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Jane Fonda should not be portraying Nancy Reagan

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Posted: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 12:00 am

She just couldn't leave well enough alone! Jane Fonda was, and is, a traitor to this country and the young men who served her and are serving her.

"Get a life," is what she said to those who are boycotting her new movie "The Butler." What I say is give a life, Jane — you have shown little contrition and no compassion for the veterans of this country. It is time that you paid back the veterans and their families. I say you should write a letter to each and every soldier killed and wounded in Vietnam, telling them how sorry you are for their losses and that you were in the wrong for doing what you did.

The second asinine and telling statement she made was, "If it creates hoopla, it will cause more people to see the movie. I figured it would tweak the right. Who cares?" Well, Janie, I care. My brothers both served in Vietnam after you were there; one died from Agent Orange and the other from a heart disease he contracted there. They no longer have a life, and their children suffer to this day. I no longer have brothers — do you?

"The controversy will trigger more publicity, and generally in Hollywood any publicity is better than no publicity," crisis communications expert Glenn Selig anticipated.

My guess is Harvey Weinstein is thrilled that there is so much attention being paid to the movie. So again, for the Hollywoodies it is about money — not honor, not thankfulness, not pride, not respect, not tribute — not anything other than money! Shame on you and anyone involved in this movie.

Boycott is not enough — protest is, name-calling is, Occupy Hollywood is. Go back to Vietnam where you belong. Go back to Ted Turner while you are at it.

Pat Maple

Galt

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141 comments:

  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:29 am on Sun, Apr 28, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Well said...lets worry about the new generations of Brothers instead!

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 7:56 am on Sun, Apr 28, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1844

    "only idiots would spend a beautiful spring day...
    In front of the computer..."
    Pretty much explains why you are here, eh Wally.....

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:18 am on Sun, Apr 28, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Do not even worry about it, Pat. Looks like I was wrong about you too. Sorry about the embarrassment to veterans remark. I have been so very lucky in my life. The reason is that the universe has sent people to me when I needed them and because of what they taught me(some would say drilled into my brain :) ) I have been able to be there for others. Because of those people I am doing very well and am a very happy camper. So in the spirit of Rule #1 which is HAVE FUN lets return to arguing about politics and Religion which ranks right after being on a hot streak at a craps table as the most fun one can have with your clothes on.

    As to the Jane Fonda thing my brother, who was also a Vietnam vet, felt the same way you do about her maybe even worse. We used to go round and round about it. The thing we agreed on was that in speaks to the greatness of our country that she was allowed to do so. When people in countries that a fraction of her behavior would get you tortured and killed saw this they came away with an appreciation of what real freedom is. I strongly feel that when you and I took that step forward after taking an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States that this was what it was all about. It was what we were willing to give our lives for.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:41 am on Sun, Apr 28, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    John Lucas...My apologies. I had forgotten what many veterans had to struggle, and do struggle with, the war in many different ways and had to deal with it as best they could. I remember my brother Kelly and his hallucinations..thinking it was drugs...until I watched him go through too many of them and realized it was something more. He was in the late stages of Agent Orange. They were scary for him and my family because the syndrome hadn't been "discovered" yet nor talked about. Back then the VA was not good at treatments nor were doctors period. My brother lived with us for three years...he died a horrible death...I don't want anyone else to be left wondering why it seems as though no one else cares about them. It is not about VN. I choose to help. I choose you.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:34 pm on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I guess she would be arrested in the name of freedom.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:33 pm on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Robert, why do you think that you do not witnessed those things? Perhaps it is because you epitomize what I was talking about.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:30 pm on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Robert, projection is such a wonderful thing to observe.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 7:44 pm on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    "eerie silence"

    Colonel, only idiots would spend a beautiful spring day...

    In front of the computer...

    Going on and on...

    About what Hanoi Jane did 40 years ago!!!

    [lol]

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 6:26 pm on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Mr. Maple, the world is full of people filled with hate. Everything "bad" in their life is always someone elses fault. Must suck to go through life like that. Oh well, better them than me.... Already too dang hot in Palm Desert. Back home for a month then offto Alaska again, Woo Hoo!!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:53 pm on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Makes you feel kind of special doesn't it.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:52 pm on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Bob: I am sure that you also notice the retreat when they can't answer any questions without a lie or accusation. I will give credit to Lucas for his answers in this case. What I don't like is that they demean others to make their points in order to have something to say back. I will say too that I am so happy to be compared to organizations like the American Legion, VFW, Amvets, DAV and others that I am just GIDDY!!! mscdwp is so full of hate for everything and everyone it is pathetic. Oooh Raah Brother!

    BTW according to the NYTimes: At any given time in the past decade, less than 1 percent of the American population has been on active military duty, compared with 9 percent of Americans who were in uniform in World War II.

    In 2004: Active Military - 5 million
    - http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/dod101

    Veterans - 23.5 million
    - http://www1.va.gov/vetdata/docs

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 4:24 pm on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Mr. Maple, notice the eerie silence from our liberal friends about Hanoi Jane's
    pro-communist activities? She should have been arrested for sedition at the very least.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 4:11 pm on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    "The father of a friend of one of my kids was the president of the Lodi chapter of the American Legion a few years ago."
    Proof positive the American Legion is rotten to the core. My friend's uncle's next door neighbor sons drinking buddy will back that up.
    I have belonged to the American Legion and VFW or years. I have visited American Legion chapters thoughout America. NEVER, have I witnessed anything close to the ugly allegations made by the posters in this forum. I hear there are those who even HATE Disneyland..

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:10 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    That is their trademark. They can never be wrong much less apologize. That is why they never grow. Being able to deal honestly with being wrong is the fertilizer for intellectual and spiritual growth. Apologizing is an expression of the willingness to grow.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:47 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "The VFW and the American Legion always have some super patriot like you in charge. Like you, they are an embarrassment to veterans everywhere."

    Spot-on, Mr. Lucas.

    The father of a friend of one of my kids was the president of the Lodi chapter of the American Legion a few years ago. He is also a COL employee and a real blowhard.

    All he did was brag about his military service (which was safely between wars and he had a cush assignment on US soil the whole time).

    He took every chance to belittle anyone about either not joining the military or, if they were older, not having military service. He constantly made out like he was some kind of hero.

    One day he actually had the nerve to say something to my kid about my husband being an immigrant and how immigrants suck up tax payer dollars.

    When told that he had voluntarily joined the Army and served two tours in Vietnam before he even became a citizen, the j erk just mumbled to himself and walked away.

    Not even an apology.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:35 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Maple: AmVets does absolutely NOTHING.

    I called the woman whose name you gave me and she had been transferred to another position.

    I called the man who took her place FIVE TIMES and he never called back.

    AMVETS is NO help whatsoever.

    Found excellent help through Jerry McNerny's office.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 10:11 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    ....and thank you jb for some filler that you've unwittingly supplied which I shall use. you stated" at least his hallucinations are entertaining". That in itself is positive feedback. However, Everything I have previously stated is true, unlike yourself who has a notorious reputation for confusing fact with fiction and assumes everyone who disagrees with you suffers the same disability.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 9:49 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    Thank you, Mr.Maple for the input and info,and for all you stand for.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 9:31 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Mr. Maple, Jane Fonda loved her country so much she sided with the communist regime we were fighting in VN attempting to halt the spread of communism. Then went around America telling everyone that would listen that she hoped and prayed America would bercome a communist country. Yessiree, a real patriot. Those who approve of her agenda are probably hoping America will espouse communism. Obama is doing everything he can to do see that her prayers are answered.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:10 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    That is baloney. If she was all about money she would have not done what she did. Love of country is not defined by ones politics. It is easy to be patriotic when one agrees with the policies that come out of Washington. I liked Barry Goldwater and very much respected him as a man. I thought his politics were crazy. He was no less a patriot for it. Jane Fonda thought the policies at the time were crazy. She loved her country and was no less a patriot than Barry Goldwater.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:24 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    It has already been taken care of. I am 100%

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:57 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Bob: she is about money and the spotlight and herself...

