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National Guard members deserve respect

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Posted: Thursday, April 4, 2013 12:00 am

I cannot let this go unanswered. My roommate in Vietnam is dead. He was a brave National Guard warrior like George W. Bush. For one of your readers to denigrate such patriots is disgraceful. Mr. Whomever-you-are, get off your (duff) and go get shot at.

In the meantime, quit spouting Democratic Party propaganda and enter the real world. He who trains for combat may well end up there. Even Gen. Powell would reject your observations and distortions. Get your facts straight or get out of the game!

Jerry Osgood

Galt

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Welcome to the discussion.

27 comments:

  • Mike Adams posted at 11:17 am on Mon, Apr 8, 2013.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1383

    Todd, I think you're being excessive. Any troops are only as good as their training and their commanders. Unfortunately, at that time, most of the DOD budget went to Vietnam war. These Gaurdsmen perhaps recieved no training in crowd control, or very little at best based on their formations as seen in pictures from the time.
    The fact that they were issued live ammo is also a big sign their commanders had very little training. While most protests of note were at large univiersities, most college campuses had rather peaceful protests. And we're talking about a college in Ohio, not a larger, more vocal group that were commonly shown on TV like Berkeley.

     
  • Doug Chaney posted at 3:48 pm on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

    advocate Posts: 501

    Joe, it seems you would rather watch faux news and the great military reporting of the Iran Contra gunrunner Ollie North and Geraldo Rivera, who dummied up the photo shoot of the "enemy" and their whizzing bullets flying by his head and body, who were actually friendly "shooters" who tried to make him look brave? Or the two draft dodgers, Hannity and O'Rally?

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 8:15 am on Sun, Apr 7, 2013.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1383

    Kevin: Kent State was the result of poorly trained and led Guardsmen (and not necessarily their fault). Who ever handed out live ammunition must have been out of their heads. Yes the demonstrators were throwing rocks. The guard was there to restore order. Clearly, the demonstrators were incensed at the Guard's presence and this only raised the tension that was already boiling over.

    I think you're right, some Guardsman flicked off his safety (because he was scarred, and that's nothing to be ashamed of) and accidentily fired, causing many other Guardsmen to do the same. Firing 30-06 rounds into humans causes casualties. I'm surprised to this day that more were killed. And unfortunately, some of the casualties weren't necessarily the ones demonstrating. Like I said, who ever issued live ammo to wasn't thinking. Fixed bayonets would have been better. No one want's to walk into a pointy blade at their upper body. Best would have been for the Guard to withdraw.
    I'm sure who ever was in command that day didn't want a retreat against mostly un-rock throwing kids on his record so he ordered his troops to stand their ground. In hind sight, just a terrible day of bad desicions, by both sides.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:23 pm on Fri, Apr 5, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I agree again. I hope not to make this a habit. [smile]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:21 pm on Fri, Apr 5, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I agree with you Kevin. Well said.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 11:07 am on Fri, Apr 5, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 445

    OOPS! should have read ; novaonline.nvcc.edu/eli/evans/his135/events/.../KentState.html.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 10:52 am on Fri, Apr 5, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2023

    From what i have seen from the articles and tv documenteries on the issue the Protesters weren't doing anything to warrent being shot at. BUT they weren't exactly innocent either. Throwing rocks and bottles at armed people in a tense situation is not the best survival plan.

    What I suspect happened was ONE guard had his finger on the trigger, something happened where he pulled the trigger and everyone next to him assumed he was shooting at a real threat and returned fire.

    But NONE of the violence that day should have happened. The result of it though was a real learning experience for crowd control policies since then.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 10:48 am on Fri, Apr 5, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2023

    Yes, the National Guard deserves nothing but disdain and contmpt. I mean come on, all they do is rush into national disasters to save lives, help wounded, bring relief supplies and put their own lives in danger to protect businesses from looters.

    If Mr Cronin holds people who give up time with their families, the safety of home and put their jobs on hold to help strangers in need in such "UTTER DISDAIN & CONTEMPT", it makes me wonder who warrents respect in his book?

     
  • robert maurer posted at 10:12 am on Fri, Apr 5, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 445

    ...And what were those protestors doing to cause this? novaonline.nccc.edu/eli/evans/his135/events/.../KentState.html.

     
  • Doug Chaney posted at 9:55 am on Fri, Apr 5, 2013.

    advocate Posts: 501

    And what about the most infamous warhawk of them all, Richard Cheney? How many deferments was he given?

     
  • Todd Cronin posted at 9:15 am on Fri, Apr 5, 2013.

    Todd Posts: 113

    jerry osgood,

    brave national guard warrior?????
    Oh, you mean like the one who SHOT and KILLED INNOCENT, UNARMED PEOPLE on May 4th 1070?????
    The ONLY thing the "national guard"deserves from me is my
    UTTER DISDAIN & CONTEMPT!!!!!!

