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Who are the Occupy protesters and what is their origin?

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Posted: Saturday, November 5, 2011 12:00 am | Updated: 6:15 am, Sat Nov 5, 2011.

Occupy, a group whose origin I do not know, has come to my attention through casual conversation, especially as a result of news media coverage. In spite of their effort, it appears to me that they are protesting in general, without offering a plausible remedy and without specific identification of the problem.

If this were a legitimate movement, I question the title Occupy. In my opinion, this word represents a sense of conflict, which could only serve to divide opinions and people in America. I cannot support anything that is not peaceful, and I refuse to believe that any threat of conflict could bring about a peaceful solution.

By my opinion, and this is just a result of my opinion, I suspect the possibility that these might be professional protesters, so I ignore them. I ask, "What is the origin of these people, and how did they organize? What is their purpose? How did they immediately receive priority news media coverage? Why is a root cause not specifically identified?" (The Occupy appearance in Tokyo suggests that upper management has crossed language and cultural barriers.)

I refuse to believe that they are a random set of people who suddenly came together by a spontaneous but unknown force, which only affected specific people who came into the news.

I remind people that the Declaration of Independence is one of the most important documents of history, and the U.S. Constitution is a good one, too. I recommend a solution which uses these documents.

Daniel Hutchins

Acampo

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159 comments:

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:02 pm on Thu, Nov 24, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Kitty (klee) stated...Patty... Well, my words aren't simply pulled out of my but!! LOL!

    Of course not... there never is room for words there as your head fills the space snugly.

    I addressed Klee as Kitty since she thinks it is appropriate to address Pat as Patty.Im just attempting to play Klee's name game. What are the rules anyway?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 10:15 am on Thu, Nov 24, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    kl: Try this exercise on for size. Put you hand in front of your face at about a foot's length and look at it...what do you see? Now open your fingers and tell me what you see.

    OR: Put your hand in front of your face and describe what you see about your hand (eg; veins, skin, finger nails)...now turn your hand around...that is perspective.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:42 pm on Wed, Nov 23, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Patrick wrote, "...what you write here ms l., comes from your mind and your thoughts...lets argue about reality and what it is."

    Well, my words aren't simply pulled out of my but!! LOL!

    Patty... My perception is my reality, just as your delusions are your reality.


     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:31 pm on Wed, Nov 23, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    "looks like you hit another "nurse" K Lee..."

    That was funny, Andrew! LOL!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 10:40 am on Wed, Nov 23, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    Okay...I declare this thread too thin to climb on again...let's all move on to something else of interest. Maybe the use of jalepenos on cheeseburgers...

    Delusions are functions of the mind...writing is a function of the mind...just as thought is...if you do not have thought you cannot have delusions...your delusion may be confusing to you but look at it closer...all phobias are delusions...something that is imagined and not real...what you write here ms l., comes from your mind and your thoughts...lets argue about reality and what it is.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:15 am on Wed, Nov 23, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    looks like you hit another "nurse" K Lee...

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 11:48 pm on Tue, Nov 22, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "I cannot imagine anything less important that being concerned what
    opinion you have about me..."

    Yet here you are... concerned.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:52 pm on Tue, Nov 22, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Klee stated... I too would never refer to you as brilliant in any way.

    of course Klee... I cannot imagine anything less important that being concerned what
    opinion you have about me... well... let me take that back... you would come second to Andrew.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:36 pm on Tue, Nov 22, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Patrick wrote, "You're in my delusions..."

    Okay... now that's creepy!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:14 am on Tue, Nov 22, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    ms l: I TOLD DB that you were just a smartass...like me!! He didn't believe me! Good post...I feel vindicated in my delusions. Wait!! You're in my delusions...does that make you delusional, a delusionist, a delusioner or just on the same wave length as I??

    Einstein, Oppenheimer and Kaku would be proud!!! When the box is full...look elsewhere for your answers...or just empty the box and start over.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 7:45 pm on Mon, Nov 21, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Pat Maple wrote, "ms k l: My pay stub from the State institute in Napa has the initials KL in the patient column. No DBs. Sorry, but your humor is a bit askew on this one. I like crazy people...they don't often lie...we speak the same language. Did you know they thought Einstein and Oppenheimer were crazy...Michio Kaku...do you know what a neutrino is? Fascinating study."

    Patty: You may think my "humor is a bit askew", but it's probably just over your head. Despite what you believe... You're not crazy smart. I know this may come as a shock to you since the folks at your "institute" made you feel like a smarty pants, but you must accept the truth in the real world now. Your "crazy people" (friends) at the "institute" did not lie to you at all... they were just as delusional as you. Peas in a pod.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:41 pm on Mon, Nov 21, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    ms k l: My pay stub from the State institute in Napa has the initials KL in the patient column. No DBs. Sorry, but your humor is a bit askew on this one. I like crazy people...they don't often lie...we speak the same language. Did you know they thought Einstein and Oppenheimer were crazy...Michio Kaku...do you know what a neutrino is? Fascinating study.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:53 pm on Mon, Nov 21, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "I would never seriously refer to myself as brilliant in any way... not me!"

    I too would never refer to you as brilliant in any way.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:51 pm on Mon, Nov 21, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Pat Maple wrote, "mr l: Being able to understand an insane person pays well."

    I see why you get along so well with Darrell.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 11:26 am on Mon, Nov 21, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    mr l: Being able to understand an insane person pays well. Leading them in the right direction pays little. DB: Finished mine in 2006 when I got off the GHS Board.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:34 pm on Sun, Nov 20, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    Mr. Maple said, "Incoherent babbling is my specialty..." We know.

    Darrell said, "I completed my internship at a mental state hospital in 1978."

    Darrell, your internship, if it actually existed was at a state mental hospital. A "mental state" is your current condition.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:11 pm on Sun, Nov 20, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Pat stated...ms l: Within the confines of an insane asylum...many of its occupants have brilliant conversations and write seriously and inspired. You should visit one...or...?

    Pat... so true... I completed my internship at a mental state hospital in 1978. There I had many interesting conversations with patients. Until you brought up this topic, I had forgotten. Now that I relfect, it is amazing how similar those conversations were to what Klee posts. I think Klee has lived an interesting unique life.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 6:12 pm on Sun, Nov 20, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Pat wrote, "Within the confines of an insane asylum...many of its occupants have brilliant conversations and write seriously and inspired."

    Do tell, Pat. Sounds like you are very happy in your asylum... uh... home.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:04 pm on Sun, Nov 20, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    ms l: Within the confines of an insane asylum...many of its occupants have brilliant conversations and write seriously and inspired. You should visit one...or...?

    Oh yeah...ms l...any good teacher will tell you that there are no dumb questions...the work needed to find the answer may be challenging...but most of the time it is worth the journey...try taking the other Y in the road next time.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:11 pm on Sun, Nov 20, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Klee stated ...You're actually referring to you and Pat as having "brilliant" dialogue.
    Oh my! LOL!

    If I can make you laugh Klee, it is evidence that I have a sense of humor... I would never seriously refer to myself as brilliant in any way... not me!

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 2:13 pm on Sun, Nov 20, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "...brilliant dialogue seems like babbling..."

    You're actually referring to you and Pat as having "brilliant" dialogue.
    Oh my! LOL!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:26 pm on Sat, Nov 19, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    Mr Liebich: We AGREE on something!!! Hallelujah!!! The OW idiots are idiots...KFBK? I would rather hear what you have to say. Incoherent babbling is my specialty...get a sense of humor and read my posts carefully.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:47 pm on Fri, Nov 18, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Andrew stated... As the incoherent babbling of Darrell and Patrick continues

    You sound so frustrated Andrew... relax and take a deep breath... exhale...
    when you become as agitated as yourself, brilliant dialogue seems like babbling...

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 6:50 pm on Fri, Nov 18, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    As the incoherent babbling of Darrell and Patrick continues I find the need to remind everyone that Daniel's letter was about the Occupy protesters.

    Ed Crane of KFBK did a great job today explaining these Occupy idiots...

    http://www.kfbk.com/pages/cranescorner.html

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:05 pm on Fri, Nov 18, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    In your case ms lee...stainable common sense,

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:38 pm on Fri, Nov 18, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Klee stated...Looks like I am making you uncomfortable.

    No ... not at all... but thank you for your concern!

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:27 pm on Thu, Nov 17, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Pat Maple wrote, "Ego? I call it sustainable common sense."

    Well, thank you.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:26 pm on Thu, Nov 17, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "How K Lee could think she hit a nurse is pure fantasy."

    I have never hit a nurse. Freudian slip there, Darrell?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:24 pm on Thu, Nov 17, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "If not fantasy... very wishful thinking as I think she is thrilled if she perceives she might have succeeded in making someone uncomfortable... "

    Looks like I am making you uncomfortable.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:24 pm on Thu, Nov 17, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    Perception is 9 tenths of the law with these people. I just beg to differ.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:16 am on Thu, Nov 17, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    If not fantasy... very wishful thinking as I think she is thrilled if she perceives she might have succeeded in making someone uncomfortable...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:15 am on Thu, Nov 17, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    K Lee stated...LOL! It looks like I hit a nerve with you, Patrick Maple.

    I guess K Lee and Andrew have something in common.. They both walk hand in hand
    in Wonderland.. with Alice.

