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Wade Heath Let’s celebrate our core American values

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Welcome to the discussion.

13 comments:

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:28 am on Sat, Jul 7, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin stated...What makes you think this to be true, Mr. Baumbach?

    Ms Bobin, based on the following, it would be better for you to provide documentation that I am wrong. So far, all you have given is an uneducated guess…

    In 1620, one of the sects of Puritans known as Brownists separated from the Protestant Church of England, and after much persecution, decided to immigrate to the “new world.For the pilgrims on the ship, America’s shores offered freedom of worship and protection from tyranny
    Tens of thousands of English Puritans came to Boston, Massachusetts and adjacent areas from about 1629 to 1640 to create a land dedicated to their religion . The earliest New England colonies of Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island and New Hampshire were established along the northeast coast between Maine and New York. Large scale immigration to this region ended before 1700, but a small steady trickle of later arrivals continued.

    The peak New England settlement occurred from about 1629 to about 1641 when about 20,000 Puritan settlers arrived mostly from the East Anglian parts of England (Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Kent, and East Sussex).[3] In the next 150 years, their "Yankee" descendants largely filled in the New England states and parts of upstate New York.
    The New England colonists were the most urban and educated of all the colonists and had many skilled farmers as well as tradesmen and skilled craftsmen among them. They started the first college in the Americas, Harvard, in 1635 to train their ministers

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:09 am on Sat, Jul 7, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin stated...As a non-Christian, non-religious person, Mr. Baumbach, DO YOU believe what Wade Heath has written here?

    As a person who does not practice any religion, I would not word things as Wade did. God in my mine is love. Without love, an individual in my view cannot have success. They may have money and things, but not success. So when Wade said” But there is no doubt that this land is exceptional because of God”, I would not disagree. I also would say that as god plays a smaller roll in the lives of people, less success will result. I think as the secular left gains power, gods roll diminishes and so does the quality of life in America or any place in the world. Love or the lack of it knows no borders.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:50 am on Sat, Jul 7, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    The founding fathers knew this because they were close to god....then But, they created (in the Constitution) checks and balances for our established government for a reason. Only now those in power are slowly whittling away at those checks and balances or ignoring them altogether! And we Americans as the lambs we are allowing it!

    Interesting thought Mr Jacobs. I think you draw very accurate conclusions.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:03 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2857

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    Why would this be true? It is improbable that, of all of the countries in the world where the populations are highly religious, why would God smile on the US alone? This is religious poppycock of the highest order.

    Many believe America to be exceptional. What's wriong with that? Evidently Ms. Bobin has a problem with that. I don't think Wade is implying God is smiling on the U.S. alone. That would be ridiculous to imply that. Of course it's Ms. Bobin interpeting it as such. We shouldn't be surprised.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 3:57 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    So, Andrew Liebich, according to your information below, can we say that we have a secular government or a non-secular (theocratic) government?

    What of Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin? These are the two founding fathers that are most connected with Deism?

    What of the so-called "Jefferson Bible," in which he included Jesus's moral teachings, but excluded any reference to supernatural happenings or miracles - key to deistic belief?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:12 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    The Senate ratified the 1797 Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”

    Okay, let’s break down this massively-complex collection of words:

    ■“Congress shall make no law” Let’s see, that translates to…“Congress shall make no law”…. Okay, that was kind of easy, it must get more difficult from here...

    ■“respecting an establishment of religion” translates to “that has ANYTHING to do with religion”

    ■“or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” translates to “government is forbidden from placing ANY obstacles in the way of citizens freely exercising this right”

    These are not ancient hieroglyphs, or Cro-Magnon cave paintings.

    There are those that claim the men who founded America were Christians and some claim they were Deists. Technically, both are wrong. In order to say (rightfully) that the Founding Fathers were Deists or Christians it would be necessary for all of them to be so. The Founding Fathers were a diverse group of individuals; they held differing theological and philosophical views. However, several were Christians but few (if any) were strict Deists.


     
  • Robert Jacobs posted at 12:52 pm on Thu, Jul 5, 2012.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    Most of what this article alludes to are true, with one exception. This article stated in part

    "This land has persevered in the most troubling of realities because its people are good, its people trust in the morality and ethics of its leadership and have faith in something far greater."

    Man is not good, the bible speaks clearly to this. We are like filthy rags, we are sinful by nature (nature, meaning this is who we truly are) (not that we cannot do good but that we more than often do NOT...) no one seeks after God. The founding fathers knew this because they were close to god, they were godly men. Did they sin or course they did, they are men. But, they created (in the Constitution) checks and balances for our established government for a reason. Only now those in power are slowly whittling away at those checks and balances or ignoring them altogether! And we Americans as the lambs we are allowing it!

    One thing is for sure, God is the only being who help us....

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:18 am on Wed, Jul 4, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Wade Heath wrote:

    "But there is no doubt that this land is exceptional because of God. Because of the great possibilities and opportunities bestowed upon the American people by their creator, the United States has prospered unlike any other nation on the planet. This land has persevered in the most troubling of realities because its people are good, its people trust in the morality and ethics of its leadership and have faith in something far greater."

    Why would this be true? It is improbable that, of all of the countries in the world where the populations are highly religious, why would God smile on the US alone? This is religious poppycock of the highest order.

    As a non-Christian, non-religious person, Mr. Baumbach, DO YOU believe what Wade Heath has written here?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:12 am on Wed, Jul 4, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumbach wrote: "Since a vast majority of people were religious back then,"

    What makes you think this to be true, Mr. Baumbach? Historical estimates put the population of practicing Christians at about 10% in the late 1700's.

    The founding fathers themselves were mostly deists or Freemasons and did not practice Christianity.

    Theocracy: "a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities." Think "Iran."

    Since the founding fathers did not establish a government based on a god being the "supreme civil ruler," the Constitution established a secular government. They didn't have to actually write it into the document. It was understood by all except you and Wade Heath, apparently.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:48 pm on Tue, Jul 3, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    sorry Ms Bobin... read your own post... no where does it talk about the founders setting up a secular government. Still waiting...

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:08 pm on Tue, Jul 3, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "can you point to specific documents that address the secular government. page numbers... etc... what is the exact wording that talked about this secular government."

    How about the First Amendment to the Constitution? I'm not going to bother find a "page number."

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Just how long have you actually lived in this country? And better yet, when are you leaving?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:33 am on Tue, Jul 3, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Since a vast majority of people were religious back then, and since the government is supposed to be representatives of the "people" , could you please be more specific Mr Crowder... can you point to specific documents that address the secular government. page numbers... etc... what is the exact wording that talked about this secular government. Please spare us your interpretation of the documents.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 7:14 am on Tue, Jul 3, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    The founding fathers set up a secular government, Wade.

     

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