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President Obama did not help the people of Detroit with bailout

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Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 6:08 am, Tue Sep 18, 2012.

At the Democratic convention, I think Obama was given credit for General Motors' recovery. Was there not a bailout with taxpayers' money? Do the taxpayers not deserve credit? What did Obama do?

As a result of taxpayer bailout from the U.S. Treasury, under Obama's leadership, are not 70 percent of General Motors vehicles manufactured outside of the United States? How does this benefit America?

I wonder how well the people of Detroit are feeling the effects of Obama's "rescue" of General Motors, and I wonder how well they enjoyed the conventions.

Daniel Hutchins

Acampo

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Welcome to the discussion.

29 comments:

  • Mike Adams posted at 10:06 am on Sun, Sep 23, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1399

    Now re-plagiarism!!!!!!

    Repeated nonsensical babblilngs!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:03 pm on Fri, Sep 21, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    "It was an opinion of mine, I was not stating I have documented proof

    Yes Walter, this is a forum to express opinion. You personally just expressed your
    "OPINION" that Opinion not truth...That's your normal modus operandi
    .
    Im glad you expressed your opinion. You have a keen sense for the obvious.


    As Mr Chang wisely stated, All opinion all the time. Nothing new here folks!!!

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:00 pm on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Walter, I am taking a break from commenting for awhile but your ability to get to the core of the matter in so few words has to be applauded [thumbup]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 4:43 pm on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1125

    "It was an opinion of mine, I was not stating I have documented proof"

    Opinion not fact!

    Opinion not truth!

    That's your normal modus operandi.

    All opinion all the time. Nothing new here folks!!!


    [tongue]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:31 pm on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    or the CO2 carbonated aspartame laced beverages she so obviously consumes... [sleeping]

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:57 pm on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...I know that if I behaved in this manner and was confronted I know what I would do. I would verify that I called someone a liar and was wrong. I would then get on this blog and make a public apology. This is called integrity

    Mr Lucas inferred I was an adulterer and a pedophile, has called me an idiot, brainless, moron, liar and just about every name in the book,.. has implied that I should be medicated and in a mental institute and implied that I am basic the scum of the earth and then stated the above...

    I personally do not believe anything you say. Are you saying I should substantiate all things you say?

    If I were a religious man, I would say.. Jesus, forgive him as he knows not what he has done. ( or is doing).

    Are you serious? You perceive that because I perceive you tell fables that I should owe you an apology? I cannot substantiate everything you state. It was an opinion of mine, I was not stating I have documented proof.

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 12:27 pm on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    Is a "far right wing-nut" the same as saying, "someone with whom I disagree ?"

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 11:16 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    The primary reason why I choose to use diesel power over gas is because it has the benefit of both using less fuel per mile, and also making less CO2, or carbon dioxide than gas engines and it has enough power to traverse any mountains I have encountered. My diesel rig has Cummins clean diesel technology which making it as clean as any gas rig on the road. I am wondering if Ms. Bobin also concerned about the emissions spewing out of the trains (diesel electric), and diesel trucks that deliver the products she buys off of the store shelves.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:40 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    if, in someones opinion, they perceive one is telling a lie, what should be said? I have been called a liar 100's of times on this forum... I am very confused as to why Mr Lucas perceives damages could possibly result from someone expressing an opinion that someone else is not telling the truth.
    That seems to be posted frequently... personally, I am n more offended at someone questioning one's intelligence than their honesty... but that is my cup of tea...

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:39 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Barack Obama And Mitt Romney Are Essentially The Same Candidate Ms. Bobin. One of the many realities you choose to ignore...

    Those that are dreaming of a major change in direction if Romney is elected are going to be bitterly, bitterly disappointed.

    The following are 40 ways that Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are essentially the same candidate….

    1. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both supported TARP.

    2. Mitt Romney supported Barack Obama’s “economic stimulus” packages.

    3. Mitt Romney says that Barack Obama’s bailout of the auto industry was actually his idea.

    4. Neither candidate supports immediately balancing the federal budget.

    5. They both believe in big government and they both have a track record of being big spenders while in office.

    6. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both fully support the Federal Reserve.

    7. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are both on record as saying that the president should not question the “independence” of the Federal Reserve.

    8. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have both said that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke did a good job during the last financial crisis.

    9. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both felt that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke deserved to be renominated to a second term.