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:55 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    John: get an advocate...they know the system...call AmVets at Mather. 916-364-6793. Roger or Susie...they do help with services and benefits. Mather is a good hospital. There is a process and they will help.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:50 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Okay John Lucas I choose you.
    Because you are exactly who I am standing up for...you are alive...my brothers are dead for the same reasons. NOONE paid attention or didn't care about the veterans...most families like mine lived with it. NOONE spoke up. Because we did not know what to say or do...remember your suffering was lived through by many others.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:07 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Really?
    Let me tell you a little story. From 1969 to 1976 I was hospitalized 8 times. I was put on a court commitment to the VA hospital in Ft Lyons , Co, where they throw people away and load you up with all kinds of drugs to keep you under control. I have had the pleasure of being locked up and beaten. I was told by one nurse when having uncontrollable muscle spasms due to the medication that it was due to my “guilt feelings”. The shrink was called out of the office and I snuck a look at my medical record on the desk and my diagnosis was an anxiety neurosis which I felt very shameful about. This was before PTSD was even talked about. In 1976 a social worker told me that I was obviously bright and I should go back to school. At the time I would only sleep after two or three days and get to the point of exhaustion or self medicate with alcohol to the point of oblivion. I knew school was out of the question. I also knew the VA did not know what they were doing and vowed never to go back.
    That is why I went into long haul trucking. I would drive myself into exhaustion. In the next twenty years I alternated between trucking and playing high stakes rubber bridge in the city. While trucking I would not drink and in the city after the card games I would drink myself into oblivion. In 1995 I managed to quit drinking at all and got a good trucking job in Oakland where I was pretty much home every night. My psychologist sister nagged me into getting into therapy which I paid for myself. In a very short time the therapist said I had PTSD which I had never even heard of and should put in for benefits from the VA. At first I refused but my sister wore me down. I applied and this VFW representative asked me if I was working and how much I made. I said yes and about a grand a week. He said it would take about a year and that I would have to appeal. They got my records, I did an interview, they starting sending me 30% checks three months later. If you know anything about the system you will now that is unheard of. My therapist asked me if I wanted to appeal for more but I said no.

    Fast forward to 2003 and the Iraq war. I knew it was going to be a disaster. Ron Portal and I probably disagree on whether or not we should have gone but I would bet he would agree that thinking a 130,000 soldiers are enough to pacify a country of 24 million is just stupid. I knew because of my experience what a disaster this would be. My PTSD symptoms exploded because I knew what was going to happen to the individuals who have to do the dirty work from my own experience.
    I was lucky enough to spend a year in a Swords to Plowshares facility on Treasure Island. Swords to Plowshares is an organization started by Vietnam veterans and this facility works closely with the VA hospital at Fort Miley. Between the program at Treasure Island, the great team of professionals at Ft Miley and talking to my fellow veterans who share my experience my symptoms are very much under control. I will be forever grateful to those people.
    I will never understand what I ever did to deserve all the fun I have had in my life and I have had plenty. The above is just part of the story. The good Lord cannot screw me because I have already gotten so much and as long as I am here I plan to continue to have fun. Part of that sense of gratitude comes from looking at the names of those on the honor roll of the company I served in Vietnam. I knew all but one. This does not include all the wounded, the two that committed suicide or those like me who got hit by friendly fire.
    None of them were Infantrymen but if you do not think that being an infantryman was not special think about this. I knew guys who hated the Army but reenlisted for 6 years to get out of the bush to become door gunners. There is a big difference between sleeping in a bunker and sleeping on the ground out in the middle of nowhere. One of the problems is that you keep lecturing me on things you have heard about and I have experienced first hand. You talk the talk and I walked the walk.
    I repeat:

    You want to do something for the American Veteran? Shut up.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 5:35 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Here is a little known fact about Hanoi Jane that makes me dislike her even more than I did after her stunt in 'Viet Nam.
    On November 21, 1970 she told a University of Michigan audience of some two thousand students, "If you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would some day become communist." At Duke University in North Carolina she repeated what she had said in Michigan, adding "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism. " Washington Times July 7, 2000

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:56 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Brothers are chosen...you just did it in your last rant...I will tell my brothers. my mother and my father what you profess the next time I visit their graves. Stupid people say stupid things...you beat them all...read your post exclusionary Bob! (the VFW, American Legion and all others!) you remind me of the morons who thought only infantrymen were in combat...medics, mechanics, pilots, cannon cockers clerks and boatmen died there and here. YOU get off YOUR high horse and get checked for PTSD! Kennel Ration commercial man.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:02 am on Sat, Apr 27, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat, you are really a piece of work. You said:

    I honor all who served but a Brother is chosen.

    Brothers are not chosen. Brothers are born into the same family. They may disagree on everything but they have a shared experience. Ron Portal and I disagree on just about everything politically but we are brothers in the sense of the shared experience of being Vietnam Veterans. There are subsets to that brotherhood. Ron was a Marine rifleman. My sisters brother in law, George Neely was an infantryman with 173rd light infantry brigade. I would never have the effrontery to speak to their experiences as I am not a member of their brotherhoods. I did not share their experience.

    You remind me of George Bush when John Kerry called him on his Air Guard service in a debate. Just like you Bush got on his high horse comparing his service to those who served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was so angry I wanted to take him out to the woodshed. He was saying he shared their experience.

    The only veterans group I belong to is the Vietnam Veterans of America. The VFW and the American Legion always have some super patriot like you in charge. Like you, they are an embarrassment to veterans everywhere.

    You want to do something for the American Veteran? Shut up.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 8:06 pm on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Ron: when were you in? What I have found over the years in working with vets is that most of them kind of went "underground" with their horrors and never talked about their fears or problems..until people like myself started advocating for them and speaking up for them through Orgs like the Order of the Silver Rose. PTSD haunts many of them to this day as well. IT IS A SHAME AND BLACK EYE ON AMERICANS as to how so many young men went to their graves thinking they were heroes and have gone to their graves since...wondering about why they were treated so poorly. Just look at how soldiers are treated today and how they were treated in the. 70s. Just now some are speaking up...I stand up for them and encourage them to foster pride in their's and their Brother Soldiers tours of duty. I honor all who served but a Brother is chosen.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:48 pm on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Joe B: I still have to honor his service...I just choose not to accept him as a Brother Soldier. Did you serve? Where and when? Not that it really matters. Thanks in advance.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:43 pm on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Maurer : I have no reason to doubt you I have met people in many venues whom I came to respect and am proud to say they are a friend. In the world of music people tend to gravitate to their niche. Jealousy seems always to come from those whom have done little in their lives only to wake up at the end and cry.

    That bone would have been an ebony hollow. I played the piano.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:50 pm on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Wally: Sexist detriments to you. My hair is gray. I can't wear my uniform any more...I don't believe in Unions...I believe in people and think I treat them better...I don't suck off the teat of the government...as some here do. I don't carry signs...unless I want to...and as for people like you...in order for you to make the statement, you must have already acted in such a circus.

    Your comments are demeaning not to me...I can defend myself...but to those who cannot and those who still feel the pain of their losses...cowards make such comments and derogatory statements...are you a coward? An apology will do.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 1:40 pm on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1844

    Pat, Lucas is all knotted up because he didn't enlist in the reserve or flee to Canada before he got drafted.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 12:06 pm on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    Patrick: the guitar was solid bodied, heavy, black, and electric. jb; asked BB if he named his guitar after a loved one and why he he called it "Lucille". His reply and I quote," Because that's what it is."I have met many stars who have added some of my materials to their own. A groupee? [lol][lol] Never have I been backstage. It all depends what kind of person you are. Word gets around. I can guarantee that.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 11:18 am on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    Patrick; It was an ebony black Lucille which I played. It was one of BB;s personal guitars that he occasionally used at his concerts. The year was1993 and I never knew the specifics of that particular except that it was a full size elactric.He also had a beat up black accoustic which I played that he claimed was one of his favorites

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:55 am on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    So Patty, it would be hard for me to attend an event…

    Where a bunch of bearded white haired vets…

    Complete with old uniforms, vest and hats covered in emblems, buttons and flag pins…

    Waving placards, protest signs while yelling angry sentiments...

