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Letter: Making the rich pay a fair share is not communism

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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 12:00 am

The über-wealthy with their conservative media have done a great job on the gullible. They have convinced them that if the über-wealthy pay the same amount in taxes by percentage as a person on minimum wage, this would be communism or socialism.

We, the non-gullible, would just like the über-wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. The gullible, on the other hand, do not want to lose the freedom of paying more in taxes — making up for the revenue loss caused by the über-wealthy buying lobbyists and politicians so they can write a tax code putting more of the burden on freedom lovers like the super-gullible of the middle class.

The non-gullible would not mind the gullible being lackeys to the über-wealthy except that it cost us non-gullible tax payers so much more money because we have to make up for the revenue loss caused by the über-wealthy moochers that do not pay for their fair share on the tax burden.

This not standing up for communism, this is having common sense.

John Lucas

Lodi

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Welcome to the discussion.

24 comments:

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:58 pm on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Despite all their cries for all Americans to pay their “fair share” of taxes I never once heard Obama or Mr. Lucas mention the New Testament of the Bible.
    [rolleyes]

    p.s. What happened to "Never again...time to put him on "ignore." posted at 12:10 pm on Fri, Jan 17, 2014? [lol]

     
  • Ted Lauchland posted at 8:13 pm on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Ted Lauchland Posts: 254

    A "business expense" only for income tax purposes. A tax is a tax.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 5:15 pm on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2023

    The difference being people joined the communities described in Acts willingly and with full knowledge and willing participation in communal goods mentality as an expression of heir faith. In communism/socialism it is a government attempt to control through limiting financial wealth and being the end all/be all authority over "what" a person needs.

    The second sounds a lot more like what liberals want than the first.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:19 am on Sat, Jan 18, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Liebich wrote:"Apparently Mr. Lucas is not aware of the fact that the whole philosophical concept of "fair share" comes directly from the Communist Maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need!"

    Actually, Mr. Liebich, it comes from the New Testament of the Bible:

    "In Acts (of the Apostles) the lifestyle of the community of believers in Jerusalem is described as communal (without individual possession), and uses the phrase "distribution was made unto every man according as he had need":

    Seems plagiarism is not a newly invented device.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 7:54 pm on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Those are all TAX DEDUCTIBLE, Baxxter.

    Those not required BY LAW are offered voluntarily by the employer, but most often they benefit the EMPLOYER. Otherwise, what employer in his right mind would bother with offering any fringe benefits? Fringe attracts good employees AND they are tax deductible to boot!

    What country have you and Mr. Kinderman been working in, Baxxter, that you two don't have this common knowledge?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 7:50 pm on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "Made up" as in your "knowledge" about employee/employer relationships and what is considered part of the "salary package" and what is deductible by the employer as a business expense?

    Not by a long shot!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 7:48 pm on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Sorry, you are WRONG, Mr. Kinderman.

    The amount you DON'T KNOW about business and employee/employer relationships is astounding.

    When you read about employee "costs," especially in this paper in regard to teachers and COL employees, aside from salary - benefits, taxes (what accountants & those who create budgets call "burden" is always added in to the price of an employee.

    Much of it is deductible on tax returns as a "business expense."

    You really should find out about these very COMMON things before expounding as you have in your comment above.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:30 pm on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1846

    Using that logic the employer pays for EVERYTHING the employee spends his money on including rent, groceries, utilities and any discretionary spending. Do the SS funds the employer contributes on behalf of the employee benefit the employer? Absolutely not, it is an expense mandated by law, unlike optional benefits such as insurances and other “perks” that the employer gives of his own free will.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:47 am on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2352

    One's salary is the amount both sides agree to pay after negotiations are completed. For those working for most fast-food establishments, minimum wage is what they should expect to receive. For other positions, their pay is based upon factors that include education, experience and other things that the potential employee hope will garner as much as possible. The final amount often depends upon who blinks first upon arriving at the amount. This is what the employer believes an employee is worth - the employee most often disagrees. I have always contended that the majority of people are NEVER paid what they are truly worth: some are paid more; some less.

    Health care and other benefits could very well be part of negotiations, but are never considered salary or pay. The government commands that the employer pay one-half of Social Security withholding. All of these things eat in to the employer's profits - that horrible thing that the left believe are either obscene or immoral (or both).

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:43 am on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    FYI - Mr. Kinderman - a business owner can deduct the EMPLOYER portion of FICA and Medicare taxes he/she pays for each employee (7.65%) PLUS one-half of his/her FICA and Medicare taxes - also 7.65% - AS A BUSINESS EXPENSE.

    ALSO, any portion of health insurance benefits the employer has paid on behalf of his/her employees is deductible as a business expense.

