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Anniversary of Roe v. Wade is nothing to celebrate

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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:00 am

Jan. 22 marks the 40th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the beginning of the "War on Women," legalizing abortion for almost any reason. It's hard to rationalize celebrating the mass murder of 54 million unborn babies.

Commemoration of this "war on the womb" with no mention of its cause, honoring of its dead, memorializing of victims' names or public sorrow or repentance for this, our shameful failure, is an arrogant, prideful testament to our "right to choose" atrocity over righteousness. Do you know we murdered 1.3 million unborn babies in 2012, and paid Planned Parenthood $500 million taxpayer dollars for this abomination?

It's difficult to imagine calling the murder of unborn babies a "valid choice" and one worth fighting for. To think that women and men alike manipulate our reproductive systems with birth control pills, abortifcients and other cancer-causing drugs; tubal ligations, vasectomies, abortions and hormone therapies. Then, when suffering and "courageously battling" the resulting impotence, cancers and other side effects, we wear pink ribbons, pins and T-shirts handed out by the very Planned Parenthood that provided the abortions and drugs in the first place. Often this is done while these sick people are participating in fundraising activities that raise more money to put right back in the hands of the abortionists.

So we wonder, "Why all the bloodshed and violence?" It's not hard to put two and two together. When men abandon their families and men and women abort their kids, what can we expect from those within our sphere of influence — watching and being influenced by our example? Violence is the repercussion of violence. It is written, "The son can do nothing of himself but what he sees the father do: for what things the father does the son does likewise. For the father loves the son and shows him all things that he himself does."

Our children will emulate what they see and hear us do and say — good and evil. It all begins in our heart and then in our home. My dear old dad used to say "you get what you give."

William Van Amber Fields


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Welcome to the discussion.


  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:25 pm on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    MR Kinderman
    Unfortunatly you didn't spend much time in biology.
    If people watched how their food was prepared especially meat and sausage they would quit eating meat. If they saw the slaughter of animals simply for food they would be horrified. Watch the conditions in which chickens and other intended food animals are inhumanely caged and mistreated you would be on your way to being vegitarian. This of course if you truely hold life as sacrosanct but my suspicion is you don't and only have emotionalized the unborn to levels you don't share with any other life forms including unfortunate imprisoned and tortured human

    If you ever spent time in a surgical setting you know it is a messy business and a man who had a limb amputated that pulsed with life but now threatens the host necessitating its removal is a fact no matter how much you want to contemplate the implications for the person or the limb. Religions that refuse medical treatment based on bibical suppositions even for their children is unconscienable and absurd. Reason should dictate our actions not superstition or hysteria.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:47 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    http://www.wickedshepherds.com/abortionphotos.html - Pig fetuses? I think not. (WARNING: disturbing images)

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:04 pm on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    I as a person who supports a womans right to choose also viewed the video Mr. Taves included in his post and find it highly objectionable and in very bad taste over such a sensitive and controversial issue. As much as I feel those opposed to abortion have emotionalized to hysteria their position I do respect their position and feel a video like this is a slap in the face of both positions on the subject.

    On the aniversary of Roe V Wade it is understood that celebration is not the correct attitude to such a private,controversial issue. Even underastanding what the constant attacks by anti-abortion groups means to pro choice people that continue today it can be understood that some might find it not short of a miracle the decision remains in place. However the sleeze celebration depicted in this video will do more to rouse opponets of Roe V Wade as depicting prochoice (as satanistic) as MR Kin derman has already decided he wants to do. But it's no less than MR Kinderman choosing to show doctored photos of fetus with no other description but simply depict medical surgeries as bloody messey business. It is note worthy here that if you look at the fetus of a pig (as many other fetus) it has remakable resmblance to a human fetus including fingers and toes prior to forming hoofs.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:07 am on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    Having just now viewed the video offered by Mr. Taves had I not known that it was actually made in support of abortion and this so-called "Bill of Reproductive Rights," it could have easily been assumed to be a man representing himself as Satan celebrating the 40th anniversary of this horrid Supreme Court decision commonly known as Roe vs. Wade.

    Indeed, the continuous use of the word "baby" is so insulting and (in my opinion of course) evil that I'm going to try and obtain a copy of this video to spread around in support of an unborn child's right to breathe just once.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:51 am on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    Excellent points Mr. Taves. Of course those who say they believe that what is contained within their wombs prior to "it" taking its first breath of air is nothing more than a mass of icky, gooey "stuff," won't take ownership of anything - especially the fact that it IS a living human being simply on the wrong side of life.

