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Democrats have not been good for California, or the nation

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Posted: Monday, April 9, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 4:41 am, Mon Apr 9, 2012.

The fantasies of the nanny-staters never end! Mr. Lucas commented on my letter (on www.lodinews.com) about why taxpayers shouldn't pay for others' lifestyles, using assertions disconnected with reality. When a few other writers and I challenged him with facts and figures, he claimed he was from a long line of prosperous businessmen that could buy and sell us poor folk who dare challenge his indisputable wisdom, then declared that he would not comment again.

And now we have the tree-man of critical thinking (John Lucas), "Without critical thinking and trees, our civilization will collapse." As for the claim that two-thirds of the national debt has come under the Republican Party's watch, where did he get this little tidbit of knowledge? Media Matters? In just three years, Obama has added $5 trillion to our debt — more than all our other presidents combined! And you're right, Mr. Lucas, all the Republicans could do was "watch," with Democratic super-majorities in both houses of Congress. As for the crash of 1929, economists believe FDR's policies and intervention into the free market prolonged the suffering of the depression by seven years. Only World War II brought the unemployment down from 14-plus percent to 4.7 percent in 1942.

Look at our own situation here in California. This state has been ruled by the Democratic Party for decades. How's that working out for us, Mr. Lucas? We are being undermined by socialism from all sides, and as de Tocqueville stated, "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word — equality. But notice the difference; while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

If you want restraint and servitude to the almighty state, vote Democrat. If you want liberty, vote for conservatives who believe in the Constitution and our other sacred documents — hugging a tree while you're at it. Yes, Mr. Lucas, even us evil rascal conservatives love trees.

Ron Portal

Lodi

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103 comments:

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:11 pm on Tue, Apr 17, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I agree Jerry... which Is why I stay focused... Mr Portal wrote this letter to address Mr Lucas.. I am addressing Mr Lucas... so please take your own advise and respect the purpose of the : comment section"

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 10:39 am on Sun, Apr 15, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrl: Teddy Roosevelt said it best:

    THE MAN IN THE ARENA
    Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic"
    delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910

    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

    A word of caution to you: Don't take advice about skydiving from someone who has never jumped. Or...just because you read a book about swimming doesn't mean you can't drown. Or...everyone thinks they can run the business better...that's why he's the boss.

    Me thinks thee doth protest too much. Much like BO

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:06 pm on Sat, Apr 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Social Security will not work unless everyone participated in the program...
    Which means the answer to my question is … “NO” you cannot opt out... you see Mr Lucas , instead of hiding your answer in line 60, you could have just said no. The reason for the “no” is irrelevant.
    China, India and Thailand as well as most of the world does not have a social security program. They get along just fine. It is your liberal opinion that we need social security in the first place. It also is a blatant misrepresentation that everyone has to participate or it does not work. Every teacher in United States does not participate. Every person who gets STRS and PERS does not participate. There are millions of illegal immigrants that do not participate.
    There are several countries that have a social security program with opt outs that do work nicely as Newt Gingrich pointed out in the presidential debate. Your premise and conclusion is false.

    So let me ask again... other that it is your false opinion that everyone must participate to make it work,
    I think you proved my point. Liberals are very happy to force people to do what “THEY THINK IS BEST FOR OTHERS

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:52 pm on Sat, Apr 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Then spell it out Mr Lucas... stop with the slip sliding two step...

    Are you now stating that you did not tell me to leave the country if I felt so operssed that I did not want Social Security.
    The post had 74 lines in it Mr Lucas... you wright so many books online that I sincerely do not wish to read every word. But the words I posted about you suggesting I leave the country was stated by you.Like you stated... you are a liberal.

     
  • Jerry Bransom posted at 10:40 pm on Sat, Apr 14, 2012.

    Jerry Bransom Posts: 363

    What would make this even more interesting is if a bunch of jackasses would stop hijacking the threads and respect the purpose of the "Comment Section".

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:22 am on Sat, Apr 14, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell said:
    For example, when I asked you why someone should not be given the choice to take social security , in other words opt out, you said I should leave the country if I do not like it... so yes, a big difference between you and I. I would give you choice to enroll in social Security or opt out if you thought you could do better. .... you want me to leave the country as its my tough luck if I want to opt out...
    If you look at my post thursday at 6:51 pm you will find a detailed answer . You obviously did not read the whole post for the SS part was at the end. Amazing you did comment refer to that post ( it is the chest thumping one) but you did not bother to read it all amazing Have a good one Darrell

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:56 am on Sat, Apr 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Pat...your post at 10:37 am on Fri, Apr 13, 2012 demonstrated that you are a gentleman. I agree with you, Mr Lucas should have been a man and apologized to Mr Portal...and from my perspective, to you. At this point, it really makes no difference as any apology would be hollow now.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:49 am on Sat, Apr 14, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Yes Mr Lucas... if you have not noticed, this is an opinion forum... in it, you and I make opinions. and yes, I have noticed a difference between you and me... who hasn't.

    Overall, I do not appreciate people like you that desire to force people to do what they think best. For example, when I asked you why someone should not be given the choice to take social security , in other words opt out, you said I should leave the country if I do not like it... so yes, a big difference between you and I. I would give you choice to enroll in social Security or opt out if you thought you could do better. .... you want me to leave the country as its my tough luck if I want to opt out... my way shows respect for freedom to choose, individualism and self reliance, your way is governing with an iron fist and force... the way you like it.

    Thank you for admitting there is a big difference between you and I. Great observation.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:00 pm on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell said:

    Mr Lucas, you left off 70% of what you said... the person you called a liar was not lying in any way. What he wrote is a conclusion he drew from the words you wrote.
    He may be mistaken in his conclusion... he may not have it 100% right... but he is by no means a liar. In addition, from the words he wrote, I think he was very accurate in the interpretation of the words you wrote.
    Pat is very right. That you do not comprehend your short comings here is unfortunate. It also is telling about your lack of ability to be objective.
    A simple apology would have gone a long way. Now, it really does not matter.

    Do you notice the difference between my posts and yours? I put up what the other person says and then comment on it. You just make statements and express an opinion. When you said:

    Mr Lucas, you left off 70% of what you said... the person you called a liar was not lying in any way. What he wrote is a conclusion he drew from the words you wrote.

    You did not say what I left off. You did not say what words he drew his conclusion from. How can we have a discussion when all you really are doing is offering an opinion? What happens when ones does this it just ends up like this:

    you bad, no you bad, no you bad. Your mother wears combat boots. Well your father has boogers.

    It is pointless. I have a proposal for you. We will go over paragraph by paragraph of what was originally said until we are through with what Pat said and what I said in the original two posts. How about it? You up to it? Pat and the Liar can join in if they have the guts for it. The start was Pats post that really infuriated me. We will discuss that first then we will move on to my reply. This was Pats post:

    by men who had no connection to real life where you have to get down and dirty to earn enough to put food on the table,clothes on their family, and a roof over their head. EXACTLY Mr Lucas...you are speaking about me, my father, mother, brothers and sister, uncles, aunts and cousins...ALL of us have jobs (or businesses which are twice the size of a job)...I work everyday, from 5 to 9 not 9 to 5. I employ 8 to 10 people and am responsible for the welfare of their families by providing those jobs.
You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW. You might think you know what it is to be an astronaut but you really don't KNOW what it is to be one. LBJ and a few other Dems proved that your THRORY doesn't work.

    The important sentence is the following:

    You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW.

    What he is saying is that if you do not agree with his political ideas then:

    you have no connection to real life, you will not get down and dirty enough to earn enough to put food on the table, clothes on their family and a roof over their if you do not agree with his views.

    You will not have a job, you will not work extra hours, their is no way you can own a business with employees if you do not agree with his views.

    He gravely insulted every person who does not agree with his views because he “KNOWS”. He insulted me, every member of my family, every liberal poster on these blogs, every Democrat and a vast majority of the worlds population.

    The fact is if he had any integrity he would apologize for making such a statement. I know this will not happen. I have been on these blogs for a while now and I have seen only one person apologize or retract and correct something he has said and that was me several times over.

    We have what Pat said. I have stated my thoughts on it. Now it is your turn. Go for it.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:07 pm on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Wilson... sign me up... beer...Odouls Non alcohol drink... Name Id , Jon Doe
    and full bullet proof vest, green

     
  • Joel Wilson posted at 4:02 pm on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    flightwilson Posts: 16

    By the way nametags are mandatory, just so that everyone feels it will be fair and balanced. I can have a security agency there. RULES no iPhones. No recorders no news people ." Stand up or shut up" have a great day.

     
  • Joel Wilson posted at 3:51 pm on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    flightwilson Posts: 16

    Gentlemen; I feel it's time to have a Obama beer summit, does Lodi Lake area be satisfying? Personally, I would like to meet some of you guys. Everyone has a history, some good some bad and some of us with some pretty ugly history. If your security is in question. No worries. We live in a country that is free, unless you're from Chicago.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:28 pm on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas, you left off 70% of what you said... the person you called a liar was not lying in any way. What he wrote is a conclusion he drew from the words you wrote.

    He may be mistaken in his conclusion... he may not have it 100% right... but he is by no means a liar. In addition, from the words he wrote, I think he was very accurate in the interpretation of the words you wrote.

