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Letter: Voters are deliberately being disenfranchised

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Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:00 am

During the last few years, under the guise of voter fraud prevention, there have been deliberate efforts by Republican right wing legislators in a number of states to disenfranchise voters.

The laws passed to do this are specifically targeted at making it more difficult for women, minorities and young people to vote. The sole reason of course is that these groups tend to support more Democrats!

The voter fraud argument is in itself fraudulent. Voter fraud in the United States is almost non-existent. As examples, the Iowa Secretary of State (a Republican) found only five cases of actual voter fraud after two years and spending $150,000 . In the last decade the state of Texas (assumed to be most vigilant on this matter) has convicted only 51 people of voter fraud.

The right to vote, regardless of your political and social views, is fundamental to American Democracy. I consider these actions by right wing Republicans to be a complete disgrace to American principles, and an unveiled attempt to impose their particular views on the majority of Americans. I am sure that if they had their complete way we would return to 200 years ago when the right to vote was restricted to white, male property owners!

Fred Danielson

Woodbridge

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Welcome to the discussion.

53 comments:

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 2:36 pm on Tue, Mar 4, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    WOW! Nearly 24 hours to post a two-sentence response on this system?

    So much for spirited (or any other) kind of debate here. Sadly, this forum used to be the only reason why I have lodinews.com as one of the tabs on Internet Explorer. Considering that there’s not much left on the pages of the newsprint edition either, I guess it’s time to save a little money and cancel my subscription.

    Who’s to blame for this incompetence? It would seem logical to lay responsibility to whomever was tasked to review each and every post prior to posting, but we need to go back a couple of steps further. My first question is the most telling of all: why was it necessary to actually review each and every post prior to posting? Among those who post here, which ones are the worst in terms of violating the Rules of Conduct? Does the Lodi News-Sentinel keep statistics that might shed a little light upon this problem? I could hazard a guess, but since it would do little good at this point, I’ll just keep my opinion to myself. I just think it’s a shame that so-called adults have to behave so immaturely.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 4:11 pm on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    Yeah, two members of the New Black Panther Party. But rest assured, if that were two members of the TEA Party behaving like that the far left would be up in arms demanding an investigation as to why the charges were dismissed. Let's all try not to be so disingenuous, shall we?

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 4:09 pm on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    Oh good grief! At all polling stations there are voter registration forms. Anyone not registered who wishes to vote on that day can fill it out and then receive a ballot to do so. But AGAIN - the ballot will be treated as a Provisional Ballot. Please now refer below to the umpteen times I've tried to explain this.

    Here's a little tidbit more . . . as poll officers we are discouraged from informing those who vote provisionally that their ballot will likely not be counted - unless they specifically ask.

    Of course the actual point of what is now my diatribe is that somewhere along the line before anyone can actually cast a ballot that WILL be counted, they MUST produce proof that they are eligible to vote. Because of this, why-oh-why is it so doggone hard for all of us to produce that very same proof each time we cast our ballots? By requiring this we reduce the risk that someone might pretend to be someone else and cast a ballot in their stead and/or from permitting anyone to vote who might not be eligible.

    My question still stands: where is the list of those who claim to be disenfranchised? I'd like to know who they are and under what circumstances they claim they were thwarted from voting.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:44 pm on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Wow - TWO WHOLE members of the Black Panther Party!

    Charges dismissed. Must have thrown the whole election in Obama's favor if THAT is what you mean by "did not end well!"

    Chuckle.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:41 pm on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    This from the San Joaquin County Registrar of Voters:

    http://www.sjcrov.org/registration.html

    Last day to Register:

    The last day you can register to vote by U.S. mail for any election is 15 days prior to the election.

    The deadline to register to vote online using the California Online Voter Registration (COVR) website -http://registertovote.ca.gov is 12:00 midnight 15 days prior to the election.

    And this from FAQ's:

    "I became a new citizen after the registration deadline. Can I still register to vote?

    Yes. Persons who become citizens after the close of registration may vote ONLY in the ELECTION OFFICE between the 14th day before an election and ending at the close of polls on the election day following the date on which that person became a citizen. New Citizens must present a Certificate of Naturalization and declare that they have established residence in San Joaquin County."