    But I imagine that YOU would have no problem crossing a UNION picket line!!

    Huh??????

    [smile]

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 8:10 am on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Apology accepted....

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:10 am on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Maple wrote: "Having something published ms cdwp...means he is going to HAVE it published (they do have publishing companies and LOTS of people have their books published by them) not publish it himself. AND so what if he does...where is your book? Who is he threatening? Who is lying?"

    Why the outrage for your "buddy" Mr. Maurer, Mr. Maple?

    His book nonsense is fake and so are his "acquaintances." Having a book published by a publishing company means the book has some sort of public interest. Since Mr. Maurer's nonsense is made-up, the only way he could have it published and distributed is if he paid for it himself.

    "where is your book?" Have I ever said I was writing one?

    You are simply a bully who loves to try to push people around by insulting them. That is why you don't understand the rules of this forum. You are so used to threatening people and using lies that you don't even know what lies and threats are.

    And you are incapable of having a discussion without using vile, disgusting language and calling names.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 8:08 am on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    You were lucky, John, to be treated so well on your return. Everyone I know had at least one unpleasant experience with protesters or "peace activists". To have none is something. I did have some bad experiences but I, too, was treated with respect and compassion by more people than those that didn't .... so it all worked its way out for the good. Bacardi was always a great catalyst for creativity !! [ha]

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:34 pm on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    As for ms collateral tirade: Mr Maurer...which of these did you play on?

    1 Gibson Custom B.B. King Lucille Hollow Body Electric Guitar (Ebony)
    Other style options: Cherry

    2 Epiphone BB King Lucille Hollow Body Electric Guitar (Black)
    Electric - Epiphone - 6-string - Full Size

    3 Gibson B.B. King Lucille Electric Guitar Cherry
    Electric - Gibson - 6-string - Full Size
    Gibson BB King Lucille Electric Guitar Cherry

    4 B.B. King Autographed Signed Gibson Lucille Best Airbrush Guitar UACC
    This is a full size fully functional incredible Gibson Lucille Guitar hand signed in person by BB King. The guitar itself has been custom ...

    Or did you just play on your own Gibson? Jimmi Hendrix was almost as good...I liked his Star Spangled Banner the best. Imagine that...a Lucille line!!!

    Having something published ms cdwp...means he is going to HAVE it published (they do have publishing companies and LOTS of people have their books published by them) not publish it himself. AND so what if he does...where is your book? Who is he threatening? Who is lying?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:22 pm on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    It will be a surprise! Wally. Maybe I can get some publicity for the plight of veterans...wait who got paid to do this? Oh yeah...Janey!

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:19 pm on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Ron Portal wrote:

    John.. you were treated with dignity and respect by everyone you met. The only people who said it happened were guys "that for other reasons mainly because their stories about being in country rang false". In other words, those of us that ran into people that showed us disrespect and even hatred received this treatment because we were lying about our involvement in the Viet Nam war?? Really, John, I thought better of you.

    You are right , Ron. I am committing the same error that Pat was. Speaking for all veterans. I apologize. I believe you. I am sorry you had to suffer that BS. I really liked your post the other day about the military and the politicians. The last time I came home the first night I drank a bottle of Bacardi and wrote poetry all night. One of them expressed that very theme you wrote about so well. I always wished I had kept it.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:12 pm on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    "conviction"

    So Pat, are you going to protest at Stadium 12 on opening weekend???

    [whistling]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:04 pm on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are right , Ron. I am committing the same error that Pat was. Speaking for all veterans. I apologize. I believe you.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 5:12 pm on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    John.. you were treated with dignity and respect by everyone you met. The only people who said it happened were guys "that for other reasons mainly because their stories about being in country rang false". In other words, those of us that ran into people that showed us disrespect and even hatred received this treatment because we were lying about our involvement in the Viet Nam war?? Really, John, I thought better of you.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 5:11 pm on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Maurer wrote: "They came to me, not vice-versa,bobin,delsolar, whatever, fraud. My place in fame was cemented years ago.Did Carlos Santana tune your guitar? Have you sat across from BB King and wailed on Lucille?(guitar brand name)."

    Why would you possibly call me a fraud? You actually are giving away your real identity, because we all know you are not who you claim to be.

    "Lucille" was a "guitar brand name?"

    No - even I knew this without looking it up - Lucille is the name BB King gave to all of his Gibson guitars.

    Another hint that you are full of baloney, "Mr. Maurer."

    Mr. Maurer wrote: "but you'll have to buy my book when I decide to have it published by even more acquaintences who are famous and waiting for me to send the transcripts."

    A book so good that you'll have to SELF-PUBLISH it? And key word here - "acquaintances."

    So much baloney - Oscar Meyer just called - they want their baloney back.

    "In the meantime, I'm going to get more liberal than I've ever been( just 4 u bobin,delsolar,fraud) I thought very lowly of you, but I feel that you deserve a promotion to "pain in the neck".

    I think that was a violation of Rule #3.

    Your little rant at 3:00 AM sounds more like a whinings of a groupy than anything else. Even the lowliest session musician has a website or a Facebook page.

    You have nothing.

    I think you have three times violated Rules #3 & #4.

    More liberal? Everyone knows that you hate liberals, i.e., "The simple fact remains that JF does not deserve her role as Nancy Reagan, period.That is like the libs on these forums calling themselves conservative."

    At least your hallucinations are entertaining, Mr. Maurer.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:53 am on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrl: In my previous post it should have said: ...puke t up dude!. I hit the post button by mistake. I fight for ALL veterans rights, needs and safety and against aspersions cast against them. For that I will never be sorry. 74% of the VN veterans say they would do it again...that says a lot.

    Wally: I hope you like my rants about kids, veterans, schools and other subjects that I believe in deeply. It is called convictions and commitment. 40 years of coaching says conviction and commitment.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:10 am on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Well mrl I ask specific questions for a reason....it is for exactly the same reasons...frauds. My brother Kelly was a door gunner and crew chief, Bobby was on PBRs and Gene (Bronze Star PH). Let me say I DO HONOR ALL . Later.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:40 am on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I do not know about Liberals calling themselves Conservative but there are a lot of right wing fanatics here that call themselves Conservative. If you had a father who was a drug addict and you did everything in your power to stop him from taking drugs does that make you a traitor to the father? Talking to trees is a metaphor for prayer and meditation. As to the "best not come near me" making threats to people you do not know and have no idea of their capabilities is stupid.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 4:38 am on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    Patty, you prevaricate.

    I distinctly remember the first Hanoi Jane rant by you...

    That I witnessed.

    Election season 2008, on the Galt forum.

    You've simply lost track...

    As you've been doing the same schtick so a long, long, long time!!

    Carry on.

    [smile]

     
  • robert maurer posted at 3:02 am on Thu, Apr 25, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    They came to me, not vice-versa,bobin,delsolar, whatever, fraud. My place in fame was cemented years ago.Did Carlos Santana tune your guitar? Have you sat across from BB King and wailed on Lucille?(guitar brand name)Did you bang hips(dance) with 3 members of the GoGo's?(I suggested the name shortening 5-8-82 ). Did you perform on stage at an audition party that a song you helped write made it to radio and the top 40? Did you get the message to Jeff Gordon (through his sister) to dump Ford and go to GM,since they had 52% of the total market and spent heavily into R&D? Did you have a dope pipe dream of an oval piston engine with 8 valves (Honda NS/NR500 that lapped the fastest Harley in a 5 lap race and was immediately "outlwed"(banned by AMA. Shadow,Magna,Intruder engines were all part of my contributions).Did you audition and sing with Jerry Garcia's brother(David) for front man position?(2007)Did you coin the term "baby bangles" when Suzanna Hoffs was with her 2 toddlers at Candy Cane park?(2002) Am I boring you yet with this? Good; there's a whole lot more, but you'll have to buy my book when I decide to have it published by even more acquaintences who are famous and waiting for me to send the transcripts. In the meantime, I'm going to get more liberal than I've ever been( just 4 u bobin,delsolar,fraud) I thought very lowly of you, but I feel that you deserve a promotion to "pain in the neck". Did you get Ms.Hoffs' Harley running in less than30 seconds, after so-called mechanic wasted 10 minutes of her time with his bs?Did Elliot Easton ask you to join the"cars?" And I'm supposed to bow to you? Have there been songs on the radio and CD that uses the exact wording back and forth between you and the one you chose for life?Didn't think so,

