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Wade Heath Anti-bullying speaker attacks religion, the Bible

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Wade Heath

Posted: Monday, May 21, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 6:20 am, Mon May 21, 2012.

The Bible and religion have been under attack by an anti-bullying speaker. The Occupy movement marched across America yelling stuff and breaking things while promising more action in the future and a socialist regime has risen in France. Ah, the future looks bright, doesn't it?

Bullying is wrong — unless they're Christian

Much has been done in recent years to combat a culture of adolescent bullying. From public forums to TV specials and even films, society seems to be zeroing in on the act that, in some extreme cases, sends the victims over the edge by committing suicide. So imagine my surprise when, just recently, Dan Savage, founder of the It Gets Better project — a support group for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender teens — spoke in what many consider to be a degrading, bullying tone at the National High School Journalism Conference.

Savage highlighted select text from the Bible, proclaiming, "The Bible is a radically pro-slavery document." He further underscored, "We ignore what the Bible says about slavery because the Bible got slavery wrong." Savage was, of course, trying to create a compare-and-contrast moment between slavery and homosexuality in the Bible.

As Savage railed against the Holy Book, more than 100 high school students reportedly walked out of the speech. Noticing the streams of teenagers leaving the room, Savage made the comment: "You can tell the Bible guys in the hall to come back now because I'm done beating up the Bible," to which a portion of the crowd cheered.

Savage then boasted, "It's funny, as someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible, how pansy-assed some people react when you push back." He said this to more wild cheers.

Being bullied because you're different should never happen — it is an agenda that Savage pushes. However, it's acceptable to publicly bully a group of people in front of their peers because you have the microphone? Because they're Christian? Because they have a certain set of beliefs? Because THEY are different?

Savage later apologized for the remarks he made at the event, once he was under fire. But shortly after that, Savage was at it again, this time offending Catholics at an Elmhurst College event where he took shots at the Pope. Sorry, Dan, but I'm having a hard time figuring out who the bully is.

'Occupy' what, exactly?

On May 1, the Occupy movement showed that it could tie up rush-hour traffic, throw bricks through windows and slug cops, yet still they do not have a consistent message to get across.

I watched various Occupy guerilla videographers' footage from live streaming participants in Seattle, New York, Los Angeles and even Chicago online because I was doing my best to understand what it is that they want — again. It really depended on who was doing the filming and commentary. Some wanted the rich to suffer like they were; others wanted the government to do something about big banks' "corruption." Some were blatantly anti-Semitic toward Jews, while different channels showed workers marching for "rights."

I get that the economy is in the crapper, and has been since George W. was in office. We've been driven even deeper into economic turmoil under the Obama administration. But is that what Occupy is about?

That's what I'd be in the streets over. To be honest, though, I don't feel like my job disrespects me. I think I have plenty of rights. There are wrongdoers in every religious group and subculture of humanity, so why call for the Jewish peoples' demise?

Greed is wrong, but being successful should never be put down or demonized — it should be encouraged. And big banks who took bailouts should never have accepted them in the first place. Corruption is a problem when integrity is rotten, and I don't think everyone is corrupt. Although you'd think so, since the promoted "trend" on Twitter on May 1 was "corporate greed."

I'm convinced there is a bigger power behind this Occupy movement, as they all seem to be organized to a degree and have flashy campaigns, with financial support that promotes a trending topic (which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to do) on one of the world's biggest social media avenues. But when the people in the movement show up, whatever message it is they're trying to get across sinks in a sea of counter-messages and distortion.

Not to worry, though: They all can agree that they aren't done yet.

Socialism rises again in France

Dearest France,

You really think electing a socialist president during a time of economic meltdown will restore your country to prosperity? That's cute.

Can't wait to bid on the Eiffel Tower when it's up for auction.

Sincerely, the European Union.

Columnist Wade Heath is a contributing editor to NationalTalkLive.com. He can be reached at wade.lodi@gmail.com.

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Welcome to the discussion.

313 comments:

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:23 am on Fri, Jun 1, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    (Query, can DB engage in a real conversation on an utterly non partisan subject)

    Define real... what appears to be real to you is fantasy... so I think it appropriate to clarify just what it is you think is real.

    I am not surprised that you don't know as you stated... maybe you should figure out why you do not.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:32 pm on Thu, May 31, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    No DB, I don't know. Where did you here that?

    (Query, can DB engage in a real conversation on an utterly non partisan subject)

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:30 pm on Thu, May 31, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    No... I do not think you are curious at all... you already know.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 10:28 am on Thu, May 31, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    DW, are you suggesting that Dante didn't write the Inferno? I actually took a few classes on The Divine Comedy in college and I can't recall anything in the scholarship that hinted at this possibility.

    I am curious. Where did you get this idea?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:14 am on Thu, May 31, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    stevie: The unknown language seems to be you. moopo moopo lang du whop huh?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:31 am on Thu, May 31, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Fortunately for us, Italian is not some unknowable cypher that can only be translated using sophisticated computer technology.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:29 am on Thu, May 31, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    That's the problem with using a computer to do your translation.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:02 pm on Wed, May 30, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I bet steve did not know there were Ghost writers back then...