    10. Both candidates oppose a full audit of the Federal Reserve.

    11. Both candidates are on record as saying that U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has done a good job.

    12. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have both been big promoters of universal health care.

    13. Mitt Romney was the one who developed the plan that Obamacare was later based upon.

    14. Wall Street absolutely showers both candidates with campaign contributions.

    15. Neither candidate wants to eliminate the income tax or the IRS.

    16. Both candidates want to keep personal income tax rates at the exact same levels for the vast majority of Americans.

    17. Both candidates are “open” to the idea of imposing a Value Added Tax on the American people.

    18. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both believe that the TSA is doing a great job.

    19. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both supported the NDAA.

    20. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both supported the renewal of the Patriot Act.

    21. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both believe that the federal government should be able to indefinitely detain American citizens that are considered to be terrorists.

    22. Both candidates believe that American citizens suspected of being terrorists can be killed by the president without a trial.

    23. Barack Obama has not closed Guantanamo Bay like he promised to do, and Mitt Romney actually wants to double the number of prisoners held there.

    24. Both candidates support the practice of “extraordinary rendition”.

    25. They both support the job-killing “free trade” agenda of the global elite.

    26. They both accuse each other of shipping jobs out of the country and both of them are right.

    27. Both candidates are extremely soft on illegal immigration.

    28. Neither candidate has any military experience. This is the first time that this has happened in a U.S. election since 1944.

    29. Both candidates earned a degree from Harvard University.

    30. They both believe in the theory of man-made global warming.

    31. Mitt Romney has said that he will support a “cap and trade” carbon tax scheme (like the one Barack Obama wants) as longas the entire globe goes along with it.

    32. Both candidates have a very long record of supporting strict gun control measures.

    33. Both candidates have been pro-abortion most of their careers. Mitt Romney’s “conversion” to the pro-life cause has been questioned by many. In fact, Mitt Romney has made millions on Bain Capital’s investment in a company called “Stericycle” that incinerates aborted babies collected from family planning clinics.

    34. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both believe that the Boy Scout ban on openly gay troop leaders is wrong.

    35. They both believe that a “two state solution” will bring lasting peace between the Palestinians and Israel.

    36. Both candidates have a history of nominating extremely liberal judges.

    37. Like Barack Obama, Mitt Romney also plans to add “signing statements” to bills when he signs them into law.

    38. They both have a horrible record when it comes to job creation.

    39. Both candidates believe that the president has the power to take the country to war without getting the approval of the U.S. Congress.

    40. Both candidates plan to continue running up more government debt even though the U.S. government is already 16 trillion dollars in debt.


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:27 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I always thought Mr Chang was very intelligent... but that he was only using the left side of his brain..

    Proof that I use the left side of my brain is that I have the ability to understand Mr Chang very well.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:24 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin stated...I think one of the most telling things about the constant barrage of anti-Obama letters

    I have not seen one post showing Anti Obama anything... I have seen letters that articulate how Obama's "POLICIES" and leadership skills are bad for our country.

    I think Obama has a good heart and is a decent human being; great smile and has much better acting skills that Reagan ever had... so every one is pro Obama. However, conservatives do not appreciate his vision of America.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:56 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    I think one of the most telling things about the constant barrage of anti-Obama letters from the far right wingnuts is that there is not a SINGLE letter that I have seen that is PRO Romney.

    You would think that if Romney was such a catch, his "supporters" would be out there singing his praises.

    I think this proves that, while they all hate Obama, there is nothing positive to say about the other guy.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:32 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "Exactly why my l last purchase was a 2012 FORD Escape Hybrid. No taxpayer bailout money. I also changed banks because of government takeover."

    Which he hauls around on the back of his gas-hogging, polluting RV, further putting a strain on the 5 miles per gallon he gets without the hybrid.

    I'll bet the additional gas and pollution more than cancel out the benefits of that hybrid.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:06 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    I wonder if Mr. Lucas was at Lodi's Chevron purchasing more aspartame laced beverages in order to perpetuate his libtardedness? [lol]

    What a dolt!

