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Gay marriage, straight marriage are not the same

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Posted: Saturday, April 13, 2013 12:00 am

You cannot justify comparing marriage between two men or two women with the marriage between a man and a women; doing so would be ludicrous.

I think sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe. Do I have the right to express my opinion? Absolutely.

Are the president and our federal and state politicians and Supreme Court justices seeing that these laws are being defended? No, they are not.

Some people feel like accepting without a thought. Look at the changes that are being made to this country, then ask if you care.

Ben Coleman

Lodi

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Welcome to the discussion.

23 comments:

  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:33 am on Sun, Apr 21, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Run if you must...without answering any questions. This is a typical Liberal response after the questions begin.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:47 pm on Sat, Apr 20, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1404

    Pat
    You are all over the map here and more words don't increase the dialogue especially when you simply want to repeat what you've already said. I am done here this thread is dead

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:21 pm on Fri, Apr 19, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Only Rush (don't listen to him) does this?...better check NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, and even FOX on whether the polls are right. Dewey come to mind? Votes count polls do not...polls only serve to skew and serve up a possibility not reality. To consummate the marriage means to complete it...by having sex...possibly starting a family...or is that too old of a moral idiom for you? This being a fundamental of most religions and marriages. How do the g/ls do this? They do not because they can not without a third party...

    Again...you answer no questions just obfuscate by asking more questions. Come up with some concrete evidence once in a while. The g/ls, OW, OE, all want what they want...now...they don't give a stoot about what others want. Keeping a tradition of morals or values or thought by a Conservative is just as important to maintain as is a Liberal's belief in non-traditional marriage...Liberals want to smash the Conservative beliefs and replace them with theirs. The hypocrisy or insincerity is that it will never be a marriage...it will always be a gay or lesbian marriage. It will always be their invention. Even the Tibetan Dalai Lama Longchempa in the 3rd century did not condone g/l relationships as being appropriate...and that the reproductive organs were not being used properly and for their intended purposes.

    Adopted child's rights...if that child decides at the age of 12 they do not like the life style of lesbian or gay parents will they have the rights to be emancipated or the ability to find a different home? If a child is conceived by alternative methods...what rights does the donor have? Same question as above...what rights does that person have should they wish to adopt the child or the birth child wishes to leave because of the life style? In your ancient times scenario...were a woman not a virgin they were often stoned, killed, divorced, sold into slavery or prostitution or a host of other nasty things done to them. Hooking up was not acceptable until the 60s.

    Now the one thing you got right is "...the argument of g/l being loving and such is no so more true than those of straight parents." They are people. Like all people they include the successful and fallible amongst us. I agree. For the child the row will be much harder to hoe than in a straight relationship. Just my opinion.

    "...adopting children is irrelevant. All will have the same hurdles and I think you will find there are more successful adoptions than failed." The relevance is with the child, failure is not an option for them. 40 years of coaching and working with children tells me different. The foster child/adoption programs are like turn-stiles or puppy farms (how some treat them)...too many fail. Try talking to a 12 year old who was beaten (front teeth knocked out) and locked in a closet for eight years (he was no bigger than a six year old). Who suffers when it fails?

    mrh you stated: "I believe in intellectual freedom. Believe whatever you want as long as others are not harmed." I say again....Just a long as it is YOUR intellectual freedom and your philosophy, beliefs, morals, values and it doesn't harm your paycheck. I will add...it will harm your paycheck when the grand social experiment is implemented (if it is). When do we get to quit paying for all of these social experiments as taxpayers. Already we are paying for sex changes, condoms, abortions and other sex related "rights". I am tired.

    Let me ask again:
    As for mrgosnell...the liberal media has failed to mention this anywhere...do you know why? Isn't that something everyone has the right to know about? WHY do liberals such as yourself never mention this in your posts...where is the OUTRAGE from the Left? Where is YOUR outrage...the point is mrh, you will write volumes on gay/lesbian marriage but NOT ONE WORD in rage against such a man, let alone a practice by many other of his ilk. Try next time to use some of your intellect to figure it out...why should a Righty have to explain it to you?

    Where is the outrage and your letter to the editor? Or don't you care?

