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Business ower was protecting his property

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Posted: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 6:18 am, Tue Jun 19, 2012.

I noticed only one letter to the editor about the business owner in town who was arrested because he tried to defend his business from a young alleged criminal. I would like to step up and defend the business owner who decided he'd had enough. After being robbed at gunpoint in his store the previous week, he had decided to arm himself so he could protect his property.

When a young punk tried to run off with stolen beer, etc., the business owner shot him. You call that a felony. I call it self-defense; and don't moan and defend the alleged criminal. And don't create a bleeding heart scenario for the alleged criminal. If you want to complain, complain to the alleged criminal's parents. Complain to them and have them pay the hospital bills for the young alleged criminal, not the taxpayer. You know, the one who seems to always pay and who is never really represented. Criminals probably won't figure that particular store is a safe bet anymore; but what about the store owner and his family?

So-called government leaders would be wise to reflect on the situation that created the San Francisco vigilantes of yesteryear. You remember, the police weren't able to protect the citizens in the city so the people took matters into their own hands. They saw to it that thieves were considered thieves, and they served up justice. A few of the crooks met capital punishment at the hands of the vigilantes, and "what d'ya know?" most of the crooks left town.

One other observation: Where are Jesse Jackson, "Nobama" and all the others who cry race and discrimination on any pretense? Why aren't those exploiters of minority communities on hand to get the usual press and glory from this very sad incident?

America has some very questionable heroes these days.

Don Van Noy

Lodi

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34 comments:

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:23 am on Sat, Jun 30, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Yes... everything to do with "your" issue, not mine.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 6:09 am on Mon, Jun 25, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "I agree K Lee that it would be senseless the thief lost his life over a case of beer. However, that has nothing to do with the issue."

    I think it has everything to do with the issue... it is the issue. A man walks out of the store without paying for his beer. The man passes through the doorway so now it is stealing. The man gets shot n back by the storeowner. Taking the life of another due to beer theft is insane.... and illegal. The man should not have (obviously!) decided to steal that beer... but the storeowner sure as heck should never have shot a man as he walks out the door. Call the police.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:43 am on Sat, Jun 23, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    asked and answered... just read my posts again...

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 10:56 pm on Fri, Jun 22, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    What gossip are you referring to, Darrell?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:33 am on Fri, Jun 22, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I agree K Lee that it would be senseless the thief lost his life over a case of beer. However, that has nothing to do with the issue. It would be equally senseless if the store owner lost his life over someone wanting to take a case of beer from him. This store owner has had his life threatened a number of times. I have compassion for the person shot...but I have more compassion for the store owner if he felt his life was in danger.
    Thank you for admitting that you were guessing if he had time to think twice... when you say "looks like"...that is a guess. Like I said, you could very well be correct...but you could be wrong. It does not help to gossip K Lee.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 4:51 am on Fri, Jun 22, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "...you have no way of knowing one way or the other."

    I post comments and opinions here on these forums in response to what the LNS reports…just as you do, Darrell. I'm not sure why you keep saying that it's gossip, but I disagree with you. I believe that the LNS reports what they know and learn about this case (and each story they write) to the best of their ability. And for you to insinuate that one should not post thoughts and opinions on these forums unless they "witnessed" the event is simply ridiculous... no one could post here if that were the criteria.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 4:35 am on Fri, Jun 22, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Yes, Darrell, the liquor store owner looks to have had time to think twice about shooting a man that was walking out of the liquor store. The liquor store owner could have killed someone over what he perceived as a thief walking out with beer. That's not something I believe anyone should lose their life over... especially if an innocent man, woman or child were in the path of that bullet that was foolishly fired at a man walking away from the shooter. Very bad judgment by the thief (of course) but also deadly judgment by the storeowner.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 7:09 pm on Thu, Jun 21, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2574

    This from a guy who gets his "news" from Larry Beck and Glenn Flint.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:38 pm on Thu, Jun 21, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    K Lee stated... You berate others for posting links to websites you don't approve of as a resource ...

