Lodinews.com

default avatar
Welcome to the site! Login or Signup below.
|
||
Logout|My Dashboard

Private property should be respected

Print
Font Size:
Default font size
Larger font size

Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:00 pm

The gay community is up in arms regarding a recent confrontation between gay "kissers" and the Mormon Church.

From what I've been able to discern, on July 8 two homosexual men trespassed on Mormon Church property in Salt Lake City and engaged in what a Mormon witness reported as, "… passionate kissing, groping, profane and lewd language, and (obvious use of) alcohol" (Read The Associated Press story.)

What is unclear is whether or not the church's representative's account of the event is wholly accurate. The two men who admitted to stopping for the kiss seem to insist that they simply cut through the property on their way home and just sat for a (one?) kiss. As a result of the men being handcuffed and one being "pinned to the ground," a "kiss-in" was held at the same plaza that was attended by 100 or so people, including both gay and heterosexual couples.

First, how can anyone seriously suggest that the first instance was nothing more than two innocent gay men stopping for a kiss on the way home from a nearby concert? They were on Mormon property, for crying out loud! It's no secret that the Mormon Church is outspoken regarding its stance on homosexuality.

And now, in response, a "kiss-in" was held on Mormon property to protest the actions by Mormon authorities? This is nothing more than political activism run amuck.

Private property should always be respected. And to openly engage in such behavior on the grounds of the Mormon Church goes beyond the bounds of common decency and common sense.

Once again, the gay community isn't advocating acceptance of their lifestyle; they're insisting that it be embraced by those who disagree with their behavior. It seems that they don't want to just get along; they truly want to force their way of life on the rest of society. This is just plain wrong.

I would hope that the gay community would understand this and persuade their members to use better judgment with their public displays of affection. After all, everyone deserves respect - including homosexuals, as well as the Mormon Church.

Jerome R. Kinderman

Lodi

Rules of Conduct

  • 1 Use your real name. You must register with your full first and last name before you can comment. (And don’t pretend you’re someone else.)
  • 2 Keep it clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually oriented language.
  • 3 Don’t threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
  • 4 Be truthful. Don't lie about anyone or anything. Don't post unsubstantiated allegations, rumors or gossip that could harm the reputation of a person, company or organization.
  • 5 Be nice. No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.
  • 6 Stay on topic. Make sure your comments are about the story. Don’t insult each other.
  • 7 Tell us if the discussion is getting out of hand. Use the ‘Report’ link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
  • 8 Share what you know, and ask about what you don't.
  • 9 Don’t be a troll.
  • 10 Don’t reveal personal information about other commenters. You may reveal your own personal information, but we advise you not to do so.
  • 11 We reserve the right, at our discretion, to monitor, delete or choose not to post any comment. This may include removing or monitoring posts that we believe violate the spirit or letter of these rules, or that we otherwise determine at our discretion needs to be monitored, not posted, or deleted.

Welcome to the discussion.

36 comments:

  • posted at 4:11 pm on Mon, Aug 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Ivan: Good point.

     
  • posted at 1:51 pm on Sat, Aug 1, 2009.

    Posts:

    You know, if this was 100 years ago and someone believed that Jews shouldn't be allowed to marry Gentiles, it wouldn't make much difference to me whether they were polite or not.

     
  • posted at 8:59 pm on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    *Mormon

     
  • posted at 8:58 pm on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito wrote on Jul 31, 2009 5:21 PM:" Voter, I don't see the Mormons making demands on society. "Really? Did you miss the whole Mormans against Gays recently? I think they were trying very hard to demand a lot!

     
  • posted at 3:58 pm on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    Yes, Cog. I believe that they've institutionalized bigotry. As Leonard said earlier, individually I think Mormons make fine neighbors and citizens, etc. etc., but if you sit down and discuss their beliefs, well . . . that's another matter. The church as an organization is highly bigoted, with gays taking the worst hit and women relegated to second class status. Until fairly recently, blacks were treated as less than human. You can't excuse that because they smile and loan you tools over the fence.

     
  • posted at 1:06 pm on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    Surely no one would deny that, until relatively recently, the LDS treatment of blacks was despicable. Of course (sadly) that hardly makes them unique among American sects but it is a historical fact, nonetheless.

     
  • posted at 12:23 pm on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, are you calling the Mormons an "organization of bigots"? Now, you really are a piece of work, or maybe something else. Later, I'm going to my mountain house.