    Haven't found anything regarding voter registration at the polling place.

    Can you provide that information, Mr. Kinderman?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:28 pm on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Doctor wrote: "And let me tell you, Ms. Bobbin. You have a long track record of disparaging ANYONE who has Conservative points of view.

    YOU CAN RUN BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE. "

    Can SOMEONE tell me why this comment was allowed to be posted?

    Sounds like Mr. Doctor is making a direct threat. But I suppose that is just fine with our moderator.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:55 am on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    While I am naturally horrified and saddened by so many who are still being murdered, raped, burglarized, etc. in this day and age, I wonder just how many American citizens are actually being disenfranchised. I'm naturally interested to know who they might be and under what circumstances they might believe their right to vote has in any way been denied. Can anyone provide a few names and facts surrounding such denial(s)?

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:33 am on Sat, Mar 1, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    Actually we DO have “same day voting registration” in California.

    On Election Day someone eighteen years of age or older visits their polling place. They are not on the rolls as a registered voter but they still wish to vote as should be their right. What’s the procedure?

    The potential voter is provided with a registration form and a ballot. They step over to the area where everyone else votes and fills out their ballot. They return the ballot to the polling officer who then receives it and places it into a “Provisional Ballot” envelope and seals it. The Voter Registration form is then inserted into the opening on the outside of the Provisional Voter envelope and handed back to the voter who is directed to place it into the receptacle where every other ballot is securely held. The voter is thanked for their vote and given a “I Voted Today” sticker to place upon themselves if they so desire. They walk away perhaps actually believing they voted.

    At the end of the day however their ballot which remains in the Provisional Ballot envelope is separated from the rest and placed into a larger envelope with the rest of the Provisional Ballots. After the rest of the procedures have been completed (ballots counted and reconciled), all of the ballots and other materials are sealed in a box and returned to the place where they will be counted. However, Provisional Ballots are not processed with the rest of the Ballots. And as I’ve stated at least twice now here it is unlikely that the ballots in the Provisional Ballot envelopes will ever be counted. But the Voter Registration form that accompanied the Provisional Ballot will be processed according to the law and procedures in place. When the next election rolls around, the person who voted provisionally will return to the Polling Place to find their name on the rolls. However, there will be a condition placed upon them to provide proof that they are eligible to vote by means of several types of identification cards, forms or passport. IF they provide proof at that time they will be handed a ballot to be filled out and placed in the secure container. This time their vote will actually be tabulated. If they DO NOT provide proof that they are eligible to vote, they will once again be handed a ballot and ONCE AGAIN after it is filled out it will be placed into a Provisional Ballot envelope.

    Until proof that we’re eligible to vote we can still fill out a Ballot – but unless an election is too close to call, it won’t be counted. Once again ad nauseam, no matter what we must prove that we are eligible to vote. This nonsense that getting an ID card or other such document to provide that proof is so hard on so many people is nothing more than a distraction; a means for the far left to get folks riled up for no good reason except to illicit anger and hatred.

    In fact, the only disenfranchisement that I’ve witnessed in recent years occurred in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the city of my birth. Some years ago members of the New Black Panther Party clearly intimidated people at the entrance to a polling station. As far as I’m concerned, that situation did not end well.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:19 am on Sat, Mar 1, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "Rare cases, Mr. Doctor?"

    I guess you are right. You must know what EVERY individual's circumstances are to make that statement.

    I congratulate you for keeping the statistics on that issue!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:16 am on Sat, Mar 1, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    So that's it, eh, Mr. Kinderman. The victims actually WANT to be victimized.

    I can only guess that you might have the same response to:

    In this day and age NO ONE is being ________ unless they want to be ________.

    Fill in the blank.

    Discriminated against.
    Raped.
    Robbed.
    Burglarized - Now I think YOU actually got a public dressing down for actually trying out THAT one.
    Murdered, etc., etc.