  • stan taves posted at 8:54 am on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    Stan Taves Posts: 320

    "drawtheline.org" has put out a pro-abortion video featuring Mehcad Brooks -- an African American actor. The video is entitled "Happy Birthday, Baby" and it celebrates abortion in the most vile way conceivable -- to me anyway. My feelings about abortion are known to many on this blog, but allow me to reiterate if you will. If one can not defend the use of slavery, the one can not effectively defend the use of abortion. Simply put: a woman must claim ownership of the fetus in order to kill the fetus. Advocates of abortion claim that the unborn are not developed enough to have the same rights as those who would terminate their existence. Fine, but be mindful that the same rational was used to enslave an entire race of people. That said, if a woman chooses to enslave/kill her unborn child then that should be a choice made between her, and her maker; the rest of us should left of her decision. But that isn't the case when my labor is used to facilitate said enslavement. In other words, do what you think you must, but keep your blood from my hands.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:56 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    Good to know Simon. Keep up the good work and hang in there.

  • Simon Birch posted at 6:30 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Simon Birch - Online Manager Posts: 170 Staff

    Thomas: I appreciate the comment. I'm kind of like a referee or umpire, though. Commenters have to kick a lot more dirt on me or heap a lot more verbal abuse on me before I kick anyone out of the game.

    Edited by staff.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 2:13 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    Yes indeed I do believe that was a personal attack Simon. Act as you deem necessary.

  • Simon Birch posted at 8:36 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Simon Birch - Online Manager Posts: 170 Staff

    Thought provoking. You mean like calling me a "moron?"

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:52 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    I wrote incorrectly: Clearly a murder is no more or less sinful in God's eyes than bouncing a check, although we mortals obviously believe the latter to be much more egregious.

    Where I wrote "latter," clearly I meant "former." I apology for any confusion this may have caused.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:42 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    There are those who believe that all roads lead to Heaven. I cannot prescribe to that notion – not at all. Of course some would make me to be a bad person because of it; that I’m the one calling the shots on who’s in and who’s out! Even I’M not that powerful. But the God I believe in doesn’t make it all that difficult to get in either. It’s interesting though how some would actually like to tell God a thing or two about how to do His job. While I DO have some questions for Him once I’m gone, I suspect that they’ll not be very important once I’m in His presence.

    As far as I can tell there's no time limit on when someone might be "saved." Absent any Biblical reference to such a restriction, I must conclude that as long as the other rules of admission are met, the Pearly Gates will be open. Indeed, as far as "Christians" are concerned, we're told that no one can come to the Father except through Him (Jesus). All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. And ALL means ALL. Living a “good” life simply won’t do it. There’s more we must do.

    I suppose the "trick" of this (not to say that God should ever be accused of trickery) - only that He does offer salvation through His Son, but that it's completely up to us as to when we decide to make that choice - is just that: "when." As we all know, not one of us knows when we will die. A vehicular accident (car, train, airplane, skateboard) or even a sudden heart attack might occur without us being able to make that very important decision regarding where we choose to awaken once we close our eyes on Earth for the last time.

    But here's where God will be the final judge for certain: once we DO decide to follow Christ and declare Him the Son of God and all that goes with that incredible gift, we will be expected to change our ways. Clearly a murder is no more or less sinful in God's eyes than bouncing a check, although we mortals obviously believe the latter to be much more egregious. But as far as God is concerned, a sin is a sin. That being said, if a murderer declares himself a Christian but still continues to commit murder, how could anyone judge his salvation to be valid? At the same time, if a murderer commits many crimes over his lifetime yet at just a few moments prior to death he does receive Christ, would we expect his name to not appear in the Book? As long as his conversion was authentic, then he most certainly will be counted amongst the "saved." Again - where's the time limit?

    So what about the 20th Century’s worst of the worse – Adolf Hitler? What if he had sincerely received Christ prior to committing suicide with his freshly minted bride Eva Braun? Now Catholics might believe because he killed himself (in their eyes a “mortal” sin) that it might not matter if he had become a Christian a few moments prior. But I’m not a Catholic and do believe that if the conversion is sincere, ALL sins are forgiven – and Hitler would indeed be in Heaven. But such a possibility is unlikely because after committing so many atrocities and being so very bad for so very long, Hitler’s heart would certainly have been hardened to anything as loving and giving as the gift offered by Jesus Christ. But none of us will ever know until that day we die . . . including if there is a God if so, if Jesus was actually His son.

    I suppose the bottom line is that while we should certainly be as good as we can possibly be just because it’s the right thing to do, perhaps we should all seriously consider what becomes of us once we do die and then decide what we should do to prepare for that eventuality. It is coming – it’s all a matter of time.

