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Letter: We need to stop meddling, spend our money at home

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Posted: Thursday, July 3, 2014 12:42 am

The definition of insanity is doing more of the same expecting different results.

ISIL and Iraq have been on the news recently. U.S. policy led to the rise of ISIL because of the U.S. training and arming the Syrian Islamic terrorists from camps in Jordan and Turkey. The U.S. gave millions for weapons and training to these same people who are now destabilizing Iraq. The same folks who were using U.S. taxpayer money to kill Christians (Armenians, Assyrians, Antiochian Greeks, etc.), Kurds and other innocent Muslims inside Syria. Photos and videos surfaced in social media of blown up churches and how priests and nuns were being kidnapped.

President Obama is requesting $500 million to give to Syrian rebels — aka Syrian Islamic terrorists or al-Qaida 2.0.

How about we stop meddling in other nations’ internal affairs? Our roads need to be repaved in this U.S. How about we use $500 million for roads? I’m sick of driving on potholes! The U.S. Congress has the power of the purse, not the president. Call Congressman Jerry McNerney today to stop giving money to people who are killing innocent people in Syria and Iraq.

Alex Aliferis

Lodi

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Welcome to the discussion.

66 comments:

  • Mike Adams posted at 8:26 pm on Sat, Jul 26, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1380

    But you know andrew, and let me call you that since you like to email me all the time now, when someone checks out one of your "links" from real and legitimate sources, the whole thing is just a little different than you claim. I'm no saying you doctor these things, I don't have to. No one here looks at your links thinking they're going to get the true story. Plus your correspondents never actually work for the legitimate news organizations you attempt to affiliate them with. Sure they may sell them stories all the time and maybe they worked there once. It's kind a like "being in journalism for 25 years" juxtaposed with "I've been a journalist for 25 years."

    And if it's like Jien Kaur (keep it up Jien...your English is getting better all the time) says your good friends Melissa and Aaron got fired from infowars (Fired from infowars? What did they do, run a fair piece on a topic?), and Jien hasn't lied to us yet, well how do you go from a conspiracy web site with two correspondents and one listener (you) to a conspriacy web site with no readers (Mellisa and Aaron)?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:30 pm on Sat, Jul 26, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Jien, Paul Joseph Watson has been busy covering the lies coming out of Washington concerning MH17. It's sad but I think most Americans have a tendency to believe whatever their televisions tell them. I agree, it's nauseating to see Russia unjustly accused.

     
  • Jien Kaur posted at 4:50 pm on Sat, Jul 26, 2014.

    Jien Kaur Posts: 137

    Mr. Adam - like car wreck can't stop from looking at - the two Melissa and Aaron were dismissed from Infowars and start own web pages. I am hope they cover the Malaysia airplane shot down that in real had long dead bodies of the Malaysia flight was supposed to lost in ocean many months past. Are the government think that they fool the American people with old dead bodies? Poor Russia to be accused so unjust.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:08 pm on Sat, Jul 26, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Gosh darn those "1 person news "networks" or blogs Melissa cited in her article. I mean honestly, how dare the BBC,Forbes,ABC and Reuters attempt to "portray themselves as legitimate journalists."[lol]

    BBC news article:
    "...Bin Laden left Saudi Arabia in 1979 to fight
    against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The
    Afghan jihad was backed with American dollars
    and had the blessing of the governments of Saudi
    Arabia and Pakistan. He received security
    training from the CIA itself."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/155236.stm

    Forbes business information service article:
    "...[Osama bin Laden] received military and
    financial assistance from the intelligence services
    of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the United States."

    http://www.forbes.com/charitable/2001/09/14/0914whoisobl.html

    ABC News article:
    "In the 1980s, bin Laden left his comfortable
    Saudi home for Afghanistan to participate in the
    Afghan jihad, or holy war, against the invading
    forces of the Soviet Union - a cause that,
    ironically, the United States funded, pouring
    $3 billion into the Afghan resistance via the CIA."

    http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/binladen_profile.html

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/07/01/urkaine-crisis-idINKBN0F63EG20140701

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 11:00 am on Sat, Jul 26, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1380

    So somehow, shifting to another conspiracy website with two people no one has ever heard of is supposed to convince us of what?

    Just more nutty talk from the fringe of society only with links built into even more 1 person news "networks" or blogs trying desparetly to portray themselves as legitimate journalists and hoping no one looks any deeper.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 5:55 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    I recently shared this entire thread with my friends Aaron Dykes & Melissa Melton at Truthstream Media which was enough to inspire Melissa to write the following...[lol]

    http://truthstreammedia.com/any-there-any-terrorist-groups-who-arent-paid-foot-soldiers-for-the-u-s-military-intelligence-agenda/


     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:34 pm on Fri, Jul 18, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    As long as the cognitive dissonance continues I will continue to use the [sleeping] emoticon.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:51 pm on Fri, Jul 18, 2014.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1459

    I'm afraid Mr Liebich you are the one abusing the snooze button.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:20 am on Fri, Jul 18, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    I agree, when it comes to President Obama arming and funding Al-Qaeda you are definately asleep. The question is, are you ever going to wake-up?