    So dry those crocodile tears you're shedding for business owners. It's a waste of your energy.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:33 am on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2352

    Mr. Lucas assumes facts not in evidence when he claims that I've never run a business. But this is precisely what I've come to expect from those on the left - making things up as they go along - very sad.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:18 am on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Translation:
    I will ignore any and all factual information which substantiates the fact that the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor.

    I will continue to use a series of logical fallacies to convince myself that the evil rich are simply hoarding their riches and if they would only pay their “fair share,” then America would rebound out of this fiscal nightmare we find ourselves in today.

    I am in a desperate situation, what with my policies and programs being the main reason our economy is in the toilet in the first place. I will ignore the fact that this tax increase on the "uber" wealthy has been introduced as squashed before during Obama’s presidency. I know it doesn’t have a chance. But this time, it’s not about passing it. It’s about painting the Republicans as the party of the rich, and the Democrats, but more importantly Obama, as the defender of the poor.

    And I don't care if I have to be illogical to do it.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:08 am on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Very true actually. What has to happen is to make this farce be fixed is to make it untenable for those who vote to vote for anyone who will not fix it.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:06 am on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1846

    Jealousy and envy are powerful emotions, indeed. Explains a lot.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:05 am on Fri, Jan 17, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Spoken like a man who has never ran a business or had employees. If you have a business you outlay a certain amount of money you are able to pay said employee. That amount is what you are paying to have that employee. An employer may pay the health benefits of the employee but the reality is that it is part of his pay. Same goes for the idea that the employer pays half of the social security contributions. If paying that half of the the SS contribution was over the amount that the employer was able to pay to have that employee one of two things would happen. He would lower the pay or he would not hire the employee. Saying that the employer pays half is a sham. He pays all of it as part of the salary of said employee. It is part of the benefit package.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:18 pm on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1846

    Go after the guys and gals who make the laws. Great idea, Jerome, but they are not about to change laws that make THEM pay more in taxes. In a recent article, there are more millionaires in Congress than ever before. Most became millionaires while in office. Although their salaries are enviable to most, none make enough to become millionaires on their wages alone.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:59 pm on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You might try the Bible and and a myriad of books written by thousands of authors. Your habit of putting links up does not do you any good. I am not going to waste my time going through the ton of nonsense you put up there. It is ok to do it once in a while but you do it with every comment. If you have an idea articulate it otherwise you are just boring people.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:52 pm on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Trying to say I am jealous is just a way for the gullible to change the subject. I am not but even if I was it makes no difference to the argument. It is a straw man and a way for you not to argue the merits of the uber wealthy not paying their fair share of the tax burden. Which you did not. You made the personal attack and switched to gobablygook that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. 152 words and nothing about the fairness of the uber wealthy paying less by percentage than a middle class person. Nice try, Jerome.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:43 pm on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The gullible speaks. Who do you think is behind these tax laws? The poor?

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 3:32 pm on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2352

    Interesting (but not all surprising) is the fact that these rich guys and gals who own businesses pay one-half of their employees' Social Security contributions. Imagine if each worker had to have 12.4% of their income withheld rather than the 6.2% that is currently being held in addition to federal, state and local taxes. I wonder - why is this "fair" that in addition to their salary and other benefits the rich are forced to pay for one-half (or any amount for that matter) of our Social Security taxes for each employee?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:00 pm on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Apparently Mr. Lucas is not aware of the fact that the whole philosophical concept of "fair share" comes directly from the Communist Maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need!"

    The notion that our tax system is some sort of gift for the rich and unfair to everyone else is a Lucas fantasy. Both as a percentage of income taxed and as a percentage of the total federal taxes paid to the IRS "uber" income earners pay more federal taxes than lower-income Americans and this has been the case for decades.

    [sleeping] http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-individual-income-tax-data-0
    [sleeping] http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
    [sleeping] http://www.justfacts.com/nationaldebt.asp#causes-tax


     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:45 am on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2352

    But why not just admit that you're jealous - you're jealous of their success and their way of living. You won't be satisfied until everyone has either a mansion on a hill or a one-room piece of crap in the valley - regardless of whether or not it's earned.

    Sorry folks, but the world doesn't work very well under those conditions. Just look at the failed socialist/communist/fascist governments of the 20th Century. ALL ended up with dictators or governments with their heels on the necks of ALL the people.

    And now our president is waving around his pen and his power to legislate through executive orders. He has the majority of the government on his side, yet he threatens to bypass even them to get what he wants. And what HE wants isn't what's best for the United States of America - soon to be the formerly great United States of America.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:37 am on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2352

    Look, for once and for all - instead of vilifying the rich for not "paying their fair share," go after the guys and gals who make the laws. Unless they're breaking any laws regarding how much they pay in taxes, the fault lies with the government - not the wealthy.

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 9:58 am on Thu, Jan 16, 2014.

    John Kindseth Posts: 243

    Looks like Lucas and Obama are right:

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/01/15/obama-is-100-right-about-inequality/?intcmp=obinsite

     

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