Lodinews.com

default avatar
Welcome to the site! Login or Signup below.
|
||
Logout|My Dashboard

Letter: We need to get back to building a strong economy

Print
Font Size:
Default font size
Larger font size

Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 12:00 am

We have a party that does not want to extend unemployment benefits because, as Ronald Reagan said, “Unemployment insurance is prepaid vacation for freeloaders.” Meanwhile in Madera the unemployment rate is near 14 percent.

In has been 40 years since Ronald Reagan introduced “supply side economics,” which is just another name for “trickle-down economics.” We have watched the ultra-wealthy’s share of the national income go from 8 percent to 23 percent. We have a situation where the top 400 wealthy families have more wealth than the bottom 150 million people in our country. We have seen a situation where a vulture capitalist like Mitt Romney pays 14 percent in taxes on $20 million while a small businessman having an adjusted net income of $100,000 pays 50 percent.

The hollowing out of the middle class has been devastating, as have the effects on the poor. This is a worldwide phenomenon.

Most people just do not get what is happening. Then an international figure speaks out and is immediately called a Marxist by Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.

This is what Pope Francis said: “Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world.”

Francis wrote in the papal statement: “This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naive trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system.”

“Meanwhile,” he added, “the excluded are still waiting.”

We are at the crossroads. We can continue to elect Republicans whose only real job seems to protect the interests of the uber-wealthy, or we can come together and get back to economic policies that built the greatest middle class the world has ever known.

Frankly, I fear for the Pope’s safety. Men who stand up against the plutocracy put themselves at risk. The Kennedys, Martin Luther King Jr. and Archbishop Oscar Romero of El Salvador are just a few examples. I, for one, will pray for the Pope’s safety.

John Lucas

Lodi

Rules of Conduct

  • 1 Use your real name. You must register with your full first and last name before you can comment. (And don’t pretend you’re someone else.)
  • 2 Keep it clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually oriented language.
  • 3 Don’t threaten. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated.
  • 4 Be truthful. Don't lie about anyone or anything. Don't post unsubstantiated allegations, rumors or gossip that could harm the reputation of a person, company or organization.
  • 5 Be nice. No racism, sexism or any sort of -ism that is degrading to another person.
  • 6 Stay on topic. Make sure your comments are about the story. Don’t insult each other.
  • 7 Tell us if the discussion is getting out of hand. Use the ‘Report’ link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.
  • 8 Share what you know, and ask about what you don't.
  • 9 Don’t be a troll.
  • 10 Don’t reveal personal information about other commenters. You may reveal your own personal information, but we advise you not to do so.
  • 11 We reserve the right, at our discretion, to monitor, delete or choose not to post any comment. This may include removing or monitoring posts that we believe violate the spirit or letter of these rules, or that we otherwise determine at our discretion needs to be monitored, not posted, or deleted.

Welcome to the discussion.

92 comments:

  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:32 pm on Mon, Dec 16, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Treacy Elliott,
    Ask and you shall receive:
    http://news.investors.com/politics-andrew-malcolm/121213-682679-unemployment-remains-high-official-rate-falls-on-labor-force.htm
    From an investment pulication, not a conservative site. Read it and weep.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:59 pm on Mon, Dec 16, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1490

    Not a fantasy world but a world that has seen the Dow break 16000, a world where unemployment has dropped to pre Obama levels, a world where we have seen an average of 195,000 jobs created per month for the last 12 months, a world where Mark Zandi the chief economist at Moody's is quoted as saying “the economy is gaining traction.” and most important a world where even the republicans are realizing that the tea partiers are nothing but a bunch of obstructionist and are calling them out. You on the other hand seem to be confused.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:19 pm on Mon, Dec 16, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Mr. Baxter's source? Seriously? The Bureau of Labor Statistics is the source.

    U6 isn't a rock band from Ireland Mr. Elliott. [sleeping]

    http://www.infowars.com/more-misleading-official-employment-statistics/

     
  • Treacy Elliott posted at 10:25 am on Mon, Dec 16, 2013.

