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Sexuality does not belong in the Parade of Lights

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Posted: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 6:16 am, Tue Dec 11, 2012.

I am a longtime Lodian. I have raised my three daughters in this lovely town. We have shopped here, gone to church here, attended school and worked here. We have also attended the Lodi Light Parade for many years. We have chosen to live in Lodi for many reasons, one of which is that Lodi still has a small-town conservative feel with basic family values. But at the Light Parade, I had cause to change my mind.

When I saw the "Rainbow Pride" float go by, I was not only shocked but very disappointed. What exactly does the sexual preference and behaviors of anyone have to do with the celebration of Christmas or city pride? Representing our schools, businesses, churches and community clubs and organizations are one thing, but exploiting sexual behaviors in any form is truly uncalled for.

It's as simple as this: The sexual activities of adults should be kept in the privacy of their own home. What do we have in store for us next year? Naked homosexuals dancing around on the floats? This is what's happening now in the city of our not-too-distant neighbor, San Francisco.

Last time I checked, this was a family event with children present. Since when is it considered good form to flaunt the sexual behaviors of anyone in front of a child, even if they are doing it under the name "Rainbow"? I didn't see the "Heterosexual Pride" float at this event. I have enough self respect and dignity to keep certain things private. What happens in the privacy of my own bedroom, stays in the privacy of my own bedroom. I haven't started a club in order to have the city acknowledge my personal sexual choices. Regardless of what the liberals in this country want to call it, it is still about sexuality.

This was not appropriate. Bad move, Lodi bad move.

Christy White

Lodi

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Welcome to the discussion.

209 comments:

  • brian ratto posted at 9:26 am on Thu, Dec 27, 2012.

    brian ratto Posts: 8

    Just another invitation to everyone here.
    The Lodi Rainbow Project is meeting on January 5, 2012 at 3:30 pm at the Lodi Round Table Pizza (Kettleman Ln. and Lower Sacramento Rd.)
    Everyone is welcome to join us.

     
  • carla anaya posted at 9:23 am on Sun, Dec 23, 2012.

    carla anaya Posts: 3

    I am at a total loss for words with this article..........All i can say lady is Really? Really?..............the parade was not focused on that particular float, i'm sure there were other floats people did not like but single them out? I dont think so!! Get a life lady! Get a life!!!

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 10:27 am on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 146

    God did not say vengeance is mine.

     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 4:01 pm on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    You talk about arrogant,. where did you get that from my post ?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:58 pm on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    I hope I do get to meet him. I want to thank him for his parables on love, tolerance and how to live without fear. I want to than him for always knowing that the problem is not others but myself. You might want to read some of the things he said for they are quite amazing. I know that the Old testament and Paul makes you feel like a Old Testament prophet but that was not Jesus' message.

     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 3:40 pm on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    Mr. Rick Houdack, and Mr. John Lucas, If I'm wrong no harm no foul. But if I'm right you both are in for a long and painful eternal death! And John Lucas you will meet him too. But unlike you and people like you I don't wish you or anyone ill will... God says vengeance is mine...

    Good Luck...

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:22 pm on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    The problem is not Mr Jacobs God or whether God exists. The problem is that Mr. Jacobs thinks he is God

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:53 am on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    I would love to be the fly on the wall when you and Jerome meet Jesus. That is going to be an interesting conversation.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 11:39 am on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    I have to ask Taylor, after considering what your 16-year-old grand-daughter said to you, did that one remark alter your stance on homosexuality? Did her making you feel two inches tall force you to put aside all that you believe as a Christian? Because if it did, then she (or others) might make other comments that could force you to accept other things that are wrong.

    Now while you didn't fully express what you believe insofar as homosexuality is concerned, either way I'd advise you to fully consider where it is you do stand and then seek out good counsel at your church for guidance on the matter.

    Your grand-daughter was absolutely correct though. She shouldn't reject her friend simply because she knew her name from school; and neither should you. As a Christian we are taught to condemn the sin but love the sinner. And this goes for ourselves most of all. None of us are without sin; none are perfect. But we are expected to behave as Christ-like as possible. And when we fall, as we will certainly do, we're to turn to God for guidance and forgiveness.

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 10:59 am on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 146

    Robert Jacobs, your belief doesn't make him real.

     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 10:09 am on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    Yes he did Jerome, The bible speaks clearly on this. Those who practice these things are already condemned...

     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 10:07 am on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    Rick Houdack, This is because he hasn't revealed himself to you. Just because you don't believe doesn't make him not real...

    Good luck sir...

     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 10:04 am on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    Christy White is right, it isn't appropriate for children or adults either!

    I could talk about the one (God) who created this planet and everything on it but most people (even though they confess to be Christian, or followers of God) do not follow Christians values let alone what God commands.

    I know, I know, another God freak. The fact is, human being on this planet will meet him one day weather you believe or not!

    God be merciful to those who denied you, and to the rest of us who strive to be God like...

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 7:53 am on Sat, Dec 15, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 146

    Quoting Bible passages and insisting your personal god in angry is no more relevant than quoting the Koran and insisting Zeus or Woden is angry. Destroying living people and their families, in the service of myths, is foolish.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:53 pm on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Now thqt Jerome has continued to insist on his opinion even now by saying he is justified in his opinion, fine well and good, can we now recognize there are other conflicting opinions that don't promote discriminatory notions.

    When quoting Paul (Timothy) as Mr Lucas states you really need to realize Paul is the first person violating what you just offered. By "inventing" christianity and its tenants he violated the law as you just presented. Paul was not directly connected to Jesus, and argued (supposedly) with those that were connected, so for many his credibility is questioned.

    I reread the same passages from 4 other versions of the bible and find your "paraphrasing" problematic since the original text(s) have the pharisees elevated to paragons of rightousness as opposed to his experiences with them in the 4 gospels. If you quote passages it is better to cut and paste to avoid the accusation of only picking what is convenient to justify your position.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:52 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    As usual using Paul's words not Jesus' words. Jerome is not a Christian but a Paulist. Old Testament and Paul cool. Jesus not so much

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:44 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    For those who believe that Jesus Christ did not condemn homosexuality (NOT homosexuals) since He never addressed the issue specifically, there are of course many sins that are still so despite Christ’s not enumerating them during His very short time on Earth.

    Matthew 5 and 1 Timothy 1 address this matter sufficiently (both are New Testament extracts for those of you who wrongly believe that the Old Testament no longer applies):

    Matthew 5:17-19 (Jesus speaking) –: Do not think that I have come to abolish the law OR the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place. So anyone who breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. (My emphasis added) (The Net Bible, (c) 1996-2005)

    1 Timothy 1:8-11(from Paul to Timothy) - But we know that the law is good if someone uses it legitimately, 9 realizing that law is not intended for a righteous person, but for lawless and rebellious people, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers – in fact, for any who live contrary to sound teaching. 11 This accords with the glorious gospel of the blessed God that was entrusted to me. (Ibid)

    Please notice the use of the word “practicing” when describing homosexuality. This is where I believe one’s strength through God’s Word and the Holy Spirit would be helpful. Still, this is what I believe through my relationship with God. Just as Jesus would not have condemned a “homosexual,” it is the acts of homosexuality that are an abomination to Him and His Father. Now, if there are those who truly believe it’s time to remove these Scriptures from the Bible simply because we’ve become more “enlightened” and we know better than God’s Word, then I also believe someone will be brought to God to answer for it one day.

    For those of you who simply don’t believe in God or the Bible – please move along.

    I just now learned of the horrific shootings in Connecticut. I believe this is an appropriate time for me to refrain from further posts here.

     
  • Dean Tiernan posted at 9:59 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    Dean Tiernan Posts: 17

    So I read the initial letter, sorry I've missed all the rest. Was there sex in the parade? Or feigned sex? Were there displays of scantily clad men or women? Maybe it is the sign that proclaims they are gay.

    There are many reasons it is important to identify, especially for people who have hidden "in the closet", traditionally. Please explain to me what is sexual about a sign? A flag or pride. Pretending "they" don't exist and they are not going to pervert your kids. The end of one of the pride chants, goes get over it. It is We're here, we're que*r, get over it. There is no harm in light and awareness,. I am uncomfortable in presence of public displays of affection of most types. Those sorts of things belong in movies. I do allow hand holding and light kissing. NOTHING else, and watch those hands.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:44 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    You are wrong... I have not one anti-gay comment. your conclusion is once again bizarre.

    I think your animosity and hatred for people that think differently that you is again clouding your judgment.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:11 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    The title of this letter is... Sexuality does not belong in the Parade of Lights...

    I am amazed that so many interpret this persons article as "hate"....

    This person did not say sexuality does not belong in parades in Lodi. Did not say this group is not welcome in Lodi.

    Just stated that a group that is only a group because of its sexuality, does not belong in this particular parade.

    A counter argument was made in a different letter that stated it is time for diversity to come to Lodi.

    Based on the hate and anger that people have thrown toward Ms White, I suggest Lodi is not ready for diversity as this demonstrates intolerance for Ms White's opinion.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 6:29 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 539

    He who shalt not be named.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:23 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...You are right, of course. I will start immediately.

    Thank you Mr Lucas. Your lack of interaction will be a blessing.[thumbup]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:22 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Andy Crowder on Darrell Baumbach:
    I refuse to interact with him. If everyone did that, the fun would be gone for him.

    I sincerely am thankful that Mr Crowder does not interact with me. I do not post to interact. I post to share my opinions.

    If Mr Crowder thinks it is :fun" to interact with liberals, he is mistaken. In fact, it would be much more fun to express my opinion without having to correct the common distortions that people like Mr Lucas and Heuer so often make.

    So I hope Lucas, Heuer, Bobin, Chang and the rest of the liberal gang do as Mr Crowder suggest. I invite you to follow Mr Crowder's lead and stop interacting with me.

    Then the fun for me would begin. Thank you for the suggestion!
    [thumbup][

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:27 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Jerome says:

    My faith in God and Jesus Christ teaches me that homosexual behavior is wrong;

    I wish you would quit putting words in Jesus's mouth. He said nothing about homosexuality. Also the idea that you in any way endorse or live by the ideas that Jesus spoke of is laughable and is insulting to any rational mind

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:15 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    I am not sure God expects and demands obedience but that is without a doubt what the leaders and those who finance many religions expects and demands. Over the centuries the have resorted to every form of torture and evil to enforce that obedience

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:55 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Andy Crowder on Darrell Baumbach:
    I refuse to interact with him. If everyone did that, the fun would be gone for him. The News-Sentinel does not realize that many who would post here are turned away by his trolling, thereby reducing their advertising income. They give him permission to stalk and harass the other users of their website. It's bad business. No matter what he posts, do not validate his efforts with a response.

    You are right, of course. I will start immediately.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:23 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:22 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:17 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:16 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    [thumbup]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:11 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Andy you speak volumns for alot of people here as does John. Many people that use to post here don''t show up any more. Thats just fewer people to see the Wine and Roses or Heritage Oaks ads as you come in They can't be to happy about that. Geez if darrell let we might get a Monday paper again with the rise in LNS revenues.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:50 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    darrell continues to feign ignorance in the postings of which he has actively participated. He joined a chorus of anti gay comments today and yesterday and now pretends ignrance. It is sad for him to be such a war declaring hateful man.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:35 am on Fri, Dec 14, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    [thumbup]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:03 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    The answer is obedience. This is what God not only expects of us, he demands it.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:01 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Ms. Peters, those of us with more years behind us than in front have stories about our lives. If I began to tell you of my life, it would not only make your skin crawl, you would also think me a liar. So I won't even try.

