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Letter to the editor referenced an old amnesty bill

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Posted: Saturday, June 2, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 6:38 am, Sat Jun 2, 2012.

On May 30, a letter titled "Why are politicians' ideas so costly?" by Richard Viall states, "According to information received from Lou Dobbs, a noted national economist, there is currently a bill snaking its way through Congress that applies to 'amnesty' for illegal aliens."

Did Fox's Lou Dobbs denounce an immigration bill "going through Congress right now"? The "information" Mr. Viall cites from Mr. Dobbs is from 2007. Dobbs (then with CNN) was criticizing a bipartisan Senate bill, which was supported by then-President Bush and Sen. John McCain.

Dobbs makes various claims about this "amnesty" bill that is supposedly being pushed by the Obama administration. (How can a bill that does not exist except as legislative history be "pushed" by anybody?)

Proposed while Bush was president, the bill was the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007, or the Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007 (S. 1348). It was introduced in the United States Senate on May 9, 2007, but was never voted on, though a series of votes on amendments and cloture took place. The last vote, on June 7, 2007, failed 34-61, ending the bill's chances. A related bill S. 1639, on June 28, 2007, also failed.

Mr. Viall bemoans the lack of political transparency. Why doesn't he talk to Mr. Dobbs about transparency? He might also inquire about "truth in journalism" and ask him who "noted" him as a national economist.

Jim Turner


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  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:09 pm on Wed, Jun 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mike stated...Darrell...Sarah Palin....an intellectual? You're being sarcastic right?

    Mike, based on your comments in your post at 7:21 pm on Wed, Jun 6, 2012, it would be reasonable to take your position. Unfortunately for you, what you perceive and reality do not meet.

  • Mike Adams posted at 7:21 pm on Wed, Jun 6, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    Sarah Palin....an intellectual? You're being sarcastic right? I'm certain EVERYTHING about Sarah Palin is entirely made up. From her not knowing how to load and shoot a gun (supposed to be an avid gun enthusiast) to her complete lack of knowledge about...well everything. She didn't know Queen Elizabeth II didn't actually run Great Britain. I would say a constitutional monarchy but I'm sure she wouldn't know what that is. Her knowledge of the Soviet Union was that on a very clear day, it can be seen from parts of Alaska. I'm not sure if this is true (that you can see the Soviet Union from Alaska), but I'm pretty sure that if it is, she never actually saw it.

    Her performance while a VP candidate was appalling. EVERY ANSWER to every comment or question was nothing more than one sound bite after another. It didn't matter what the interviewer said or asked. I can't believe you would accept her as a viable VP candidate and possibly as president one day. Your standards are far higher than that.

    Rush Limbaugh is an act. He's found a hook and now a niche to promote Rush Limbaugh. He calls his listeners ditto heads. His listeners (well, not me of course) call themselves ditto heads. I think that there will be a day when he is outed ( I don't mean as a gay man, but outed as a fake).

    And I hardly think that using only C-Span as a source for news and information would satisfy anyone. You want to know the weather, right? Or some sort of local news, correct? C-Span doesn't carry those types of segments. Channel 3 is a fine source of local news, considerably better than any of the other local stations.

    And I do think that "Hope and Change" is a perception that all Americans would embrace, it being far more optimistic than "maverick" or as Palin now drones on: "how's that whole hope and change think working out for ya". How's that whole, you're not vice-president nor will you ever be VP or president for that matter reality working out for you.

    If I may borrow a line from your post: "people hear it over and over and it becomes their reality. " Well put Darrell, well put.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:55 am on Tue, Jun 5, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mike stated...They've learned well the lesson that if you say something enough times, people will believe it...

    I do agree with your thought Mike... its why Obama was elected in the first place
    ( hope and change) Its why people think Sarah Palin is an air head ( when she is an intellectual)... its why people think Rush Limbaugh has no substance when he clearly does...people hear it over and over and it becomes their reality.

    When I said ditto head, I was simply referring to anyone that forms their opinion by simply watching channel 3 or any other media source ( other than c span) to form their opinion on others. Was not a Limbaugh moment.