    How K Lee could think she hit a nurse is pure fantasy.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 7:00 am on Thu, Nov 17, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    mss k and l: Why don't you two corroborate and fill this paper with you knowledge and expertise...maybe you can teach us old coots a thing or two...I await your wonderment.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:58 am on Thu, Nov 17, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    ms l: Fa getta bout it!!! Remember people like me have no nerves. Take a nap...Rip Van will enjoy your company. Ego? I call it sustainable common sense. Grow up.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:21 pm on Wed, Nov 16, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    LOL! It looks like I hit a nerve with you, Patrick Maple. You've got way too much ego there pal. How's your paranoia this evening?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:55 pm on Wed, Nov 16, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    ms lee: Laughing is good for the soul...laughing at ones self is good for the mind...laughing at others voids laughing at ones self because the ego gets involved.
    Laugh at that.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 5:58 pm on Tue, Nov 15, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Mark:
    daniel does seem to carry it to extremes. Each code/regulation/law/ordinance/etc. has it's own definition for what ever terms that might be contained therein. This varies by municipality, city, county, state. Using black's law dictionary might be fine in legal matters (if that is what protocol demands), but elsewhere might be inappropriate.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:24 pm on Tue, Nov 15, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "Pat... I cannot speak for others of course, but I always smile after reading what you have to say and the way in which you say it..."

    Ya, me too! LOL!

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 7:49 am on Tue, Nov 15, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Adams I do agree that some documents do have explanations of terms used within a document concerning how such a term is to be interpreted as it pertains to this particular document. However, Mr. Hutchin's claim that there is a separate document that contains definitions of every word in a document is still rediculous. If that were the case, the document that contained the definitions of every word in a document would require another document to define every word of the definitions document......And so on, and so on.... Most often, a word or term, means what the word or term means, and there is no need for any additional clarification of the word or term.

    As you can see from your examples, not every word is clarified. All of the words in a document, or its terms clarification section can be found in a standard dictionary. Also, not all terms need to be documented as to their meaning and stardard common sense prevails. As Mr. Hutchin's has pointed out, Department of The Treasury doesn't specifically refer to the United States, but most people don't need clarification to realize that the form is from the US Government and that the reference would be to the United States Department of The Treasury. This would be an example of context. All those words or terms not clarified, such as SHALL, WILL, THE, AND, PEOPLE, ECT, are not defined or clarified and therefore the valid and accepted definition, is the definition of the word found in a common dictionary.

    If this principle was not used as common sense, no group of words would ever have any meaning. The group of words would only be unknown markings on a piece of paper since nobody would ever be able to figure out what these markings are actually mean or communicate.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:09 pm on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    A few days ago, I received an e-mail, of a protester who was defecating upon a burning American flag.

    He was Bare A, squatting, and a dozen protesters looked on.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:07 pm on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mike Adams, thank you.

    I am glad you brought "firearms" into this.

    Through word-smithing, the United States, and the State of California can word-smith your human rights away from you, and they can create ambiguous situations where the courts can rule against you somehow.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:05 pm on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    The below statement is important because if we look up at the top of the IRS Form 1040, it states that IRS is "Department of the Treasury."

    Here is a classic example of a term that is not defined.

    The IRS is telling the truth, that it is the "Department of the Treasury" ; however, I ask the question, "Treasury of what? Alcoholics Anonymous?"

    If anyone wants to go look, the term "Department of the Treasury" is defined in the United States code using other terms that are not defined. 31 U.S.C. § 301.

    The definition uses other undefined terms,

    “United States Government” (not defined)

    “seat of the Government,” (this looks like a chair that I sit on.)

    “executive department" (at best, this would be included under the president, but without capitalization, it is not the name of any department that is recognized by Congress; it is just a common noun thing.)

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:54 pm on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mike Adams, thank you. Amen.

    Looking through my records, looking for a good post on the empowerment of the IRS, I first found the following little gem which I caused to be served against the IRS:

    IRS is not an “agency” as that term is legally defined in the Freedom of Information Act or in the Administrative Procedures Act.

    (Here, we see that the term "agency" requires definition. It is not an agency of the federal government. IRS did not respond. In legalese, this means that they agree.)


     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:39 pm on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Mark, actually daniel is correct on much of this word meaning business. Key terms in many codes and other legal documents need to be defined. As an example, if you are familiar with firearms, specifically "assult"weapons, one of the definitions that make an assult rifle not an assult rifle is a magazine that requires a "tool" to remove the magazine. The "tool" specifically defined is a "bullet tip". This you just press in on the recessed mag release, and the magazine falls out. You could use a key or a screwdriver, but the definition of a "bullet tip" makes it something something someone would have on their person.

    Also, until the last 20 years or so, the California Penal Code did not have a definition of "rape" as it pertained ot male victims. Prior to the change that included both genders (and you can look that up), I supposed the perpetrator of rape against a male would be charged with battery? Assult? Are you aware that you can be charged with burglary if you walk into Target and shoplift? So a misdemeanor becomes a felony. That's because the definition of "burglary" is entering a house or place of business (there are others included) with the intention to commit a crime.

    In Lodi, several years ago, a fleeing man entered his apartment, locked the door and attempted to cut a hole into the adjoining apartment with a knife. He was caught before his diabolical plan could be finished, but since the knife blade made it through the other wall, he was also charged with burglary.

    Look through the Penal Code. In almost every section they have definitions. They are usually at the beginning of a section.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:24 am on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Pat... I cannot speak for others of course, but I always smile after reading what you have to say and the way in which you say it...

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:48 am on Mon, Nov 14, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    Hey!!! I made a funny and no one noticed...just like we should the OW numbnuts!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:05 pm on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Trovinger stated...I think I understand Mr. Hutchin's problem.....but I had no clue that you also can't figure out the proper definition for a word when it is used in context with other words. Do you need a special dictionary like Mr. Hutchins to understand written language usage?

    LOL... I was playing with you Mr Trovinger. You often misunderstand the intent of online posts and vocabulary. I found your comments about the word “plants” comical and decided to make light of what you posted.. A reasonable person would not take what you said seriously. Your posts demonstrate an obvious superiority complex and arrogance. You put others down as if you are somehow better. You state you were giving context. I disagree... you were attempting to diminish the stature of a human being. I might disagree with Daniel and think he presents his thoughts in an unusual unconventional way, but I appreciate his participation as I do most people who take the time to contribute.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 5:53 pm on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Baumbach now you are acting as rediculous as Mr. Hutchins. I was giving one example of context. Even you should be smart enough to know that if the word plant was in a sentence that include information about depth you would automatically understand that the definition would be, "To plant or bury" and not the definiton of plant that meant vegetation.

    You say, "You never know what the word “plant” means on a landscaping contract... obviously." Obviouisly I would know because I would be smart enough to see the context of the word's usage in the sentence. What would be your problem understanding the context of a simple word such as this? If the contract said that each plant would be planted 12 inches deep and 10 inches apart, how hard is it to understand that the first use of the word plant referred to the vegetation and the second use of the variant of the word plant would mean placement?

    I think I understand Mr. Hutchin's problem.....but I had no clue that you also can't figure out the proper definition for a word when it is used in context with other words. Do you need a special dictionary like Mr. Hutchins to understand written language usage?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 1:05 pm on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    Mr. Adams,

    The only person you are making a fool of with your continuous incoherent babbling is yourself.

    Meanwhile, the Occupy protests continue...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:26 pm on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Trovinger stated...It is obvious that when someone is reading a landscaping document, that the word plant means the green thing sticking up from the ground and not a place where products are manufactured.

    Obvious is in the eye of the beholder... If I were reading a landscape document, I would not “assume”that the word plant meant anything. It could mean something that is growing and alive... or it could mean how far down something was buried as in... He was told to plant it 12 inches deep. … or it could be referring to the location the landscape was to be completed... such as … The man made plans to perform landscaping at the plant (factory). You never know what the word “plant” means on a landscaping contract... obviously.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:23 pm on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    Much adoooooooooodoo about nothing...one must have something to protest to be considered protesting...if you cannot articulate your beef...you have none!

    I hesitate to call these people anything more than a human...I watched this same garbage being thrown around and set on fire during the Viet Nam era. We laid off and look where it got us...NO MAS!

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 11:05 am on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Getting to Androu...... You're a class act by the way in referring to me as "retarded". Way to go.... insulting those who have no control over their conditions and position in life. Not me, just all those kids, who through no fault of their own, have learning and developmental disabilities. Your mother is probably very proud of you.

    You seem overly eager to use the words that in the past have been used to classify those with less than normal mental abilities...."moron"..."idiot"...these in the past have been used to classify the mentally retarded. I'm not sure, but I would guess you've called other "mongoloid idiots" as an insult, not knowing the etiology of the term. Classically, it refers to someone with Down's Syndrome, or by professionals as "triploidy" or "triple 21". I'm sure the parents and families with children (or adults for that matter) really appreciate you lack of class and dignity.

    I've come across thousands of mutts like you over the years (yes, I prefer to use animal references, but I'm sure ASPCA wouldn't mind in your case..In fact, I've even corresponded with the national office and sent them some examples of some of your "posts". They seemed quite happy that I would engage you 1 on 1 and verbally cut you low) always the yuk yuk making fun at someone's expense, be it race, physical ability, gender, religious affiliation, thinking I'll get the joke when all it does is reinforce the inability of the speaker (YOU) to have at least some small amount of manners and up bringing, neither of which you have.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you...please continue to post or stick or whatever you were talking about doing with my posts. Perhaps someone in your herd will realize I'm am making a fool of you or correcting you ignorance with every word I type. You can all sit around your sterno stove heating your hot dogs discussing TWA 800 or my favorite, vapor trails. Must be quite a group. All so knowing in all manners that the public does not understand or doesn't care. We don't care because people like you think everything is a plot. You go to your phony NORAD/Library of Congress sites, but usually you're too lazy to do that so you just print out what some other mutt has written without bothering to check the facts.