    First, I never wrote anything against those people on or around the float. You're reading into my words and thoughts things that are simply not true. It seems to be your hatred for your own father that has you lashing out at me right now. Even the name “Jerome” has you feeling such hatred. But I'll take it on the chin just fine. You should also know that I've known quite a few homosexual people, one of which was a teacher where I went to school many years ago. From him I learned to love music and when I saw him a few years ago back east, it was one of the most wonderful reunions I've ever had. You've made me out to be a monster who hates homosexuals. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    All I've written here is that I don't believe a Christmas Light Parade should have a float that promotes homosexuality. My faith in God and Jesus Christ teaches me that homosexual behavior is wrong; that it’s sinful. In all of the posts I've provided here, I've already answered your questions. So I will not repeat myself.

    I'm sorry you've had such pain and suffering in your life; but please know that you're not alone. I've endured pain and suffering ever since I was a very little boy. But through my faith in God I know that He has my back and that one day I will share eternity with Him without the pain and suffering. This is what gives me hope today.

    I make you sick; you hate me - that's ALL on you; and you call me hateful. You don't even know me and yet you've given me all that power? I find that simply amazing. In spite of apparently losing your faith at 26, I will pray for you - that you will find peace and not have such hatred and loathing for people you don't even know.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:48 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Crowder stated...It's unfathomable to me that the letter writer and many who have posted here see some happy kids on a float and can only think about sex acts.

    You have an active imagination. How did you draw that conclusion?

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 9:25 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 244

    I refuse to interact with him. If everyone did that, the fun would be gone for him. The News-Sentinel does not realize that many who would post here are turned away by his trolling, thereby reducing their advertising income. They give him permission to stalk and harass the other users of their website. It's bad business. No matter what he posts, do not validate his efforts with a response.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 8:49 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 244

    It's unfathomable to me that the letter writer and many who have posted here see some happy kids on a float and can only think about sex acts. It says a lot about your prurient fixations. Were there no merry opposite sex couples on any of the floats? If you suspected they were married, did you fantasize about their sex life too? If there had been a float from a mothers' group or the pregnancy resource center would that be advertising sex? After all, those women clearly had been having a rather productive sex life of late and flaunting it to boot. And horrors, some might not even be married. Most of the church floats, the parochial school floats, and the Boy Scouts entry could clearly be labeled as heterosexual only participants. The scouts and some of those schools will not even admit the children of LGBT families. Why is it that you see straight folks as multifaceted individuals, but gay people are nothing but sex objects????? Again, the research is very clear about why some people are so strident in their condemnation of the LGBT community--latent same sex attractions of their own.

     
  • Sophonda Peters posted at 8:44 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Sophonda Posts: 5

    Mr. Kinderman, you have advised me to educate myself?
    I will tell you about my education, Jerome Kinderman.
    I will also apologize to you for saying you did not see the float if you will state here that you saw it and you tell us what sinful immoral things you saw this youth group engage in. I don't have a lot of time to write and blog tonight, I have 3 ravenous teenagers to feed. 2 are ours, one is a long term visitor.

    Mr. Kinderman, I was raised in the Lutheran faith and we did not miss a week going to church. I believed in my faith until I was 26 years old. Then my world changed. My younger brother Kevin. I was his Sophie and he was my KD. We have a wonderful brother between us but KD and I had a bond. A look could tell a joke between us. KD was wonderful. He lit up every room he entered. He was shy but he was so witty and sweet and beautiful and considerate and sensitive. He told we when he was in 6th grade some kids were being mean to him. They wouldn't let him play with them and a few of them started pushing him and tripping him in the lunch line and on the playground. I was furious when he told me. Our mother talked with the assistant principal but it made the boys mad and it got worse. KD was not big, by 6th grade he was so thin. He would come to my room and talk and cry. He didn't know why boys who had once been his friends, who ate in our house and came to our birthdays now bullied him. They told him to get lost and 'go home little girl'.

    KD never got big, instead he studied. He was so smart. He kept his humor. In high school he started to melt under it. The bullying got worse. A study group made him their project to torment while they quoted bible verses and called him names. They would actually hide around corners and wait for him and they would hit him on the head with their bibles. Once hit him across the face and gave him a bloody nose.

    In his junior year KD came out to me, when I was 26. We cried happy tears and worried tears. He was so afraid. we sat on my bed forever that night. We were even closer after that. I begged him to wait and not tell our dad yet. It is a sickening irony that our dad's name was Jerry, "Jerome". He is deceased.

    Dad was furious when KD told him a few weeks after he told me. He was livid. He actually picked KD up and put him on the porch with only a paper bag of clothes. That night was the last time our father ever saw KD. My sweet sensitive brother was destroyed by this final rejection. The last time I saw him the light had gone from his eyes. Six days after our father threw him out, KD entered the garage while no one else was there and he hanged himself. The day KD died it was as if I woke up from a dream and I saw clearly that those school boys were not quoting the book of truth from an all loving god. They were using a man made book to excuse their hatred. My father's self important words of righteousness sounded exactly like the words written here by Jerome Kinderman. The judgment, the rejection is all the same to me, just from a different Jerome. They are too dirty to be allowed in church, says Mr. Kinderman. They are immoral, bad kids on that float, they are dishonest he said. They are somehow evil and they should have been banned from the festivities.

    The guest at our table tonight will sit in the chair he has sat in for almost 5 months since the night he came out to his religious parents. It is a circle. It is a loop.
    I may not return to this blog, because the hateful things you write frankly make me sick. I have have had an education in the things you teach.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:18 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    'Mike stated... I'm wondering why the idea keeps being promoted here, and other places, regarding the supposed assault on "Christmas".


    Mike... Even a blind man could see what you can not... Maybe ... can you please explain what you mean by the word "Christmas".

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:47 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    I cannot speak for God but this is what I believe. In every moment of every day we have only two choices. Act out of love or act out of fear. I think he would have us act out of love. That opinion and $3 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:33 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    You are a lot taller than you think you are. Life is good.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 6:32 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Now I've never asked this question before on a forum like this, but I'm really interested in knowing your answer. First, it's intended for those who actually believe in God, although I'm sure there'll be others who will chime in with their opinion - and that's just fine.

    What is it that God expects of us beyond anything else?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:25 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    [thumbup]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 6:22 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Interestingly Mr. Thompson you leave out the rest of the story. After admonishing those who would condemn this woman for adultery, Jesus said to her: "Go and sin no more." (John 8:1-11) It was a command from Christ - not a mere suggestion.

    This is the point of it all. We are to be as Christ-like as possible. Will we ever be without sin while we're on this side of death? No, that's not possible. But once we accept the gift of salvation, we are expected to sin as little as possible. I'm not condemning anyone here. But I am pointing out that because of what I believe, I find such a float in a Christmas Light Parade to be offensive to me. If it doesn't offend you (whoever "you" may be) then fine - there's nothing I can do about that.

    No matter what some think, homosexuality is considered sinful behavior. The Bible is clear on that issue. The fact that Christ didn't enumerate every single thing that would be considered sinful doesn't change that fact. Now you may want it to be true, but it is not. But this only applies to those who accepted the Gift.

    The thing with the Bible and what we consider to be Christianity is that life following the teachings of Christ is not easy (I wrote that before below). But we Christians are judged even here on Earth by the fruit we bear (Matthew 7:16).

    For those of you who believe that Jesus was all goody-goody, I'd suggest you read the book titled, "No More Christian Nice Guy" by Paul Coughlin. It points out very well who Christ was during his few years teaching and preaching on Earth and how we who purport to believe in Him are expected to behave.

    Finally, if you simply disagree with what I believe, then you're free to believe whatever you choose. But what I won't do is compromise my core beliefs - ever.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:20 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1334

    I'm wondering why the idea keeps being promoted here, and other places,
    regarding the supposed assault on "Christmas". Seems this time of the year, all the conservatives are talking about are a case here at a school, or a place somewhere else where a cashier says they were told to say "happy hollidays" rather than the traditional yuletide good by of "Merry Christmas". Last week on his anemic radio show, Mike Gallagher was up in arms about a story where, the gist of it was, someone was "told" they couldn't say Merry Christmas.

    So there. One story. Almost 300 million people in America in 50 states and you can find one story. Even Darrell could only managed to cite one story that was 3 years old (with an update in 2011).

    Now some of you all are arguing about the inclusion of a float in a mediocre parade that had gay men and women (or girls and boys) on it who some here are perceiving was actually a recruiting tool to get more people into the "gay lifestyle" I presume.

    I'm wondering why, in a town so anti-Christian, that there was police participation in crowd control and traffic (as well as Partners and Cadets). Does someone actually know that the police department was paid to supply law and traffic enforcement? If not, you apparently have the city of Lodi underwriting a "parade of lights" which no one, unless they are truly dumb, knows is actually a "Christmas Parade".

    I'm wondering why, in a town that is anti-Christian, no one has complained about the lighting of the tree in front of city hall like has been done for some time. How about the tree at the end of the post office parking lot?

    As to the notion (and weak extension) of the idea that if you are liberal, or are of some other faith that does not celebrate Christmas, or you just don't like Christmas, or your a public employee, and as such, you condem all celebrations of Christmas, that you should treat it like any other day.... teachers don't make the school calendars, nor do the employees of the Department of Motor Vehicles, or the employees of any state or municipal diety. We can't come to work simply because it's a day off. Apparently lost on even the most offended at any "attack on Christmas", is that besides being a state and federal holiday, it is also a religous holiday, and as such, most state and local (probably federal as well) contracts have written articles agreed upon by union and management, that religous holidays are days off, much like Good Friday.

    Fröhliche Weihnachten to all, including those on the LGBT float (which I didn't see because I left to early). And even to all of our Christian participants here and elsewhere. Even to those who don't celebrate Christmas because they are of a different faith, such as Judaism or Buddhism. Or maybe they just don't like Christmas.

     
  • Sam Heller posted at 6:15 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Sam Heller Posts: 176

    Taylor, great comment. Sounds like you have a wonderful granddaughter.

    As a Christian I do believe in Christ's teachings ... Love God with your whole heart and love your neighbor as yourself.

    This parade is not a religious event. It is an event to celebrate our town. I love our diversity and believe we should celebrate our community with love, warm hearts and well-wishes.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:13 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    [thumbup]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:12 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    [lol]

     
  • taylor brown posted at 5:12 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    tay Posts: 2

    I was waiting to see if I would respond to to all the comments made on the Rainbow float.My 16 year old granddaughter made me feel 2 inches tall as a Christian I have my beliefs but when I was very upset when one of the young ladies said hello to her by name.My granddaughter said "CHILL SHE WAS IN MY FRESHMAN MATH CLASS! WAS IT NOT YOU WHO SAID MAKE FRIENDS WITH ALL!" .at that point no matter what.. live by what your heart says and.not what your neighbors whisper ..
    .


    .

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:24 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    The Tea Party people like the LBGT people are members of our community. They both should be able to celebrate the season by having a float in the parade. It is about the community coming together celebrating the season with respect for each other.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 4:00 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    "What exactly does the sexual preference and behaviors of anyone have to do with the celebration of Christmas or city pride?"

    Kim, what does a float sponsered by the Lodi Tea Party have to do with Christmas??