  • Mike Adams posted at 7:54 am on Tue, Jun 5, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    Again, for the record: I never watch CNN or MSNBC or The Daily Show or the show after it. I don't watch any of the shows on Fox. I watch the local news (KCRA, Channel 3 in HD). I don't listen to talk radio at all anymore with the exception of the blimp Limbaugh. What I pick up is mostly from the Stockton Record.

    So, conservatives, if a reasonably well educated (graduate degrees), normal everyday Joe, can filter out all the noise from the right or left, how can I be a "ditto head" or parrot The Daily Show (or the show that's on after it)? Why do only conservatives mindlessly repeat what they've heard on Fox or the blimp, or Savage, or Hannity? Where does the individual thoughts come into play? Where is their "Snoppes" that they should check before embarrassing themselves here and on talk radio? It seems that conservatives don't bother to find out the truth or even care about the truth. Darrell does some fact checking, but as I've said before, why would I find it necessary go to Darrell's sources when all it is is something Darrell just said.
    If Darrell says it, I believe he has at least looked into the matter and what he is saying, he believes to be true. Going to his source to isn't going to convince me anymore than what he may have just stated.

    There are several arch conservatives here who merely and mindlessly repeat what they have heard ad nauseum. Clearly calling President Obama a socialist, or a progressive, or a communist, or a citizen of some other country, or the outright misrepresentation of, or lying about the president doesn't effect myself or other more liberal contributors here, why practice it?
    Well there are many citizens of this country who don't bother to be even the least bit skeptical. These are the people conservatives target. They've learned well the lesson that if you say something enough times, people will believe it.

    Perhaps they should have learned how to think for themselves.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:31 pm on Sun, Jun 3, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mike stated...This kind of disinformation works on conservatives because of their lack of skepticism and accepting what ever they hear or read as truth. Limbaugh calls them ditto heads

    Interesting... why then did I ask for the bill number so I could read and verify what was stated. It would appear that the left leaning people here are the ditto heads as they made accusations based on what they heard on CNN and the Stewart show rather than asking for verification... How funny that liberals accuse conservatives of following blindly yet watch late night comedy shows to substantiate their reality... Sheeple in action.

  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:28 pm on Sun, Jun 3, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    msb: Idiotic statements get you nowhere: Mr Vial referenced nothing in his letter except Obamacare...FYI that was passed in 2010...three years AFTER the supposed chain letter. The EIC and ACTC is a recent development. There is NO perspective just something called INFORMATION! The information mrt present was gleaned from wikipedia!

    MAYBE just MAYBE you might learn something if you stopped deleting valuable information from your "enemy". Try downsizing your inclusion of "each and every conservative" it makes you look foolish...and I can't even see you.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:07 pm on Sun, Jun 3, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Great comments, Mr. Adams. Your perspective fits each and every conservative who comments in this forum.

    I call it cookie cutter conservatism.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:03 pm on Sun, Jun 3, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Maple: It took me 30 seconds on Yahoo to find the source of the "information received from Mr. Lou Dobbs" that Richard Viall spoke of in his letter. Do you really think that Lou called Mr. Viall? Did he write him a personal letter? Did he come to his home for tea and biscuits?

    What do you not GET about a CHAIN EMAIL that has been circulating for almost 5 years?

    Apparently, some people are so eager to receive email that they read every piece of garbage that ends up in their "mailbox." I immediately delete anything, including any and all political mass communications, that is not from a known acquaintance. And if it turns out some idiot I know has forwarded a communication like Mr. Viall received, I delete it as soon as I realize it is email garbage.

  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:48 am on Sun, Jun 3, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Unless Lou Dobbs is a psychic, shaman, sees oracles, or is a future traveler or maybe just a bit of a prophet. Hmmmm

  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:45 am on Sun, Jun 3, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrt stated: "He (Mr Vial) might also inquire about "truth in journalism" and ask him who "noted" him as a national economist."

    mra: stated: "This kind of disinformation works on conservatives because of their lack of skepticism and accepting what ever they hear or read as truth.:

    Mr V: Never stated in his letter the actual bills he was citing but through a cursory inspection it can be found that he was not talking about a 2007 bill...but two separate issues (as he refered to) the 2010 Obamacare bill and "earned income credit" scam (actually the Additional Child Tax Credit scam) which does exist:

    "Even wages earned illegally in the U.S. are taxed. Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) are available to people without Social Security numbers who cannot legally work in the U.S. so they can file tax returns. These ITINs have become increasingly linked to fraudulent tax claims, which helped inflate IRS payouts on the Additional Child Tax Credit from $924 million in 2005 to $4.2 billion, the report said." The Fiscal Times...9-2-11

    DB did ask for the information quoted by Mr V...I checked his assertion past the first glance...mrt, mra nor mrb didn't bother to question his sources or get clarification...so much for truth, justice and the American way...conservatively speaking I think your comments are a bit flagrant.

