Lodinews.com

default avatar
Welcome to the site! Login or Signup below.
|
||
Logout|My Dashboard

Letter: The extremely rich are the moochers

Print
Font Size:
Default font size
Larger font size

Posted: Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:00 am

It is interesting to read the comments of the conservatives to the thesis I laid out in my previous letter. I said that when you take into account all the taxes, whatever type, the über-rich such as Mitt Romney pay less in percentage than a minimum-wage worker and clearly less than a middle-class person. They have made no credible argument against this for it is the simple truth.

Mr. Baxter keeps saying that über-rich liberals pay less, too, so I guess that somehow makes it right. Mr. Liebich and Mr. Baxter keep harping on me to say what is their fair share, as if that is argument against my thesis. I am not advocating a solution but pointing out the problem. It seems as though they recognize the truth of what I am saying, but do not think it is a problem. They think it is OK that the über-rich pay less in percentage in taxes.

The economy is an engine that people who participate in make money because of its existence. If it did not exist, they would not be able to make any money. The economy requires money to maintain its ability for all of us to make a living from it. The fact that those who make the most money from it pay less in percentage on maintenance fees (taxes and fees) is unfair and frankly immoral. This situation has led to what most economists believe is the main problem of our time, which is income inequality.

Mr. Baxter would have you believe it is because all of a sudden, since Reagan, the American people have become lazy bums and moochers. The reality is that the über-wealthy, through buying lobbyists, the Republican Party and some Democrats, have shifted the real tax burden to the middle class through the tax code. This has hallowed out the middle class, and if this situation continues it will disappear.

Mr. Baxter is right when he talks about there being moochers. It is the über-wealthy.

John Lucas

Lodi

Rules of Conduct

  • 1 Use your real name. You must register with your full first and last name before you can comment. (And don’t pretend you’re someone else.)
  • 2 Keep it clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually oriented language.
  • 3 Don’t threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
  • 4 Be truthful. Don't lie about anyone or anything. Don't post unsubstantiated allegations, rumors or gossip that could harm the reputation of a person, company or organization.
  • 5 Be nice. No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.
  • 6 Stay on topic. Make sure your comments are about the story. Don’t insult each other.
  • 7 Tell us if the discussion is getting out of hand. Use the ‘Report’ link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
  • 8 Share what you know, and ask about what you don't.
  • 9 Don’t be a troll.
  • 10 Don’t reveal personal information about other commenters. You may reveal your own personal information, but we advise you not to do so.
  • 11 We reserve the right, at our discretion, to monitor, delete or choose not to post any comment. This may include removing or monitoring posts that we believe violate the spirit or letter of these rules, or that we otherwise determine at our discretion needs to be monitored, not posted, or deleted.

Welcome to the discussion.

89 comments:

  • Christina Welch posted at 7:09 am on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 405

    My bad, John. When I've read your posts in the past where you are chiding the Conservative attacks against you and saying you just want to have a civil discussion, I thought you meant it. To me, civility is being nice to others, and I do believe it's even a "rule" of this forum. But, that's just me. I will not waste your time ever again, sir. Good day.

    BTW, here's an actual Gandhi quote for ya: "Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."


     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:23 pm on Wed, Jan 15, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Obama certainly doesn't need any help killing the "middle class", he is doing a superb job.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:21 pm on Wed, Jan 15, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    No, not probably. I should have done that. This is not about left or right. It is about tax fairness

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:20 pm on Wed, Jan 15, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I remember the comment now. You pay higher taxes because men like Warren Buffet and Mitt Romney are legally allowed to pay less taxes by percentage than you do. Every hour you work and have to pay those extra taxes to make up for their ability to pay less amounts to slavery. You are essentially working for them for free.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:13 pm on Wed, Jan 15, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Fair enough. I probably should have done that.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 5:13 pm on Wed, Jan 15, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Democrats have declared income inequality the defining issue of our lives until after the 2014 elections. Income inequality will surely be the theme of Obama’s forthcoming State of the Union speech, but like everything else he says it will be a Big Lie. You will soon hear Obama cite figures based on 1979 income rates to justify his call for more "opportunity", but in 1979 the mean (average) household income of the bottom 20% of wage earners was $4,000. By 2012, it was $11.499, an increase of 186%. For the middle class, the increase was 211%. Despite the 2008 financial crisis, it still rose.

    Income "inequality" is just a part of the greed-envy-entitlement philosophy promoted by liberals. The idea that the rich have gotten rich by somehow "taking" money from those less fortunate is just Marxist Obama Lucas nonsense.