    [huh]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 3:58 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    Sounds like sour grapes. Again.

    [beam]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 3:56 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    "The Lodi Tea Party, who participated in the Parade for the last 3 years, was not sent an invitation this year to participate"

    Sounds like sour grapes!

    [beam]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 3:38 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Mr. Marty, while you believe this is not just a matter of faith, please understand that as far as I am concerned that's all it is. I have nothing against these people - nothing at all. Nowhere in my posts here or anywhere else or in the way I conduct my life have I at any time attacked or otherwise disparaged them. The foundation of my opinion rests within the Holy Bible and its teachings. But as you can see from the responses here, others constantly attempt to transform what I believe to be something it's not. This is what consumes them; this is what angers them; this is why they hate me so much. It's because I am not afraid to stand up for what I believe without sinking to their level.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:34 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    It was not promoting sexual activity. It was about people not being ashamed of who they are. It was about LBGT people just being part of the community which they are. What you are upset about is that you think they should stay in the closet with all that implies.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:12 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Darrell said:
    I think Ms Witt misses the point. Most are not saying this particular float was rude or disgusting. This float was a political statement without doubt.

    I see your point. They should get back in the closet where they belong. How dare they come together to celebrate with their fellow citizens by putting a float in a community parade. What do they think they are? A welcome part of the community?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:01 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Darrell said:
    Mr Lucas stated...Men who thought that way lit fires and burned people to death and did it out of "Love".
    Absurdity in motion... where does he come up with these bizarre conclusions... my guess, Daily Kos... a sample post that may shed light on what influences his thinking was posted there...

    You then somehow connected My PTSD issues with your absurd argument. The fact is that religious fanatics over the centuries have killed and tortured others that did not subscribe to their ideas. It happens with all religions. Look at Jerome's spiritual brothers in islam. They too know what God wishes are and that homosexuality is an affront to God. They can act violently on it while our home grown Christian Taliban is handcuffed by the 1st Amendment which frees us from the tyranny of those who think they know God. It was a great gift from our founding fathers.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:40 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Darrell said:
    a sample post that may shed light on what influences his thinking was posted there...
    The interesting thing that it really helped with PSTD sleep issues after awhile. When I put on the mask there is a sub conscious feeling that it is time to sleep. It is like good marihuana it quiets the chatterbox in my head

    That comment was about putting on a mask on my cpap machine. I have no idea what that has to with the present conversation. I am also not a marihuana user though I have tried it in long past times. The main reason I became a long haul truck driver was coming home from Vietnam I would stay up days at a time terrified of going to sleep knowing the dreams that would come. In trucking you drive till you are so tired exhaustion puts you to sleep. I spent over 25 years not knowing what the problem was or even what PTSD was. I just dealt with it. In 2004 I spent a year in a program that really helped control the symptoms. For you to make light of a serious problem of a fellow human being just shows what you are all about. Is there any low you will not stoop to?

     
  • Michael Thompson posted at 1:16 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    winston Posts: 97

    As for removing don't ask don't tell, speak to former Senator Scott Brown who has served in the Armed Forces and still has close ties to the military. He will vouch that the military is just fine.


    For precedent, I guess you can ask veterans how morale and preparation changed when President Truman integrated our armed forces. If we were back in that time period, Darrell and Jerome would be opposing integration as it would be harmful to our soldiers readiness.


    You have to stop eating so many crickets Darrell!

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 12:32 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 469

    If anyone really reads this letter without flying off the homosexual handle, the writer actually makes more of an issue about ANY sexual behavior being inappropriate and she is quite accurate that in San Francisco there are naked people doing very illicit acts in public. "Since when is it considered good form to flaunt the sexual behaviors of ANYONE in front of a child, even if they are doing it under the name "Rainbow" She also wrote "What exactly does the sexual preference and behaviors of anyone have to do with the celebration of Christmas or city pride? " I am sorry- this letter does not sound anything like what the writers here are alluding to and becoming hysterical about. I agree with her than any float promoting ANY sexual activity is not appropriate.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 12:28 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    “I submit it is you Ms Peters that is being hateful”

    Baloney.

    I submit instead…

    It’s just a couple of “old angry white guys”…

    Who haven’t been to a Christmas parade in years…

    Just doing what they best.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:25 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Lucas stated...Men who thought that way lit fires and burned people to death and did it out of "Love".

    Absurdity in motion... where does he come up with these bizarre conclusions... my guess, Daily Kos... a sample post that may shed light on what influences his thinking was posted there...

    The interesting thing that it really helped with PSTD sleep issues after awhile. When I put on the mask there is a sub conscious feeling that it is time to sleep. It is like good marihuana it quiets the chatterbox in my head

    Join the War on Thinking. Watch Fox News- John Lucas

    by Jlukes on Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 07:12:50 AM PST

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 12:21 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    “because of my faith”

    I think somebody spends too much time watching…

    Satellite TV preachers and broadcast originating from…

    Texas and Louisiana!!


    [wink]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:17 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Clearly Mr Lucas needs reading glasses... I previously posted ...

    If this float had been in a Parade in down town Lodi for the forth of July, when floats reflecting this kind of political statement would be welcome by someone like me and others who believe in freedom of speech and rights to assemble in public.

    Unfortunately for Mr Lucas, his bigotry for conservatives blinds him to reality.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 12:16 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    “that’s all I’ve got in my quiver, Ms. Peters are my words”

    Just like a old dog on a short chain...

    All bark and no bite!!!


    [scared]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:12 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Thompson who laughingly claims"not" to be part of the McNerney ongoing campaign stated... The members of the homosexual community did not flaunt like naked homosexuals. They were simply showing their pride as a group like other local groups did in the parade.

    You clearly are attempting to confuse and distort the issue. No one came close to suggesting anyone behaved in an inappropriate way.

    The point is making political statements in a Christmas parade. you of all people, directly in politics, should understand that political statements are better suited before an election. You are consistent Mr Thompson. It appears anyone associated with McNerney takes great pride and satisfaction in distortion.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 12:10 pm on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    Bob, no beef here.

    I’m merely sharing my opinion and having a little fun.

    Perhaps, you should first read Leviticus completely…

    Then add your “relevant” and informed comments to the discussion.


    [wink]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 11:51 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    Darrell, once in a while I mock.

    But not this time...

    Mr. Chang hit the nail squarely on the head!!!


    [beam]

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 11:15 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 30

    What's your beef with old angry white guys? [Note, I don't consider myslef old. The other two, maybe.]

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 11:13 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 30

    Thomas Heuer said: "Get off everybodys holiday cuse you don't own it either".

    There are many who stand with Jerome. Your generalizations are disingenous and incorrect. It seems to me that you are implying that everyone stands with you. So not true...

    And simply becuase of the "season", we should all stop or suspend what we know to be right or wrong because you disagree? Keep going Jerome (of course I don't know where you find the time!).

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:05 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Your point is taken but I am tired of so-called Christians like Jerome injecting their faith and implying that Jesus would approve of their "values" and the things they say. You can agree with Jerome and Jerome can agree with you but to imply that God and Jesus is on his side is arrogant in the extreme. Men who thought that way lit fires and burned people to death and did it out of "Love".

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 10:04 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 469

    Right wing Christian intolerance? I think you would find a few members of the community missing the day after a display like this in Iran- a Muslim nation. And they wouldn't be off fishing.

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 9:47 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 30

    I have news for you, this is not just a "Christian" issue. That's the problem with most of you posting (both in support and opposition)...you all assume it's the 'religious right wing' that is vocal against displays like the float from the LGBT groups. How about I just think it's freakin' wrong for the LDBA to display that kind of sexulaity support. I agree with most of what Mr. Kinderman has stated and I only attend Church for other people's weddings.

    Furthermore, as Paragoris says above, the Tea Party, quite frankly, is far more important, wide-ranging and signficant to our Community than the GLBT group.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:43 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Actually, they can't ask. The only ones who have the authority to shut someone up (or down) are the moderators of this forum. Mr. Thompson's demand (not a request by any definition) could easily be considered a violation of the Rules of Conduct.

     
  • Michael Thompson posted at 9:41 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    winston Posts: 97

    The members of the homosexual community did not flaunt like naked homosexuals. They were simply showing their pride as a group like other local groups did in the parade.


    In Lodi as well across the world, we will find homosexuals in Christian churches as well as other religious traditions. These individuals should be treated with respect and dignity.

    As for the Bible and traditions, Jesus threw society on its head and challenged the religious teachings of the day. For example, he confronts a public stoning of a women and challenges the religious leaders and others who were taking part in the stoning and says that only those who have NOT sinned had the right to throw stones. Hasn't everyone on Earth sinned at one time or another?

    I bet Darrell and Jerome are some of the same people that said that removing the ban from allowing gays to serve openly in the military would lead to disorder in the ranks. The last time I checked the US still had the best military in the world, and there was no chaos when the policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" ended.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:39 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    I'm sorry, Ms. Erickson but I would never eject a homosexual person from any church of which I might be a member. But what you have to understand is that my faith believes that homosexuality is sinful. The fact that you don't see it that way is your opinion and I wouldn't take away your right to think that way. So please don't attempt to take it away from me.

    As far as membership in a "Christian" church, no - practicing homosexuals would have no place on the rolls just as those willfully engaging in other sinful behavior would be denied such membership. These are the terms of our faith - that we understand that ALL of us are sinful - it's part of our nature due to the fall in Eden. And while you and others might believe that just because Christ didn't specifically address the issue of homosexuality, it is still a sin. Just the same as adultery, murder, pedophilia and even divorce. Yes - even divorce. As a divorced man, there are certain positions in my church that are unattainable to me - and I accept that because of what I've done. But where I differ now is that if I ever have the opportunity to marry again, divorce will not be acceptable to me. But if I were to marry and then divorce, I would expect to be removed from membership.

    Being a follower of Christ is not just a Sunday exercise. It’s a hard road to follow. I’m doing the best that I can.

    That's what I believe Ms. Erickson. Does this make better sense to you even though you choose not to believe in it?

    Finally, while you believe that heterosexual people never have to be afraid of discrimination and even violence as a group, Christians are quickly becoming such. Just read some of the comments here. You even seem to think I should change what I believe to fit your idea of what a Christian should be and what kind of sin we should discard. So who’s being just a tad disingenuous now?

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:23 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Ms. Peters, where did I admit that I did not see these people? You need to make sure that the things you post are accurate. Now as far as your other questions about me and why I believe the way I do, I've already answered them in the various posts I've contributed down below. I really don't want to repeat myself simply because others won't take the time to read and try to understand.

    As far as being infiltrated is concerned, I stand by those words firmly. You might not see it here, Ms. Peters but we are at war. There’s a war on morality and decency. I’m on one side – and there are certainly those who believe that if it feels good, then just go ahead and do it. I cannot subscribe to such a notion and will continue to stand against it.

    Societies that deny God eventually die away. Perhaps it is time for America to die – but not as long as I have something to say about it. And that’s all I’ve got in my quiver, Ms. Peters are my words.