     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:41 am on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    In this day and age NO ONE is being disenfranchised unless they want to be disenfranchised.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:29 am on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2830

    Ms. Bobbin stated:

    To NOT BELIEVE that these instances exist is just quite ridiculous and illustrates the pretentiousness of those who were not born in "unremarkable" circumstances.

    -These cases are very rare in the U.S. That is what Mr. Kinderman meant, Ms. Bobbin.
    This is yet another example of YOU disparaging those with conservative points of view. Take a coffee break.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:20 am on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2830

    And let me tell you, Ms. Bobbin. You have a long track record of disparaging ANYONE who has Conservative points of view. You can run but you can't hide.[angry]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:49 pm on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2830

    It's only your vivd imagination working overtime, Ms. Bobbin.
    Jerome never said nor did he portray knowing firsthand how the system works. You just can't bring yourself to agreeing with anything he says. Perhaps you should spend a little bit less time trying to disagree with him AND others. I know it's hard for you to find common ground with people. But at least try. I promise you. It doesn't hurt.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:35 pm on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Mr. Nelson, please be so kind to inform us who, amongst the people that actually vote, don’t have the “life skills” to obtain a valid ID. Am I correct in what you are saying, is that people don’t have the life skills to obtain a valid ID, but do have the life skills necessary to make informed decisions in the voting booth?

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:04 pm on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    Walt Posts: 1117

    "experienced poll worker"

    [lol]

     
  • Charles Nelson posted at 9:27 am on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    Charles Nelson Posts: 259

    I think it's racist and misogynistic to assume that only minorities and women lack the necessary life tools to obtain a valid ID.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:39 am on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Doctor - read my comment above. Mr. Kinderman portrayed knowing FIRST HAND how the system works. I know how the system works and don't dispute his information.

    What I disputed was the FACT that HE PERSONALLY could not have experienced same day voter registration because it doesn't EXIST in CA yet.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:37 am on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Yes, this is even better.

    Please, "The Blaze?" Glenn Beck's conspiracy theory publication.

    "Obama and the IRS conspired to swing the vote in his favor." Brilliant!!

    Keep trying - It only gets better with each attempt by you to prove massive voter fraud.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:32 am on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    I know very well how the system works, Mr. Kinderman. I've been a voter for 40 years.

    What does matter is that the information you provided was written in such as manner that you portrayed yourself as PERSONALLY experiencing same day voter registration procedures as an "experienced poll worker," when that was obviously not the case as CA does not yet have same day registration.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:09 am on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2830

    It seems to me it's clear how it works. There is such a thing at making sure something works before it goes into effect. My only conclusion is Ms. Bobbin can't bring herself to agreeing on anything with Mr. Kinderman. Even something as straight forward as this. I'm not surprised.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:50 pm on Wed, Feb 26, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1377

    OOOOoooohnhhhh....Simon and his poison pen!

    Flat out no excuses censorship.

    Tell jack or rick or what ever the bosses' name is you're responsible.

    And I was just starting to read it before leaving for work and who ever is doing the route is doing an excellent job. Tell him/her to.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:18 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Bobbn posted: "Let's say you are a 85-90 year old African American born in, say, rural Georgia or Alabama, not born in a hospital, but at home, and never had a birth certificate. You have voted legally for most of your life. How do you get the documents necessary for the ID Card?"
    I am willing to bet the 85-90 year old African Americans born in rural Georgia or Alabama without benefit of a formal birth certificate are all receiving some sort of entitlements. They have problem proving their existence and citizenship when it comes to getting FREE MONEY. Does anyone think there are an abundance of Americans that fit this classification? Get real. Voter fraud does exist. How much? Nobody knows the true scope of voter fraud, only the incidents that have been exposed. In Colorado alone, some 10,000 non-citizens registered to vote. It is a FEDERAL crime for illegal aliens or non-citizens to register to vote. So, what does the Obama/Holder gang do? The go after the states that enact laws to help prevent this sort of crime. Disenfranchisement? Nope, Dis-is-Baloney.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 2:40 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    Not that it really matters, but it is obvious some don't understand how the voting system works. The rules in effect today have little or nothing to do with what might happen in the future. What I stated below are quite accurate.