    There is no fairness involved in taking something someone earned and giving it to someone who hasn’t earned it and there's no equality involved in shackling one person to the needs of another.
    [sleeping]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:19 pm on Wed, Jan 15, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Just got tired of reading “Mitt Romney, Mitt Romney, Mitt Romney, Mitt Romney. IF you want to present your argument as unbiased towards either party, you should at least include someone on the liberal side for your rant.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:25 pm on Wed, Jan 15, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Anyone who is not outraged what the uber wealthy like Mitt Romney and Warren Buffet get away with I simply do not have time to hold their hand and be nice to them. If you think that is ok what they are doing I too not care if you had an economics degree from Harvard. What they are doing is unfair and immoral. It is killing the middle class and you are paying higher taxes because of it.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 9:01 am on Wed, Jan 15, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 405

    Now you are being patronizing to me as well—“What bothers me about Conservatives and independents like you is that to participate in the political process one must bring a logical mind with a historical perspective to the problem which I do not see you doing.” So I am not logical according to you, nor do I understand history. Sir, I would put my knowledge of history up against yours any day. I have a degree in history, do you? I teach it on a daily basis. How dare you make such erroneous and conceited assumptions. I also have a degree in social science and have taken many economics and government/politics courses over the years, so I know a bit about that, too. When you say, “it bothers me that we might stay on this mindlessly stupid economic path we are on because people cannot be bothered to have an open mind and are too intellectually lazy do their homework” you are insulting me and your words/tone make me not want to have any type of discussion with you.
    Ironically, I remember a few years ago when you and I agreed and “fought” with Darrell against the idea of supply-side economics; I rallied then against Trickle-Down theory and Reagan’s economic policies, and now I am the butt of your contempt. Nice.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:41 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Christina Welch said:
    John,
    Really? I can understand the tone you often take with Baxter, Liebich and others on here, but now with Kevin, too? He IS trying to have a reasoned debate with you, and YOU are the one coming across as condescending and rigid. "In this argument you have three avenues," how smug is that? And in the second one you dismiss his potential argument as "nonsense" before even hearing it. Really open-minded, huh? "You will not do the first two because you know I will hammer you with arguments you cannot reasonably win." Do you not see the egomania and conceit in your words? Funny thing, I really agree with much of your thesis but I am very disappointed in your delivery, and that does affect the effectiveness of your argument for me.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There is merit in what you say. The thesis I put out there is very simple. Kevin got to me because of his refusal to respond to what I was saying. He basically accused of lying and wanting to punish conservatives. I get tired of that nonsense. Next to climate change income inequality is the biggest problem we face today. The uber wealthy not paying by percentage the same as those of lower incomes is the main cause. The only time this country had a strong vibrant middle class was when the uber wealthy paid their fair share of the taxes. Mr Reagan came along changed all that and the middle class has be more and more under stress and there is a danger it will disappear. Income inequality has soared.

    What bothers me about Conservatives and independents like you is that to participate in the political process one must bring a logical mind with a historical perspective to the problem which I do not see you doing. Logically what I am saying is obvious and simple. Historically since the dawn of time Kings and leaders have said give us all the money (the poor pay taxes the rich do not) and the good life will trickle down upon you. It never happens there is always a few rich and the rest poor. Look around you. Countries that follow that are always the same, a few rich and the rest poor. Look at the countries that do the opposite(Germany, northern Europe, Japan, Canada, Australia etc) have strong middle classes. The evidence is overwhelming. I have a lot of nieces and nephews I care about and it bothers me that we might stay on this mindlessly stupid economic path we are on because people cannot be bothered to have an open mind and are too intellectually lazy do their homework.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:07 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I have not attacked anyone. I just used Mitt Romney as an example of what I was talking about. Joe Baxter just named two Liberals as doing the same thing. I am attacking the tax code not anyone personally except those who buy lobbyists and politicians to skew the tax code so that people like you have to pay more in taxes because they pay less and I have not named any names in that regard.

    It kills me that you do not get something so simple. The economy needs money for infrastructure. You favor the uber wealthy paying less in taxes by percentage than those of lower income. I am not going to say what I think. I doubt that they would print the comment.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:55 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I do not remember the comment you said I made. If I did I would have to see the context of it. It is amazing that you think people paying their fair share of taxes is "Punishment"

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:53 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    When comes to taxes I think whether or not you are a Liberal or a Conservative is immaterial. Thank for giving two more examples of people not paying their fair share. I am surprised you would think someone's politics would make a difference in my thesis.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:23 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Apparently liberals have no problem with leaky boats,

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:19 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    When it comes to tax dodgers, who can forget about the treasonous liberal John Kerry parking his 76’ luxury yacht in Rhode Island instead of Nantucket, where he owns a vacation house, or nearby Boston Harbor, avoiding paying the cash strapped state of Massachusetts approximately $500,000 in taxes and fees. Apparently Kerry doesn’t pay his “fair share”