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 9:22 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 469

    What do you expect in a state that has just introduced AB5 (Ammiano- D- San Francisco) to allow homeless people in California to urinate on the sidewalk? As far as the LDBP who organizes the Parade, they apparently pick and choose who they think should be in the Parade of Lights. They apparently think Gay Pride is more wholesome and appropriate for this event than a group like the Lodi Tea party, who promotes fiscal responsibility, limited government and free enterprise. The Lodi Tea Party, who participated in the Parade for the last 3 years, was not sent an invitation this year to participate. I guess we know where our priorities are in Lodi.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:16 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    The idea that you are in any way a follower of Jesus is laughable on it face. He had very strong views on how we should live our lives. You do not agree with almost any of them

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:11 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    Your faith is the same faith as those who crucified Jesus.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:08 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Actually, Iran wouldn't be a good fit. Like quite a few contributors here obviously do, Iran hates Christians too. There's no hate emanating from me. I've only stated my opinion that just so happens to be in line with the author of the letter and a few posters as well. The harshness of the posts aren't mine - they're others who seem to have no tolerance for someone else's beliefs beyond their own. I am only voicing MY beliefs; not against anyone else's.

     
  • CATHERINE ERICKSON posted at 9:04 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    FRITZY9 Posts: 17

    Let's see, I raised my two daughters in the Lodi area, I started my 25 year old business here, I shop her, I love the feel of a small country atmosphere town also. But I am not a bigot. Just the fact that you have a problem with a gay pride parade float is your problem. Open your heart if you say you are the church going person you are and let all people of all faiths, colors, genders, and sexual orientation in. Heterosexual people never have to be afraid of discrimination and even violence as a group! The LGBT community does! The more people know and understand others not like them the more peace and understanding there will be. There was a gay couple at our oldest daughter's wedding in October and several of the the wedding party wanted to go into Lodi and have some fun at some of the downtown bars and clubs. My daughters know well the reputation of the Lodi area and how "others' unlike the accepted norm can be treated. They made sure that the young male gay couple went no where near Lodi bars for fear they would get beaten up. This is the ugly truth about Lodi. Any activity that sheds more light on the intolerance in this area is welcome, in my book. Lean forward!

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:02 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Ms. Peters, I have nothing against homosexual people. But I do have something against homosexuality. There is a big difference. Also, as another here claims that God hates homosexuals, that is not true either. God believes homosexuality to be sinful; it is an affront to Him. While I will most certainly not entertain discussing my faith here beyond what I just wrote, I will state without reservation that it is because of my faith - what I've chosen to believe - that brings me to these conclusions.

    You, of course are free to offer your own opinion on the matter because I have no right to keep you from doing so and I wouldn’t even if I did have that right, but I would advise you to perform a little more research on such matters before discussing things you know little about.

    Now as far as the opinion I wrote that includes the "mafia," you might take the time to notice that those words were not mine originally - someone else here posted them down near the beginning of the thread. I'm curious as to why you didn't jump in there to voice your outrage. Most curious indeed.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 8:52 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    I'm truly sorry. While I do stand by my words within this particular post, I must admit that they aren't all mine. If a few of you would have noticed the quote marks surrounding and within it, I actually used the sentiment from someone at the beginning of this thread. Jay Samone offered the very same opinion way down there at the beginning. Notice the response when she offered it - or should I say the lack of response.

    It was actually a sort of test. Most contributors here who don't like me (putting it mildly) are quick to blast me for my opinions - and they are just that: MY opinions. But when others voice the exact same thoughts they're left pretty much alone.

    Now it's not that I don't enjoy a good debate - I do! I just felt the need to expose some of you for who and what you appear to be. Naturally, because this is a forum where I can safely assume very few of us know each other outside of it, I'm not surprised.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:33 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    After reading Jerome's and Darrell's comments on this subject it seems they are not comfortable with all these gays showing up in public. I think you both should consider moving to Iran. The rulers there agree with everything you have said on this subject. I think you both would be happier living with like and being ruled by those who share your philosophy when it comes to sex. Jerome could apply for a position with the religious police. He would fit right in. Just a thought

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:24 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Andrew are you mocking yourself by repeating yourself? Or are you quoting yourself by repeating what you said?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:23 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2726

    You just do not get it Ms Peters. God hates Homosexuals. That is why she made so many of them. Why would God deny the pleasure Jerome gets to feel when he looks down on someone who is different than him? If it was not for hours and hours Jerome spends feeling superior he would have to look at the things that Jesus actually talked about. He just does not have enough hours in the day to think about that feeding the poor and helping the sick nonsense. I can hear your bleeding heart Liberal question now. If Jesus is Jerome's savior why is he always basing his religious views on abortion and gays which Jesus never talked about and not on loving one another, judge not lest ye be judged, and helping the poor and the sick which was about all he talked about. Good Question. I have no answer and neither does Jerome

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:15 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Poor Mr Chang... does not get it... I have moved on and actively participating in the next election coming. As Obama has demonstrated, the campaign never ends, does it.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:10 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    more mocking Mr Chang... I was hoping your hate and animosity would diminish but obviously, it has not. [thumbdown]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:09 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Ms Peters stated…You also said they had no business being in your type of Christmas parade. Such a sad, mean spirited thing to write! I can only imagine what you would say in private and not subject to censorship and public ridicule

    Christianphobia and intolerance is alive and well in Lodi. Ms Peters obviously has no tolerance for Christians. To state that a Christmas parade is secular is ridiculous. I am not religious but even I can comprehend… If she wants a secular parade I would support that. But do not call it a Christmas parade…call it a holiday parade to show respect to Christians.

    If one looks at the origin of Christmas, Christmas , meaning "Christ's Mass") is an annual commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ and a widely observed holiday,

    It is central to the Christian liturgical year, it closes the Advent season and initiates the twelve days of Christmastide. Christmas is a civil holiday and is an integral part of the Christmas and holiday season.

    Mr Kinderman is a Christian and of course would be offended if a parade that is classified as a “Christmas” parade did not reflect Christianity. If one is secular, they should respect a person who has Christian beliefs. It is the ultimate insult to state following his own faith is hateful. I submit it is you Ms Peters that is being hateful.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 7:38 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Well said Ms Peters
    Thank you

     
  • Sophonda Peters posted at 5:12 am on Thu, Dec 13, 2012.

    Sophonda Posts: 5

    Mr. Kinderman, I am sorry I apparently misread your name. I would like to blame auto correct on the iPad but this one was my mistake.

    What do you feel is wrong with homosexual people? I read that you think they are immoral, are they bad people? Do you feel they have made a bad choice? Are they defective? Near the end of your last blog, you said homosexual people are like the mafia, who will gang up and shun you. Isn't that exactly what you are doing and what people like you have been doing for years? You are employing weaponized religion to demonize and shun people who you admittedly did not see, you do not know them, but you are incensed that they showed themselves in your town. Earlier you said you felt infiltrated or something.

    You also said they had no business being in your type of Christmas parade. Such a sad, mean spirited thing to write! I can only imagine what you would say in private and not subject to censorship and public ridicule. The way I see it the Light Parade is a community secular holiday celebration for everyone, for the stores and plumbers and clubs, who decorate their trucks and cars and jeeps and farm tractors and trailers. For marching bands and yes, for politicians to ride in convertibles and honk their car horn and wave and throw candy canes. Groups ride on the trailers with rock music blaring and disco music and Manheim Steamroller Christmas carols blasting so loud you can hear it for blocks. I wonder if you have ever actually seen the Light Parade. It is NOT solemn or holy. It is loud and bright and fun. Now you are blaming the parade organizers for letting the mafia in because this group of gay kids don't want to live miserable lives in the closet? You did not see them, you do not know them, but you hate them enough to call them horrible names and want them barred. My question is why?

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 11:19 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Horse pucky Jerome
    Just as you say people don't have authority to control posts YOU DON'T OWN THE PARADE. Get off everbodys holiday cause you don't own it either. It is not a political agende just because you determine it to be. Your predjudice plain and simple and want to bully your opinion regardless of what the rest of the community believes. You profess a christian faith but you are a poor representative of christian charity. The students are fine. Geez have you ever had a joyous moment?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:53 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2963

    Is it mocking when you claim I said, "Lots of mythical deities have been granted that day (xmas) as their imaginary birthday, Jesus only one of the many." despite the fact that it was Mr.Rick Houdack who said it?
    [sleeping]

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 9:41 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 244

    So much for loving the "sinner."

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:34 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    I believe homosexuality to be wrong, Ms. Peters. Beyond that the "[LGBT] have a political agenda; they are not a school, a business, a non-profit, etc and that is the criteria the Parade uses to determine who gets a spot every year. They had and have no business having a float in this particular parade, but I have a feeling the committee felt forced to allow the float for fear of repercussions. The LGBT is similar to the mafia in that if you don't do what they want, they threaten to 'shun' you and your business and badmouth you to any and everyone who will hear, regardless of whether the information they spew is accurate."

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:27 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Power to the people

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:19 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Thank you Brian
    Most appreciated.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:17 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Ms Peters
    Its simple. They exist. Thats his beef.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:13 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    One can ask since it has ben asked of Darrell many times since he only practices harrassment under false pretences. He seldom offers something of substance and only acts as your wing man in a tag team duo.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 8:18 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    "Leviticus"

    Jerry knows Leviticus well.

    Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

    Leviticus also goes on to condone human sacrifice, slavery, torture, subjugation of women, murder, discrimination, etc.

    Don't eat the shellfish. Or the sausage.

    Thousands of words in the Bible about food and food preparation.

    Less then two dozen about homosexuality.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 8:16 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    "Leviticus"

    One of the original "old angry white guys".

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:10 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Jay when you have been persecuted all your life as gays have been not tomention racial discrimination, when daily you face a couple of good ole boys wanting to tie you to their pick up truck and drag you to death you tend to not want to mix much. Your point is misguided and misinformed.

     
  • Sophonda Peters posted at 7:58 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Sophonda Posts: 5

    Mr. Kindman has told us that the Lodians of the Rainbow Flag Project are immoral, that their attendence was inappropriate and it would be better to cancel future parades than to allow them back, but he has never told us what he saw them do. Where were you seated, or standing, Mr. Kindman? What did they do to cause you to call for banning them?

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 7:55 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    MR Kinderman says "compels us to hate sin, but love the sinner". You first identify the LGBT group as sinners then mock them with exagerated (false) claims of widening the particip[ation by inviting SF participation thus insulting a whole city. Disrespect is not love. Mocking is not love. What you are engaged in now is mocking. Its not reaching out, its not love. You should know what you are saying and know it is a mockery.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 7:19 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 244

    Kinderman asks where the bible condemns mixed races marriages. These are the verses that Christian churches in the south used to discriminate against such couples:

    Genesis 28:1
    Leviticus 19:19
    Deuteronomy 7:2-3
    Deuteronomy 22:9
    Deuteronomy 23:2
    Jeremiah 13:23
    Acts 17:24-26

    Just this year, a church in the south refused to marry a mixed race couple, citing these same verses. Of course, freedom of religion allows the church to refuse sacraments for any reason desired, but there was so much public outcry that the church was shamed into walking back their stance.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 6:26 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    To my knowledge, the Bible offers no prohibition against marrying people with different color skin from one's own. If you have evidence to the contrary please let me know.

     
  • brian ratto posted at 6:25 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    brian ratto Posts: 8

    I would like to cordially invite you all to a meeting of the Lodi Rainbow Project.
    We are having a meeting this Sunday December 16, 2012 at 1:00pm at the Lodi Public Library, in the conference room to the left of the main doors.

    Here is a link to the Facebook event for the meeting.
    https://www.facebook.com/events/140289056120585/?context=create
    We meet the third Sunday of every month at the Public Library.
    All are welcome to attend.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:22 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    Darrell, the election is over.

    Accept the results and move on!!