    Pat is very right. That you do not comprehend your short comings here is unfortunate. It also is telling about your lack of ability to be objective.

    A simple apology would have gone a long way. Now, it really does not matter.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:52 pm on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat, you can also get up and dance and howl to the moon but your assertions are still false. I have never denied making the comment and have stated that it was over the top. The liar took it out of context. It was in response to your stating that because you were well off and had people working for you that your ideas were the holy grail. This is what you said:

    I work everyday, from 5 to 9 not 9 to 5. I employ 8 to 10 people and am responsible for the welfare of their families by providing those jobs.

You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW

    The liar said this:
    When a few other writers and I challenged him with facts and figures, he claimed he was from a long line of prosperous businessmen that could buy and sell us poor folk who dare challenge his indisputable wisdom, then declared that he would not comment again.

    The first lie the LIAR stated was that I was responding to anyone else but you. Even you admit that I was directly responding to your diatribe.

    The second lie the LIAR stated was that I said I came from a long line of businessmen. I never said that.

    The third lie the LIAR stated and most egregious was "and sell us poor folk who dare challenge his indisputable wisdom". This was exactly what you were saying in your diatribe. Let me repeat that.THIS WAS EXACTLY WAHAT YOU WERE SAYING IN YOUR DIATRIBE. This stupid egotistical idea that your ideas should be based on what you have accomplished in your life and not judged on the merit of your ideas is what made me angry and prompted my response. The point I was clearly trying to make with the buy and sell comment was there are people who are more well off than you and work just as hard as you that view things different than you. Unlike you, I was not saying their ideas should not be challenged because they are well off and as you said "You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW". It is ironic that the Liar was accusing me of what you were doing.

    The Liar in one sentence managed to bald face lie three times. As to apologizing to the Liar. Do not hold your breath.


    Pat said:
    The buy and sell comment was made specifically to me...I have commented on it several times...calling people liars because you can't remember is hypocricy at its worst. Your credibility has just flown the coop."

    I have never denied that the buy and sell comment was made specifically to you. In fact this is one of the things the Liar lied about and made me angry. The Liar said that I was responding to " him and a few others". Perhaps you should take your complaint to the Liar as I was responding to your self congratulating , egotistical diatribe.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 10:37 am on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Lucas: You stated in your first comment on this thread: "Ron, you are a bald faced liar."

    My comment: " Mr Lucas: The buy and sell comment was made specifically to me...I have commented on it several times...calling people liars because you can't remember is hypocricy at its worst. Your credibility has just flown the coop."

    I stand by that statement and further suggest you apologize to Mr Portal...be a man.

     
  • Jerry Bransom posted at 8:42 am on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    Jerry Bransom Posts: 363

    And one more thing... I want us to start educating the kids so they will GET THE "H" OUT OF MY HOUSE and GET A JOB.. no Guv'mt jobs either. Therefore, Education is the best money we can spend, and the ONLY money we should be spending! And lot's of it!!

     
  • Jerry Bransom posted at 8:38 am on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    Jerry Bransom Posts: 363

    Wrong as usual Pat.. you do care. And rightly you should. Politicians that makeup BS committees and projects and subcommittees and hire secretaries and assistants and on and on and on... right up to Bush's new homeland security that did nothing more than add another 100 billion a year to the debt. What?? We don't have enough police in America? FBI, CIA, NSA, Police, Deputy, Constables? Pile on more Expensive BS. Obama hiring tens of thousands of people to make the numbers work better! The Superintendent of schools having Umpteen assistants to do what? Shuffle Paper? Then Retire with a Double Pension that WE have to pay for!

    No.. I DON'T want them doing their job. I DON'T want 30 people doing one mans job. Remember Pat - we would see 10 guys standing around and one guy with a shovel - Phone Company Pat.. Phone Company!!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:54 am on Fri, Apr 13, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    JB: I could care less who they work for JUST as long as they DO THEIR JOB!!!!

    I don't care what pot you come from...JUST as long as they DO THEIR JOB!!!!

    I don't care if they are Dem or Rep...JUST as long as they DO THEIR JOB!!!

    I don't care...JUST...DO YOUR JOB!!!

    That's the problem folks...they DON"T DO THEIR JOB!!! WE DO!!!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:48 pm on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Bransom stated...Daryl, real leaders are all around. They are the ~7% of self-employed people in the USA

    Interesting perspective. I appreciate that point Jerry!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:45 pm on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...If there is one thing I am sick of on these blogs it is the I am a great person chest thumping

    Actually Mr Lucas, I have not thought for one minute that the posts I read of yours, except for the one with buy and sell, were a matter of ego or chest thumping as you stated.

    I thing you are a sincere man you articulates his points very well and have kindness in your heart. You are very much an asset to society and most likely, very respected in your circle of friends and family.

    My conflict has been your perception of truth. I think it is one sided and biased. We have a very different view and reality. You are passionate about what you believe as I am and I am glad you take the time to post, even though...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:36 pm on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Tillett stated...Once again Darrell you never cease to amaze me... You are a lying hypocrite...without provocation

    Oh... without provocation? My we have a very short memory. I do not think you a liar, just my only enemy on these blogs. You started it. I asked for an apology... you replied...for what? I'm still waiting. You have attacked my character and essence as a human being like no other. I think I have been very polite and measured considering. Everything I post is a reflection of what you have given me since day one.

    Without provocation? In your dreams.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:51 pm on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    If there is one thing I am sick of on these blogs it is the I am a great person chest thumping followed by who everyone else is a moocher meme that everyone throws out around here. It is my experience that the vast majority of people work hard and are doing the best they can.
    Like most people I have worked hard most of my life, perhaps sometimes too hard. However, I do have a keen awareness of how lucky I am. The role of luck were drilled into me by my experiences in Vietnam, my families history especially during the Great Depression, and watching people who are far worse off than I am because they were not afforded the opportunities I enjoyed or life just stuck it to them. That last part includes a vast majority of the world’s population. There is not a day goes by that I do not feel gratitude for the opportunities I have been given and appreciate how lucky I am.
    When I was living in Mexico there was a kid that used to deliver drinking with his bike that had a little trailer attached to it. He had many competitors who had trucks but I always bought my water from him. I admired his hustle going up and down those hills and more than that I admired his joy for life. He got hit by a car and was severely injured and could barely walk. I saw him a year later begging in the street in a broken down wheelchair. There but for the grace of God go I. I used to haul tomatoes and onions to the canneries and onion driers and watched the people working the machines from my air conditioned truck. I worked 100 week after 100 hour week and made very good money, much much more than the people I watched. They made very little money working 7 days a week sunrise to sunset in 100 degree heat and were ripped off by the labor contractors on what little they made. The only real difference between them and I was that I had the opportunity and they did not. In Vietnam I saw some of my friends die up close and personal and others get horribly disfigured. More than that I saw the same with the Vietnamese except more of it. The difference is that I got on the big bird and came home in one piece. There but for the grace of God go I. If one is watching one can see examples of this everywhere.
    There is a question I have asked Conservatives numerous time including here. I will ask it again for I have never had an answer from them.

    In the 1930’s we instituted four policies that were the foundation of the creation of the greatest middle class ever created. Those countries that did the same created their own substantial middle classes.

    1. We instituted a highly progressive tax system.

    2. We regulated the financial industry

    3. We instituted labor laws trying to level the playing field between labor and management

    4. We instituted Keynesian Economics  
    Every country with a substantial middle class followed these four policies. All modern day conservatives are against them. The Conservative media from Fox News to Rush Limbaugh rails against them 24/7. The question is what nation has a substantial middle class that did not follow them? There is always a silence from the Conservative side followed by some Ayn Rand fantasy argument. Pat, Jerome, Darrell and the Liar have all been silent for their conservative paradise does not now and never has existed.
    It is obvious that all of our long term economic health depends on a robust middle class. One has to ask oneself why does the corporate elite and their media arm support policies that will always lead to the destruction of the middle class. Did not the crash of 1929 and the near collapse of 2008 hurt them as well? The truth is that they are interested in the short term and not the long term. They are going to grab as much as they can while they can and for everyone else it is just too bad. What about their dupes such as Pat, Jerome, Darrell and the Liar? Are they not members of the middle class and can’t they see that when it falls they will go down with it? The answer is no. They are blinded by the fact that though they certainly worked hard and prospered what they have achieved in life economically would be impossible without a robust middle class and history shows that all middle classes are impossible without the Liberal ideas that support it.
    Darrell asks about social security.
    Why shouldn't anyone who wants to opt out and decline a benefit, have that choice?

    Gandhi said:

    He who does not understand the connection between spirituality and politics understands neither.