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:47 pm on Wed, Apr 17, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1404

    Thank you again Mr Crowder [beam]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:45 pm on Wed, Apr 17, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1404

    Mr Maple

    Thank you for the Rush Limbaugh lecture on polls that don't go in your favor. Of course polls that do go in your favor get an easy pass with no cautionary disclaimers. Thats the way Rush does it. The last election only proved that polls conservatives liked (where they thought they were winning) were wrong and badly wrong. There are reliable polls and if you follow more than one you can get a pretty good flavor of public sentiment. And what is the point of "polls are not votes"? Public sentiment is measured in open polls, votes are what you go after in campaigns. Election polls then should be looking at elligible and likely voters. We are not campaigning at this time. Honest. Report to any poling place on any Tuesday and you will be friendless. Oops I guess that isn't a reliable measure.

    And again what is this "...your (meaning my) occupy wall street..." again you don't know anything about me. I still don't get the discrimination complaint of yours. Straight people have to change? I'm straight and I don't see myself having to change. I have my moral values that don't have to change. And your "...They invented and devised the idea of marriage/consummation..."? Where in the world do you get this? Marriage evolved from exchanges of property, political alliances and sucession of power. Since ancient times people (Common) "hooked up" before they decided they wanted ceremonies like the rich people (and like today before they could afford it).

    The adopted child has no rights? What adopted child has rights? Do they get to decide if they have conservative or progressive parents? Do they get to choose the neighborhood they live in? Do they get to choose whether they are going to go to church or not?

    Now the one thing you got right is "...the argument of g/l being loving and such is no so more true than those of straight parents." They are people. Like all people they include the successful and fallible amongst us.

    Your tale of woes of adopting children is irrelavant. All will have the same hurdles and I think you will find there are more successful adoptions than failed.

    Give me a hint to your point "..you have never heard of an inter-racial marriage?" Like a lot of your comments I have no idea where this came from and an answer is redundant so a response is not possible. And you aks have I ever defended you? From what? Of course at least one post of yours a day mentions you are Native American (at least partially) so how is it you need defending? Are you experiencing some discrimination (besides government forms), I mean for your heritage, not your personality.

    You insist there is an agument that a "third party" may be utilized in having children. What is the problem? How is this an argument for anything? DOMA has nothing to do with children. Corporations, partnerships, I think you tend to take the romance out of hanky panky. A threesome can add some spice to your life. Just sayin..

    Evil is a word mrm, an English word that is used to describe sinister and dispicable traits. Evil was long before the bible.

    And when you say "...when a moral and tolerant person speaks up they are attacked...you must be referring to Martin Luthor King Jr, Mahatma Ghandi, Emmitt Till, Socrates, Galilleo, among othes?

    And finally to repeat there is nothing to debate regarding Kermit Gosnell. He is a monster. He is evil. The media has discussed him (Time, CNN) but it didn't catch on with the public. Thats my fault? When its all cons (negative) and no pros (positives) there is little to discuss. I would discuss it if it came up in a LTE just like other topics. Of course there are lots of monsters, all evil scum of the earth. White supremists come to mind lately or N Korean leaders. How about conservatives that want voter registrations and IDs to inconvenience voters while saying showing IDs or registering to buy a gun(s) is an unnecessary inconvenience. Or just ask Amnesty International they can give you whole lists of dispicable characters. I guess you will be writing a letter on Mr Gosnell to the LNS. Alright heads up. Incoming.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:55 am on Wed, Apr 17, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    It will take us to a place where committed same sex couples have the same right as committed non same sex couples have under the law. The law has to re-written because they were written to accommodate special interests in the first place.

     
  • Peter Bellville posted at 9:25 am on Wed, Apr 17, 2013.

    gopher Posts: 26

    I am always confused when I read an argument such as yours. What rights have gays been denied? Gays have the same rights as straights and have always been allowed to marry. Even two gays can get married with no stigma attached. A gay man can marry a gay woman. See? Two gay people just got married with no problem. Gays have the exact same rights as everyone else. What is really being argued for is the right for two people of the same gender to marry. Since gays, by my point of view, already have the same rights as everyone else, then what is being argued for is a different right entirely, to specifically marry someone of the same gender. I don't think laws should be rewritten to accommodate special interests, otherwise, where will that take us?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 11:23 am on Mon, Apr 15, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrh: I'm sorry...polls are not votes...votes are votes. Polls are generated and controlled by whomever invents the question and takes the answer. The last election proved 80% of them to be wrong.

    The hypocrisy or double standard is the discrimination by gay/lesbian bloc of voters...just as your Occupy Wallstreet and Occupy Everything else protesters were. I want what I want and you straight people have to change. Where are the straight/ DOMA people suppose to draw the line in their moral values or for that matter their spiritual values? That is their question. They invented and devised the idea of marriage/consummation (completion) maybe they should change that too? I don't think so.