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 8:31 pm on Thu, Jul 17, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    [sleeping]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 8:30 pm on Thu, Jul 17, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    [sleeping]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:21 am on Thu, Jul 17, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    We were discussing the topic of "reliable or reputable" sources Christina but if you would like to switch back to the FSA we can.[lol]

    You have already been provided with videos of FSA "moderate" rebels "firing weapons" and "singing the praises of 9/11 and Bin Laden." You referred to them as "ridiculous" and also incorrectly stated that the "FSA is not affiliated with Al Nusra or Al-Qaeda" despite having been provided with links to the US State Department, Yahoo News, Reuters, CNN, the Guardian and the Christian Science Monitor all of which clearly demonstrated that they are in fact affiliated.[lol]

    P.S.
    YouTube channel BoogiFinger didn't use interviews, news footage, etc from legitimate sources to "report" them in a way to serve propagandist purposes.[lol]

    BoogieFinger's ENTIRE video consists of 7 minutes and 7 seconds of footage downloaded directly from CSPAN. Suggesting that 7 minutes and 7 seconds of CSPAN footage isn't "reliable" on a YouTube channel but the same 7 minutes and 7 seconds is "reliable" if viewed on CSPAN is utterly idiotic.[lol]

    YouTube channel R11110000 didn't use interviews, news footage, etc from legitimate sources to "report" them in a way to serve propagandist purposes. Hillary Clinton's words were not reported "in a way to serve propagandist purposes." Hillary Clinton's words were Hillary Clinton's words. VERBATIM![lol]

    YouTube channel Rand Paul Revolution didn't use interviews, news footage, etc from legitimate sources to "report" them in a way to serve propagandist purposes. Gayane Chichakyan directly quoted the Pentagon's investigative report and Sen. Jeanne Shaheen directly quoted herself.[lol]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 7:51 pm on Wed, Jul 16, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    And, all those interviews you cited had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand--FSA videos of themselves firing weapons, kicking back with Al-Qaeda singing the praises of 9/11 and Bin Laden. Those ridiculous You Tube channels use the interviews, news footage, etc from legitimate sources and "report" them in a way to serve their own propagandist purposes. If you want to use Hillary's interview or Bachmann's speech, why not use Fox or CNN or ABC who actually produced it in the first place?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:33 am on Wed, Jul 16, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    [rolleyes]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:33 am on Wed, Jul 16, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    You are too funny...YouTube channel BoogieFinger hasn't "produced" anything Christina. YouTube channel BoogieFinger merely posted a video which consists ENTIRELY of a clip downloaded directly from CSPAN! [lol]

    Suggesting that CSPAN isn't "reliable" because someone with a YouTube channel named BoogieFinger uploads a clip from CSPAN it is utterly absurd. A CSPAN clip of Michelle Bachmann speaking on the House floor is a CSPAN clip of Michelle Bachmann speaking on the House floor.
    [sleeping]


    YouTube channel R11110000 posted a video which consists ENTIRELY of a clip from Ben Swann's 'Reality Check'. A show that aired on FOX19. Ben Swann has won two Emmy Awards and two Edward R. Murrow awards yet he isn't "reliable?"[lol]

    Ben Swann's 'Reality Check' clip included a FOX News interview with Hillary Clinton as well as a CNN interview with Hillary Clinton. On what planet are Ben Swann, FOX News and CNN not "reliable?"
    [sleeping]

    YouTube channel Rand Paul Revolution posted a video consisting of a clip from RT. Gayane Chichakyan is an RT Washington DC correspondent. She directly quotes the Pentagon's investigative report and includes a clip of Sen. Jeanne Shaheen from an ABC News interview.[lol]

    On what planet is a Pentagon investigative report, Sen. Jeanne Shaheen and ABC News not "reliable?"
    [sleeping]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 10:02 pm on Tue, Jul 15, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    And none of them show any videos pf FSA members themselves firing US weaponry, praising Al-Qaeda, burning flags, etc, which is what you're trying to prove here. All of it is just your usual back-pedaling, misdirection, and other BS. It is so tiresome.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 9:52 pm on Tue, Jul 15, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    I can't reply below...

    Eretz Zen is not reliable. R-11110000 that made the video of Hilary that you just provided is not reliable or reputable. The RandPAulRevolution (which doesn't seem to be endorsed by Rand Paul himself) video about the Inspector General is not reliable. Boogie Finger's video of Michelle Bachmann is not reliable. Really, Andrew? BOOGIE FINGER? That's a reliable source in your mind? If EVER there was an instance of ROFLMAO, that has to be the winner. Oh, if only Walter was here to comment...

    PBS, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, or any network news videos that are on You Tube would be reliable. Something produced by Discovery, or National Geographic, Sci Fi, A&E, etc would be reliable. Articles from the major newspapers and even minor ones would be reliable. Something produced by a JOURNALIST would be reliable. Not something produced by Boogie Finger!!!!
    [lol]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:20 am on Tue, Jul 15, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Videos of FSA "moderate" rebels themselves aren't reliable?