    Treacy Elliott Posts: 71

    your source?? Don't believing everything the conservatives feed you, it's usually just another crock of hogwash

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 2:16 pm on Sun, Dec 15, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Treacy Elliott posted: "Joe, Your information is absolutely incorrect. Check your sources or maybe provide your sources. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics under the Employment Situation Section, in 1/2009 when President Obama took office, there were 11.6 million people unemployed. In November of 2013 there were 10.9 million unemployed. That looks like 700,000 more employed to me"
    What the current Bureau of Labor Statistics fail to take into account are the thousands of unemployed people who have just flat given up even looking for a job. They are NOT counted. If they were, you would see unemployment of at least 11%. Don't believe what the liberals feed you, it is usually a crock of hogwash.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:21 am on Sat, Dec 14, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    According to the CBO report that you are unable to digest or apparently even unable to read, “A group can have a negative income tax rate if its refundable tax credits exceed the income tax otherwise owed.”
    [sleeping]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:41 am on Sat, Dec 14, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Mr. Barrow posted, "Obama stimulus spending is another great example of a Keynesian success story and if the right would have gotten out of the way recovery wouldn't have taken so long. Millions of Americans suffering unnecessarily I'm sure they will not forget who caused their misery in 2014"
    Are you serious? the stimulus was a success story? Wow, are you living in a fantasy world.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:33 am on Sat, Dec 14, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999


    "The crisis did not take place because we were spending too little but because we were spending too much to create growth that was not sustainable. It isn’t just that the banks took over too many risks. Governments allowed them to do so by neglecting to set the necessary [financial market] rules and, for instance in the US, by increasing the money supply too much."
    [sleeping]
    Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:17 am on Sat, Dec 14, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Jacqueline Arenstein, Yetta Barenblatt, Hymie Barsel, Lionel Bernstein, Sonia Bunting, Ruth First, Lionel Forman, Isaac Horvitch, Leon Levy, Norman Levy, Ronald Press, Sydney Shall, Joe Slovo, and Ben Turok.
    [sleeping]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:23 pm on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    And, apparently you can lead a liberal to factual information but you can't make them believe it.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:21 pm on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Andrew, you can lead the horse to water, bu you can't make him drink.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:20 pm on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Show me a post I made dsparaging the people who work for a living. More projecion on your part.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:19 pm on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Seriously? Oh my, John, there goes my "assumption" you actually know what you write.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:16 pm on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    I love it when the liberal lemmings counter FACTUAL information about someone with see what someone else did. Cracks me up. It is akin to a litle kid getting in trouble and sayini " Mikey did it too". Wait, I just had a revelation into the minds of liberals, they think like little kids.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 3:26 pm on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Liebich wrote: "Taxpayers in the top 40 percent of households were able to pay more than 100 percent of net federal income taxes in 2010 because Americans in the bottom 40 percent actually paid negative income taxes, according to the CBO study entitled, “The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2010.”

    Mr. Liebich: "Just so you know," Mr. Baxxter claimed that the top 40% paid 106.2% of COLLECTED INCOME TAX. It is still impossible to pay over 100% of the total collected, which, btw, excludes amounts collected from anyone under the top 40%. Time to get your REAL facts in order.

    He never mentioned any offset for "negative income tax." I still stand by the fact that you two don't even know what you are talking about. Especially someone who "copies and pastes" from websites without reading or even understanding the complex statistics.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:44 am on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    WOW!
    [sleeping]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:26 am on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    In your dreams...

    Taxpayers in the top 40 percent of households were able to pay more than 100 percent of net federal income taxes in 2010 because Americans in the bottom 40 percent actually paid negative income taxes, according to the CBO study entitled,
    “The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2010.”