    In the 1930’s after the crash caused by the political ideas you profess we had old people starving to death. It was decided by the majority of people through their representatives to stop this from happening in the future. It was a close thing. Those on your side who thought older people dying of starvation was a good thing put up a good fight. They lost. Social Security will not work unless everyone participated in the program. You see someone like you would opt out and life would pull one of its ugly tricks on you and you would end up penniless. Most people are not like you for they can not just sit and watch someone die and feel superior about it. I know you find that hard to believe. So it was decided that almost all would be required to join and it became part of the social contract.
    Unlike your constant whine about having to pay into social security some of us have a different view. I never expected to live to collect it but not for one moment have I ever regretted paying into it. The very gift of life with all its trial and tribulations is something I have never known how I earned. It is so beautiful. By paying into Social Security I was giving back to those who were not as lucky as I have been. I feel the same way about my taxes that go to Planned Parenthood, Pew Grants, the GI Bill, CHIP etc. You see that is the connection that Gandhi was talking about. We grow when we help one another. If we follow the policies of the Conservative ideology and Ayn Rand that you, Pat, Jerome, and the Liar so crave our economy will fall and we will be fast on the road to becoming Somalia.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:00 pm on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat, I did not lie. PERIOD

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:51 pm on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr L: My grandmother told me not to lie because if I told one I would have to tell seven more and then start over. You have started over. Just admit that you made a mistake and move on.That is an acceptable apology for anyone here. No one attacked you...that is fantasy...they just challenged your comments and made observations.
    However, I must say you represent the Democratic way very well.

     
  • Jerry Bransom posted at 12:36 pm on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    Jerry Bransom Posts: 363

    The trouble with California's huge DEBT involves one out of 5 of YOU! Thankfully I am not in that group as the only time I was offered unemployment or a government pension, I refused! The real truth here in California is that about 1 in 5 people is on some kind Government payout including most of the so-called conservatives in this forum. When you people can give up your questionable stipends, then you will have a leg to stand on in this type of argument.

    Daryl, real leaders are all around. They are the ~7% of self-employed people in the USA. The rest work for someone (~54%) or they work for the government (~20%). The remainder are the non-productive members of America. Of the larger group, even they have some government-funded advantage that the rest of us 7% do not enjoy. In the Government group, only Teachers get my full respect. The rest are moochers. Imagine this; in California there is 1 state government employee for every 5 Californians!! 1 of those 5 doesn't even pay taxes!

    Where is my personal State Employee when I am standing in a long line at a State Office?

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 7:07 am on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 555

    Once again Darrell you never cease to amaze me... You are a lying hypocrite.
    without provocation:
    Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:31 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.
    'How wonderful that Mr Tillet came of his lofty pedestal to grace us with the knowledge of what did not happen. Of course it is beneath this teacher to lower himself to status of mere mortal and share his wisdom of how this all went down from his perspective. After all, this is a high school teacher who graduated from Huffington Post University and whose perspective cannot be questioned. Please sir, grace us with your knowledge. How did this all go down? But remember, IOKIICFHPORT
    ( Its OK if it came from Huffington Post or a Teacher)'

    In your world you can lambaste me and my career, but I may not return the favor.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:59 am on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Tillett stated ...Wait... Who is being insulting? Oh, IOKIFYAD

    Did you perceive an insult? That was not my intent. I was simply reflecting you. If you perceive that I was insulting, its only because you were insulting... I only respond to what is given at the same level as what came my way. No more, no less.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:52 am on Thu, Apr 12, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...I did not say I felt oppressed... you are being evasive and silly now.... please answer the question directly. I was attempting to let you say it in you own words. This country is supposed to be all freedom.

    Why shouldn't any person be free to decline social security if they do not want it. What is the rational?
    If I do not want to buy a car, I have that freedom. I have the freedom to vote. There are many things in this country I appreciate.

    However, I have made statements that liberals like you are very happy to force people to do what they think is best for others. One such obvious example is social security... I do not want it, many others do not as well. Why shouldn't anyone who wants to opt out and decline a benefit, have that choice?

    So far your only answer is for these people to move to a different country... If that is your real answer, I'm I correct in thinking you think I and others should not have a right to decline something we do not want? You favor force... Please clarify if I said something incorrect.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:47 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell there is no doubt you were greatly influenced by Ayn Rand after reading her when you were young. I leave you with this quote:

    “There are two novels that can transform a bookish 14-year-kld’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish daydream that can lead to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood in which large chunks of the day are spent inventing ways to make real life more like a fantasy novel. The other is a book about orcs.”

    If you feel so oppressed move to Somalia. They have no Government there and you can live the life of your dreams.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 8:51 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 555

    Wait... Who is being insulting? Oh, IOKIFYAD

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:26 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history.

    I agree with Mr Lucas, the people have become so dependent.. so conditioned to depend on the government, that his prediction would likely come true. It is depressing that so many desire for our government to be the master who by force, requires its subjects to do as he thinks best. No Choice.

    I have asked Mr Lucas many times, and many times he avoided the response predictably.
    I am forced to take Social Security. I do not want Social Security. I do not prefer that the government takes care of me. I wish to take care of myself.
    I am not asking to abolish Social Security. If someone wants it, let them have it.
    However, if someone like me does not want it, signs a waiver that they cannot ever collect a dime from the Social Security System, why not let me and others have than choice? Why not allow an opt out for people who prefer to be responsible for themselves?

    I have never heard any liberal address this concern. Why? I already know the answer... Ill just keep it too myself.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:10 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Mr Tillett stated... And you are not an insurance peddler... (of course not)

    response... Mr Tillet is sarcastic and cynical. I question if a person like this should be teaching impressionable students in our schools. People like Mr Tillett have no real empathy or dignity for others ( in my opinion)...and cynicism makes a bad educator (in my opinion). If you've gone negative on people , like he has, then how will that affect others? Calling me an insurance peddler is about as insulting as one can be given the negative connotation it implies. Maybe Mr. Tillett should consider an alternate career?
    You do understand that cafeteria plan administration and claims adjudication is an industry that works with insurance industry but is independent. You do know that insurance peddlers do not do what I do.You do understand that just because I have an insurance license, does not mean I am a peddler. In fact, employees of many companies are reqiured to have insurance licenses simply because they communicate with the public and explain the contract provisions built into the insurance contract and may lead to a sale of a procuct... does not make them peddlers.

    Clearly Mr Tillett's cynicism and inappropriate comments shines through in his writing. One can only hope he does not negatively affect the students he has responsibility for.

     
  • Joel Wilson posted at 4:16 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    flightwilson Posts: 16

    Mr. Maple, thank you for your support in our community, for your business and paying taxes to support our community. "An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you just found out" take a guess on who said that? It wasn't a Texan.

     
  • Joel Wilson posted at 4:03 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    flightwilson Posts: 16

    Will Rogers was a Democrat in the 1930s, today most likely a tea party leader. His philosophy was don't let government be your leader in life. Lucas a few quotes from
    Will Rogers "If you want to know how a man stands, go among the people who are in his same business";" Be thankful where not getting all the government benefits were paid for."" Our Constitution protects aliens, drunks, and US senators." He was from Oklahoma not Texas with wealthy relatives. Have a good day.
    '

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:22 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat this is what I said:

    At the time of my attack at @4:29 on your rant K Lee posted

    The time of my attack was on that other thread. Go to the address I gave you, scroll down to where you made your diatribe. My response to your diatribe was @4:29. K Lee's post is right above that. The Liar's letter is about that thread. Our whole argument is about that thread.

    Mayor Koch of New York said it best:
    I can explain it to you but I cannot comprehend it for you

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:48 pm on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mr l: ms kl NEVER posted on this thread or subject. PERIOD. You said what you said and do not have the cajones to admit you said it...you remind me of the bar stooge that picks a fight gets his keester kicked and then claims to his wife that his wounds came from a bear that he got into a fight with while hunting for his car keys in downtown LA. Have you been in LA lately?

    Your defense: ms b???http://www.lodinews.com/opinion/letters/article_904724f7-f042-5644-8d21-5f1f4b87cbc8.html...THAT is a totally different subject and thread.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:56 am on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Kim,
    While your facts on history are for the most part correct you fail to provide any meaningful context to your narratives. To say that the Republican party and the Tea party, a subset of the Republican party, are politically the same as The Republican party was in the 1950's and 60's is simply not true.
    I appreciate the things you say about President Eisenhower. He was truly a great man and in my opinion the most underrated President in our history. His positions on civil rights were and are now an anathema to the deep South, the backbone of the modern day Republican party. He initiated the biggest stimulus program in peacetime in our nations history, the Interstate Highway system. He wrote to his brother:

    Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.

    The people he was talking about now are in control of the Republican Party. If Ike was alive today it is very doubtful that he would be a Republican. His daughter has fled the party. If he ran as a Republican today he would be primaried out. His values and beliefs are not in line with modern day Republican Party. In many ways he was farther to the left than President Obama.
    Your history of the civil rights era is mostly true but again you fail to provide meaningful context to your narrative. I would add one fact you failed to mention. All Jim Crow laws were created by Democrats. After signing the 1964 civil rights act LBJ famously said ,“We have just lost the South for a generation”. Democrats in the South fled en masse to the Republican Party.. Men like Strom Thurmond John Connolly, Trent Lott and others too numerous to mention switched parties. It was not because of a difference in economic policy. African Americans long a voting bloc for the Republicans now vote close to 90% for Democrats. Your voting count of Democrats voting against the 1964 civil rights is true but how many of those Democrats fled to the Republican Party after the act was passed? Context is everything.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 9:47 am on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 555

    And you are not an insurance peddler.