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 11:25 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    Even better !

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/obamas-voter-id-scam-is-busted/

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:35 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Give me a break. WHO, in this day and age, does NOT have a valid ID of one form or another? A ridiculous argument, but it appears that's all liberals have in their arsenal.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 5:43 pm on Mon, Feb 24, 2014.

    Walt Posts: 1117

    "experienced poll worker"

    [lol]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 2:55 pm on Mon, Feb 24, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 358

    I wouldn't say disenfranchisement is a "totally GOP program," Mike, as that statement ignores the Democrats historic role in the Jim Crow south. But, I do remember all that nonsense in Florida in 2000, and the Republicans were at the heart of it. I don't remember letters being mailed and police being stationed in minority districts, but if that was the case, then I would also agree that was an attempt at voter suppression. And I would hope there was some legal action taken against those involved. Still, I don't think requiring voter registration is in itself an attempt at voter suppression, as long as the process to register is not too difficult.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 2:28 pm on Mon, Feb 24, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 358

    What about using your social security number? I would believe everyone has one of those for taxes, men to register for the selective service, to have a job, etc. In California, you can use the last four digits of your social security number when you register to vote. I'm not sure about other states, but that might be an idea to make the process less onerous.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:02 pm on Mon, Feb 24, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Kinderman wrote: "Here’s how it works: someone who has never registered wants to vote on Election Day. Fine. They walk in and claim to live at a specific address. Prior to voting however they have to fill out a voter registration form..."

    Funny that Mr. Kinderman knows "how it works."??

    California's SAME DAY VOTER REGISTRATION doesn't go into effect until MAYBE 2016. So we are to believe that this "experienced poll worker" "knows how it works?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:57 pm on Mon, Feb 24, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Doctor - your comment makes absolutely NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

    Whenever I have voted in person I actually pay attention to the envelope my ballot goes in and make sure it is put in the ballot box. Don't YOU?

    In fact, I used to vote absentee until I found out that those ballots are counted LAST.

    Once I went to my polling place and the old cow that looked up my name had a fit because her roll indicated I had an absentee ballot (which I brought with me to prove I wasn't voting twice). She had no clue what to do and made the biggest fuss until someone else told her to have me fill out the absentee ballot and put it in the ballot box.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:38 pm on Mon, Feb 24, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Just looking out for your interests, Mr. Kindseth.

    One of the few persons NOT LIKELY to laugh at you for believing ANYTHING on World News Daily is Andrew Liebich.

    I'm sure that "The American Thinker" MUST have something more credible than the article you referenced.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:02 am on Mon, Feb 24, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2830

    Ms. Bobbin,

    I believe you wouldn't be too happy if you found out you had been voting all these years without ID only to find out your ballot had been put in a provisional ballot envelope never to be couted unless you came forward with ID prooving your citizenship.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 4:33 pm on Sun, Feb 23, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1377

    Although those on the other side of the tracks will state otherwise, voter disenfranchisement is totally a gop program. What party saw to it that thousands of voters in the south, particularly Fl, were removed because they had the same names as prisoners. How many "Charles Johnson"s are there in Fl? I don't know, but if one was in prison, every other Charles Johnson in Fl (who was a registered democrat) was deleted. How would the political landscape have changed if Al Gore had received all the votes he was supposed to in 2000? No Iraq...no recession...no depression. What party sent out letters to registered democrats in some precincts (read: heavy minority population) advising them that due to expected heavy voter turnout, republicans would vote on Tuesday, Democrats on Wednesday? What party arranged for police officers to be near voting precincts on election day whose presence may have "dissuaded" some African Americans from voting?

    Yes, that other party wants to limit participation in voting because while republicans tend to vote more often as a group, the number of likely republican voters is dwindling. In a straight contest, moderate numbers of Democrats voting beats a heavy republican effort almost every time.

