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Free speech is still free speech

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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:00 pm

This out-of-state group that is so concerned with prayers at our City Council meetings brings to my mind the story I just heard a couple of weeks ago from a young woman who came here from the Ukraine.

She was just nine years old when she was sent to stay with her grandmother in a small town in Russia. When she found out her grandmother had become a Christian, she asked her why and was told the story of how some of the communist officials had come to her village and had all the townspeople go to the square, shake their fists at the sky and chant out loud, "There is no God!" Her grandmother started thinking about it and came to the conclusion that if there was no God, why were they made to denounce Him? She became a Christian and passed her faith on to her granddaughter.

Doesn't it kind of make you wonder what this group is so afraid of? If I were in a position of making decisions for a community, I would want all the help and guidance I could get - especially if it came from God! And, if a person doesn't believe in God, then prayer just becomes a bunch of words - inoffensive ones at that! I don't know about you, but I could stand to hear kind words of encouragement all day long.

If you really dig into the history of this country (your high school history book isn't in-depth enough), you will find that the very base of it was founded on a deep belief in God and His principals. But that is a whole other story that this country needs to revisit.

Even if you don't have faith, it seems to me free speech is still free speech, no matter what your viewpoint. So why should prayer be rejected from a category which seems to serve so many other lifestyles and opinions? What are they afraid of?

Cher Grenie

Lodi

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Welcome to the discussion.

23 comments:

  • posted at 4:21 am on Sat, Jul 4, 2009.

    Posts:

    convince.

     
  • posted at 4:20 am on Sat, Jul 4, 2009.

    Posts:

    sleahc wrote:There are way too many restrictions on radio shows- I dont get it, if you dont like what they are talking about then change the channel! It's different at a city counsel meeting- you cant leave or you will miss the stuff that it was intended for-city matters, not prayer! "-There's no law saying you have to espouse to anything in this prayer. Or is there a law saying you can't perform theatrics in order to convice people around you that you don't have a problem with this prayer. Unlike many middle eastern countries where it is a prime directive that you abide by Islamic law or ELSE..

     
  • posted at 4:27 pm on Fri, Jul 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    Jerome wrote:Of course, even on this forum one is entitled speak their minds, even if that speech is laced with unabashed lies. They should realize however that such comments are only successful in making the accuser appear foolish, petty and small. Regardless, as someone said long ago I would fight to protect their right to speak their mind. "-Billy,Keep this in mind the next time you post.

     
  • posted at 12:17 pm on Fri, Jul 3, 2009.

    Posts:

    makes absolutely No difference to me... and Mazie, you are right, keep YOUR god away from me and we will get along fine..!

     
  • posted at 3:53 am on Sun, Jun 28, 2009.

    Posts:

    Mazie- This IS your country and you do have rights but it is also MY country and I have the same rights! I can also believe in anything I choose. I would never think of trying to push my beliefs on you, you should offer the same courtesy! Which means if you want to say a prayer to your god, do it at your church and on your time. This city counsel thing is ridiculous- its time to take care of city matters only! Are you also one of those people that complain about subjects that are discussed on the radio or TV that YOU dont agree with and think they should be fined or taken off the air or even better kicked out of the country??? There are way too many restrictions on radio shows- I dont get it, if you dont like what they are talking about then change the channel! It's different at a city counsel meeting- you cant leave or you will miss the stuff that it was intended for-city matters, not prayer!

     
  • posted at 3:39 am on Sun, Jun 28, 2009.

    Posts:

    Jerome, you are so right on! "All faiths (or lack of) should be respected and tolerated. When anyone's beliefs intrude into anyone else's life uninvited, that's where the problems begin. However, because we do have the right to speak our minds, we must also be tolerant of what others say as well."Not to mention that Mazie is a scary blogger-that goes without saying!I love this country and have fought for it,even under the pretense of god. So what gives Mazie the right to call it "OUR COUNTRY". Its my country too even if I dont believe in her god.

     
  • posted at 7:04 pm on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Jun 27, 2009 3:54 PM:"And once again (predictably) someone accuses me...[snip]"Well, of COURSE it was predictable Jerome; you said it.

     
  • posted at 6:25 pm on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    When I was 9, I went to a church service where they said "the atheists are all wrong!" I wondered why the atheists were wrong, so I studied their point of view and realized there was no god. Makes me wonder why so many people are afraid of atheists. And that is a true story! Although I don't have proof, you must have faith that I am telling the truth.

     
  • posted at 6:12 pm on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Jerome, your comment seems to be outside the scope of the subject matter of Cher's letter and my comment where in the Ukraine officials would gather people into the square, they would shake their fists into the sky and say out loud, "There is no God!" If the scriptures somehow tell you to go along with these governing authorities, then do it....but I wouldn't!

     
  • posted at 11:24 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    anthropis, I have to take issue with your comment made at 8:51 a.m. today. While there are differing interpretations of Mark 12:13-17 (the rendering unto Caesar passage), most accept that what Christ was espousing is that Christians are to submit not only to God, but to earthly authority as well. I would assume that as difficult as it was in the former Soviet bloc, socialism would still be included.As far as any religion is concerned, co-existing on a planet that is filled with humans so at odds with one another spiritually will always result in conflict. "Faith" is a decidedly personal matter that to accomplish well takes a whole lot of work and determination. Since we are all in agreement that our lives here are incredibly short compared to the age of the universe, unless one believes that we are nothing more than neurons and electrons that simply dissipate upon death, great care should be taken in how we decide to live our lives. For me, my faith is strong. That doesn't mean feelings of doubt don't filter through especially when times get tough; but I'm secure and content with my choice.