    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44604-AverageTaxRates.pdf

    “When refundable tax credits, such as the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit, exceed the other federal tax liabilities of the households in an income group, those households are said to have a negative average tax rate,” said the CBO study.
    [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:51 am on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup][smile]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:04 am on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I have not. Show me a time that I had. What we are talking about here is tax policy.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:03 am on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    As usual. No argument or rebuttal just a personal attack. What have you got against facts or reality, Joe? [smile]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:01 am on Fri, Dec 13, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    thx Tom

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:28 pm on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1430

    [offtopic]
    However I think the British said the same thing about Geo Washington and the other founders as now you want to say about Mandela. Trying to overthrow tyranny is like making an omelet. You have to break some eggs. Just ask Geo Bush about collateral damage overthrowing tyrants.. That's also how Israel fought for independence. And got it.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:13 pm on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1430

    Doctoring was necessary but not done . There are a lot of numbers in this report but 106% is not one of them. Another time waster and fact dodging.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 5:05 pm on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1490

    Let's see are there any other groups that shed blood shrugging off British Imperialism ya I think they were called America Revolutionary Solders

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:47 pm on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "The top 40 percent of households by before-tax income actually paid 106.2 percent of the nation’s net income taxes in 2010, according to the Congressional Budget Office."

    Mr. Liebich - I suggest that you get someone who actually knows how to interpret this report to explain it to you and you might find that you are completely wrong.

    My prior example stands - you cannot pay MORE than 100% of anything. Maybe Pythagoras could explain that to you.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:39 pm on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Do some reading some time, Mr. Baxxter, and learn about all of the terrorist acts that the Jews perpetrated in Palestine when they were fighting to rid the country of the British.

    That's why they're so good at fighting terrorism now - they practically invented it.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 2:38 pm on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 543

    Baxte, my point is that sometimes facts can change on tuesday, but it seems like your opinion would not. regardless of what happened tuesday.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:17 pm on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Yes, right after I finished "editing" CSPAN video Mr. Baxter.
    ROFLMAO![rolleyes]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 12:07 pm on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Dang Andrew, there ya go offering up factual proof. You know you doctored the CBO PDF file, admit it. Even if you didn't the liberal lemmings will accuse you of doing so. Facts can be such a pain, eh liberals?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:03 pm on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    If you sell lemonade at Obama's White House you get arrested.
    http://youtu.be/04MNf1YdNxI

     
  • Treacy Elliott posted at 11:26 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Treacy Elliott Posts: 71

    Joe, Your information is absolutely incorrect. Check your sources or maybe provide your sources. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics under the Employment Situation Section, in 1/2009 when President Obama took office, there were 11.6 million people unemployed. In November of 2013 there were 10.9 million unemployed. That looks like 700,000 more employed to me

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 11:11 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Tillet, when it doesn't change from Monday to Wednesday, what's your point?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:05 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Hardly.

    The top 40 percent of households by before-tax income actually paid 106.2 percent of the nation’s net income taxes in 2010, according to the Congressional Budget Office.
    [sleeping]
    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44604-AverageTaxRates.pdf

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:57 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    We know from leaked documents, such as the February 2011 draft US TPP IP Rights Chapter [PDF]

    On November 13, 2013, a complete draft of the treaty's Intellectual Property Rights chapter was published by WikiLeaks.
    [sleeping]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 10:40 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Ah yes, Mandela, the peace loving gentle soul that the world mourns.
    In his book, ”Long Walk to Freedom,” Mandela writes that as a leading
    member of the African National Congress’s (ANC) executive committee, he
    “personally signed off” in approving these acts of terrorism :

    1981 – 2 car bombs at Durban showrooms
    1983 – Church Street Bomb (killed 19, wounded 217)
    1984 – Durban car bomb (killed 5, wounded 27)
    1985-1987 – At least 150 landmines on farm roads (killed 125)
    1985 – Amanzimtoti Sanlam shopping center bomb Dec 23 (killed 2 white women and 3 white children)
    1986 – Magoo’s Bar bomb (killed 3, wounded 69)
    1986 – Newcastle Court bomb (wounded 24)
    1987 – Johannesburg Court bomb (killed 3, wounded 10)
    1987 – Wits command centre car bomb (killed 1, wounded 68)
    1988 – Johannesburg video arcade (killed 1 unborn baby, wounded 10)
    1988 – Roodepoort bank bomb (killed 4, wounded 18)
    1988 – Pretoria Police housing unit, 2 bombs (wounded 3)
    1988 – Magistrate’s Court bomb (killed 3)
    1988 – Benoni Wimpy Bar bomb (killed 1, wounded 56)
    1988 – Witbank shopping centre bomb (killed 2, wounded 42)
    1988 – Ellis Park Rugby Stadium car bomb (killed 2, wounded 37) Late
    1980s – numerous Wimpy Restaurant bombs (killed many, wounded many)

    Through his silence he gave tacit approval to the slaughtering of nearly 6000
    white farmers in South Africa between 1994 and present. Silence is consent. Mandela, the Ruling ANC government, and their brothers in arms, the Communist Party, are responsible for these senseless murders. They condone it, because it fits their ultimate agenda of Collectivism.

