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Letter: We should not be controlled by the Obama administration’s edicts

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 12:00 am

Hard to believe our president said on a live TV interview, in a quick reaction to a question on the “roll out” failure, “I’ve been burned ...” What a pity that the computer fiasco has so unnerved our leader.

Tens of thousands of Americans have found their lives irreparably disrupted by what has proven to be something that was sold as a Cadillac and has turned out to be a measurably more costly clunker. These people were more than burnt. They were deceived by a government that was more interested in the Barack Obama’s “ideology” than the well-being of its people. The need for power turned out to be the motivator rather than the well-being of its citizens.

Many have used the phrase “narcissist personality” in attempting to understand the president’s thought processes. Add to that his lack of true management experience and compassion, and you compound the frustration that the situation has caused. True pity needs to be directed to those that have been duped into believing that there is such a thing as a free lunch by those selling this poorly thought out Ponzi scheme.

When the smoke finally clears a bit, we will undoubtedly have one of two things:

1. A country where one-sixth of the economy is controlled by the government, with an endorsement to further control other facets of our lives.

2. A country where broken conditions receive the needed attention rather than replacement by strong and life-controlling government edicts. One where the population remains in control of their lives.

Richard Viall


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Welcome to the discussion.


  • Elise Middlecamp posted at 9:54 am on Sat, Dec 14, 2013.

    Elise Middlecamp Posts: 20

    Rather than address all the ad hominem opinion that is as grounded in the facts as, say, "The Conjuring" or "The Exorcist", I will just address the enumerated points:

    1. A country where 5/6 of the economy is controlled by private interests that make decisions in the black box of boardrooms and backrooms, including plans to lobby for new laws and regulations, with little to no oversight is NOT preferable to a country where government (also known as the elected representatives of community) regulates and oversees the critical infrastructure of the economy. The Feds already heavily regulate and inspect the strongest backbone of this country: mining. That industry seems to be doing pretty well, and you don't hear hogwash from them about how regulations have run their business out of town. I do see that we have some of the lowest annual death rates for industrialized work spaces in the world. Nice that more private-job-holding people go home to their families everyday in exchange for oversight.

    2. I'm saddened by the shear pretentiousness of this point. What apparatus of "country" will yield the "needed attention" these "broken conditions" demand, if not the government? The churches and mosques? The Heritage Foundation? The ACLU? If Lodi has a water problem, what body besides the City Council should we take that issue up under so the "population remains in control of their lives"? The City Council is very much part of the government that this letter rails against.

    I see a lot of comments that wax philosophical about federal and state government. There seems to be a disconnect between the fact that government is comprised of human flesh and that government manages human flesh. Discussions become almost dangerously irresponsible when government is considered only as some separate entity not found in any neighbor. The mayor is your neighbor.

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 6:04 am on Wed, Dec 11, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    posted at 9:40 am on Sat, Nov 30, 2013.

    "Fox is nothing but a propaganda machine for the Republican party."

    posted at 1:43 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    "Here is an interesting article on Fox News:"


  • John Lucas posted at 2:50 pm on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730


  • Eric Barrow posted at 9:45 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    771 days and counting until Hilary takes charge

  • Eric Barrow posted at 9:40 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    I'm just using your own refrences to counter your claims. If you have data that supports that there are more overdoses and "gang banging deaths" in this great country then in those 16 other economicaly wealthy countries please provide it otherwise enjoy your crow.

  • John Lucas posted at 9:21 am on Tue, Dec 10, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I do not believe you

  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:27 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1913

    Mr. Lucas, I HAVE talked to people in other countries, recently, in fact. IF there were people who were just delighted with their national healthcare, I never met any. Most were not happy about it but realized they were stuck with it, want it ot not. Just how much more of our industrial and service industries do you think the government should run? Our pseudo president thinks he is the magical wizard and with the wave of his hand and stroke of his pen, he can dictate anything and verything he wants, Constitutional or not. He needs to go, the sooner the better.

  • John Lucas posted at 5:43 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    When I put up independent studies you claim they have Liberal bias. When I put up the bastion of Conservative propaganda you attack me. I say again. You do more for the Liberal cause than any other commenter on this forum and do not think for a minute we do not appreciate your efforts. Your commitment to your ideology in spite of simple known facts is unsurpassed. You are amazing. Thanks again!!

  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:18 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1913

    Says the one with taxpayer subsidized health insurance.

  • Joe Baxter posted at 2:52 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1913

    You do realize that all murders including gang banging deaths and drug/alcohol abuse deaths are factored in to the mortality rates and statistics in America. Would be interesting to see how they would read if these were thrown out and only the true medical issues were used in the calculations. A lot different, to be sure.