    You are so, so sad. You choose to live in a world unlike the real, where everyone in it is out to get you, not because you're a human, but because they want to get you specifically. What these imaginary people want from you is known only to you and your mystery sharing brothers. Your attempts to warn normal people just puts you further and further into that box.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 10:29 am on Sun, Nov 13, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Hutchins you state, "In order to understand a legal document, one must read the list of definition of terms used."

    Sorry, but all that is necessary for anyone to read a legal document, or any other document, is an education and knowledge of vocabulary. When someone doesn't understand a word in the document, they refer to any standard dictionary to find the meaning of a word.

    No wonder you have such a hard time communicating since you apparently spend all of your time looking up every word to find every meaning of the word before you read or write the word. Context is something that a person also needs to have been educated about. It is obvious that when someone is reading a landscaping document, that the word plant means the green thing sticking up from the ground and not a place where products are manufactured. You however can't understand context and definitions. Therefore when someone tells you that there is a plant in their garden, you would probably call them a liar since you don't see any buildings or a smoke stack.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:15 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    In order to understand a legal document, one must read the list of definition of terms used.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:14 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Goofing around:

    given that currency carries commercial energy, where does the current flow? Between two banks.

    A baby is born through a (vaginal) waterway, into berthing.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:12 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mark, You are also wrong, very wrong wrong wrong.

    "Most documents are not written in some sort of special encripted code that would require a special dictionary to break the code."

    Terms by the IRS defy Webster's Dictionary, and indeed they are defined in the US Code. I'd tell you where they are, but you don't look up any of my references anyway.

    IRS: "wages," "trade or profession," "income," "taxpayer"

    US Criminal code (Title 18): "vessel"
    Other US Codes: "state" "United States" "US person"

    The term "state" does not include California.

    California: "Driver" "Vehicle"

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:04 pm on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mark, I refuse to call people names, but I ask who is the dolt? You are way out in the cosmos.

    You always have expressed your lack of knowledge in writing.

    Same as you, I said that the law dictionary defines the terms used.

    Duh. ( I will refer to you level of intelligence, but in your case, lack thereof. )

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:45 am on Sat, Nov 12, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    Mr. Adams, Why must you continue to trumpet your own stupidity and deny your own common sense?

    Although I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion, claiming that the Library of Congress and NORAD websites are conspiracy theory websites is utterly idiotic. Supporting your contentions with statements such as, "Androu, you've made your bed, now sleep in it and eat the cake you just finished baking."simply defy logic and do absolutely nothing to bolster your continuous mentally deficient contentions. In fact, your comments as well as your minion Darrell's have been so idiotic the Newsroom created a "Wall of Stupidity" and actually posts them for all to read.

    P.S. My AdSense account appreciates your continued referrals.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:08 pm on Fri, Nov 11, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Trovinger... thank you for your intent.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 3:39 pm on Fri, Nov 11, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Hutchins you really are a dolt. Every word in every document ever written has a definition. Nobody has ever written any special dictionary pertaining to the words specifically used in any specific document. Most documents are not written in some sort of special encripted code that would require a special dictionary to break the code.

    Dictionaries are published by many different publishers but have the same definitions, for the same words, in every dictionary. If every document had to have a special dictionary to discribe the special meaning of every word in a document, there would have to be as many dictionaries as there are documents. A normal person realizes that a standard dictionary give the acedemically approved definition or definitions for a word. If a word is in a document, a law dictionary would not state that the definition of the word is different from the definition found in a standard dictionary.

    Man what planet are you living on? You obviously don't live on this one.

    Sorry Mr. Baumbach, I'm sure that you wanted to address this but......I just couldn't help myself.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:34 pm on Fri, Nov 11, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Daniel stated...Darrell: Quite frequently, you have been disconnected.


    Hummm... I am concerned. How did Daniel know I had a phone that was disconnected... I paid my bill... yet...it was cut off. I think I better listen more closely to what Daniel has to say... this is spooky.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 3:26 pm on Fri, Nov 11, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Androu says:" blah blah blah blah...

    Androu, you've made your bed, now sleep in it and eat the cake you just finished baking. No one takes you seriously. No one. Go back to your wakesheep web site and talk about vapor trails some more. They are funnier than your 9-11 thoughts.

    Blah, blah, blah

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 12:16 pm on Fri, Nov 11, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Darrell: Quite frequently, you have been disconnected.

    In law, there must be a dictionary. Otherwise, the words would have no meaning, and neither would the document.

    The basis for words used in a lawful document such as the constitution or any other treaty is that a dictionary must be agreed upon as a definition for words and terms used. Otherwise, every word in the document would require a definition.


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:23 am on Fri, Nov 11, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Interesting that someone would think a library or book would have an opinion. I think that people have opinions about what books and libraries hold... but...

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:46 am on Fri, Nov 11, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    It's good that we're laughing.

    The point is that you preferred the opinion of the library of congress over a law dictionary.

    Probably the library of congress resource that you looked at was for public tourism.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:32 pm on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    lol... neither does Mike...

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:22 pm on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Andrew: I am not going to debate anybody. I gave you the definition of "constitution" or "to constitute." I care not what the Library of congress says about it.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:58 pm on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    Anyone who claims that the Library of Congress and NORAD websites are conspiracy theory websites is far beyond idiotic. Just my opinion.

    I do thank-you though Darrell. You actually answered a question.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:34 pm on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403


    Andrew stated...Darrell, Does that or anytrhing else Mike wrote not sound ”idiotic” to you?


    Actually, many things sound idiotic to me that many people say, including many statements from you. If fact, I have read some of my own posts that in reflection, sounded idiotic. My point is that people's intelligence should be out of bounds and a good faith effort should be made to understand the intent of the post as opposed to the quality of articulation or spelling. Just my opinion.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 3:27 pm on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    "Now you can use your phony library of congress site and you can use your phony norad site." -Mike Adams

    Darrell, Does that or anytrhing else Mike wrote not sound ”idiotic” to you?

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 2:55 pm on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    I don't think I was making a suggestion. It was similar to the hastily thrown together "NORAD" site you sent me. Your skull must be thicker than the granite in the mountain above NORAD. You do know that it is in/under a mountain? You apparently also don't know that it doesn't operate 24 hours a day any more, nor has for years. Throw in, that the radar antennas point out from the US ( and those to the north are actually in Canada, sight of your big conspiracy theory meeting you were harping on). So what braniac, they send some A1C up north to turn the antenna around? And they are no better equipped to identify and track civilian aircraft within the contiguous 48 then the FAA, in fact, they are less capable and that's why THEY AREN'T PART of the plan to scramble and intercept wayward commercial or private airplanes.

    Now you can use your phony library of congress site and you can use your phony norad site and you can use all the phony sites you have bookmarked. None of that gets you any credibility. You have exhausted any credibility you have had in the past (and that wasn't much). You've become danielian in your attitudes (and he doesn't even agree with you, and he's nuts) and your demeanor.

    Like I suggested earlier. Get some sandwich boards and stand along Turner and Ham (I assume you know where Turner and Ham are and are not looking it up on google Earth) and yell at passing cars. That is the level you are at. The rest of us will gladly (and preferably) go on without your interference.

    Come back when you have something important to say that doesn't start with "moron" or "idiot", or circular reasoning etc.(did you go to a seminar where they taught you big words and point out common debate tactics (not like you'd recognize any of them)).
    GGgggrrrrrr.... you so funny androu!

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:20 am on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    The link you were provided sent you to the Library of Congress's website. Are you actually suggesting that the Library of Congess's website is a conspiracy theory website?

    http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/articles.html

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 10:05 am on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Your link goes to another conspiracy theory website.

    With you there is no topic to debate. You are only interested in personal attacks. Ad homi..whatever and other wise. I did go to your wakesheep website. Very funny.
    Showing a jet plane on a water induced take off and you call it vapor trails. You guys never quit.

    You so funny!!!!

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:27 am on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    Unbelievable! Our own Library of Congress says, "The Continental Congress adopted the Articles of Confederation, the first constitution of the United States" but some are still incapable of accepting this fact. Daniel, perhaps you could contact the Library of Congress and debate the issue with them.

    Of course Darrell doesn't find Mike's posts to be idiotic or lacking any class. Darrell probably perceives them as "appropriate participation" If not Darrell, what is appropriate participation? Shouldn't appropriate participation involve discussing the actual topic of the thread?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:43 am on Thu, Nov 10, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Andrew stated...If it is your intention to sound more idiotic with each post you are succeeding.

    Andrew, may I ask... Could it be you are actually assessing your own abilities and projecting it out to others? Each post you contribute diminishes the respect people have of you as you demonstrate your inability to participate appropriately.
    If someone says something you perceive as”idiotic” , there is no class in calling that person an idiot.


     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:58 pm on Wed, Nov 9, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Andrew,

    Collateral? The people?

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:55 pm on Wed, Nov 9, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Andrew,

    I disagree. I believe that the Articles of Confederation were not a "constitution," by the definition of the word.