    For anyone interested in The Gift of Salvation, the following link might provide some eye-opening assistance: http://tinyurl.com/bypf4sv

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:42 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    It is interesting to note that the nation as a whole continues to gain increasing support for the Roe V Wade decision and don't want to see its repeal. 70 % want to preserve the decision while only 9% want its complete repeal as identified in a Wall Street Journal article.


  • Ted Lauchland posted at 4:37 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Ted Lauchland Posts: 261

    Company policies and mission statements are designed to allow the entity to maintain focus and purpose. Preserving integrity and reputation for any participant in company activities such as this blog is necessary.

    If an atmosphere is not established that moves it in a forward motion it would quickly destroy itself as was witnessed as of late.

    I speak only for myself in recommending examining number five of the above policy.This gets violated quite often here and I am not without fault.

    The Bible does a great job in recommending how people should relate to each other.
    If not that then reexaminating the US Contitution and all of it's branches and their purpose could be a good idea. Freedom of speech does not stand alone.

  • Will Rainwater posted at 3:27 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Will Rainwater Posts: 45

    Well I would post something thought provoking,but it`s obvious this forum does not avail itself to freedom of speech... why bother posting your thoughts when some moron behind the scenes will just delete whatever he doesn`t like??

    Way to keep the free flow of ideas going LNS!!

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 12:28 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2106

    "Sorry - have read this a million times, but it still does not mean that anyone who lives an immoral life is entitled to the riches of the Kingdom of Heaven as long as they repent."

    Fortunately God doesn't judge man with the same unforgiving nature you seem to. Otherwise Heaven would be an empty wasteland that the likes of Paul (you know, the apostle Paul, who came to know Jesus after living a very immoral life that included persecuting Jews) would not be welcomed in.

    There are a lot of good people who led immoral pasts who turn their life around. Ex-criminals who become pillars of their community, some even become religious leaders. Former gang members who work hard to lead the next generation out of the gang life. Why would you so easily wish them an afterlife in hell?

  • Ted Lauchland posted at 11:52 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Ted Lauchland Posts: 261

    Interesting Bible class.
    Romans 12:19 can be further understood simply as
    The burdens are God's. Live better by giving them to him - Taking anything out of context is risky in interpretation.
    Studying Man's Contractual Law might further explain Mathew 20.
    As in the current tax fight in Congress whatever is decided is subject to being retroactive. - Their rules.
    3 D means space and time.
    Yes, man is a sinner.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:57 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "Obviously Ms Bobin's church doesn't teach the parable of the Workers in the Vineyard. Matthew 20 1-16."

    Sorry - have read this a million times, but it still does not mean that anyone who lives an immoral life is entitled to the riches of the Kingdom of Heaven as long as they repent. More applies to those who come to faith late in life.

    This is one reason why organized religion is distasteful because those who have "interpreted" the Bible and the Gospels, MEN, have tailored their interpretation to cover their own sins, no matter how grievous, they will be saved. And we all know that so-called religious men have committed some very egregious sins over the centuries.

    Romans 12:19 - one of the HUGE number of contradictions in the Bible that lead some to think for themselves.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 3:16 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2106

    Obviously Ms Bobin's church doesn't teach the parable of the Workers in the Vineyard. Matthew 20 1-16.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:36 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    Great post Joanne

    Religious people like to make the supposition that their religion is the catalyst for moral behavior. In actuality moral behavior is generated by parents, friends and relatives and has been since the begining of time. Even amongst the moral among us conflicts occur necessitating rules both written and unwritten. Those who enjoy the company of others want to abide by the rules. Those who make their living buying and selling to others want to follow the rules so as not to offend.
    Religion usually adopts the rules that were already in existence that people agreed upon. The advent of writting was the tech advancement of ancient civilizations that was no less than TV today. Just as TV was a kind of magic so to was anything written down. TV just rehashed a lot of what was on the radio previously, nothing really new. The written word was a collection of what was oral tradition and now available to see repeatedly without having to have a story teller.
    People continue to form rules and as a result generate new social clics of like minded people with the new rules. Hence the number of denominations of christian churches. Why there are shias, sunnis and others amongst the muslims. Why there are dozens of Buddhist sects, etc. Its because PEOPLE make the rules they want to live by.


  • Walter Chang posted at 10:57 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1184

    "Such a preposterous stance"

    Jerry, perhaps from your perspective it is?

    For if it was truly a sin...

    What would the pius among us do with all their time??


  • Ted Lauchland posted at 3:38 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Ted Lauchland Posts: 261

    Just indirectly quoting a democratic dynamic for the last election referencing the Hispanic vote. One vote that is increasing .

    Living under God's grace is a perspective.
    Man's law , generally is a reflection of that perspective.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:06 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    What exactly is preposterous here?

    I must assert that US law, state law, and local law (which is handled in "courthouses") is much different from "God's law," which is handled on Judgment Day.

