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Women should not be allowed in combat

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Posted: Saturday, February 2, 2013 12:00 am

Leon Panetta, the Secretary of Defense, has made a most tragic decision. He has allowed women to fight in a combat situation alongside men, and it makes me wonder if he would advocate a daughter of his putting her life into a possible live-or-die situation.

If a corpsman is needed to treat a combat-wounded Marine, all modesty must be a thing of the past. Even better, have an all-female squad or platoon with a female in charge; the problem of being inappropriate would be removed.

Women, in a way, already contribute by driving trucks and taking part in other non-combat situations. Some women also fly the most modern aircraft and are very good at their jobs. Aircraft carriers are not called "The Love Boat" for no reason, as many pregnancies have happened. Men and woman get lonely, and hormones will take over in an 18-year-old man or woman who would just as soon be somewhere else.

Ed Walters

Lodi

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111 comments:

  • Ed Walters posted at 4:54 pm on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    To anyone that gives a hoot-- Let all the woman take the place of men, you want it, go go for it and lets see what happens. As far as they are concerned they can do a mans work, so let `em. Let me know when sleeping in the rain and mud, no showers, no sanitation, very little food, walking for days without a break starts to wear a little thin. But remember you ask for it and now you got it for at least 3 years. Oh and I forgot, someone is trying to kill you. Just might give you a different prospective.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:26 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    Thank you Patrick. My "gumption" has long been a blessing AND and curse.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:27 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Kevin: I give you credit...most people here run and hide...you stood up That takes...like my grandmother would say...gumption...today you are a man.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:51 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Accepted. Combat is the same way and mistakes are made...and sometimes people die ...here we won't.


     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 7:58 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    Sorry about that Mr Maple. You jumoed into the conversation and yesterday was so busy I failed to notice it was you who I was responding to. I mistakenly attributed another posters comments to you yesterday.

    Again, My appoloigies.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 8:09 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    What happens when people get caught in a lie...they accuse the adversary of being mean and unfair for pointing out the lie. Hillaryesque you are. As for God and my character...I think he will vouch for me...as will many other people. I never made comments about shooting situations or made any sexist jokes..you have trapped yourself.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:59 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mrp...not sire who you are talking to here...never made any of the refered to comments save for not being trapped...this is stuff you have made up. As for Custer he was an egomaniac not a leader...rea a bit further next time

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 6:53 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    "mrp...leaders do not get trapped"

    Oviously you have no knowledge of mlitary history because great leaders have been trapped through out all of history. Custard comes to mind. Many leaders are trapped in every war. How a leader DEALS with such adverse conditions speaks volumes as to leadeship ability and strength of character.

    Let's look how you dealt with adverse conditions on this subject. You got insultive, billigerant and hostile. You also resorted to saying mothers of childern should go get in "Shooting situations" for peace and quiet., made sexist "jokes" and continually dismissed perfectly capable women who desire to serve their country as just making political staments or trying to prove a point, oblivious to the very real possibilty that they want to join for the same reasons you can. Your character has come through loud and clear. On other posts you claim to be a follower of God, go back and reread your repeated disrespect and personal attacks on people and tell me where that behavior honors God? Although I recognize some of your post were so over the top they were removed from the boards.

    As I said, character always shows through. Yours is a negative force. I'm done with it.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:57 pm on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    "Soldier up" is a term used by combat leaders all the time, meaning that they can rise to the occasion. If a woman is a soldier and a man is a soldier...your comment is a silly one.

    mrp...leaders do not get trapped. I was trained in Ft Sill OK to be a combat leader as an FO and Artillery NCO. As a draftee I obtained the rank of SSgt E-6 and Nuclear Weapons Battalion NCOIC which required a T/S clearance...all in two years. Since both of my brothers were already in Viet Nam, they protested my deployment, my assignment was changed...I was sent elsewhere, We were attacked by a faction of the Baader-Meinhoff gang at our NATO 23 site near Heidelburg.

    Over 90 members of my family served. Both of my brothers died for this country...I don't need a smart a-- like you trying to question my abilities, education or the sacrifices we made as a family. You? You didn't serve...period. You have no education, experience or knowledge of military procedures, training or worth.

    Andrew: What the SSgt did was quite impressive...I will give you that one...she was trapped and had no choice...it is much different to do it on a daily basis. We will just have to agree to disagree. "One swallow does not make a summer, neither does one fine day; similarly one day or brief time of happiness does not make a person entirely happy." Aristotle

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 7:36 am on Wed, Feb 6, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1535

    A recent study, reported by Fox, states that there are currently 22 veteran suicides a day this along with the prevalence of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder shows that men aren’t all that suited for war either.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:51 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    A literal festival of ignorance...

    In 2005 Staff Sergeant Leigh Ann Hester received the Silver Star.
    [sleeping]

    http://www.examiner.com/article/women-combat-pose-a-host-of-problems

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:47 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    BTW: Yes my last question is a trap laying in the shadows. Do you have the tools to deal with it?

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:46 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    "I have to as a leader, TRUST that my men can do the job, that they can "soldier up". "

    A "leader" who makes sexist jokes and demeans women.