     
  • robert maurer posted at 10:47 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    Mr.Lucas wrote on his 4:40 pm. wed. 4-24 post;" If you were...... I sure as #! would not depend on J.Fonda to back me up, Anyone who sides with the enemy or talks to trees named Bob, best not come anywhere near me.The simple fact remains that JF does not deserve her role as Nancy Reagan, period.That is like the libs on these forums calling themselves conservative.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:50 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I joined the Army on my 17th birthday. I was in Vietnam less than a month after my 18th birthday. I stayed 19 months and came home. I was discharged as a Sgt. E-5 and because I came home with less than 5 months to go on my enlistment they cut me loose on july 24, 1969 almost 5 months before my 20th birthday. I was with a helicopter outfit and we were all over the central highlands. If you have any doubts about this put your money where your mouth is. When I came home I was treated with dignity and respect by everyone I met. There were no incidents of spitting or anything else. Every Vietnam Vet that I trusted and respected said the same thing. The only people who said it happened to were guys that for other reasons mainly because there stories about being in country rang false.The only other people who showed disrespect were people like you and Joe Baxter. You know, War hero wanna be super patriots

     
  • robert maurer posted at 8:38 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    I know that this is off subject, but the mental image of Jane Fonda in the place of an NBC reporter makes me giddy.A book I read titled " The Seige of Khe Sanh" puts the truth(as those who were there) saw it .Not like Walter Cronkite's infamous saying" ..."And that's the way it is."in perspective. The book is a collection of letters from the soldiers (who were there) to their families, describing what h... they were living through. Page 206,Cpl.Dennis Mannion sent this letter to his family: A camera man is doing a story about us and the useage of the M106 recoilless rifle( takes 2 troups to operate)and witnesses 1st hand how devastating this weapon was.It turns a quarter mile area into black fried nothingness.The troops nicknamed the reporter from NBC, MoPic, and here is what happened according to Cpl. Manning's letter to his parents;A 50 calibur round from the M106 is fired at a potential target to align the M106's target. MoPic asks condescendantly:" that's it?"At that second, the triggerman pulls the trigger, causing the breach to throw a 50 to 100 foot flame and concussion out the rear, where MoPic was standing,eyes glued on the camera; when the dirt,debris and sand pebbles settle, MoPic was on his butt, his glasses and camera about 20 feet away, while the the suspected NVA bunker was disintegrated.Cpl. Manning states that he has only laughed that hard a couple of times in his lifetime, " Beautiful", he said. Now to my point: I wish that it would have been Jane Fonda instead of MoPic who got the first class education.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:51 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    Folks, although the "I hate Hanoi Jane" schtick has been part of Pat's online repertoire for years...

    He recently saw the story on foxnews.com about a angry veteran launching a boycott against a new movie.

    "The Butler", Jane Fonda has only a small part. Cool. But wait, she's playing NANCY REAGAN. Not cool, protest on!

    Pat is compelled to do his part, spreading the word of the boycott.

    Let me help...

    [smile]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:49 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    "Boycott Jane Fonda playing Nancy Reagan Facebook page"

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Hanoi-Jane-Playing-Nancy-Reagan/393518640666420?hc_location=timeline

    "I am so glad I started this page, I truly am. For every comment I get from somebody defending her I get 100 more supporting me and better yet telling me they had no clue about HJ's past. I will occasionally get a comment 'didn't you ever make a mistake?' and I think REALLY? a mistake? forgetting to take the trash cans out on trash day is a mistake, collaborating with the enemy and committing treason is crime against your country!!! Since the day I started this I didn't now if this would generate the huge support and it has, so please keep it up and I will have more details on a nationwide picket line for theatre's when the movie debuts. Hanoi Jane has boycotted against America her entire life (except for the times she embraces capitalism to make a buck) So IT'S TIME TO GIVE HER A BIT OF HER OWN MEDICINE....lets execute OUR RIGHT EVERYONE......Freedom of speech!!!!!! Thanks everyone, Good Morning and have a great day!! (Larry Reyes)"

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:46 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    "Jane Fonda tell veterans boycotting her next movie, The Butler, 'get a life'"

    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/04/11/jane-fonda-tells-veterans-boycotting-her-movie-butler-to-get-life/

    The Butler - Inspired by Wil Haygood’s Washington Post article about an African-American man (played by Forest Whitaker) who served as a butler to eight presidents in the White House for over 30 years, “The Butler” traces the dramatic changes that impacted American society, from the civil rights movement to Vietnam and beyond. Distributed by The Weinstein Co., the studio headed by prominent Democratic supporter Harvey Weinstein, “The Butler” has also enlisted a number of known liberal supporters to play key Republican roles including John Cusack as Richard Nixon, and Robin Williams as Dwight Eisenhower.

    “It’s leftist Hollywood giving their finger to the rest of America,” Reyes said. “And that upsets me. But Hollywood is doing that on purpose.”

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:16 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat, I wish you well but I am going to put you on ignore. The truth is that your egotistical nonsense gets boring after a while.

     
  • Doug Chaney posted at 6:14 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    advocate Posts: 500

    Sounds a lot like Joe Baxter?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:36 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrl: Why don't you put a few facts on this page like most other Conservatives...when are you going to describe "white people" and dispel some of the myths in your posts. Give us a rundown on YOUR service background. What exactly have you done to make the world a better place?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:34 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    The only loudmouth blowhard on this page is you mrl. I wrote what I felt about Hanoi Jane and her phony life. As I said she should give a life for what she did. I think enough vets agree with me. You go see her movie I will stay home. Go pad her pocketbook...maybe she will give you some of it...haha.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:31 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Since my two brothers cannot speak for themselves, nor Mike McGarrah, nor my cousins who are on The Wall...don't question their service or mine...you know not where I was or what I did. What do you know about Nuclear Weapons deployed in Europe? Or nuclear operatives? Some of us are dying from other jobs we performed...do you know what tritium gas is trichloroethelyne? Some of us do and did. Don't question my military service...

    SSgt. Not many draftees ever made that rank.. You? Where were you stationed? What was your MOS? What have you done to serve your country in the past 35 years? Ever been elected to a public office, coached a baseball or swimming team, donated $20,000 for scholarships or worked in a Battered Women's Center, Rape Crisis Center, Homeless Children"s Facility, Make A Wish, at the VA as a volunteer? There is more to serving your country than if you carry a rifle or grenade or BAR or fire an M108, M107 or M105.

    I do know what Kerry did...the same thing jane fonda did. Just like her he had no remorse and told tall tales...when it suited his purpose and pocket book...like his yacht in Michigan.

    Apparently you don't read what others say either...

    "The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of America s commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world. If you ask people who live in these countries that won the war in Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media. The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism."

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:40 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Life is interesting. If you were in a rough situation and wanted to make sure some person would have your back who would you choose? Jane Fonda who put career in jeopardy, exposed herself to ridicule and scorn not to mention jail because being the true patriot she is did everything she could do to stop a policy that she felt was killing the country she loved or a super patriot like Pat Maple who thought the Vietnam war was so important to the safety of the United States not to mention the world that when drafted he did not make sure that he suited up and go to Vietnam to do his part? It is not even close.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:19 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You got drafted and served and I honor your service but you did not suit up for the big game. You are like George W Bush and Dick Cheney who talk the talk but let others walk the walk. You are not like John Kerry who was sitting on a destroyer and could have spent his tour sailing around the South China sea but instead volunteered and suited up for some of the most hazardous duty in country. I have read some of the thing you have said about him. What I mind is that you presume to talk for those who did suit up. You have a right to your opinions as insane as most of them are but do not pretend you speak for all Vietnam Veterans.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:08 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Because he is not loudmouth blowhard who has the gall and nerve to profess to speak for all Vietnam veterans and casts aspersions on all who dare to disagree with him. Pretty simple

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:29 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    As far as the war...who was in charge of it from the beginning? LBJ...a DEMOCRAT! A LIBERAL...the guy that stole the Social Security money! As far as Mr Maurer...unless you know that he did NOT hob-nob with celebrities your comments are garbage.