    Why?[rolleyes]

    Would a video of former Secretary of State and current Presidential frontrunner Hillary Clinton be "reliable?"[lol]

    http://youtu.be/kzQ2KZWfjgs?list=PLL8-bSYlGi6YtgeaeVUgWkVdAKf9bHZnS

    How about the Pentagon's Inspector General or United States Senator Jeanne Shaheen? Would the Pentagon's Inspector General or United States Senator Jeanne Shaheen be a "reliable" source Ms. Welch? [lol]

    http://youtu.be/F8zMf6-BJTU?list=PLL8-bSYlGi6YtgeaeVUgWkVdAKf9bHZnS

    Would former congressman and Presidential candidate Ron Paul be a "reliable" source?[lol]

    http://youtu.be/4t2K7eU3sGI?list=PLL8-bSYlGi6YtgeaeVUgWkVdAKf9bHZnS

    How about current Rep. Michele Bachmann? Is Michele Bachmann "reliable?"[lol]

    http://youtu.be/7rG1zgbHQ6c?list=PLL8-bSYlGi6YtgeaeVUgWkVdAKf9bHZnS

    Would Glenn Beck be "reliable?"[lol]

    http://youtu.be/hhq4K7Ml__M?list=PLL8-bSYlGi6YtgeaeVUgWkVdAKf9bHZnS

    I'm dying to know Christina...Who do you find reliable?[lol]

    It's time for a Reality Check.
    http://youtu.be/kzQ2KZWfjgs?list=PLL8-bSYlGi6YtgeaeVUgWkVdAKf9bHZnS

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 6:31 pm on Mon, Jul 14, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    And those videos are about as reliable as the video I saw claiming Michele Obama is really a man. Oh, wait, that was on YOUR You Tube channel, wasn't it? So hard to keep all the nonsense on You Tube straight...

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:03 am on Mon, Jul 14, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    A video of FSA "moderate" rebels singing songs in praise of Osama Bin Laden while celebrating the “sweet memory” of the attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11 is a video of FSA "moderate" rebels singing songs in praise of Osama Bin Laden while celebrating the “sweet memory” of the attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11.
    [sleeping]

    A video of FSA "moderate" rebel groups referring to their unit as the “Osama Bin Laden” brigade is a video of FSA "moderate" rebel groups referring to their unit as the “Osama Bin Laden” brigade.
    [sleeping]

    A video of FSA "moderate" rebels burning U.S. flags and chanting anti-American slogans is a video of FSA "moderate" rebels burning U.S. flags and chanting anti-American slogans.
    [sleeping]

    [sleeping]http://youtu.be/W-WSdGasWpg

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 5:23 pm on Sun, Jul 13, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    Oh dear, I am not free as I thought...

    Andrew, Do you think I speak Arabic? Or most of the US population, for that matter? Those videos are subtitled by someone, and not a member of FSA or Al-Nusra. They're done by a guy named Eretz Zen (although you have now twice evaded my questions about him) without any journalistic credentials as far as I can see from his info on You Tube. Any nutcase can have a You Tube channel; if it's not a legitimate news source then it's at worst the ravings of a madman or at best it's just propaganda. Either way, it's not valid to me.

    I checked You Tube and could find no FSA channel, but I did see Al-Nusra has one. I perused it. I saw no videos produced by themselves to verify Eretz Zen's work. So, when you say:
    "A video of the FSA or Al-Nusra themselves is a video of the FSA and Al-Nusra themslves." No, not so much, it's a video by someone else.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 5:03 pm on Sun, Jul 13, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    And, you, too, Thomas. See ya on another thread [smile]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 5:02 pm on Sun, Jul 13, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    That's all you've got this time? No more ridiculous or misleading articles or videos to chase? Good. I am happy to finally put this discussion to a close.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 4:41 pm on Sun, Jul 13, 2014.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1459

    Ms Welch
    Thank you, and may I return thanks as well to you for some very good and insightful comments.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:50 pm on Sat, Jul 12, 2014.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1459

    Spectacular job Ms Welch I am only sorry you had to suffer the experience.

    [thumbup]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:47 pm on Sat, Jul 12, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    [rolleyes]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:46 pm on Sat, Jul 12, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Good grief! You can't be serious.[rolleyes]

    If you are going to refer to videos of the FSA and Al-Nusra themselves flying Al-Qaeda flags, burning the US flag, singing songs in praise of Osama bin Laden and 9/11 and chanting anti-US slogans as "ridiculous" how on earth am I going to be able to provide ANYTHING you consider "LEGITMATE verification?" [lol]

    A video of the FSA or Al-Nusra themselves is a video of the FSA and Al-Nusra themslves.
    [sleeping]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 2:34 pm on Sat, Jul 12, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    Oh, Andrew, just stop it! Or, I guess I should be saying that to myself because I continue to respond.

    1. I'm not going to watch a video with some maniac eating a heart. For the record, Politifact reports it as half-true. I do believe it happened, or something like it, but how does that prove the FSA is affiliated with Al Nusra or Al-Qaeda? Or how does it prove he's even a jihadist?

    2. I also believe that rebels from FSA are defecting to Al-Qaeda. So, what? Those articles did nothing to support the claims made in the videos you previously provided. Those jihadists are no longer a part of FSA, and that is a good thing. Again, FSA is not affiliated with Al Nusra or Al-Qaeda.

    If you want me to believe you (which at this point is next to impossible), I want LEGITMATE verification of those ridiculous videos with members of the FSA supposedly flying the Al-Qaeda flag and singing songs in praise of Osama bin Laden and 9/11. Or burning US flags and chanting anti-US slogans. And, as things are ever changing over there, I want them to be recent. And, BTW, who is that Eretz Zen guy that keeps creating all those BS videos? Does he also work for Alex Jones, like you?

    Please, Andrew, quit crying wolf!!!!

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:13 am on Sat, Jul 12, 2014.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1459

    I am glad to let you keep thinking that Andrew. Enjoy.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 10:18 pm on Fri, Jul 11, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    WOLF!!!