    I have freely admited that I have not served how about some honesty from you, When was the last time you "lead" men in combat?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 8:32 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    We ALWAYS LIMIT who is on the front line and who sees combat. Always have and probably always will. The demands of the job are far beyond the physical capabilities of women and most men (55%). The Navy Seals test has proven this time and again. That is a fact. Starting with the American Revolution, war has successively put more and more physical and mental demand on the individual soldier and unit than each previous conflict. Each time the standards for participation goes up because the enemy capabilities have gone up...be it physical or suicidal or that they do not fight in a conventional manner ...they cheat...we have "no fire zones" they don't...they kill women and children we don't. Women have yet to meet the on the ground combat capabilities...physical or mental toughness, esprit de corps, troop cohesion or a host of other NECESSITIES in a combat situation. I have to as a leader, TRUST that my men can do the job, that they can "soldier up". I have to KNOW they CAN! This is a social experiment and people are going to die because of it.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 7:28 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 549

    Did you check out the poll? It's more awesomer.

    Obama is preparing to declare martial law (44%, 1,843 Votes)
    Homeland Security is arming itself to crush any patriots who might start a Second Revolution (31%, 1,295 Votes)
    I don't know, but I fear a government that would arm itself against its own citizens (11%, 469 Votes)
    The White House is planning to arm its "civilian national security force" (11%, 454 Votes)

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 7:16 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 549

    Absolutely.
    Who's more the fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi Wan

     
  • Doug Chaney posted at 6:34 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    advocate Posts: 502

    Mr. Maple, i am not a veteran either. Due to some very bad choices and anger management issues, some of which I still deal with, I was given the choice of joining the armed forces or going to prison. At the recruiting office I was told that I needed an attitude adjustment due to my violent behavior and was classified IV-F and remanded back to court to begin my federal prison sentence. I was released after two and a half years and continued on my life of crime. After another state prison sentence and then a parole violation by the federal court system, returned to yet another federal prison sentence in a California federal prison. Luckily, by age 28, I settled down, got married and had two children and began my life of alcoholism and drug abuse. I've been around the block a few times and always envied my high school buddies that either joined or were drafted into the military to fight in Viet Nam, where many of them lost their lives. To this day my biggest regret is that I let my anger and bad decisions cost me a chance to serve my country along side my best friends. I do admire those who have served this great country to protect our freedoms and make this the greatest nation in the free world, or any other world. Thank you for being one of those special persons.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 12:18 pm on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Savor the awesomeness!

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 10:57 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 549

    hahahahahahahahaha!

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 10:53 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Kevin wrote: "So why do you want to limit WHO that mission leader can pick to give the best chance to complete the mission? "

    And that pretty much sums it up.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 10:20 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 549

    [thumbup]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:50 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Why do those opposed to women in combat continue to argue emotion over fact?

    Female soldiers have been in “COMBAT UNITS”, despite regulations against it and a law requiring prior notice to Congress since March of 2004.
    [sleeping]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 3:21 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    That Mr. Barrow would share these opinions in public is outstanding and it is further astonishing that anyone would come to his defense. If I thought he was being sarcastic His comment above would be hilarious unfortunately I think Mr. Barrow is actually serious. How does anyone have these opinions in today’s world? The comment above has to be in the top ten of the most narrow minded, ignorant comments ever submitted. Congratulations Mr Barrow.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 3:15 am on Tue, Feb 5, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839


    Mr Mauer wrote:

    Out of curiosity, I just googled code pink and the first line read as follows; code pink is a women-initiated grassroots peace and justice movement working to end U.S. funded wars and occupations,to challenge militarism.

    -Ms Bobin,

    Evidently you have turned a blind eye to the heated protests by Code Pink at military recruitment offices. Unconsciencous Objectors seems to be the proper term for defining Code Pink.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 10:36 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    "Again it is the mission leader's responsibility to pick his combat personnel...not mine and certainly not yours."

    So why do you want to limit WHO that mission leader can pick to give the best chance to complete the mission? I agree, a leader wants the BEST person for the job, especially when facing the real chance of a fire fight. But YOU seem to think that a woman is NEVER the best person for ANY front line, combat role based solely on the fact that they are a woman. I know different. I know there are women who can succeed in combat just as men have.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:52 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    It is "people like me" who made the assessments and decisions as to who was qualified and capable of the job. And NO they have NOT been on the frontline combat missions...they have been suppiort and mission status control. The problems with your argument are the assumptions you make about your information. I don't believe all men are suited for mission combat. Why would I put my medic out as point? Or my radioman? Why would I believe anyone was capable of covering my ass in a firefight when they come with no experience? You are obviously not a veteran or combat trained veteran. I wouldn't choose you either. Again it is the mission leader's responsibility to pick his combat personnel...not mine and certainly not yours.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:42 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    As always, great posts Kevin.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 5:15 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    It is "People like you". You have said over and over again that putting a woman on the front line means nothing but death and suffering for the men around them. You have said over and over that women are incapible of defending theor country even though they have done it through out history and currently serve in countries, on the front lines, with honor.

    I have no doubt you have no problem with "women" in general. It is only when they want to defend their country you seem to think they are weak and incapible of doing anything right. You have a double standard for women. You underestimate their abilities on the battlefield even though it has been proven.