    I guess now they consider collateraldamage a cuss word...

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:27 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    The post was about boycotting a traitor's movie so she didn't benefit from the veterans who suffered there...if you choose to see it please wipe the slobber off your lips before entering because you have just spat on my two brothers and the people mentioned above..

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:26 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    So mrl: I suited up just like everyone else who got drafted...including my two brothers, eleven cousins, two uncles and too many friends...you are one of the group who thinks that because someone was a clerk or a mechanic they were not in the rough of it. FYI not all of the soldiers in VN saw any action. People like Kent Shebelut, Jack Huth, John Haze, Mike McGarrah and my two brothers might see your putrid comments as such. My family was well represented there.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:23 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    spat, garbage, putrid, mools hmmm...which is a curse word?

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:15 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    Again Mr Jacobs, any evidence?

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:14 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:11 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    Joanne you have a way with words

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:10 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:09 pm on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    [thumbup]
    Way to go Joanne

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:10 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Maurer: "There was a special on tv in the early 80s with both regarding this,which coiincides with what celebrities I was associated with back then told me."

    Wow, another Andrew Liebich among us who hobnobs with "celebrities."

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 10:13 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1486

    Governor of Arkansas serving two non-consecutive tenures from 1979 to 1981 and from 1983 to 1992, a student leader and a skilled musician. He is an alumnus of Georgetown University, where he was a member of Phi Beta Kappa and Kappa Kappa Psi and earned a Rhodes Scholarship to attend the University of Oxford. He married to Hillary Rodham Clinton, who served as United States Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013 and who was a Senator from New York from 2001 to 2009. Both Clintons received law degrees from Yale Law School. Clinton was the first member of the Democratic Party since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second full term as president. He successfully passed welfare reform and the State Children's Health Insurance Program, providing health coverage for millions of children. Clinton left office with the highest end-of-office approval rating of any U.S. president since World War II. Ya I'm sure I wouldn't want my kids to be as successful as that either it just brings out the jealousy of all the haters.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:48 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    This blanket statement about posters here, many of whom have served in the military, is insulting and unforgiveable.

    Another right winger who thinks that ONLY CONSERVATIVES do things like join the military.

    Disgusting!!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:42 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Maple wrote/quoted: "America lost because of its democracy; through dissent and protest it lost the ability to mobilize a will to win."

    America wasn't going to win anyway! What would make you think that? Even Lyndon Johnson, who escalated the war, decided not to run for reelection because he was freaking out and couldn't take all the body bags at Travis and Dover!

    We didn't KNOW HOW to win a "jungle war." The Vietnamese had the upper hand all along - besides they had been tirelessly fighting for 30+ years.

    The US solution to jungle warfare? Spray Agent Orange and clear the jungle growth. Well, how did that work out?

    Hint: We gave our own troops a death sentence - it's OK - it'll take a few years for them to start dying from weird diseases that we will deny are related to chemical warfare!!!

    I wonder if anyone noticed back in the 1980's that US military troops had suddenly stopped wearing OD fatigues and changed over to desert camo fatigues.

    We got smart and started training for what the military knew was going to be the next battleground - the Middle East. And it has been the battleground since 1991 when Papa Bush sent troops in for Operation Desert Storm!!

    And they still didn't learn from the Agent Orange fiasco - thousands returned with Gulf War Syndrome - and what have we done about that?

    Official statement - "There is no such thing as Gulf War Syndrome - it's another made up "disease."

    And Mr. Kinderman thinks that Obama "disdains his own military?" Seriously!!

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:30 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I think Jerry is ducking again. [smile]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:19 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Kinderman wrote: "In fact, President Obama's clear disdain for his own military should be a clear indication that he would have rather we didn't go to war with them."

    Apparently, Mr. Kinderman took offense at my original attempt to call him out on this comment.

    I, for one, am tired of this self-proclaimed "Christian" constantly waving his Bible and then making comments such as this.

    If Obama "disdains his military," then what description would we give to George Walker Bush and HIS military commanders who sent our troops into battle in Afghanistan and Iraq without sufficient body armor and other military materiel?

    Here from FOX News:

    "The Department of Defense has provided thousands of top-of-the-line protective vests to coalition forces on the ground while some U.S. troops in Iraq have been asked to take their chances with inferior flak jackets, sources told Foxnews.com."

    THE US GAVE VESTS TO COALITION FORCES (Not US troops) to induce them to send their troops to Iraq!!!

    More from the same article:

    "Congress has allocated funds for all U.S. troops to wear 16-pound, ceramic-plated Interceptor body armor (search), but as many as 51,000 American soldiers and civilian administrators in Iraq have not yet been equipped with the gear, and have been asking friends and families at home to purchase and send them off-the-shelf models for protection."

    ASKING FRIENDS AND FAMILY AT HOME TO PURCHASE AND SEND THEM!!!

    And Mr. Kinderman says WHO "disdains his military?"

    Get off it Jerry, really. It is disgusting the stuff that you make up.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 9:17 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Civilian authority always trumps what the military wants or don't want. Ever hear the old saying that mine is not to reason why, mine is but to do or die? The President is the commander in chief of the armed forces and whatever he and his advisers tell the military to do the military must obey by military and civilian statute. If one disagrees then if you're an officer you can resign your commission. If you're enlisted all you can do is wait til your enlistment is up and not re-enlist. As John Lucas can tell you...the military is not a democracy.

     
  • Todd Cronin posted at 9:16 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Todd Posts: 109

    Back at you kiddo [wink][wink]

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 9:08 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    That's good John. Who says you don't have a sense of humor.[beam]

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 9:04 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Again with the race baiting. Is that all you've got to go on. Don't you get tired of bringing that up?? You don't know me or my family...two of my daughters are with black men. One of my grand daughters that I love dearly is half black and half Irish. Get over your racist remarks Joanne and stick with the facts. Its his policies and , as your hero Clinton put it, its the economy stupid. At this point in the Reagan recovery the growth rate was 7%. Obama's growth rate at this time is 1.7%. Hell, China's is 9%. This isn't a recovery its a recession and in many parts of our nation its a depression. Do you really believe he knows how an economy operates, Joanne? What is your proof of that belief? Are you so in the tank with this president that you ignore the reality that he knows nothing about economics?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:50 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat, you represent everything that is wrong with America. This statement is way across the line:
    Your responses are much like those I have had from many veterans and especially the Viet Vets. We appreciate them very much. The mools that post here are the same ones who ran off to Canada, dodged the draft, spit on the returning soldiers, protested the war and worse.

    Vietnam veterans come with all sorts of views on the war. Ron Portal and I are on different sides of the political spectrum but with his post yesterday about the politicians and the military he gets the central problem and he has my respect. We do not need some blowhard cheerleader who sat on the sidelines when it was his turn to suit up to tell us what we think. We can speak our own truth as we see it.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 8:44 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    The glass house, todd, is a metaphor not a real place of occupancy. 2nd I,too, could care less for either of the Clintons, 3rd I don't know a Curt Hennig but I do know that the only Mr. Perfect in world history is Jesus and lastly I have accomplished many things in my life that will take up too much space in this venue but if you choose to believe that all I've ever done is write silly comments in a local newspaper...you're free to do so. I love ya - you little rascal!!

     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 8:39 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    During a visit to a POW camp, she made a statement to a Prisoner of War. "I'll bet you regret what you've done now"

    The Prisoner of War she spoke to handed her a note claiming torture, and she passed it to the enemy before she left!

    Nice gal huh?