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:01 pm on Wed, May 30, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    CANTO XXXII:22 Per ch'io mi volsi, e vidimi davante e sotto i piedi un lago che per gelo avea di vetro e non d'acqua sembiante.

    Google translator said this phrase means...I turned me round, and before him vidimi And underfoot a lake, that had frost glass of water and do not countenance.

    That is the problem with taking one language and attempting to translate it to another... It just does not come out the same... we are then left to guess what was actually meant...

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:11 pm on Wed, May 30, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    I bet Darrell didn't know they had invented writing back then.

    :)

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:10 pm on Wed, May 30, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle.... luckily for us and the rest of posterity, Dante also recorded the words of his poem in writing.

    CANTO XXXII:22 Per ch'io mi volsi, e vidimi davante e sotto i piedi un lago che per gelo avea di vetro e non d'acqua sembiante.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:07 pm on Wed, May 30, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Interesting... Did not realize they had recording equipment back then that could so accurately account for what someone said. What day was that recorded? Also, did he say it in English or another language that had to be translated... and was it translated in today's world or what words meant back then? It all gets so complicated when attempting to be accurate.

    Or was it you who personally heard Dante say it... even if you did hear it, how could we verify that you did not misunderstand?

    It is also inexplicable why Mr Crowder would so easily think that what you believe has substance.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 10:41 am on Wed, May 30, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle... you might well be in a good position to observe the doings of Satan if you turn your back on Christ's Love.

    As a side note, Dante did say that the last ring of H-E-L-L was a frozen wasteland.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:20 pm on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle... Jo-Jo, I think you are spending way too much time worrying about me. That said, what I wrote before stands. I can sense the waters beginning to part as the Truth is slowly becoming evident to you.

    Things won't change immediately but I predict that, one day, you and I may raise a glass in fellowship and salute the long journey that you are starting today.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:58 pm on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Houdack stated… After first writing that it is not, Kinderman proceeds to make “Right” vs “Want” an exercise in semantics. “Rights”, whether he can bring himself to admit it or not, are agreements of civil liberties granted by – or denied by – orderly societies.

    I disagree with Rick

    It is also important to note that the Bill of Rights does not grant people the listed rights. The Bill of Rights simply guarantees that the government will not infringe upon those rights. It is assumed that the rights pre-exist. It is an important distinction.
    The original July 4 United States Declaration of Independence manuscript was lost while all other copies have been derived from this original document.[3]
    The sources and interpretation of the Declaration have been the subject of much scholarly inquiry. The Declaration justified the independence of the United States by listing colonial grievances against King George III, and by asserting certain natural and legal rights, including a right of revolution. Having served its original purpose in announcing independence, the text of the Declaration was initially ignored after the American Revolution. Since then, it has come to be considered a major statement on human rights, particularly its second sentence:
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    from Wikipedia

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:33 pm on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Since you mentioned my name Steve...please be clear... I only stated if someone had malicious intent and intentionally slandered someone where it could be proven that economic damages are a direct result of that malicious intent, that a lawsuit in civil court is easier today as a result of cases like Father Kelly where a jury found the defendant liable without any physical evidence...

    As far as your conclusion about what Joe stated... it was very confusing and did not make sense. Why would anyone think anything about your sexuality based on what was said? Strange conclusion.

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 3:10 pm on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 147

    Kinderman posted:
    ""Right" vs "Want" is hardly an exercise in semantics. Insofar as our system of laws is concerned, "rights" are endowed by the Creator. Yeah, I think I read that somewhere and during my lifetime I cannot recall how many times I've heard it stated.
    Freedom of religion; freedom of speech and silly things like that are rights. They cannot be taken away by the government. The desire to own an Escalade is a "want." There is no protection by the Constitution for that.
    And there is also no "right" guaranteed by the Constitution to permit same-sex marriages. At least as it stands today, homosexual marriages are just wants.
    As it pertains to wedding ceremonies in churches I cannot see where same-sex unions will ever be mandatory. Again, the Constitution will protect against such compulsory acts by the government. Even if an amendment is passed declaring homosexual marriages to be a right, the First Amendment would need to be obliterated first. And on the day that happens we will cease to be a Republic.
    I wonder if that just might be the plan anyway"

    _____________________

    After first writing that it is not, Kinderman proceeds to make “Right” vs “Want” an exercise in semantics.
    “Rights”, whether he can bring himself to admit it or not, are agreements of civil liberties granted by – or denied by – orderly societies.

    Rather fortunately for Kinderman, our American society has granted him freedom of religion; something expressly forbidden by his religion of choice. And curiously, his “Creator” nowhere grants him the freedom of speech guaranteed by the secular Constitution of the United States and, despite his claim to the contrary, let me assure him that governments can and, indeed do, take those “silly” (Kinderman’s word) rights away from citizens. Theocracies being among the very worst in the world for such censorship.

    I can’t remember the last time I heard anyone say it is their “right” to own an Escalade, but I have read Kinderman’s own writing in which he states collecting government subsidies are his “right”, despite his ability to blog here 24/7. Of course he could earn a living seated at a desk in an office, but it is his “right” to take handouts when they are available. Cheers, Kinderman.