    The 13 separate confederacies did not take responsibility for the debt which had been incurred, and if they didn't adopt some form of a treaty with their creditors, I think it would have left the creditors with no further alternative but foreclosure upon the collateral, if the confederate states would not separately make loan payments.

    If you look under Black's Law Dictionary, you would find that the term "constitution" means that the undersigned parties take responsibility for a debt. Accordingly, one of the purposes of the constitution as a treaty is stated under Article 6. That is, under the constitution, the 13 states agreed with their creditors that they would take responsibility for the debt.

    Additionally, since the united States of America now assumed responsibility for the debt, of course it could also wage war under its flag.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:23 pm on Wed, Nov 9, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    Mike,
    I simply provided you a link to the Library of Congress after you stated incorrectly that the "The Articles of Confederation are not a constitution" Instead of acknowledging your error we are treated to another retarded rant. Really? Are you ever going to actually discuss the thread topic? If it is your intention to sound more idiotic with each post you are succeeding.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:49 pm on Wed, Nov 9, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Poor Androu.....still with the ad homina..whatever he calls them. So sad and angry all the time. It must be difficult having to read what myth huggers and sofa king idiots and morons all believe. You are a real mench, believe me. I don't know where you get the strength. I mean doing the internet equivalent of standing on a sidewalk screaming at passing cars about how clouds have you under surveilence. And then there's the vapor trails, and TWA 800, the plot to kill JFK. You have so much to scream at so many myth huggers and sofa king idiots who can't spell. You should take some time for yourself. Maybe a spa treatment or a massage. Anything to get you away from your corner for an hour or two would do you good.

    Might I suggest a trip to your local library? There are many books there with content I'm sure you object to, especially the history section. Many, many, many untruths. And all the shepeople just believing what ever they read in their. Can you imagine? You might have to convince them why your paranoid ramblings are the real story, but that should be easy. Go down to Harbor Freight and buy one of their bullhorns. Get the big one because it's real loud and has a microphone you can clip on your brown shirt. I think it plays music to. Like Little Spanish Flea I think.

    You might want to get a box or chair to stand on because You Tube tells us that elevating yourself above your audience increases your legitimacy (spelt' it right eh?).
    Bring a couple of different heights to see what works best for you.

    I think you're probably at the point where you could get away with a sandwich board. I think I've seen daniel wearing one or a couple, he has different themed boards for what ever the occasion. Maybe a couple of pictures of all that nanothermite and all the things wrong with the nist report you rag about would be good for a cool November evening. If you're in a more playful mood, try your global warming boards. If you wrap yourself in Al foil like a baked potato would be a great treatment and would really get the point across.

    The important thing is that you are happy. And I think that will only come with a new audience. Not like the one here who have heard all this rambling before from daniel. You probably should move, I think he was here first and now you're taking his most loyal readers of his reports. If you two could get together, he could tell you about his favorite topic, the Amero. You can shoot the breeze with your pentagon plane/missle anecdotes. Resolve your territorial disputes peacefully. Like the UN does.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:14 am on Wed, Nov 9, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mike, Woops typo. Should have been "disassociate."

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:53 am on Wed, Nov 9, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Andrew stated..." MORON MIKE"

    Clearly, Andrew has difficulty in controlling his emotions and feelings. I normally have empathy for individuals that lack self control or ability of manage their emotions who respond to what they do not like spontaneously without thought.
    Andrew reminds of of a child who becomes irritated with someone who loves him and without self control, blurs out words in anger directed at the party who irritated him.

    I have sympathy for such individuals. However in Andrew's case, I do not.
    He repeats the same thing time and again as if it were the first time.

    A reasonable person who had a slight bit of adult maturity and control, would realize it is inappropriate to call anyone a moron even if it fit the occasion. This is why I will only refer to Andrew... as Andrew... otherwise, I would look ridiculous and childish..as he does.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:45 pm on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mike, It appears that you have an incredible ability to associate your acceptance of responsibility from your own actions.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:44 pm on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mike, Here you go, and I expect you to stick your shoe in hour mouth.

    “If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.”

    Actually, it appears that the final ratification by Virginia occurred after the War of 1812 which had burned the Library of Congress, and this amendment mysteriously disappeared around the Civil War.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:37 pm on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mike, If I produce the text of the 13th amendment, do you agree to accept egg on your face?

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:31 pm on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Good Grief!!! Another key document in the conspiracy theorist movement is/has been/never really existed cannot be retrieved!!! So sad....... All this evidence which proves all their lunatic stories always seem to be unavailable because they were stolen or hidden away or destroyed.... I sense a common thread, maybe they never really existed. Quick..... Let’s go to You Tube, the conspiracy theorists’ answer to the library of congress and the public archive. "If it's nutty, it's on You Tube!!!" or "If no one believes you, bring them to You Tube, where everything is real and really happened!"

    daniel, without a copy of that original document, you have no evidence that it ever existed.

    Andrew, I think you meant to type this:
    "I mentioned 16 Beaver St. and Adbusters because that is where the Occupy movement originated. No one cares about this little tid-bit of information, but I include it to make it appear I'm more intelligent, which I'm not"
    There, I think that is what you meant to write. No thanks necessary, glad to help you out.

    Now if you would quit confusing the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution of the United States. I don't need a history lesson or a time line. I know what and when, and the big what you don't know is that they are not the same and one can't be substituted for the other. The Articles of Confederation are not a constitution. It doesn't take the place of the constitution. It was a first effort to unify the various colonies (or states) into a collective so that the common good could be achieved. Just going to wikipedia and copying and pasting some opinion of another twit does not make it any more legitimate. Maybe if you hadn't slept through Government in high school you would know that. I'm betting it wouldn't have made a difference. Or do you have a you tube video for that to?

    You know Darrell, I'm not sure this Andrew mutt even lives in Lodi or the surrounding area. I know daniel posts in many other media outlets, I think Andrew is like this. He could live in Louisiana, back in the bayou for all we know. Maybe we could construct an instrument (that means "test" in this case Andrew (or should I say "Androu") that could ferret him out. It wouldn't be hard, I've lived here all my life, I think you have to. It would have to be something that he can't find by googling it. Or on You Tube. What do you think? It's about time we cleaned out the undesirables.

    He just popped (or pooped is more like it!) up (or down) here all of sudden like he knew everything. Please note, I said "like he knew everything", not "he knew everything".
    Maybe all of us will get lucky and be able to read another 400 lines of text stolen from some other, better author, and I am really wishing for another you tube submission from some country rube talking about how the government covered up this and covered up that and blah blah blah. I think Androu maybe is drinking some hooch he made up and it is effecting is reasoning (but not his cut and pasting). Androu: don't pour gasoline into the hooch!!! Didn't your pappy learn you nothin' (fortunately, I speak cajun)? Oooppp, wait, it must be time to go check the crawdad traps. Gittin' close to supper time.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:31 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Andrew stated...Darrell, F.Y.I., I find most of your posts to be equally idiotic


    Mike...
    I am shocked and bewildered. All this time I was under the impression that Andrew was appreciative and admiring of my opinions and thoughts.
    I guess we are in the same boat and might as well sail off into the sunset and surrender to Andrew's wisdom and perception.

    On the other hand,  until 2007, the California Penal Code Section 26 stated that "Idiots" were one of six types of people who are not capable of committing crimes.  Maybe Andrew was really just stating that we are very honest citizens of character. We wouldn't even consider being a criminal or commit a crime no matter.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 9:14 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Kevin Paglia.
    Since our posts are irretrievable, typos are cmmoo.n

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:59 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    Darrell, F.Y.I., I find most of your posts to be equally idiotic but at least you can spell and form a complete sentence.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:56 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    I think Kevin's post at 7:33 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011. presents good reasoning why this group should not be supported. Our economy is not doing as well and this group is making it worse. To add to Kevin's thought, this movement is fostering negativism, pessimism, negativity and anger that takes away from positive energy that focuses on optimistic solutions. This is not constructive in the least.

    Lastly, most people in this movement express selfish self centered desires which is the antithesis of what John F Kennedy stated... Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. I think If president Kennedy had said this to the Occupy Wall Street crowd, riots would have resulted.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:44 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mike Adams: That's the 13th amendment, ratified in 1811, not the 14th.

    Ratified in 1811, this amendment would have been grounds for war by the International Bankers - Investors in Great Britain.

    The 13th amendment was a statement of war because it would have purged all members of the British Accredited Registry out of the American Government, and by this act, the monarchy and the Crown of England (the banks) would no longer have had their agents in our government.

    The official records of the states show that it was ratified. If you want to dig into those archives, you are welcome to indulge.

    Otherwise, I will keep my eyes open for the text of the document.

    Remember that the original document was burned in the fires in Washington, in the War of 1812. Thereby the British achieved their military objective.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:43 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mike... I could be wrong, but there is a possibility that Andrew does not appreciate your posts. I cannot put my finger on why I'm thinking this, it's just a wild guess on my part.

    Personally, I think your opinion is interesting. Im not sure why Andrew appears to be unsettled and miffed. Maybe he needs a vacation from his vapor caper. Who knows.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 7:36 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1880

    "focing" should be "forcing" and "vertually" should be "virtually". sorry, sould have spell checked first.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 7:33 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1880

    Here is my impression of the OWLS: Despite having some points I mostly agree with I WILL NOT support the OWLS because through their actions they are focing small businesses to close early, losing money. They are making patronizing these businesses impossible which loses the businesses money. They are vandalizing these businesses which is costing the business money. And they are forcing larger and larger police presences which costs the tax payer money and pulls cops away from looking for bad guys.

