment. It is totally out of line.

    Robert Chapman said:
    
There is NO TAX PAYER funded insurance that covers Viagra.

    There are many health care plans provided by federal, state and local governments that cover Viagra.

    Robert Chapman said:

    To compare the use of birth control to the use of Viagra shows total ignorance.

    Just because you cannot see the connection does not mean that it does not exist. Birth control is used almost exclusively by women. Viagra is exclusively used by men. To have one not covered is what the complaint is about. You may not see the connection but let me assure you women most assuredly do.

     
  • Heidi Yurong posted at 10:42 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    hyurong Posts: 1

    Gosh, I wonder if Mr. Portal takes any prescription medications or has received any healthcare? Most of the health care dollars in our country goes to treat preventable conditions including obesity (isn't gluttony one of the seven deadly sins if we want to bring "morality" into the equation?) and its related diabetes, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol. Maybe we shouldn't pay for gastric bypass surgery. Smoking, another lifestyle choice, contributes to emphysema, heart disease, lung, bladder and oral cancers. Should we not treat those conditions?

    According to the U.S. Health and Human Services statistics from 2003, 129 million U.S. adults are overweight or obese which costs this Nation anywhere from $69 billion to $117 billion per year. In 2000, an estimated 17 million people (6.2 percent of the population) had diabetes, costing the U.S. approximately $132 billion. People with diabetes lost more than 8 days per year from work, accounting for 14 million disability days.

    Heart disease and stroke are the first and third leading causes of death in the United States. In 2003 alone, 1.1 million Americans will have a heart attack. Cardiovascular diseases cost the Nation more than $300 billion each year.

    Most of these diseases are preventable. (Sorry, but you can't blame it all on genetics).

    Picking and choosing what healthcare we decide as a society to pay for is a slippery slope. I'm not sure if Mr. Portal wants to be on that slope.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:17 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    I would gladly contribute my tax dollars for Mr. Docktor's sex change operation. A change in perspective might do him some good.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:45 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2813

    Great letter Ron.

    It's absurd the government should use tax dollars to pay for sex change operations. One of the things Ms. Fluke advocates..

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:53 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...It is not often the ugly soul of Conservatism is put up for all to look at...
    That I can agree with... since its soul is not ugly, what does not exist cannot reveal itself...The ugly soul of Liberalism however is real and is there for all to look at frequently. All one has to do is look at Mr Lucas and those of his ilk to get a clear view.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:17 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...Conservatives seem to think women use birth control for their own pleasure...

    Really? Please clarify Mr Lucas... Are you saying 10%... 30%... 70%... 100%

    Most conservatives and liberals I know would disagree with you. Where did you get this idea from... did you conduct a survey with 50,000 or so conservatives or was your conclusion based on feelings...or maybe are you taking a few isolated cases and branding all conservatives in the same light? What ever it is, you are misinformed in my opinion.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:07 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...As a Liberal it makes me happy to see Conservatives take positions that will lose them votes in the coming elections.

    Of course and thank you for so kindly demonstrating what it means to be a liberal... the liberals are overjoyed and happy to buy votes. The more responsibilities that the liberals can shift from the individual to another entity (government, insurance companies, etc...) and force these entities to pay for these expenses instead of the individual, the more votes they get.
    The conservatives have a philosophy individuals taking responsibility for their own actions. Liberals often see issues in which they can buy votes regardless of the principles...thus ...Mr Lucas is very pleased and understands it is an advantage to have no scruples and take advantage of peoples greed in order to buy votes.
    I have sometimes thought it would be successful to fight fire with fire and adapt the liberal thinking process and buy votes as they do... beat them at their own game... for example... lets make the liberals the bad guy... lets propose raising the minimum wage to 20 dollars per hour... the hard hearted liberals only want 8 per hour... Liberals want to pay for birth control... lets up it. Conservatives should propose to pay for that plus if the birth control fails, pay 100% of the doctors bills for the entire pregnancy.

    What ever liberals propose, the conservatives offer more money to buy more votes... However, to do all that, conservatives would have to lower themselves to the disgrace that liberals are.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:47 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...Your letter really raises two issues...

    Mr Lucas begins his post in talking about honesty then immediately follows with a falsehood in stating that this letter is about two issues...and completely ignores an important point that Mr Portal made about the liberal media , Obama, the democratic party that are engaging in phoney distractions. Ron stated that Sandra Fluke story is the phoney distraction... So what did Mr Lucas focus on... why of course the phoney distraction... with a phoney fallacious argument... nice try Mr Lucas but your lengthy rant was disingenuous, insincere and down right part of the distraction the letter was all about.
    Have you ever considered a job as a writer for the Stewart Show... your style of comedy would most likely be well received by that organization ( as well as entertaining for the Bobin crowd)

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:02 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Ron, I would be less than honest if I did say I like seeing letters such as yours. Your letter really raises two issues. The first is whether or not birth control should be part of health insurance policies. The second is the that the treatment of Ms Fluke was equal to that of Mrs Palin, Mrs Bachman and Ms Heaton.As a Liberal it makes me happy to see Conservatives take positions that will lose them votes in the coming elections. It seems to me that you are doing everything in your power to make women vote Democratic and I thank you for that.
    When one pays for health insurance you are put in a pool that includes both men and women.Try to look at it from a women’s viewpoint. Conservatives seem to think women use birth control for their own pleasure. The fact is that it takes two to tango. Birth control medicine is used to prevent unwanted pregnancies. It is in the interest of both partners but Conservatives want to put the cost burden solely on the woman even when she pays to be in a health insurance pool with both sexes. By your logic a woman might ask why should she subsidize a man’s use of Viagra which is covered by by the same health insurance companies that refuse to supply birth control medicine for her? Why should she subsidize treatment of men with prostate cancer as she never gets the disease. This is not even taking into consideration of women who are denied birth control medicine that is needed for other conditions that Ms Fluke noted in her testimony.
    There is no comparison between the treatment of Ms Fluke and the other women you mentioned. The closest would be when Ed Shultz called Laura Ingraham a sl.t on his show. Here is what he did:

    In his apology, Schultz said: “It doesn’t matter what the circumstances were. It doesn’t matter that I was on radio and I was ad-libbing. None of that matters. What matters is what I said was terribly vile and not of the standards that I or any other person should adhere to. ... I want all of you to know tonight that I did call Laura Ingraham today and did not make contact with her, and I will apologize to her as I did in the message that I left for her today.”
    Schultz said he offered to take himself off MSNBC “for an indefinite period of time with no pay.”

    He was off the air for a week. He did that after calling Ms Ingraham a vile name one time. Rush Limbaugh attacked Ms fluke for three solid days. He called her a sl.t and prostitute and said she should put sex tapes on the air that he could peruse. His apology consist of saying he should not have said the two words. Nothing about the sex tapes or the vile, viscous and mean spirited things he said. Nothing even Michael Savage or Howard Stern even comes close and this was the de facto head of the Republican Party and the biggest Conservative icon in the country. The anger caused by his misogynistic viciousness crossed all party lines especially among women.
    So Ron please keep fanning the flames of this incident. All Democrats will thank you. It is not often the ugly soul of Conservatism is put up for all to look at.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:11 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Portal again hits the nail on the head of reality.I could not change one word he wrote to make what he said more accurate. Of course there are many words that could be changed if one wanted to swim in the liberal fantasy world... but if an objective independent observer read this letter, they would be appreciative and impressed with the content.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 12:26 am on Sat, Mar 24, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Oy vey.

     

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