    IT’S IN HIS OWN BOOK! For decades the ANC propagated this extreme hatred
    towards the white minority of South Africa. And Mandela, the thug, led them.
    No wonder Obama idolized the man.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 10:04 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1490

    "During the worst of the global financial meltdown, Berlin pumped tens of billions of euros into the economy and spent hundreds of billions propping up German banks. Now, the country is reaping the benefits as Germany is once again Europe's economic motor."

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/a-keynesian-success-story-germany-s-new-economic-miracle-a-707231.html

    Obama stimulus spending is another great example of a Keynesian success story and if the right would have gotten out of the way recovery wouldn't have taken so long. Millions of Americans suffering unnecessarily I'm sure they will not forget who caused their misery in 2014.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:48 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Always amusing when Mr. Lucas ASSUMES people like Bush and Romney are my "heroes". He tries sooo hard to lay blame. One thing for sure, had Romney won the election, I flat guarantee you America would be in a whole lot better financial position than we are now. Obama, unlawfully, hasn't passed a budget in 6 years and couldn't even run a sidewalk lemonade stand to break even.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:24 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    No amount of you insisting Keynesian economics have worked, for any length of time ever, is going to make it so, More liberal fantasy world conjuring up an unsustainable solution. Total hogwash.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:12 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Ah, John, more amusing fodder from the liberal fantasy world, thanks for the humor.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:00 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    So if equality for everyone is the liberal goal, does that mean the price tag on everything sold in America should be adjusted by the income of the buyer? Evil wealthy people should pay $10 for a loaf of bread while the less fortunate should only pay $1? Redistribution of wealth is about as communistic as it gets. Want to live under communism, simply move to a country that espouses that ideology. See ya.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 7:52 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Nobody is insulting the people who work for a living. Why are all you LIBERALS always insulting people who have become financially successful?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 7:50 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Ah, Mr. Lucas, your assumptions are a constant source of amusement.

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:25 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1430

    Good letter as usual John. As you say "intuitively obvious to the most causal observer." and I might add as it should be except for the politically blinded.

    [thumbup][beam]

     
  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:15 am on Thu, Dec 12, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1430

    [thumbup]
    Ms Bobin thank you. You're right on the money as usual.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:35 pm on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [smile]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:44 pm on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I am not judging the uber rich at all. I am just pointing out the truth that as a percentage of income they pay less in taxes than anyone else.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:18 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    OOPS! Make that "the number of unemployed continued to GROW" once the recession/depression got underway.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:17 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Lucas - we all know that Joe Baxxter loves to Google - in fact he has gotten quite good at finding "facts" that match his opinions.

    Unfortunately, the key part is missing, i.e., the ability to analyze the picture as a whole. The inability to follow trends, i.e., the amount of unemployed people continued to fall once the recession/depression got underway. He can only think that happened because of the person in the Oval Office.

    Reference his comment about the "top 40% of American earners pay 106.2% of all collected income taxes."

    Didn't stop to think that you cannot HAVE more than 100%. Basic 4th grade math - but the rush to comment overtook reality.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:00 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baxxter wrote: "Expand that to the top 40% and their collected tax is 106.2%"

    Explain how a group (the top 40%) could possibly pay 106.2% of all collected income tax.

    And since this group, according to you, is paying over 100% of the tax, what are others (excluding the famous 47%) paying.

    Hint - just to keep it simply: if all collected income taxes are $100, why is there an additional $6.20?

    That's what happens when people post a comment before they think, just because it sounds good to put out big numbers.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 8:30 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 543

    Wow. Don't let reading comprehension and facts get in the way of what you "feel" is the truth. The "truthiness" of your statements cannot be denied. It's as though you will believe on Wednesday exactly what you did on Monday, no matter what happens on Tuesday.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:16 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Try living in reality.