    So they persist in making it harder to vote. If they had their way, only white landowners would be allowed to vote. And their wives, and their children. And they'd find a way to let non-land owning republicans vote as well. Many still say this. Out in the open. Only land owners should be allowed to vote. Unbelievable. Charging someone anything to vote for identification ( I would assume this is why you don't need a driver's license to vote...costs money). I have a voter registration card I got in '92 when I left the morally corrupt gop and changed parties. I carry it when I vote. No one's ever asked me for it, but if they did I would show it. And they better not ever ask me for a driver's license.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 12:55 pm on Sun, Feb 23, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    The NAACP "Moral March" in North Carolina, formed to protest voter ID, was the epitome of hypocrisy. One of the DO'S" on the instructions to protesters was to bring a “driver’s license, passport or other valid photo id” to the march, and make sure they have their photo ID handy “at all times.” They had to have a photo ID to protest producing a photo ID to vote. Does it get any crazier? Liberals are so gulllible.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:46 am on Sun, Feb 23, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Let me tell you right now, Mr. Doctor - you are harassing me with all of your comments directed at ME and NO OTHERS in this forum.

    To find a good example of disenfranchisement you need go no further than the Arizona (YOUR STATE) to see that they have passed a law that allows blatant discrimination based on sexual orientation.

    I'm sure that YOU fully agree with the premise of that legislation, so it does not surprise me that you would agree with the disenfranchisement of legitimate voters also.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:42 am on Sun, Feb 23, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Not only having to pay for an ID card in many states (although some states that are attempting to enact the voter ID requirement are including the option for a FREE ID card), the cost of tracking down the required document(s) for such are card are onerous.

    Let's say you are a 85-90 year old African American born in, say, rural Georgia or Alabama, not born in a hospital, but at home, and never had a birth certificate. You have voted legally for most of your life. How do you get the documents necessary for the ID Card?

    You either cannot or go to great expense to somehow prove that you were born in the US.

    THAT IS DISENFRANCHISEMENT.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:30 am on Sun, Feb 23, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "or for whatever remarkable reason never had our births memorialized."

    Why on earth would you think, Mr. Kinderman, that it would be some "remarkable reason" for not having "had our births memorialized?"

    That is just totally naive and shows a lack of understanding of the world outside your own little bubble where things have been done exactly the way they should be done. I gave you an example from my personal experience - but somehow that just seems "remarkable" to you? I am sure that their are many, many people, like my father, who was born in 1922 to an immigrant mother and father who knew nothing of "hospital births" and "birth certificates." When you have eleven mouths to feed, "memorializing" ones birth is not the top priority on your list.

    This case is the same for many rural blacks in the South who either have no birth certificate or it cannot be located for whatever reason, ex. The local courthouse burned down, or whatever.

    To NOT BELIEVE that these instances exist is just quite ridiculous and illustrates the pretentiousness of those who were not born in "unremarkable" circumstances.

    As far as you "exhaustive list" of documents - I certainly hope that you noted that there are several (such as a Canadian passport) that will allow one to get a CA DL. Are Canadians now allowed to vote in the US?

    Ridiculous!

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 8:16 am on Sun, Feb 23, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    Joann, Please do not demand that people only us the sites that YOU approve of. You are not the "net approved" filter.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:57 am on Sun, Feb 23, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Bobbin, does your father still vote?

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 6:02 pm on Sat, Feb 22, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 358

    Wikipedia is right on here, Mike. There's a reason you don't even need a stamp when you mail off a voter registration card. And, you should Google "Alabama Literacy Test 1965" to check out what was meant as "literacy" back then. You can clearly see it was all about disenfranchisement, not literacy.

    So, back to topic--by providing this info about the poll tax, are you saying that because someone has to pay for a state-issued ID card that would be required to vote, that would be a form of a poll tax? If so, interesting argument. I can see your point. So, the first step, then, if they want to push through some sort of voter ID card is to make sure it is given to people at no charge. I wonder if that's even on the table for discussion by the legislators?

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 7:36 am on Sat, Feb 22, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1377

    The Twenty-fourth Amendment (Amendment XXIV) prohibits both Congress and the states from conditioning the right to vote in federal elections on payment of a poll tax or other types of tax. The amendment was proposed by Congress to the states on August 27, 1962, and was ratified by the states on January 23, 1964.

