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Let’s get real about what kills

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Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 12:00 am

In 1945, on the island of Okinawa, the rifles were stacked in the Marine tent. I never saw one of those guns hurt anyone.

The Marines embarked on a raid on a cave that housed enemy soldiers. That evening, the rifles had killed all 17 of those enemy soldiers. The only thing those rifles needed was for those Marines to point them and pull the trigger.

Guns don't kill people; people kill people. Anyone who won't accept that just doesn't get it.

People are the problem, not the guns.

Let's get real. We are not going to get rid of the millions of guns that are in circulation in America. Let's fix the minds of the people that are causing the problem.

Sam West

Acampo

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Welcome to the discussion.

61 comments:

  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:35 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Taves: In just two sentences you defined the culture of politics and politicians. . Leadership...who are you willing to follow? THAT is the question. Good job

     
  • stan taves posted at 9:53 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Stan Taves Posts: 302

    The problem is not the gun; the problem is that the culture is deeply disturbed. It begins with leadership; so when our leaders are seen as lying snakes who will steal from tomorrow in order to satisfy a hunger that won't go away, then the culture begins to crawl like snakes, also. Can't see it? must be too close to the ground, eh?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:13 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Wally: Little Grasshopper...thank you for recognizing the damage that was done to my family during the recall (which was pushed by the teachers at Arcohe) that was not supported by 70% of the community. It WAS a terrible smear campaign. By the way you just gave away who you really are...I guess I will have to do a bit of digging on your background too.

    In my 14 year tenure I helped bring to the two districts over $80Million in additional funding through grants, hardship funds and bonds (Galt hadn't passed a bond in the 40 years prior)...Hmmmm

    So tell me wally what have you done lately to forward the education system here in CA???

    And wally...I will be angry every day they steal and education or an opportunity from a child.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 10:35 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1071

    Pat, only the angry...

    Organize and participate in recall drives and smear campaigns!!


    [beam]

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:44 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrwc: By your comments you must think the Board at Galt High is doing a good job...that they really care about the kid's educations. Can you elaborate on what you think they have done so well? Or are you like msbobbin and just like to disparage kids and the people who worked to help them to succeed?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:40 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Even more so today. Take a look at their test scores and where they are as far as getting out of the Program Improvement mess that they have gotten the District into. Last year their 4th year they met only 15 of the 22 requirements...they are not improving they are getting worse. Besides...they did dump the board.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 7:47 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1071


    "Dump the Board"

    Pat, whose angry??


    [lol]

     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 4:34 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    Not one man but all the U.S. government wants to control the people~! They have been forcing their (U.S. Government) will on other countries for over fifty years with many innocent people paying the price! The fact that someone hasn't attacked us (the twin towers just to name one instance) more is nothing short of amazing or patient which ever you prefer!

    This government (U.S.) have been riding rough shod over anyone and every thing they can for a very long time! Where I come from this is called bullying or maybe cowards!

    Those who trend on the weak are cowards, true men stand up for those weaker than themselves!

    How come the U.S. Government doesn't attack China or Russia? Because a bully will never fight anyone their size and preciously because they are COWARDS!

    I believe people's of all nations just want to live their lives peacefully and be able to provide for their own as best they can....

     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 4:11 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    You're right Sam, the don't get it and they won't ever get it because they are stupid!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:32 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    "Based on his posts and the personal history he has shared, it would seem that the abortion issue gives him an outlet for his anger at women."

    Exactly!

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 7:53 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Lodi 1970 Posts: 85

    You are absolutely right-on (and well said, I might add) about the 1st amendment and our rights in general; rights are relative, not absolute. That is why the 2nd amendment should be subject to regulation as well. And, if a particular administration or Congress (or State for that matter) goes too far, then that is where the Judicial Branch steps in. The Supreme Court as recently as 2010 shot down a handgun ban in Chicago. I agree that gun control is not the only answer to the violence, but I believe it is a start. Other issues must be addressed, particularly mental health, but gun control seems reasonable to me as part of the solution (if there can be a solution.) As for the 22nd amendment, I'm quite sure Obama will be limited to two terms. Again, the Judicial System (or impeachment process) would step in to prevent the establishment of any sort of dictatorship in our republic.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 6:07 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2320

    It all depends on what the definition of "control" is. As with our freedom of speech, it's well settled that with that right comes a certain level of responsibility - for instance we should all know that screaming "fire" in a movie theater that is not burning is not protected under the First Amendment. In fact, while we are certainly free to say anything we want, the consequences of such speech can be severe.