    Obama's TPP Trade Pact exempts corporations from paying ANY taxes.
    [sleeping]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:54 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    If the videos I provide to substantiate a position are continually "edited" why are you NEVER able to provide un-edited versions to substantiate yours?
    [sleeping]

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 7:25 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    If Income tax keeps this country alive and supplies the leviathan that is the U.S. government, how did we have a country for 137 years before the 16th amenedment was ratified?
    [sleeping]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:15 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Wow. It is about the system we live in. The system that allows the very wealthy to pay less in percentage in taxes than anyone who works for a living. These people are just taking advantage of a broken system. What needs to be fixed is the system. You seem to be hung up on the rich. Why is that?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:09 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    It is such a good thing we have our friend Joe Baxter commenting at this forum. He is so good at regurgitating right wing talking points while some may not be out and out lies the certainly misrepresent the reality of a given situation and alway present the uber wealthy as victims and much put upon by those ugly people in the lower economic classes. Here are a couple:

    The uber wealthy are over taxed. The reality is that minimum wage workers pay a greater percentage of their income to the government that the uber wealthy do. Middle class small businessmen who make from $80,000 to $106,000 get hammered the worst. The fact is that if you are a paid employee you are going to get taxed at a higher rate than those who sit at home and pay taxes at the capital gains rate. Work is taxed higher than investment income. THERE IS NO STUDY THAT SAYS THAT TAXING INVESTMENT INCOME AT A LOWER RATE IS BETTER FOR THE ECONOMY. It is just another way to hammer people who work for a living so the uber wealthy can pay less.

    The second is the fantasy that American corporations are suffering under high corporate income tax. On paper the tax is higher but the reality is that AMERICAN CORPORATIONS PAY LESS IN CORPORATE TAXES THAN THEIR COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES. Corporations like the situation. they can complain about paying higher taxes while paying less. Pretty cool eh?

    The thing that Joe does best is verbally assault those that work for a living saying that they are the problem and if they were just like him they would be rich. It is not possible for everyone to be rich. It is a good goal for all to be treated decently and be given the opportunity for a better life. Those who think it is the same now as it was before Reagan and Supply side economics are living a pipe dream and have been drinking the same kool-aid as our friend Joe has. It is time to get back to what works and built the biggest middle class the world has ever seen.

    1. Highly progressive income tax
    2. Enforce labor laws that level the playing field between management and labor.
    3. Good financial regulations
    4. Keynesian economics

    These things worked. Reagan and Supply side economics have got us to where we are now which is a disaster for working people. This is intuitively obvious to the most causal observer.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:54 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    There are almost 1.5 million more people uemployed today than there were when Obama took office. I know liberals love to blame Bush for all of America's ills, but, what I am wondering is when will they finally hold Obama accountable for his inept, rudderless "leadership"?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:01 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Never, because to do so would be lying. Part of Keynesian economics is a stimulus when the economy is weak. WW II was the biggest stimulus program ever. It is part of what built the biggest middle class ever. In the 1950's we built the interstate system which created jobs, stimulated the economy and built something we needed at the same time. The problem came with Reagan and Supply Side economics. Reagan and the Bushes never met a tax cut for the uber wealthy they did not like. The created 80% of the national debt up to their time of leaving office because they did not use Keynesian economics. When the economy is good you are supposed to bring down the debt. This is how it is supposed to work. Conservative never miss an opportunity to give a tax break to those who already pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes. It is who they work for. As usual the reality is the opposite of what you believe. Keynesian economics has always worked. It built the greatest middle class the world has ever seen. No amount of saying "Total Hogwash" is going to change reality.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:46 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Why do you always misrepresent what reality is? On paper the American corporate tax rate is high. The effective or what American corporations actually pay is among the lowest in the industrialized countries. The truth is that the American rich and American corporations are among the least taxed in the world. Your continued misrepresenting the reality of this amounts to lying.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:38 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are not really that stupid. Income taxes are just one of the taxes that we pay. Taxes are what we pay to keep the infrastructure going so we can continue to live. Your hero Romney said he paid 13.9%( actually 9% amended) in income taxes. Every person on minimum wage pays 15% for social security and medicare. They do not have any disposable income so the money they have they spend and pay sale taxes or property taxes with their rent. The reality is that people on minimum wage pay a far greater percentage of they money to the government that Romney does. This is the reality. LOW INCOME PEOPLE PAY A FAR GREATER PERCENTAGE OF THEIR MONEY IN TAXES THAN RICH PEOPLE DO. PERIOD. QUIT TRYING TO IMPLY OTHERWISE. IF YOU DO YOU ARE LYING