    K Lee , please let me help you out so you might comprehend the difference... I point out when people go to one sourse consistanctly in order to get current events and analysis of an event or situation. I never berate anyone except as a response to someone who I think was cruel or mean spirited or intentionally inaccurate.

    I was not seeking anything but quotes from the store owner. The post I got from this website is a quote... word for word. It was not opinion or analysis.

    I do not like Huffington post of Cnn, but do go to their websites if I am attempting to learn of a quote.

    If you notice, I did not know this was Beck's website as Steve had to point it out. Therefore, I did not go there to get anything to substantiate my point.

    Can you spell silly.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:49 pm on Thu, Jun 21, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    K Lee stated... This storeowner should have thought twice about shooting a man in the back as he left the store without paying for the beer.

    Really? more gossip K Lee?... are you saying that he with out doubt had time to think twice. You know for a fact that the thief did not have a gun in his hand or waist band. You know for a fact that the store owner did not fear for his life?

    Since no one was there or witnessed the thief during his departure, you have no way of knowing one way or the other.

    You may be 100% right K Lee... but you may not. That does not stop you in your "As the World Turn's" mentality, does it?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 11:12 pm on Wed, Jun 20, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    This storeowner should have thought twice about shooting a man in the back as he left the store without paying for the beer.

    What if one of your family members or friends was in the line of fire as this owner fired his gun?

    What if the owners little children were running about that night, as they wait for mom and dad?

    What if the thief was not actually a thief and simply forgot to pay on the way out?

    What if he had paid the wife/owner for the beer and the husband/owner just didn't know it?

    What if the guy thought his buddy paid for the beer on the way out?

    What if... What if... What if...?

    You can't just shoot someone in the back as they walk away from you in a store.

    Now, we all know the thief admitted to stealing. What an idiot! Of course, he shouldn't have done it and he should pay the price for his crime, but he should not pay with his life or the life of an innocent bystander as the store owner takes on judge, jury and executioner in his little Lodi liquor store.

    These are the kinds of people that should not have guns. They simply do not have a good head on their shoulders (panic) and do not know how to use a gun.

    Geez... any one of us could have been driving by and got shot in the head by this guy!

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 10:44 pm on Wed, Jun 20, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell: You berate others for posting links to websites you don't approve of as a resource (no matter what their reason), but you do not go on to refute the information that was posted. NOW you want others to do what you are unwilling, or unable, to do yourself? Can you say hypocrite?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 7:19 pm on Wed, Jun 20, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2574

    Well, I guess Flint got it right for once.

    It just goes to show, as our old friend the Dreaded Rear Admiral used to say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

     
  • Mike Adams posted at 7:07 pm on Wed, Jun 20, 2012.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1443

    The presence of a gun alters the interaction entirely. A "reasonable man" could logically transit to "this person, who is robbing me has a gun, he may shoot me", and if he had his own firearm available could be legally excused in shooting the the would-be robber.

    Whether Mr. Driggers displayed a gun hasn't been revealed, however, even if he had a gun and it was visible, but not being held on or pointed at the clerk, the clerk would still be in a pot of hot water. There are distinctions in the penal code that apply to displaying a firearm versus having a gun and not displaying it. Think of the shoplifter had it in his back pocket under a shirt and the clerk just happened to see it's outline or his shirt rode up over the grip, but the robber made no reference to it or threatened the clerk and just walked out the door, case of unpaid for beer in his arm.

    Now compare this to "gimmie a case of your best imported beer!!" while he opens his shirt wide enough for the clerk to see that the now real robber has a gun or something that looks like a gun. Now the clerk can feel his life is definitely threatened, directly and now the use of lethal force by the clerk is justified.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:16 pm on Wed, Jun 20, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Steve stated...Without independent confirmation, there is no way to tell but I generally assume that anything either men say is a lie.
    Its hard to believe that, in this day and age, there are really still people who put stock in the words of these foolish buffoons.

    Thank you for admitting that you were guessing and had no knowledge of truth in this case.

    PLease read the quote from the Sacramento CBS News... http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/05/30/lodi-store-owner-arrested-after-shooting-alleged-beer-thief/


    Parmar’s wife says beer thieves target the mom and pop store almost weekly and the only reason her husband had a gun is because he recently came face to face with armed robbers.