    I did check all those references (you gave the websites on your post at 2:23 am on July 4th) and here's what I found:

    The Washington Times reports what was said in the Daily Beast, where all this talk comes from, as Poltifact reported. To quote: “I’ll see you guys in New York,” said Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, Army Col. Kenneth King told reporters at the Daily Beast Saturday." It's this King guy who sets the date as 2009. The Defense Department says 2004, as reported by Politifact. Col KIng refused to comment to Politifact.

    CBS News: "A U.S. official said this week that its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, said “I’ll see you guys in New York” when he was released in 2009." My assumption is that the "US official" is Col King again. The rest of the article talks about NYC needing to be vigilant about possible pending terrorist attacks.

    Telegraph: "Why such a ferocious individual was deemed fit for release in 2009 is not known. One possible explanation is that he was one of thousands of suspected insurgents granted amnesty as the US began its draw down in Iraq. Another, though, is that rather like Keyser Söze, the enigmatic crimelord in the film The Usual Suspects, he may actually be several different people." OK, there's the date, but definitely not an indictment against Obama. And, honestly, The Telegraph?

    ABC News: " However, a U.S. official told ABC News today that al-Baghdadi was not in American custody in 2009 when King says he made the comment. The official, familiar with intelligence relating to al-Baghdadi, said he did not know exactly when the future terror leader was released from custody, but by 2006, he had “resumed his activities.” Since then, the official said, al-Baghdadi has been “active with the group [ISIS].” Another U.S. official confirmed the general timeline discrepancy. Both American officials spoke on the condition of anonymity." This article absolutely DISPROVES the 2009 date.

    Miami Herald: "He was captured by the Americans in 2005 and was held at Camp Bucca in sweltering southern Iraq for years, though it’s difficult to pinpoint the circumstances and timing of his release. In any case, he was free by 2010 and already had ascended enough in the jihadist movement that he assumed control of al Qaida’s Iraq branch after the deaths of two superiors." Again, no mention of the 2009 date in this article.

    Mother Jones: "In 2008, while reducing the numbers of US troops in the country, Bush signed an agreement with the Iraqi government that mandated that all detainees be handed over to Iraqi forces. In accordance with this agreement, Baghdadi was transferred to Iraqi custody in 2009, and by 2010, the Iraqi government (for a reason not explained publicly) had set him free. That same year, Baghdadi assumed leadership of ISIS. He has since been dubbed "the new
    bin Laden." Ok, they give the 2009 date (erroneously, I believe) but pin it on Bush's policy, as Politifact also pointed out.

    SO, I see no proof or verification of your claim in these articles. Once again, you took what you wanted out of context to try and support your assertions. You have prevaricated, evaded, twisted, and insulted enough.

    Hope I saved you the trouble, Thomas, from having to look all this up and document all of it. While some are quite accustomed to it, I have never copy/pasted so much in all my life. This is quite exhausting! And I really am done now.


     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 5:25 pm on Fri, Jul 11, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    OK...

    FSA "moderate" commander Abu Sakkar cutting out the heart of a Syrian Army soldier and eating it on camera as originally reported by the BBC in May of 2013.
    [sleeping]
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22519770

    FSA "moderate" commander Abu Sakkar cutting out the heart of a Syrian Army soldier and eating it on camera as reported by the Huffington Post.
    [sleeping]
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/14/syrian-rebel-leader-abu-sakkar-cutting-eating-soldiers-heart-video_n_3271067.html

    FSA "moderate" commander Abu Sakkar cutting out the heart of a Syrian Army soldier and eating it on camera as reported by NBC News.
    [sleeping] http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/14/18244907-sheer-savagery-syrian-rebel-rips-out-soldiers-heart-human-rights-watch-says?lite

    FSA "moderate" rebels defecting to Al-Qaeda affiliated Islamist group Jabhat al-Nusra as reported by the Guardian.
    [sleeping]
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/08/free-syrian-army-rebels-defect-islamist-group

    FSA "moderate" rebels defecting to Al-Qaeda affiliated Islamist group Jabhat al-Nusra as reported by Yahoo News.
    [sleeping]
    https://in.news.yahoo.com/free-syrian-army-rebels-defecting-al-qaeda-linked-052840449.html

    FSA "moderate" rebels defecting to Al-Qaeda affiliated Islamist group Jabhat al-Nusra as reported by The Christian Science Monitor.
    [sleeping]
    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2013/1216/As-foreign-funds-run-dry-Syrian-fighters-defect-to-anti-Western-militias-video


     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 4:42 pm on Fri, Jul 11, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Translation: I don't want to research references because I will discover that Andrew does know what he is talking about. [lol]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:34 pm on Fri, Jul 11, 2014.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1459

    Andrew
    to your 9:54 am on Fri, Jul 11, 2014 post:
    Please note I specifically stated I responded to your 8:35 am on Wed, Jul 9, 2014 post. That did not have the references you listed here. I believe you were already presented with this Polifact/Pundifact in the Tampa Bay Times.

    www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jun/19/jeanine-pirro/foxs-pirro-obama-set-isis-leader-free-2009/

    I don't want to research references only to find your allegation that al-Baghdadi was released in 2009, and discover he was released after being stopped for a traffic violation or spitting on the sidewalk. Its hard reading about stuff I already know (and not reading stuff I have pending) and not finding anything new or of substance when I read your links. Ultimately what difference does it make if he was released in 2004 or 2009? Only that you can do your Obama bashing and sound like you know what you are talking about when you yell treason which is a joke. Its as bad as all the tea baggers yelling impeachment all over their website. ROFLMAO.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 10:51 am on Fri, Jul 11, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    Andrew, I am done here unless you want to provide me with an article or video from a reputable source to verify the videos you suggested I watch on You Tube. I watched them. Most of them seem to originate from some "Eretz Zen" who appears to be the Alex Jones of Syria. That's not proof for me. Or most of us here on this forum.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 10:33 am on Fri, Jul 11, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    [thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

    Thank you Thomas so much for your comment here. You are able to say what I'm thinking far more succinctly. I so appreciate your input.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:54 am on Fri, Jul 11, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Epic fail again...