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 8:34 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    If a politician of any party betrays the oath of office they should not hold that office and that includes if their personal lives brings shame or dishonor to the office they hold. The problem, as I have stated, is that liberals never hold their people to that standard unless their activities are so out there that they have no choice but to let them go. Republicans have lost office holders by just saying something stupid. And, John, I know that the Bible says to forgive 70 times 7....but whoever is committing the transgression still has to suffer the consequences of his/her actions. That includes me. There have been many times in my life I've acted in a way I shouldn't have. Whoever I might of offended may forgive me but I still suffer with the consequences.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 8:24 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Ron: It is too bad we still have morons like Jane Fonda and her boss manipulating lame brain people to their Beliefs...we know where we stand. More later.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 8:18 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Maurer: Your responses are much like those I have had from many veterans and especially the Viet Vets. We appreciate them very much. The mools that post here are the same ones who ran off to Canada, dodged the draft, spit on the returning soldiers, protested the war and worse.

    A comment that has been attributed to General Giap (VN greatest commander) was that they were headed to the negotiation table until we stopped bombing...there is some controversy over that statement but I will offer this one that has been proven time and again:

    "The American anti-war movement] was essential to our strategy. Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and that she would struggle along with us."
    "The conscience of America was part of its war-making capability, and we were turning that power in our favor. America lost because of its democracy; through dissent and protest it lost the ability to mobilize a will to win."
    Bui Din was exactly and they read our Democratic leadership like a book.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 8:18 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Read the peace treaty that ended the war. The North capitulated and gave up.
    The US then promised to give military aid to South Viet Nam to help them enforce the treaty. But the Congress led by Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Schumer, Dodds, refused to live up to the treaty and they turned their backs and betrayed not only the Viet Namese but the Laosians and Cambodians because without an American presence in Asia over 2 million people were slaughtered. We beat them on the battlefield but were betrayed by the democratically controlled Congress. That's fact ....not dreams

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 8:06 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    God....I hope not. Clinton would be someone I would use as an example of what not to be.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:48 am on Wed, Apr 24, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Yes mrc: It did create awareness of her BS during the Viet Nam war...which a lot of people (younger) knew nothing about. MANY veterans have taken the stance as I have to boycott any of her movies or plays or causes. She was a traitor, is a traitor and IS NOT remorseful: Perhaps you should have read a bit further in the wiki post and you would have given people the entire truth: She was regretful...WHEN it suited her purpose...just as she is NOW: Tell the WHOLE truth next time:

    FROM THE SAME WIKI POST: Two paragraphs later!

    In a 60 Minutes interview on March 31, 2005, Fonda reiterated that she had no regrets about her trip to North Vietnam in 1972, with the exception of the anti-aircraft-gun photo. She stated that the incident was a "betrayal" of American forces and of the "country that gave me privilege". Fonda said, "The image of Jane Fonda, Barbarella, Henry Fonda's daughter ... sitting on an enemy aircraft gun was a betrayal ... the largest lapse of judgment that I can even imagine." She later distinguished between regret over the use of her image as propaganda and pride for her anti-war activism: "There are hundreds of American delegations that had met with the POWs. Both sides were using the POWs for propaganda ... It's not something that I will apologize for." Fonda said she had no regrets about the broadcasts she made on Radio Hanoi, something she asked the North Vietnamese to do: "Our government was lying to us and men were dying because of it, and I felt I had to do anything that I could to expose the lies and help end the war."[47]

    So when I say to you mrc: "Get a life!" I am NOT lying and men WERE DYING.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 11:43 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    Walter; that was a heartwarming movie that made me wonder why life wasn,t really the way it was in that movie. In reality though Henry stated that he was disappointed in his daughter. What I love to see(as demonstrated by Henry and Jane)is that politics aside, we,as Americans stand hand in hand during disaster. (hurricanes,floods,terrorism,etc.)and lend a hand however we can.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 11:18 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    John: Henry really felt sorry for his daughter despite their political differences and did as a loving father would do to revive his own image and his daughters shot career after she was photoed on friendly terms on a NVC artillary weapon with the enemy. There was a special on tv in the early 80s with both regarding this,which coiincides with what celebrities I was associated with back then told me.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:56 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    Thanks for the Wiki Wa

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:51 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    Correction I referred to the wrong post of Mr Lucas. It should have been his 4:54 post. This is to those future archivists studying this centureis LNS bloggers. I don't want them to thnk we are nuts or something.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:44 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:43 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:34 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    [thumbup]

     
  • Todd Cronin posted at 10:22 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Todd Posts: 109

    Well "ronnie" lets see, first off I do own a house
    with more windows then solid walls.
    Second, who gives a rats-a$$ about W.J. Clinton???
    Third, what I said about na,na,na,nancy WAS during her
    time in the White House was/is well documented.
    Fourth, the only "Mr. Perfect" I know of is one
    Curtis Michael "Curt" Hennig. and by the way,
    what have you done with your life and what
    accomplishments have you made to the world
    besides making silly comments in a local newspaper???
    hmmmm???

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:52 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    Bob, they made a movie together????

    On Golden Pond (1981)

    Cast: Henry Fonda, Jane Fonda...

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082846/

    [huh]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:48 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I always wonder about an self described Christian who says something is unforgivable.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:45 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Robert you might want to rent the movie "On Golden Pond" which was made in 1981. It starred Henry Fonda and Jane Fonda.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:23 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    "If it creates hoopla, it will cause more people to see the movie. I figured it would tweak the right."

    Pat, it worked.

    Your rehashing, in a LNS letter, one of your favorite topics, Hanoi Jane, confirms it.

    And just look at the predictable reactions...

    Ron Portal: "Think Clinton our beloved pervert in chief"

    Jerry: "President Obama's clear disdain for his own military"

    Or fine examples of Christian thought...

    Ron Portal: "by the hands of the enemy that you honor so much" (re: North Vietnamese people)

    Jerry: "And it’s unforgivable" (re: Jane's Hanoi trip)

    Folks, Pat wants you boycott this movie...

    He wants you to fume over what happened 41 years ago.

    Forget about Pat, enjoy this fine spring weather and go see a movie.

    [smile]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:22 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    PS. Jerry will catch it later, on TV. For free.


    [thumbup]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:22 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    Here's what wiki says:

    "(Jane Fonda) It happened on my last day in Hanoi. I was exhausted and an emotional wreck after the 2-week visit ... The translator told me that the soldiers wanted to sing me a song. He translated as they sung. It was a song about the day 'Uncle Ho' declared their country's independence in Hanoi's Ba Dinh Square. I heard these words: "All men are created equal; they are given certain rights; among these are life, Liberty and Happiness." These are the words Ho pronounced at the historic ceremony. I began to cry and clap. These young men should not be our enemy. They celebrate the same words Americans do. The soldiers asked me to sing for them in return ... I memorized a song called Day Ma Di, written by anti-war South Vietnamese students. I knew I was slaughtering it, but everyone seemed delighted that I was making the attempt. I finished. Everyone was laughing and clapping, including me ... Here is my best, honest recollection of what happened: someone (I don't remember who) led me towards the gun, and I sat down, still laughing, still applauding. It all had nothing to do with where I was sitting. I hardly even thought about where I was sitting. The cameras flashed ... It is possible that it was a set up, that the Vietnamese had it all planned. I will never know. But if they did I can't blame them. The buck stops here. If I was used, I allowed it to happen ... a two-minute lapse of sanity that will haunt me forever ... But the photo exists, delivering its message regardless of what I was doing or feeling. I carry this heavy in my heart. I have apologized numerous times for any pain I may have caused servicemen and their families because of this photograph. It was never my intention to cause harm."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Fonda

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:21 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1113

    Here's what wiki says (part 2):

    "(Jane Fonda) I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families. [...] I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft gun, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Fonda

     
  • robert maurer posted at 8:56 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    Even her own father(Henry Fonda ) has/had nothing to do with her since that infamous incident until his death. THE WORDS OF UNNAMEABLE SUPERSTARS THAT SPENT SOME TIME WITH ME.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:47 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I made the same observation on this nonsense down below. That kind of statement backed by no facts gets kind of old. You are absolutely right to call him on his nonsense. I guarantee even if he does reply it will just amount to a bunch of hot air without any Obama quotes or any rationale for his reasoning. He wants it to be true so for him it is.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:20 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730


    Jerome just because you say something or believe something does not make it true such as:

    In fact, President Obama's clear disdain for his own military should be a clear indication that he would have rather we didn't go to war with them.

