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Letter: Capitalism has ups, downs; socialism just gets worse

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Posted: Saturday, January 18, 2014 12:00 am

I am compelled to respond to the letter by John Cooper, “Capitalism proves wealth redistribution works,” Jan. 11. He obviously failed to do his homework.

I will match my combat record against anyone. Mr. Cooper failed to grasp what actually happened in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Did you ever hear of Pol Pot?

As to capitalism, it provides opportunity for good and bad. Socialism only gets worse over time. Mr. Cooper should visit Cuba or eastern Europe, and read up on Stalin, Mao, Fidel and Che. Certainly we have bad capitalists just like we have Democrats and liberals. The key is we have a choice.

Jerry Osgood

Galt

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Welcome to the discussion.

40 comments:

  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:12 am on Wed, Jan 29, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    YOUR health is messed up because of YOUR military service? Hilarious. What branch of the military did YOU serve with?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:54 am on Wed, Jan 29, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Bobbin posted ; "I dare you to find ONE quote of MINE where I said wealthy people DIDN'T HAVE the legal right to take tax deductions and pay what they pay,"

    I said you BEMOAN wealthy people who pay what they LEGALLY owe on their taxes. Are you saying you never went on a rant about Romney’s taxes? I can produce several of your posts doing just that if you like.
    Again, YOU didn’t do SQUAT earn anything free from the VA, your husband did, YOU didn’t. You join the ranks of the moochers that have figured out how to get something for nothing. Congratulations.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 5:19 pm on Mon, Jan 27, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Baxxter wrote: "Oh, gotcha, you mean like "Loonie Liberals", "DumboCrats" and "Liberal Lemmings" to name few. Apparently you like making things up. Keep up the liberal propaganda, there are liberal morons that believe it and eat it up."

    Wow! Baxxter is surpassing the record of Mr. Liebich for insults and personal attacks. Mr. Liebich SOMEHOW reformed himself. Perhaps Baxxter needs to find out how he did it.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 5:15 pm on Mon, Jan 27, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    I dare you to find ONE quote of MINE where I said wealthy people DIDN'T HAVE the legal right to take tax deductions and pay what they pay, Baxxter.

    I've earned it. I'm using it. And since that got your panties all in a bunch, I won't tell you about all the other FREE MONEY available to me from the VA.

    Wouldn't want you to have a stroke!

    I can only quote Mr. Kinderman: "You must be jealous."

    I'm sure you are SO SAD that your health isn't so messed up from your military service that you and your "loved ones," (I use the term loosely) cannot have the same advantages.

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 4:07 pm on Mon, Jan 27, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Joe Baxter writes: "Oh brother, another load of liberal dumpster stew. Swallow the kool aid
    Mr. Gilder."

    Is it possible for you to try to refute my point with something substantive rather than resorting to insulting rightwing clichés?

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 4:01 pm on Mon, Jan 27, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Joe, relax... you're being paranoid; "TEApublican" isn't an insult and you can't equate it with your derogatory names for liberals. I type: "TEApublican" because I don't want to type: "Republicans, Libertarians and Tea Party people" every time I refer to people that argue your positions.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:20 am on Mon, Jan 27, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Oh, gotcha, you mean like "Loonie Liberals", "DumboCrats" and "Liberal Lemmings" to name few. Apparently you like making things up. Keep up the liberal propaganda, there are liberal morons that believe it and eat it up.

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 2:50 pm on Sun, Jan 26, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Joe Baxter wrote: "I never said you 'made up things'..."

    Joe Baxter previously wrote: "Oh my, now your rhetoric smacks of liberal talking points, none of which are facts, only fantasy."

    Do you understand the meaning of the words you're using?

    Anyway, "TEApublican" is a time-saving word I use that covers most conservatives. Libertarians fall under this heading as well. I don't know what you consider yourself to be, but I can guarantee if you described it, it would also fall under this heading.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:26 am on Sun, Jan 26, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Amusinig that you declare you have a "legal right" to free stuff but bemoan wealthy people who legally pay what they owe in income taxes. Legal is legal, right?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:31 am on Sun, Jan 26, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Bobbin, two words for you know it all mind PASSIVE INCOME.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:51 am on Sun, Jan 26, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    TEApublican's? First off, I do not belong to the Tea Party, secondly I am not a Republican. See what liberals do. They ASSUME because people don't swallow their propaganda, they must be affiliated with their favorite two targets to vilify. It really makes them look pretty simple. I never said you "made up things" but you certainly spin them to suit your agenda. But, since when do liberals care about truth?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:16 am on Sun, Jan 26, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    AGAIN, YOU didn't do squat to earn your FREE taxpayer funded insurance. Another way to sponge off of the hard working people. You must be so proud.