    Now they are looking at invading foreclosed structures which will make them vertually unsellable for the near future meaning that those who would buy them and start helping turn this economy around will be chased off.

    The OWLS message is being destroyed by the violence and aggressive posturing. It is a real shame too because I would like to see a liberal version of the Tea Party. Then we would have the extreme Left, extreme Right, moderate left and right then the Libertarian party which is the smartest choice anyway ;-)

     
  • Gary Musto posted at 6:32 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    Gary Musto Posts: 504

    "OO" (Occupy Oakland) has come up with a new "strategery", it will now attempt to occupy foreclosed or abandoned structures through out the US.

    "OO" organizer Adrian Dyer said, "It's a very important front for the Occupy Movement all over the country, and if any one city can set a president for taking over foreclosed buildings, the idea will then spread quickly."

    Maybe the 99%ers are thinking of turning some of those abandoned buildings into union halls since they have now paired up with organized labor??

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:26 am on Tue, Nov 8, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    I am very aware of the Articles of Confederation. THIS WAS NOT "A" OR "ORIGINAL" constitution. It didn't work and so leaders met again and worked out the problems and produced what we today call "The Constitution". You should have known the difference know-it-all. Like you daniel rarely provides a real legitamet document, just some manufactured document or you tube video because everyone knows, if it';s on the internet, it must be true.

    daniel has referred at times to "the original 14th amendment" and other "original" parts of the constitution. I don't know if these were drafts or what. He has been unable to provide any documentation of any of his allegations.

    "F.Y.I., It's quite odd that none of you discussing the occupy movement have even mentioned 16 Beaver St. or Adbusters"------Who cares?

    Finally, as to NORAD tapes and web site: Military websites usually end in ".mil", possibly ".gov", not with .org or .com. You should learn to tell the difference.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:09 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mark,
    Politicians, news media, and now, protestors will guide you to your economic prosperity.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 11:07 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mike Adams,
    Nothing is blamed on the LNS.
    LNS was mentioned when Mark stated that he would have preferred an alternative statement, within the LNS 250 word limit. Mark was in a state of distress, and I tried to explain to Mark that a letter has word limits.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 6:36 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Baumbach your post at 5:08 proves what? A group of people are being supported by donations from people who support the group. A church does the same thing. People donate to the American Red Cross because they accept the cause and want to help. At what point is it a terrible thing to accept donations for your cause? At what point is it a terrible thing to make a donation to a group who's cause you accept and want to help? Where's your smoking gun that proves that any outside group paid the OWS to organize and start protesting?

    I think that many of you are trying to find some sort of evil in a cause that may not exist at all. Given enough time, most of you will come up with, and believe anything, except that maybe just a group of people wanted to excercise their constitutional right to protest. Just because you may not like what they are protesting, or can't understand why they are protesting, doesn't mean that anyone paid them to start protesting or that they do not have the right to protest. Now that's reality.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 6:30 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    There is a probe into contributions from the new New York Communities for Change, NYCC (re-invented ACORN and staffed by former ACORN people) to the OWS protesters. Money that was collected for Union interests and money collected supposedly to clean up PCB's in schools. Gee, wasn't ACORN Obama's former affiliation?? Yeah, you LIBS just keep sticking your head up, er, in the sand. Nothing wrong going on here. All is well, justt sip your Starbucks and smile.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:08 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Trovinger stated...Just because a person sees the OWS people spending money during their protests doesn't mean they didn't collect the money themselves. It does not mean that some outside group paid them to be there.

    Hummm...
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Occupy-Wall-Street-shows-apf-2842064446.html?x=0

    The space was donated by the United Federation of Teachers, which has offices in the building.
    Close to $300,000 in cash also has been donated, through the movement's website and by people who give money in person at the park, said Bill Dobbs, a press liaison for Occupy Wall Street. The movement has an account at Amalgamated Bank, which bills itself as "the only 100 percent union-owned bank in the United States."
    Strekal said the donated goods are being stored "for a long-term occupation."
    "We are unstoppable! Another world is possible!" Kara Segal and other volunteers chanted in the building lobby as they arrived to help unpack and sort items, preparing them to be rolled out to the park.
    Financing the occupation of Wall Street
    Sebastian Walsh
    14 Oct 2011


    A Reuters investigation has claimed that Occupy Wall Street has at least $200,000 behind it – and that is on top of the donations in kind of blankets, food and clothing.
    Adbusters, a Canadian anti-capitalist group, is the organising force behind Occupy Wall Street. It generates revenues of its own, publishing a magazine with a circulation of over 100,000. However, Reuters did claim there was one indirect link with Soros.
    Open Society, an NGO set up by Soros, gave grants worth $3.5m to the Tides Centre, the Reuters investigation found. The Tides Centre acts like a clearing house, directing contributions to various causes – and between 2001 and 2010, it gave Adbusters $185,000, according to Reuters.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:52 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Trovinger stated...Obviously you think it is impossible for a group of individuals to come together to participate in anything unless some higher group has pulled some magic strings for the group or has manipulated the actions of the group.

    Obviously, you are mistaken as to what I think...I do not think what you claim at all. The thought never crossed my mind. What is obvious to you is not reality... I think you are being consistent.

    If fact, I very much think it is possible and likely that a group can get together without some magic strings as you phrased it. There are many group in history that have done so. Just not this one...which is blatantly obvious to objective people.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 4:08 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    Mr. Adams,

    As a former history teacher you don't seem to know much about the history of the United States. When Daniel refers to the "original Constitution" he is most likely referring to the original Constitution.

    The Articles of Confederation, formally the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, was an agreement among the 13 founding states that legally established the United States of America as a confederation of sovereign states and served as its first Constitution. It was drafted by the Continental Congress in 1776–77, went into use in 1777 and was formally ratified by all 13 states in 1781. The document is not "doctored", "secreter" or "secretier".

    F.Y.I., It's quite odd that none of you discussing the occupy movement have even mentioned 16 Beaver St. or Adbusters.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:01 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    Ben Franklin would not appreciate your position...time IS money. Especially if you bought gas. It is the little things that add up...I still commend you...you gave freely...and did not expect to get freely...OWS...so goes the entitlement game...you give because you want to...they take because they want to...

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 2:52 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Mark,

    Sorry about that. I meant to mean daniel couldn't produce any sort of evidence proving the existance of an "origninal constitution" or what ever he calls it. Conspiracy theorists can only present doctored documents, or documents alleging some factor in some conspiracy they believe is true. You'll see, there will not be a scintilla of evidence or if there is, it will be in the form of some website or you tube video where some guy says "there is a second constitution". They think that qualifies as evidence.

    As to daniels report, most of it doesn't make sense. I think he blamed it on the LNS, but really, he didn't know what the occupy movement was, then he's some sort of expert in their goals, their heirachy, etc., by the end of the letter?

    He no longer has any credibility. I think the LNS runs his letters because we enjoy the comic value of them.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 2:43 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr Maple you state, "However, let me point out that money was used...you donated it." This is not true. I did not donate money but I did donate time and services. Instead of money donated, we collected the majority of the money for the expenses from the participants who paid a fee to be in the event. Just because a person sees the OWS people spending money during their protests doesn't mean they didn't collect the money themselves. It does not mean that some outside group paid them to be there.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 2:32 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Adams I'm not sure if you meant to.... but you addressed you comment to me, then stated that Daniel doesn't know the constitution but has professed to being an expert.....following up with, "My guess is you will be able to produce none of this and like a good consipricy theorist you will treat us with disdain."

    If I follow this right, you are saying that I could not produce any any of the things that Daniel needs to be verified and that I am the one who is a conspiracy theorist...????

    I wasn't the one who brought up the Constitution, (any of them), as a solution to the problem. It was Daniel Hutchins that brought up finding the solution to the problem using the (or a version of the) Constitution. How does this make me a conspiracy theorist?

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 1:48 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Mark,
    You see daniel doesn't really know the Constitution (although he has professed to be an expert numerous times here and elsewhere). Like a good conspiracy theorist, he alludes to "the original constitution". I would say that if there is an original (or is it a second constitution?) constitution, then produce it.

    We need to verify:
    1. There is a document, titled "Constitution of the United States
    or some similar title, and
    2. We can verify when and where it was written and,
    3. It was passed by what ever criteria set forth in the document
    and,
    4. you can produce it, and
    5. There is some historical record that confirms it's existance.

    My guess is you will be able to produce none of this and like a good consipricy theorist you will treat us with disdain.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:16 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    To all: It seems that these discussions begin with accusations and end with facts...only to be disputed by another accusation...followed by additional facts. Some asked: "What jobs bills have the Republicans tried to pass?"...followed by 15+ facts...no response... Fact: Nancy Pelosi commented 2 days after the first protests on how spontaneous and pure this event was...rebutal?

    Fact: A commendable one!: A group of individuals, I'm associated with, accomplished something this weekend without having any any other group finance it, orchestrate it or promote it. This group was the Grape Bowl Classic band review...no rebuttal just a thanks. However, let me point out that money was used...you donated it.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 12:04 pm on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Hutchins you were the one who stated that the solution to the problem was in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. You refuse to explain what in these documents offers the solution. You have tried to look intelligent by dropping the names of these important documents but haven't explained anything on how to use the information within these documents to solve anything.