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:28 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Why do you Conservatives always insult people who work for a living? It is not that people are not working it is that the jobs being created today pay so little. Americans are among the hardest working people in the world. The biggest private employer is WalMart. A good percentage of those people make so little that the qualify for food stamps. Stop with the insults of American working people.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:04 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    This comment certainly explains a lot about how Mr. Baxxter thinks the world works - a world where EVERYONE is at the top if ONLY they weren't so lazy.

    Who's going to clean all of those homes you own and mow the lawns if everyone "got ahead in the world" as you would like them to, eh, Mr. Baxxter?

    Bet you pay them all under the table and at less than minimum.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:53 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    The person who has blinders on is the one denying that a recession, almost a depression, began in early 2006.

    Explains a lot when you tell the whole story, Mr. Liebich. Anyone can take bits and pieces out of context to make a point - somewhat like your ridiculous youtube videos that never prove anything except that some people are good at editing video tape.

    [sleeping]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:49 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    DUH - of course the Gates Foundation is tax exempt. But it does not represent the total of Gates' wealth.

    Do you really think people are so stupid that they believe all the nonsense that you post here to counter actual facts?

    BTW - that was a rhetorical question. Obviously, would be the answer.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:47 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Another stupid conspiracy theory, Mr. Liebich. If it is so secret, why does Info Wars know about it?

    Oh, that's right - because they made it up in their hallucinogenic filled fantasy world.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:46 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    No, because in the end they know greed and income inequality will destroy the middle class. Without a middle class none of these people would have made their fortunes. They know how the real world works. That is why they are Democrats.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 6:11 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1990

    I would agree it is time to build modern infrastructure, but I wouldn't use the economy as the reason why.

    The economy WILL recover when society spends more money. We can't spend more money when we are paying everything we have to Credit card companies and banks. If we don't stop the growing issue of individual family debt then the economy will continue to suffer.

    I am talking individual debt, you are looking at national debt. I believe when the individual debt is controlled and minimized then we, being Americans, will go out and spend more money which will stimulate more jobs and more taxes which will reduce our national debt. I do not believe any other method will work.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:54 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Typo, s/b keynesian in prior post.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:51 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Erroneous projection? Mr. Lucas whines about the "uber rich" then says it isn't about THEM? Laughable, at best.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:49 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    "Republicans whose only real job seems to protect the interests of the uber-wealthy"
    So, John, you are saying the Republicans are only interested in protecting the interests of Gates, Soros, Ellison and all the other filthy rich Democrats? If so, you would think the "uber" rich Democrats would be thanking them profusely.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:25 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    When are you going to admit Kenesian economics NEVER EVER worked anywhere in any economy? Total hogwash.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:24 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Meh

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:13 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    So, this isn't bashing the uber rich?
    "We have watched the ultra-wealthy’s share of the national income go from 8 percent to 23 percent. We have a situation where the top 400 wealthy families have more wealth than the bottom 150 million people in our country."
    Want more money? WORK for it.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:11 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Instead of "ttickle-down economics" the current administration is practicing trickle-down poverty. Our government is enabling freeloaders to collect everything they can at the expense of the hard working TAXPAYERS. I worked hard for my money, saved, made smart investments and am able to live quite comfortably during my retirement. I do not feel obligated to subsidize the losers any more than the huge taxes I already dole out every year. How about JOBS? How about lowering the corporate taxes (ours are the about the highest on the planet) to encourage American companies to bring the offshore jobs back to America? Corporations have shareholders that expect returns on their money, the govenment SHOULD view taxpayers as shareholders and quit borrowing more and more money enslaving future generations to unpayable debts, unless, of course, that is your goal all along.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 4:15 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Did you know that the Obama administration is negotiating a super secret “trade agreement” that is so sensitive that he isn’t even allowing members of Congress to see it Mr. Lucas?