    He is quite right, of course, in his assertion that same-sex marriage is not in the Constitution; however, that great document DOES guarantee equal treatment under the law. Rights and privileges granted to one must be fairly granted to all – without prejudice.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 2:25 pm on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle... I've got Joe Baxter running so scared that he's seeing me in every shadow. For the record, I am not K.Lee, Florence McSpoon, John Lucas or Pat Maple. Just plain old Steve.

    Joe, I know that I have rocked your fragile egg shell mind over the last couple of days but the Truth of Chris's Love will set you free.

    Someday, I know, you will thank me for what I have said here.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 11:03 am on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    DB: You are correct. If the other side's position or postulation is muddied, muddled or mumified...it is best to bring it to life in the light of day. Hiding in the shadows and throwing rocks is not debate. So...to them (since I know you and many others already have a bead on) I simply ask them to clarify and state specifically: What is fairness and what is equality? Obviously they are struggling with it.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:37 am on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Rick... Pat was attempting to have others state what they perceived fairness to be. He clearly knows what fairness means to himself... how obvious could it get.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:34 am on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Again Steve... it was not mocking. I was intentionally being absurd to
    demonstrate absurdity that you and K Lee practice.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 10:02 am on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Steve, don't break your arm patting yourself on your back.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:54 am on Tue, May 29, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    KLee, I had no idea that you would be insulted by saying that your position mirrored that of Steve Schmidt. But, now that I think about it, I can see how you would feel that way. I apologize.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:53 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2327

    "Right" vs "Want" is hardly an exercise in semantics. Insofar as our system of laws is concerned, "rights" are endowed by the Creator. Yeah, I think I read that somewhere and during my lifetime I cannot recall how many times I've heard it stated.

    Freedom of religion; freedom of speech and silly things like that are rights. They cannot be taken away by the government. The desire to own an Escalade is a "want." There is no protection by the Constitution for that.

    And there is also no "right" guaranteed by the Constitution to permit same-sex marriages. At least as it stands today, homosexual marriages are just wants.

    As it pertains to wedding ceremonies in churches I cannot see where same-sex unions will ever be mandatory. Again, the Constitution will protect against such compulsory acts by the government. Even if an amendment is passed declaring homosexual marriages to be a right, the First Amendment would need to be obliterated first. And on the day that happens we will cease to be a Republic.

    I wonder if that just might be the plan anyway

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 8:04 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 147

    Isn't Maple supposed to be some kind of businessman in the area? Wasn't he some kind of low level wanna-be politician for a time? Yet now he claims to have no idea what fairness means. Looks like the voters got rid of him in the nick of time before he could bully and "beat the carp out of" someone else he doesn't approve the looks of.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 8:01 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Patty Maple: I see that you are desperately trying to dig yourself out of the whole you created for yourself, but it's a bit late. We know the scoop. You were a bully in high school and you so much as admitted it in a moment of self-promotion. Anyway... let's move on as it's a little sad watching you do this dance.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 7:58 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Joe Baxter: Can't you answer the question? You made the statement that homosexuality is a worse sin than some others. I just wanted to know what other sins are you talking about and how do you rate them? You made the statement so why is it so hard for you to explain yourself?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 7:54 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    You're now posting personal insults and still avoiding the question.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 7:41 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Joe Baxter wrote, “Please excuse Steve, he has this idea that eating shellfish and wearing blended fabrics is the on the same level as the sin of homosexuality. Easy to see how he came to the incorrect conclusions.”

    Joe: Can you please tell me how Jesus rated sin. What are the different levels? What rating did he give homosexuality, since you see it as a sin, compared to say… wearing blended fabrics? Is there a list in your bible that shows these ratings? How about eating shrimp? Where does that one rate? I’m really curious to read your answers to these questions. Will you answer?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:41 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    If you stop invoking the Bible to attack people, I will stop invoking it to defend them.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:10 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Mr. Nielsen, I agree ALL bullying, regardless of the "reason" needs to be stopped. Please don't invoke the Bible in attempts to validate homosexuality or, like Mr. Dan Savage, denigrate the Bible for the same purpose.
    Address bullying for what it is, bullying. Good luck with your program.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:20 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell: Maybe before you chime in with your insults you should actually know what you're talking about. You mock my questions to Joe Baxter, and try to belittle my query, yet you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. Still no response from Joe Baxter.

    How about it Joe Baxter? Please tell us where homosexuality rates on the sin scale since you see it as a sin worse than other sins.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:19 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Darrell posted to Klee: "Since you appear to agree with everything Mr Schmidt states... I assume that your position is his position... "
    Of course, how could it be anything else?
    KLee posted to Darrell: "Joe Baxter said that some sins are rated worse than others."
    Apparently equally adept at twisting posts as he is at twisting the Bible.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:25 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    DB, like the greatest Republican President of the 21st Century (thus far) I sometimes bestow affectionate nicknames on my friends here at the LNS but, as I am sure even the Dreaded Rear Admiral and Lil' Bobbi Chapman will attest, I have never engaged in the sort of infantile mocking that you posted below.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:55 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Nielsen stated... Hat is OFF to Wade!!!! Excellent article. Religious bashing IS bullying.