    [beam]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 6:19 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Mr. Thompson - while you may think you speak for a large number of people on this website, you don't have the authority to shut anyone up. If you believe anyone's comments violate the Rules of Conduct, then by all means report them through the system already in place. To "yell" "SHUT UP" at least in my opinion is just as offensive as you might believe his comments to be.

     
  • Michael Thompson posted at 5:59 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    winston Posts: 97

    Jerome,
    I bet if we were to go back and time you would be part of the group that opposed interracial marriage as it was not in "God's plan".

    Thank goodness the Supreme Court upheld the rights of people of different races to get married.


     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:57 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    The beat goes on. The beat goes on.

    La De Da De Day. La De Da De Da....

     
  • Michael Thompson posted at 5:54 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    winston Posts: 97

    Darrell,
    I used to think your comments were funny, but as the election is over your remarks are getting stale. If you have any remarks that confirm that I am linked to the McNerney campaign or his staff, go ahead and show them.


    Until then, SHUT UP! I think I speak for a large number of people on this website.


     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:54 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    Jerry's vengeful God, no doubt will be collecting.

    Payment in full.

    Cash only.

    [wink]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:08 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Childish mocking... [thumbdown]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:04 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Nice Mr Heuer... please do articulate what the meaning of Christmas for all Christians should be... Obvious, Christians need your input so they can understand your wisdom....

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:01 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Jay, Mr Heuer is not interested in truth or solutions. Your points are well made and make sense.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:55 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Thompson of the McNerney campaign stated... .Ms White,
    You are inaccurate as the liberal city of San Francisco being a city that tolerated naked homosexuals. The City council passed an ordinance that banned public nudity as this behavior was detrimental to their neighborhoods and families.

    Amusing that anyone would perceive that just because SF passes an ordinance by their city council that anyone living in the city would care and follow what the law says. San Francisco is famous world wide for ignoring laws on the books.

    Even though there is an ordinance on nudity in SF, nudity still is allowed at San Francisco's street fairs, festivals, parades and beaches (which are under federal control). The ordinance is instead targeting an increase in daily occurrences of nudists around the district.


     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 4:53 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Yes, and its those changes that have many of us concerned. We used to be a relatively conservative community steeped in faith-based attitudes. Just look at all the houses of worship along aptly-named "Church Street."

    This year for the first time we've been treated to a purely homosexual float in the Christmas Light Parade. Of course I've never understood the need to celebrate my sexuality or put it on display for all to see. In my mind it defies logic.

    But as a nation sinks lower into the morass of immorality, things once determined to be wrong are suddenly right and things before thought to be right are now wrong. There is payment for such changes - and one day the bill will become due.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 4:15 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    "childish temper tantrum"

    Bada Bing Bada Boom

    [thumbup]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 4:06 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    [sleeping][yawn][sleeping]

    ZZZZZZzzzzzz......

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 4:00 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    "I've been thinking about it"

    Let it go, Dude.

    I used to think your "Brother in Arms" was the compulsive one...

    Now I'm not so sure??

    [beam]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 3:52 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    [lol]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 3:45 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    What did I offer that was offensive or otherwise "anti gay?" In no way am I angry or hateful. My values are based upon the Holy Bible that compels us to hate sin, but love the sinner. I believe I'm well within that doctrine; and have always tried to behave as such.

    Now, would there be any real problem with the idea I set forth? If so, why? After all, there's this ever-growing desire to not only separate religion from state, but to eradicate it altogether. Indeed: http://tinyurl.com/a24c8cd pretty well explains it all, does it not?

    Reactionary? No - reality.

    And since the Light Parade was happy to include a LGBT float, why not invite their S.F. brothers and sisters to join the party next year?

    What's wrong with these ideas?

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 3:34 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 244

    Self-loathing.

    Research shows that the most virulent form of homophobia manifests in individuals with unacknowledged same sex attractions.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120406234458.htm

     
  • Daryn Alsup posted at 3:22 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    DA2005 Posts: 8

    I could both agree and disagree Jay. I lived in Lodi - and still consider it my hometown even though I now reside in a small city in Oregon.

    The reason for formulating a group separate from the majority isn't because they want to be a highlight - it's because alone, they are targets. Being highlights or "drawing attention" as you put it, is a repercussion yes - but then again, if it was widely accepted in Lodi this woman wouldn't have posted an article - and people wouldn't agree with her ;).

    Sexual preference doesn't make one special. In fact it makes you feel different than anyone else - something that some people commit suicide over - an experience I know too well. I am waiting for the day when my family members aren't looked upon differently just because of their "sexual preference" - but because of things they've done and the heart they've put into those things.

    Sexual preference is just a word people use to make a difference between people. Gay - straight or whatever. When that phrase has no place in a sentence any longer - that maybe the day when things don't seem so askew.

    I for one believe we should stop using the gifts God gave us - eyes and ears - to notice the differences between each of us. We were given these gifts to see how we are all alike.

     
  • cindy harris posted at 3:02 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    1prouddemocrat Posts: 4

    Lynsay, thank you. Very well said for many of us!

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 2:32 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Mr. Heuer - I don't even know why I'm responding to your post, but here goes: My comment is NOT about the floats, it is about the way the LGBT community segregates themselves from others. By segregating yourself, you draw more unwanted attention than positive attention, thus creating this "myth" that there's some sort of "fight" to keep on fighting. That would be your automatic opposition.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 2:18 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 539

    Reactionary much?

     
  • Michael Thompson posted at 2:17 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    winston Posts: 97

    Ms White,
    You are inaccurate as the liberal city of San Francisco being a city that tolerated naked homosexuals. The City council passed an ordinance that banned public nudity asthis behavior was detrimental to their neighborhoods and families. Who led this measure? It was homosexual parents with small children in the Noe Valley/Castro neighborhoods. These are people that are far from being affiliated with the Christian Coalition!
    You also have to come to grips that Lodi has changed over the years. As the community becomes more diverse, I am sure that it will continue to change.


     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:57 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    OK I think you have over done it sharing your anti gay views.This is just childish temper tantrum. You need to reasses what your religious values are instilling in you. Anger and hate is not in any religious doctrine.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:50 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Celebrate it your way or not at all? "Whining?" And whos the biggest whiner here? Many people have their own way of celebrating christmas and this is what gives some christians a bad name. The need to control things. Celebrate christmas your way and let others their way. As I said as long as people are celebrating they are not fighting or needing to call people names like hypocrites. And isn't thats what its about?

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:26 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    As I've been thinking about it, I have a grand idea for next December - let's make December 25th LGBT Day! That way we can transform the Parade of Lights into the LGBT Day Commemoration Parade. But we've got to act fast in this transformation. Because I say we really go for broke here. Instead of just a few home-made floats, let's get the San Francisco homosexual community involved. As most should know, they put on a first-class parade every June. I would suspect that if they knew Lodi had not only tolerated, then accepted but now embrace their lifestyle, they'd want to participate in our parade while pulling out all the stops!

    Then bring the whole family downtown to have a real celebration!! Whatta ya say? Whose in?

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:01 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Of course I meant "hypocrisy."

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:00 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Then by all means get rid of it. But you've got to actually do it. Whining about "lots of mythical deities" yet using that day as a holiday as an excuse to stay home from work is indeed the height of hypocricy. Citing "Merry 'Christ'mas" when one doesn't believe in Christ seems just a tad disingenuous, no?

    Hmm, lots more work for this president to do to transform this nation of his. But he's got the time to do it - four more years!!

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 12:35 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 146

    It was a close call, but I think we may be able to save what's left of our Republic, after being dam-near destroyed, following the hijacking by wild-eyed fundamentalists of the past few decades.

    Our Republic, as envisioned by the Founders, never included all the nonsense propounded by the paranoid fundies here. Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence, did not believe the Jesus myth and rewrote the bible to exclude all the magic, trinity and hocus pocus. He was quite outspoken on the subject. Did I mention he is the one who actually WROTE the Declaration?
    James Madison, the architect of the Constitution of the United States, ALSO did not belive in the Christian racket.

    Read the founder's actual words, they are easily found.

    People who claim this nation was founded as a Christian nation (or simpy post Faux News links), or is being lost because "Christianity is lost", are simply not being honest.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:19 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Oh I must share a video link Andrew posted yersterday on this very thread.
    Andrew stated "Lots of mythical deities have been granted that day (xmas) as their imaginary birthday, Jesus only one of the many."

    http://youtu.be/oZgT1SRcrKE
    I have to say it was one of Andrews best.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 12:17 pm on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    Mr. Baumbach, while "society" may have decided that church and state should not be unified, the Founders had no such intention. As a result, Christmas is now at the heart of our political discourse as so many choose to remove "Christ" from the banner. Naturally, I would expect all of those who do not believe in Jesus Christ and his offer of eternal life with Him to simply wake up on Tuesday, December 25th, go through their normal morning routines, go to work, and then go home. Keep those stores and other businesses open and running with a full-staff. End this mockery and sham of Christ’s birthday; hey, even believers understand that He wasn’t actually born on December 25th; it’s just a day when we commemorate his birth.

    If they want full separation, then have the intestinal fortitude to impose it upon themselves. Taking unfair advantage of Christmas is the height of hypocrisy. But I suppose without a moral compass, that should be no problem.

    I would also encourage Believers to do the same. Since we’re supposed to involve Christ throughout our everyday lives, do we really need this day off to think of His birth in that little barn in Bethlehem? Of course not. We can do that whilst standing behind our cash registers, sitting at our desks, driving our trucks or doing whatever else it is that we do to eek out our livings. In short, December 25th should just be a day like the other 364 (or 365 during leap years).

    Now, let’s add some jobs. All of those buildings throughout the country that have any religious symbols or inscriptions upon them should be modified to keep this separation going. National and state cemeteries that have headstones with the same religious symbols should be required to replace them with non-descript ones or notify the families of those buried or interred in them to have their dead moved to private cemeteries.

    If we’re going to separate – then let’s do it right!

    Ahh, but that’ll never happen and we all know why. First, most retail businesses (and virtually all of our jobs are connected to retail business) rely upon this time of year to make their money. So, without buying all of those presents along with the booze for the parties; the strings of lights; trees; ornaments; the food; and so many other things that are paid for leading up to that one day (December 25th), our economy might have to take a hard hit. Can’t have that, can we? So – please disregard everything I’ve just written – except for the part where we remove “Christ” from the whole shebang – He’s gotta go.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 11:46 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    And soon Christianity will no longer be a part of any community: http://tinyurl.com/a24c8cd.

    We're heading toward the end of what was once a great republic.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 10:45 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    “This was for the community”

    Darrell, the GLBT community is part of “our” community.

    Accept it and move on!!

    [wink]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 10:45 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    “Can we not have one month where politics are not involved?”

    Seriously??

    Darrell as long you, Jerry and “the guys” are hanging around….

    Very doubtful.

    But a nice thought, none the less!!

    [beam]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:16 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Ms Peters stated...I think this parade is put on by the Downtown business partnership isn't it? not the area churches

    Exactly! The downtown businesses should have no interest in politics in this kind of event. This was for the community. Churches are a significant part of the community. This event involves Christmas which is related to churches.

    Since our society has decided that church and state should not be unified, it would make sense that political statements in this event be eliminated since making political statements in this kind of event brings politics and church closer. There are 11 months of the year that Christmas is not part of. Can we not have one month where politics are not involved.