  • Christina Welch posted at 2:48 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Christina Welch Posts: 460

    Really good article from The Lancet, but I think a key part was missing:

    "In nine key areas of health, Americans fare least well, or are near the bottom of the tables. These areas are: infant mortality and low birthweight; injuries and homicides; teenage pregnancies and sexually transmitted infections; HIV/AIDS prevalence; drug-related deaths; obesity and diabetes; heart disease; chronic lung disease; and disability. This health disadvantage applies to those with health insurance, a college education, higher incomes, and healthy behaviours as well as to those without."

    And... "But the (healthcare) system is not the only problem. Unhealthy behaviours abound in the USA, particularly overeating, drug abuse, and other risk-taking activities such as not wearing motorcycle helmets, drinking and driving, and using firearms. Social and economic conditions in the USA contribute to high incomes for some, but to high poverty and income inequality for others, and to low standards of education. Welfare safety nets are not as robust as they are in other countries. Moreover, cities in the USA are often built around car use, which discourages physical activity and contributes to obesity."

    We have a lot to work on here in America to improve our health outcomes.

  • Joe Baxter posted at 2:45 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1913

    Andrew, never goonna happen. They don't know what reality is, only what they perceive as reality by listening to their liberal propagandists.

  • Joe Baxter posted at 2:41 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1913

    Oh my, Mr. Lucas citing "Faux News" the media that is all lies and reports nothing worth knowing? Stunning.

  • John Lucas posted at 2:19 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    It is also interesting how many seniors over 65 in the US say they are in excellent health. Of course they are using a single payer system. We are 52nd in longevity, 34th in medical outcomes and we pay twice as much as anyone else to achieve these goals. There is one thing we can be proud of. Steven Hemsley CEO of United healthcare only had a salary of 3.4 million but his total compensation was over a 100 million dollars.

    Mr Baxter you might want to talk to people who live under other industrialized countries. If any politician tried to convert them to what we had before Obamacare he would have been run out of office. Our healthcare system is immoral. Yes we have some of the finest doctors and nurses and healthcare in the world. The problem is that millions of Americans cannot access it and are on the outside looking in.

    Only a Conservative could say denying insurance because of previous condition is a good policy. Only a Conservative could say it ok to be kicked off your insurance after you get sick. Only a Conservative can look at a system that does not include 50 million of is a good system. Only a conservative would cheer a politician who says a person should be denied service at a emergency room if one does not have insurance. Only a Conservative could look at our system and say it was good. Why? It is because of the good feeling he gets when he watches his friends suffer, die and go bankrupt needlessly and think it is a bargain just because we pay twice as much for that freedom.

    This is not just political but it is a moral guide to what a person is really about. One must question a person's moral center if they support the system before Obamacare.

  • John Lucas posted at 1:43 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Here is an interesting article on Fox News:

    US health outcomes far worse than other comparable nations, report finds


  • Eric Barrow posted at 1:37 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1601

    From the Lancet Journal 1/19/2013

    "Last week, American people, health-care workers, and policy makers received shocking news. Despite spending more on health care per person than other high-income countries, Americans die sooner, are least likely to reach the age of 50 years, and have higher rates of disease or injury. When judged by health alone, Americans are less healthy from birth to 75 years of age than people in 16 other economically wealthy countries, and this health disadvantage has been getting worse for 30 years, especially among women."

    "Why are Americans at a health disadvantage compared with those in other countries? The fragmented US health-care system, and, in particular, poor access to health care and to primary care, are partly to blame. Lack of insurance, or inadequate insurance, restricts access to health care for many Americans."


  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:53 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Isn't it about time you take a step back and examine the people/party you feel compelled to defend? What is it moves you to argue so vigorously in the face of reality?

  • Christina Welch posted at 12:52 pm on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Christina Welch Posts: 460

    From the Commonwealth Fund's own website: "The foundation underwrote a considerable part of the research underlying the development of the reforms in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010, and reports of its Commission on a High Performance Health System (1995–2013) helped inform the debate leading up to this landmark legislation."

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:35 am on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    So the Commonwealth Fund is now a "liberal think tank" because all of the Google results were CONSERVATIVE websites and media who of course are going to discredit ANYTHING that goes against their opinion that the US has the best medical care available.

    Even your buddy Darrell Baumbach has touted going overseas for medical procedures (though unless you need plastic surgery or a sex change his information is pretty worthless).

    Your comment only proves that if you Google something long enough you will eventually come up with information that you agree with.

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:28 am on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Do a little research and see the light that is blinding you is also keeping you from seeing the truth.

    The Independent Payment Advisory Board, or IPAB, is a fifteen-member United States Government agency created in 2010. Under previous and current law, changes to Medicare payment rates and program rules are recommended by MedPAC but require an act of Congress to take effect. The new system grants IPAB the authority.