    Mr. Kinderman deigns to believe that HE knows how GOD will judge individuals who commit actions that Mr. Kinderman believes are crimes (or non-"virtuous).

    This is the aspect of the Christian system of belief that salvation is achieved through belief in Jesus Christ and sins are foregiven as long as one repents. That is preposterous.

    Whoever made up the latter rule was obviously a huge sinner. One cannot go through life being a murderer, a cheat, a liar, an adulterer or whatever and then asked Jesus Christ for forgiveness and SNAP - you're saved.

    The lie that morality can only be achieved through God is false. There are many humans who know right from wrong and live very moral lives who do not believe in God. The letter from the individual in today's religion section is a clear example of the limited thinking of religious people.

    Society makes conscious rules about right and wrong that are unrelated to God. If God made these rules then there would not be so much extreme violence and vulgarity in the Old Testament perpetrated by God.

    Preposterous, indeed!!

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:59 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    "Not for us to judge?" Then I suppose it's time for us to shut down all the courthouses - not just the one in Lodi.

    Such a preposterous stance.

  • Walter Chang posted at 8:21 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Walt Posts: 1184

    "God says it is not for us to judge"

    Jerry take note.


  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:38 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    Whew. Skating real close to that racist cliff here.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 3:36 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    Mr Lauchlland
    Your post here makes little sense. None beliefs? I might assume atheist but I could be wrong. "Weekend Warriors"? Hummmm. Trying to make the LNS believe what exactly? But your post is somewhat of a break from the previous religious zealot rants of an emotionally hysterical poster. However you might want to check out the religious section of the paper for future sermonizings.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 3:29 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "A beautiful man?"

    A man who believes that people who use birth control get their just desserts in the form of cancer and impotence?

    One or both here need some counseling.

    Most of the above is sheer nonsense. Especially the claim that Anglos are aborting themselves into extinction and "legal" Mexicans will be taking over.

    What type of person THINKS like that?

  • Ted Lauchland posted at 2:24 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Ted Lauchland Posts: 261

    And for good measure - Religious beliefs - your none beliefs are religious beliefs as well - are not strictly " Weekend Warriors " as some of you want to make the LNS believe.

  • Ted Lauchland posted at 2:09 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Ted Lauchland Posts: 261

    Mr. Van Amber Fields - I believe you ARE a beautiful man. Your letter however appears to be a bit too Old Testament for my taste however . I have evidence that refutes some of your statements about cancer and such relating to punishment for wrong doings. Acting like we can work our way to heaven contradicts my belief in why the savior came in the first place.

    Mr. Kinderman, I would not worry too much about the celebration of R. verses W. . I hear the band playing - don't you? I listen to music while weeding my vineyard. I'm sure God does too. If these guys insist on eliminating their own posterity from life on this earth then so be it. God says it is not for us to judge. The meek shall inheret the earth.

    I fight for life on this earth while I am on this earth . God cries for those who do not believe and outright rejects him. Go forth and multiply he says. I am not a zealous religious believer and I don't think God wants us to be. He put brains in our heads and expects us to use them. When it is time to come home he welcomes us whole heartly.

    How ironic though. Obamacare is accused of death panels. Playing god is all up and down the line.

    How ironic though. Build a huge fence and guard it with guns to keep out illegal aliens. It would have to be better than ten thousand miles long and reach skyward to the moon and the center of the earth to do justice.

    How ironic though. There are legal Mexicans living here now. They believe in large families. They know how to live all together in one house. They have family still living in Mexico. They are primarily Catholic believers. Their numbers are increasing rapidly in the US. . Voters quickly becoming a factor in elections and laws. They will eventually out vote you and me. It doesn't matter color of skin - the story is the same. - And you all still stand their demanding your right to stop your family lines without any guilt what so ever.
    Wolves kill sheep and each other , but there are alot of sheep.
    The meek shall indeed inheret the earth. Every one else will have abortioned each other.

  • Ed Walters posted at 1:15 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 631

    Bobin: It seems that all the men you stated were the ones that came to mind at the time. While I would not call Rodham Clinton virtuous, words cannot express her feeling about the biggest cheat, phony ect. ect. who just happened to be her husband and the President of the United States, who like Lance Armstrong deined any wrong doing untill enough pressure was applied and the truth was brought to the public. The tip of the iceburg is showing, who knows what lies beneath.

    I will not judge anyone, thats not my forte. However a person sleeping in a doorway with cardboard for a blanket and a 5 year old shopping cart with all his possessions and an old mut is not a leader in a fortune 500 company, I won`t judge, however I can come to a conclusion.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:50 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Was curious about the deleted comment.