     
  • posted at 12:21 pm on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, I don't see the Mormons making demands on society. They, like the majority of people, just want the government to leave them alone. I don't see any of MY gay friends acting any differently towards society than do the Mormons. I can't imagine any of them being anything but apologetic for offending someone. Their agenda seems to be politeness towards society, not shrill activism. Going out of your way to offend people never helps a cause, quite the contrary. MY gay friends seem to be intelligent enough to do their best to get along.

     
  • posted at 10:59 am on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito wrote on Jul 31, 2009 12:37 AM:" If it comes down to choosing between the Mormons and the homosexual community, it's a no brainer for me."This speaks volumes. You have decided that the mere fact of someone's homosexuality makes them less worthy than a religious group with a long history of oppressing women, minorities, and gays. It seems you assume that God prefers an organization of bigots over decent folks just being themselves (as HE made them.) Weird.

     
  • posted at 8:43 am on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    lol!

     
  • posted at 7:51 am on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    Perhaps while they are at it the Teabaggers could join in and demand that the Federal Government end its bailout of Jerome Kinderman.

     
  • posted at 7:47 am on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    What would be brilliant is if someone could organize the local gays to hold a kiss in on the street in front of Jerome's apartment.Why not make a stand against bigotry and ignorance right there in its local stronghold?

     
  • posted at 7:29 am on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito wrote on Jul 31, 2009 8:30 AM:" Leonard, sounds like you could include liberals in that group too. I don't know about that but Conservatives certainly fit the bill.

     
  • posted at 3:30 am on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard, sounds like you could include liberals in that group too.

     
  • posted at 12:25 am on Fri, Jul 31, 2009.

    Posts:

    My feeling about individual Mormons is much like my feeling about individual Catholics.On their own, many of them are fine people but, for one reason or another, both groups have bought into a leadership structure that is absolutely insane.

     
  • posted at 7:37 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, and if that is the Mormon Church's path they choose to find recruits, good luck to them. My experience with Mormons in the past, which includes neighbors and bosses, is that they are some of the finest, exemplary living human beings I have ever met. If it comes down to choosing between the Mormons and the homosexual community, it's a no brainer for me. Despite my relationships with the gays in my circle, and they are those in committed relationships, the Mormons are beautiful people, with wonderful values. I definitely admire their lifestyle above the others. And if your going to compare the fringe Mormons, don't forget to include the fringe gays.

     
  • posted at 4:05 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cogito, I am not arguing the church's right to make rules for usage of their own property. I think the incident makes clear the absolute control the Mormons have over every aspect of public life in Utah and the hate and intolerance they spread in the name of God. There is nothing loving about Mormonism. The church has a long history of bigotry against women, racial minorities, and gays.

     
  • posted at 3:57 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Here's the background omitted from Jerome's letter and the initial news blurbs: "Temple Square" was traditionally Main Street Plaza--public property--and this is how many will forever view it. The situation is similar to what happened in the 50's in the South--public officials sold public land to private organizations to skirt desegregation and exclude blacks. For similar reasons, the Salt Lake City Council sold the public plaza to the Mormon Church in 2003, allowing the church essentially to control public rules of conduct, skirting civil rights.

     
  • posted at 3:51 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard. As this never ending war unfolds let us keep track of hate, intolerance, perversion, filth, anger, despicable acts, violations of law, and you can throw in your own list of 7 more measurements. Then after a year we can see which of the two groups has the most violations. I will propose $ 100 it will be the gay/gaysupporters etc that will win with the most filth and anger.

     
  • posted at 3:45 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Billy Rooobin: Lets focus on the issue. Why do you have to make everything into a "flog jerome" hatefest ? Stop with the I am a loser so i will try to make everyone a loser mentality. Dont you have any original ideas about the ISSUE? Dont you have any comments that are germain to the previous blogs or the actual topic. It is like your tinfoil hat is turned the wrong direction. Re-read the letter to the editor, then comment on the letter regardless of the authorship. Comment on the comments. Stay silent so people will not think that you are such a small hateful person.

     
  • posted at 3:42 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, I somewhat agree. I agree with you that a kiss on the cheek would not offend me, but it was not my property. It was the Church's property. And if they feel their sentiments were violated, then they were violated. Just like the customers in the restaurant in SF. It's their business, and their property. We should have the right to make the rules regarding what has our name on it.

     
  • posted at 2:14 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    And I thought it was pretty funny that Jerome changed the target of his hate today, presumably hoping to avoid the unfavorable comments generated by his repetitive "I hate Obama" rants.

     
  • posted at 2:10 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    I think the reaction of the Mormon Church was excessive and outright hateful. Kissing someone on the cheek (and that's what eye witnesses saw) is not even the slightest bit improper regardless of the persons involved.