    On the other hand, to think that this administration doesn't want to outlaw certain weapons altogether would be ridiculous. Of course Obama wants to "get the guns," just as does the mayor of New York City. There's where the Second Amendment will most certainly trump any president and however many Executive Orders he might decide to issue that would go far beyond "control" to outright outlawing them.

    I also find it laughable that one of the things they want to do is to limit the number of rounds in a weapon's clip (or whatever the device is called) to ten. Just how would that make such a weapon any less harmful in the hands of someone who knows how to swiftly drop one clip and replace it with another?

    Gun control or outlawing them is not the answer to the violence - and Obama, the rest of his administration, Congress and anyone with half a brain understand this. This is just one man who wants to gain control over a nation. This has happened before elsewhere around the globe. Funny how history repeats itself while the masses fall into line. Once the Second Amendment drops, just watch what happens to the Twenty-Second.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:27 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1307

    [thumbup]

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 7:28 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Lodi 1970 Posts: 85

    Pat & Will,
    Gentlemen, you are absolutely correct about the Supreme Court's interpretation of the 2nd amendment, and I thank you for your comments; after re-reading my comment, I can see that I need to do some clarification. I was by no means suggesting that the Constitutional guarantee to bear arms did not exist. I was simply responding to the anti-gun control arguments that use the 2nd amendment and the Framers' intent to advocate that any gun control measures are a violation of an indiidual's rights. That is simply not the case. When one addresses history incorrectly, I think it is important to set the record straight. Personally, I support an individual's right to bear arms (as does the Supreme Court) but I also support gun control (as does the Supreme Court.) The 2nd Amendment and gun control are not mutually exclusive.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 6:59 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 244

    The vast majority of Americans, indeed the vast majority of NRA members recently polled, support the kind of gun control measures announced by the president this week. Those posting their opposition here are far, far from the mainstream.

    Mr. Kinderman's obsession with abortion has little to do with killing, religion, or morality. The Hebrew god of the bible does not value the unborn as fully human and does not consider the "killing" of an embryo or fetus to be murder. Based on his posts and the personal history he has shared, it would seem that the abortion issue gives him an outlet for his anger at women.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 11:25 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1307

    Mr Rainwater said "You can`t really expect to be able to fully enjoy the 1st Amendment without having the 2nd Amendment to back it up." How in the world is the 2nd amendment necessary to exercise the 1st. How is posting in this online forum (freedom of speech) only enabled at gun point. Was this a slogan you heard somewher? Or did you just make it up? It really doesn't make much sense.

    MR Kinderman continues to validate my assertion of his obsession with the unborn will evolve from any topic of discussion. His emotional hysteria is made evident by his dismissive remarks about real children riddled with bullits at a school shooting as an "insane" concern as compared to terminated fetus's.


    there is a real problem with guns in this country and there is a valued heritage of gun ownership. You can't say dealing with the problem undermines that long heritage. Saying nothing can be done is simply unacceptable. To assume doing something equates to taking away ALL guns or a total repeal of the 2nd amendment is an attempt to alarm unrealisticly and bring to submission any effort to finally address a long standing problem. To throw our hands up (again) and say nothing can be done fails to understand our history when it was said somethings impossible. To build the Panama canal was deemed impossible before an ingenious solution changed the mindset. The disingenuous argument that there are thousands of laws on the books regulating guns doesn't take into consideration that a few of those laws restrict ATFs ability to do their job of enforcing laws. NRA lobbying and the Patriot Act have been successful in tying the hands of law enforcement so that these many existing laws are impotent. All in the name of gun manufacturers protection racket. So there are some things to do that puts this issue in the realm of possibilities.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 6:55 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2947

    Here's another short video for those with minds of mush... [sleeping]

    http://youtu.be/0nM0asnCXD0

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 6:53 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2947

    Your inability to answer one simple question is ridiculous. [sleeping]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:37 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1071

    Amazing!

    The most vocal "pro gun rights" guys commenting here...

    Don't own any guns.

    ??


    [shock]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:37 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1071

    Amazing!

    The most vocal "anti GLBT float" guys commenting here...

    Don't attend any Christmas parades.

    ??


    [shock]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:36 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1071

    What's wrong with this picture??