    When the Washington Times says, "The current leader of the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) had some chilling words upon his release from a U.S. detention camp in Iraq in 2009" it means Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was released in 2009.
    [sleeping]

    When CBS News says, "A U.S. official said this week that its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, said “I’ll see you guys in New York” when he was released in 2009" it means Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was released in 2009.
    [sleeping]

    When the Telegraph says, "Why such a ferocious individual was deemed fit for release in 2009 is not known" it means Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was released in 2009.
    [sleeping]

    When ABC News says, "As he was released from American custody in 2009" it means Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was released in 2009.
    [sleeping]

    When the Mother Jones Magazine says, "led to Baghdadi's release in 2009" it means Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was released in 2009.
    [sleeping]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:16 am on Fri, Jul 11, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    I'm sorry Christina but you are mistaken. Incredibly mistaken.

    The U.S. BGM 71-TOW anti-tank missles being fired by Al-NUSRA who pledged allegience to AL-QAEDA is indeed aid to AL-QAEDA and AL-NUSRA. [sleeping]

    Let's move on to your "moderate" FSA rebels...

    Why are FSA "moderate" rebel fighters are routinely photographed wearing the Al-Qaeda motif? There are innumerable videos that show "moderate" FSA forces flying the Al-Qaeda flag. Look it up.
    [sleeping]

    Did you know that FSA "moderate" rebels have proudly proclaimed their affinity with Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda? In the video link below you can watch FSA "moderate" rebels singing songs in praise of Osama Bin Laden while celebrating the “sweet memory” of the attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11.
    [sleeping] obama-backed-syrian-rebels-praise-bin-laden-celebrate-911-attacks

    In this video you can watch FSA "moderate" rebel groups referring to their unit as the “Osama Bin Laden” brigade.
    [sleeping] http://youtu.be/DdWVOI3NsR8

    FSA "moderate" fighters have also displayed the black Al-Qaeda flag on innumerable occasions, including recently during a series of grisly public executions. I skip the link. It's grisly. Look it up.[sleeping]

    FSA "moderate" rebels have also been caught on camera burning U.S. flags and chanting anti-American slogans.
    [sleeping] http://youtu.be/BZui1YVCVTY

    FSA "moderate" commander Abu Sakkar cut out the heart of a Syrian Army soldier in May and ate it on camera! If he's a "moderate" what are the extremists doing Christina?[rolleyes]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 10:31 pm on Thu, Jul 10, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    FACT: The US is not giving aid to Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra or Al Bundy for that matter. They are aiding the FSA, a moderate, secular group without any ties to either terrorist organization.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:42 pm on Thu, Jul 10, 2014.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1459

    Andrew to your 8:35 am on Wed, Jul 9, 2014 post
    I can't believe I read some of these articles (I skipped Yahoo). Again a waste of time. What conclusions you draw are not supported and what is presented is exactly what the dilemma over there is, a bunch of muslim radicals squabbling amongst themselves (they are hardly a united front) which makes it difficult for us to support legit Syrian opposition as McCain and Graham (and Europeans) are insisting the president do.

    There is nothing about al-Baghdadi, his release in 2009 or Obama personally unlocking his holding cell and letting him go. I had to go to Wikipedia for:

    "According to Department of Defense records, al-Baghdadi was held at Camp Bucca as a 'civilian internee' by US Forces-Iraq from early February 2004 until early December 2004, when he was released. A Combined Review and Release Board recommended the 'unconditional release' of al-Baghdadi and there is no record of him being held at any other time."

    The state department said (last sentence in your link)

    "The sooner the political transition to a post-Asad Syria begins, the better it will be for the Syrian people and the region".

    You always take the selected facts to make a half baked case. Now this all gets even more squirrely when you consider that Nusra or ISIL are sunni muslim in direct opposition to the shite muslim now in control of Iraq and Iran. Supporting Iraq against the Nusra or ISIL puts us in direct support of Iran and Iraqs government which refuses to agree to our terms for having a US presence in Iraq and remain harmless against local legal grievances.

    You like to take advantage of these dmd if you do dmd if you don't situations and create a line of BS especially against the president at every oportunity. The articles say nothing other than there are different rival groups (we already know) and some are terrorist groups (again we already know) giving support to the moderate Syrian rebels has the possible outcomes that support can likely get into the hands of terrorists directly, (where moderates need to negotiate or trade with the radicals) or indirectly (where the radicals steal or grab supplies off the battlefield). Fortunately we are only supplying mostly defensive gear and humanitarian aid.

    Your mistaken calculus of 1. oh these are terrorists "A", 2. we are supporting terrorists "B" therefore = "C" treason and/or the Tea Baggers "C" impeachment. This is simpleton and a total failure to grasp of what is a very complex situation.