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 2:50 pm on Sat, Jan 25, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Joe writes: "now your rhetoric smacks of liberal talking points, none of which are facts, only fantasy."

    Really... Joe... I suppose I made up things like the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. Instead of embarrassing yourself and diminishing any credibility you hope to have by making ignorant blanket dismissals of the facts I presented, why don't you demonstrate exactly why you think they are false? I always find it amusing when discussing these issues with TEApublicans that they have nothing to back up their rhetoric. It's just like that Emperor's New Clothes fable.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:13 pm on Fri, Jan 24, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    The REAL Christie? Oh, gotcha, you believe the liberal propaganda press and find Christy guilty without a shred of evidence, yet give a pass to the stooges like Killary, Holder, Sebelius, et al when they flat out LIE. Liberal propagandists hard at work trying to trash any and all threats to the 2016 election, truth be damned. You remember moron Reid's claim that Romney didn't pay taxes for the last 10 years before the last election? It is what liberals do, lie, lie, lie and Obama is their Liar in Chief. Knuckle dragging liberals idolize him like he is some sort of diety with their hands out for their "entitlements"..
    So pathetic.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:06 pm on Fri, Jan 24, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    What liberal policies are "working"? I mean, REALLY working? America better off today after 5 years of a clueless president making unconstitutional policy by decree? More people unemployed than ever, more people on food stamps than ever, more people on welfare than ever, higher debt than ever, and yet the liberals scream " see how great our great are". What a crock of hogwash. Hard to convince someone who actually investigates the claims instead of taking the liberals word as facts. Liberals are so gullible.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 2:42 pm on Fri, Jan 24, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Your "point" that these were SUCCESSFUL socialist programs. NOT TRUE.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 2:29 pm on Fri, Jan 24, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Oh my, now your rhetoric smacks of liberal talking points, none of which are facts, only fantasy. But, you liberals keep trying to sell your hogwash, obviously some morons will fall for it.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:18 am on Fri, Jan 24, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Baxxter wrote: "Bobbin, in order to get “fat” SS checks, as you call them, you must contribute to SS your entire working career. Except for part time jobs during school and military, I have been self employed. I do get a small SS check, but it isn’t enough to fill one wing tank. I do quite nicely on my own without the assistance of entitlements funded by the taxpayers. Your taxpayer funded insurance kick in yet?"

    So you are admitting that you have NEVER contributed to SS while you were self-employed? I think that is called cheating on your tax returns. Self-employed individuals must contribute 15.3% of their income and are allowed to deduct half of that as a business expense. What happened? I think SOMEONE is telling tales out of school here. Chuckle!

    And yes, I am enjoying having taxpayer funded insurance after being uninsured for 5 years due to a pre-existing condition. Love my VA benefits!! Not only is the VA paying for my health insurance, they are also paying for a whole variety of things I have a legal right to collect.

    As for your prior comment that "you didn't do squat to earn them," I think you denigrate not only MY support of my husband's military career, but also ALL of the other military families who get dependent benefits due to their husband's/wife's sacrifices. Shame on you.

    Too bad the LNS took exception to my comment of a few weeks ago in which I expressed the above. I guess it was my "PS" that got me censored.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:30 am on Fri, Jan 24, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:29 am on Fri, Jan 24, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 2:04 am on Fri, Jan 24, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    I forgot to click on the extender...

    6) Libraries are socialist in essence because they are government run and open to everyone. Republicans hate that sort of thing so their tactics are trying to choke off funding--this is the way Republicans try to beat back any social programs; they want to be able to profit and limit access to affluent people. Same old story. But Regardless of Republicans trying to undermine it, it's still socialist... the point of the discussion that I made.

    Reagan's strategy was called "starve the beast" meaning to create a fiscal crisis so social programs will be put on the chopping block. You can't blame the effects of this tactic on the programs being targeted... that would be like blaming the rape victim for the rape.

    7) The National guard is a government run program. Do you even understand what the socialist aspects of government are?

    Here's a breakdown of where the ACA law stands: Republicare means insurance companies can gouge people and sell them shoddy plans they can be bumped from and a host of other serious problems Americans have been struggling with... and the insurance companies can charge whatever they like--often it's 60% profit. Obamacare outlaws the shoddy practices and limits profits to 20%. Government run healthcare doesn't gouge people and administration costs are usually 3%. I certainly don't choose Republicare... I don't want to be gouged and ripped off. You seem to prefer that... what would you call THAT disease? I would personally prefer a single-payer system like the advanced countries have. Obamacare is a steppingstone to that.