    [huh]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 5:29 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    There is a Constitutional amendment that allows people to wear "wife beater" T-shirts and other sleeveless wear?

    If you can't spell "bear arms," you shouldn't be able to.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:39 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Murder isn't in the finger...it is in the mind...like any other action we take.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:39 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    JK: Good analogy (did I speelll taht rghit mbs?) on the 1st and 2nd rights.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:37 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Wathc otu Anrdwe! Teh sellp cechk poilec aer otu in frcoe tdoay!!! bsm I meen.

     
  • Will Rainwater posted at 2:38 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Will Rainwater Posts: 42

    Sorry Christina, The Supreme Court Has already decided that the 2nd Amendment does indeed guarantee the rights of citizens to keep and bare arms.

     
  • Will Rainwater posted at 1:56 pm on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Will Rainwater Posts: 42

    You can`t really expect to be able to fully enjoy the 1st Amendment without having the 2nd Amendment to back it up.

     
  • Christina Welch posted at 11:56 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Lodi 1970 Posts: 85

    Historically, the second amendment was added to the Constitution to protect the right of each State to keep a militia, to preserve the concept of the citizen-soldier during our Early National period. It was not intended as an individual right; it was more of a states' right issue, if anything (at a time when the issue of the proper scope of governmental power was hotly contested by Federalists and Antifederalists.) To compare the second amendment with the first is not historically accurate. Today the National Guard serves as our militia, so the need for citizens to act in our State's defense is not necessary. Gun control laws do not infringe upon the second amendment when one considers the historic context and intent.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:14 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    How many did GW Bush exterminate as colateral damage when he invaded Afghanistan and Iraq?

    Clinton - Somalia, Bosnia.

    Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon exterminated South East Asian children during the Vietnam war.

    Holocaust is not colateral damage. It is the determination of a mad man.

    Your comments are ridiculous and make it sound like you support Hitler's actions. Maybe you do.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:05 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    OFF TOPIC!!!!

    And for the third time - many women do not CHOOSE abortion. They are FORCED to have one.

    Perhaps a visit for a heart to heart with your pastor or spiritual leader is in order to settle these misogynistic issues.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 10:04 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1444

    Jerome it appears you are still trying to change the subject if Roe v Wade was thrown out today I don't see how that would affect gun violence tomorrow try to stay on topic we are discussing gun control the letter does not mention abortion or wiretapping save those arguments for another day they are not relevant.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:49 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2320

    Sorry, but wiretapping, mental illness, abortion or a plethora of other matters can easily play into the real issue here: the destruction of the U.S. Constitution.

    For example, right now in order to be deemed unsuitable to legally own a firearm, a certified physician must make the determination that one cannot handle the responsibilities of firearm ownership due to mental instability. I'm sure that with all the hysteria going around in our politicians' heads it will be the government through “ObamaCare” who will make that determination.

    What surprises me is how Americans (and our politicians) are so fixated on the volume of people who are killed by what they believe to be unsuitable or "unnecessary" weapons rather than just the "one" among so many who are killed every day. One, two, three people killed by one person with a single-action hand-gun makes little difference. It's those big, ugly rifles with their heavy-duty clips (or whatever the actual term is) that get them riled up. Such an odd thing.

    I had always thought the liberals were for the weak and down-trodden among us. And here they are rightfully mourning for the twenty children who were gunned down by who might have been a mentally unstable man with guns owned by his own mother. But for the 1.2 million human lives lost every year to abortion they weep for whom? . . . the victims’ own mothers' right to choose to kill them. Very strange indeed. In fact, THAT's insane!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:07 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    OFF TOPIC!!! This comment should be deleted.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:53 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2947

    How many muslim children has this man exterminated Ms. Bobin?

    [sleeping]... http://youtu.be/DrxUBMlCyiE

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:39 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1444

    Stop trying to muddy the water we are not talking about warrantless wiretapping, mental illness or abortion we are talking about sensible gun control. We can discuss those topics on their own merits but they have nothing to do with gun control.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:38 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    Thanks for repeating what hundreds of extreme right-wing websites are saying and quoting - got over one hundred CURRENT hits on this opinion and quote. BTW, you mispelled "perceived." Or Hitler did.

    What you neglect to mention with your selective comments is that ONLY CERTAIN children were valued by Hitler since he exterminated over 1.5 million Jewish children. Kind of invalidates the quote now doesn't it?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:30 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    "what I DO own is the RIGHT to own one. They speak for me and millions of others who want to retain that right."