    “Three people came in and tried to rob him at gunpoint after that he decided to buy a gun for self defense,” said Parmar’s wife.

    Even though police say there’s nothing to suggest the beer thief was armed or threatened the store owner, Parmar’s wife defends him for pulling the trigger.

    “He told me he thinks that guy had some weapon with him, that’s why he shot him,” said Parmar’s wife.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:10 pm on Wed, Jun 20, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2574

    Without independent confirmation, there is no way to tell but I generally assume that anything either men say is a lie.

    Its hard to believe that, in this day and age, there are really still people who put stock in the words of these foolish buffoons.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:36 am on Wed, Jun 20, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    so... was the information wrong...or right?

    I would not care if an elephant painted the truth on a rock if it were accurate... So please help us out Steve... was it truth or not?

    That you think something by Beck is worse than Flint says something about you.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:47 am on Wed, Jun 20, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2574

    Woops! Looks like I misread that. The website is actually run by Glenn Beck which is even worse.

    Either way, it is not the sort of thing that someone would reference on a public forum.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:44 am on Wed, Jun 20, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2574

    DB, I think Walter was pointing to your reference to the The Blae. You probably don't realize Theblaze is run by Larry Flint., the owner of Hustler and thus is utterly unreliable.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 9:59 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2574

    How many shots did Mr Parmar fire? What caliber of firearm did he use? Did all the shots hit the perp? Did the bullets that hit the perp lodge in his body or pass through and continue on? Where did the bullets that missed the perp end up?

    There's a reason this sort of nonsense is illegal and it doesn't have to do with protecting criminals.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 9:52 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2574

    Or the shopkeeper misses and blows the brains out of the kid waiting in line to buy bubblegum.

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 8:47 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 179

    Advocating shooting alleged shoplifters. Not armed robbers, fleeing shoplifters. For those who think this is a wise plan, ask yourself what you would do if it was your teenage son or daughter shot dead because they pilfered a CD or bottle of cologne. You can say your child wouldn't do such a thing, but let's say they did. Are you ready to rejoice the death of your son or daughter? If not, what are you thinking? If so, what are you thinking?

    The logical extension is when, inevitably, mistakes are made and innocent people are thought to have pocketed something and are shot dead on the spot. What will the vigilante force then say?

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 8:34 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2363

    Excellent points, Mr. Baumbach. Like you, I anxiously await Mr. Chang's response; or perhaps his "excuse."

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:03 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    "http://www.theblaze.com/"Darrell, lovely website.What's your excuse this time?
    HeHeHe...

    sorry... I did a Google search of " store owner shoots thief" and this article came up. If there is something wrong with the content, please correct it. I have never been to this web site ( except for this article) and do not endorse it in any way.
    Are you saying they did not quote the store owner's wife correctly? If so, please provide what was said. Since truth is most important, I appreciate any correction that is not accurate.

    If the quote was accurate, which I think it was, what was your point of questioning the source?

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 6:42 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1151

    "http://www.theblaze.com/"

    Darrell, lovely website.

    What's your excuse this time?

    HeHeHe...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:19 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    I think Josh Morgan made a great point at 12:30PM Tues.

    I have no idea what happened as I was not there. I do not support shooting anyone. His state of mind and intent is not clear. I think patience is in order to let the details come out in trial to make judgement.

    Gurminder Parmar and his wife have been the victims of robberies before. In fact, Parmar’s wife says their little mom-and-pop convenience store has been getting robbed a lot lately — almost weekly — and some have even used guns. So Parmar got one of his own, and when 21-year-old Christopher Driggers came in and tried to take off with a case of beer, Parmar opened fire.

    According to police, there’s nothing to suggest Driggers was armed, but Parmar’s wife, Satnam, told the station her husband thought the exact opposite.

    “He told me he thinks that guy had some weapon with him, that’s why he shot him,” she said. http://www.theblaze.com/


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:11 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Chang stated...Darrell, it was my intent to purposely demean the author of this hateful letter and to make light of his remarks.