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 6:54 pm on Thu, Jan 23, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Joe, repeating false GOP talking points won't gain yourself any ground. I'll address your points:

    1) Social Security has a $2.5-trillion trust fund with more money coming in each year. The money is "invested" (what you call "IOUs) in a federal government that paid out $117.5 billion in interest in 2010. If nothing is done to adjust SS funds, in 2036, the trust fund itself will be depleted. That's not "fast becoming" and there's time to make adjustments. Ask anyone if they want their SS benefits to cease and they will tell you they won't. You statements about SS are unfounded and false. SS remains one of the most successful socialist programs.

    2) It is true that USPS is facing fiscal challenges as communication technology advances, but one of the biggest problems it faces is having to meet a $5.5 billion mandated payment every year thanks to a GOP bill called the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act, (PAEA). Under PAEA, USPS is forced to pre-fund its future health care benefit payments to retirees for the next 75 years in an astonishing ten-year time span — meaning that it had to put aside billions of dollars to pay for the health benefits of employees it hasn’t even hired yet, or who are even born yet for that matter... something that no other government or private corporation is required to do. So if you're looking for extreme waste and mismanagement look no further than the Republicans in congress that passed such an absurd and damaging law.

    3) Before Reaganomics began shifting public money into the hands of a tiny minority of wealthy elite the US had a flourishing public school system that ranked highest in the world. When you have the GOP choking off revenue and creating a budget crisis, the cuts that result are bound to have a negative impact. The Republicans are thrilled with this of course because they want to privatize education so wealthy people will profit from it and only the rich will have access. So, yes, the socialism represented by public schools was very successful until Republicans proclaimed war on it and tries to destroy it.

    Joe Baxter wrote: "4. Medicare = Another taxpayer funded program that the politicians have manage to rob to fund their pet programs, most having nothing to do with medical care."

    You need to substantiate this before I'll comment.

    5) My point was that the police are a socialist program, i.e., government run. Your point here is irrelevant.

    So my point still stands... sorry... better luck next time.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:04 pm on Thu, Jan 23, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Bobbin, in order to get “fat” SS checks, as you call them, you must contribute to SS your entire working career. Except for part time jobs during school and military, I have been self employed. I do get a small SS check, but it isn’t enough to fill one wing tank. I do quite nicely on my own without the assistance of entitlements funded by the taxpayers. Your taxpayer funded insurance kick in yet?

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:24 pm on Thu, Jan 23, 2014.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1501

    O Joe it must be driving you crazy watching liberal policies working, not just in the great state of California but also on a federal level and the best chance the right had of regaining the White House is slipping away as the real Christie shows his face. As things continue to improve I think the dreams the right had of taking back the Senate are turning out to be just that, dreams and sorry I know it makes you and your fly boy buddies uncomfortable but a defense program of any kind paid for by all the people, to benefit and protect all the people is a socialist program.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:46 am on Thu, Jan 23, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    FYI - Mr. Liebich - I was speaking of Baxxter specifically since he has bragged in this forum that he has done so well in his career that he could afford to retire at 50. It naturally follows that he is most likely eligible for a higher than "average" SS benefit.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 6:21 pm on Wed, Jan 22, 2014.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1374

    I found this:
    "Social Security checks are modest and shrinking. The average retirement benefit is $14,000 a year. This is less than a full-time minimum wage worker earns. For a medium earner retiring at 65, benefits replace 41 percent of pre-retirement earnings, down from 52 percent in 1981. This replacement rate is scheduled to drop in the next 15 years to a meager 36 percent."

    at

    http://lobotero.com/2011/12/29/lies-about-social-security/

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:25 pm on Wed, Jan 22, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Mr. Gilder posted: "Of course; socialism in the US government has produced some of the most successful programs"
    Let's look at the programs he offered up as proof that socialism has produced some of the most "successful programs".
    1. Social Security = Raided by corrupt politicians replacing hard earned taxpayer money with worthless I.O.U's, fast becoming insolvent. Thank you Democrats.
    2. The Post Office = Broke and running billions of dollars in the red because of extreme waste and mismanagement.
    3.Public Schools = Produces some of the poorest scholastic results in the world despite the high spending per student compared to countries with higher scholastic achievement. .
    4. Medicare = Another taxpayer funded program that the politicians have manage to rob to fund their pet programs, most having nothing to do with medical care.
    5. Police departments = High paid employees eventually becoming high paid
    retirees, some collecting more after retirement than they earned while employed, thanks to the corrupt unions.
    5. Fire Departments = See police departments.
    6. Libraries = I assume he means public libraries. They are getting shuttered frequently because the cost to maintain them is too high and funds have been diverted to more "important" programs.
    7. National Guard = Mandated by the Constitution, state and federal funded. Only a liberal would consider a national defense program as socialism.