    You might as well have said that the solution to this problem is contained in the ingredients list on a can of Campbell's soup and you would still be asked the same question of....."What is listed there that is the solution to this problem".

    It is obvious to me that you have no clue what it is that you are talking about when you say the solution to the problem is in these documents. If you did know what you were talking about, you would be able to tell people to look at a particular section in one of these documents to be able to come to the same conclusion that you have come to, based upon what you claimed to have seen as the solution. Instead, you offer incoherent BS concerning the first few words of the preamble of the constitution. You sadly, apparently have no clue as to how stupid this makes you look.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 11:22 am on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Baubach you have stated, "it defies logic and common sense to think there was not a unifying force that financed, orchestrated and promoted this entire thing."

    Obviously you think it is impossible for a group of individuals to come together to participate in anything unless some higher group has pulled some magic strings for the group or has manipulated the actions of the group.

    Read today's LNS. A group of individuals, I'm associated with, accomplished something this weekend without having any any other group finance it, orchestrate it or promote it. This group was the Grape Bowl Classic band review. We were not finaced by anyone, nobody told us to do this band review and nobody promoted this band review except for the individuals that planned and executed the event.

    Now, according to you, it is impossible for any group to do anything on their own without outside influence from some sort of higher level group or authority. You say this defies logic and common sense. Yet, right here in our home town we have evidence that a group of individuals can come together to finance, orchestrate and promote an event without any outside influence. I believe that this shoots your common sense and logic, concerning the impossibility of groups being able to act on their own, right out of the water.

    The band event this last Saturday in Lodi was not marred by any violence like some of the OWS events. However, had there been any violence, it would not have been violence planned by the Lodi event's coordinators, but would have been something done by individuals, outside the event, intent upon causing problems and violence.

    It takes a small mind to think that anything, and everything, is impossible to accomplish unless some outside group pulls the strings or orchestrates everything to make the thing possible.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:55 am on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Human rights are reserved to people, not Citizens.
    I would rather have human rights than civil or constitutional rights.
    There is no such thing as a constitutional right. The constitution only restricts the government from taking away human rights from the people. However, it is not restricted to its Citizens.
    If a Citizen is created by Government (uppercase), it cannot be flesh and blood. The only rights that could possibly be enjoyed by a Citizen are those rights that are conveyed by its creator, the Government.

    When I refer to Declaration of Independence, I am saying that rights can only be enjoyed by people, and if someone doesn't realize that they are one of the people, then they cannot enjoy those rights.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:51 am on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mark,
    Nowhere in the Declaration of Independence does it say that citizens have any rights.
    In the original constitution, citizens are only mentioned, but not defined. It reserved the right to define citizenship to the states.
    In the original, the term "citizen" is used with lowercase as a common noun thing. Conversely, in the 14th amendment, a fictititious title "Citizen" is defined. Ah ha! Few people noticed that, right?

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 9:58 am on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mark,
    I have already given you sufficient information. If you cannot be educated any further, there isn't anything that I'm going to say that is going to change that.

    Quite simply, the Constitution begins, "We the People" (formed this constitution.)

    You act as if it states, "We the Citizens" (formed this constitution.)

    Citizens don't have a constitution. Vice Versa, the constitution has the "Citizens."
    That's with a Capital "C" forming a proper noun title.

    Until you get this, there isn't anything that I can do for you.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:50 am on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    I provide a link exposing the communists/socialists currently in Washington and Mr. Adams says, "Andrew has checked in with his first looney conspiracy theory link."

    Who on that list do you not consider a communist and/or socialist Mr. Adams?


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:10 am on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    To add to Andrews post...

    The Communist Takeover Of
    America - 45 Declared Goals
    From Greg Swank
    12-4-2

    You are about to read a list of 45 goals that found their way down the halls of our great Capitol back in 1963. As you read this, 39 years later, you should be shocked by the events that have played themselves out. I first ran across this list 3 years ago but was unable to attain a copy and it has bothered me ever since. Recently, Jeff Rense posted it on his site and I would like to thank him for doing so. http://www.rense.com

    Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963

    Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .

    Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

    At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

    [From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

    1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

    2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

    3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

    4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

    5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

    6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

    7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

    8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

    9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

    10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

    11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

    12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

    13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

    14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

    15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

    16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

    17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

    18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

    19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

    20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

    21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

    22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

    23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

    24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

    25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

    26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

    27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

    28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

    29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

    30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

    31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

    32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

    33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

    34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

    35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

    36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

    37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

    38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

    39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

    40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

    41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

    42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

    43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

    44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

    45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

    Note by Webmaster: The Congressional Record back this far has not be digitized and posted on the Internet.


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:04 am on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Mr Trovinger stated...Mr. Adams......Very nicely stated. It's good to hear a rational comment on this subject

    This after this observation was made........"I don't see this occupy anything other than groups of like-minded, well behaved individuals expressing their first amendment rights." .....With some "d**k heads looking for an opportunity to tear the place up".

    Reminds me of a parent who sees their child as an angel while others see them from a different perspective. Anyone who thinks this was a spontaneous grassroots uprising really has special rose colored glasses. Nancy Pelosi commented 2 days after the first protests on how spontaneous and pure this event was and embraced this movement as a thing of goodness that the American people should be proud of. This after she demonized the tea party as terrorists. Give me a break.
    When hundreds of protests suddenly appear seemingly from nowhere throughout United States and some internationally, and when all have the same signs and slogans, and when all of them have no clear unified message ( except Wall Street) or even understand why they are there, it defies logic and common sense to think there was not a unifying force that financed, orchestrated and promoted this entire thing. Where the union is involved, an atmosphere of anger, confrontation, and violence is fostered. It is likely and expected that what we saw in Oakland would happen. Its not if... it is just a matter of time.
    To state that the unions and democratic party were not involved from day one, is silly beyond belief.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:47 am on Mon, Nov 7, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    And Andrew has checked in with his first looney conspiracy theory link.

    I don't watch TV news. Perhaps you should. You could observe how normal people think.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:00 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    "The World over, the only ones who support communism are those in communist governments and their associated toadies." -Mike Adams

    One would think it newsworthy if the President of the United States appointed an admitted communist to a key position in his administration. Wouldn’t one?

    Mr. Adams there are quite a few Socialists/Communists in the White House right now! Turn off your TV and WAKE-UP!

    http://www.nachumlist.com/Socialists.htm

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:23 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1880

    As for "The Southern Strategy" I had to look it up though I had an idea as to its concept. Doesn't surprise me, politicians from both sides have done and will do just about anything to get elected. Political mob mentality is rampant in DC and across the country, as soon as one starts doing something, then someone else tries to push moral behavior even further. Do you really think it is just to call someone a racist for disagreeing with Obama's policies?

    I'll read your response with interest but will not comment on the race aspect of this conversation as others have already stated that they think it is just "steam" or a tangent. I thought it was more of a direct comparison, but it just shows how everyone (from University Professors to LNS bloggers) can let their personal bias influence how they see things.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:18 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1880

    Thank you Andy. As I look through the questions I can see some are written to get the response they desire from the groups they want (specifically to illustrate racism). For example:

    First question "Irish, Italians, Jewish, and many other minorities overcame prejudice and worked their way up. Blacks should do the same without special favors. (Agree)"

    It is the "without special favors" that is there to illicit the response desired. Most on the conservative side don't think (from my observation) that "special favors" should be given to anyone by the government, rather the Conservatives believe a LEVEL playing field is desirable so of course the Conservative Tea Party would answer in agreement with the question and the questionnaire interprets this as racist.

    looking at the lead researcher it is clear he is of the mindset that if you are against Obama's policies it is only because you are racist. In fact the more I read from him the more i suspect he is racist against white people and had let that bias influence his research. Even some of his own students think so (granted some loved him too) http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1259965&page=1

    A rebuttal to Parker's claims from the WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704302304575214080056337658.html

    This survey is a good example of why it is important to look at the questions and terminology used before accepting the results.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 6:38 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 244

    Kevin, another study (including the questions) can be accessed at the link below.

    http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/racepolitics.html
    Scroll down and click on the links to the various tables and questions.
    You can also find out all about the researchers and their methodology.

    It came to the same conclusions and was conducted by the University of Washington. I posted the other study first because it listed concrete examples that are easy to check online--instances of white supremacists leading tea party groups, hate speakers invited to speak at affiliated groups, as well as racist materials passed out at these events and posted on websites.

    I wonder if you have ever heard of "The Southern Strategy"?

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 5:31 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Adams......Very nicely stated. It's good to hear a rational comment on this subject. It's amazing to hear everyone else blaming some sort of outside influence on the OWS movement. The left is blaming the right....The right is blaming the left.....The communist party is to blame.....The Tea Party is behind this....Its the Republicans....Its the Democrats.....

    Your explaination is the most likely....."I don't see this occupy anything other than groups of like-minded, well behaved individuals expressing their first amendment rights." .....With some "d**k heads looking for an opportunity to tear the place up".

    If a person was to read most of these comments, it would be evident that the comment writers can't imagine a group doing anything on their own, without having some outside group putting them up to doing it.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 4:44 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Darrell, Kevin went off on a tangent briefly. He's back with us now. The race thing was just steam.