    No need state the obvious Mr Chang. The intent of almost every post you make is to make fun of, make light of, mock or put down the person you disagree with.

    Unfortunately, the conclusions you draw have little to do with reality.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:32 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2574

    Great post Kevin. I would kill anyone who seriously threatened my family without hesitation or regret but a case of beer.....

    I've never shot anyone, let alone killed someone but both my father and grandfather killed men in war who were trying to kill them. I know that both men carried a heavy weight from that experience, even though what they did was unquestionably the justified by the circumstances. If that is the price of killing, it is far too high to pay for such an ultimately trivial offense.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 2:11 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Great story, Kevin, and I bet you have dozens more. Thanks for sharing a sane opinion as someone with firsthand experience.

     
  • Josh Morgan posted at 12:30 pm on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Josh Morgan Posts: 538

    Ok folks, I don't disagree that anyone should lose their life for stealing a case of beer. I don't think anyone should lose their life for simply using their cell phone while driving. I don't think anyone should lose their life for flashing a toy gun at police officers. I don't believe anyone should lose their life for not fastening their seat belt. All very simple infractions of the law but with very tragic consequences.

    Unfortunately sometimes the risks far outweigh the rewards. What do you guys believe should happen to the owner of the store? I don't see this as an act of vigilantism as it was not pre-meditated. It was a decision that was made in a matter of seconds.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:54 am on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2050

    Ok, I have sympathy for the store owner. I spent 7 years working in various convenience stores. Had to deal with everything from drunks demanding I sell them beer after 2 AM (FYI, I can't), gangs loitering in front of the store, and several irritate people who I had to seize their credit cards (FYI again, if I am told to seize your card, I have to, your problem is with your cc company, not me).

    I had a very expensive coat stolen when I let someone use the store bathroom when I wasn't suppose to. Had gas and go, beer runs, shoplifters caught and more than one arrest in my parking lots.

    And through it all I never wished I had a gun to shoot the people. No amount of beer was worth shooting some one over. A good security system would be a much wiser purchase over a gun.

    Ok. a side-note: The graveyard lady at my first store was SCARY, but most graveyard workers seem to look scary the longer they work that shift. Anyway some young punk tried to do a cash grab, when the register opened he tried to grab the cash. She slammed the til on his fingers and, according to the boss who was called out of bed by the police, had broken every finger in his hand.

     
  • Walter Chang posted at 11:49 am on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Walt Posts: 1151

    "America has some very questionable heroes these days."

    Don, you didn't step up, you stepped in it!

    After reading the letter you submitted here, advocating vigilantism and the killing of criminals for petty crimes.

    I wonder who your heroes are??

    Hmmm????

    Darrell, it was my intent to purposely demean the author of this hateful letter and to make light of his remarks.

    He, no doubt has issues!

    Feel free to rush in and defend him. Please!!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:42 am on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Van Anoy: Mr. Parmar was held up at gun point a YEAR, not a WEEK before this incident. Regardless, vigilante justice may make for great Hollywood movies, but it has no place in cases of petty theft or elsewhere.

    It seems this letter writer has made a case in his mind that justifies the action taken by the store owner. I would like to say that I hope his views are isolated, but judging by some of the comments in this forum, there are many who are in favor of vigilante justice. Let the police do their jobs. They do it well here in Lodi.

     
  • Jessie Abraham posted at 10:20 am on Tue, Jun 19, 2012.

    Abe Posts: 14

    The liquor store owner was protecting his property, true enough. But you don't attempt murder on somebody over a case of beer. Society has an interest in protecting persons' property, but it also has a (greater) interest in protecting a citizen's life. It takes some balanced thinking to understand that a person who may be a criminal, in this case a petty criminal, has the same right to protection of his life by the state as law-abiding citizens. The store owner's life was not threatened. He was upset because he was threatened not long before. If that left him unsettled in his reactions to petty thieves, it was a reason not to have a gun. It was no legal justification for his actions. Vigilantes in the past may be romantizised, but the fact is a vigilante is (by definition) lawless. When there was little law in California that was easier to justify. Obviously that is not the case today

     

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