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 2:43 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 405

    John,
    Really? I can understand the tone you often take with Baxter, Liebich and others on here, but now with Kevin, too? He IS trying to have a reasoned debate with you, and YOU are the one coming across as condescending and rigid. "In this argument you have three avenues," how smug is that? And in the second one you dismiss his potential argument as "nonsense" before even hearing it. Really open-minded, huh? "You will not do the first two because you know I will hammer you with arguments you cannot reasonably win." Do you not see the egomania and conceit in your words? Funny thing, I really agree with much of your thesis but I am very disappointed in your delivery, and that does affect the effectiveness of your argument for me.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 2:27 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Warren Buffet’s wealth makes Romney look like a lower middle class citizen. Buffett paid only 11% Federal tax in 2010. Then he goes public saying he should pay more and when the IRS says he owes more, he hires an army of attorneys to fight them. By gosh, I do believe Buffett is a liberal DEMOCRAT. Wonder why John Lucas doesn’t complain about him instead of always offering up Mitt Romney as the villain? Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Romney is a conservative Republican. Liberals love to demonize conservatives, true or not.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:17 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    The problem with your question is that it is NOT a question but an attack.

    You hate people who are hard working and successful business owners and want them feel the same pain you do been even though they have planned and positioned themselves to HAVE money.

    Here, nice and simple. I disagree with you. Or rather disagree with your terminology. When you use "as a percentage" it is a intangible target. Intangible because the amount of Sales tax, Gas tax and property tax are all CONTROLABLE by people. We don't have to buy all the junk we do, we don't have to drive everywhere, and we certainly don't need to buy more house than we do. So here is the counter question, WHY should the hardworking successful business owners be forced to match our (collective) irresponsibility with money?

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:08 pm on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    I am jus echoing YOUR terminology. What have you called t? Immoral, unfair, equal to being slave masters. What did you say, hat if the public knew what the likes of Mitt mad we would storm their houses with pitchforks.

    You are advocating for punishing the hard working rich, I just simplified all your outrage rhetoric into what YOU are calling for.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:49 am on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Interesting. Kevin Paglia says that if Mitt Romney had to pay the same in taxes by percentage as a middle class person it would be "Punishment". Amazing. I wonder if he enjoys being a sucker as he has to pay more to make up for it.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:25 am on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    What is interesting is none of these manly Conservatives will answer the basic question. Is it fair that Mitt Romney pays less in taxes than a minimum wage worker by percentage? It is really a yes or no question buy none of our he manly conservatives can step up to the plate and say where they are really at. Typical

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:29 am on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Again, I ask, WHAT is fair? If a student studies diligently at school and gets all "A"s should the school diminish his achievements by taking away part of what he "earned" and give it to the ones that flunked or achieved much lower scores because they lacked motivation to study? Apparently in the liberal world, the answer would be a resounding "YES" !!.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:15 am on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    Sure it is about punishment. In another LTE, you equated hard working, successful Americans to slave masters and called them immoral.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:49 am on Tue, Jan 14, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    [thumbup]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:09 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The reality is that of my many faults jealousy is not one of them especially about money. I do not nearly spend what I make. I am not vilifying Mitt Romney. I am merely using him as an example of what I am saying. On 20 million dollars he paid less by percentage to the government than a minimum wage worker. I think that this is unfair and immoral. That is the issue under discussion

    I am disappointed in you Kevin because I thought you were a person one can have an civil argument with. Sadly you have turned out to be like the rest of the so-called Conservatives here.

    In this argument you have three avenues.

    1. You can dispute my thesis and say that the uber wealthy pay more by percentage when counting all taxes and fees. This is pointless and obviously no one can make a reasonable case of it.

    2. You can say that it is fair because they will create more jobs or some other nonsense

    3. You can agree with me

    You will not do the first two because you know I will hammer you with arguments you cannot reasonably win.It will be a cold day in h-ll before a Conservative admits that I am right about something. You have elected to do what the rest of the Conservatives do. You changed the subject. Some called me a Communist other like Joe Baxter got his attack machine going.

    What did you do? You wanted to talk about in your opinion the government spends too much. This is an interesting topic but it has nothing to do with what we were talking about. If you cut the spending to whatever you wanted the problem I outlined would still be in effect. They would still not be paying their fair share of the tax burden and you would still have to pay more to make up the difference. Kevin, do not be like the rest of the cowards around. Man up and stay on the subject.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:44 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    It is not about punishment at all. It is about fairness.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:46 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    What don' you comprehend about "perceived problem"?