     
  • posted at 2:03 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    max stanfield wrote on Jul 30, 2009 9:31 AM:" This incident certainly demonstrated that the homosexuals do not accord others the respect and tolerance they demand for themselves.Perhaps, but the individuals involved were acting as individuals, not as the duly appointed representatives of all gay people.What this incident REALLY demonstrated us that the Mormons do not accord others the respect and tolerance they demand for themselves.

     
  • posted at 2:03 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, I think public dislays of affection by anyone over 18, or under 70, to be a little base. Whatever your sexual orientation. That is, anything more than a hug, hand holding, or a peck. Do you remember the case where the heterosexual couple sued a SF restaurant after being kicked out for kissing in front of the customers? All the gay couples were complaining to the owner. o you feel they were being "bigots"?

     
  • posted at 1:09 pm on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    It's nice Jerome has his homophobia.If it wasn't for his hate, he'd be an empty bag.

     
  • posted at 11:38 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Cog, have you been to that area of Salt Lake City? It doesn't very much seem like private property. The Mormon church owns the entire town--banks, department stores, every other building. It wouldn't seem even remotely "off limits" to hug or kiss anyone on that spot--it's very open, sort of park like.

     
  • posted at 10:58 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Perhaps the bloggers know of a opening called a Glory Hole, then again maybe not. Many years have gone by since I worked SF at night, and one night had to use the rest room. The rest room was located in a large underground parking garage. What I saw as I entered made me sick and I left, and took care of business in the street. Now the most amazing thing of all is, at the New Melones resevor there is an area called Glory Hole, I wonder if the people that gave it that name had any idea of what they were talking about, most likely not, if they did they would have changed the name. For anyone that doesn`t have a clue, while I haven`t looked, perhaps Google will inform you as to what a Glory Hole is.

     
  • posted at 10:56 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, are you cool with people who go onto private property and engage in behavior offensive to the property owner?

     
  • posted at 10:36 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    And YES, I would say it to their face.

     
  • posted at 10:35 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Voter, maybe it wasn't politically correct. But it wasn't bigotry, and it wasn't a lie.

     
  • posted at 9:55 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    That was an enormously bigoted statement, Cogito. Would you say that to your gay friends and family members? You know, the ones you always mention as kind, loving, decent people?

     
  • posted at 4:31 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    This incident certainly demonstrated that the homosexuals do not accord others the respect and tolerance they demand for themselves. Voter: I don't think it is a life style, but they certainly have made it clear that they think it is.

     
  • posted at 3:50 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Jerome, you would ask the gay community to use "better judgment"? You understand that your referring to a community that fought to keep the bath houses open in the midst of an epidemic that was killing off its members in droves.

     
  • posted at 1:52 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Jerome wrote: "Once again, the gay community isn't advocating acceptance of their lifestyle;"Homosexuality is not a lifestyle. End of discussion.

     
  • posted at 12:21 am on Thu, Jul 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    You have to enjoy the irony of the Mormon position.Here you have a Church whose founders were driven from their homes, beaten in mass and even murdered on account of their sexual deviancy.Now, almost 200 years later, the LDS is trying persecute another group based on their sexual practices?I guess hypocrisy really does ring eternal.

     

Recent Comments

Posted 12 hours ago by Thomas Heuer.

article: Letter: La Raza does support illegal im…

[thumbup] Thank you Walter I couldn't have said it better myself without taking 4 times as many words.

More...

Posted 13 hours ago by Joseph Wood.

article: Lodi Academy students on their way to h…

Another example of the incredible community spirit that exists in Lodi. It's a never-ending story.

More...

Posted 15 hours ago by Joe Baxter.

article: Letter: Friend’s car was wrongfully tow…

I have no sympathy for people who blatantly violate the law then whine when they have to suffer the consequences. The signs at the Lodi Pos…

More...

Posted Yesterday by Ed Walters.

article: Letter: Surprised by water bill

Until the meters were put in that flat rate was outstanding since you could use all the water you could get through a hose anytime you want…

More...

Posted Yesterday by Walter Chang.

article: Letter: La Raza does support illegal im…

"some bloggers here" Kevin, I was referring specifically about a handful of Archconservative/Retrogressive "Christain"…

More...

Video

Popular Stories

Poll

Loading…

Your News

News for the community, by the community.

Featured Events

Mailing List

Subscribe to a mailing list to have daily news sent directly to your inbox.

  • Breaking News

    Would you like to receive breaking news alerts? Sign up now!

  • News Updates

    Would you like to receive our daily news headlines? Sign up now!

  • Sports Updates

    Would you like to receive our daily sports headlines? Sign up now!

Manage Your Lists