    Now the government is managing our health care? What could possibly go wrong with that lame idea?
    What is it with the liberals who think that a fiscally responsible government and one that abides by the U.S. Constitution is not what America should embrace? Yes, indeed, liberalism IS a mental disease.

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 3:43 pm on Wed, Jan 22, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Ed is only doing what comes natural for TEApublicans; he has no actual rebuttal so he focuses on the messenger personally. In other words, it's easier to criticize someone's physical appearance than it is to challenge their ideas with anything substantive.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:35 am on Wed, Jan 22, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "Fat SS check"???

    Social Security checks are modest and shrinking. The average retirement benefit is $14,000 a year. This is less than a full-time minimum wage worker earns. For a medium earner retiring at 65, benefits replace 41 percent of pre-retirement earnings, down from 52 percent in 1981. This replacement rate is scheduled to drop in the next 15 years to a meager 36 percent.
    [sleeping]

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:31 am on Wed, Jan 22, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Ed - Why have you NOT given the SAME ZZ Top designation to William Van Amber Fields? Because he is a religious conservative? Do you just MOCK liberals?

    Seems so.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:29 am on Wed, Jan 22, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    So, Baxxter - YOU are willing to give up that fat SS check? Oh, that's right - you have (according to your posts) the where-with-all to afford your luxurious life in retirement sans SS.

    What load of "liberal dumpster stew" are you complaining about now?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 7:07 am on Wed, Jan 22, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1845

    Oh brother, another load of liberal dumpster stew. Swallow the kool aid
    Mr. Gilder.

     
  • Ed Walters posted at 5:45 pm on Tue, Jan 21, 2014.

    the old dog Posts: 507

    Jack Gilder, i.e. ZZ Top: You state that the US carpet bombing in Cambodia made Pol Pot rise to power. Do you realize you are doing the same thing, only you and many like you do it with a computer.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:42 am on Mon, Jan 20, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    [thumbup]

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 9:07 pm on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Walt Posts: 1117

    "you support socialism"

    No. Nobody said that.

    Folks, Jerry's projecting between the lines again.

    Let's clarify...

    Jack informed Jerry Osgood of the fact that Nixon was responsible for Pol Pot's successes.

    He then suggest that Jerry Osgood is a neophyte at political science, and a poor student who's unwilling or unable to do the required research and properly complete his assignments before submission.

    Jack wraps up by properly classifying Jerry Osgood's latest effort as "Comedic Entertainment" that's worthy of a hearty chuckle. Enjoy!


    [smile]

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 7:38 pm on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    You mean like Social Security, Medicare, the Post Office, Libraries, police and fire departments, Public Schools, national guard, etc., etc. Of course; socialism in the US government has produced some of the most successful programs. It was the socialist programs under FDR that rescued us from the Republican Great Depression of the 30s. Government spending and a progressive tax code kept the books straight and paid off the WWII war debt and established the most properous and productive period un US history... until Reagan lowered the tax rate for the upper tier back to Great Depression levels and and 30 years of Reaganomics funnled most of the nation's wealth into the hands of a tiny minority while the GOP chipped away at safeguards that were put in place to prevent another Republican Great Depression, as well as trying to undermine the successful social programs that socialism in the US government produced. Reaganomics and Republican efforts have returned us to the Great Depression's doorstep. The people Republicans represent love recessions and depressions because they always make out like bandits. They hate anything that smacks of socialism because it benefits we the people instead of just the wealthy elite. The GOP's constituency hates anything remotely socialist because it makes them pay their fare share instead of enabling their runaway greed. So are you serious about wanting no socialism in the US government? What do you want, to return us the the days of robber barons and child labor? If you do--you must be a Republican.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 6:17 pm on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Why would you think that Mr. Gilder "supports socialism," Mr. Kinderman? That is not at all what he stated in his comment.

    It is simplistic thinking like Jerry Osgood's that leads to statements such as the one above.

     
  • Will Rainwater posted at 4:09 pm on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Will Rainwater Posts: 43

    Can we please just trade Obama to Russia for Putin??!! I mean they`re both socialists but I think Putin makes a LOT more sense than the Obamination!!!

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 11:35 am on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2350

    Are you seriously stating that you support socialism for the United States Mr. Gilder?

     
  • Jack Gilder posted at 1:48 am on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Jack Gilder Posts: 26

    Mr. Osgood... I hope you realize it was US carpet bombing in Cambodia that made Pol Pot's rise to power possible. As for your perspective on socialism, it's equally naive. If anyone has failed to do their homework, I'm afraid it's you--your letter is laughable.

     

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