    You have offered no reason other than male Machismo WHY women can't serve THIS country with tha same honor they have in countries around the world.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:50 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    No Kevin...it is NOT "people like me" who have served their country, community and fellow man. It is NOT "people like me" who hold others back, but rather push them forward...I coached both genders. It is NOT "people like me" who put their life on the line to save others. It is NOT "people like me" that employees people in positions of authority. It is NOT "people like me" who believe that putting people's lives on the line...especially OTHER people's lives...is a political football, baseball, basketball or soccer ball. Again DEAD IS DEAD...and the pensioned politicians sitting on their fat assees in Washington don't care. By the way...I helped coach a woman who played in women's professional baseball...I do care WHERE the go.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 3:44 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    AND that is why Joe Baxter is no longer our cable guy.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 2:39 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 447

    Steve, this may sound arrgant,but is not intended to be. Lodi has its share of gangs.Fortunately for you, you don't live in a neighborhood where guns may save your life or a neighbor's.Personally I would never be caught unarmed anywhere in stockton. Spokane has had several gang related murders already this year,and where I am,about 30 miles away is redneck and aryan folks who are armed to the teeth and keep the garbage away.I hope that in my lifetime, I will never need to use deadly force, but all criminals know not to invade a home when they know that the occupants are armed.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:18 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    "Why are there NO women playing in the NFL? The NBA? The CFL? American or National Leagues? The USL or FIFA?"

    Put bluntly, because of people like you who see women as incapible, weak creatures who need protection. There are a number of young girls who are fighting for their chance to get into the "men's" sports leagues. But as long as they are being confronted with a symphany of "you can't", even though they can, they will never make it. MEN will stop them, NOT their abilities.

    You are right, it is about who you have that is best for the job to give the best chance for success in battle. I recognize that some women can be the right tool used. Ohers can't see that simply because of gender assiged roles.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 2:11 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 447

    Mr.Maple; thank you and your family for your service to this country in the military and in civilian life. One may judge a person's character by their words and deeds. Those who are wise enough to do so,that is.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:04 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Why are there NO women playing in the NFL? The NBA? The CFL? American or National Leagues? The USL or FIFA? The technology in ground combat is only supplemental...stand up at the wrong time and you are DEAD...don't respond to a situation quickly enough or enough strength...someone else is DEAD. There are NO DO-OVERS in combat. Abilities and trust are everything. Women

    Kevin: The argument goes back to abilities, leadership and preparation on the ground. Who is there...what needs to be done...who can do it...the probability for success and the possibilities for failure...now what and plan B.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 1:25 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    Anyone who doubts the power of women on the frontlines needs to understand they are already there, have been there and have been an asset to armies they fight with.

    A referance: http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/tayvie.html

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 1:10 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    There is an old adage that says ""The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". (Thanks Mr. Einstein)

    Women may not fight like men, they may not be as tough and brutal as men, but they can both DO the job their way (much like Mr. Maple's 5'3 soldier would FIND the way to wield the 50 cal if he had to) AND may find alternatives to sending wave after wave of soldiers to take one hill.

    I do not understand WHY people see being a woman as a disability/disadvantage. The more they try to defend their position the more it shows they do not understand women at all. Over and over they argue "as long as they know their place" style arguments. And over and over women have proven their place is succeeding in areas men have long claimed they (women) were incapable of performing in.

    I for one will always embrace the strength of women, not cower from it.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 12:54 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    "I have asked for those who post on this subject to give their military background and thus far no one has chosen to do so."

    Thank you for proving your "honesty" scale. You posted this challenge on the other post and I reponded. Kevin Paglia posted at 4:20 pm on Tue, Jan 29, 2013.
    Posts: 1569 "No, I am not a veteran." Do you think blatently lying is a leadership quality? How about judging people based solely on their sex, is that a leadership quality?

    Over and over you decide women are INCAPABLE of performing ANY of the tasks men do on the front lines simply because they are women. You ignore two facts, A) that there are many women who are physically capible of keeping up with men in standard combat. And B) there are countries around the world that PROVE this fact by having women on the front lines.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:28 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr M: Thank your parents for their service. My Aunts (4) served in the Army Air Corps and Uncles (7) in the Navy and Army / Air Corps during WWII...since then we have over 90 family members who have become Veterans or will become Veterans once their enlistment is up, as am I and my father and brothers.

    Your comment: "...and are chosen to do so." is exactly right. It is up to the leader on the ground to make that decision...you don't send your radioman out as you point man nor do you send your medic with the 60 squad. I know of no 6'5 tunnel rats nor any 5'3" ammo or 50 cal men.

    I have asked for those who post on this subject to give their military background and thus far no one has chosen to do so. So I ask what intelligence or experience do they speak from? What leadership experience or qualities can they display? I ask also WHO would follow them into combat. From what I gather most of them are merely utilizing the old doctorial smoke enema...while their lips move.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 12:24 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    When all is said and done, I don't think it is Joe Baxter and his lady's edition pink browning buckmaster that are holding off the Luxembourgian hoards.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 12:21 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Robert, I support the 2nd Amendment as much as the next guy but I can't help but wonder what pending foreign invasion my firearms are deterring?

    The Grenadians, perhaps? I think our Coast Guard ought to be enough to hold them off for the time being.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 12:19 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    And Mr Baxter..... if nothing else, I admire your honesty in ranking yourself below the aforementioned "dimmest bulbs".

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 12:17 pm on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Chuckle.... I only meant to say that, in the current context, you are quite capable of defending yourself.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 10:34 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1850

    "I think it should be obvious to even the dimmest of bulbs that she was being sarcastic."
    Congratulations on being qualified to get her sarcasm.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 9:48 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 447

    Out of curiosity, I just googled code pink and the first line read as follows; code pink is a women-initiated grassroots peace and justice movement working to end U.S. funded wars and occupations,to challenge militarism... In case those people haven't figured it out yet, the only reason we haven't been invaded militarily since W.W.2 is because we have the most heavily armed citizenry in the world as well as the most technologically advanced and armad military on the face of God's green earth and that is the reason we have the freedom to express our opinions. Both of my parents served my country during W.W.2. My dad served in the coast guard and my mom served in the air force.It is my opinion that anybody male or female should be able to fight on the front lines of battle if they are qualified and are chosen to do so.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:45 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Docktor wrote: "I can just see the reaction from Code Pink when they realize they are in the crosshairs of selective service."