  • Mike Adams posted at 7:35 am on Sun, Jun 3, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    This kind of disinformation works on conservatives because of their lack of skepticism and accepting what ever they hear or read as truth. Limbaugh calls them ditto heads ("I will tell you what to think!").
    So what if the information is 5 years old and the bills in congress have been long since dead, that shouldn't prevent conservatives from using it to attack the left.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:49 am on Sat, Jun 2, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Bransom stated...Now the same people who ignored Mr. Vial are now actually talking about the content of the letter...

    Mr Bransom, I hope you are not referring to me as one of these people... I posted this question to Me Viall...

    Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:37 am on Wed, May 30, 2012... May I ask, can you post the bill number so it can be reviewed. This bill sounds like it will cost the American tax payer big time...

    My intent was not to ignore him or what he had to say. I thought his letter was interesting and was hoping for a response as to what specific documents he was referring to....I was waiting to respond more about his letter until I undertood more.

  • Jerry Bransom posted at 10:20 am on Sat, Jun 2, 2012.

    Jerry Bransom Posts: 364

    What a strange turn of events! Now the same people who ignored Mr. Vial are now actually talking about the content of the letter? But only after someone rightly pointed out the truth of it in another letter? What a waste of time when the original group of Hijackers could have done this in the first place rather than bickering senselessly. Do you people realize how offensive you are to the rest of the online community?

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:59 am on Sat, Jun 2, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Turner - thank you for the very clear and concise correction to the gross misinformation that Mr. Viall was disseminating through his LTE.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:50 am on Sat, Jun 2, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    So just what policies and legislation could Mr Viall be talking about...

    1. Dream Act... In a December 2010 report, the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that the November 30th, 2010 version of the DREAM Act would increase projected deficits by more than $5 billion in at least one of the four consecutive 10-year periods starting in 2021".
    2. Millions of dollars spent fighting Arizona who is attempting to do something about illegal immigration.
    3. According to Politifact, U.S. Customs and Border Protection has reported apprehensions nationwide decreased by 36 percent between 2008 and 2010, from nearly 724,000 apprehensions to 463,000...that means more illegal aliens are utilizing expensive services in United States costing tax payers.
    4. Obama pushed for a Federal Dream Act that would have cost billions over 10 years and stated in 2011 that he was disappointed that the legislation failed.
    5. Obamacare...provides free medical care to illegal immigrants that will cost tax payers billions. For example, the Department of Health and Human Services announced in 2011 that it had awarded $29 million to 67 community health centers with funds from the Obamacare health reform law.
    Of that $29 million, “approximately $9 million will be used by 25 New Access Point awardees to target services to migrant and seasonal farm workers,” Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) Spokeswoman Judy Andrews told CNSNews.com. HRSA is a part of HHS.
    Andrews said that grant recipients will not check the immigration status of people seeking services.
    This is just but one of many obvious expenses that will cost us plenty.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:48 am on Sat, Jun 2, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Maybe we should focus on the intent of the letter rather than if Mr Dobbs in a certified economist.

    Mr Viall stated... “ Every morning, it seems we are bombarded by yet another ploy by our leaders to take away our freedoms or our hard-earned money. My overriding question is: Who in Washington keeps coming up with these harebrained ideas, and why must they always seem so liberal and costly?

    His main concern was illegal immigration and the costs that are generated to tax payers. In addition, he was concerned about legislation enacted that resulted in massive expense to the tax payer
    (like Obamacare). His perspective that most policies and legislation that become expense originate from liberal democrats. Is there any doubt that his contention is accurate? Of course not... no doubt.


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