    Adoption...not tight with that in the g/l lifestyle either...the child has no choice in the matter...and will be the person who has to defend something they may ultimately not agree with...the argument of g/l being loving and such is no so more true than those of straight parents. Not everything is bubble gum and roses. Having watched several young couples try to adopt foster children I find it interesting and astounding the amount of influence the birth parents have over the fate of the child...to the point of a law suit. Recently a couple sued the sperm donor for child support...? Another sued to get the child back after 6 years and won.

    So mrh: I guess you have never heard of an inter-racial marriage? You never note to yourself the mom is black and the dad Asian? Right! I know...you are not racist, you defend everyone's right to choice. Right! I am only recognized by the government as Native American because I am 1/4 blood quantum....no racism there. When is the last time you defended me? Right!

    Artificial insemination for all! Third party vote! No more s-x...! Who's your daddy? There are these methods and others...but they are from necessity and are not by choice in a marriage. In a g/l they are by choice from the beginning and they ALWAYS involve a third party.

    A corporation is a marriage mrh...a civil union of sorts...DOMA is not. It is the definition of a partnership of two...not three, four or hundreds.

    Have you noticed religion has not crossed my fingers...if we are a country of laws and morals and beliefs and duties, religion need not enter into the fray.

    mrh: Evil is a term derived from the Bible and other religious writings...as is most language and communications. All philosophies are derived from or involve the communicators thoughts and beliefs on religion, God, Jesus, morals, rights and paternities. WHY is it just NOW that these are being challenged? Acceptance? Polls? Votes? They all say no. It is because when a moral and tolerant person speaks up they are attacked...the bullies show up and try to smash them or the picture is painted on with pastel colors. That is why when it IS put to a vote, it is seldom in their favor...even in CA.

    mrh you stated: "I believe in intellectual freedom. Believe whatever you want as long as others are not harmed." Just a long as it is YOUR intellectual freedom and your philosophy, beliefs, morals, values and it doesn't harm your paycheck.

    As for mrgosnell...the liberal media has failed to mention this anywhere...do you know why? Isn't that something everyone has the right to know about? WHY do liberals such as yourself never mention this in your posts...where is the OUTRAGE from the Left? Where is YOUR outrage...the point is mrh, you will write volumes on gay/lesbian marriage but NOT ONE WORD in rage against such a man, let alone a practice by many other of his ilk. Try next time to use some of your intellect to figure it out...why should a Righty have to explain it to you?

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 3:31 pm on Sun, Apr 14, 2013.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    You are dead wrong. Fourteen times now, the Supreme Court has declared marriage to be a fundamental civil right.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 10:23 am on Sun, Apr 14, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1109

    Brian, the Supreme court will settle it shorty.

    LIVE WITH IT!


    [beam]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:42 am on Sun, Apr 14, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2821

    For centuries, to qualify for the PRIVILEDGE to marry is simple: One man, one woman.
    Now, what part of that is so hard to understand?

    MARRIAGE IS A PRIVILEDGE. NOT A CIVIL RIGHT. LIVE WITH IT.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:42 am on Sun, Apr 14, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1404

    Pat
    As usual your post makes no sense.
    Reverse discrimination if gay marriage is allowed? No, honest, heteros will still be able to marry. Not to worry you will still be able to marry whom ever will have you.

    Oops news flash. The majority now favors allowing gay marriage.

    Polygamy? Third partners? Adoption adds to a family unit. Been done for years.
    Artificial insemination is also an option for all. There are heteros that can't have children but this has all been discussed before and surely this is no surprise to you?

    Only you will keep the distinction between gay and hetero marriage. There will be no difference for most people. Of course you will be able to maintain your discrimiinatory views despite evolving attitudes.

    You and the "black" man may differ but you both can get married. However that wasn't always true for the African Americans. And guess what we don't say marriage for one race and refer to athe other as an African American marriage. We don't discriminate like that.

    So you support civil unions? Great to hear you are against DOMA. Because there is no marriage to civil union equality as long as DOMA is in place as written.

    I never called anyones beliefs evil. I called discrimination evil. And to foster discrimination against people who have done no harm is inexcusable and to merely say your fostering discrimination as simply an opinion is unforgivable and I have no rebspect for those individuals. To base that discrimination on some outdated gobbelty goop writings from desert tent dwellers bent on cracking down on the worship of carved idols is a form of insanity.

    Different idols different services and of course different fees for their different services. Thats where montheism prevailed. One fee for one diety for multiple services. Now don't look for any services rendered by any idol or diety except psychological. You won't find any. Nothing for your money and its lasted for centuries. And this is your basis for discrimination?