    Those comments and this letter are extremely offensive considering that 90%+ women (and many, many men) use birth control at some point in their lives.

    The suggestion that cancer and impotence are deserved "penalties" for using either organic or surgical methods of birth control, especially from ANYONE who purports to be religious is disgusting.

    People with extremely personal issues with women and those of the misogynistic bent should seek help, either psychiatric or spiritual.

    I don't approve of judging people by their appearances, but I'm curious what "cult" this letter writer belongs to:


  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:56 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    Joanne This morning Mr. Kinderman went flat out troll on us his comments are remarkably insulting to my wife and daughter who both happen to be liberal and have both used birth control at some point in there life. His comments suggest that even a married women who desires to discontinue procreation is somehow tainted and that if they wish to continue having sex with their partner they must continue to bear children through out their fertile years. This line of reasoning is outstanding and I couldn't agree more that he should consult his spiritual leader to perhaps get advice.
    I think he got caught backing the ranting nonsense of this letter writer and is busy trying create cover, even this morning he is defending the statements of a posting that needed to be removed due to it's offensive nature.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:22 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "On the other hand, in my humble opinion of course any woman who uses abortion simply because she's not ready to procreate then her virtue is eliminated."

    Again, this person seriously should have a solid conversation with his spiritual leader about his propensity to judge, something that, for a TRUE BELIEVER, must be left to GOD.

    Hypocrisy at its best. And shameful at the very least.

    "Maybe that “virtue” applies only to conservative women."

    REALLY? So now only "conservative women" are virtuous?

    Maybe Mr. Kinderman is on to something here. Conservative women don't stoop to prostitute themselves, they RUN the prostituion business - the "Mayflower Madam" for example.

    And the best of virtuousness is left to conservative MEN - evangelicals Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Bakker, Ted Haggerd - and then there are the conservative politicians who have the market on virtuousness sewn up - Mark Foley, Newt Gingrich, Mark Sandford, Larry Craig and on and on.

    Conservative women are so busy being "virtuous" they cannot keep track of their "virtuous" husbands.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 6:52 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    Oh bother - it's a euphemism to suggest that the best way to prevent pregnancy is to refrain from sexual intercourse. The "aspirin" notion has been in existence for a long time.

    But of course there are those who truly believe that as human beings, we actually lack the fortitude and/or responsible attitude to avoid pregnancy - from both sexes. I would think a woman's right to choose would include her right and responsibility to say "no." But then again I could be wrong. Maybe that “virtue” applies only to conservative women.

  • Andy Crowder posted at 4:23 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245


  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 4:12 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    What "virtue?" Having a baby? Virtue isn't being capable of producing a child, it's what one does after the birth of the child. That of course presupposes that said woman would see the pregnancy through to its natural conclusion: the creation of a living and breathing human being. On the other hand, in my humble opinion of course any woman who uses abortion simply because she's not ready to procreate then her virtue is eliminated. Just as any man who has a child and fails to be there for him/her as they grow to maturity loses his virtue. The greatest gifts I've ever received are my children.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:58 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    OOPS - that should have been "You CAN'T always get what you want!"

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:57 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Some good thoughts, Mr. Walters. Wow - a Mick Jagger reference! - you are right - "You can always get what you want...."

    I agree with the comments of many here and do not comment to ONLY agree with myself. That is just plain silly.

    Thanks for picking up on WVAF's ridiculous claim that birth control causes cancer.

    I have ALWAYS stated that if people were educated about birth control and actually used it, the need for abortion would be greatly reduced. That is my greatest wish for society. In the meantime, abortion should be a legal option.

    Unfortunately, those such as WVAF who oppose BOTH birth control (and desire to spread misinformation about birth control) and abortion only wish to return society to the era before the birth of Jesus Christ (and much of the time after) and force women to procreate against their wills. Solely a demonstration of religious zealotry.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:39 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Washington (CNN) – Forty years after the Supreme Court protected abortion rights in Roe v. Wade, a new survey finds that white evangelicals remain the only major religious group that supports overturning the landmark ruling, even though most such groups find abortion morally wrong.

    Slightly more than half (54%) of white evangelicals, according to the Pew Research Center study, favor completely overturning the 1973 Supreme Court decision that affirmed a woman’s right to have an abortion. No other religious group, including white mainline Protestants, black Protestants and white Catholics, agreed with completely overturning the ruling.

    In fact, substantial majorities of white Protestants (76%), black Protestants (65%) and white Catholics (63%) say the ruling should not be over turned, the survey found.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:58 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    MR Kinderman
    Ms Reed speaks to truth. Of course you would insist women are not endowed with that particular virtue. Shame on you.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 1:52 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    This is like the Karen Shivo case I spoke of before, there was a beating heart but NO LIFE.