    I suggest November a better month as many elections and politics is on everyone's mind. Lets have a political parade then and celebrate our rights to associate politically with any group desired. Please leave Christmas alone.

     
  • Sabrina Willis posted at 9:47 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Swillis Posts: 11

    Russell- Is there a Facebook event page for the meeting on Sunday? I would love to attend and help spread the word. Let us know and keep fighting! [smile]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:44 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Jay
    If someone attends a church and has a float does this make them in opposition to others? Jeff Tillet provided a handy list of the participating floats. Are they in opposition to others on the list? To the community?

    Heres the list. You tell me where the "automatic opposition" begins and ends.
    http://www.downtownlodi.com/admin/db_files/2012%20Parade%20of%20Lights%20Line-up,%20Rules%20%20Regulations%20Packet.pdf

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:44 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Ms Witt stated...This is incredibly disappointing. Their float wasn't reflecting immaturity, inappropriate messages, or rude and disgusting conduct.

    I think Ms Witt misses the point. Most are not saying this particular float was rude or disgusting. This float was a political statement without doubt. It was to draw attention to themselves in an event that should be about giving joy to others in light of Christmas spirit. If this float had been in a Parade in down town Lodi for the forth of July, when floats reflecting this kind of political statement would be welcome by someone like me and others who believe in freedom of speech and rights to assemble in public.

    In this event, I am against any political statements no matter conservative or liberal. The idea that this is about homophobia is absurd.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:34 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    How unfortunate that the debate is about homosexuality and gay rights in this thread.
    How unfortunate that some take this opportunity to fan the flames of animosity and division as Mr Chang has decided to do....

    The issue is about politics and making political statements in this event meant to celebrate and bring joy. Politics in my view is best saved for debate type situations as rarely do political statements result in unity and love.

    Like I said, this is a timing issue. If the community desires to have political statements made by having this event, then I would insist that competing floats offering a variety of political statements be promoted.

    If we want an event that brings unity and community spirit, politics should be saved for alternate venues. This tread is evidence of my position.

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 8:23 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    I agree. There's a ton of hypocrisy in this topic. It seems like everyone wants everyone else to shut up but then they themselves are hel l bent on being heard. Heaven forbid if someone disagree with the others' beliefs.

    My question is, why would the LGBT community need to segregate themselves in the first place? That grants them an automatic opposition. Some people just don't get it.

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 8:17 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Daryn,

    I agree with your sentiment, but then it goes askew. The LGBT community wants unity, but then they segregate themselves by having a rainbow project float. It seems to me that the LGBT community intentionally segregates themselves to draw attention to themselves, when in reality, no one really cares what your sexual preference is and why wouldn't you want to celebrate Christmas with everyone else? Does your sexual preference make you special? Honey, no one's special but then we are all special in our own way. Why does the LGBT want to promote themselves as "different', when we are ALL different?

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 8:11 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Taylor,

    It's very difficult for me to understand why you consider me a bigot, when you don't even know me, or anything about me. You have 6 posts to your name here. I wonder what YOUR agenda is posting on Lodi paper when you live in San Fran.

    Aside from that, for an attorney, your argument stinks. You're looking for ignorance and bigotry in every post on this forum - especially if they don't agree with you. You can't take away or condemn someone else's beliefs, opinions, just because they don't fall in line with your own - I'm darn sure you would be angered if someone did that to you. No? For you to do that reduces your credibility. It's people like YOU who condemn someone for having an opinion different than yours and your agenda that make your movement less credible as a whole. You know how everyone eye rolls when a black man pulls the "it's the white man trying to get me down" when the reality of it is that he expects everything to be handed to him strictly based on the fact that he's black? Well that's going to become the LGBT movement in 20 yrs if people like you don't sit down and look inward and resolve their own inner conflicts and issues with others. You need to find acceptance within yourself. No one else really cares about your sexual preference. Trust. Ever wonder why you see pushback? It's because you bully people on a forum, call them names when you don't know where they stand (read my posts - I still haven't said anything about my stance aside from saying the float shouldn't have been included), and you ARE forcing your agenda on others who really don't care.

    So you need to ask yourself, what you are really looking for is for people care? Is that what's important to you - what other people think about you?

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 7:57 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 30

    Of course, anyone who has a different view is a "blow hard, ignorant bigot". Typical liberal drivel.

    Who decideds that diversity (or what kind) is the best? Ever been to Japan? It's not very diverse, but appears to function just fine. I'm not against diversity, I'm just stating do not asusme it is the best.

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 7:53 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 30

    Kind of ironic, you telling the author to keep her view private. Interesting. Maybe the LBGT crew should keep their view private?

     
  • Elizabeth Witt posted at 1:57 am on Wed, Dec 12, 2012.

    ewitt94 Posts: 2

    This is incredibly disappointing. Their float wasn't reflecting immaturity, inappropriate messages, or rude and disgusting conduct. The organization is in place for members of our community who are LGBTQ or those who support those people. It wasn't in the parade to rub it in everyone else's faces. They weren't there to cram anything down anyone's throat. They were there to show that there is a place in our community for EVERYONE, no matter what your orientation may be. The point of this group is not to flaunt what they enjoy doing "in the bedroom". Your argument is completely invalid and fairly immature. If you are going to complain about this, you might as well comment on the fact that there were Muslim members of the community in the parade and make some asinine comment about them representing terrorists (surprise...they aren't actually terrorists!).

    This town is not strictly conservative, contrary to your beliefs. And your very public display of homophobia is more shocking and disappointing than seeing a group of young people of the community reaching out and showing that they are there for others like them. And you do publicly display your sexuality by being married to/having a relationship with a man and having children with that person, and condemning people who don't share your beliefs. Everyone knows what you generally prefer in the bedroom. It isn't a secret, and it probably never was.

    I am assuming you are a Christian, as you commented on going to church and obviously celebrate Christmas. But I am a Christian too, and one thing I was taught at my church is that it ISN'T OUR PLACE to judge or condemn anyone and their faults or sins - that it is God's job to decide whether or not they are sinners. I was also taught that we should love our neighbors, and to treat others as you would want to be treated. This is definitely NOT what Jesus would do. And by basic societal standards/expectations, we should respect other people and their beliefs and lifestyles. If you are going to preach your beliefs based on a religion, you cannot take pieces of it and say "This is what Christianity believes" and just throw out the parts you don't like. That's not how it works. I really hope you reconsider your point of view or at least keep it private, because if you are an example of a typical Christian, I don't want to be in the same category.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:54 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2963

    "Lots of mythical deities have been granted that day as their imaginary birthday, Jesus only one of the many."

    Exactly! [thumbup] http://youtu.be/oZgT1SRcrKE

     
  • Taylor Jordan posted at 11:40 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    TJ78 Posts: 4

    Russell - you are a true leader and don't ever forget it man :-)

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:24 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Thank you Lynsay Nuss
    Everyone has a different way of celebrating christmas. It does not belong to anyone even as Rick Houdack illustrates. You can choose to observe "a solemn occassion" or make it a cheerful happening as christmas is portrayed in Dickens "Christmas Carol". No one should say what it's supposed be for others. No one should dictate what is the true meaning. And if people want to participate in a parade then rejoice. Don't gutterball it calling it a "political statment" by the participants, its not. It may be a social statement (if anything) but where is the politics. except in your mind. Don't denigrate the group insisting as Brian Docktor does they have a hidden agenda. Regardless of the way you want to celebrate (or not) everyone wants to be in on the merriment of the season.And most people want everyone to participate. If we are all celebrating together we are not fighting. But if we wind up saying stay out of our parade, as Mr Baumbach suggested, go have your own parade. Where is the good will and holiday spirit? If we all celebrate in our own way we should know then the meaning of peace on earth. And isn't that the hoped for goal.

     
  • Sophonda Peters posted at 9:46 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Sophonda Posts: 5

    Well I have to tell you nothing says Christmas more than the Budweiser clydesdales, and a waste management truck with lights on it. Tell me more about this meaning of christmas the parade endorses. I think this parade is put on by the Downtown business partnership isn't it? not the area churches.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:42 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Applause to Russell
    [smile]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:32 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Now there you go again Brian getting all scrooge on everyone. And you were off to a good start yesterday with your first signs of a sense of humor.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:24 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Excellent post Mr Houdack. I hope MR Kinderman reads it. He needs to learn the meaning of christmas.

     
  • Lynsay Nuss posted at 9:20 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    ldnuss Posts: 1

    I commend this group of young people for being active and contributing members of our community. Their group has as much right to be included in a parade that celebrates the activities of the community as any other business, religious institution, and organization. The group is representative of some of the individuals of Lodi, and thus, deserves equal representation in the parade. Allowing these young citizens to participate and represent their organization shows the true spirit of our varied holiday season, togetherness and celebration. I think it is unwise to label Lodi as a place that adheres to a narrow and particular set of beliefs and customs, when clearly, we are heterogeneous in what we hold dear. I personally believe that the true spirit of community is working together to incorporate all citizens equally, not to confine ourselves to one avenue of thought because of a handful of close minded individuals. I commend these teenagers for their bravery in participating, especially in such a conservative town such as Lodi. I also appreciate their efforts as active members in their community. We'd all be better served if more young people followed their lead, and I'm proud that my two young children were able to witness what it really means to be open-minded and accepting to ALL members of this community.

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 9:12 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 146

    Another teachable moments presents itself for lucky Mr. Kinderman.

    The event is named "Parade of Lights"; it is not the Jesus Parade. It is so named as to be as inclusive as possible for as many people of differing faith - or no faith - as possible. Has Kinderman ever wondered, if modern time began with the birth of his sacred, sacred savior, why his birthday is not on January First? Most people know that the December 25th Holiday stolen by the Christian church was already an established and ancient holiday, Saturnalia, celebrating the lengthening of the days after the winter solstice. Lots of mythical deities have been granted that day as their imaginary birthday, Jesus only one of the many. Jesus is also relegated to sharing his magical "virgin" birth, along with his so-called miracles, his crucifixion and mythical flight into space sans spaceship, with several of the ancient December 25th Birthday Club. Jesus was not only NOT born on Christmas Day, he cannot claim his myths as original or unique to him. Santa Claus, derided by Kinderman, holds as legitimate a claim as the Jesus figure on the date.

    And the beloved ancient symbols of the Spring Fertility Festival, eggs and rabbits, which also predate the Christ myth by many centuries, have also come under attack by Kinderman as somehow illegitimate at their own banquet.

    And he does all of this under the guise of "correctly" worshipping! "Ban the people I dislike or cancel the parade!" he says.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:09 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    "And I am referring to Joe"

    Daryn, I see you've already met some of "the guys".

    Welcome.

    This is what goes on here everyday.

    Facts and science don't matter...

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:07 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    Here, opinions are used like clubs.

    Some beat up what they don't like...

    Others, what ever frightens them. The list is long.

    Liberals, liberalism, the president, the GLBT community, Muslims, union members, teachers, proponents or alternate lifestyles, Democrats, immigrants lacking the proper paper work, immigrants that don't speak English, community activist, artist, musicians, college professors, labor organizers, Hollywood actors, leftist, General motors stockholders...

    Did I miss anyone??


    [beam]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:06 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    With each new letter or posting...

    Another mean spirited opinion is delivered.

    The "debate" begins anew and process repeats.

    Again and again.

    [wink]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:06 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    I stated below...If the purpose of this event is to have groups of people who live in our community make a political statements then of of course it is ok to promote this float.