    So the state department said (last sentence again) "The sooner the political transition to a post-Asad Syria begins, the better it will be for the Syrian people and the region". This is if we want to avoid a radical muslim take over there. Now a brilliant idea on your part could be helpful rather than the stone throwing you engage yourself in.

    So Andrew I stand corrected. Not all your sources are baloney or bogus. I now have to remember that you can go to legit sources but manage to jump to hasty and rash conclusions and mangle a disconnected group of facts into an alarmist fanciful theory presented as fact.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 2:57 pm on Thu, Jul 10, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    I messed up my message, sorry... If I am mistaken, then please provide me with the transcript where she admits we are funding Al-Qaeda or Al-Nusra for that matter. That's the whole point for me and why I responded to Walter as I did...

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 2:54 pm on Thu, Jul 10, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    And why do you continue to evade the fact that you lied when you said: "The same way they ignore the fact that President Obama has been arming and funding Al-Qaeda for 3 years despite Susan Rice's recent admission."

    If I am mistaken, then pleashThat's the whole point of this for me and why I responded to Walter as I originally did a week ago.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:52 am on Thu, Jul 10, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.

    FACT:
    29 rebel groups have ALL pledged allegience to AL-NUSRA.

    FACT:
    AL-NUSRA as pledged allegience to Ayman al-Zawahiri the leader of AL-QAEDA.

    FACT: President Obama's own State Department declared AL-NUSRA an AL-QAEDA terrorist organization on December 11, 2012.

    FACT: AL-NUSRA continues to post numerous videos of themselves firing U.S.supplied BGM 71-TOW anti-tank missles.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:47 am on Thu, Jul 10, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Please Christina...I'll try to make this as simple as possible for you.

    1.) The leader of AL-NUSRA along with the 29 rebel groups who ALL pledged allegience to AL-NUSRA have ALL in turn pledged their allegiance to the leader of AL-QAEDA, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

    This is MAINSTREAM MEDIA NEWS Christina! I have even provided you with links to Yahoo News and the BBC confirming the fact that the leader of AL-NUSRA along with the 29 rebel groups who ALL pledged allegience to AL-NUSRA have ALL in turn pledged their allegiance to the leader of AL-QAEDA, Ayman al-Zawahiri

    AL-NUSRA IS AL-QAEDA!!![sleeping]

    Yahoo News
    https://sg.news.yahoo.com/syria-jihadist-rebel-group-commits-al-qaeda-103520177.html

    BBC
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22095099

    2.) Below are the mainstream media links I have already provided confirming that AL-NUSRA HAS PLEDGED ALLEGIENCE TO Ayman al-Zawahiri the LEADER OF AL-QAEDA!!!

    Yahoo News
    http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-rebel-group-pledges-allegiance-al-qaida-154514151.html;_ylt=AwrTHQ5lWb1TNGsAUU1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcTYxZ2ZqBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDQ1OV8x

    Reuters
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/20/us-syria-crisis-qaeda-idUSBRE98J0DK20130920

    CNN
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/10/world/meast/syria-al-nusra-front/index.html

    3. President Obama's own State Department declared AL-NUSRA an AL-QAEDA terrorist organization on December 11th of 2012. Let me repeat that, PRESIDENT OBAMA's OWN STATE DEPARTMENT DECLARED AL-NUSRA AN AL-QAEDA TERRORIST ORGANIZATION ON December 11, 2012.

    PLEASE READ THE OBAMA STATE DEPARTMENT DOCUMENT BELOW!!!

    http://translations.state.gov/st/english/texttrans/2012/12/20121211139845

    One last question Christina: Why do you continue to ignore the fact that President Obama has been arming and funding AL-QAEDA?

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 10:48 pm on Wed, Jul 9, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    I guess I wasn't deleted...my mistake. I apologize, Andrew, for the double-barreled response to you; it is definitely overkill of my point. And, no, Andrew, I am not saying the president is supporting Al Nusra, I was saying that was what you should have said in the first place. You really did miss my point, didn't you? [sad]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 5:54 pm on Wed, Jul 9, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    The leader of Al Nusra along with the 29 rebel groups who all pledged allegience to Al Nusra have all in turn pledged their allegiance to the leader of Al-Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

    MAINSTREAM MEDIA NEWS! Look it up.

    Yahoo News
    https://sg.news.yahoo.com/syria-jihadist-rebel-group-commits-al-qaeda-103520177.html

    BBC
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22095099

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 3:49 pm on Wed, Jul 9, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Let's try this OK...[lol]

    Yes Christina, you are correct, "The president is supporting Al Nusra" a group that Obama's own State Department declared a terrorist organization on December 11th of 2012.
    [lol]
    http://translations.state.gov/st/english/texttrans/2012/12/20121211139845

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 11:29 am on Wed, Jul 9, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    Seems my original response to you wasn't posted...and I swear I didn't break any rules. Let me try again...

    Andrew,
    All of this conversation began as response to your post on July 3rd: "The same way they ignore the fact that President Obama has been arming and funding Al-Qaeda for 3 years despite Susan Rice's recent admission."