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 7:18 am on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 470

    More history..of the first Republican candidate John Fremont..Attempting to gain a political advantage in the absence of a military one, Fremont, in an unprecedented and unauthorized move, issued a startling proclamation at the end of the month declaring martial law in Missouri and ordering that secessionists' property be confiscated and their slaves emancipated. The action was cheered by antislavery Republicans, but Lincoln, concerned that linking abolition to the war effort would destroy Union support throughout the slave-holding border states, asked Fremont at the very least to modify the order.

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 7:11 am on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 470

    Here are some FACTS Ms Bobin about the Republican Party..In 1856 the Republican Party entered its first Presidential Election, running Republican John C. Fremont against Democrat James Buchanan. In that election, the Republican Party issued its first-ever Party platform. It was a short document with only nine planks in the platform, but significantly six of the nine planks set forth bold declarations of equality and civil rights based on equality and civil rights for African Americans based on the principles of the Declaration of Independence. The Democrats platform of that year took on an opposite position defending slavery and warning..." All efforts of abolitionists..are calculated to lead to the most alarming and dangerous consequences and all such efforts have an inevitable tendency to diminish the happiness of the people"
    Want some more modern history? "The Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, may have passed under Democrat President Lyndon B. Johnson, but not without stiff resistance from his own party. Democrat Senators Robert Byrd of West Virginia and Richard Russell of Georgia led the opposition. At the time, Democrats had 315 members of Congress, holding almost 2/3 of the House and 2/3 of the Senate. President Johnson needed only a majority- only 269 votes- to get those bills passed; but out of the 315 Democrats, only 198 voted for the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. Democrats had it completely within their power to pass these bills but did not. Republicans overwhelmingly came to the aid of Democratic President Johnson; in fact, 83 percent of republicans voted for the bills, a percentage of support almost 20 points higher than that of the Democrats. If it had not been for the support of Republicans, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 would never have become law- not to overlook the fact that the heart of both bills came from the work of Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower."

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 7:10 am on Wed, Apr 11, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 470

    If anyone ever wants to know where Ms Bobin is and would like to hear from her, just ask me to post something and she will appear like a magician's rabbit! I do not know why she loatehs me so much, but oh well. I, though a member of the Tea party, am entitled on my own time to express my views against the Democrat Party (which by the way I was a member of twice in my lifetime) And if the Democrat Party ever once again even resembled the party that JFK belonged to, I might become a member again! Also you very often accuse republicans of having no compassion, they are so against the little people, etc. If I am not mistaken you- or at least your husband has been ivolved in acadamie, but I guess histroy was not your long suit.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:31 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    jlukes My key board is getting bad

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:31 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Mr Lucas stated...No one came to the defense of your rant because it was not a rant or an attack. This is what I call Darrell Baumbach logic. It has no relationship to reality.

    Thank you Mr Lucas. I am flattered and humbled that you perceive that what I think has no relationship to reality.... Since your reality is my my reality( which I am thankful for),
    you could not pay me a higher complement than to confirm that I do not fit in what you consider reality. Again, I sincerely thank you for making clear I am a model for what you think is opposite you.

    Jeff Tillett posted at 6:24 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012... Talk about not taking responsibility, Pat.
    Your latest comment is not, in fact, how this all went down. But remember, IOKIYAR!

    How wonderful that Mr Tillet came of his lofty pedestal to grace us with the knowledge of what did not happen. Of course it is beneath this teacher to lower himself to status of mere mortal and share his wisdom of how this all went down from his perspective. After all, this is a high school teacher who graduated from Huffington Post University and whose perspective cannot be questioned. Please sir, grace us with your knowledge. How did this all go down? But remember, IOKIICFHPORT
    ( Its OK if it came from Huffington Post or a Teacher)

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:30 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    jeff
    I meant are you a member.
    also I am jukes there not jukes
    sorry about that

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:20 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Jeff Tillett said:

    But remember, IOKIYAR!

    So true :)
    Are you a member go the Great Orange Satan? A fellow Kossack? I am jukes there

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:56 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat said:

    You called Mr Portal a bald face liar and then proceeded to make desparaging remarks about me. I responded to the fact that you said you had NOT said your family could buy and sell me when in fact you did. You then proceeded to excuse yourself and go back to attacking my character and whatever else came to mind for you.

    The liar said:

    When a few other writers and I challenged him with facts and figures, he claimed he was from a long line of prosperous businessmen that could buy and sell us poor folk who dare challenge his indisputable wisdom, then declared that he would not comment again.

    I was responding to your vicious, mean spirited, egotistical, self congratulatory rant and not to anyone else. This is absolutely clear to anyone looking the exchange.
    The liar said that I claimed that I came from a,” long line of prosperous businessmen that could buy and sell us poor folk who dare challenge his indisputable wisdom”. If one reads what I wrote you know I never said that and in no way have ever said that how rich one is a barometer of the weight of ones ideas. I did say that there were people in my family who could probably buy and sell you. A remark I later admitted to being over the top. The point was not that because they are rich that their ideas carry more weight but that they have a different view of politics than you do. In your diatribe you were doing exactly that. You said this:

    I work everyday, from 5 to 9 not 9 to 5. I employ 8 to 10 people and am responsible for the welfare of their families by providing those jobs.

You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW

    That is your argument. Your ideas are not right because they are logical or well thought or backed up facts they right but because you are well off and work hard. The logic of your argument is flawed. What you are saying is that anyone who does not agree with you does not work hard and are not well off. I was simply trying to point that there are many who are more well off than you and work just as hard as you and think your ideas are wrong

    Pat said:

    "Ask yourself also...why didn't any of your liberal counterparts come to your defense?"
    You are now quoting a phantom post by K Lee
    At the time of my attack at @4:29 on your rant K Lee posted
    Wow, John Lucas! Great post @ 4:29 pm. Well said.
    There is no such post by K Lee here. In fact she has NOT posted on this subject.

    It was obvious I was talking about the post at the time of the original exchange which with a tip of the hat to Joanne is at:

    http://www.lodinews.com/opinion/letters/article_904724f7-f042-5644-8d21-5f1f4b87cbc8.html

    there you will the original exchange and you find k lee’s post about my response to your diatribe

    As to this comment:

    You then proceeded to excuse yourself and go back to attacking my character and whatever else came to mind for you.

    I really do not have to attack your character. Your own words convict you

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 6:24 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 555

    Talk about not taking responsibility, Pat.

    Your latest comment is not, in fact, how this all went down.

    But remember, IOKIYAR!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:23 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Lucas: You need to stop and get some sleep or some help.

    You called Mr Portal a bald face liar and then proceeded to make desparaging remarks about me. I responded to the fact that you said you had NOT said your family could buy and sell me when in fact you did. You then proceeded to excuse yourself and go back to attacking my character and whatever else came to mind for you.

    You in fact lied about what you had said and were caught in that lie by several of the people on this post. None of your liberal counterparts defended you because you had done as I said lied (forgotten). Thus my comment:

    "Ask yourself also...why didn't any of your liberal counterparts come to your defense?"

    You are now quoting a phantom post by K Lee

    At the time of my attack at @4:29 on your rant K Lee posted

    Wow, John Lucas! Great post @ 4:29 pm. Well said.

    There is no such post by K Lee here. In fact she has NOT posted on this subject.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:28 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Mr. Liebich said
    Mr. Lucas,
First you said, "The Republican/Democrat divide is a sham." and now you say, "The Left/Right paradigm is at the heart of what makes this country great." Seriously?

    I believe that 99% of Republican Politicians are owned by the Corporate elite. I believe somewhere around 35% of the Democrats are owned by the Corporate elite. The Progressive Democratic caucus is not owned by anyone. They stand for the working class and poor of this nation. Our Republican friends go crazy because the are supported by many groups including unions. They in their usual false equivalency way equate unions with corporations. Unions are groups of working people interested in maintaining the middle class. Corporations are only interested in their own profit.
    In most peoples minds the left/paradigm the two sides are ruffly equal in the amount of Politicians representing their interests. The truth is that about 65% owe their allegiance to the corporate elite and only 35% owe their allegiance to the middle class and poor. With corporate ownership of the media it is surprising that it is that close. The power of the corporate media is reflected in the use of talking point parroted by those on the right in these blogs.

    The normal view of the Left/Right paradigm does not accurately who is on what team.

     
  • Joel Wilson posted at 3:56 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    flightwilson Posts: 16

    Lucas "too paraphrase Bill Moyers an airplane will not fly well with only a left wing or a right wing" how is that possible? How about aerodynamics? America the airplane has to overcome for dynamic forces, lift, gravity, thrust, and drag. Thrust is the American people who are fed up with drag, especially parasite drag. Freeloaders on the taxpayers who do not want to work and not willing to find work. Lift is the American people who are fed up with gravity. The freeloading Democrats as Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, and our president. Who want to pull us down to other countries, such as Spain, Italy and other countries that subsidize with freebies that are paid for by American taxpayers.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:52 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730


    Pat said:
    "There certainly has not been any defense of your self congratulating, egotistical rant." Maybe you should ask why? Answer: It wasn't a rant or an attack.

    I attacked your rant. No one came to the defense of your rant because it was not a rant or an attack. This is what I call Darrell Baumbach logic. It has no relationship to reality.


    Pat said:
    Ask yourself also...why didn't any of your liberal counterparts come to your defense?

    At the time of my attack at @4:29 on your rant K Lee posted

    Wow, John Lucas! Great post @ 4:29 pm. Well said.