    No you don't. If you don't pass a background check you cannot legally possess a firearm. Considering many vulgar comments made in this forum, I'd be surprised if this person qualifies.

    "Oh that's right - so now you'll have to prove you're not nuts in order to exercise one's Second Amendment right to possess a firearm. And naturally it will be up to Mr. Obama as to just what kind of gun you’ll be able to possess. Yeah, that's freedom turned on its ear. Welcome to what used to be America."

    Apparently, Mr. Kinderman just woke up four years ago when a black socialist took office. You do have to prove you're not nuts and pass a background check. That's been the law for a long time. AND we've already had bans on certain weapons - laws that Obama had nothing to do with, so stop already with the garbage about Obama destroying America's freedoms.

    And enough about abortion - OFF TOPIC.

    Noticed Mr. Kinderman's silence after disproving that ONLY women control that option, but that won't stop his continued misogynistic comments.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 6:16 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2320

    The “musket” logic doesn’t hold water. Compare that to the First Amendment regarding speech. The Founder’s could never envisioned the telephone, yet the Supreme Court has held that what we say using it is protected. Advancements in technology shouldn’t make a difference here either. Nice try though.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:01 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1307

    Second amendment rights were based on muskets. What kind of weapon sings of freedom for you? Mental fitness can be determined in many ways. It may be a class, testing on a range, a test to be licensed, any number of ways. We haven't invested in mental health to the degree we need to for a host of things not just gun handleing. Are you concerned about being able to prove mental stability?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:54 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2947

    [sleeping] WRONG!

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:52 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2947

    Remember this when you see Obama using children as props today. [sleeping]

    "The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is percieved as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."

    -Mein Kampf Adolf Hitler

     
  • daniel hutchins posted at 12:48 am on Wed, Jan 16, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1338

    Sam,
    In Washington, it's not about whether they will kill anyone or not, excepting that they cannot control America if the people possess a weapon.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:42 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2320

    1.2 million kills per year is hardly hysterical imagination - it's a cold hard fact. I don't make this stuff up. And these deaths aren't related to guns in any way, shape or form.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:39 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2320

    Oh that's right - so now you'll have to prove you're not nuts in order to exercise one's Second Amendment right to possess a firearm. And naturally it will be up to Mr. Obama as to just what kind of gun you’ll be able to possess. Yeah, that's freedom turned on its ear. Welcome to what used to be America.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:13 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1307

    Good point Kevin.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:11 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1307

    [thumbup] Good post Eric

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:09 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1307

    Obamacare will now have mental health coverage

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:08 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1307

    [sleeping]
    "modified Hoovers and Electroluxes" ?
    Hysterical imagination is still in control here
    [yawn]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 10:02 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1307

    MR Kinderman says "Guns are simply inanimate objects like lampposts. A gun sitting by itself all alone on a park bench has as much ability to kill or hurt anyone as a car parked in a garage."
    No it has more ability.
    As much as some try to paint a picture of a firearm as benign as a rock it has an inate nature to be deadly. The gun collector is the first to realize the allure and empowerment the weapon bequeaths on the wielder. Lay that gun on a park bench and its a magnet to many who just want to hold it, maybe imagine some possibilities they didn't have prior to picking it up. Maybe one shot to just try it, perhaps at a tree. Maybe stand and hold it in a way you saw an actor on TV hold it. It is quite powerful and can never be equaled by a lamp post or even a car. To be deadly with a car puts you in peril as well. Of course if there is a child near the gun the magic is even greater and the attraction is irresistible. The empowering nature of the gun to make you feel invincible makes the gun not a mere inanimate object and comparable to a hammer or monkey wrench but an instant enhancement to the holders station lin life. Able to keep at bay any threats that can be imagined. And the idea that if more guns are brought to the bench it increases your safety is simply logic turned on its head.

    And the lame idea that the best thing against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, hasn't realized that no one considers themselves a bad guy.

    If the good guy shoots an innocent bystander his claim to good guy may turn. If a perceived bad guy has a gun but doesn't use it and instead a good guy shots a bystander aiming at the believed bad guy and the bad guy rushes the victum to the hospital and saves the life all tables are now topsey turvey. Like beauty, good guy is in the eyes of the beholder.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 8:52 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1071

    "broken record"

    [thumbdown]

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:42 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2320

    But since we're on the subject of killing (notice I didn't use the term "murder" because I really do hope to assuage the irritation of my friends on the liberal fringe), we know of 40 million humans that have been killed - and not ONE from a gun. How in the world is that possible?