    Good point!

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:46 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Schmidt... more false statements?

    My post was to demonstrate the absurdity of baby talk that K Lee
    and you normally use in attempting to put down people with whom you both disagree.

    I never do this... you and K Lee often do it... To state I am the bully when clearly you and K Lee are is silly.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:39 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    since you seem to agree with Joe? Joe Baxter said that some sins are rated worse than others.

    I do not know what Jesus said...I was not there. However, it does make sense that some wrongs are more significant than others. For example, If you killed someone on purpose, that would be more a wrong than if it were accidental...I am not religious but it would make sense that if you believe in sins, that all sins are not equal. Seems obvious.

    Since you appear to agree with everything Mr Schmidt states... I assume that your position is his position...

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 2:32 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Thank you for the compliment.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:24 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Nielsen: "fairness, and equality" I am not quite sure what that is. Can you explain?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 12:50 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Good luck there Mr. Nielson. You have a tough row to hoe.

    That said, I do have to question the preconceptions of anyone who believes that one man standing up and challenging the beliefs and prejudices of a crowd of hundreds is engaging in "bullying".

    Where I come from, we call that "bravery".

    If you are going to start with the assumption that it is OK for people to believe that God commands them to taunt and hurt some specific minority, then I suspect your quest for tolerance is doomed to failure.

     
  • Lodi Project posted at 12:16 pm on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    LodiLGBTQProject Posts: 7

    I'm David Nielsen, CoFounder of the Lodi Rainbow Project. We presented an initial Proposal to the LUSD that encompassed an Anti-bullying Prevention program that included Safe Zones in every school (K-12) on April 10th. It is modeled after a successful program that is currently very effective in Newton, MA.. It also includes a GSA/Pflagg (Nationally Recognized student /parent group) in every high school as an additional support tool for bullying that involves sexual orientation. We have already supplied a coping worksheet for bullying that includes 10 steps an individual can utilize to personally stand up for yourself. The Trevor Project and Kid Power were also referenced as resources. No kid should self punish or kill themselves due to lack of support. We have received a huge amount of Lodi Religious support and were received extremely well at the LUSD. Hat is OFF to Wade!!!! Excellent article. Religious bashing IS bullying. It is important that we reinvent our value systems to include more compassion, kindness, fairness, and equality across the board regardless of race, creed, & sexual orientation. We welcome the Lodi LGBTQ community, their families, and allies. You can find us on FB.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 11:36 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Andy, drop me a line at steven_schmidt@hotmail.com.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 11:16 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    I should also say that I am nowhere near arrogant to believe that my path to Christ is the only path to Christ. I suspect that a fair number of the happy people in those atheist countries of which you speak have found their own path to Christ's infinite love and justice, many of them without ever even thinking of it in those terms.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 11:10 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Hmmm... you speak to what you have found to be true, I speak to what I have found.

    That said, logic, reason and evidence have very little to do with love and truth.

    Every sixteen year old boy who has seen a girl knows this to be a fact and, while there is a big difference between eros and agape, it is just as true when it comes to Christ's love which is found through faith.

    I'll pray for you too Andy, but, if it will make you happier, I will do it silently and in private.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 10:49 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    While I usually find myself nodding in agreement at your posts, that was a load of sanctimonious BS. Entire cultures, entire countries are primarily atheistic and have some of the highest standards of living on the planet, not to mention some of the highest scores on the happiness index. Religion is not necessary for a full and happy life, and I am certain that you understand that. Whether your faith is real or feigned, I concede that it's a useful tool to hammer some of the simpler minded, delusional fools who post here. I am happy for the comfort religion provides to some of my progressive friends, and you are more than welcome to that as well. Please realize that the collateral damage of your arrogant statement above is a slap in the face to those of us who value logic, reason, and evidence.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 9:28 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Saddly DB, I suspect you are right. Much as I have prayed for you over the last two years, you seem no closer today to accepting Christ's love than you were when we met.

    Some people are destined to be left on the outside which is a tragedy because, even in the steamiest quarters of Thailand, a world without Christ is a cold, cold place.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:26 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Darrell, you do realize that KLee is the feminine "Alter Ego" for your "favorite" poster, don't you?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 9:25 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Darrel wrote: The man who claims to be a Christian in the spirit of Christ, who refers to others as idiots, cowards and stupid is calling others hypocrites...

    DB, a quick review of these pages will show that pretty much the only person here who regularly refers to people as "stupid" is your man Pat Maple (that is in the brief periods when he isn't posting about how wonderful he is).

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:20 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Go look in the mirror and ask Steve "my Bible tells me it's ok to be gay" Schmidt.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:11 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Name a time you were not the hero of the story. Name a time you admitted to making a mistake. Pat your world is all about Pat. Selfishness Personified

    I read this somewhere:

    We are all players on a stage. It when we have to be the director and producer that we get into trouble

    PS I wish everybody well but it is time to move on

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 8:49 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrl posted: "Sometimes people get tired of Pat telling us how great he is". That's funny! Telling someone about your life experiences is nothing more that finding common grounds from which to communicate. Apparently you a void of experiences.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:37 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I have never claimed to be perfect, In fact I probably should not feel so good about getting your goat. Yes I think you are an intellectual coward but is it a sin to call water wet?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:20 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...If you read what he said I think hypocrisy was at the top of his list

    The man who claims to be a Christian in the spirit of Christ, who refers to others as idiots, cowards and stupid is calling others hypocrites...