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 3:13 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    Thank you. You are proving my point. You have NO idea about tax structures other than hat person B doesn't pay as much as you as a percentage so you HATE them for it, want to punish them for it, and need other to have the same dislike for them.

    You want to turn the "have nots" against those that have worked hard, gotten the education to make them valuable AND contribute to the economy by running successful businesses.

    If you want to pay as little as the Roney's of the world here is a very simple way to do it. STOP BUYING CRAP. There. Problem solved. Romneys live within their means, spend significantly less than they make, invest the rest in businesses. Middle class and lower income complain about having no money but buy the latest and greatest phones, go massively into debt for Christmas, and in general spend more than the make. Address THAT problem. THAT is why they/we pay a higher % of our income to taxes, cause we buy more than we need.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 3:06 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    If your boat is leaking do you bail the water or fix the hole?

    You see a problem, Largely a bitter apples "they have more money than me so they must e made to suffer like I am" problem, but still a problem for you. Rather than address what is causing the problem, you would rather attack and vilify people who are more successful that you.

    I would rather address the issue of WHY more tax dollars are needed, not how to get more.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:12 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Mitt Romney is the perfect example of what I talking about. If the uber wealthy were required to make their tax returns public the people would be after them with pitchforks.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:09 pm on Mon, Jan 13, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    This was about the uber wealthy not paying their fair share of the taxes. I see that because you have no realistic counter argument you are now trying to change subject. Nice try.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 5:42 pm on Sun, Jan 12, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    [rolleyes]... I certainly did. Your Marxist position has been and continues to be, "Taking money from the bourgeois (the wealthy or propertied class) for the benefit of the proletariat (working class)"
    [sleeping]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 1:54 pm on Sun, Jan 12, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2844

    Mr. Lucas,

    Do you ever have anything to say that is not sarcastic, mean spirited or ugly? Do you ever have anything to say that is interesting or relevant to the topic at hand? Yes, you are the best representative of what Liberalism has descended to. You must be so proud.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 10:41 am on Sun, Jan 12, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    And let's be fair, the REASON so much is needed in taxes is because of waste in government. Rather than fix the problem, you want MORE money sent to DC for the power-gremlins to play with.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 10:23 am on Sun, Jan 12, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    Nice try, I Haven't voted a Republican OR Democrat into power since I voted for Clinton the first time. Since then I have seen that BOTH parties are more interested in keeping power than running this country.

    And you keep using Romney to compare to a working MIDDLE class person. Let's see you blinded by bias you are. WHY is this a faulty simile?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:14 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Nope

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:09 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    well we have the answer to the question I asked:

    Do you ever have anything to say that is not sarcastic, mean spirited or ugly? Do you ever have anything to say that is interesting or relevant to the topic at hand?

    A clear NO!!! Thanks for your honesty.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:05 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    So you think it is fair that the uber wealthy pay less in taxes by percentage than those of lower income?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:04 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    No this is what I am saying:

    The economy is an engine that need money (taxes, fees) to keep it running so those in the future can make money from it. I am saying as it now stands the uber wealth(men such as Mitt Romney) are paying less in taxes or fees by percentage than a minimum wage worker and much less than a middle class person. This forces an unfair tax burden on the lower income people such as yourself. If they paid as much as a middle class person they would still be rich and very well rewarded. To use Mitt Romney 2010 return as an example if he paid what a person who has an adjusted $100,000 income Mr Romney would have made 10 million dollars instead of the 18 million dollars out of 20 million dollars. He would have still made 10 million dollars which is comparable to the $50,000 the middle class guy is left with. The middle class guy is clearly over taxed. The reason is that people like Mitt Romney have bought enough lobbyist and politicians to skew the tax code and hammer lower income people. Someone has to pay for the infrastructure of the economy and they are making sure it is not them

    BTW, Kevin, Mitt Romney thanks you for your vote and the uber wealthy to your face will thank you for your continued support on this issue. Of course the word behind your back is "SUCKER".

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 1:00 pm on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Apparently you don't read Bobbin's posts? Oh yeah, she is a liberal and gets a pass to say things that you see fit to berate conservativs for saying. Hilarious. And, John, ask me if I really care what you think.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:14 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    Mr Lucas responded on my post a ways down "Tell me, Ken, why should someone like Mitt Romney pay less by percentage than a minimum wage worker? The truth is I am tired of you and your fellow idiot middle class "Conservatives" voting against not only your own self interest but against what is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer as being massively unfair"

    Here is the problem Mr. Lucas, in your own words, the level of work done by a multi-business owner with all the headache, responsibility and sacrifices is equal to the level of work put in by a minimum wage worker. You see no extra value in a business owner who works 80+ hours a week, has gone to higher education schools for years, who have struggled to be a successful business owner employing hundreds, thousands or more over that of some one flipping burgers, or stocking shelves, or twisting a wrench on your car.