    On the other hand, if the purpose is not to make political statements, then I think Mr Kinderman's observation is accurate...he said he wanted to celebrate Christmas as it is meant to be - the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ and that Christmas is not about sexuality - it's about something very solemn and Holy.

    There is a time and place for everything. I do not think anyone opposing political statements in this kind of event is born from hatred. In San Francisco, gay pride and it's political statements are made in a parade specifically for that issue. I have no problem with that event as the purpose is made clear ahead of time.

    I would think if LGBT desired a special event and wants a parade in Lodi, they should go for it. That is their right to free speech and promotion of their political goals and agenda.

    All these accusations and grandstanding assigning hatred and something unwholesome to people who simply want to celebrate Christmas as Mr Kinderman stated is outrageous and inappropriate.. in fact, it is hateful.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:57 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Daryn I really like your posts

     
  • Russell Nelson posted at 8:52 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Russell Nelson Posts: 2

    As marry griffin once said,"We may think that homosexuality is wrong. That it is sinn. But as you condem these young people in your homes and place of worship a child is listening." (paraphrased as close as possible) I am new to lodi and I respect the traditions of the town but as a 16 year old that has had a friend kill themselves due to their sexuality I do have an agenda. Not to force anyone to accept me but to tell anyone out there that is struggling with who they are that they are not alone. That even when they feel this"choice" of being gay is sin and wrong they are not alone. I was their too and alone thinking if only I could fight against it but in the end it tears your heart and it made me a mean and hateful person. So to all of you that wish us to be gone I say that we shall not leave I scream not for those that hate me but for those that need me. Please if any of you have a concern about our group do not post it online and be a hidden voice show up at out meeting on sunday at the public libary at 1 pm. You'll see we aren't some evil people just ordinary people like you that want to find a healthy way to live opur lives. I'm sorry for any misconseptions I hope we can clear them up in the future. P.S. it was mostly teenagers in that float not adults half naked going down the street

     
  • Daryn Alsup posted at 8:30 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    DA2005 Posts: 8

    Well it isn't your place to decide what has pleased God - and Christmas means something different for everyone. Tradition is for the traditional - this topic isn't traditional - and there was really no point in singling out Christians here - our personal beliefs are just that - ours and personal.

    Christ's mass and Christmas are no longer the same thing. You may celebrate the birth of the son of God on the 25th - as do I - but Christianity and hate never walk as one - and gay kids celebrating Christmas shouldn't be looked down upon just because they sin differently than you. We've all sinned by posting this crap - we're supposed to pull our brother aside and talk to him candidly should he walk the wrong path - or do I have to quote the scripture for you to remember that verse. There are cultures and beliefs outside of christianity that celebrate in their own way - AND THE CITY - can acknowledge any of these diversities. After all it's what makes the city of Lodi - Lodi!

     
  • Daryn Alsup posted at 7:55 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    DA2005 Posts: 8

    Okay 1) the chauvinistic comments and discriminating nature of the context in which they are written has absolutely no place in Lodi. (For that matter it wasn't those ideals that founded the city or what propels the city forward today) And I am referring to Joe. You along with the letter to the editor should keep an age old saying in mind before you open your mouth - your mother should have taught it to you, it goes like this...

    "If you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all."

    We were all raised better than this - than to point our fingers at things we don't like and scream in hatred and disapproval just because we don't like them. Or in the case of Joe, use metaphoric lingo and scenario-scopic visions like boy-man love and other ridiculousness in contrast to a letter that has absolutely nothing to do with such social depravity in the first place... Joe that's almost like a kid pointing a finger at someone in kindergarten who may be weaker or smarter than another you... which seems to be the hole point in having equality in our community wouldn't it?

    Enough with the dirty blogs and meaningless virility expressed here just because it's perfectly okay to be gay or whatever you are and celebrate christmas. The float was about christmas - the people were about christmas - the parade was about christmas. How much more CHRISTMASY does it need to be? lolol. Who cares if they're gay or were born with one eye or are christians or muslim - they can show how they celebrate any way they want... and just like the house down the street with terrible decorations up for Christmas - you can drive by it - say how much you hate it - but don't even think about tearing it down - cause that - that's my house - not yours. And by "house" I mean sexual preference.

    It's Christmas soon - eggnog anyone?

     
  • Sophonda Peters posted at 7:44 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Sophonda Posts: 5

    Ok all you haters, You know you all have gay or lesbian relatives. Is this how you treat your family members? You know the ratio of gay people to straight people is one gay person to ten straight people right? so somebody out there is having gay children. Is it you? Come on people it is almost 2013. its time for a reality check. This is not a lifestyle it is your relative, son or daughters life.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:40 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    I don't "wanna get a float and celebrate christmas like the rest of [you]." That's the problem. I want to celebrate Christmas as it is meant to be - the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. We've lost its true meaning. Now if you want to celebrate homosexuality with a parade downtown, then by all means go for it. If you can get the permits and if you think you'll draw enough people to make it worthwhile, then I suppose each year you can do it again. And if you want to schedule it for December 25th - knock yourselves out.

    On the other hand, Christmas is not about sexuality - it's about something very solemn and Holy. But we've lost our way with it and with the most Holy of events in the history of mankind - Easter. Now [c]hristmas is a fat guy in a red suit; [e]aster are eggs and bunny rabbits. I don't think God is pleased at all.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:10 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2813

    Rick wrote:

    Did any one of the bloggers here actually see the parade? Did anyone (other than the letter writer) see the float? Were the parade participants acting in an obscene manner? Was there nudity? Were the police called? Were arrests made?

    -I didn't see the parade. But I'm would speculate if the people on this float had it their way the float would have been a cespool of sexual suggestions.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 7:02 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    Joe, great post.

    Another proud moment!!


    [thumbdown]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 7:00 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075


    "I am not part of this group or promote their lifestyle"

    Darrell, thanks for the disclaimer.

    Would you be taking a tax deduction for your support?

    Hmmm??

    The old testament is full of endorsements for polygamy.

    Lots of those old Hebrew dudes characterized had multiple wives.

    So all the church going conservatives in town should be cool with it, right??


    [beam]

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 6:52 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 146

    What were the people on the float doing to earn all the hatred from the reliably conservative here?

    Did any one of the bloggers here actually see the parade? Did anyone (other than the letter writer) see the float? Were the parade participants acting in an obscene manner? Was there nudity? Were the police called? Were arrests made?

    Now we have the loving Christians wishing for the demise of the Christmas Parade event because they now feel violated and invaded? What's wrong with you people? If the same people had been in the parade without the flag and the Christians didn't know who they were, I presume there would be no issue. But since the rainbow people lifted their mask, they should be banned or the parade should be shut down? That says much more bout the false pretense of Christian love than it does about the rainbow flag float. Let their flag fly. I will volunteer to sponsor their entry next year and if they are banned, I will contribute to their legal fund for their battle against the city. There is no difference between this type of witch hunt and banning African-Americans or Irish or Japanese or Mormons from any other past public event.

     
  • Taylor Jordan posted at 6:37 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    TJ78 Posts: 4

    So this is why everyone is big cities laughs at Lodi behind its back. Ignorance runs rampant out in the sticks. [sad]

     
  • Daryn Alsup posted at 5:51 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    DA2005 Posts: 8

    See here's a prime example -

    I for one don't accept polygamy - but I accept the people who do. If you wanna get a float and celebrate christmas like the rest of us - DO IT!!! It is the season to be jolly - not complain to the editor about how lack luster your city is for being in good tidings to everyone - Like a city should be - Like I am proud Lodi obviously is!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:46 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    To clarify in my post below, I am not part of this group or promote their lifestyle. I simply and against discrimination and want to be understanding of people who think differently than I do.

     
  • Daryn Alsup posted at 5:45 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    DA2005 Posts: 8

    Not that I'm pointing the finger, but - isn't telling people they're not victims because we all are - just proving the point that they are victims - and so are you? It's called freedom of expression - and if you wanna get all defensive about it maybe marching was their way of saying thank you to the city of lodi and their supporters/family and friends and telling them they're wrong for doing it means... they're victims of the proclivity of a majority - Goodness don't tell someone they're not a victim... you make them a victim just by saying that!

    People have gotten very smart with what they say and very educated in expressing their personal views - but despite the puzzles they may put into the political, educational, mental and physical ring (of combat) - right is right and wrong is wrong. If your morals tell you it's wrong, take a step back and reassess - personal views can never dictate over any group of people - might you unravel the history of the United States and it's operation itself were you to drive your actions by your morals. By the very origin of the word, what they did was ALL-RIGHT. Let's leave the word victim, discrimination, LGBT and sexuality out of the picture huh? - It was citizens celebrating Christmas. Period. Not gay, lesbian, straight, transgender or anything else... PEOPLE celebrating the holidays as they do. If you don't like that, go blind or def or both - it's a big world and your bound to see something or hear something you don't like - being an adult about it Christy is the key.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:42 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    If the purpose of this event is to have groups of people who live in our community make a political statement then of of course it is ok to promote this float. Evidently from the posts on this thread, it is clear there are residents in this city who perceive Lodi a conservative city intolerant of progressive perspectives. LGBT has made it clear in past events that the people of Lodi are out of step with modern day ethics and acceptance of groups that are different than themselves. Discrimination is something that needs to be defeated.

    With that spirit in mind, there is a group of people that I know of that are wonderful people that have good hearts that are among us. They are afraid to come out of the closet as society discriminates against them as well.

    Next year, I plan to sponsor a float that in the parade and pay 100% of the costs. They too want to be accepted by the conservatives in Lodi and are tired of discrimination. They wish to participate and make a political statement that they too are human beings and from their perspective should be respected. I expect if they are denied, a law suit will be filed.

    This group desires to practice polygamy as a healthy lifestyle and desperately want to be accepted. The children of Lodi at this family orientated event to celebrate Christmas should open their hearts and understand it is not appropriate to discriminate and people should be free to enter into loving caring relationships.

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 5:10 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Sorry Taylor but you're very wrong in stating that "every float was a hetero float. that being said, who's to say that she herself hasn't been discriminated against. I have been discriminated against by all types of people; gay straight, black, hispanic, white - did I miss anyone? Oh - men. But I digress. Using discrimination as your argument fails (in my opinion) because EVERYONE has been discriminated against. Additionally there ARE MANY LGBT individuals who ARE sexually obsessed exhibitionists that perpetuate that stereotype. Because those outspoken individuals feel the need to shove their ideals and sexuality in an "in your face" manner, it turns people off and the LGBT community suffers for it. Think about it.

     
  • Daryn Alsup posted at 4:59 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    DA2005 Posts: 8

    Number 1 - it's the holiday season and I'll refrain from making any person or group of people from feeling any negativity and I suggest we all do the same! Number 2 - to the Robert Marty post, nothing about every float belonging to a straight person says victim or reflects a victim in contrast to LGBT stuff - if it did you wouldn't have posted such a brash comment - so perhaps it is better to stop labeling it as something it wasn't.

    This wasn't a pride parade but if we're treating it like it was, consider this... Harvey Milk was shot along with the mayor of SF after pushing millions of people to stand up and expect the same level of acceptance as anyone else by everyone else. They marched on castro to take pride in their friends and loved ones who supported them. And on the day of Harvey's death, 70% of the city of San Fran. marched from castro to city hall - each holding candles and one another, silent through the entire vigil. Then came the riots. Now - they still celebrate pride. And families still support them.