    Where do you get this nonsense?

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 7:31 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1486

    I would think the ideology the liked the most was the one that said we were not worried about catching Osama bin Laden and not the one that executed him.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 7:00 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    Whoa way to go Eric. I couldn't agree more. You hit the nail on the head in your 4:11 post today
    .
    Kevin I have to disagree with your 4:38 post and agree with Mr Lucas's 4:37 post saying that the the comparison is a "false equivalency". Abu Grave (sp?) did more to aid and comfort the enemy as did the justifying of the use of torture and Gitmo. All surpass Fonda in providing aid and comfort to the enemy(s) as well as their recruiting efforts. And even M Moore was supassed by the outrageous "Obama 2016" hit piece film by Denesh DeSousa.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:36 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:33 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:01 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    If you had any evidence of this I would like to see it Mr Jacobs.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 6:00 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1424

    I don't think even P Maple can keep track of his multiple issue rants now and this is just aother tempest in a teapot . I agree with Ms Bobin below and I too saw the television reveal that J Fonda was walking with the "enemy" and I failed to equate it with something like providing aid and comfort to the enemy.

    Again we didn't have an enemy till we made them an enemy. Its not like they attacked Pearl Harbor or anything. I blame conservatives more for creating the hysteria over the communist scare issue (McCarthyism) much like conservtives want to make all muslims a threat which got us into the, just as usless ,Iraq war.

    What was the aid, what was the cmfort? What about D Rodman paling with N Korea while they were threatening us or JZ and Beyonce consorting with Cuba? They were nothing. They can be over and forgotten if you let them. They're simply brief episodes that really haven't had any impact on anything much like a tight rope walker balancing his way across two sky scrapers its over when its over. You can make somethin of it or shrug it off.

    If you lost family or friends in the war this was not the determinant of their fates nor an insult unless you are trying to make it so. If anything was said derogatory by her to the POWs (I would find it hard to believe) then that would be another matter. But at the same time I did a lot of dumb things that Iwould find hard to be held accountable for now. I also had friends in the war. I hated the war and I hated the politicians that couldn't figure out why we were there and refused to get us out (much like Iraq). So the J Fonda incident was an insignificant footnote in a disaserous failing of America. Don't use her as a scapegoat.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 5:28 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "the war Obama has kept us in?"

    I think President Obama has been doing his best to keep the timelines that Bush promised for getting the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    As for "hanging in effigy," I think this speaks for itself:

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/obama-hung-in-effigy-678923

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/18/obama-hung-in-effigy-at-r_n_504746.html

    http://fox21online.com/content/naacp-responds-obama-effigy-hung-miller-hill-billboard

    Google it. There's more.

    And the best part is that Obama hasn't been hung if effigy, for the most part, due to his policies, IT'S BECAUSE HE IS BLACK.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 5:25 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2349

    Considering that most Conservatives/Republicans have supported our war against radical Islam I doubt they'd consider themselves comforted or recipients of any aid whatsoever. I would think they'd be much more encouraged by those who have claimed the war(s) to be illegal or otherwise wrong by Americans. In fact, President Obama's clear disdain for his own military should be a clear indication that he would have rather we didn't go to war with them. So which ideology is the "nicer" of the two towards those who want nothing but to destroy us?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:54 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Liberals were against Bush over policies such as the tax cuts, Iraq, torture etc. though there were attacks that were over the top for the most part it was about real issues. This was my comment from above:

    Are you saying the communist, fascist, dictator, weak on defense, where is your birth certificate, Kenyan, Indonesian, Muslim, radical Christian, keeping company with terrorists, where are your grades, UnAmerican, food stamp occupier of the White House has been unfairly attacked?

    There is a real difference in what the attacks were about as to being based in reality and on real issues. This is why it is a false equivalency. It is true the feelings were visceral in their intensity on both sides.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 4:38 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1982

    Eric, when it was Bush in office the Liberals were doing the same thing to him. Mike Moore even put out a (very biased) movie on Bush. Do an image search for "president bush hung in effigy" and tell me what you think would happen if the same were done today to protest the "war" Obama's kept us in?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:37 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Are you saying the communist, fascist, dictator, weak on defense, where is your birth certificate, Kenyan, Indonesian, Muslim, radical Christian, keeping company with terrorists, where are your grades, UnAmerican, food stamp occupier of the White House has been unfairly attacked? Where is your evidence? [smile]

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 4:20 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1486

    Ron have you done anything to equal the Clinton's life, Bill or Hilary and yet you seem pretty critical of them. Hypocrisy must also be a common denominator to those throwing stones.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 4:11 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1486

    We have been at war for the entire time Obama has been in office. Have the constant attacks from the right on the Commander in Chief bolstered our enemies? Has the divisiveness of the right not given aid and comfort to the terrorist?

    Those on the right haven’t given Obama one bit of respect in five years, not respect for the man or the office, so cry me a river for how Ronnie and old Mother Reagan are being treated. I won’t hold my breath waiting for an apology.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:53 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1486

    I agree also. Why put up with it if you don't like the way politicians treat warriors why do their bidding?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:15 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    There was this guy named Jesus. He said we should forgive 70 times 7. I guess if it is not in Leviticus the bible is just a bunch of nonsense.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:06 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I agree. Very well put.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 2:01 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    I thought a politicians life and his family life beyond their political activities are considered personal and none of our business. Think Clinton our beloved pervert in chief. To liberals their heroes are untouchable to any criticism in their personal life but those of their opposition are thrown to the wolves. And, as the old saying goes, Mr.Cronin, those who throw stones may live in glass houses themselves. Are you Mr. Perfect and have you accomplished anything in life that equals Mr. and Mrs. Reagan??? Jealousy is a common denominator of those who throw stones.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 1:43 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Talking of war and Mr. Lucas' comments of our brave men and women who fought in the Viet Nam War or any other conflict in our history. In Gen. MacArthur's bio he blamed politicians and gov'ts for nation fighting nation. His biographer wrote," The General believed that war could be, should be, abolished. He saw it not as an extension of politics but as a consequence of a political collapse which threw gov'ts into a kind of military receivership in which all power should be given into the hands of professional soldiers, whose sole mission should be eventual triumph. If a nation wasn't willing to make a total military commitment, he said, IT SHOULDN'T FIGHT AT ALL. " It's the federal gov't's failure that we enter into these conflicts with, what I see, no battle plan that includes the word victory. We never seem to have an exit strategy. We are constantly thrown into these conflicts by civilians who have no concept of what war is about other than what they see coming out of Hollywood. There is no consideration for the lives of the military personnel and the effect on them and their families. They are used as canon fodder by incompetents who couldn't succeed in the real world so they went into politics where all you have to do is lie with a straight face or quivering lip to show outwardly you feel our pain...right before they go to their cocktail parties and adulterous affairs slapping each other on their backs telling each other how smart and brave they are and how without them all would be lost. I belong to a military family with a long military history...it's not the military that sends us into these areas its the civilian political ruling class. Blame them not the military which is the one gov't agency that has a Constitutional mandate. Unlike the hundreds of other agencies that have no constitutional authority.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:37 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Ron, much of what you say is true. In all wars the brutality on both sides is always appalling an inhumane. This war, like Iraq, never had to happen. It was a war of choice and for me it was a bad choice. I understand how you feel about Jane Fonda. For me though she stood up for what he believed in and like the Dixie Chicks she paid a commercial price as well as the other prices I stated before. It is the same reason I admire and respect Barry Goldwater even though I disagreed with him on most issues. Being true to what you believe is something I admire in anyone.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:32 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2349

    Mr. Portal - I’ve never had a problem with protesting or protestors. It’s one of those “I may not agree with what you’re protesting, but I will defend your right to protest” kind of thing.