    Yes, there is a PERCENTAGE of taxes paid when taking into account ALL taxes difference between the rich and the middle/lower income people. To use your own words expecting people who are business leaders and the employers of so many, have the fate of so many resting on their shoulders to be PUNISHED for all the work they did to get there is wrong and that should be " intuitively obvious to the most casual observer as being massively unfair".

    Let's put it another way. Take two ranchers. One has 10 sheep, cares for and deals with all the issues of tending to those ten sheep, the other has 10,000 sheep. has all the extra headaches and issues of so many sheep. The first rancher has to sell 9 of his sheep to feed his family and provide for the next year, the other only has to sell 2000 to accomplish the same. Using your logic the second rancher should be FORCED to sell 7000 more sheep just so things are "fair" between" him and the first rancher. For me and other conservatives, the effort it take to be successful, deserves the reward of keeping what you work for.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 10:14 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Yep, whining appears to be a specialty of liberals.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 10:10 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Nope, it means I agree that you are whining about a problem YOU perceive and not offering any solution to your PERCIEVED problem.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:49 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    I'm baffled as to why she is concerned about how many members the CPUSA has. Who cares?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:48 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    NRA.org ROFLMAO![lol]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:44 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    NOT TRUE. You said, "Name a position I have taken that is Marxist."

    I DID.[sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:28 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Does this mean you agree with me that there is a problem?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:55 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    That is why they have a progressive income tax. I do not know why you think the more money you make the LESS of your income should go to taxes by percentage. I wish one of you "Conservatives" would answer that question. Tell me, Ken, why should someone like Mitt Romney pay less by percentage than a minimum wage worker? The truth is I am tired of you and your fellow idiot middle class "Conservatives" voting against not only your own self interest but against what is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer as being massively unfair. It is the major reason for income inequality and is hollowing the middle class. If you had an ounce of class coupled with a tad of intellectual honesty you would see that this idea was brought back by Reagan and since its continued use it has crippled our economy. Middle class Conservatives have a lot to answer for.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:39 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Do you ever have anything to say that is not sarcastic, mean spirited or ugly? Do you ever have anything to say that is interesting or relevant to the topic at hand? Yes, you are the best representative of what Conservatism has descended to. You must be so proud.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:34 am on Sat, Jan 11, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Mr. Lucas, my dad always told me if you talk a problem without offering a solution you are just a whiner. Oh yeah, just WHAT is the FAIR SHARE of the uber rich?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:00 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Bobbin posted, "I was forced to view his (John Stossel) TV program the other day and just about had a coronary listening to his BS and that of his "guest."
    FORCED? Did someone strap you to a chair, prop your eyes open and point you at the TV? Naw. I think deep down inside, you adore John Stossel, Glenn Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly and most of all Megyn Kelly, just admit it..

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:13 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Just as soon as John Lucas becomes Gas Pump Czar, I am going to be forced to use the high tax pumps.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:11 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Bobbin, I thought you knew wikipedia was a user driven information site. ANYONE can, and does, edit information anytime they so desire. Wikipedia has been disproven many, many times a a reliable source of verifiable information. But, if it substantiates your argument, it must be absolutely true, if not, it isn't. How does that work? Hilarious.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:16 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Bobbin posted, “Good luck with that gold. I hope Glenn Beck got a big commission from your foolish investment.”
    My investment is so "foolish" I am in Scottsdale, Arizona for the Barrett-Jackson auction with a letter of credit for a substantial amount based solely on the net worth of my gold portfolio. Should be able to add one or two nice rides to my car collection. How are things down at the Lodi pawn shops these days? Beck had nothing to do with anything but my commodity broker made some commissions, as well he should.
    What is your obsession with Glenn Beck? You sure seem to mention him a lot.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 3:51 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1405

    "Perhaps you should contact the CPUSA Ms. Bobin and inform them their own website is inaccurate because it claims,'

    'Today, the Party is experiencing an almost historic growth in support and new members, particularly through the Internet. No one can challenge that, today, the Communist Party is one of the fastest-growing, most active, vital and vibrant forces on the US left."

    Joanne: the lack of numbers is merely a manifestation of only being able to copy and paste. The puff quote from what I presume is the communist party in America is bought, lock, stock, and barrel. That he would believe such nonsense such as this and not evidence from experts on, ....well you choose the "conspiracy"....9/11, chem trails, JFK, what ever is proof of something (I'm not going to say, but it isn't good). He also claimed that "world leaders" was an equivalent term for "experts" when discussing the global effort to show that 9/11 was a government set up. Ask him why a terrorist attack(s) occurring in our country, using planes owned by, and built by Americans, that killed 3000 Americans, etc., why would this body be overseen by the chief justice of the Italian Supreme Court? So politicians in other countries are experts in terrorism, specifically middle eastern terrorists who hijack planes and crash them into buildings?