  • Ed Walters posted at 1:12 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 631

    After reading the Kinderman, Barrow report on a subject that has no beginning nor end, I would recommend a time out. It almost emulates which is better cable or satellite reception for TV`s. If everyone ( especially woman ) would follow a simple solution, there would be no need for a 3 hour old baby that was not wanted in the first place being found in a garbage bag in a dumpster. A simple pill would stop something that never happened in the first place. Many woman, and mostly men simply do not want another baby or one in the first place, also the morning after pill should be accepted since it also stopped an unwanted pregnancy from happening. Getting a vasectomy is rather simple and frees up have sex any time without the worries or concerns of a flat stomach turning into a baby bump. William Van`s father said something that I believe Mick Jagger said first, turning it around a bit, you do not always get what you want. Only 9 people can make a law that the country must follow, who you ask, why the Supremes of course by a 5-4 decession. I would suppose Bobin will find fault with my endever, the only one she ever agrees with is herself. As my letter will be edited, hopfully I will make the cut since I didn`t slam anyone, as it was not my intention to do so. According to reports, cell phones are a bigger contributor to cancer rather than a laytex condom.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:06 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    "When men can have a baby then they can have an opinion."

    Such an utterly absurd notion. That hardly deserves a response; therefore other than these few words, this should suffice.

  • shelly reed posted at 12:39 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Shelly Reed Posts: 4

    When men can have a baby then they can have an opinion...
    When all men susport their child, with not only money but with their time, I'll hear their opinions.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 12:20 pm on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    Even though MR Kinderman has said himself that he doesn't believe anything posted here will change anybodies opinion he insists on repeatative posts believing frequency will some how find a convert. He says he is just giving his opinion to the topic of this LTE which would seem fair in and of itself. However you can read this opinion during the LGBT parade float letter and as recently as yesterday during the discussion of gun control and it was even pointed out that it was off topic. So to say well hes just commenting on the letter du jour fails to take in to consideration that ITS ALL BEEN SAID BEFORE and to crusade an issue reflects he truely goes against his own statement and believes he can change an opinion if he can just reword an obnoxious tired delivery.

  • Eric Barrow posted at 10:56 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    Not only does he claim contraceptives justly cause cancer but he also blames violence in the US on abortions maybe we should follow the lead of other countries where abortion is illegal like Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Somalia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan. It appears the lack of abortions has not stopped the violence in other countries.

    Obviously anyone this superstitious does not have a firm grip on reality what I can't understand is why the LNS would print such garbage.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:32 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Second: "Just one breath away. How sad."

    Since 88% of all abortions are performed in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, it is VERY unlikely that the fetus was "Just one breath away."

    Mr. Kinderman continually displays his ignorance of reproduction, abortion, societal issues, etc., and has an extremely negative view of women, who he claims totally control whether an abortion is chosen or not.

    I certainly respect his right to have his view which seems to stem from his religious convictions. But that's where the respect ends - especially since he has, here, designated the murders of 20 BORN children to a status of non-importance.

    When I see him taking personal action by standing on the picket line in front of the Planned Parenthood clinic in Stockton, or learn that he volunteers at the Lodi Crisis Pregnancy Center to council girls and women on the evils of abortion, I'll be more convinced.

    Until then it's just pontificating and misogyny.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:17 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    So, let's examine a couple of assertions made in this letter and comments.

    Those who use birth control, either organic or surgical, get what they deserve - CANCER and IMPOTENCE.

    Wonder what the use of condoms gives one - some disease related to allergies to latex or lamb intestines?

    I'm sure that Mr. Kinderman, who has enthusiastically endorsed the contents of this letter, agrees that CANCER is a DESERVED result of the use of birth control.

    And how DARE we cry or wear pink ribbons when one GETS WHAT THEY DESERVE!!!!!

    From Cancer.gov:

    - A number of studies suggest that current use of oral contraceptives (birth control pills) appears to slightly increase the risk of breast cancer, especially among younger women. However, the risk level goes back to normal 10 years or more after discontinuing oral contraceptive use.

    - Women who use oral contraceptives have reduced risks of ovarian and endometrial cancer. This protective effect increases with the length of time oral contraceptives are used.

    - Oral contraceptive use is associated with an increased risk of cervical cancer; however, this increased risk may be because sexually active women have a higher risk of becoming infected with human papillomavirus, which causes virtually all cervical cancers.

    - Women who take oral contraceptives have an increased risk of benign liver tumors, but the relationship between oral contraceptive use and malignant liver tumors is less clear.

    Conclusion: WVAF should be ignored and his opinions should be printed in the RELIGION section of this paper, if at all.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:03 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "I've never once "pontificated" against anyone's right to do anything."