    From this and previous comments, I believe that Mr. Docktor has a false understanding of what Code Pink is about.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:31 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1535

    That Ed would share these opinions in public is outstanding and it is further astonishing that anyone would come to his defense. If I thought he was being sarcastic this letter would be hilarious unfortunately I think Ed is actually serious. How does anyone have these opinions in today’s world? This letter has to be in the top ten of the most narrow minded, ignorant letters ever submitted congratulations Ed.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:29 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Sorry to have placed you in that position, Mr. Schmidt, but you are quite perceptive as opposed to our resident bully.

     
  • Doug Chaney posted at 6:59 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    advocate Posts: 502

    Joe, what would an ex air force flyby know about another blogger that seems to ruffle his feathers and make some wild about JoBob going to a recruiter to enlist to fight in our endlless, unnecessary wars, especially the one in the wrong country that was started by our president falsifying security documents to gain the confidence and enough votes to pursue the war in Iraq? My take is that Bush, jr, only wanted revenge on Saddam for wanting "to kill my daddy".

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:52 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    The military is in the process of changing a whole raft of rules to accommodate the recent change in policy. I think it is a little early to say what the rule on registration of women will be.

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Selective Service, a fossil relic of the Cold War, abolished in the near future. Congress is no more likely to enact a draft than it is to balance a budget.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:49 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    The edification of Mr Dockter may be beyond the powers of us mere mortals.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:13 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    For the record, I don't have any problem with registering women although I suspect a more likely outcome is the eventual abolition of selective service which is an outdated relic of the Cold War designed to respond to a massive war in Europe against the Soviet Union.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:06 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    And it is just as obvious that some males (lets not cloud the discussion with the term men) are made for drooling in a corner.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:05 am on Mon, Feb 4, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Far be it from me to defend Ms. Bobin, but I think it should be obvious to even the dimmest of bulbs that she was being sarcastic.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:06 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Please...if you are a veteran...post your name, rank, branch of service, time in svc and training here.......

    Combat preparedness, capability, and who participates is and must be determined by the leader of the mission ..that is HIS responsibility and HIS alone...period. NOT POLITICIANS or JUDGES nor YOU...period..... You here CANNOT make that determination even if you were there......

    As some here already know...DUTY...is to your men first. HONOR...is to your men first. COUNTRY...is last for a reason...if you die it is then the duty of your country to honor you. Combat leadership includes all of these elements and more...the ABILITY to protect your troops and the willingness to sacrifice your life in that moment of truth...to save them.

    I request now that you honor those who gave the ultimate to their troops and country...read about 25 of the CMH winners citations. If you can't or won't then find something else to discuss.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:03 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Good points Ed. If the envelope is pushed too far with this blurring of the lines between males and females we could just see women required to register with selective service. Frankly, I don't think
    Bobin and Co. want this. But the road is always paved with good intentions. They say all
    they want is women to have their day in the sun. Of course the first to cry foul if this does materialize will not only be Bobin and Co. but the womens rights groups or peace activists. I can just see the reaction from Code Pink when they realize they are in the crosshairs of selective service. Ah, the unintended consequences of blurring the lines.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:35 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Panetta has lifted the ban and this is why Mr. Kinderman...

    http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/why-is-government-stockpiling-guns-ammo/


     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:24 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Female soldiers have been in “COMBAT UNITS”, despite regulations against it and a law requiring prior notice to Congress since March of 2004!
    [sleeping]

    The 3rd Infantry at Fort Stewart was deployed to Iraq in January 2005. WITH WOMEN!
    [sleeping]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:58 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1850

    The DROP OUT rate in SEAL training is around 90% according to Wikipedia. What a bunch of LOSERS!!
    Really? Everyone of those "dropouts" have more class and patriotism in their little fingers than liberal whiners could ever have.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:41 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Ummm.... Brian, are you suggesting that Eddie is aware that what he is posting is false and is knowingly lying about it?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 3:16 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Docktor wrote: "The link you provided only goes to prove women have been killed in wars. Are you suggesting we lower the standards for men to qualify for combat roles so as not to make women feel less capable?"

    Apparently both you and Mr. Walters do not pay attention to the details of stories likes this - only the headlines.

    There has already been discussion about the qualifications that women must meet if they want to enter the ranks of combat troops. No one is saying that the qualifications should be LOWERED for women.

    Besides, there are already a HUGE number of MALES who do not qualify for combat duty and have failed the physical tests required.

    Mr. Kinderman brought up a ridiculous challenge earlier on this thread about "how many women were assigned" to a Navy SEAL unit. None, was his answer.

    How many MEN are current or former Navy SEAL's? A VERY, VERY small percentage of total troops. The DROP OUT rate in SEAL training is around 90% according to Wikipedia. What a bunch of LOSERS!!

    When my husband attended and graduated OCS back in 1974, his class started with 200 individuals who had to have a history of excellent service, be recommended by a senior officer who had personal knowledge of their service and character, and had to pass an extensive background check. The class started with high hopes.

    20 graduated.