     
  • posted at 10:54 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    And once again (predictably) someone accuses me of saying/writing something that is simply not true. I have never (EVER) suggested that anyone leave the country for any reason whatsoever. Any comment that I might have made regarding nationalized healthcare would have been to direct people's attention to other countries that have tried such a program.My support of our freedoms espoused in the founding documents has never wavered; so naturally I would really appreciate those who utter such tales about my offerings here or anywhere else would at the very least publish the URL that might support their misguided accusations.Of course, even on this forum one is entitled speak their minds, even if that speech is laced with unabashed lies. They should realize however that such comments are only successful in making the accuser appear foolish, petty and small. Regardless, as someone said long ago I would fight to protect their right to speak their mind.

     
  • posted at 7:35 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Odd, now, that Jerome has decided everyone is entitled to their opinion.When the topic was health care, Jerome said people who wanted the option of a national policy should move to Canada or Europe, which equates to "get out".And for the religious crazies that press for theocracy here, this nation's founding was not on "Christianity" - it was founded on FREEDOM of religion. The words Christ, Christian or Christianity are nowhere to be found in our founding documents despite your lies to the contrary.

     
  • posted at 7:29 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    @wtf - yes, and most likely with the approval of god, or so they were conditioned to believe by the religous leaders of the time. That's why it was O'tay! Big Thumbs Up!

     
  • posted at 7:07 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    If you look at the history of Native Americans, you'll find there was a lot of persecution amongst the tribes as well as some tribes aiding the English with others aiding the French, and all selling other tribe members into a type of "slavery"

     
  • posted at 7:07 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    MEP wrote: "If you really dig into the history of this country...you will find that the very base of it was founded on a deep belief in... genocide."VERY TRUE!!! Couldn't agree more MEP! Having Native American blood in my family, this would dovetail with the arrival of Europeans to North America, and poses a distinct irony of its own i.e., the Puritans were fleeing religious persecution yet decimated the "savages" (read indigenous peoples) they met here....still, in my book, it always comes down to an "individual's" actions.

     
  • posted at 6:48 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    "If you really dig into the history of this country...you will find that the very base of it was founded on a deep belief in"... genocide.

     
  • posted at 6:30 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Yes, Jerome, I have to echo Jeff: Very well said, and quite eloquently, too! Regarding Cher's letter, she wrote: "If you really dig into the history of this country...you will find that the very base of it was founded on a deep belief in God and His principals."Sorry, Cher, this is only partly true. Our country was founded on Freedom OF religion and Freedom FROM persecution i.e., the Pilgrims wanted to practice their form of Christianity in peace due to the persecution they received in England. So, basically, Mazie is advocating a type of persecution...which is not Christian at all.Again, Jerome, you said it all, and you said it very well!

     
  • posted at 5:30 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    @Mazie - If you'd like to live in a Theocracy, move to Iran.

     
  • posted at 5:26 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Jerome R. Kinderman: very well said. write this down, 6/27/09, I am in complete agreement with you on this issue. Frist time for everything...

     
  • posted at 5:08 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Mazie – you are one scary blogger! Why should atheists (or anyone else) be expected to leave their country? Once again, some are getting confused between the concepts of "tolerance" and "acceptance."All faiths (or lack of) should be respected and tolerated. When anyone's beliefs intrude into anyone else's life uninvited, that's where the problems begin. However, because we do have the right to speak our minds, we must also be tolerant of what others say as well.But to insist that anyone be shown to the border simply because they believe differently and state those beliefs according to their right of free speech flies in the face of one of the purposes upon which our nation was founded.Still, no one should ever be forced to listen (or read) to someone's opinion against their will just as no one should be forced to believe in something that they would rather not.It really is this simple. My feathers just get a little ruffled when anyone suggests that another citizen leave due to nothing more than a difference of opinion.

     
  • posted at 3:51 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Many in our government and institutions are working in the direction that all Americans surrender their rights to the control of Washington, D.C. and under the guise the government will develop a more perfect society. However, the very nature of Christianity is the natural enemy of such movements as Christians tend not to surrender themselves to kings or man but only to Christ Jesus. Thus, Christianity and socialism cannot exist together.

     
  • posted at 2:10 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    This is our country and we have rights. This country has always had prayer and belief in our Lord, Jesus Christ. If any of you are offended by Him, then close your ears and eyes. You should be used to doing that anyway. I would not want to be in your shoes on judgment day though. I pray that all the non believers will find Jesus before the second coming of Christ.

     
  • posted at 2:03 am on Sat, Jun 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Damn atheists need to get out of our country. And don't let the door hit you on the way out! And you, Cher, have brought up a great point. What are they afraid of? Why do they feel threatened by our prayers to OUR God? If they truly don't believe in God, and i cannot imagine anyone not believing, then they should just let our prayers fall on their deaf ears.

     

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