    From Dictionary.com:

    "Pontificate: to speak in a pompous or dogmatic manner."

    You must be joking? Everything Mr. Kinderman says is pompous and dogmatic.

    "Pompous: characterized by an ostentatious display of dignity or importance."

    "Dogmatic: asserting opinions in a doctrinaire or arrogant manner; opinionated."

    "Opinionated: obstinate or conceited with regard to the merit of one's own opinions."

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:40 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    "Enough already?" "Rules?" If I've violated the rules (or if you believe I have), simply point your mouse to the "Report" link, give it a left-click and give it your best shot. Or if you're really REALLY tired of all this send an e-mail to Mr. Hanner. He'll most certainly take your complaints under advisement and act accordingly.

    But I don't believe I've violated any of the rules here. Today we have a new letter from Mr. Van Amber Fields. It concerns with the upcoming anniversary of Roe v. Wade. It is most appropriate that his letter be printed and that we be given the opportunity to offer our opinions about not only his letter but the issue at hand.

    So here's a suggestion: since you find it tedious and a waste of time to be “forced” to read a comment only to realize you shouldn't have read it in the first place, simply take a look at who posted it. When you see my name and/or face, act accordingly: ignore it. Or don't - I really don't care.

    But to suggest that I have been given some kind of preferential treatment and have been permitted to violate the rules with impunity is simply nonsense. I am certainly not responsible for you wasting your own time. That sounds like something a young child might offer as an excuse as to why they didn't finish their homework. Do you have any idea how silly that sounds? Good grief.

    Now I could certainly believe that your most recent comment is “Off Topic,” but since I find it so amusing I’ve offered my opinion about it. As a result I refrained from clicking on the “Report” link.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 9:26 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    "Challenged?" So while seemingly wanting to protect the rights of others, my First Amendment right to believe as I choose is dangerous to a "civilized" society? Wow; Unbelievable!

    I've never once "pontificated" against anyone's right to do anything. I've only been attempting to reveal abortion for what it truly is: the denial of the unborn of THEIR right to draw that first breath. To even suggest that the child within the mother's womb isn't "life" is laughable - it has no merit.

    But where we seem to really disagree is that I value human life more than a tree or some tiny smelt in the Delta. To carelessly deny human life should be an affront to ALL freedom-loving Americans. Of course we'll never know what the 40 million people might have contributed to this civilized society, but I don't think I'm too far off the mark to suggest that there were a lot of good ones. Who knows, maybe there were some actual leaders, artists, musicians, or just regular folks who would have added to this society just by living.

    What makes me ill is that as a nation we simply don't care anymore. As a result, I am absolutely confident that our best days have come and are now gone. We're on the downhill side of America. I fear for my children and their children. What a pathetic lot we've become.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 9:16 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    MR Kinderman
    We are still trying to determine the rules. There are the written rules above then there are the unwritten rules that cause commenting to be shut off or comments to vanish (sometimes understandably but often inexplicably) which doesn't seem to be written anywhere till an editor(s) makes an announcement. The rules talk about stay on topic and keep it nice but as we know you and Mr Maple are allowed exceptions to these rules. Now I fully believe we are adults here and if someone wants to say their opinion I would never want to be accused of being nit picky but your tired rants appear to violate some of the written as well as the unwritten rules we are trying to understand. For those who frequent this forum the opportunity to gain more insight into a community concern is a valued opportunity. To get a rehash of whats already been said several times now becomes tedious and time wasting. You can't just ignore it because you have to read it to find out you should have ignored it. Six months from now it may become fresh again (especially with new visitors) but for now it smacks of crusade and that turns a community forum into a personal pulpit. Enough already.

  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:42 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    I find those zealots that use religion to justify everything from bad manners to the stripping away of freedoms to be dangerous to a civilized society and not something to be ignored but rather something to be challenged. Interesting that the same people who cry foul when it comes to the second amendment can't see the importance of the rest of our freedoms.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 8:37 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    "No life before the first breath?" Really? I know of no one who would agree with such a claim. A simple sonogram proves that to be nonsense. Of course the baby within the womb is living; it's had "life" since conception. What it's denied is the right to live; to have that first breath. That is Roe v. Wade. And we're supposed to celebrate that?

    This isn’t simply a “woman’s right to choose,” it’s a “woman’s right to choose to kill her unborn child.” If they would embrace that one truth, who’s going to lead the parade down 5th Avenue on January 22nd? Or are there not going to be any parades? Hmm, curious.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 8:28 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    What's so wrong with comparing the horrible murder of 20 children with the eradication of over 40 Million human beings that were never given the chance to live?