    On the other hand, to protest against the United States on foreign soil (friend or enemy) is just plain wrong; but to protest while giving a wink and a nod to our enemies - that’s treason. I have little patience for that kind of behavior. When someone has a high profile due to pop culture, politics or whatever, this gives the enemy a boost - it gives them aid and comfort - that’s treason.

    And it’s unforgivable.

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 1:06 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    She risked NOTHING. She is adored by the hate America first press and crowd. When protesters in America are jailed its like a badge of honor. No harm is done to them and they receive accolades from the same hate America crowd. Protesters in places like China and Cuba [etc.] aren't treated so...they're killed. If America treated protesters so Fonda and her ilk would cower in their mansions never to be heard from... and Mr. Lucas speaking the same vitriol as our Sec. of State John Kerry is appalling who has made a career out of denigrating and belittling the military [his so-called brothers] that he says he loves and respects from one side of his mouth and then accuses them of murder and other crimes from the other side of his lying mouth. I was going to be a history teacher. Was going to college in southern California when I walked into history class as the teacher was showing slides of " American atrocities in Viet Nam". I had just returned and I had never seen or heard of these things happening so I stood up and asked the teacher where was he getting this slide show and information? He said from the Viet Nam vets against the war organization. It had just came out that the head of this organization who claimed he was a fighter pilot and flew combat missions over Nam turned out to be a tech-sergeant in the Air Force who never got closer than flying in supplies into Japan. John Kerry was this mans assistant. I told the teacher that he was spreading lies by a group of liers who had been caught in their lies. Do you know what this guy said? " Well, it could happen with this gov't so it must be true". I said you're responsibility to us is to teach facts and the motivations behind them...not innuendos that could happen, in his mind, because he hated an unpopular war. We had a yelling match...I gave him you're my number one hand signal [this is before my becoming a Christian] and left the class and the college and started hitchhiking across the US until I got to my Nana and Pa's in Boston. How about the '68 Tet offensive, Mr. Lucas? I think I remember you said you were there [was this when you were wounded?]. The thousands that were executed by the invading Viet Cong and put into shallow graves with limbs sticking out of the ground. They killed anyone who had, they thought, been helpful to the Americans. Their lists were extensive. Most were women and children. That famous picture seen around the world of the man killing the Viet Cong soldier by shooting him point blank in the head was viewed as monstrous. But the story behind it was conveniently left out by our press and that is this man had been captured in the house of the man's best friend where his best friend and his entire family had been shot point by the man captured. I can go on of all the examples of village elders and their families all over Viet Nam being treated in the same manner by the Viet Cong who terrorized the populace before we got there and after. How about the approx. 2 million who perished by the hands of the enemy that you honor so much, Mr. Lucas. There are two sides to every story, John, there are those fighting to be free from tyranny and those supporting tyranny. And you of all people should know that the group that suffers the most in any war from the beginning of time til now are the innocents just trying to survive to the next day.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:23 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Beaten and going to the peace table? In your dreams, Mr. Portal.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:22 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    First let me say that I personally could care less about Jane Fonda and have no pro or con thoughts about her at all.

    A few facts to clarify Pat Maple's hysteria:

    This movie is not ABOUT Nancy Reagan and, reportedly, Nancy was pleased with the selection of Jane Fonda.

    The film, "The Butler," is about an African American White House butler who served under 8 administrations.

    Fonda actually has only a cameo role in the film.

    The Facebook page set up called "Boycott Hanoi Jane playing Nancy Reagan," has only gotten 400 some odd hits.

    And MR. PORTAL - where is your documentation that the North Vietnamese were going to "surrender" until Jane Fonda showed up? Kissinger had been in secret talks for most of 1972 with the goal of a cease fire. Fonda went to N. Vietnam in July 1972.

    And, YOU, I'm sure, know that North Vietnam never surrendered, nor did the US think it ever would. The goal was a cease fire and draw-down of American troops, which, btw, was finally accomplished in January 1973.

    I may be old and a little forgetful now, but I lived through the Vietnam era and had friends and relatives who served in-country, but I don't recall the US ever thinking it was going to win the war.

    What makes anyone think that the North Vietnamese, who had been fighting first the French, then the US (when France dumped the mess on the US), since 1945 (almost THIRTY years) were ever going to abandon the conflict.

    They proved it to the world when they ran the final US troops out of Saigon in 1975, forcing the Americans to flee from the roof of the US Embassy.

    And guess who the US now has diplomatic and trade relations with and a huge tourism industry?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:16 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I think real enemy was our own arrogance and self righteousness.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 12:01 pm on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2349

    Being against a war is one thing; desiring that we even walk away from a war is yet another. But to give aid and comfort to the enemy of even an “unpopular” war while our own members of the armed forces are fighting and dying is simply unforgivable; even if an apology is offered many years later. She used her celebrity status to garner attention to herself and her “cause.”

    Jane Fonda is not discussed in my home for good reason. One thing she is not is a “patriot,” unless of course the North Vietnamese might hold her in such high esteem, which I can certainly understand why they would. I am thankful that she will always be considered a traitor.

    As far as Fonda portraying Nancy Reagan, although I believe she might be able to pull it off insofar as acting is concerned, I can think of no greater insult to our 40th president and his beloved wife than to cast her in that role. I cannot help but think such a decision was purposefully made as an outright act of disrespect toward President Ronald and First Lady Nancy Reagan. Of course I’ll never view the movie and I hope others will boycott it as well.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:30 am on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Not to mention her addiction to astrological charts that she then used to direct Ronnie's activities.

    Sounds like Fonda was the perfect choice - 2 cuckoo birds in the same tree.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:29 am on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Jane Fonda was against a war that killed over a million Vietnamese, saturated a country with Agent Orange and was a cascade of war crimes committed on a daily basis by both sides. We used more ordinance in Vietnam than we did in all of WW II. It was a war that should not have ever happened. I think she was right in her opposition to it.

    The idea that if she had not gone to North Vietnam they would have surrendered is ludicrous.

    I think she was wrong in going to North Vietnam. She has since apologized for doing so.

    Jane Fonda is a patriot in the purest form. She loved her country so much that she risked public ridicule and scorn, not to mention jail time. She wanted her country to do the right thing. I applaud her for her patriotism and her courage. I also agree with her assessment of the situation.

    The list of Republicans how were also against the war included Thurston Morton, Wayne Morse, Stuart Symington, Jacob Javits, C.W. Whalen Jr among others. Hardly hippies. These were men of conscience who took the unpopular stand in the face of political ruin. I applaud their courage and patriotism.


     
  • Todd Cronin posted at 8:50 am on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Todd Posts: 109

    pssst, hey pat maple of Galt,
    nancy reagan was ADDICTED to
    tranquilizers and thus a HYPOCRITE!!
    (you knew that right)?????
    [wink][wink]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 5:30 am on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2349

    Hear, hear, Messrs Maple and Portal – HEAR, HEAR!!

     
  • Ron Portal posted at 4:40 am on Tue, Apr 23, 2013.

    Ron Portal Posts: 120

    Mr. Maple, I agree with you wholeheartedly. The North Vietnamese were beaten and going to the peace table when this person [out of respect for LNS I can't call her what I want to call her] went to North VietNam and took pictures in a helmet on an anti-aircraft gun and sang kumby-ya with the enemy. Her visit gave them such a boost in morale they decided to quit the peace talks and carry on. The blood of Every soldier, airman, and sailor who died, was wounded or contracted diseases from the day she entered North Viet Nam is on her hands. She became an enemy combatant and should of been tried for treason and executed. I can hear the liberals now saying that it wasn't a declared war and she has every right to voice her opposition to the conflict, yada , yada. But this was war and if she opposed it she has every right to say so but to go into a country that we are fighting to defeat is going over the line. Giving aid and comfort to the enemy is a treasonable offense punishable by death. I can also hear the liberals say that she can't be called an enemy combatant because she's an American citizen. Your hero, FDR, in WW2 sentenced the German saboteurs captured on the east coast to death, in a military trial [not civilian as Obama and Holder insist] . Two of them were American citizens.
    And the fact that Fonda has never showed any remorse for her actions is doubly insulting to veterans of any of our conflicts.

     

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