    I guess we can conclude that there are many MEN who also cannot live up to certain military standards also.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:02 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1850

    Jerome, it is obvious some women are cut out for fighting. Just take our very own JoBob. She should immediately go talk to the nearest military recruiter and enlist.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:58 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Walters wrote: "Schmidt you talk a good talk, but walk the walk, you flop."

    I'll bet that your college educated daughters would applaud you for telling Mr. Schmidt so solidly that he is a "flop."

    I'm wondering when they are going to confiscate your computer and cut off your Internet access to prevent you from further embarassing yourself, Mr. Walters.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 2:25 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    What walk would that be Eddie? The more you post, the more my respect for you withers.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 2:24 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    So, Eddie doesn't know that over 100 women have died in Iraq and Afghanistan, he doesn't know that women already routinely come under fire, he doesn't know that women have served as combat medics and corpsman for 20 years, etc, etc, etc...... and yet he is "in touch with the realities of today's military"?

    Brian, as usual, your post only serves to further discredit you and Eddie Walters.

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 1:45 pm on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    bobin you make it sound like a mother and father should be proud of their 20 year old daughter that was KIA in Sanddune land. Most people join up out of high school since there is nothing else for them to do or out of boredom, unless they have a scholarship to go to college, then forget sighing up. There`s no honor in being dead, I would rather have my daughters go to college and earn a diploma, go on to get an outstand job which they have done, and I can be even more proud because they are alive. Rather than coming back from being shot at, wounded and in need of VA help for the rest of her life. Look at the Vet`s comming back from the war missing arms, legs, and are blind. The suiside rate is alarming. Seems my posts gather flys like a dogs last nights dinner. So tell me more about what you know, rather than what think. Even when their enlistment is up, back to where they started, what to do, reenlist?

    Must disagree with the letter writter that believes a 120 woman cop can handle a 200 lb. drunk man that doesn`t want to follow directions or being hooked-up. Even a man will call for back up, to help put that female cop in the back of an ambulance.

    Schmidt you talk a good talk, but walk the walk, you flop.

    Most of everything that I read from other posts rag on me for being realistic and living what I wrote about. Thanks to the one person that saw it my way.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 11:12 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobin,

    The link you provided only goes to prove women have been killed in wars. Are you suggesting we lower the standards for men to qualify for combat roles so as not to make women feel less capable? Or are you just joking when you assert in your own little way we should continue to blurr the lines between what makes a male and a female so different?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 11:02 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    Which part of his post is "far out in left field," Mr. Docktor?

    The part about the number of women killed in Iraq and Afghanistant, or the part about their parents being proud of their daughters' military service?

    -Chuckle,

    You conveniently left out the fact that Mr. Schmidt would assert that Mr. Walters is out of touch with the realities of today's military. that is the part
    where Mr. Schmidt is "far out in left field". Maybe Mr. Schmidt knows a little more about Mr. Walters than I do. However, based on the information in this letter, how Mr. Schmidt could come to the conclusion Mr. Walters is out of touch I can only conclude Mr. Schmidt is doing nothing more than demagoging.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:44 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    Nevertheless, we’re not talking about police departments and fire departments – we’re talking about the United States Armed Forces. The missions of each are inherently different. Police aren’t directed to go out and kill people; just the opposite. Only if necessary are they permitted to use deadly force. Not so with the Army. And as far as fire departments are concerned, well . . .

    Men and women are different. Qualifications to graduate from Army basic training are different for men and women: men need to perform more sit-ups, pull-ups and they’re required to run farther and faster than women. But we’ve been over this material before; there really shouldn’t be a need to rehash it.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:23 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    Mr. Liebich, if the ban is lifted, then in order for things to actually be "equal" women should most certainly be required to register with selective service which would then subject them to the draft if that should ever be necessary. I would think they should be demanding as a right to register. In fact, what’s stopping them from going to the nearest Post Office and filling out the paperwork now?

    I only have to wonder how women who disagree with this whole matter might react to such a move.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:12 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    For your edification, Mr. Docktor:

    http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/lives.html

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:09 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    If Congress and the Supreme Court exempt women from selective service registration because of the combat rules and Panetta has lifted the combat rules why aren't women being required to register with the selective service?
    [sleeping]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:03 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Which part of his post is "far out in left field," Mr. Docktor?

    The part about the number of women killed in Iraq and Afghanistant, or the part about their parents being proud of their daughters' military service?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 8:40 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    I think it should be clear to anyone who is paying attention to Mr Goethel's post that he was talking about women and men as groups. Perhaps you should reread his post and clarify your remarks.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:30 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Jerome Wrote:


    How about the opposite - is it your contention that men have also always at least equaled their female counterparts in dangerous situations? No one has ever failed; or is it just men who have not been on par with women?

    -Exactly. [beam]

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:23 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Regarding Mr. Schmidt's post at 5:32 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013:

    As usual, he's as far out in left field he can possibly be.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:11 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Jerome,

    Regarding your post at 7:58PM, Feb 2:

    Thank you. My wife and I were talking about the very thing yesterday. Women should not be put in a position where they are more likely to be captured by the enemy. Not only would there be "propaganda value". They could be raped and tortured. It seems to me Schmidt and Co. would rather not talk about how certain roles should be left to men in the military because the fear ot being politically incorrect will look bad in the eyes of the womens rights groups. Just because a woman can perform a duty doesn't mean she should. It has nothing to do with my male ego. It's about being realistic. I work with a woman who used to be a police officer. She said the police dept knows there are limits to what women can do and they make sure men are always present in a situation where women might need backup. I'm sure the military takes this into consideration too.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:59 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    Mr. Goethel writes, "I don't think there has been an instance where they (women) have not equaled their male couterparts (sic) in dangerous situations."