    In U.S. practice, a poll tax was used as a de facto or implicit pre-condition of the exercise of the ability to vote. This tax emerged in some states of the United States in the late 19th century as part of the Jim Crow laws. After the ability to vote was extended to all races by the enactment of the Fifteenth Amendment, many Southern states enacted poll tax laws as a means of restricting eligible voters; such laws often included a grandfather clause, which allowed any adult male whose father or grandfather had voted in a specific year prior to the abolition of slavery to vote without paying the tax. These laws, along with unfairly implemented literacy tests and extra-legal intimidation,[1] achieved the desired effect of disfranchising African-American and Native American voters, as well as poor whites.

    Hey, this lazy way is easier than coming up with your own thoughts!
    But I cannot be dishonorable. I got this from Wikipedia.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:22 am on Sat, Feb 22, 2014.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2830

    Mr. Kinderman stated:

    So all this whining about disenfranchisement is nothing but hot air from the dullards among us who don’t take the time to understand how our system of voting actually works.

    -Frankly,
    I believe Ms. Bobbin was hoping no on would take the time to read the rest of Mr. Kinderman's comment so her point would stick he too believes it's all about disenfranchisement.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 11:10 pm on Fri, Feb 21, 2014.

    Christina Welch Posts: 358

    I don't think requiring some form of voter registration is necessarily "a complete disgrace to the American principle" of democracy, but it really depends a lot on the process. Most democratic European countries require voter registration, but many actually automatically register all citizens, so the system is much easier on the people for them to exercise their right to vote. Maybe that is something for us to consider here in the U.S.? Seems like it might be a nice compromise.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:15 pm on Fri, Feb 21, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    As for proving the case of the writer of this LTE, I thought I was rather clear in my first paragraph in a post below where I wonder: “What Mr. Danielson fails to incorporate in his desperate letter are just how these ‘Republican right wing legislators’ are attempting to disenfranchise anyone.” I assumed that he was referring to the push to require some sort of identification at the polls prior to permitting each one of us to cast our ballots. Since Mr. Danielson has yet to respond here to respond to my confusion (which of course he is certainly not required to do), I’m still not sure what case he was attempting to make.

    To relieve any confusion let me restate my position. The case I was attempting to make is that even now proof of identification is already required before our first ballot can be cast. That’s why I question the fuss. The documentation at the polls lists each person registered to vote. However, if the election in question is the first time since registering to vote, it is clearly noted that said voter MUST show proof of who they are and where they live. Once again – if they don’t provide acceptable identification, they’ll still be provided a ballot – but it will not be counted as it will be placed into a Provisional Ballot envelope. Provisional Ballots are not counted on Election Day and are likely NEVER counted unless the result of an election is too close to call.

    However, if they do provide proof, from that point on they are not required to show ID. So what’s the harm in trying to protect their right by requiring the very same ID they provided at the time they first registered to vote and cast their first ballot?

    On the other hand, the ONLY reason that I can come up with for hooting and hollering against requiring proof would be to WANT someone to vote illegally. And the only political party I can think of that might want someone to be able to do that would be the most liberal of parties in our current political system.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 12:57 pm on Fri, Feb 21, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    Since in California in order to receive a driver license some proof of who we are, where we live and when and (God forbid!!) where we were born is required prior to issuance of that coveted little card that grants us the privilege (not the right as some so wrongly believe) to traverse about the state and everywhere else in America in either a car or truck or on a motorcycle. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffdl05.htm provides a nearly exhaustive list of “Acceptable BD/LP Documents.”