    It is one thing in the heat of an argument to write something as ugly and vicious as you did.
    We all get crazy sometimes It is quite another to look at such a vile piece of writing with a cool head and attempt to defend it. It speaks volumes of your real character.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:30 pm on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mr l: A rant? Me thinks not. A response/explanation...no name calling... no braggadocio just the facts. I say again...your explanation was flat and took no responsibility. As a matter of fact you just followed it with another assinine defensive comment.

    "There certainly has not been any defense of your self congratulating, egotistical rant." Maybe you should ask why? Answer: It wasn't a rant or an attack. Ask yourself also...why didn't any of your liberal counterparts come to your defense?

    Don't forget you can't buy me either...your or any of your rich hoards.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:05 am on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Mr. Lucas,
    First you said, "The Republican/Democrat divide is a sham." and now you say, "The Left/Right paradigm is at the heart of what makes this country great." Seriously?

    I have little doubt you are going to continue cheering for your "team" no matter what. Meanwhile, an unelected corporate elite is implementing a planetary carbon tax system.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:17 am on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat said
    I do appreciate the comments of others on my behalf...it just amazes me what many of us have to respond to or defend.

    This was your rant that I responded to:

    by men who had no connection to real life where you have to get down and dirty to earn enough to put food on the table,clothes on their family, and a roof over their head. EXACTLY Mr Lucas...you are speaking about me, my father, mother, brothers and sister, uncles, aunts and cousins...ALL of us have jobs (or businesses which are twice the size of a job)...I work everyday, from 5 to 9 not 9 to 5. I employ 8 to 10 people and am responsible for the welfare of their families by providing those jobs.

You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW. You might think you know what it is to be an astronaut but you really don't KNOW what it is to be one. LBJ and a few other Dems proved that your THRORY doesn't work.

    What people are attacking me for is one sentence of my response to to you. As I said to Mr Chapman:

    You are right, of course. In the heat of an argument I sometimes go over the top. This was just one example.

    There has not been any other criticism in my response to your rant except that by anyone. There certainly has not been any defense of your self congratulating, egotistical rant.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:43 am on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    I do appreciate the comments of others on my behalf...it just amazes me what many of us have to respond to or defend.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:41 am on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mr l: Your credibility is tainted to the point that an apology would seem like a mud bath. NO ONE can/could/would/should buy me or my company. You see, my company is not for sale, nor am I. It would be a waste of finger movement (save for one) to respond further.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:30 am on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Mr Liebich said:
    "All Republicans with very few exceptions are bought and paid for by Corporate America. I would estimate that at least 35% of the Democrats are."
    Good grief! Escape the false Left/Right paradigm Mr. Lucas.
    99% of BOTH parties are "bought and paid for."

    That we live in a nation that is politically controlled by corporations is self evident. This is not exactly news. The tea party and OWS are reactions to this and share many ideas about this though they have different ideas about what to do about it.

    The Left/Right paradigm is at the heart of what makes this country great. To paraphrase Bill Moyers an airplane will not fly well with only a left wing or a right wing. It is only when the legitimate interests of both the left wing and the right wing are represented in the political debate does the airplane, America, fly.
    Do I think those on the other side of the political side of the street on this blog are insane when it comes to their politics? Absolutely. Do they think I am insane? Without a doubt. So what? This is what America is all about. There are many other things about being American and are shared by those who are on both sides of the street politically. The vast majority of us play hard, work hard, are willing to put on a uniform and die for our constitution. The thing that binds us together most of all is the love we feel for our country.
    This clash of ideas is central to the heath and vitality of our nation. It is in that clash that we will find solutions to the problems that we face. It is the heart of what it means to be an American.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:17 am on Tue, Apr 10, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Mr Chapman said:

    Mr. Lucas, I am perplexed at why you were compelled to tell Mr. Maple you had relatives that could "buy and sell him". What does that have to do with anything?

    You are right, of course. In the heat of an argument I sometimes go over the top. This was just one example.

    Mr Chapman said:

    Or were you just bragging you have wealthy relatives that qualify to be in the 1% the OWS and LIBERALS are touting as being evil Americans? Ergo, you relatives are evil?

    The Liberals and OWS do not tout the top 1% as being evil. You are misrepresenting the argument. The argument is about the fairness of the tax code and other government actions that favor them over the middle class and the poor.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:11 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    All Republicans with very few exceptions are bought and paid for by Corporate America...

    In what way? do teachers unions, SEIU and the millions of people paying union dues count in this bought and paid for formula?

    I think most politicians are bought and paid for, but there are many players other than corporate America. for example, SEIU spent nearly $16 million on advertisements and other communications known as independent expenditures that overtly advocated for or against federal political candidates, with Democrats benefiting from almost all of them.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:54 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Pat, that it was specifically to you was one of my main points. It had nothing to do with any facts and figures he or anyone else challenged me with...

    Now we learn which family line Mr Lucas belongs to... Pinnokio...

    Pat had made a post as to how hard he worked and that he had the lives and responsibility in his hands of 8 employees. It was after this that Mr Lucas was outraged and emotionally blurted out that he and his family worked hard too and finally stated his family line could buy and sell him... not his company... him. It was because Pat had a small company while his family was much bigger and better.

    So yes, one could easily and truthfully extrapolate that Pat or anyone else of his size company could be bought and sold in the mind of Mr Lucas.

    I personally would not use that phrase under any circumstance and in my view is telling that Mr Lucas even thought to type the words...

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:02 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "All Republicans with very few exceptions are bought and paid for by Corporate America. I would estimate that at least 35% of the Democrats are."

    Good grief! Escape the false Left/Right paradigm Mr. Lucas.

    99% of BOTH parties are "bought and paid for."

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 6:42 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Mr. Lucas, I am perplexed at why you were compelled to tell Mr. Maple you had relatives that could "buy and sell him". What does that have to do with anything? Or were you just bragging you have wealthy relatives that qualify to be in the 1% the OWS and LIBERALS are touting as being evil Americans? Ergo, you relatives are evil?

     
  • Joel Wilson posted at 6:41 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    flightwilson Posts: 16

    Mr. Barlow. Thank you for helping me to remember where I read that passage. It had a great effect on me. I truly did not mean to steal a quotation from Mr. Scott. " I guess it's easy to blame the abundance of guns, and the lack of the teaching of God in school's. " Or to teach take" responsibility for your actions". What you might say to a loved one, or what actions of harm you might take. It only shows the lack of respect for another.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:26 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat said
    Mr Lucas: The buy and sell comment was made specifically to me...I have commented on it several times...calling people liars because you can't remember is hypocricy at its worst. Your credibility has just flown the coop.

    This is what the liar said:

    When a few other writers and I challenged him with facts and figures, he claimed he was from a long line of prosperous businessmen that could buy and sell us poor folk who dare challenge his indisputable wisdom, then declared that he would not comment again.

    Pat, that it was specifically to you was one of my main points. It had nothing to do with any facts and figures he or anyone else challenged me with. Your pomposity had angered me and I hit you with a response. My anger was heightened by the fact that though we are on different sides of the street politically we both share the same character flaw, that being we are both full of ourselves. The difference being that I am aware of this and you are not( ah yes always one up man ship). He clearly misrepresented what I said and who I said it to.
    What makes it worse is that he had plenty of time to challenge me here on the blog, He chose not to. He wrote a letter in the newspaper knowing full well there was no way I could defend myself or point out his obvious lies on the printed page. If you notice he has not defended his position here in the comments section. I will just have to add the word coward to the word liar.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 6:25 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Mr. Barrow posted, "I guess it’s easier to blame the lack of god then the an abundance of guns."
    Here we go, another LIBERAL screaming about guns. I have news for you Eric, a firearm is an inanimate object, it can not be the sole creator/ root cause of a death as it must be handled by a person in order to be fired.
    Approximately 56% of firearm deaths are suicides. About 51% of murders by firearms are committed during crimes, 80% of which are caused by felons, career criminals and gang member activities. Approximately 600 justifiable defensive shootings by both police and citizens.The remainder in accidental firearms discharges. I have legal firearms and a couple of times I was thankful I did.
    EVERY DAY over 2,000 people are killed in vehicular incidents. Going to blame vehicles for those deaths?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:57 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Mr Liebich,
    Your comment at 4:51 was the best comment I have read here since I have started blogging here. The Republican/Democrat divide is a sham. All Republicans with very few exceptions are bought and paid for by Corporate America. I would estimate that at least 35% of the Democrats are. That is why even when the Democrats are in the majority the cannot move on any thing other than a Corporate agenda. I really have not bothered to read your posts but you can be sure that mistake will not be repeated

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:51 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Milton Friedman was respected universally and Paul Krugman is respected only by liberals who wish to discredit conservatives.

    Milton Friendman did not hate liberals... Krugman hates conservatives. The difference in objectivity and professionalism is obvious. Krugman is no better than a press secretary for liberal causes

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:48 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Borrow stated...I don't see how someone can stand behind the theories of one economist endorsed by the Economist and completely ignore the work of other economist endorsed by the same source

    Just think Eric, it will come to you... Milton Friedman was a recipient of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, and is known for his research on consumption analysis, monetary history and theory, and the complexity of stabilization policy..