    As I say, something very very wrong.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:13 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    I will take your penny, if you can afford to spare it. Trading in precious metals have probably made me more money thay you have earned in your lifetime. I apologize and rescind my statement that you can't afford gold, I forgot they sell it at WalMart in 10K plated necklaces. Invest away.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:47 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Shelter is not exempt. the landlord passes on the property tax to the renter.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:46 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I asked our friend Mr Liebich why I was a communist and he stated:

    Your entire "thesis" is blatantly Marxist Mr. Lucas!
    Taking money from the bourgeois (the wealthy or propertied class) for the benefit of the proletariat (working class)

    My thesis is that the economy is an engine that needs taxes and fees to keep it running. I pointed out the OBVIOUS UNDENIABLE TRUTH that the uber wealthy pay less by percentage in taxes (all money paid to the government) and fees than a person on minimum wage and certainly less than those in the middle class.

    I am glad that Mr Liebich finally has come out and said this is the way it should be.

    Pat Maple, Glad to see you again. Sadly you are not one of the uber wealthy. You however get to pay more in taxes because the uber wealthy has bought lobbyists and politicians to shift the tax burden to people like you. An economy is an engine that has have money to keep it going forward so those in the future can make a living. The uber wealthy think it should be you and thank you for your support in this very important issue.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:53 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Ed: Sales tax...you buy you pay. Food and shelter is exempt
    I like some of Stossel's ideas as well
    The Lazy Slob will NEVER pay anything.
    The problem is we are growing too many Lazy Slobs
    Obama wants equality...start with taxes and jobs and jobs and jobs

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:13 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Like most of your comments, Baxxter, this attempt at an insult falls flat.

    Good luck with that gold. I hope Glenn Beck got a big commission from your foolish investment.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:11 pm on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Baxxter wrote: "So, Bobbin, I take it you can’t afford to own gold so you ridicule those that do. To bad, I find gold an excellent and safe investment. You mock John Stossel yet frequently quote comedian Jon Stewart as an authority on politics."

    I don't "frequently quote Jon Stewart." Complete lie, Baxxter.

    I don't own gold, Baxxter, not because I can't afford it. Why you would make such a LYING ACCUSATION about me (see rule #4) I really don't know.

    I do not invest in gold because it is a lousy long term investment subject to the commodity market. If you bought your gold in the 2000's - starting in 2000 when gold was around 250 an ounce, and now it's worth 1200 and ounce - great. You better sell it. Too bad if you bought it at 1200 an ounce. It could be 250 an ounce tomorrow without warning.

    Don't worry, though. I'll put a penny in your collection can when that happens.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:59 am on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Funny how John Stossel got his start as a consumer champion - not quite in the vein of Ralph Nader - but of course he made a name for himself.

    Now, he finds he can rake in the bucks at a much quicker pace by championing the Libertarian cause.

    Do you KNOW what Libertarians stand for, Mr. Walters?

    And speaking of columnists, catch yesterday's column from Thomas Sowell who now claims that "trickle down economics" is a term that has NEVER been used - NO ONE ever said it - it doesn't exist!

    Trick Down = Reaganomics = Supply Side Economics

    Who cares if "trickle down" isn't in the text books. It still exists by other names.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:48 am on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    So increasing fast, according to them? Did they give you a number?

    Do you know the definition of "Propaganda," Mr. Liebich?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:40 am on Fri, Jan 10, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Crooks in government jobs? Wow, who knew? It is called the "Captains Disease". and happens in virtually all of the law enforcement and fire departments across America. The once Commander of the California Highway Patrol, when presented with the evidence his senior officers were bailing under phony stress disability claims, said he would investigate. He did, then did the exact same thing. Fat checks, NO taxes.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:12 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999


    Your entire "thesis" is blatantly Marxist Mr. Lucas! [sleeping]

    Taking money from the bourgeois (the wealthy or propertied class) for the benefit of the proletariat (working class)
    [sleeping]

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 9:27 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    So you are supporting forcing people to pay different rates of sales tax and gas tax according to how much they make. Make over a million$$$'s and you have to ay 50% in all sales taxes.

    Yup, that will teach them rich people to work 80+hours a week, spend thousands and thousands of dollars on years and years of education to try and be successful.