    My point was that the president is not directly arming Al-Qaeda, and then the song-and-dance commenced. Now, I see that you are finally conceding my point. The president is supporting Al Nusra, not Al-Qaeda directly. Thank you. Did it really have to take you so long? I realize that you like to invoke the name of "Al-Qaeda" for dramatic effect, to inflame the masses, so to speak. But please do so accurately and truthfully. To do otherwise is disingenuous and reminiscent of the sensationalism and yellow journalism of Hearst & Pulitzer at the turn of the century, and that is really a put-off. Maybe that's the problem a lot of people have with InfoWars--it isn't necessarily just because it's full of conspiracy theories, but that it is truly an example of journalism at its worst with its exaggerations, distortions, and scandal-mongering--all to increase their circulation or, nowadays, more "hits" on their websites to appease their advertisers. Either way, Andrew, I would suggest for in the future, stop relying so much on the sensational headlines and catch phrases, and focus on the substance. I personally feel your thoughts might be better received that way.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 10:22 am on Wed, Jul 9, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    All this is very different from your original post on July 3rd that began our exchange here: "The same way they ignore the fact that President Obama has been arming and funding Al-Qaeda for 3 years despite Susan Rice's recent admission."

    You threw Al-Qaeda out there because they are the group Americans fear and loathe the most, with 9/11 and Osama bin Laden and all. Most Americans don't know or care much about Al Nusra or the other 29 rebel groups you just now pointed out, but Al-Qaeda--now that will get their attention and ire! The truth is much more complex than your simple statement from the 3rd, but you wanted to inflame the discussion with your half-truths. My whole point in all this was that the aid to the rebels was not going directly to Al-Qaeda, and you have FINALLY given me that concession. Did we really have to go through all this song and dance to get to this point? Geeze!

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 10:00 am on Wed, Jul 9, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    I agree, Thomas, the Great Wa is great indeed. I always enjoy his posts and he often gets me thinking and often is a source of enlightenment. And, I think we're both making him blush right about now...

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:35 am on Wed, Jul 9, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Questionable sources? Bogus? Baloney? Seriously Mr. Heuer?[rolleyes]

    Walter incorrectly claimed that ISIL terror leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was not released by President Obama from Camp Bucca in 2009.

    I provided links to the Washington Times, CBS News, The Telegraph, ABC News, The Miami Herald and even the as far left as one can get Mother Jones Magazine all of which confirm the fact that ISIL terror leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was in fact released by President Obama from Camp Bucca in 2009.

    When did the Washington Times, CBS News, The Telegraph, ABC News, The Miami Herald and Mother Jones Magazine become "questionable" and/or "bogus" sources Mr. Heuer?
    [sleeping]

    I informed Christina that Obama's own State Department declared Al Nusra a terrorist organization over a year ago. Below is a link to the U.S. State Department's own website dated December 11, 2012.
    http://translations.state.gov/st/english/texttrans/2012/12/20121211139845.html#axzz36z2H5M34

    When did the U.S. State Department's own website become a "questionable" and/or "bogus" source Mr. Heuer?
    [sleeping]

    I said "rebel groups have pledged allegiance to the Al-Qaeda affiliated Al Nusra." Below are links to Yahoo News, Reuters and CNN.

    Yahoo News
    http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-rebel-group-pledges-allegiance-al-qaida-154514151.html;_ylt=AwrTHQ5lWb1TNGsAUU1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcTYxZ2ZqBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDQ1OV8x

    Reuters
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/20/us-syria-crisis-qaeda-idUSBRE98J0DK20130920

    CNN
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/10/world/meast/syria-al-nusra-front/index.html

    When did Yahoo News, Reuters and CNN become "questionable" and/or "bogus" sources Mr. Heuer?
    [sleeping]

    Mr. Heuer, I am not sharing with you "some ideas from questionable sources" that caught my attention. I am sharing the indisputable truth.[sleeping]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 3:09 pm on Tue, Jul 8, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    29 different Syrian rebel groups have pledged allegiance to the Al-Qaeda affiliated Al Nusra, a terrorist group responsible for killing U.S. troops in Iraq and one that is currently the primary fighting force in the Obama backed bid to topple President Bashar Al-Assad.

    MAINSTREAM MEDIA NEWS Christina! Look it up.

    Obama's own State Department declared Al Nusra a terrorist organization over a year ago.

    MAINSTREAM MEDIA NEWS Christina! Look it up.

    Arming and funding the enemy is TREASON according to Article III Section 3 Clause1 of the United States Constitution.

    LOOK IT UP! [sleeping]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:04 pm on Tue, Jul 8, 2014.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1459

    Another bullseye Ms Welch.

    [thumbup]

    With Andrew you must understand he likes attention but has no ability to draw attention himself so he shares with you some ideas from questionable sources that caught his attention. He believes if he shares these things with you you'll be as impressed with them as he was. He has yet to understand that only a certain intellect gets attracted to these things of a conspiracy nature. He is the classic example of the boy who cried wolf. After you follow his links and discover they are bogus or baloney you wind up having no confidence in anything he posts. The problem now is if he ever posts something of value we are all weary of the wild goose chase and ignore him.

    Now on the other hand you have undoubtedly discovered the timeless wisdom of the Great Wa (Walter Chang). He won't steer you wrong..at least intentionally, I mean, yes he will steer you wrong intentionally but it's to steer you right in the long run. Or is it the short run. He's intentionally unintentional but prone to mince words if you get my drift. Anyway you can't go wrong with the Great Wa and you'll enjoy a chuckle along the way as well.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 1:37 pm on Tue, Jul 8, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    Andrew, I don't know why, but I am unable to reply to you below, so I will have to do so here...

    prevaricate: "to speak or act in an evasive way" from Google. Or, from Merriam Webster's full definition: "to deviate from the truth."