    According to the Nobel Prize Committee, the prize was given for Krugman's work explaining the patterns of international trade and the geographic concentration of wealth, by examining the impact of economies of scale and of consumer preferences for diverse goods and services.

    In talking about the subject matter at hand, Krugman's specialty is not related where as Freedman's is.
    In addition Krugman is extremely bias and considers himself a liberal, calling one of his books and his New York Times blog "The Conscience of a Liberal" . He has become so left wing in hs thinking that his opinions are subjective and not objective.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:31 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mr b: An educated idiot is still an idiot (apprarently you are). Academia cites many theories and hypothesis...but academia is NOT the REAL world... full of scary things like opinions, feelings, anger, vices, lies and greed...and SMARTER people than your dynamic hero mr kruegman. Many people THINK they know HOW to run a business but until you have ran one...with all of its subtleties, twists and turns...you only THINK you know how to run one...successfully...for 40 years. People write lots of books and papers...lots of people read those books...and laugh...then write their own books. Success isn't on a piece of paper...other than a paycheck...where the real world is. I can stand on my own mr b...I need no references.

    Mr Wilson: I appreciated your posted poem...a word of advice...put some quotation marks at the beginning and end...people like mr b are continually looking for ways to make themselves look smart. YOU are JUST smart and need no accolades.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 4:51 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    For a long time, American politics has been defined by a Left/Right dynamic. This LNS forum is a perfect example. It's always Liberals versus Conservatives on a variety of issues. Pro-Life versus Pro-Choice, Tax Cuts vs. More Spending, Pro-War vs Peaceniks, Environmental Protections vs. Economic Growth, Pro-Union vs. Union-Free, Gay Marriage vs. Family Values, School Choice vs. Public Schools, Regulation vs. Free Markets.

    Move past the old Left/Right paradigm. We now live in an era defined by increasing Corporate influence and authority over the individual. This may not be a brilliant insight, but it is surely an overlooked one. It is now an Individual vs. Corporate debate – and the Humans are losing...

    Consider:
    • Many of the regulations that govern energy and banking sector were written by Corporations;
    • The biggest influence on legislative votes is often Corporate Lobbying;
    • Corporate ability to extend copyright far beyond what original protections amounts to a taking of public works for private corporate usage;
    • PAC and campaign finance by Corporations has supplanted individual donations to elections;
    • The individuals’ right to seek redress in court has been under attack for decades, limiting their options.
    • DRM and content protection undercuts the individual’s ability to use purchased content as they see fit;
    • Patent protections are continually weakened. Deep pocketed corporations can usurp inventions almost at will;
    • The Supreme Court has ruled that Corporations have Free Speech rights equivalent to people; (So much for original intent!)

    None of these are Democrat/Republican conflicts, but rather, are corporate vs. individual issues.

    For those of you who are stuck in the old Left/Right debate, you are missing the bigger picture. Consider this about the Bailouts: It was a right-winger who bailed out all of the big banks, Fannie Mae, and AIG in the first place; then his left winger successor continued to pour more money into the fire pit.

    What difference did the Left/Right dynamic make?

    Keynes vs Hayek? Friedman vs Krugman? Those are the wrong intellectual debates.

    It's you vs. Corporate influence and you are losing...

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 4:42 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1591

    Mr Lucas what Mr Wilson just stole for us and passed off as his own is a poem by Darrell Scott.

    School Prayer was a primary focus of Darrell Scott’s testimony to the House Judiciary Committee in a special session of the U.S. Congress on Thursday, May 27, 1999. Darrell Scott is the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School Shootings in Littleton, Colorado.

    http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/school-prayer.htm

    I guess it’s easier to blame the lack of god then the an abundance of guns.

     
  • Joel Wilson posted at 4:13 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    flightwilson Posts: 16

    Lucas, word of WISDOM Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
    Your words are empty air. You've stripped away our heritage, You've outlawed simple prayer. Now gunshots fill our classrooms,And precious children die. You seek answers everywhere, And the question why? You regulate restrictive laws, Through legislative creed. And yet you fail to understand why the Constitution still stands? But the reason to be free of tyranny will always be a personal choice. So you must choose how you must die as a free man or the government says your times up. Have a nice day.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:36 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1591

    mrm that's correct except Krugman won his for his work in economics. Mr. Krugman received his B.A. from Yale University in 1974 and his Ph.D. from MIT in 1977. He has taught at Yale, MIT and Stanford. At MIT he became the Ford International Professor of Economics.
    Mr. Krugman is the author or editor of 20 books and more than 200 papers in professional journals and edited volumes.
    Of course Mr Maple does post at the LNS and can't seem to even cite a reference so who is the idiot

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:04 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1591

    Georgia Democrat Congressman Hank Johnson stated he was referring to the infrastructure of Guam but I suppose some on the right might assume a sitting congressmen could think an island would flip over. That assumption is exactly the type of low level thinking that Jeff is talking about. Turns out that Mr. Johnson was right between the marines and construction crews Guam would see a 45% increase in population.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:53 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Lucas: The buy and sell comment was made specifically to me...I have commented on it several times...calling people liars because you can't remember is hypocricy at its worst. Your credibility has just flown the coop.

    mrb: (Nobel Laureate) Paul Krugman???? That's like BO's Piece Prize!!! Wow!!!
    The guy is an idiot and hangs around with mr l.

    mr t: The HUFFINGTON POST???????

    Cal Trans!!!! lol GOOD one Musto!!!!

    Baxter: Hot on the trail of wisdom....good comments: NESCIENT: Blissfully so!!

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 2:34 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 555

    Thanks for demonstrating the point Gary. Here a less menacing link for you. http://m.psp.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/03/16/0146167212439213.abstract?rss=1

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:04 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Gary, I have to admit your logical processes never cease to amaze me. Your failure to grasp what someone is saying and ability to go off on some weird tangent are truly world class.

    Gary said:

    Space aliens were attacking us during WW II??

    Obviously I was not referring Space aliens. It was intuitively obvious to the most causal observer that I was talking about the buildup Mr Krugman was advocating.


    Gary said

    Did it take only 18 months to defeat Japan and Germany??

    Mr Krugman was referring to how long he thought it would take for the slump to be over. How long the war is not germane to the argument.

    Gary said:

    In regards to your post regarding the need for Obamacare, you wrote, "All other developed nations view healthcare in much the same way we view our roads."

    Well if that's true John shouldn't we be turning our health care system over to Cal Trans??

    This is such funny example of your logical process that I barely could stop laughing. No Gary I was not advocating turning our health care system to Cal Trans. You are probably the only person in the universe that thinks that was what I was saying. You might be the only person in the world that this idea would even pop into their head. The tangents your mind goes on are truly amazing and are valuable for their entertainment value alone. Please keep blogging.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 1:44 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1905

    BOBBIN, actually, I have agreed with some of your posts. I can even disagree with you and be nice about it. It was YOU, way back, that started with the venemous personal attacks when you disagreed with MY posts. My old Pappy told me, you get what you give. Perhaps you should digest that wisdom.

     
  • Gary Musto posted at 1:38 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Gary Musto Posts: 506

    Nice try Jeff, quoting an article from the Huffington Post about how conservatives are not as bright as liberals, it would be funny if you would have put in the part of how test results were bases on bar patrons drinking habits. Next time just use the DNC website or ask John Lucas, if he don't know, it ain't worth knowing.

    Talking about brilliant thinking Democrats, did you happen to read about Georgia Democrat Congressman Hank Johnson, who in House hearings on military deployment, worried about the 8,000 new Marines and other navel personnel who were to be stationed on the island of Guam??

    "My fear that the whole island will become so overly populated that "it will tip over and capsize."

    Was that story featured in the Huffington Post next to the research done on drunks???

     
  • Gary Musto posted at 1:19 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Gary Musto Posts: 506

    "Is not what Mr. Klugman saying the same thing that happened in World War ll?" John Lucas.

    Space aliens were attacking us during WW II?? Did it take only 18 months to defeat Japan and Germany??

    In regards to your post regarding the need for Obamacare, you wrote, "All other developed nations view healthcare in much the same way we view our roads."

    Well if that's true John shouldn't we be turning our health care system over to Cal Trans??

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:13 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Coming from you, Mr. Baxter, I will take that as a compliment. If you ever agreed with anything I said here, I would have to believe I had lost my mind.

    "I am hoping I will eventually stop laughing over the HYPOCRISY of this post ..."

    I believe that distinction actually goes to Ms. Parigoris who consistently states that Republicans are just as bad as Democrats, but launched into a lengthy anti-Democrat rant here.

    Perhaps a refresher is needed to protect your tax-exempt status:

    "The Patriots are unique from the others because we are a 501(c)(4) "education group." That means we are prohibited by federal law from affiliation with or funding from any political party or Political Action Committee."

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 1:03 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 555

    Conservative Politics, 'Low-Effort' Thinking Linked In New Study
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/07/conservative-politics-low-effort-thinking_n_1410448.html

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:41 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Gary Musto said:

    Here is one way Mr. Krugman proposes to stimulate the US economy, this quote from Mr. Krugman was aired on CNN, August 14, 2011.
    "If we discovered that space aliens were planning to attack, and we needed a massive build up to counter the space alien threat, and inflation, and budget deficits took secondary place to that, this slump would be over in 18 months."