  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:55 am on Mon, Dec 9, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1913

    Oh, I see, the Commonwealth Fund, the LIBERAL think tank that tries to discredit American healthcare in order to promote the socialistic European style healthcare. In other words, Obamacare advocates. Not a real credentialed study. I prefer professional medical unbiased findings that are not agenda driven or skewed.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:24 am on Sun, Dec 8, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Daniel: Apparently the LNS did not like my comment on "Death Boards" since they never posted it.

    Every single health insurance company - especially HMO's - have had the so-called Death Boards around for decades. CEO's and Accountants often determine whether someone will receive coverage for a life-saving procedure. If the outcome and longevity of the patient is in question they won't pay for it. Period.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:19 am on Sun, Dec 8, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    From the New England Journal of Medicine comparing healthcare in the US, UK, Australia, Germany, New Zealand, and Canada. See the full article at:


    This directly contradicts Mr. Baxxter's figures. A sample:

    Key Findings

    Quality: The indicators of quality were grouped into four categories: right (or effective) care, safe care, coordinated care, and patient-centered care.

    Compared with the other five countries, the U.S. fares best on provision and receipt of preventive care, a dimension of "right care." However, its low scores on chronic care management and safe, coordinated, and patient-centered care pull its overall quality score down.

    Other countries are further along than the U.S. in using information technology and a team approach to manage chronic conditions and coordinate care. Information systems in countries like Germany, New Zealand, and the U.K. enhance the ability of physicians to identify and monitor patients with chronic conditions.

    Such systems also make it easy for physicians to print out medication lists, including those prescribed by other physicians. Nurses help patients manage their chronic diseases, with those services financed by governmental programs.

  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:09 pm on Sat, Dec 7, 2013.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1913

    Here are som iteresting statistics poubished in the Lancet a couple of years ago:
    The Lancet study found that:
    Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:
    U.S. 65%
    England 46%
    Canada 42%
    Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:
    U.S. 93%
    England 15%
    Canada 43%
    Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:
    U.S. 90%
    England 15%
    Canada 43%
    Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:
    U.S. 77%
    England 40%
    Canada 43%
    Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:
    U.S. 71
    England 14
    Canada 18
    Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in "excellent health":
    U.S. 12%
    England 2%
    Canada 6%
    And now for the last statistic:
    National Health Insurance?
    U.S. NO
    England YES
    Canada YES

  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:17 am on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    I see no sense in Richard's statement under Obama, "One where the population remains in control of their lives." This is after he criticizes that America was sold on a Cadillac which later proved to be a costly clunker.

  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:06 am on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    On "Death Board."
    I say again. (I don't see my post from last night.)
    This is unquestionably relevant to the topic of Obama's health care plan.

    In the event of a proposed medical treatment which is high cost, where the potential benefit might be low, for example to spend $200,000 to extend the life of a patient, the health care plan may convene a "death board" in order to compare risk vs. benefit where it could be decided that the proposed cost would be too excessive and instead of paying the excessive amount, it would be decided to allow the patient to die rather than spend the money.

  • daniel hutchins posted at 9:40 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    Ed, I gave a good reference to the 1760 book, Law of Nations. If nothing else, it might be fun to scan through the table of contents, and it gives you a quick impression on what the book is about. This website is very user friendly and expands each topic, one paragraph at a time, if you're interested.


  • daniel hutchins posted at 9:38 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    As for the chip, I saw a news report on this subject, and the news anchorwoman was campaigning to accept a chip. A couple years ago, I devoted some time to verify if the chip was legislatively mandatory. I actually found the paragraph where it was written, and then a subsequent bill in which it was no longer there.

    It's like a shell game. Now you see it, now you don't. Where is it? I'm not playing that game anymore. I am going on the news report in which they were trying to convince the people to take the chip.

  • daniel hutchins posted at 9:34 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    Ed, I appreciate that, and you are welcome to study as much of it as you please.

    The information that I provided is quite valuable if only it can be learned.

    Some of the points that I presented are contrary to traditional deceptions that exist in society, and contrary to the education that we receive as a youth. Therefore, it is very difficult to teach to adults, and in contrast, I have seen children who have grasped this information with ease.

  • daniel hutchins posted at 9:28 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    Literally, a board that convenes to decide whether to pay for expensive treatment, or just allow the patient to die.

  • Ed Walters posted at 1:11 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    the old dog Posts: 631

    Daniel: You must have happy fingers by now, I will agree with you that some hospitals have a chip with all of a patients information on it, I know that Kaiser Permanente does, and can be found at any Kaiser Hospital. I cannot agree with you when you state that God gives rights for ourselves to be born. If that were the case abortions would be a thing of the past or never happened to begin with. You seem to have spent a lot of time on this subject, however there are some, as usual that will not agree with you, just like suing and not agreeing with people, its the American way. The way I leave this earth is spelled out, die, cremated, scatterd, no service, as I refuse to spend thousands of dollars on a box to be put into the ground and slowly rot away. What could be easier, and less expensive. Anyone got a problem with that.