    Well, it's amazing what people can actually do with modified Hoovers and Electroluxes. It proves that virtually any seemingly innocent and innocuous device can be turned into a weapon of mass destruction. And to think we were searching in Iraq for all those years!

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:25 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2320

    Mr. West suggests: "Let's fix the minds of the people that are causing the problem."

    Just how can we accomplish that?

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 6:42 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2320

    Of course people kill people and other living things. Guns are simply inanimate objects like lampposts. A gun sitting by itself all alone on a park bench has as much ability to kill or hurt anyone as a car parked in a garage. It takes a human being behind the wheel or trigger to make it a weapon.

    In spite of anything this administration does there will be other killings - there's no stopping it. Why? Because no one can accurately predict who might decide to wake up one day and head to the nearest school, movie theater or mall to go on a rampage. What's going on in Washington D.C. right now just as what happened in New York State is nothing but show boating. The president is just counting on a whole lot of "oohing" and "aahing" over his feigned compassion for the American people. And even if he did care (which he most certainly does not), neither this nor any other president has the power to do anything about it.

    This is all so very silly - and a complete waste of time, money and energy. Frankly, I'd rather be watching Gilligan's Island reruns instead of Congress's "Big Show." The next thing on the horizon will be another epic film by Michael Moore with "the" solution to the murder problem in the United States.

    Does anyone really believe that ripping apart the United States Constitution will save one life? “The” big event of 1973 proves that fallacy.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:10 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    Meaning?

    If anyone wants to go down the "cars, smoking, alcohol, etc. kills" road, consider that just being alive holds a bigger likelihood of dying than anything else.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:05 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    There's a big difference between "illegal" and "heaviliy regulated."

    It is possible for an "average citizen" to apply for a license and purchase one - they just have to be determined.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:03 pm on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4485

    The NRA does not exist to represent gun owners - only gun manufacturers.

     
  • Jason Wilkins posted at 10:56 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Jason Wilkins Posts: 32

    Meanwhile, cigaretts are legal and cause the deaths of 40,000+ NON SMOKERS every year in America according to CDC. 400,000 people are affected with tobacco related illness and death in America annually due to tobacco.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:44 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1444

    I've never heard of a person shooting another person without a gun so don't try that people kill people crap. Guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns. 70 percent of NRA members agree to some measure of gun control. There are about 5 million NRA members so there are 1.5 million people, in this country of over 300 million, who are attempting to derail the gun control debate.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:09 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2947

    Mr. Paglia, Yourself and many others these days are arguing emotion over fact. [rolleyes]

    The term "assault weapon" is specifically designed to conjure images of military machine guns, but for those totally unfamiliar with firearms, it should be made clear that automatic weapons (those that fire more than one bullet with each pull of the trigger) are ALREADY ILLEGAL for the average citizen to own. They are heavily regulated by the federal government, registered with the ATF and very difficult to obtain class III licenses for. .
    [sleeping]

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 7:03 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1904

    I am not against guns. I fully support people's right to have guns for hunting, protection and peace of mind, if needed. BUT we do not need high volume clips or assault/full automatic rifles unless you plan ("Plan" as in to be WILLING to use) them against fellow human beings.

    That said if a person wants to cause mass deaths and casualties then a gun makes a splash but there are plenty of other options for them.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 6:53 am on Tue, Jan 15, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1904

    People may kill people, but guns make them more efficient at it.

     

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Posted 1 hour ago by Thomas Heuer.

article: Letter: Questions for Obama supporters

Oh Ed Who said mans best friend can't get smarter than their master? They'll also sleep sounder with the good news. [wink]

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Posted 2 hours ago by Will Rainwater.

article: Letter: Questions for Obama supporters

Obama is a "community organizer", which means he has NEVER had a real job or met a payroll. He has given up actually negotiating …

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Posted 2 hours ago by Thomas Heuer.

article: Letter: Questions for Obama supporters

I answered it. WHO SAYS ANYBODY IS NOT AWARE?

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Posted 3 hours ago by Ed Walters.

article: Letter: Questions for Obama supporters

Liebich: Your right, sorry about that, but $16 trillion was last months count. Difficult to keep up. The debt clock looks like a car go…

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