    Well Eric, Krugman's ideas are certainly out of this world.

    Is not what Mr Krugman saying exactly what happened in WW II? Our own actual experience says that he is right. Mr Krugman’s ideas are not out of this world but they certainly out of your world.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:19 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joanne, thank you so much for the link to the actual exchange that Mr Portal is lying about.

    This is Mr Portal lying:
    When a few other writers and I challenged him with facts and figures, he claimed he was from a long line of prosperous businessmen that could buy and sell us poor folk who dare challenge his indisputable wisdom, then declared that he would not comment again.

    This is Pat Maples’s facts and figures that Mr Portal in his lying said I was challenged with:

    Pat Maple said:

    by men who had no connection to real life where you have to get down and dirty to earn enough to put food on the table,clothes on their family, and a roof over their head. EXACTLY Mr Lucas...you are speaking about me, my father, mother, brothers and sister, uncles, aunts and cousins...ALL of us have jobs (or businesses which are twice the size of a job)...I work everyday, from 5 to 9 not 9 to 5. I employ 8 to 10 people and am responsible for the welfare of their families by providing those jobs.

    You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW. You might think you know what it is to be an astronaut but you really don't KNOW what it is to be one. LBJ and a few other Dems proved that your THRORY doesn't work.


    Is there a single fact or figure in this self glorifying , egotistical rant? If there is I do not see it. The sentence "You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW." is so telling of his mindset. He is saying that he is such a super human that any idea some lowly sub human like me is beneath consideration. He is saying that ideas and facts do not matter only his opinion is valid because his grand life experience trumps everything.

    This was my reply:

    Just who do think you are? I will have know that there has never been a person in my family who was on welfare. We are doctors, lawyers, judges, business people, farmers, teachers, truck drivers, police officers and many other occupations to many to mention. If you only have 8 to 10 people working for you there are any number of people in my family who could buy and sell you. My family has fought in nearly every war here since before the revolution. All my uncles were in WW II, My brother spent a year in Vietnam and I spent 19 months there leaving some blood on the ground.
    
We vote Democratic. Why? We know History. The Great Depression was preceded by 8 years insane Conservative policies. The Biggest financial disaster since that time in 2008 was preceded by 8 years insane Conservative policies. We are not stupid. What you advocate on a daily basis here are the same policies that caused both these financial disasters.

    Do you think you are the only person in the world who has worked long hours? I did not know what a weekend was until I was in my 50’s. I have worked 100 hour weeks for months on end in my life. What really bothers me is your self righteous arrogance. You are so busy making Personal attacks on people I find it hard to believe you get any work done. Do you get off calling people names? Is your life so shallow and you so mean spirited that things like gratitude, compassion, empathy, forbearance, forgiveness, generosity, humility can find no place in your being?
My family votes Democratic for these reasons also
    
1.There but for the grace of God go I

    2.Take the log out of your eye before you worry about the mote in your brothers

    3.Let him who is without stone cast the first stone
    
4.Do unto others as you would have do unto you

    5.You cannot serve God and money
    
6.Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
    
You are probably one our self righteous right wing Christian brothers. That may be true but you are no follower of Jesus. You are just a fan.

    Look at what the words I wrote .Does it bear any resemblance to what Mr Portal's representation of the actual exchange? I repeat, Mr Portal is a liar. If he had an once of integrity he would apologize. I will not hold my breath.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 12:01 pm on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1905

    should be 'NESCIENT", not necient. Sorry Joanne, beat you to the punch.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 11:56 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1905

    BOBBIN posted, "Mr. Lucas - there is no point in arguing FACTS with conservatives in this forum. Even when confronted with the actual text of a law or what someone was caught on video saying they will all dispute the facts and call you a liar.

    Some type of mental issue, I suspect, that precludes conservatives from seeing reality.

    I am hoping I will eventually stop laughing over the HYPOCRISY of this post from our very own necient poster, Joanne "nobody knows anything but me" Bobin. Truly one of her finest moments, Yee Haw !!!

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 11:42 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 470

    California lost twice as many businesses in 2011, as were lost in 2010. Intel has said they will never build another plant here and Apple announced that they will build a huge plant in North Carolina- these are companies founded here that have obviously decided that doing business in Calfiornia is not a prudent decision. Duboous climate change ,and the Democrats and Sierra Club members that embrace its dogma, are going to prove to be the demise of this once great state. AB32 is going to cost the taxpayers of California 450 billion dollars by 2020- passed by Democrats (yes,signed by RINO Schwarzenegger Mr Bobin- beat you to the punch) SB375 extorts our counties and city governments by withholding transportation dollars unless it is for Transit Oriented Development (Smart Growth) Passed by Democrats. mandates made by Democrats state that we have to have 30% renewable energy by 2020. With solar plants shutting down left and right because of bankruptcy, windmills on the radar because of bird deaths, and plans to tear down 4 dams up north- what is going to be renewable- rubbing 2 sticks together? No, that would use trees...Yes, the Dems are just doing a fantastic job of running this state..

     
  • Gary Musto posted at 11:08 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Gary Musto Posts: 506

    Eric praises NY Times far left economist Paul Krugman on his take how the Republicans have hurt this economy.

    Here is one way Mr. Krugman proposes to stimulate the US economy, this quote from Mr. Krugman was aired on CNN, August 14, 2011.

    "If we discovered that space aliens were planning to attack, and we needed a massive build up to counter the space alien threat, and inflation, and budget deficits took secondary place to that, this slump would be over in 18 months."

    Well Eric, Krugman's ideas are certainly out of this world.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 9:12 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1507

    " Never mind that Clinton had gutted the military and Reagan was almost forced to rebuild which contributed to the deficit..."

    Darrell: You mean Carter, not Clinton, right?

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:48 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1591

    California fares poorly on many national rankings of business climate, particularly those focused on taxes and the cost of doing business. Yet over the past 30 years, the state’s economy has grown at roughly the same rate as the national average. What is the explanation for this California puzzle? The state’s natural advantages such as its mild climate and longer-term factors like its industry mix are more strongly associated with economic growth than the measures included in business climate rankings. This is a key finding of a study released today by the Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC).

    http://www.ppic.org/main/pressrelease.asp?p=1113

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:21 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Lucas - there is no point in arguing FACTS with conservatives in this forum. Even when confronted with the actual text of a law or what someone was caught on video saying they will all dispute the facts and call you a liar.

    Some type of mental issue, I suspect, that precludes conservatives from seeing reality.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:19 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Lucas's actual comment: "You are one of those who THINK they know...people like me KNOW. You might think you know what it is to be an astronaut but you really don't KNOW what it is to be one. LBJ and a few other Dems proved that your THEORY doesn't work. Just who do think you are? I will have know that there has never been a person in my family who was on welfare. We are doctors, lawyers, judges, business people, farmers, teachers, truck drivers, police officers and many other occupations to many to mention. If you only have 8 to 10 people working for you there are any number of people in my family who could buy and sell you. My family has fought in nearly every war here since before the revolution. All my uncles were in WW II, My brother spent a year in Vietnam and I spent 19 months there leaving some blood on the ground."

    Mr. Lucas - you can find it at:
    http://www.lodinews.com/opinion/letters/article_904724f7-f042-5644-8d21-5f1f4b87cbc8.html

    As you can see, Mr. Portal took his comment out of context of his entire statement.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 7:51 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1591

    Another award winning economist (Nobel Laureate) Paul Krugman has written extensivly about Republican policies and how they hurt this country. The Economist Magazine has listed Krugman's writings as important reads every month of the current year and multiple times in the last few months. I don't see how someone can stand behind the theories of one economist endorsed by the Economist and completly ignore the work of other economist endorsed by the same source.

     
  • Gary Musto posted at 7:47 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Gary Musto Posts: 506

    Outstanding letter Ron Portal, you showed the problem John has with the truth and how he tries to rewrite history to fit his political agenda.

    He apologizes for conveniently leaving out the massive amount of debt Obama has piled on this nation, how typical of him, everyone of his failed attempts to defend the Democrats falls flat after someone presents him with the facts.

    John reacts to the truth like a vampire to sunlight.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:29 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...I will be nice and only say this is a misrepresentation and not a lie. Economists who believe FDR's policies and intervention into the free market prolonged the suffering of the depression by seven years are in a decided minority...

    There he goes again, leaving out important facts that does not help his position...which economists disagrees with his opinion...

    A survey of economists ranked Mlton Friedman( Nobel Laureate) as the second most popular economist of the twentieth century behind John Maynard Keynes, and The Economist described him as "the most influential economist of the second half of the 20th century…possibly of all of it...

    FDR's Folly: How Roosevelt and His New Deal Prolonged the Great Depression
    Jim Powell
    Random House Digital, Inc.
    September 28, 2004
    "Admirers of FDR credit his New Deal with restoring the American economy after the disastrous contraction of 1929. Truth to tell as Powell demonstrates without a shadow of a doubt the New Deal hampered recovery from the contraction, prolonged and added to unemployment, and set the stage for ever more intrusive and costly government. Powell's analysis is thoroughly documented, relying on an impressive variety of popular and academic literature both contemporary and historical." - Milton Friedman, Nobel Laureate, Hoover Institution

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:08 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    "Ronald Reagan worked with [Democratic Speaker] Tip O’Neill and Democrats to cut spending, raise revenues and reform Social Security," Obama said Saturday in his weekly address, noting that "that kind of cooperation should be the least you expect from us."