    I don't see this occupy anything other than groups of like-minded, well behaved individuals expressing their first amendment rights. Hohnestly, I have no idea why an educated person would be against a group exercising their rights. You don't have to like their message, but they have a right to spread it.


    There is an infiltration, from which side I'm not sure that seeks to make these peaceful demonstrations something more violent. You see the same group everytime the lights go out for more than 30 minutes or their team wins a world championship. Just d**k heads looking for an opportunity to tear the place up.
    It would be best if both sides monitored and if it could be worked out, some way of splitting the loosers out and away from the masses so they could be more easily identified and dealt with. Severely. And don't give me the 1st amendment on that. It doesn't say you can loot and pillage in the first amenndment. I thinik the important term is "peacibly assemble"

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:19 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Interesting how a debate on racism evolved when in fact, racism should not be part of this discussion.

    The Occupy Wall street crowd failed in its mission to create a grassroots movement that the democratic party so desperately wanted. The debate of racism of the tea party is a red herring and is only brought up to misdirect the energy and focus. As long as union thinkers are involved, it is doomed to fail.

    The tea party wants less government interference, a simplified tax code and bureaucracy. It is populated by people who are concerned for the welfare of our country. The left has good people in it, but see government has their life boat and thought Obama was going to deliver more of what they wanted.
    All this talk of racism is really boring and hardly rates a yawn since it has no reality behind it... At least people like Herman Cain and Judge Thomas see it that way... so do I. The survey Mike references to me is simply designed to stoke the flames of anger and distract from the real issues.

    I think we should keep our eye on the real problem. The policies and vision of Barack Obama.
    Newt Gingrich and Herman Cain are looking better and better.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:45 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    I looked: Geee no bias here:
    Home - Institute for Research and Education on Human Rights

    Current Articles and Reports:

    Nation, State, & Citizenship

    Institute for Research and Education on Human Rights.

    Hands Off Occupy Wall Street!!

    Who on the Right is trying to co-opt Occupy Wall Street ...

    Who is Alex Jones?
    A new IREHR investigation looks at the bigotry of radio host ...

    Federation For American ...

    Tea Party Switcheroo: Different Nativist Group to Present at ...

    International Dimensions

    Institute for Research and Education on Human Rights.

    Maybe just a LITTLE slant here??

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:40 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    Mr A: It is called cover...misdirection...misinformation...miss the mark? I ask: How is it that big business will make money without workers? Wait...that is what governments do.

    Mr C: Which race? As far as what I have seen the Tea Party is represented by many races...many cultures...I am not a Tea Partier yet ms b seems to think it is okay to call me and many others who write here racists...where is the outrage? As far as the OWEEES (pun) I harken back the the Viet Nam nuts.

    Mr C: I agree.

    Mr Joe: I now know you know! Good one!

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 3:39 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1880

    Andy, thank you for the response. i looked through the link you provided. It appears to be VERY biased against the Tea party movement. Especially with headlines like "Providing a Platform to Bigots", "Enter White Nationalists", and "Bigotry and the health care reform vote".

    I looked for the original survey since I know surveys can be written to get the response you want but couldn't find a sample of the questions asked. Lot's of article like the one posted that refer to the study, but nothing from the study directly. But from the "Washington Institute for the Study of Ethnicity, Race and Sexuality" that did the study I did find their mission statement: The University of Washington's Institute for the Study of Ethnicity, Race and Sexuality, is an interdisciplinary research center dedicated to bringing the tools of contemporary social science inquiry to the careful examination of issues of social, economic, and political exclusion and disadvantage of marginalized minority populations in the United States, and their potential solutions.

    I see potential bias against a conservative group (the tea party organization) from a group that says point blankly they are looking at the exclusion and marginalized populations. What this tells me is they are not looking from a perspective of society as a whole, but rather from the perspective of who is group X harming our group.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 3:33 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    Kevin...settle down.... I never said anything about the tea party or any of the parties they may throw. I think you need to look elsewhere for the answers to the questions you posed to me.

    But since you opened it up, like Andy, I think there is a racial element in the tea party. Clearly not everyone in the tea party is a racist. Maybe only a handfull. My experience with SOME people who what you or I might consider racist beliefs or have provided comments with distinct racist undertones (N jokes, comments, myths about African Americans, things of that nature) are involved with the tea party. Some always vote republican. I can's say for sure, because I never asked any of them, but probably there is a large number of democrats that are racists. I only link the tea party and the republican parties because they have expressed views of a racist nature AND have told me they always vote republican or that they are involved in the tea party.

    I think clearly, the republican party and the tea party both have difficulty attracting minorities to their way of thinking and will continue to do so, mostly due to a lack of trust held by minorities about the motives of the tea party and the republican party. I'm not saying that's the real reason, but my guess would be that because of a lot of rhetoric that comes from conservatives (all sources) seems to denigrate and to place minorities subservient to Anglo s.

    If anyone in the republican party or the tea party or the democratic party has a problem with this, they need to look at who ever is providing the message that is going out across America. Yelling at me will not change any of that. I'm a late middle aged white guy. Attacking me is not going to change the altitude of the tea party or the republican party.

    As to my earlier post, you're pretty bright, can you say that what I posted earlier would not be a great idea to stain those in the democratic party. I know things like this have happened in the past. This really is just another form of a false flag attack. And it's a he'll of a good way to attack the other side (that being my side). He'll, if I was organizing something like that it would provide a great opportunity to wound somebody politically. They did it in Seatle some years back at the some big economic summit. Agitators from outside were brought in by someone and they tore the place apart. I'm sure the organizers never thought about something like that happening. These are different times. It has become to easy to blur the good from the bad.

    The only constant thing is daniel.

    We will always have daniel (until the FBI carts him off).

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 2:32 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 244

    You ask a good question, Kevin, and I'd like to address it. I would never make the overgeneralization that ALL tea partiers were/are racist, but several studies clearly illustrate pervasive racist sentiment in the ranks.

    http://www.irehr.org/issue-areas/tea-party-nationalism/the-report/tea-parties-racism-anti-semitism-and-the-militia-impulse

     
  • Raymond Cook posted at 2:12 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Raymond Cook Posts: 125

    Great Comment, you made Robert.

    Robert Chapman posted at 5:19 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:11 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1880

    Isn't it interesting how when the Tea party rallies were attended by racists then the left screamed at how it represented ALL tea Party members. But when Occupy Wall Street is attended by thugs who vandalize businesses, attack police and are violent people, then the Left (Mr. Adams illustrates this) scream at how the Right must have hired them to come out. Mr. Adams, or anyone thinking the same thoughts, can you explain this to me? Why are the Tea Partiers racists when racists come out, but the OWSer (can we call the Owls? Can i coin that term) have anarchists come out they are not part of that group?

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 12:36 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1271

    daniel's decline in lucidity has become even more apparent in this, his latest "report" to the LNS Letters to the Editors.

    As to the topic, there is no doubt that there has been some infiltration of the ranks of mostly peaceful demonstrators with those who seek to obstruct and destroy. Who are these goons? Who has hired them?

    The communists? Really?. The World over, the only ones who support communism are those in communist governments and their associated toadies. The masses wish they gone. Organized labor? Probably some involvement. Anarchists? Oh Yeah.... The CFR? Please, be realistic.

    What I sense is that some on the right have supported and promoted the behavior we have seen recently. Call it your "false flag" if you want. You seem to enjoy that type of intrigue. Look at who has to gain? Obama? what? No, I think it's a concerted effort to make in the US a movement similar to that in Greece, so that the Obama administration can be faulted. The only ones who gain anything by these demonstrations are the right, the only ones who stand to gain anything if people remain unemployed, if big business is allowed carte blanch is the right.

    On a more positive note, it seems daniel has lost his copy of the magna carta and has replaced it with a document called the "United States Constitution". Well maybe now, the self-professed expert can at least read it once. Perhaps he'll learn something. I doubt it, but maybe he will.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 12:06 pm on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1795

    DB, RC, AL, PM, DH, what are you guys trying to do, make liberal heads explode? They can't accept any negative remarks about their regime. You must all be dead wrong. Wait, nope, that ain't it. Ya suppose this information has been blocked on liberal computers and other main stream media? Nope, that ain't it either. So, the only conclusion is that liberals just don't WANT to believe the truth.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 11:17 am on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    Nice one DB.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:54 am on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Andrew Liebich posted at 12:29 am on Sun, Nov 6, 2011...It should be no surprise that Communist Party USA has officially endorsed the Occupy Wall Street protests.

    http://www.cpusa.org/solidarity-with-occupy-wall-street/

    Andrew hit the nail squarely on the head.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:51 am on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Gary stated...This mornings SF Chronicle reported that the OWS movement and big labor are joining forces in their fight for the rights of the 99%ers. "I absolutely see a bright future for the two movements working together."
    Josie Camacho, executive secretary-treasure of the Alameda Labor Council.

    If the reporter had been honest, it would have been written ( content) …

    This morning SF Chronicle reported that the OWS movement and big labor finally admits that union money,union organizers and Obama's community organizers had orchestrated this entire protest. There was an urgent feeling that the democratic party needed its own tea party to give the impression of grassroots support for democratic causes. Unfortunately, the Occupy Protesters revealed who they really were and exposed the character and heart that led to violence and anarchy. In the name of damage control, big labor has decided to end it's fraudulence and dishonest movement and take responsibility for future activity. ACORN , unions and community organizers in action... the real thing.