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:31 pm on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are never very good at thinking

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:34 pm on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1846

    " I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well placed ... managed to wangle slots in reserve and National Guard units"
    Yet you aren't angry that Clinton used his powerful family ties to totally avoid military service. I am thinking you are really angry because you didn't enlist in the Guard or make it to Canada before you got drafted.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:16 pm on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Meant to say did not have to trash Bush he did it himself.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:31 pm on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1846

    Liberals aren't trashing Bush? Do you ever think before you post? Get real.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:39 pm on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Liberals did not trash George W Bush. He did it to himself. He used political pull to get into ANG to avoid service in a war he supported and someone had to go in his place. He did not take his chances like everyone else. No amount of you jumping up and down and calling people names is going to change that. The reality is that you know it is true and do not think he did anything wrong. That says a lot about you.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:01 pm on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1846

    Less than 5% of the NG members saw active duty in VN. Thousands more were deployed for support duties around the world. Bush was enlisted and served in the ANG.The cheating, lying Clinton was a draft dodger. If the liberals want to trash talk Bush for by claiming he received "special consideration" because of his influential family, they shouldn't forget about Clinton's non-service compliments of his influential family. I recall the 60 Minutes episode attempting to expose BS about Bush's military service. Consequently Dan Ranther was demoted, the executive producer and others were force to resign in shame when it was proven their information was falsified. I haven't watched 60 Minutes siince. I am sure the liberal Clinton lovers would love to forget about both of these incidents.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 2:47 pm on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 445

    The point is that Clinton's quote about being for the war before Fulbright and against the war when associated with Fulbright, as well as the complete documentation on the sites that Kevin and I mentioned mean that some do their homework while some retell propaganda. Remember ABC's newsanchor Dan Rather being fired and humiliated for broadcasting lies about Bush's military service record for leftwing political propaganda purposes? Do you recall his lame,dishonest excuses?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:20 pm on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    and your point is?

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 12:45 pm on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Clinton's Uncle Raymond Clinton personally lobbied Senator Fulbright, William S. Armstrong, the chairman of the three-man Hot Springs draft board, and Lt. Comdr. Trice Ellis, Jr., commanding officer of the local Navy reserve unit, to obtain a slot for Clinton in the Naval Reserve. After about two weeks waiting for Bill Clinton to arrive for his preliminary interview and physical exam, Ellis said he called (Clinton's uncle) Raymond to inquire - 'What happened to that boy?' According to Ellis, Clinton's uncle replied - 'Don't worry about it. He won't be coming down. "It's all been taken care of.' "

     
  • robert maurer posted at 10:55 am on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 445

    In my opinion, I have always respected and admired the people that served our country,especially during times of war, whether they were volunteers or draftees. I have a problem with any draft dodger being the supreme leader of our military. My dad served in the National Guard in WW2 and I missed the draft into Viet Nam by a couple of years. I signed up at the Post Office for selective service in 1976, right after high school graduation and my 18th birthday. I had heard that if one signed up voluntarily,one had a few options regarding his service, while those who were drafted got shipped to wherever Uncle Sam wanted them and doing whatever Uncle Sam assigned them. I don't know how true that was then or how or if it applies today.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:22 am on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    He did not enlist. Yes, both Clinton and Bush had the same goal of avoiding combat in Vietnam. The difference is that Bush supported the war and Clinton did not. I know that those on the right cannot see the difference but it is the central issue.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 10:04 am on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 445

    The site Kevin referred to stated that Clinton DID sign up for the reserves, but never showed up when called upon. Did you misinterpret the article or did you not read it. Here is a link that will help get your facts straight. I've posted it before,but it seems that opinions trump documentation;www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news 1884984 Seems that Bush and Clinton achieved the same goal( avoiding active combat ) by entirely different means.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:25 am on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I read your link
    Clinton never enlisted in the reserves. that is a lie.

    This is my view.
    I think the Vietnam was war a tragedy and a mistake
    I have great respect for my fellow veterans who served there
    I have great respect for those who stood up, refused to be drafted and went to jail for being against that insanity.
    I have respect for those who went to Canada. They might never have been able to come home.
    I understand what people, like Bill Clinton, who were against the war did. They were between a rock and a hard place.
    I have no respect for those, like Dick Cheney or Mitt Romney, who supported the war and let others fight it.
    I despise people like George Bush who supported the war and used political pull to get out serving, forcing someone else to do it

    Life is not simple. You cannot compare what George W Bush did to what Bill Clinton did. It is not in the same league

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:40 am on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2023

    "We are lucky for if all we had to depend on were heroes like George W Bush for defense there would be no America."

    Or Clinton.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/felon.asp

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:21 am on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Many of my roommates died and were wounded in Vietnam. I was living with them at the time. Unlike you there were times I got to watch it happen. I also got to have experience of being wounded myself.

    George W Bush used political pull to jump to the head of a long waiting list to join a unit of the Air National Guard that had no chance of seeing service in Vietnam. I will repeat what Colin Powell said about this:

    The policies — determining who would be drafted and who would be deferred, who would serve and who would escape, who would die and who would live — were an antidemocratic disgrace ... I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well placed ... managed to wangle slots in reserve and National Guard units. Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country.

    George W Bush is a physical coward for using political pull to get out of serving in a war he supported. He is a moral coward for never coming clean about his behavior at that time.

    It makes me angry when someone like you compares George W Bush’s cowardice to the National Guard and Reserve soldiers who put their lives on the line and many of whom paid the ultimate price. Your comparison is an insult to these brave men and women. We are lucky for if all we had to depend on were heroes like George W Bush for defense there would be no America.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 7:26 am on Thu, Apr 4, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Osgood: First, thank you for your service.

    I think that you have greatly misunderstood the comments with regard to GW Bush's military service.

    Bush was allowed to join the Texas Air National Guard, jumping many other applicants. He had a six year commitment to the Guard - the first two on active duty - ALL of which he used for training ONLY. Bush's unit at the Guard had no chance of being deployed anywhere overseas, let alone to Vietnam.

    During his remaining four years he was required to maintain training and attendance, which he did not. In addition, the F102 fighters that he had trained on were due to be retired, negating his ability to serve in active duty as a fighter pilot anyway.

    And I believe that the person you are slamming for "spouting Democratic Party propaganda" is also a veteran of the Vietnam war who ACTUALLY served in-country.

    Next time, get your facts straight before denigrating another person's service record solely for partisan purposes.

     

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