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 8:55 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    the old dog Posts: 556

    Mr. Maple, I watch and read John Stossel, prehaps one of the better written columns, though some of the posters are against him and makes me wonder what is their problem. Stossel would be proud of your post as it brings out the best and worst of the tax program. It would be difficult where as everyone pays the same tax, the people that can. will. The lazy slob living off welfare will not since he has no money. No one ever said life would be easy or fair, as it is not.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:26 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    What an idiotic argument. If I earn $2M the gov takes 50%. If Mr X earns $2M he pays 50%. If you are a lazy slob who does not work, you will pay 0% taxes.

    The lazy slob pays nothing... He receives $1M in societal benefits without lifting a finger. I receive $1M in societal benefits because I paid for them as does Mr X. If I invest my additional EARNINGS and make more money...I pay more taxes. The lazy slob pays none yet benefits societally equally.

    MY fingers are tired. Let's move to a sale tax system where everyone pays the same. Better yet let's get rid of taxes.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:09 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    maniacal

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:04 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    So, Bobbin, I take it you can’t afford to own gold so you ridicule those that do. To bad, I find gold an excellent and safe investment. You mock John Stossel yet frequently quote comedian Jon Stewart as an authority on politics. Well, I have to agree that Obama politics is comedic and Stewart probably knows more about all things political than Obama, however neither are qualified for anything other than their entertainment value. Keep watching the MSNBC manical liberal pundits that you align yourself with because if you turn them off, they will lose 50% of their audience.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:03 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    How does advocating the uber wealthy pay the same percentage of their income as the middle class equal communism or is demonizing the rich? It does not except in a Conservatives addled brain.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:59 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I do not know what you are talking about. I am just advocating that the uber wealthy not to pay less than a middle class person in taxes as a percentage of income. No more no less. It is really quite simple.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 3:57 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Who cares?[lol]

    Perhaps you should contact the CPUSA Ms. Bobin and inform them their own website is inaccurate because it claims,

    "Today, the Party is experiencing an almost historic growth in support and new members, particularly through the Internet. No one can challenge that, today, the Communist Party is one of the fastest-growing, most active, vital and vibrant forces on the US left."
    [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:48 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Really? Name a position I have taken that is marxist. You can't because there is not one. You make a blanket accusation because there is nothing to argue about. That is why you do not list a reason. You are really something

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 1:04 pm on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    It is obvious to any thinking individual that you are a proponent of Maxism. [rolleyes]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:23 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Liebich wrote: "According to the Communist Party USA’s “constitution,” they are a party “of and for the U.S working class” that believes abolishing capitalism and instituting a “socialist reorganization of society” will solve just about everything."

    According to Wikipedia: As of 2011, the total membership of the US Communist Party is a WHOPPING 2,000!

    [sleeping]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:19 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Seriously? John Stossel?

    I was forced to view his TV program the other day and just about had a coronary listening to his BS and that of his "guest."

    Amazingly his audience, a crowd of Libertarian sheep, mostly ALL raised their hands when Stossel asked if they "owned gold" and he declared that they had made one of the wisest decisions of their lives. What a joke!

    You haven't replied to my comment about what YOU missed in the numbers presented in the WSJ article. Have you found the ERROR yet, Mr. Kindseth?

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:09 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2035

    Gas tax, property tax and sales taxes are all based on how much you SPEND, not on how much you make. Renting, riding the bus (or even better cycling as much as you can) and not buying with a "keeping up with the Jones'" all reduces how much people have to pay in those taxes.

    But recognize those options aren't always possible for everyone. So let me ask this of Mr Lucas. HOW do we fi it so the evil rich are punished and striped of their earned wealth enough to make things fair. After all a business owner who employees thousands, works 80+ hours a week, manages and juggles decisions that affect everyone that works for in those businesses and supplies of that business should NEVER be allowed to have more wealth than fast food workers and shelve stockers. (**Yes, there is a ton of sarcasm in there, BUT that is what it sounds like you are advocating.)

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:16 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    John, why do you not just put an idea out there and we will argue about it.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:14 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:19 am on Thu, Jan 9, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1851

    Mr. Kindseth, don’t count on it. After the beating the liberals have taken on ObamaCare, Benghazi, Fast & Furious, IRS scandal and NSA scandal lies, they are now going to focus on “income inequality” by demonizing the “evil rich”. Life is all about choices and the people who have made bad choices want those who have made good choices pay for their shortcomings. If liberals want to live under communism, they should simply move to a country that espouses that system.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:19 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    None of the articles you have put up take into consideration gas taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, FICA and other regressive taxes. The reason they do not is they want to support a false Conservative narrative that people like you swallow hook, line and sinker. What I am saying is true and obvious to any thinking individual.