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 7:28 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Ha ha, a lawsuit, that's funny. Sue away you idiot. YOUR comments are about as vulgar as they come. I have plenty of stuff you have posted also. See you in court. I hope you can afford it.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 5:56 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    [offtopic][thumbdown]

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 5:55 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Ahhh, Mr. Chang. I always knew somewhere tucked inside your liberal brain there was a spark of intelligence. I bought Ford stock when it was cheaper than a Big Mac special.
    Meanwhhile GM marches towards yet another bankruptcy. Kind of reminds me the time the governent took control of the brothel in Nevada because of delinquent taxes. It went broke.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:18 am on Wed, Sep 19, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I was making screenshots of the comments that were made on the letter by Mr Portal in preparation of a lawsuit I am going to bring against Mr. Chapman for a comment he made when I came across the following comment by you that I had missed:

    I was in a gas station food store with three young men in their early 20's and they saw my Obama t-shirt. One said"you gonna vote for the ni--er/
Clearly, Mr Lucas is telling fables that enflame passions in order to deflect the criticism off himself for letting it slip out how much disrespect he has for women... 
I wonder what kind of Tee shirt you were wearing in Bangkok... .

    this was in response to this comment by me:

    I was in a gas station food store with three young men in their early 20's and they saw my Obama t-shirt. One said"you gonna vote for the ni--er/" About 15 seconds later he was reminding me they had a video camera in there. I was not a happy camper and I was in his face asking him to repeat what he said. I bought my stuff and left as they decided they did not want any part of me. This happened in Lodi.


    I was responding to the comment you made to Joanne

    Yes.. and were you serious about saying in Lodi, there are bigots around every corner? I personally did not take that litterally... imagine we we did. The population in Lodi would increase by 100k

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This is the key phase where you called me a liar:

    Mr Lucas is telling fables that enflame passions in order to deflect the criticism off himself for letting it slip out how much disrespect he has for women... 
I wonder what kind of Tee shirt you were wearing in Bangkok... .

    The chevron store on the corner of Ham Lane and Kettleman was where the incident occurred. The clerk who witnessed it works Monday thru Saturday from midnight till 7 in the morning. What happened can be easily verified.

    I know what you will do with this information. Nothing

    I know that if I behaved in this manner and was confronted I know what I would do. I would verify that I called someone a liar and was wrong. I would then get on this blog and make a public apology. This is called integrity.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:47 pm on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Robert, great choice... I too bought Ford , will not buy GM evenif it is half price.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:46 pm on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1125

    I bought Ford stock!

    [beam]

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 5:59 pm on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    Exactly why my l last purchase was a 2012 FORD Escape Hybrid. No taxpayer bailout money. I also changed banks because of government takeover.

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 8:33 am on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 470

    @Mike- how refreshing to have a civil conversation between 2 people that do not always agree! That is what America is all about! We all are on information overload, but I for one, am thankful for the ability to go online and find factual information. I try very hard to sift my sources so as not to be slighted too far either way. Right or left- there is hyperbole on each side and we have to just try to process it and share what we learn. Too often we are pitted aginst each other from both sides. This is not right or left, dem or Rep..it is making choices that are going to benefit this country's existence- not just for today, but for 50, 100,200 years from now. You do not hear either side talking about America like it will even exist past 2 years and we have to change that way of thinking. We have to think long term and what is sustainable. Compassion for our citizens, yet a system that is going to encourage healthy competition and a desire to succeed and produce. Man is not cut out for socialism and collectivism. We are purpose driven and competitive. But that is just my humble opinion.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 8:19 am on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1399

    Kim, Feel free to cut and paste. The difference between you cutting and pastine and another serial plagiarist, is that you are telling us from the beginning that what follows may not be entirely your own. It's a much better perspective and is not plagiarism.

    I rarely agree with what you post, but your posts are usually quite good. I think you are like me, sponging up information from many sources continually, assimilating them into coherent passages. You can't cite specific statements because they come to you from all over the place.

    Looking foreward to more.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:15 am on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Last I looked, the bailout cost taxpayers $37 billion. GM has had struggles dating back at least 20 years. With Detroit being the proving ground for government subsidies look what proof we have of the effectiveness of it.

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 8:06 am on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 470

    Mr. Lucas says "The President is an overwhelming favorite to win Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and other states that were affected by the saving of the industry and the employment it provides"
    However in a recent New York Times article we see "Ohio and Missouri are traditionally important swing states. But in St. Charles County, where Wentzville is (GM Plant) , it’s not Mr. Obama but his Republican opponent, Mitt Romney, who is predicted to win by a large margin. In heavily Democratic Lordstown, Mr. Obama is expected to prevail, but Mr. Romney is likely to carry two neighboring counties that also benefit from G.M.’s success"

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:05 am on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999


    Here’s the truth:
    What Romney proposed for Detroit was more or less what Obama did.