    Of course you don't.[sleeping]
    http://www.infowars.com/obamas-secret-treaty-which-will-merge-america-more-deeply-into-the-emerging-one-world-economic-system/

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:58 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    The REAL income inequality:
    The top 20% of American earners pay 92.9% of all collected income tax.
    Expand that to the top 40% and their collected tax is 106.2%
    The bottom 40% paid in negative income tax while collecting approdimately $19k in government aid (taxpayer money). And the liberals want more? What happened to hard work, smart work, self motivation and getting an education so you have marketable skills? It went away when the freeloaders found out they could whine and get money for nothing.

     
  • robert maurer posted at 3:56 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 444

    Check out the powers that be and see how much they contributed to charities before taxes: you may be surprised as I was, and I hate surprises.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 3:44 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    In January 2009, the month President Obama entered the Oval Office and shortly before he signed his stimulus spending bill, median household income was $54,983. By June 2012, it had tumbled to $50,964.

    Income for middle class households rose by roughly 30% from 1983 to 2005, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

    Who has blinders on? [sleeping]

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 3:02 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 543

    Reagan, or rather his administration and advisors, based it off the Laffer Curve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve): an inverted parabola, that led to the assertion that if you lower tax rates (if you begin on the right side of the graph), then tax revenues will actually be increased. That may in fact be valid. But what would also have to then be valid, is that if you lower taxes enough, you would end up on the left side of the inverted parabola. This would mean that to increase tax revenue, you would have to raise tax rate. This is where current tax rates (the lowest in many decades) put us. Lower tax rates further would not increase tax revenues.

    "reports that estimates of revenue-maximizing tax rates have varied widely, with a mid-range of around 70%.
    Although economist Arthur Laffer does not claim to have invented the Laffer curve concept, it was popularized with policymakers following an afternoon meeting with Ford Administration officials Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld in 1974 in which he reportedly sketched the curve on a napkin to illustrate his argument."

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:20 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    The Gates Foundation, AKA the Gates Family Trust is tax-exempt.[sleeping]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:21 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    [thumbup]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 1:19 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Liebich: Refer to my comment above. And remember, Bill Gates owns about 78 Billion $$ of that total that you copied from some other commenter on another thread.

    The main difference is not in accumulated wealth, but what they are willing to be taxed and what they are willing to give away.

    Mitt Romney claimed he had so much charitable giving, but most of that is REQUIRED by his Mormon Church, so it actually doesn't count. He's just trying to buy his way into heaven according to his faith's beliefs.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:48 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup] I think that is our Joe's Modus Operandi [smile]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:38 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    It is this type of thinking that gets us into trouble. The Republican Party believes cutting taxes for the rich cures cancer so they do so at every given opportunity with disastrous results. Building a stable robust economy calls for different actions at different times. Now is the time to build something ( a modern electrical grid?) and borrow the money to do so while money is cheap. When the economy gets going you do as Clinton did in the 1990's start paying off the debt as fast as you can. Keynesian Economics. It worked before and built the greatest middle class in the world. We really did not have debt problems until Reagan and Supply Side economics and Reagan and the Bushes went crazy.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:28 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Yes and he signed the bill to do away with Glass-Seagall but it is Republican Party economics (Supply Side) that is killing the middle class. Clinton helped a little but it is false equivalence to believe the blame is equally shared. the Republican Party is the party of and only cares for the interests of the uber wealthy.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 11:26 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1490

    I think when the spiritual leader of 1.2 billion people condemns trickle-down economics it is about time for the champions of this failed economic policy to take off the blinders and no Joe it's not OK but nice try trying to change the subject. The problem is not about who holds the wealth but rather about who does not. It just so happens that the hero of the right, Reagan dreamed up this policy and it does not work, time for a change. If the right refuses to change then all we can do is keep them away from the steering wheel.