    So, yes, I think it is YOU who is doing it. You often have a habit of picking out little tidbits or sound bytes to alarm or to show only your side of things or to evade, as is the case here with this discussion about Al-Qaeda vs terrorists in general being directly supported by the president. And then when I call you on it, you don't answer me directly but offer up the AECA instead. So often I have chased down your references and websites, trying to have an open mind. But not this time.
    I know the president is giving aid to "vetted" or moderate terrorist groups & I guess he's probably doing so by waving parts of the AECA. BUT, IT'S STILL NOT AL-QAEDA!!!!! And I still don't think it's treason.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:56 am on Tue, Jul 8, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "I don't know the details and I don't have the energy to research it" does speak volumes. Ignorance is bliss!

    P.S. pre·var·i·cate
    : to avoid telling the truth by not directly answering a question

    Who is prevaricating Christina? [lol]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 9:24 pm on Mon, Jul 7, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    Ok, then when you're talking about the money and weaponry being given to the rebels in Syria by the president, refer to the recipients as terrorists, not Al-Qaeda. Otherwise, you continue to prevaricate.

    As for the AECA thing, I don't know the details and I don't have the energy to research it. On the surface, do I think we should give weapons to terrorists, of course not. But I also don't pretend to be an expert or in the know about all the drama in the Middle East. I trust that our president (and I didn't vote for him by the way) is doing what he thinks is best for America's interests, just as Bush did in Iraq or Clinton in Kosovo. It might be ill-advised policy and many people may rightfully question it, but it isn't treason. At least in my humble opinion...


     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 4:02 pm on Mon, Jul 7, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Why did the Obama administration waive Sections 40 and 40A of the Arms Export Control Act (AECA), a federal law which bans the supply of weapons and money to terrorists, if they aren't providing weapons and money to terrorists?
    [sleeping]

     
  • Jien Kaur posted at 3:05 pm on Mon, Jul 7, 2014.

    Jien Kaur Posts: 137

    The Mr. Obama will be impeached for treason.

    Those like the Andrew Liebich who know the truth know that that there is no other solucion to this bad president. Some person must stop the bad president.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 1:54 pm on Mon, Jul 7, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    Andrew,
    I realize there is a very distinct possibility that the money and weaponry could fall into Al-Qaeda's hands, but it is not being directly given to them by the president, as you claim. The whole situation is a mess and I don't know where this will all lead any more than our own leaders probably do. But I do think it is wrong of you to be accusing our president of treason over this.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 1:26 pm on Sun, Jul 6, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "providing over $1.7 billion dollars"

    "providing lethal and non-lethal support"

    Providing to who Christina? The Easter Bunny? [sleeping]

    At least you didn't call a clip I downloaded from CNN an "Infowars segment" [lol]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:44 am on Fri, Jul 4, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Of course not Joe...and he hasn't violated the Constitution either despite the Supreme Court's 9-0 ruling. It's Bush's fault. [lol]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:23 am on Fri, Jul 4, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Yes Walter, despite the attempts by Politifact to debunk the truth by attributing this information to the Daily Beast and Red State the fact that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was released in 2009 has been reported by...

    The Washington Times
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/14/ill-see-you-guys-new-york-abu-bakr-al-baghdadis-pa/
    &
    CBS News
    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/06/18/de-blasio-nyc-vigilant-against-any-terror-threat/
    &
    The Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10891700/Iraq-crisis-the-jihadist-behind-the-takeover-of-Mosul-and-how-America-let-him-go.html
    &
    ABC News
    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/isis-leaders-ominous-york-message-doubt-us-edge/story?id=24166099
    &
    The Miami Herald
    http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/06/13/4176171/who-is-iraqs-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi.html
    &
    It has even been reported by Mother Jones Magazine.[lol] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-release-george-bush

    As far as a blind stupor...it's fairly obvious considering the fact that my video consists of a clip I downloaded directly from CNN.[lol]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 11:53 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 365

    Very good article from Politifact, thanks Walter. And, I also found the You Tube segment to be baloney. No where in her interview with CNN did Susan Rice admit to arming and funding Al-Qaeda directly. "Prevaricates"--nice word!!!!

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:42 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1846

    Awwww, come on Andrew. You don't expect the liberal low information people to believe that their idol barry is actually facilitating the spread of islam do you? Even though his actions are unmistakable and BILLIONS of our tax dollars are funneled to the jihadists, it just couldn't be so. Could it?

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 4:43 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Walt Posts: 1117

    "Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi"

    Moot point...

    He'll be dead soon enough!

    [beam]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 4:41 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Walt Posts: 1117

    "released by Obama in 2009"

    Andrew prevaricates and he knows it.

    Politifact: FALSE

    http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jun/19/jeanine-pirro/foxs-pirro-obama-set-isis-leader-free-2009/

    Anytime Andrew points you to Youtube video of Infowars segment, you already know with high probability, it's baloney!!

    Whose in a blind stupor??


    [smile]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:38 am on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Excellent letter Alex. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you will soon see, a blind stupor will surely ensue as a result of the truth presented in your letter.

    How can anyone ignore the fact that ISIL terror leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi was released by President Obama from Camp Bucca in 2009?

    The same way they ignore the fact that President Obama has been arming and funding Al-Qaeda for 3 years despite Susan Rice's recent admission.

    [sleeping] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7PaptUhpcE&list=UUYmRQMmaM1L3dtworv0opyw&feature=share&index=4

     

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