    Romney’s plan for GM and Chrysler, articulated in his November 2008 op-ed headlined “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt” rested on this argument: “A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs.”

    Do you know what Obama did in the Detroit bailout he’s touting so much these days? A managed bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler.

    General Motors filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection as part of the Obama administration’s plan to shrink the automaker to a sustainable size and give a majority ownership stake to the federal government.

    And here is Chrysler’s actual bankruptcy filing from April 30, 2009.

    http://documents.nytimes.com/chrysler-bankruptcy-filing#p=1

    So, to recap:
    •Romney called for bankruptcy, and Obama delivered bankruptcy.
    •Romney called for saving the companies from extinction, and Obama saved the companies from extinction.
    •Romney called for forcing shareholders and bondholders to take a bath, and Obama made shareholders and bondholders take a bath.
    •Romney called for federal loan guarantees for the automakers, and Obama provided loan guarantees, direct loans, and equity investments.

    So the difference is that Obama wanted more direct federal aide, but both guys wanted government aid and structured bankruptcy to save the companies.

    Still, Democrats, speaking from Obama’s playbook, will keep attacking Romney for proposing mostly what Obama did.

     
  • Kim Parigoris posted at 7:54 am on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 470

    Allow me to cut and paste- if they are facts, why not? "Obama talks about the auto bailout frequently, because it’s one of the few things in his record that gets positive responses in the polls. But he’s probably wise to avoid probing questions, since the GM bailout is not at all the success he claims.
    GM has been selling cars in the U.S. at deep discount, and while it’s making money in China — and is outsourcing operations there and elsewhere — it’s bleeding losses in Europe. It’s spending billions to ditch its Opel brand there in favor of Chevrolet, including $559 million to put the Chevy logo on Manchester United soccer-team uniforms — and it just fired the marketing exec who cut that deal.
    It botched the launch of its new Chevrolet Malibu by starting with the green-friendly Eco version, which pleased its government shareholders even though the car got lousy reviews. And it’s selling only about 10,000 electric-powered Chevy Volts a year, a puny contribution toward Obama’s goal of one million electric vehicles on the road by 2015.
    “GM is going from bad to worse,” reads the headline on the analysis of Automotive News’s editor in chief, Keith Crain. That’s certainly true of its stock price.
    The government still owns 500 million shares of GM, 26 percent of the total. It needs to sell them for $53 a share to recover its $49.5 billion bailout. But the stock price is around $20 a share, and the Treasury now estimates that the government will lose more than $25 billion if and when it sells.
    That’s in addition to the revenue lost when the Obama administration permitted GM to continue to deduct previous losses from current profits, even though such deductions are ordinarily wiped out in bankruptcy proceedings.
    It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that GM is bleeding money because of decisions made by a management eager to please its political masters — and by the terms of the bankruptcy arranged by Obama car czars Ron Bloom and Steven Rattner.
    Rattner himself admitted late last year, in a speech to the Detroit Economic Club: “We should have asked the UAW [United Auto Workers union] to do a bit more. We did not ask any UAW member to take a cut in their pay.” Non-union employees of GM spin-off Delphi lost their pensions. UAW members didn’t.
    The UAW got their political payoff. And GM, according to Forbes writer Louis Woodhill, is headed to bankruptcy again.
    Is this really what Obama wants to do for all manufacturing across America? Let’s hope not.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:39 am on Tue, Sep 18, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Interesting contradictions in Mr Hutchins letter. First he said that Obama was given credit for General Motors recovery at the Democratic Convention. He then says do not the taxpayers deserve the credit? He asks what did Obama do?

    The President job is to provide leadership. That is what we hire him for. He looked at the alternatives and decided not to let the auto industry die as Mr Romney and the Republicans (and apparently Mr Hutchins) wanted to do. As a result millions of auto industry jobs were saved as Mr Hutchins admits. Who knows how many jobs related to the industry were saved also.

    He then wonders how well the people of Detroit are feeling the effects of Obama's "rescue" of General Motors, and I wonder how well they enjoyed the conventions. The President is an overwhelming favorite to win Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and other states that were affected by the saving of the industry and the employment it provides. Those people going to work this morning in this industry probably feel pretty good for they take pride in working and the opportunity to provide for their families.

     

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