    Comedy in motion... I have to admit, watching Mr Lucas and Schmidt telling others about what a good Christian is and does is... priceless.

    When Mr Schmidt said... Allen, I invite you to put aside your false idol(s) and open your heart to Christ... I had to read it 3 three times trying to imagine what he was really saying.

    If one reads Mr Schmidt's posts on a steady basis, one would conclude that he has not embraced any of his teachings or even comprehends what they are.

    If these two men are examples of Christians, I will never be one for certain. I cannot practice any religion because so many who do mirror Mr Schmidt and Lucas.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:57 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Sometimes people get tired of Pat telling us how great he is.

    Funny, I read all of Pat's posts and I have not seen one where his
    "INTENT" was to tell anyone how great he is... again, that is something that takes place in the " the world according to Lucas"

    If someone wants to engage in make believe and fantasy, I suggest you can get your fill of this activity simply by debating Mr Lucas.. In the "world according to Lucas", reality and perception rarely meet.

    For example, Mr Lucas finally saw wisdom in Mr Kinderman by coming to the conclusion that discussing religion in this forum is not productive... perception finally meeting reality in the World according to Lucas".

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:19 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    One thing I hate doing is agreeing with Jerome Kinderman. I think he is right saying it is pointless discussing Religion on these pages. Write it down Jerome for I agree with you.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:14 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    If you read what he said I think hypocrisy was at the top of his list

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:53 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    This was a comment by someone else on this blog:

    Judging by his behavior here and elsewhere, it seems Maple's dubious claims of his being "spit on" in Dallas, if it happened at all, were the result of his foul demeanor and not his military deployment.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It would not be an issue if he would quit patting himself on the back for being an altruistic soul saving all the weaker folks from the evil bullies of this world. He keeps bringing it up and putting out this idea. I simply said what I thought and knew that others shared my opinion. Sometimes people get tired of Pat telling us how great he is.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:34 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...I think I can speak for many on these pages who have read your posts who if our lives depended on it we would have to say that we believe that you are at heart a bully ( I assume in reference to Pat)

    Pat... imagine Mr Lucas calling you a bully in your heart... thats like Charles Manson calling someone else manipulative... that was the quote of the thread...

    Mr Lucas doesnt know what he doesnt know and bullies people until he "perceives" he won something... whatever it is, its sad.

    In addition, I publicly state that I never speak for others under any condition... I do not have an ego complex where I think i should speak for others... Ill leave that to Mr Lucas who declares he speaks for others and speaks from above in deciding which names to assign to people to describe their perceived shortcomings in his mind

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:28 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    But she asked you Joe, the Cafeteria Christian (or should I say Paulist).

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:43 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Ask Steve Schmidt,,,,

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:38 am on Mon, May 28, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Joe Baxter wrote, “Please excuse Steve, he has this idea that eating shellfish and wearing blended fabrics is the on the same level as the sin of homosexuality. Easy to see how he came to the incorrect conclusions.”

    Joe: Please tell me how Jesus rated sin. What are the different levels? What rating did he give homosexuality, since you see it as a sin, compared to say… wearing blended fabrics? Is there a list in your bible that shows these ratings? How about eating shrimp? Where does that one rate? I’m really curious to read your answers to these questions.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:29 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    What I am going to say and $3 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbuck. It is just my opinion.

    The bible is a book written over a period of centuries and the final version was put together in about 400 AD when Christianity became the official religion of Rome. It is no accident that that the Old Testament and the books other than the Gospels in the New Testament were made part of the Bible. The political powers that be knew that if you just went by what Jesus said that their power would be limited. The reason Jesus was killed is because he was a threat to the powers that be.

    When I read the actual words of Jesus it is clear to me that he is talking about what we as individuals must do to become better human beings. If you have a nation of people who do that it is very hard to control them politically and economically. They start thinking about what is fair and just. They start thinking for themselves.

    The Old Testament and the books other than the Gospels lay down many rules which are often contradictory in what they say. This lets the powers that be pit one group or people against another in their quest for political and economic control. They pick and choose which verses they like not for the idea it contains but to divide people over issues and/or distract them from issues that would hurt them politically or economically.