    I can't fathom why someone would suggest that kids - any kind of child or youth - any adult - shouldn't march in a CHRISTMAS parade - simply because they're gay. There was no screaming music, no naked people, no vulgarity at all - just holiday spirit. If that was unsettling to you I am sorry you felt that way - but if I can hang lights on my house - they can march. If you can praise God, they can hand out candy canes. The point was holiday cheer - and I think you missed it.

     
  • Taylor Jordan posted at 4:50 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    TJ78 Posts: 4

    Stop pretending to be a victim? I'm no victim. I'm a very successful and well-adjusted lawyer in San Francisco!

    Who else should we tolerate? mixed race couples? Out of wedlock mothers? Disabled folks?

    To be willing to accept a group, you have to in your heart already get that there is no "choice" involved in the matter, and that gay people are born just as gay as straight people are born straight. (Ironically, you will find tons of discriminatory straight people out there who somehow know better, but I defy you to find a gay person who doesn't agree with me on this. And who is more likey to have first-hand experience in the matter?)

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 4:35 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 30

    "...every float is a hetero pride float!"

    - Really? Come on. Stop pretending to be a "victim". We all (most of us) deal with some kind of discrimination. Tolerance - yes. Acceptance - not by all. Can't change that. Deal with it.

    Christy, your move is just fine. Please continue to do what you believe is best for your children. Don't let any "group" tell you differently.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:53 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Great post Mr Santoyo. Lets continue to make this a happy holiday

     
  • Taylor Jordan posted at 3:50 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    TJ78 Posts: 4

    I'm unsure what exactly was happening on the LGBT float, but if it was people smiling and waving under a Rainbow flag how is this flaunting anything?

    I also find it wickedly ironic that the writer of this letter says she doesn't see hetero pride floats at the event. Christy - every float is a hetero pride float! Until you have lived your entire life in a world full of people who discriminate against you (people like yourself, Christy), don't think you can understand the importance of being able to say "ya, I'm proud of who I am and I love myself!" Straight people don't inherently struggle with that they way so many LGBT folks do.

    And finally - being gay isn't any more or less about what happens in private as being straight is. It's people like Christy that see gay folks as being nothing more that sexually obsessed exhibitionists that make gay teens want to blow their brains out and jump off of bridges. So NOT in the spirit of Christmas, Christy.

    Bad move, Christy, bad move.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:47 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    There was another life adjusting moment in Lodi when the first African -American girls (twins) attended classes here. They were charming and I'm sure just as brave as the GLBT group. Its old history now just as I am. I wonder if there was an atheist float if it would spark controversy. Sure it might not have a baby Jesus but it would probably have wreaths, snowmen, stockings, decorated pines, nice music (maybe Celtic), etc.

     
  • Daryn Alsup posted at 3:38 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    DA2005 Posts: 8

    St. Nick - not to be confused with the infamous "Santa Claus" - Dropped presents down the chimney's of poor families regardless of their standing in their communities. If a saint can do that, perhaps the community should learn a very valuable lesson here.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:31 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    I really believe we get off on the wrong foot when we mistake common curtesy, respect and positive relations with the words "political correctness." That is a politically charged word and meant to foster discourteous behavior, show lack of respect and sever relations. Through the ages we have developed protocols between cultures since intentions are easy to hide or be misinterpreted as something hostile. Men are to easy to war at the slightest offense. War is not conducive to prosperityv or happiness. Peace on earth good will toward men.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:15 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    "cling to our Bibles and guns”???
    I truely believe MR Kinserman... oh never mind. I feel his holiday statement says it all. Joy to the world, peace on earth.

     
  • Sabrina Willis posted at 3:14 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Swillis Posts: 11

    Oh, no! All of the kids in the audience might catch the gay! Psshhh... IGNORANT!

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 1:30 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    “we've been infiltrated”

    Infiltrated? Congers up visions of spies and “enemies forces” during WAR time, doesn’t it?

    It doesn’t matter to this “blogger”…

    That they were born at Lodi Memorial, or that they’re members of our families, or that they graduated from our schools, or that they’re Lodi residents, or that they’re our neighbors and fellow home owners, or that they pay their taxes, or that they shop locally, or that they work at or own local business’, or etc. etc.

    You get my point.

    They’ve been labeled as “infiltrators” and I’ll leave it to you, citizens of Lodi, to ponder why…


    [huh]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 1:29 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    “only recourse we have is to stop attending events like this”

    Don’t want to see the GLBT float?

    Ok folks, you have the right not to attend.

    Even though, they’re typically the last float in the parade…

    You could just turn your head and not watch…

    But no…

    Stay home and miss Santa. Miss the whole show.

    [wink]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 1:28 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    “with the hope that the parade will be done away with sometime in the near future”

    Lodians, is that a lovely sentiment or what??

    [sad]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 1:27 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1075

    “I guess it really is time for us to cling to our Bibles and guns”

    Jerry, that what you’ve been doing for the last four years.

    How’s that working out for you????

    [beam]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:03 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Applause to mr Alsup
    Have a nice holiday season

     
  • Daryn Alsup posted at 12:28 pm on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    DA2005 Posts: 8

    Whoa - whoa - whoa. It's the Holiday Season, and everyone celebrates it. This is a community, and there will always be things you don't like seeing within it. But you're free to express your disapproval just as they are their equality - or in this case - their happiness together this Christmas. This article is more damaging to Lodi's good will and prosperous community in it's many colors than anything the LGBT community could have done. I don't think they pulled a naked float through town singing "We are family" - no. They have as much right to be in it - and did what everyone else in it did - celebrated Christmas. Lodi should be proud and the community shouldn't jump to harsh words or articles just because people thought it was wrong - less we find certain community members who don't celebrate the holidays at all who feel their shouldn't be a parade PERIOD... this article could entice such a statement now that it's been printed. For once, let's enjoy each other and quote "spread the cheer!"

     
  • Bobcatbob Ingram posted at 11:18 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    99er Posts: 119

    Slow down Christy, not all 'liberals' support sex on the Christmas Floats. I for one feel it is NOT appropriate.... and if we would all just knock the lights out of the next political Correctness nazi that gives us grief over our likes or dislikes we would go a long way toward real freedom....
    Political Correctness is a blinding sickness and should be discouraged .

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:55 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1314

    Having not seen the parade I have no idea what was the offensive visual from the letter or the comments here. Is it only the fact that it supported LGBT people in their search for acceptance? What would the kids see that would be sexual or offensive? Would they even know what the float was about if you didn't tell them? I tend not to like any kinds of public displays of affection (outside of brief greetings or farewells) regardless of gender combinations. Absent any visual offense the offense may simply be the predjudice in your own mind.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 10:28 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 539

    '...we've been infiltrated. The only recourse we have is to stop attending events like this with the hope that the parade will be done away with sometime in the near future.'

    Reactionary much?

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 10:17 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 539

    'They have a political agenda; they are not a school, a business, a non-profit, etc and that is the criteria the Parade uses to determine who gets a spot every year.'

    No, it's not... 'Categories- Schools, clubs, church groups, scouts, service groups are considered "non-profit"..., family and individuals are just that..."
    http://www.downtownlodi.com/admin/db_files/2012%20Parade%20of%20Lights%20Line-up,%20Rules%20%20Regulations%20Packet.pdf

     
  • Jackson Scott posted at 10:08 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Jackson Scott Posts: 384

    Jay, I'll still disagree with you about the lawsuit. But I totally agree 110% about the "force acceptance" part and an overall political agenda.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:35 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2963

    A defining year for gay marriage may be in store for 2013 as the United States Supreme Court agrees to hear two key cases.

    The two cases involve the Federal Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as a between a man and woman, and also California’s Proposition 8.

    Both are landmark cases and overturning them could have huge implications that pale in comparison to a "Rainbow Pride" float in Lodi's parade.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:26 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2323

    You're probably correct regarding the lawsuit that would surely ensue as a result of any move to keep such organizations from having a float in a town's parade. Of course it doesn't make it "right," does it? We've become such a litigious society - everyone out to get a buck at someone else's expense without earning it. When coupled with what I believe to be the downward spiral of our society, I only see darker days ahead for all of us.

    As for homosexuals thinking it's okay to "parade" their sexual beliefs and proclivities for all the world to see - I've never understood the why of it all. As the author of this letter aptly put it, some things are meant to be private. And our sex lives should be the most private of all our human activities.

    Yet here we are smack dab in what is left of the last conservative bastion in California and we've been infiltrated. The only recourse we have is to stop attending events like this with the hope that the parade will be done away with sometime in the near future. But what about the rest of the celebration designed? That's right - the good will be washed down the drain right along with the bad.

    Oh well. I guess it really is time for us to cling to our Bibles and guns.

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 8:59 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Jackson, it is not a violation or denial of anyone's civil rights by denying a float entry in a Christmas Light Parade. Any lawsuit by any specific group would be thrown out as frivolous. If the Christmas Light Parade committee has specific guidelines and policies that clearly outline was is and is not acceptable/appropriate, they can deny any entry they choose. The guildelines need to be enforced consistently to prevent any potential problems down the road.

    I do not agree with the Rainbow Pride float either. I agree with Marty's statement that the LGBT is attempting to force "acceptance" and it was inappropriate to use this parade as their platform. They have a political agenda; they are not a school, a business, a non-profit, etc and that is the criteria the Parade uses to determine who gets a spot every year. They had and have no business having a float in this particular parade, but I have a feeling the committee felt forced to allow the float for fear of repercussions. The LGBT is similar to the mafia in that if you don't do what they want, they threaten to "shun" you and your business and badmouth you to any and everyone who will hear, regardless of whether the information they spew is accurate.

     
  • Robert Marty posted at 7:49 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    rmartygeo Posts: 30

    I couldn't agree more with the writer. But, having a "rainbow" float at the parade is really not that suprising -- GLBT groups are constantly trying to indoctrinate children into believing it's "acceptable". You see, as I have written many years before, the GLBT are not looking for tolerance (which everyone should recieve), they are looking for acceptance. You can expect tolerance; you cannot force acceptance.

    Civil rights? Really, it's a Civil Right to have a float in a parade -- especially one that makes a "political" statement ? Keep the political agenda crap out of the parades and out of kids' faces. Here's a novel thought -- maybe let their PARENTS decide what to expose them too!

     
  • Jackson Scott posted at 7:35 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Jackson Scott Posts: 384

    Cue the firestorm of blog posts and LTE in 3...2...1!

    Christy, I'm not a fan of a "Rainbow" float either at a what is supposed to be a children's event either, BUT, you what you are suggesting would deny their civil rights. Not to mention open up the LDBP to a huge lawsuit.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:44 am on Tue, Dec 11, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1334

    I must admit, this is the first light parade I've gone to. I'm not sure who is sponsering this parade, or if there is a charge to enter a float, or if there is prize money. I think it helps show that there isn't this massive effort to rid "Christmas" from municiple participation, since it's obvious that many departments of the city of Lodi had to be involved.

    I don't recall the rainbow float, I left early. How was sexual behavior displayed? If the same people on the same float with a sign that identified it as "Young Lodi Republicans", could you identify it as young Lodi republicans, or was it obviously a float promoting homosexuality? I tend to doubt there will be naked dancers next year, unless the young Lodi republicans loosen up a bit.

    BTW, I wasn't really impressed by the whole thing. There were many nice floats and particapants, but just too many people so you couldn't see anything.

     

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