    The above is what it takes “today” to get an original driver license or identification card. I suppose they take into consideration that some among us were either never born or for whatever remarkable reason never had our births memorialized. I have to wonder though just how rare would it be for anyone to not possess the wherewithal to retrieve one of the many different kinds of “Acceptable BD/LP Documents” listed on the DMV website. Naturally, the oh-so-kind state worker at the Department of Motor Vehicles might just move the application along with nothing more than a wink and a nod - doubtful.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:27 pm on Thu, Feb 20, 2014.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1503

    Your voter fraud is the dems collecting phone numbers from voters they are registering how awful, how will our democracy stand? besides that WND really you don't think they are just a little bias they are also running a story that claims to know when the US dollar will collapse.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:05 pm on Thu, Feb 20, 2014.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1503

    Jerome any idea why all of the changes in voter rules by the right disproportionately affects the poor, the young and minorities or does this just seem like a coincidence to you? Also to vote illegally is punishable under perjury this is the same standard we use to allow witnesses to condemn people to death. If it's good enough to execute someone it should be sufficient to allow someone to vote. Unless there is some other reason the right is trying to make voting tougher for certain groups?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:37 pm on Thu, Feb 20, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    What is it about the pooh-poohers of voter disenfranchisement in this forum who think that everyone in the ENTIRE COUNTRY has access to documents such as their birth certificate or whatever else it takes to get a government issued ID?

    There are hundreds if thousands who have NO SUCH ACCESS and have voted legitimately for decades.

    My father was born at home and NEVER had a birth certificate issued. In fact, we had to figure out how to prove he where and when he was born by eye witness or census accounts in order to get a Death Certificate. Yes, in this country you have to prove that you were BORN before you can get written proof that you DIED!!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:30 pm on Thu, Feb 20, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    So, Mr. Kinderman, you are saying it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone committing voter fraud by either registering the same day or using someone else's name and address would NEVER affect an election? Sure sounds like you are proving the case for the letter writer!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:27 pm on Thu, Feb 20, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Do us all a favor, Mr. Kinselth, and NEVER AGAIN give us a link to WND a well known conspiracy theory website.

    This is all bogus news and the only one who believes it is, apparently, YOU and Andrew Liebich.

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 9:44 am on Thu, Feb 20, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    http://www.wnd.com/2014/02/democrats-busted-in-major-voting-scheme/?cat_orig=politics

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:39 am on Thu, Feb 20, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    What Mr. Danielson fails to incorporate in his desperate letter are just how these “Republican right wing legislators” are attempting to disenfranchise anyone. Could it be that by proving their identity and age through the use of an ID card is what this fuss is all about?

    As someone who has served my community at the polls on Election Day for the past several years, I could see how easy it might be for someone to attempt to vote illegally. Of course there is a system in place that still keeps that from happening. But I believe those to be far more egregious than simply asking for an ID card would be.

    Here’s how it works: someone who has never registered wants to vote on Election Day. Fine. They walk in and claim to live at a specific address. Prior to voting however they have to fill out a voter registration form - but then they’re provided with a “provisional” ballot. Just what is a provisional ballot you ask? Well, they look just like regular ballots (and they really are), but once they’re filled out they’re placed into a special envelope that is NOT opened until well after the election is over and all the regular ballots have been tabulated and races are over. What does this mean? It means that even though they were permitted to fill out the ballot, it wasn’t counted!!

    So what if the system was altered to the point where on that same Election Day if the potential voter wanted to register to vote and with the proper identification (such as a Driver License, state-issued ID or even a passport) those ballots would be placed along with all of the others and were counted after the polls closed?

    This disenfranchisement is only an issue because proof MUST still be determined prior to the actual counting of the ballot. Only IF any particular race or measure is too close to call are the provisional ballots taken into consideration. Otherwise, they’re left to collect dust in some warehouse in Sacramento or elsewhere and never opened. But the registration form (which is NOT enclosed in the provisional ballot envelope by the way, but is inserted in an opening on the outside) is put through the system for the following Election Day. And you’ll never guess what happens when Mr./Mrs./Ms. wannabe voter arrives at the polls to vote - that’s right, since they are newly registered voters they are REQUIRED to show some form of ID in order to vote and have their ballots counted that day. If they do not provide the requisite ID guess where their ballot goes again. Yes indeed, right back into that nice provisional ballot envelope where it again sits without being counted.

    So all this whining about disenfranchisement is nothing but hot air from the dullards among us who don’t take the time to understand how our system of voting actually works.

     

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