    I believe in intellectual freedom. Believe whatever you want as long as others are not harmed. When your beliefs want to discriminate against harmless people then they can be viewed as malevolent and totally against the professed "god is love" or the comandment to "love one another."

    And finally There is nothing to debate regarding Kermit Gosnell. He is a monster. He is evil. But what your point here is escapes me.

     
  • David Diskin posted at 10:21 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    David Diskin Posts: 181

    Who is the victim if we allow same-sex marriage?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:44 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The victims are gay couples who do not have the same rights as straight couples.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:23 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1109

    "Now it's up to the Supreme Court to settle it"

    Super.

    It will all be over soon.

    Sadness and despair will once again fall upon Archconservative/Retrogressive bloggers.

    They'll find no consolation in their old testament passages previously used as clubs to whack those they despise.

    All of it rendered irrelevant by the highest court in the land!

    Bada Bing Bada Boom!


    [smile]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:22 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1109

    PS. Attention Leviticus and Deuteronomy fans...

    This might be a good time to take the opportunity to discover the New Testament.

    After all, Christianity should be about Jesus.

    No??


    [huh]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:21 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1109

    PSS. Jerry, throw away Revelation too!

    No Jesus there!

    [thumbup]

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:14 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    This has now become an issue of discrimination? Against whom? Who is the victim? If it is allowed then it discriminates against the will of the majority...the family unit. That is just as discriminatory as the other.

    The argument for/against polygamy is a moot point as it is a system of multiple mates or spouses...it is still between a man and a woman under their religious doctrine and each is considered a family unit. In order to have a family unit a gay/lesbian couple must involve a third party of the opposite sex. This is not so within the heterosexual family unit...unless medical or physical conditions prevent conception and birth. If the argument is to create a family unit with two people the argument is again moot...it always takes more than two people to create a child in the homosexual context.

    If the gay/lesbian community thinks that their marriage will ever be a marriage in the sense of the family marriage they are sadly mistaken...reality will always treat their union as a gay marriage (their term) not just a marriage. The argument of equality or sameness is again moot...I can no more be a black person (I am Native American) than a black man can be me...we are what we are...we are not the same...we do not have to be the same...in my eyes there are a lot of people who are equal or better than I...but not everyone can be. And in this matter...someone is going to be wounded.

    I would support civil unions and partner rights. The unwed mother/father and divorce (separation of a family unit)(adoptive children are treated differently) debates don't work either...from all indications the failure rates among gay/lesbian relationships are just as dismal or worse...they just don't have to be litigated (not public)....which is another whole issue to be decided.

    mrh: If you want to talk about evil (a religious notion) let's debate Kermit Gosnell. Telling someone their beliefs are evil is feigned outrage and hurtful.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:12 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Jerome, the anger comes from gay couples not having the same civil rights as straight couples

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 2:40 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1404

    Jerome,
    Discrimination is evil and hurtful. When you say, oh its just my opinion you wind up perpetuating lies that destroy peoples lives and rob them of their full opportunity to pursue their happiness asAmericans. You are not forced to give up anything to enjoy your life to its fullest. Now I now marriage hasn't been kind to you but don't tell someone if they give up their preferences THEN they can join American society. Again you are not asked to give up anything unless it steals someone elses rights. Gay marriage robs nothing from you. Don't perpetute second class citizenship because of silly ancient writings of mysogenistic men.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 2:15 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2346

    I am absolutely confident that when it comes to the matter of same-sex marriage, there are a lot of people who care - and from both sides of the debate. Now it's up to the Supreme Court to settle it. It's interesting to read the trickle of comments to the many letters and columns printed and published in the News-Sentinel today. Most interesting is the anger from those who seem unable to accept not only other's opinions, but what others believe in their souls and hearts to be right.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 11:30 am on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1404

    Ben, everyone is entitled to their opinion but you have to ask where your opinion comes from and what is the value of that opinion. Please share your opinion on the different races while you are at it? Maybe you have an opinion on womwn as well? What is your opinion on brussel sprouts? I mean if you are going to wake up and have a opinion on something and it creates an urge to write a letter to the editor maybe you should ask yourself first is this my only opinionand even more important WHO CARES?

     
  • David Diskin posted at 9:20 am on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    David Diskin Posts: 181

    You have every right to express yourself. Rights are great.

    One right that some people don't have is the right to marry should they find someone they love.

    Ironically, others who aren't in love still have the right to get marry, as long as they have the right biological parts.

     

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