    Surely you're kidding just to make your point? Out of all the fire/police departments in the country, you're suggesting that every woman has performed as well as every man? Common sense dictates that this simply cannot be true. Not one woman has failed?

    How about the opposite - is it your contention that men have also always at least equaled their female counterparts in dangerous situations? No one has ever failed; or is it just men who have not been on par with women?

     
  • Frederick Goethel posted at 6:50 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Frederick Goethel Posts: 50

    This whole discussion reminds me of when women were first attempting to enter police and fire service. All of the same arguments were used, but as history has shown, none of them have panned out. I was in the fire sevice for 25+ years and met women that could out perform every man on thier engine or ladder. They were strong, capable and very much ready for the job. The same is true of female police offficers. I don't think there has been an instance where they have not equaled their male couterparts in dangerous situations.

     
  • Doug Chaney posted at 6:29 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    advocate Posts: 502

    Mr. Walters, women are now given a chance to prove you very, very wrong in your statements that females are not as strong as menand not capable of doing the same job. So util that real official assessment is released from the armed forces in combat situations these are just nothing but chauvinist neocon rants. Have you by any chance researched the roles of females in law enforcement and firefighting? I think there are many females that have proved your weak argument nothing but a chauvinistic crock. I don't think you've ever seen a female of any kind on a real adrenalin rush that could't handle more than her share. Maybe you should research some of these success stories and appreciate the fact that these dedicated and capable females are just as capable as anyone in their chosen professions.

     
  • Doug Chaney posted at 6:17 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    advocate Posts: 502

    Brian, you refer to "most women" that dont have the capabilities to carry a 200 pound soldier from danger, but how about those females that do? Do you exclude them? I see most negative rants are from the neocons or obstructionists, the party of no, the Republican party. They've long since been accused of having chauvinistic attitudes toward any ethnic race, including females, except for their own Anglo culture and race.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:32 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Eddie is so far out of touch with the realities of today's military that, apparently, he does not even realize that dozens of women soldiers have already given their lives for their country on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Of course, you do not see these heroes parents demanding that the military repeal these new rules because, by and large, they are proud of their daughters, proud of their service and proud of their sacrifice.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:25 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    As for this idea that there is no way to know what women will do because they have not served in these roles yet, women have served in combat roles in Armies around the world for 20 years with none of the problems that Eddie and his lot quiver in fear over.

    Eddie keeps on insisting that he is well informed and he keeps on demonstrating that he is not.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:21 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    But if it is your son there in the body bag, that's OK? Clearly Eddie, you have never managed to father a child.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 5:16 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    In what country would anyone be permitted to take to the air multi-million dollar aircraft without first making certain they were qualified to do so? This sounds like one of those urban legends that has no basis in fact.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 1:52 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1338

    I once had a chance to lay some hit lines on a beautiful woman and I missed my chance, and someone else got her.

    Later, I learned that she was an A-10 pilot.

    With a name like "Blair," it was not obvious by her name that she was female, and she was allowed to pilot the A-10's for quite some time.

    In training, she was so good. In fact, that the commanding officer wanted to meet the new trainee who was doing so well in training, and it was not until then that the chain-of-command learned that she was a woman, and she was re-assigned.

    Yikes.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 1:09 am on Sun, Feb 3, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Female soldiers have been in combat units, despite regulations against it and a law requiring prior notice to Congress since March of 2004.
    [sleeping]

    How many of you are aware that both Congress and the Supreme Court have exempted women from selective service registration because of the combat rules? [lol]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:58 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    How many women are Navy Seals? Answer: "There are no female sailors assigned to SEAL combat units - though women can be assigned to EOD teams, they are prohibited by law from serving on SEAL teams due to the unique nature of the SEAL's assignments and training.

    "It's not necessarily that a woman couldn't do the job - it's the propaganda value to an enemy if she's captured, and SEAL's routinely go in harm's way a lot more than most sailors do." (http://tinyurl.com/a7uc4vd)

    First, is this valid? Second (and most important in my opinion), is the “propaganda value” statement important to the way wars are conducted; or should the rules of war be altered simply because women in the United States are going to be permitted to serve in forward units as actual combatants?

    This problem with captured women could cause many more problems than what most of us could ever fathom. Mothers, wives, sisters and daughters – POWs. How would we expect them to be treated with respect to their male counterparts? This MUST be considered not only for the sake of emotional considerations, but for the defense of our nation as well.

    All for the sake of “equality” and political correctness. Is it really worth it? I don’t think so.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 7:52 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    "Why would a woman want to put her life in danger just to prove she can, when your dead your done."

    Is your sexism really so deep that you can't see the ridiculous double standard you have? Why would ANY Person, man or woman put their life in danger just to prove they can? How about doing it for love of country? How about for a sense of protecting those around you? How about for the very same reasons MEN give to be on the front line?

    "I sure wouldn't want my daughter putting her life in jeopardy just to prove a point, I would never the less like to see a grandson or daughter rather than a flag draped coffin." So you would rather see a son put his life in jeopardy "just to prove a point"? You do know it take BOTH men and women to make a grandson for you right? Why do you only value those from your daughter?

    I said it on the other post on this subject that IF my daughter decides that serving on the front line is her calling then I will be just as proud of HER as if my boys make the same sacrifice. Then if she dies serving her country then I will be just as devastated as if it were one of my sons but proud she died doing what she felt called to do.