     
  • Gary Musto posted at 7:25 am on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Gary Musto Posts: 504

    This mornings SF Chronicle reported that the OWS movement and big labor are joining forces in their fight for the rights of the 99%ers.

    "I absolutely see a bright future for the two movements working together."
    Josie Camacho, executive secretary-treasure of the Alameda Labor Council.

    OWS spokesman, Kevin Seal, "It makes sense for us to hook up."

    This is going to be nothing but trouble for the OWS movement who rail against greed, power and corruption. The unions in this state have OWNED our politicians for decades, nothing good will come from this association as our state sinks further in debt and destruction.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:14 am on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1804

    DB quote: "one might consider this president needs a distraction to focus on to avoid talking about his record. Bingo!!!

    DH: Good letter...however for most of these occupiers the problem arises within the first few lines of the document: "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." They believe there is no God and that they are entitled just because they are alive.

    The answere for Mr T should be to tell these morons to GET A JOB! Other than a professional protester. "Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes" Jobs are often transient.

    Right on BD!!!: "Hey Dude...they are on to us!" Couldn't have said it better!!!

    RC: Nailed it!

    jb: "Have you ever considered actually getting an education so you can make real world observations instead of just repeating the tripe that you hear on FOX News?"
    RC quotes ms b: " You once told me that education didn't mean you were smart. I guess you speak from experience, eh?"

    Welllll, ms b: I have all five educations: college (including post grad), business (40 yrs), political (14 elected), real world (60 yrs) and family (40 yrs). I use those educations and experiences to make decisions about many things...including the evaluations of situations and people...my choice: not you.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:29 am on Sun, Nov 6, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    It should be no surprise that Communist Party USA has officially endorsed the Occupy Wall Street protests.

    http://www.cpusa.org/solidarity-with-occupy-wall-street/

    The truth is that the goals of the Occupy Wall Street movement are not some great mystery. They have put them out there for everyone to see.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:01 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Where did I read that thought... pursuit of happiness... I cannot remember.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:58 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Daniel stated....If this were a legitimate movement, I question the title Occupy. In my opinion, this word represents a sense of conflict

    I think the term occupy here is a word of entitlement and aggression considering who is doing the occupation. In fact, I have been under the impression that these people have been participating in occupation activities for decades.

    I always thought we had a right to " pursue happiness” ... evidently, these people demand happiness be guaranteed and "given" to them no matter. Union mentality is on display. Merit has nothing to do with what they get in life.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:32 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Daniel... I think you are having too much fun!!

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:25 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Darrell: Thank you for all those facts. I would never have had the patience or time to find those.

    Brian: That's pretty funny. LOL.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 10:21 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Hutchins you are being evasive. You are the one that stated "I recommend a solution which uses these documents." You are talking about the OWS protests...aren't you. I'm making the assumtion you are referring to the people protesting as the problem that requires a solution.

    What is that you read in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution that would, or could, be able to be used as a solution to the problem? If you state that there is a solution in these documents, and you recommend using that solution. You should be able to state how to use these documents as a solution to the problem. This is a fair and ligitimate question.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:15 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Robert, thank you.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 10:15 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Joanne Bobin,
    Robert wrote, "Instead of researching what is REALLY going on in the world, you elect to chide and denegrate those who do."

    I couldn't have said it better.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:57 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Andrew,
    Thank you for providing an education on the relationship between the Counsel on Foreign Relations (New York City) and Washington.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:54 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mark,
    A vast percentage of people can’t think beyond what is happening to them right now, and don’t think outside of Lodi politics, as if US and foreign policy don’t affect the price of gasoline.

    In 2002 (?) when President Bush had caused American troops to be mobilized along the Kuwaiti – Iraqi border, ready to invade, someone told me, in Lodi, that they don’t care because it doesn’t affect them. I thought this opinion was sickening.

    This sort of complacency is how Washington is able to have the policies that it does have.

    In regards to politics or foreign policy, people with families tell me that they don’t care beyond their ability to take care of their family right here, right now, this month. This was before foreclosure went to 10%. This guy actually turned his back on the very situations which today are causing the 10% foreclosure rate, which actually places his family's home at risk. In other words, his priorities were backwards, and seriously mistaken. This guy's typical response is what actually gives permission for the situation of 10% foreclosure to occur. Complacency.

    Before anyone is going to look toward two government documents for a solution, nothing is going to go anywhere until people give themselves a wake-up call and decide that certain things are important.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:39 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Mark,

    ("So what is your recommended solution?")

    While the Lodinews limits the letter to 250 words, in this case I had too many things to say without encroaching upon an offering for a solution.

    So, quite simply, I state that the solution lies in the two precious documents which should never be abandoned.

    If I had had a few more words, I think I would have stated that the problems which plague our nation today are a result of abandonment of these documents.

    Privately, that means that peoples’ complacency, in other words, a refusal to educate themselves, is fatal to the survival of the American economy, and culture.

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:39 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1335

    Joanne Bobin, (I see you are criticizing Robert for reasons which also lack substance.)

    You wrote, (“Do you actually deny that anarchy is your imagined purpose in life?”)
    Yes I do deny.

    (“Seriously, Daniel?”)
    Yes, seriously.
    I am devoted to a Constitutional form of government, although you may not recognize this fact.

    (“considering your past letters and comments”)
    I am not here to reconcile your conflicting perceptions.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 5:19 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Ahhh, Joanne, you are up to your usual BS. Instead of researching what is REALLY going on in the world, you elect to chide and denegrate those who do. What's the matter, doesn't what you read fit in your neat little liberal brain? Sad, but true. I know you are the smartest woman in Lodi, maybe you ought try using your intellect for something besides name calling and ludicrous inuendos. You once told me that education didn't mean you were smart. I guess you speak from experience, eh?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 4:49 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4306

    Just as you seem to know what everyone's motives are, Mr. Chapman, you once again have nailed it with the OWS crowd.

    Have you ever considered actually getting an education so you can make real world observations instead of just repeating the tripe that you hear on FOX News?

    So sad that someone of your mental acuity actually takes the time to comment on this site. .

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 1:36 pm on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Most of the Occupy protesters don't have a clue why or what they are protesting. A lot are paid, a lot are just there for the fun and party. Follow the money, who is paying these protesters? Some are unions, some are ACORN, some are paid by various Soros funded front alliances. As far as being compared to the Tea Party protests,BS. Tea Party protests have resulted in ZERO arrests and they clean up after themselves. These hooligans trash and burn and have resulted in 1600+ arrests. Their credibility of being a genuine cohesive group with a purpose is disappearing every day.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:27 am on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4306

    Daniel Hutchins wrote: "Occupy, a group whose origin I do not know, has come to my attention through casual conversation, especially as a result of news media coverage."

    Seriously, Daniel? I think you are being quite disingenuous with the content of this letter considering your past letters and comments.

    Do you actually deny that anarchy is your imagined purpose in life?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:37 am on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2689

    As Daniel Estulin writes, the “CFR has served as a virtual employment agency for the federal government under both Democrats and Republicans” and it will continue to do so despite the presence of the OWS on the “left” and the Tea Party on the “right,” as defined by the likes of the Washington Post, the crown jewel of the CIA’s Operation Mockingbird, a hugely successful effort by the elite to turn the media into an establishment safe propaganda megaphone.

    The Post is nudging the OWS into safe territory and this is only possible because most of its supporters and followers have taken the blue pill and continue to accept the establishment’s narrowly defined right-vs-left political formulations.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:18 am on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2740


    Daniel wrote:

    I refuse to believe that they are a random set of people who suddenly came together by a spontaneous but unknown force, which only affected specific people who came into the news.

    -Perhaps these people are masquerading as people who care about the economy all the while their true intentions are to promote the cannibas clubs given the stench of pot smoke that emanates from their camps and gatherings.

     
  • MARK TROVINGER posted at 7:54 am on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    MARK TROVINGER Posts: 204

    Mr. Hutchins you have written, "I remind people that the Declaration of Independence is one of the most important documents of history, and the U.S. Constitution is a good one, too. I recommend a solution which uses these documents."

    So what is your recommended solution? You haven't explained to anyone how the "use" of these documents would create any solution. What parts of these documents is it that you think holds the solution to this problem?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:15 am on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Oh... I forgot another clue... when MSNBC and the rest Obama's campaign team treated this protest with respect and admiration... and since Obama has no record to run on... one might consider this president needs a distraction to focus on to avoid talking about his record.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:09 am on Sat, Nov 5, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9403

    Daniel is so right... When Pelosi came out and publicly stated this was a spontaneous demonstration that should be admired and supported on the first day of supposed protests, it was obvious it was planned and orchestrated.

    When the same typical signs that SEIU used in union activity were used in the marches... it was obvious that the union and people who are members of the far left and democratic party were involved in this... what is the motive? ...that is still to be determined though I wouldn't be surprised if anti- tea party feelings were part of it.

    Then when former ACORN opperatives were discovered to be materially involved in the communities who organized all these protests, it was obvious that organizations who utilize professional organizers were a part of it....

    Hummm … what conclusion could a reasonable person draw. Lets see... Thats right!!! Obama by profession was a community organizer and for many years, worked directly with ACORN. He developed relationships with many organizers, unions and wealthy people like Soros who support this Wallstreet crowd.
    Obama is a democrat who used community organizers , the labor unions, activists in the journey to become president.

    Bush was always accused of not being able to connect the dots... Hopefully, the American people will not be guilty of the same accusation.

     

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