    This is what this whole argument about whether the Bible supports homosexuality is all about. If one just reads what Jesus said the issue would not even come up.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:02 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Yeah, Allen. Let that be a lesson for you. NEVER question our resident authority on the Bible. It says what he wants it to say, right or wrong, so he is never wrong. To suggest that someone knows as much or more about the Bible is blasphemous, I tell ya, just blasphemous.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 7:56 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Whether or not I support gays marrying is no one's business except mine. My entire issue on this thread has been the denigration of the Bible by Dan Savage and other posters attempting to legitimize homosexuality using "unwritten" passages and ignorning the written condemation. And with this post, no more from me about homosexuality on this thread. I don't need to rehash my position over and over.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:39 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The right to marry the one he or she loves. To call it a right or a want is just a matter of semantics. This is the issue. I wish you and Mr Baxter would just come out and say whether or not you are in favor of same sex marriage and state your reasons for doing so instead of al this crawling in the weeds with side issue. Man up, tells where you stand and give us your reasons.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 7:38 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Pat, I came back on a MediVac flight so I avoided the "spit bullets". I did watch it on TV in the hospital and it sickened me. Yep, We Be Rounder.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:29 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    There is no doubt she did the right thing but this does not mean that this is what you did in high school. This cannot be proved one way or another. I think I can speak for many on these pages who have read your posts who if our lives depended on it we would have to say that we believe that you are at heart a bully and picked on and beat on kids who were weaker in high school. I have no idea whether this is true or not but I certainly would bet that way if I had to. You have to understand we see your behavior and words on these pages everyday and words are the window into ones soul.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:04 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I know where you stand on the issue of whether the Bible supports homosexuality or not. What I am interested in is whether you support the right of gays to marry and if you do not it is your reading of the bible that brings you to that conclusion?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:57 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    A minorities civil rights will always be in jeopardy when bigots backed by what they think is a holy book are in charge. Look what happens to Christians in many Muslim countries.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:48 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Allen, I invite you to put aside your false idol(s) and open your heart to Christ.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:31 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Allen, you seem like a good Paulist.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:29 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Crazy Bob also describes himself as a "Disciple of Christ". He says that he met Christ on the road to Galt and that they sat and had lunch with Elvis and Herbert Hoover.

    The charitable view is that Paul was crazy. The more realistic view is that, in addition to all his other character flaws, the man was a liar and a charlatan.

    Either way, the man did not follow Christ's teachings and he certainly did not speak for Christ.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:40 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    No, the real question here is why do people who want to legitimize homosexuality feel a need to use the Bible to reinforce their positions? Try as they may, they fall way short on their weak arguments.
    I don't give a rat if you are gay or support gays, attempts to use the Bible, which specifically condemns homosexuality, in arguments that homosexuality has the "stamp of approval" by what Jesus DIDN'T say us absurd.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:08 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    leelee: Do you suppose she should have looked the other way??? Sorry but I am with her...

    Teen says she was punished for trying to stop bullying of girl with mental disabilities

    Published May 27, 2012

    FoxNews.com

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/27/teen-says-was-punished-for-trying-to-stop-bullying-girl-with-mental/?test=latestnews#ixzz1w7OJDYPW

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:57 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Please excuse Steve, he has this idea that eating shellfish and wearing blended fabrics is the on the same level as the sin of homosexuality. Easy to see how he came to the incorrect conclusions.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:50 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Joe: I found my tags about a week ago along with all of my duty papers and other stuff. Still have my uniform (with the dried spit from Dallas TX on it) and my military issued dress shoes. What a laugh trying to get into them!!!! My how we grow!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:48 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    "Those issues were voted on hundreds of times too"..."The Congress proposed the Fifteenth Amendment on February 26, 1869. The final vote in the Senate was 39 to 13, with 14 not voting.. The vote in the House was 144 to 44, with 35 not voting. The House vote was almost entirely along party lines, with no Democrats supporting the bill and only 3 Republicans voting against it. Under the Reconstruction Amendment...the 15th...California and Tennessee were some of the last states to ratify the Amendment CA in 1962 and TN in 1997. Again, what rights are not afforded a HM that a HT has? Rights...not wants?

    The Women's ERA still sits in the Congress unable to pass the necessary Constitutional muster to become an Amendment.

     
  • Allen Davis posted at 4:15 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    allenluchador Posts: 16

    What Savage did was an act of bullying. I'm sorry most of you don't recognize that. Bullying is wrong on any account and even Mr. Savage doesn't get a free pass to bully Christians. That was the point of the article, most of you missed it. Go back to school and get an education.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 4:12 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Very true, especially if they don't support your opinions and mindset.

     
  • Allen Davis posted at 4:12 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    allenluchador Posts: 16

    Andy, as to religious belief and secular law, you might try reading the Constitution with an open mind and also the Declaration of Independence.
    Both find Judeo Christian Heritage to be foundational in their interpretaion of what is legal.

     
  • Allen Davis posted at 4:10 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    allenluchador Posts: 16

    Darrel, good call. I find Steve quite amusing also, and not in the least educated.

     
  • Allen Davis posted at 4:07 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    allenluchador Posts: 16

    Andy, you are reading the wrong material. Check your sources and find information with more integrity. Even a casual search through Google would prove you wrong.

     
  • Allen Davis posted at 4:05 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    allenluchador Posts: 16

    Steve, Try reading some of the letters the Apostle Paul wrote. He usually opens with "Paul, a disciple of Christ" or "Paul an Apostle of Christ". And, yes indeed Paul and Jesus met, in the book of Acts on the Damascus Road. They even had a conversation. Later many many people were persecuted and dies for following Christ and being called a disciple of Christ. They had never physically met Christ but were certainly named as disciples of Christ. Being a Christian in fact in definition means "Disciple of Christ". It is one who follows Jesus Christ..
    Read up Steve.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:52 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    I can still wear my dog tags and caps. Everything else shrunk, at least I think they did.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 1:14 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Indeed!