    This whole "just to prove a point" argument is so INSULTING to women who want to serve for the same reason their brothers are serving, the same reason their fathers served. YOU insult them and what ever their reason is for serving. Such a condescending attitude, Mr. Walters, that women are incapable of serving for any other reason but to prove a point. That may be the most offensive thing I have read concerning this whole point.

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 7:15 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    Eddie: Haven`t been called that in a long time, as a rule I am on a last name basis. So Paglia, there is no evidence that women are as strong as men and are perfectly capable of being as tough as men as they have not served in that capacity as of yet. Here`s my question to all mothers and fathers and the reason for my post. Why would a woman want to put her life in danger just to prove she can, when your dead your done. If and when a car drives up to your house and two uniformed officers get out, before they tell you, you will know why they are there. To see rows of coffins come off that C-130, knowing that one of them holds you daughter. Might that not give you a different prospective of women at war just to prove they can. I sure wouldn`t want my daughter putting her life in jepordy just to prove a point, I would never the less like to see a grandson or daughter rather than a flag draped coffin.

    On second thought, let all women take the mens place, you want it so bad, go for it. Then perhaps a 19 teen year girl will die from a bullet in the head, compliments of a al Qaeda sniper. And what ever you do, do not get captured, you daughter might end up like Daniel Pearl, as an al-Qadea terrorists removed his head from his body.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 6:06 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    Eddie. what is to understand? You don't like the idea of women being strong and are revolted by the thought of them being able to defend THEIR country as well as men. A lot has changed since your generation tried to relicate women to being barefoot and pregnant. Women today are STRONG, independent and many are perfectly capible of being as tough as men serving on the front lines. Country after country has proven this.

    How nice, you see women as ONLY having vaule being domesticated for the military, as stated in your letter. If you knew any strong women this attitude of yours that women are weak would have been corrected a long time ago.

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 4:58 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    Shcmidt: Unless you have served, you know nothing. I was in the Marine Corps 20 years ago, Corpsman are part of the Navy and are assighned to the Marine Corps, as a rule one or more Corpsman to a company. Strange though, I never saw a woman. The physical part for me in boot camp wasn`t all that hard, the mental part was the tough part being screamed at all the time, along with no sleep and called words that can`t be printed for starters. I understand all the harsh language has gone, Have any of you heroes ever fired a rifle, now think of it as someone firing back at you, trying to kill you. I would be willing to wager that everyone flapping their jaws doesn`t have a clue as to how the military works. Read my post again, standards have been lowered for woman, Shcmidt is laughing, so is al-Qaeda. Shcmidt what branch of the military do you serve in, the Girl Scouts along with Bobin.
    Schmidt, you turn my post around to suit your own needs, I never infered ER`s for woman and men, entirely a different situation. Though those monthly cramps might be of some bother when taking fire or a 5 mile forced march. I asked my friend who served 4 years in the Navy about women on board the USS Normandy, ain`t worth a darn, can`t print what he said, but you get the idea.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 3:41 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1338

    Ed,

    The central question to answer is whether or not any lives will be at stake, or whether a mission could be comprised because women are allowed into a combat role in the military.

    Your response which is based upon hormones flowing on a love boat isn't going to answer that question.

    In my opinion, if two service members are taking "free" grabs, or "bumping and grinding," as far as I'm concerned, the question to ask is whether they were following orders.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 3:37 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1338

    Ed,

    The question is not about modesty, or about the potential of having a love boat with hormones on it.

    Even if there is some bumping and grinding, which there will be, I still don't see the problem.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:56 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    A relative news article. Pay attention to the Canadian comments.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/02/16751945-how-the-us-military-can-become-a-band-of-brothers-and-sisters?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 2:24 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Again, Ed, women have served as corpsmen for 20 years.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:06 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    "Comes down to, can a 110 lb. woman do the job by carrying a 50 lb. pack, two canteens of water, a rifle, food for two days, extra bullets. Answer NO."

    Maybe in your world where women are weak creatures that shouls stay home. But I know a LOT of women, given the same training as men can MEET the same standard men meet for combat preparedness.

    110lbs? Really. Do you really think a woman who WANTS to be on the front line is going to weigh ONLY 110 lbs? Have you been watching America next top model to decide what women can do? Try looking at female triathletes and tell me THEY are weak. How about looking at any female athlete and tell me they are weak.

    A lot of MEN entering boot camp can't do a lot of what you want women to do off the street. You KEEP comparing men who have recieved training and conditioning to women who haven't.

    I'll say it again, if ANY woman can meet the SAME standard as men to be combat ready, then let them fight. NO ONE has yet to give a reason other than the American Machismo excuses why they should be banned.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 1:51 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028


    Through out ALL of history women have proven again and again that they are perfectly capible of being not only warriors but leaders of armies. Where would we be if those like Brian had their way and kept Joan of Arc from leading the French?

    If you doubt their contributions then look up Female warriors through history.

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 1:39 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 548

    OK, where to start. Here`s to all your folks that have your heads someplace other that where it should be. This is straight scoop, having had dinner with someone that just got out of the Navy, I ask if the day will ever come when the standards will be lowered to allow women into the service. He told me, they already have. Now you folks that need an adjustment and don`t know anything, since you don`t know, don`t attempt a come back on my post. I knew I would get some feed back, but not so much from people that are not aware of whats going on in the service today. Take it from someone that has been there and saw that, and you haven`t. A woman doesn`t need to do a pull-up, can take twice as long to run a mile. Push-up`s are not required.