     
  • Jeff Tillett posted at 10:46 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Jeff Tillett Posts: 543

    Mr. Lucas is not condemning rich people, democrat or republican. He is condemning a system that perpetuates and increases economic inequality. He is condemning a system in which the economy, it's production, and CEO pay have all increased, yet middle class pay has stayed stagnate.

    You can't make up something about someone, and then slam them for your erroneous projection.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:06 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Where is the hypocrisy, Mr. Baxxter? All of those that you named are NOT against raising tax rates on the rich. And Bill Gates aims to give away most of his fortune.

    The opposite can be said about conservatives who, when in office, consistently give themselves more and more tax breaks and only give to charity because it's a tax write-off.

    Hypocrisy?

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 9:35 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1990

    I don't necessarily agree with he Top down building of an economy. A Strong economy HAS to be built from the bottom up. The issue we have come to in this country is that the government is taking earned money at a huge rate from one group, to give to another group in an effort to build the economy. This is FLAWED. It takes money from group A gives it to group B who then gives it to group A again through debt.

    IF the country really wanted to improve the economy then an all out educational "war" on debt needs to be waged. It will take as long to turn things around as it did to get here, but the ONLY way to build "wealth" is to eliminate debt. But this will never happen without a total economic collapse to rebalance our desire to buy "stuff" vs "needs".

     
  • Bob Weisenberg posted at 9:28 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    whtmtns Posts: 5

    John, Often times when partisanship is at a fever pitch we forget some facts. Don't forget that Bill Clinton signed NAFTA which, in my opinion, has been a great dis-service to the working middle class. Sure you buy cheap stuff at Wal-Mart but hundreds or thousands of skilled manufacturing jobs are now in Mexico. The bottom line is that there are "bad apples" on both sides. The difference between the parties is not as great as MSNBC or Fox news would lead you to believe. Follow the money.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:24 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Reread the letter. I am criticizing an economic theory not any particular person. You, as usual, go personal.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:21 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Exactly Mr. Baxter. [thumbup]

    An analysis of the top 20 richest people in America (from Forbes Top 100) reveals that a full 60% are actually Democrats. In this Top 20 group, Democrats have a combined net worth of $263.1 billion dollars while the Republicans have a combined net worth of only $143.9 billion dollars – almost 1/2 that of Democrats.

    So the next time you hear some Liberal try the “Evil Rich Republican” rhetoric, remind them that it is the Democrats who are those “Evil Rich People”, not the Republicans. Then stand back and watch their head spin.
    [lol]

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 7:25 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Mr. Lucas, so you are condemning the wealthy people like Bill Gates, George Soros, Warren Buffet, Larry Ellison, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, John Kerry and a whole slew of uber rich liberals? Or is it OK to be a rich liberal, but not a rich conservative? The epitome of hypocrisy.

     

Recent Comments

Posted Yesterday by Mike Adams.

article: Letter: La Raza does support illegal im…

Kevin: I think with a one party system, only 1/3 of America would never have any representation in the oval office. But really, the what e…

More...

Posted Yesterday by Mike Adams.

article: Letter: Friend’s car was wrongfully tow…

I think it's just the geography of the way the page is set up. With the "Twitter" and "Marketplace" and "Calendar&…

More...

Posted Yesterday by Brian Dockter.

article: Letter: We should reconsider using firi…

Eric, I can just imagine where we would be if the military hadn't gone to war when there was no other solution.

More...

Posted Yesterday by Brian Dockter.

article: Letter: Evolutionism is a hypothesis, n…

Simply put. Evolution is gradual change over a period of time. Humans are evolving. Plants are evolving. Animals are evolving. Relationship…

More...

Posted Yesterday by Bob Dirocco.

article: Letter: Evolutionism is a hypothesis, n…

Is the "law of gravity", one of the many scientific principle of physics next?

More...

Video

Popular Stories

Poll

Loading…

Your News

News for the community, by the community.

Mailing List

Subscribe to a mailing list to have daily news sent directly to your inbox.

  • Breaking News

    Would you like to receive breaking news alerts? Sign up now!

  • News Updates

    Would you like to receive our daily news headlines? Sign up now!

  • Sports Updates

    Would you like to receive our daily sports headlines? Sign up now!

Manage Your Lists