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 1:12 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Which is not to say that they were not composed by Disciples of Christ. The Gospels represent the oral tradition of people who actually knew and spoke with Our Savior.

    The Epistles, on the other hand, are primarily the deluded scribblings of a hate consumed man who never once in his lifetime met Jesus Christ but who, nonetheless, hijacked the Christian movement and made a mockery of Christ's teachings.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:47 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Polls are not a good arguments when talking about civil rights.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:37 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I second the motion

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:30 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Regardless of what is said here or will be said here I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank ALL of our veterans for their service to this Greatest of Nations...we may not always agree and may at times get a bit gruff and grumpy...BUT this country and those men and women, fathers and mothers, sisters and brothers, sons and daughters are the ones who afforded us this priviledge.

    Oooooh Raaahhh
    Semper Fi
    Booo yaaaa
    Thank you brothers and sisters of the Armed Services

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:23 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat said:
    This issue is not about rights or laws (the laws are clear and have been voted on hundreds of times)...it is about wants and desires.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You have a point and if we followed your logic blacks would still be slaves and women would not be able to vote. Those issues were voted on hundreds of times too

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:20 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    How many people including HM and HT believe marriage is okay? About 90%? How many people including HM and HT believe marriage is not okay? 10%
    How many people including HM and HT believe gay marriage is not okay? 72%
    How many people including HM and HT beileve gay marriage is okay? 28%
    How many people are gay? In the modern West, according to major studies, 1% to 3% of the population is homosexual, while 2% to 10% have had some form of same-sex sexual contact within their lifetime. Hmmmmmmm

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:11 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The real question here is if you think the bible is the work of God and your faith is so strong why does it anger you so? I would ask the same thing of the Muslims who went crazy over the cartoons in Denmark. I do not see why you dislike those Muslim people who rioted over the cartoons as you have so much in common with them

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:07 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrstevie: Never said he was...I simply said Jesus had desciples or followers.

    mrl:" I think it is shameful that they could not enjoy the rights and privileges of the document they gave their lives for." Under the laws of marriage they have the same rights. Heterosxeuals do not get more rights for dying for their country than do homosxeuals. Everyone is equal in a firefight...

    DB: "How unfortunate that the gay community did not protect the rights of the opposite sex community who do not want to be forced to get married just to get the rights the domestic partners enjoy." I would only add that the rights of the children born and unborn are being left out as well. Does the child get to choose or have say in what the adults do? Is it written into law...because their relationship will certainly have an affect on them.

    This issue is not about rights or laws (the laws are clear and have been voted on hundreds of times)...it is about wants and desires. I want what I want and I do not care how others might be affected or their rights are trampled on. No matter what is said or written religious or non...the laws of nature over ride them all. A man may WANT to be a woman (sex changes and all) but until nature changes, they can NEVER have a baby. The same goes for a woman who wants to be a man. There will ALWAYS be a third party involvement (and should be for the child's sake) in a homosexual partnership (donor) and will NEVER be a third party (save special circumstances) in a heterosexual partnership. A small proportion of the population is expecting ALL of us to join in this Gand Experiment with lives...we have enough wars going on right now...but this experiment is not one I am willing to participate in.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:04 pm on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    To me all this Religious talk is really a waste of time. Religious people can be divided into two camps. Those who want to do Gods will in their own lives and those who want to do Gods will in other peoples lives. I happen to be on the side of Jesus on this one and you are never going to get the two sides to agree on anything.

    Dan Savage's remarks at the conference were nothing new under the sun. The same back and forth is going on here. What is interesting is how angry people got at his remarks. When I get angry the first thing I do is ask myself why am I angry. To give an example at first Pat would really make me angry. I had to ask myself why is that so? I finally figured out that he was just as big a know it all as I am. We share a character defect. I take comfort in the fact and give thanks that I have the courage to try to look at myself honestly something Pat is completely unable to do. The fact about the kids that walked out did so not because Mr savage said was untrue but because they felt they were under attack. Instead of listening and trying to understand why they were angry they just pulled a Pat.

    The issue to me is about civil rights. If we want to have civil rights we have to defend the civil rights of all or the time will come there will be people coming for yours

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 11:49 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    So, I take it that nobody that professes to be a Christian doesn't take issue with Dan Savage calling the Bible a "Bullsh_t Book" when justifying his homosexuality? The only thing better than a few students walking out would have been if everyone would have walked out. Can you imagine what would have happened if a campus speaker called the Koran a "Bullsh_t Book"?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:32 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    If what you are saying is that gay and straight couples should have the same rights and privileges under the law including marriage then I must say I agree.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 11:24 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Pat, not that it makes any difference, but I am hetero. We have gay family and friends.

    If you are referring to Wades' drivel about Dan Savage twisting the Bible, you should know that Savage is an atheist (ex-Catholic) and does not need to justify his sexual orientation to anyone.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 11:19 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Adding to what Steve said, New Testament scholars tell us that none of the gospels were written by the disciples of Jesus. They were written decades after Paul wrote his letters. "Mark" was written first, and the others are just stylized copies.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:12 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    If married and non married couples have the exact same rights, it would not matter
    which group is married...maybe we should state that only same sex partners can be married and all other groups will have a different title.