    Bobins asks if I have had my prostate inspected as of late. Of course I have and by a female nurse, but then no one was shooting at me. As a rule nurses work at a field unit and are concered angle of mercy, male corpsman take care of a shooting situation. If a woman becomes pregnant while aboard ship, she is allowed to have her baby, and then discharged from the Navy. Comes down to, can a 110 lb. woman do the job by carrying a 50 lb. pack, two canteens of water, a rifle, food for two days, extra bullets. Answer NO. So you nit-pickers, tell me something you think you know about.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 1:38 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    Brian, how wuld you know anything about he physical capibilities of women?

    Can't drag a 200lb man? Really, my wife with NO physical training other than running 1/2 marathons has routinely dragged me off the kids when we (the kids and I) were play wrestling. Can't imagine what she could do after a few months of boot camp. She has also had to lift HER 700lb motorcycle from a leaning position a couple of times (when she was just learning to ride).

    Don't tell me women are weak, all that tells me is YOU don't want them to be strong.

    I'll even grant you a "majority" of women don't want to be on the front lines in combat. Even if the number is as low as 20%. WHY can't those 20% be on the front line IF they meet the physical requirements for combat troops?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 1:32 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    There's nothing like brave women to bring forth an eruption of BS from cowardly men.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 1:18 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Where do you get your information from Brian? Can you please sight the survey that you are referring to? You say "a majority", what is the actual percentage? What was the margin of polling error in the study? When was the survey taken?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 1:14 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Women have been serving as corpsman and medics for 20 years Brian. As usual, you are just plain old wrong.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:14 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Never say never, Brian:

    http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/issues/JanFeb08/fem_med_lineunit.html

    http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20130129/NEWS03/701299857

    And I'm guessing that you have never been in the military yourself and cannot speak from first hand experience.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 1:02 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    http://www.grossmont.net/musgrave2/Grammar%20Hospital/new%20pages/opponent.example.htm

    A clip:

    The list of arguments against women in combat is a long one, but the most debated is the issue of physical ability. Those who oppose women in combat claim that their physical attributes are lacking the strength and stamina to perform the job proficiently; they also view women’s ability to become pregnant as a logistical and financial burden. (Burrelli 1)

    Military readiness is often linked to the overall effectiveness of an army during a war. The ability for an army to be summoned and deployed is believed to be a show of its strength. Many tacticians feel that the mere readiness of an army can deter an enemy from considering beginning a conflict. Non-supporters of females in combat feel military women becoming pregnant when apart of an active unit as a major hamper to the readiness of an army.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 12:51 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Kevin wrote,


    Through 103 comments on the other thread and now this, absurd arguement I have not seen one arguement againast why a physically capible woman should be barred from defending her country on the frontlines. The only arguements consist of American Male Machismo that sees women as fragile, weak and needing protection.

    -I don't know where you get your information Kevin .But a good majority of the women in the military do not want ot be on the frontlines BECAUSE they are samrt enough to realize they aren't capable of carrying a 200 plus pound man to safety. And even with the some that can they can't move nearly as fast as a man. It has nothing to do with the male ego.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 12:45 pm on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Hmm,

    We're talking the frontlines in the trenches taking fire from the enemy where there are instances where soldiers must put their lives on the line for other soldiers. Most women do not have the muscle mass to carry a 200 plus pound man who is injured to safety. It all comes down to everything within reason. There has never been nurses on the immediate frontlines. Steve and Joanne's perception of what the letter is trying to say is so full of flaws.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 11:45 am on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    This letter is so full of flaws that it takes a while for one to appreciate them all in their full glory. I just showed it to my uncle (USMC) and he got a good laugh, thinking about the hundreds of thousands of wounded (male) vets who have been cared for by female nurses over the last 75 years.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 11:40 am on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    Joanne, your comment about the Love Boats had me laughing out loud.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:35 am on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Two comments:

    1. I'll bet that aircraft carriers could be called "the love boat" way before women were assigned to them.

    2. Anyone who has been a patient in a hospital, especially in the maternity ward, has lost all sense of modesty - not to mention locker rooms. (Comically, years ago my son quit going to a particular athletic club here in Lodi due to the propensity of elderly males using the hot tub and walking around in the all-together without thought of who would see them)

    Even so, if one's life was on the line, who in their right mind would be even THINKING of modesty?

    Had your prostate examined lately, Mr. Walters? Lucky that Lodi has at least one male and one female urologist to accomodate the sexes. Otherwise, with Mr. Walters' thinking, there would be a whole lot of males dying of prostate cancer in this town due to the "modesty" factor.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 10:14 am on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2479

    So, Ed, if modesty is our foremost concern, shouldn't our first step be to segregate civilian Emergency Rooms into gender specific "His" and "Hers" ERs?

    Really, there are a lot of moronic arguments against this policy being tossed about out there, but this one takes the cake.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 9:40 am on Sat, Feb 2, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2028

    Just when I thought I had heard all the stupid arguements on the issue already. Really, Modesty when injuried? Does Mr Walters know that women are injured every day and male parametics deal with those injuries?

    At least Mr Walters recoqnizes that women can continue their 1960's role of being domenstic for the military.

    Through 103 comments on the other thread and now this, absurd arguement I have not seen one arguement againast why a physically capible woman should be barred from defending her country on the frontlines. The only arguements consist of American Male Machismo that sees women as fragile, weak and needing protection.


     

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