    We're a nation on the brink. When we blithely turn our backs on so many souls lost to the tools of the abortionists, we expose ourselves as uncaring; unfeeling. Someone claims that it's too soon since Newtown to make such comparisons regarding their lives, but nothing is offered from them against the political posturing to alter the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Do they really believe that those murdered children are not now being used to further a political cause? No, they join in! How offensive is that?!?

  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:19 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    Thanks Thomas this letter has the stench of Westboro on it and the LNS should be ashamed it allowed it to be printed the man with four names obviously has issues and it is indecent for this paper to take advantage of him in this way.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 8:19 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    Just as the News-Sentinel has provided us with this forum to rant or otherwise offer our opinions, there's no one forcing anyone out here to read these comments. So what's the problem? As long as we abide by the Rules of Conduct, there should be no problem.

    Most of the time I simply ignore those things that I find offensive or ridiculous. Even that infuriates those who claim I refuse to engage. The hypocrisy is quite telling.

    Ignore us!! We really won't be offended.

    On the other hand, since this IS the 40th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, it’s an excellent time to revisit that horrible decision and expose the facts. Over 40 Million human lives lost? Yeah, that’s something to celebrate! Just one breath away. How sad.

  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:11 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    For this letter writer to blame the violence that occured in Conetticut on abortion is stepping over a line and is at best obscene. This sort of garbage should have not been allowed into our local paper it's hardly been a month since the tragedy in Newtown, for this individual to use it to further his extreme views is vulgar.

  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:04 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    Pathetic, if you don't want to have an abortion don't but don't try to take away the freedom of others to live as they see fit. Your constant demeaning of the children lost in Connecticut to further you zealous attitude toward abortion is disgusting.

  • Thomas Heuer posted at 8:02 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    nth degree wise Posts: 1669

    If LNS thought the discussion on the LGBT parade float was exhausted and further comments deemed unwanted is there a reason for continuing the same repeatative "dead babies" hysteria to be cobntinued by the same letter writer and commenter? Am I to repeat myself again and say that there is no life before the first breath? While everyone says over again their familliar comments? MR Kinderman has managed to put away his regular Obama rants and instead repeatedly turn any other topic discussion into an abortion discussion complete with bibical prognostications ad nauseum.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:57 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    Since a tangent has been inserted in this discourse, I wonder how many others here would agree that "It is long past time for the LNS to reign (sic) in the ranting of this individual?"

    A citizen offers his opinion and ideas on a particular subject in a city's local newspaper and it's time to limit this? As far as I know, there is no law or right preventing someone from being offended. Welcome to free speech! Thank God someone IS offended.

    But more to the point, just what is it that has them so afraid? Maybe it's their consciences that are speaking to them - hooray for Jiminy!! There IS hope!

    Or have we suddenly gone Off Topic? Rein me in? Good luck!

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:47 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    I am so ashamed of myself for agreeing with the author of this letter. Will someone please direct me to the nearest city hosting the 40th Anniversary Roe v. Wade parade. In fact, January should be designated as Abortions for All Month. [happybirthday] Or should that be Happy UN-Birthday?

    Indeed, how offensive is it that as a nation we gleefully ignore and CELEBRATE! the millions of lost children to the abortionists' trade? These aren't doctors; they're garbage men! No? Aren't they simply removing unwanted waste from the wombs of potential mothers who've decided that it "just isn't the right time for me to have a baby?" And then the waste is tossed away just as effortlessly as the previous night's dinner. But let's take a quick look at just what is being thrown away, ok? (Hold on to your stomachs - and your souls!): http://tinyurl.com/9xxwy

    What are we really celebrating, a woman’s right to choose; or a human life destroyed even before it had the chance be born? One breath away – that’s all it is. What a decrepit nation we’ve become.

  • Eric Barrow posted at 7:07 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    It is long past time for the LNS to reign in the ranting of this individual. Many comments on this forum are deleted due to their offensive nature but this individual is free to spew his verbal diarrhea at will. How a letter as offensive as this makes it into the local paper is a mystery and an embarrassment to this community.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:02 am on Thu, Jan 17, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2370

    Well said and very well written Mr. Van Amber Fields. January 22nd should include just a moment of silence for the millions lost to the abortionists' violence. It's interesting that ever since the twenty children were murdered by a mentally disturbed gun-wielding madman that has the President of the United States taking unilateral action in a pathetic attempt to reduce gun-relating killings, virtually none of our so-called leaders having taken the point to reduce the 1.2 million per year (on average) human babies murdered in what should be the safe confines of their mothers' wombs.

    We mourn the twenty but ignore the millions - what does that say about us as a nation? Not much; not much at all. We WILL have to answer for this atrocity.


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