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 5:47 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    PS: This is so simple, John Lucas should be able to follow the logic of John Stossel:

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0114/stossel010814.php3#.Us39KGeA3Vg

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 5:42 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Looks like a few thousand (at least - since the investigation is still ongoing) in the NYPD AND NYFD found a way to beat the system - getting free money AND not paying taxes on these disability payments:

    http://rt.com/usa/nypd-benefits-scam-ptsd-295/

    And these are the men who are entrusted with protecting the citizens of NY!

    I wonder what the tax rates are of the 4 who orchestrated this scheme? - which has netted them millions over several decades.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 5:34 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Kindseth - you should take a look at the WSJ article below and tell me what you notice is a VERY GLARING ERROR in their chart.

    I won't give you a clue. I think you should figure it out yourself - if you know how taxes are figured. Just another way to distort the numbers.

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 5:12 pm on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Since Reagan the system has been rigged to favor the uber wealthy. Reagan dropped the tax rate for the upper tier to Great Depression levels and started a tactic he coined, "starve the beast" which shifted to flow of capital away from the US treasury and into the hands of a tiny minority of uber wealthy so they can claim we have run out of money and can't afford the social programs anymore. So I prefer to think of this tiny minority of uber wealthy as the "takers."

    Also, most of the nation's wealth has been taken out of the economy and funneled into the hands of this tiny minority as well. Now they call people who are poor or unemployed as a result of this dangerous shift of wealth the "takers" as if that wealth belonged to this tiny minority that changed the rules in order to rob us of it. We need to establish a responsible tax system to restore a balance of wealth so it functions in a positive way for our economy rather than allowing this tiny minority of uber wealthy to gather it for themselves and hoard it away where it festers corruption and threatens to undermine our democratic process.

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 9:44 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    More reading for Mr. Lucas:

    http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/story/2011-09-20/buffett-tax-millionaires/50480226/1

    http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/09/26/why-the-rich-pay-40-of-taxes/

    The trove of facts is unlimited.

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 9:29 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    <Lucas is wrong on this issue as nearly any news, research or analysis service has reported repeatedly for years. These are only a sampling.

    http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes

    http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/index.html

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/10/cbo-rich-pay-outsized-share-taxes/

    http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2012/04/18/the-real-tax-rates-of-the-rich/

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:40 am on Wed, Jan 8, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    According to the Communist Party USA’s “constitution,” they are a party “of and for the U.S working class” that believes abolishing capitalism and instituting a “socialist reorganization of society” will solve just about everything- “exploitation of human beings by others, the evils of oppression, war, racism, environmental degradation, and poverty.” The constitution goes on to state that the party “fights for jobs and economic security, a decent and rising standard of living, peace, justice, equality, a sustainable environment, gay rights, health care, education, affordable housing, the needs of seniors, democracy, and a fulfilling life for everyone, with socialism as our goal.” In short, they want it all. And the Party, much like Mr. Lucas apparently, believes that redistributing wealth and keeping all citizens at the same level of mediocrity for the sake of fairness, this idealistic utopia can be attained.

    To a Marxist, the fact that the top 1% earn more income than the bottom 99% is not fair, no matter how they earn it, fairly or not. So it is not fair unless more is taken from the top 1% until they are left only with what they “need,” as in any true communist system. Paying anything less is not their “fair” share.

    Communism. Marxism. The only logical explanations of Mr. Lucas's rhetoric.

     

Recent Comments

Posted 5 hours ago by Simon Birch.

article: Prepare winter squash in a tasty, vegan…

The ingredient has been changed. Thanks.

More...

Posted 6 hours ago by Ed Walters.

article: Letter: It’s time to clean out death row

S. S. Innocent people ZERO, however there is a reason why they are on death row. I often wonder what is worse, going to sleep and never …

More...

Posted 6 hours ago by Kevin Paglia.

article: Letter: It’s time to clean out death row

An interesting discussion on crime and punishment. Here is another thought to debate: Tracking systems on paroled convicts or non-violent…

More...

Posted 6 hours ago by Kevin Paglia.

article: Letter: It’s time to clean out death row

The only time I support the death penalty is when either A: undeniable evidence is available. A multitude of witnesses, suspect taken into…

More...

Posted 7 hours ago by Josh Morgan.

article: Letter: Can San Joaquin County afford t…

Come on Jane, you're better than this. Since when did you stoop to this level of dirty politics? It's really not that becoming.

More...

Video

Popular Stories

Poll

Loading…

Your News

News for the community, by the community.

Featured Events

Mailing List

Subscribe to a mailing list to have daily news sent directly to your inbox.

  • Breaking News

    Would you like to receive breaking news alerts? Sign up now!

  • News Updates

    Would you like to receive our daily news headlines? Sign up now!

  • Sports Updates

    Would you like to receive our daily sports headlines? Sign up now!

Manage Your Lists