    Even Obama can find wonderful contributions Reagan made... even Obama...

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:56 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Ron said:

    As for the crash of 1929, economists believe FDR's policies and intervention into the free market prolonged the suffering of the depression by seven years.

    I will be nice and only say this is a misrepresentation and not a lie. Economists who believe FDR's policies and intervention into the free market prolonged the suffering of the depression by seven years are in a decided minority and they have written a few books with that thesis. I know they have pushed on Fox news and other conservative media but it is definitely a minority view. Your wording implies that all economists share that view. This is simply not true.


    Only World War II brought the unemployment down from 14-plus percent to 4.7 percent in 1942.

    In 1945 the unemployment rate went down to 1.9%. World War II in economic terms was the biggest stimulus package in the history of the United States and we know your position on stimulus programs. You have said and the economists you tout say they do not work. It was costly. Our Debt/GDP ratio was 121/100 as opposed to 100/100 today. We got the economy going and got that ratio way down with Democratic policies resulting in robust economic growth. Unfortunately,we elected Ronald Reagan and the results of his conservative revolution are all around us. A mounting debt spiral and a near crash in 2008. The same policies led to the crash of 1929. Jesus saw selfishness and greed as sins. Our Republican friends see them as virtues and Conservative icon such as Rush and Sean Hannity have said so publicly. That is the core of the argument.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:55 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Reagan on a percentage basis increased the deficit from what he inherited more than anyone..

    and there he goes again... another biased book that needs a little help.

    I am thankful that Ron wrote such an accurate informative letter to demonstrate the irrational thought as well as distortions liberals like Mr Lucas hopes to fool people with...
    During the time Republicans are in power, Mr Lucas insists it is 100% the result of any thing he thinks is negative is a direct result of only Republican policies. Never mind that Clinton had gutted the military and Reagan was almost forced to rebuild which contributed to the deficit...Never mind that Tax revenue increased when the tax rate was dramatically reduced, never mind that Reagan was forced to negotiate with hostile democrats that controlled the purse strings(The House) for his entire eight years . Never mind that the democrats made sure Reagan could not focus on the economy as they brought up a phoney Iran/Contra dispute that Oliver North so clearly demonstrated . I still remember the embarrassed ashamed looks on the democrats faces after North's testimony.
    Clearly Mr Lucas focuses on statistics and narrow focused information that supports his contentions and ignores the positives that republicans contribute.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:53 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730


    Ron said:
    As for the claim that two-thirds of the national debt has come under the Republican Party's watch, where did he get this little tidbit of knowledge? Media Matters? In just three years, Obama has added $5 trillion to our debt — more than all our other presidents combined!
    Obama has not reached 5 trillion but will by the end of the year. To your comment his debt is more than all other Presidents combined I did some research

    Column 1 is the administration
    Column 2 is the total debt at the end of their administration
    column 3 is the debt accrued under that administration
    Column 4 is the percentage increase of that administration

    1 2 3 4
    Carter $930 billion $277 billion 42%
    Reagan $2,684 billion $1,754 billion 189%
    Bush 1 $4,177 billion $1,494 billion 55.6%
    Clinton $5662 billion $1485 billion 36%
    Bush 2 $10,669 billion $5007 billion 89%

    Republican administration total debt increase in billions of dollars $8225
    Democratic administration total debt increase in billions of dollars $1762

    Yes, for my 2/3 figure I quoted, I did not include Obama and I should have clearer about that. For that I apologize. I also apologize for my 2/3 figure. Actually the Republicans ran up closer to 80%(78% and change) rather than the 66% figure. What I found out really surprised me. Reagan on a percentage basis increased the deficit from what he inherited more than anyone.I was sure it was GW. For Obama to achieve what Reagan did he would have to leave us a 30 trillion dollar deficit. On a dollar basis the rankings in increasing the national debt are as follows:
    Bush 2
    Reagan
    Bush 1
    Clinton
    Carter
    On a percentage basis the rankings in increasing the national debt are as follows:
    Reagan
    Bush 2
    Bush 1
    Carter
    Clinton
    So much for Republican Conservatives being fiscally conservative.

    Ron, you and your fellow Republicans kill me with your whining about how Obama is deliberately increasing the debt. You elect George W Bush (the name Republicans have seemed to forgot) have both house of congress for 6 years and shove your agenda down America's throat. You shove as much money as you can with insane tax cuts to the top 1/10 of one percent of the income earners. You turn over the treasury to the lobbyists and special interests. You strip as many financial regulations as you can for wall street with a little help from Bill Clinton (repealing Glass-Steagal). You ram through a drug entitlement that gives the drug companies 20 billion dollars over the market price a year. You start a war in Iraq for no reason any reasonable person can think of which will end up costing us at least a trillion dollars. You create the greatest financial crisis since 1929. When GW leaves office we were shedding over 700,000 jobs A MONTH. The American people are so desperate they actually elect a black man something I never would happen in my lifetime.(by the way I moved to PA just so i could vote for him and my vote count). Now you whining because he did not turn this disaster your policies created on a dime. If you tea party types were in charge Detroit would be dead, Osama would be alive, unemployment would be at 25% and we would probably be in the mist of a revolution. Your policies have a track record.


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:27 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Jerry Bransom posted at 4:01 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012...Maybe an intelligent leader rather than yet another sheepish follower could tell me the difference between repubicans and democrats?..

    Jerry, can you give examples of people you perceive to be intelligent leaders ? Since you do not see the difference between the two parties, and you think an intelligent leader might be able to articulate what it is you have question about, giving an exampple of such leaders might help in understanding where you are coming from.
    For me it is obivous, but I am sure my perspective is not welcome by you.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:05 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ron, great article and yes, you were very truthful. Unfortunately, Mr Lucas would like to forget
    how pompous and mean spirited. he was. What else could one expect from such a person dedicated to hate and to destroy conservatives. I even baited him by stating I perceived he was a liberal that should be defeated ... he responded that he thinks conservatives need to be defeated, demonstrating his animosity toward me... When he came out and said members of his family could buy and sell Pat Maple , I was not surprised at all. I think you accurately described the intentions of Mr Lucas who demonstrates what he perceives as his superiority intellectually and economically that I perceive as snobbishness.

    www.lodinews.com/.../article_904724f7-f042-5644-8d21-5f1... -
    24 Mar 2012 – Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:45 am on Wed, Mar 28, 2012. .... Some in Mr Lucas's family could buy and sell Pat... could buy and sell Pat....

     
  • Jerry Bransom posted at 4:01 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    Jerry Bransom Posts: 363

    Maybe an intelligent leader rather than yet another sheepish follower could tell me the difference between repubicans and democrats?........ I didn't think so. How about we shut up our divisive and pointless arguments and vote them all out!

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:00 am on Mon, Apr 9, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Ron Portal said:

    When a few other writers and I challenged him with facts and figures, he claimed he was from a long line of prosperous businessmen that could buy and sell us poor folk who dare challenge his indisputable wisdom, then declared that he would not comment again.

    Ron, you are a bald faced liar. I tried to find the comments but the paper does not let me look up my comments that far in the past and the letter I posted to has long gone down the memory hole. I am going to contact the paper tomorrow in hopes of retrieving it. You can believe that from now on I will archive my comments myself. That being said it I remember the situation well. It was not in response to you and a few other writers challenging me with facts. It was quite the opposite. Pat Maple went off with a long diatribe about how great a human being he was because of this that and the other plus he had 8 to 10 people working for him and whose lives depended on him. It was one of the most egotistical, self congratulating, pious rants I had heard in a long, long time. His point was that being as he was this super human being that his views should be taken as gospel and not for ideas he was presenting. I have to admit that I was angry at his arrogance and his implication that those who disagreed with him were not in his self perceived high level of human existence. I then told him of my family which consisted of all kinds of occupations, no one has ever been on welfare and there were a couple who, if he had only 8 to 10 people working for him could probably buy and sell him. My point that I was trying to get to Pat was get off the personal nonsense and stick to the ideas. Anyone who reads what I write knows that what I am about is ideas and public policy. I will defend myself as I did when one person challenged my service in Vietnam but let there be no doubt what I am about is policy and ideas.

    I did say I was not going to comment again. A small part of it is hard to talk ideas with people who always seem to get personal but also dealing with people who never answer the arguments you make but always seem to off on some tangent. That is a very small part.
    Writing is hard work. I questioned whether it was worth the work involved to continue writing here. There are questions you have to ask yourself with every line. Am I getting out what I want say in a clear and concise manner? Am I being fair to the person I am writing to and/or writing for? Do I have my facts straight? Am I seeking the truth or am I just trying to win the argument? I can see by what you wrote above that writing is probably easy for you.

    I continue to write here because of the comments of some people have made to me. They can be summed up by an email received:

    Loved your letter and the string of blogs!  It’s about time someone went head to head with the LNS bloggers.

    I am going to continue to write for those who think an open and honest discussion of ideas is a good thing. I am going to write for those who are busy in their lives, read the blogs and do not have the time to stand up to you tea party bullies but wish they could. I am retired, have the time and what the heck it is fun

     

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