    John try what you propose in Europe, Daniel, you have spent time on your posts, I would suggest you keep it short and symple. You lost me on your third post.

    With posts that are so different, I am surprised Joanne Bobin has not jumped in and shared her opinion. Must be walking her dogs, with the new laws, she had better clean up after them.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:07 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Daniel wrote: "John, In your universe, do you agree to all of the terms and conditions, including your submittal to a Death Board if the cost of your treatment were high..."

    Which "Death Board" are you referring to, Daniel?

  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:34 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    Where is there humanity in any society that agrees to a system that contains a Death Board?

  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:30 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    John, In your universe, do you agree to all of the terms and conditions, including your submittal to a Death Board if the cost of your treatment were high, or would you agree to accept an RFID chip? After all, you might be unconscious in an emergency room someday, and it would be convenient to get your medical history if only a database were accessible merely by scanning your chip. Great! Fantastic! Now, they can help you.

    I hope that your medical condition never goes before a Death Board. If your status in society would not be very good, in comparison to the potential cost to the "government" to extend your life or to give you a chance to live in face of grim odds, then it might be better for the other members of the society, or for the members who have a higher status or an exemption, if the money were not wasted on a lower member of society, merely to extend life for a few months, or just to give a chance to live.

    If this is a bad picture, at least there is health coverage.

  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:19 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    The term "citizen" is not defined in the original constitution, that is, as it was originally intended. Perhaps the definition was reserved to the constitutional states of the union. However, such arrangement of "states" was changed at the outcome of the Civil War. If only the military service members of the northern union were to understand that they were fighting against their own selves, they would have not have fought, and by now, they might have "turned-over, in their graves." Although the Confederate flag is improperly interpreted as a representation of racism, it was more correctly asserted in representation of state rights, for the constitutional states of the union. The states lost. Consequently, all of the constitutions of the constitutional states of the union, were abandoned. For California, indeed, if one checks, there is a 2nd constitution. The first constitution had asserted that slavery was forbidden, and it claimed the metes and bounds of the borders within which the sovereignty of the organic state of the union was asserted. Both are absent from the 2nd constitution. The 2nd constitution contains extensive rights. The danger of government granting rights is that it becomes the grantor of those rights, and it can also take them away. Little do the people realize that God gives rights for ourselves being born, not government. Hence, I am not interested in any civil rights whatsoever. I claim human rights.

  • daniel hutchins posted at 8:10 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    The world's accepted authority on what is a "citizen" is found in the following book which was published in 1760:


    Emerich de Vattel, Law of Nations, 1758, translated into English in 1760. More specifically, Droit des gens; ou, Principes de la loi naturelle appliqués à la conduite et aux affaires des nations et des souverains (in English, The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law Applied to the Conduct and to the Affairs of Nations and of Sovereigns).
    Ch. 1. Of the state, and of sovereignty. § 1. Of the state, and of sovereignty.. and § 2. Authority of the body politic over the members.

    Ch. 19. What is our country. § 212 Citizens and natives

  • daniel hutchins posted at 7:44 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    daniel hutchins Posts: 1342

    Whether you like it or not, if you are registered to vote, whether you voted or not, if you agree to being a US citizen, whether you know the definition of the term or not, or a lot of other possible if's, then you are a member of this organization that you call "government."
    If you claim to be a US citizen, with a lowercase "c" as in the 14th amendment definition of the term, then you have no voice whatsoever in the "Cadillac" that they have forced upon you, and for as long as you vote and claim to be a US citizen, you have no voice in whether you can accept the car or not, and if they say is a Cadillac then it is a Cadillac and you must take it whether you like it or not, and act like you enjoy it.

    If you don't like this peachy rosy picture that I have painted, then I suggest that you do some studying. For starters, maybe stare at the 14th amendment and read it over and over again until you get the definition. It says "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." Which comes first? Analogous to the question of which came first, the horse or the cart, I say that US citizenship comes last, after you agree to being subject to the jurisdiction thereof. Then look at the definition of "subject." What are the master's subjects? The only way out is to do some study. If you refuse to study, nobody is going to be able to help you get rid of that car.

  • John Lucas posted at 5:10 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    When the smoke clears millions of Americans will have healthcare who never had it before and over time the cost of healthcare in this country will dramatically decrease. This is what invariably happens when you have universal healthcare which is the experience of every country that goes down this route. I know our right wing friends live in an alternate universe but in this one that is what always happens.


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