    Everyone knows this is not a rights issue in California. California domestic partners have more rights in California that unmarried opposite sex companions.
    In California, you can register with the state of California as a domestic partner only if you are same sex. They then can legally get health care and other benefits for their dependent...However, opposite sex partners who want to register as a domestic partner do not have that right and cannot get heath care for their partner unless they get married. How unfortunate that the gay community did not protect the rights of the opposite sex community who do not want to be forced to get married just to get the rights the domestic partners enjoy.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 10:56 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Pat, don't you realize eating shellfish and wearing blended cloth is on par with homosexuality? Give poor Stevie his fantasies, it is all he has to cling to.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:54 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Steve stated...the Old Testament is absolutely clear that eating shrimp is a sin.

    I always think it amusing when anyone thinks the bible should be taken literally.

    Steve... you are very amusing... thank you as I enjoy humor.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 10:53 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    I was one of the lucky ones, I didn't come home in a body bag but did spend 4 months in a hospital. To use the Viet Nam experience as a platform to advocate homosexuality is shamefully despicable.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 10:43 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Pat, Paul was not a Disciple of Christ. The two never met.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:31 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat said:
    You are exactly right...HS and HM have the same rights according to the law. I am a heteros and I cannot marry a heteros person...nor can I marry a homos person of the same sex. It is not about the law it is about the wants. Now demands... because they are yelling loudly.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yes, Black people in the south before the civil rights movement were subject to the same laws before the civil rights movement as whites were. Jews is Germany were subject to the same laws as Christians in the 1930's and 40's. Yes gay people want to marry the people they love as heterosexual people do. I will repeat what I said before:

    Gay men and women who have fought and died in the defense of the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights in all our wars. I think it is shameful that they could not enjoy the rights and privileges of the document they gave their lives for.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 10:30 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    The analogy of the shepherd's role...it is not to beat the flock into eating and drinking rather guiding and nudging them to the lands of food and water. Much the same as it is not the soldiers duty to kill an enemy rather it is his duty to protect those innocents who are not the enemy....from the enemy...on occasion death must occurr.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 10:25 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Stevie...Jesus had these guys called desciples...they spread the word because the printing press had not been invented yet. Would you have had Jesus transcribe each and every word to paper several million times? He wouldn't have had time to make the Romans mad so they would cruxify him. Your arguments lack common sense.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 9:52 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Hmmmm..... and these toxins somehow magically disappeared with the coming of Jesus?

    One of the things that set the Jewish community against the early Christians was their blasphemous failure to follow traditional dietary laws. At the time, this was seen as a enormous violation of the traditional (Old) Covenant between God and the Jewish People.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:32 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mslee: I see that condemn and condoning are the same to you. Condemnation does not come from me...but from a higher power. Condonation comes from me...and if I do believe in a higher power and what guidance it has given then I cannot condone that which it sees has harmful in life.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:29 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrc: "...none of this has anything to do with the American legal system." You are exactly right...HS and HM have the same rights according to the law. I am a heteros and I cannot marry a heteros person...nor can I marry a homos person of the same sex. It is not about the law it is about the wants. Now demands... because they are yelling loudly.

    As JB said: My argument hasn't anything to do with the "civil rights" for gays, it has to do with people like you and Steve using the bible in a twisted way to justify your homosexual lifestyle. Period. Period.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:23 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrstevies: You know as well as I do that in the Bible the ban against eating shrimp and shell fish was because of the toxins in the shell's dye. Today it is used in medicine as a dye to be able to see what is going on in a person's veins (some people including myself are alergic and can and do die from it).In those days it simply said don't eat it and then banned it just to make sure people paid attention. Stop with the moronic comparisons.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:20 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mslee: Lets address what you wrote: "A mature and honorable man does not take pleasure or pride in kicking the "carp" out of someone. And neither does a Christian man." I would venture to say that when a soldier goes into combat he does not enter it lightly nor do those who defend the lesser of society. As I have said and what I live by is: Don't hit women, don't hit kids, don't kick the animals and don't lie...l will/have become involved. I take no pleasure in hurting my knuckles...but even in your defense I would not have a problem doing so.

    Since you have chosen to use baby names can I call you leelee?? Grow up.
    Your homophobic accusations, feigned outrage and rants about punks is muted by the fact that we once had a TV program called "Punky Brewster" and the following is an excerpt from an Oak Grove OR news article:

    "I have to pull from my husband's retirement to cover it, because the business loan is called up when the business is no longer in operation."

    "Punky" Scott, who owns the property where the business sits, said she will also lose the monthly rent she's been collecting on the stand. ..." Send this to stevie.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:34 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    One of the great tragedies of the modern church is the number of deluded individuals who have set up Paul as a false prophet in the place of Christ. While Christ brought a message of Love, Paul raged with a sword of Hate against a great many people. While bigotry sexism and rage are anathema to the Gospels, they infest the Epistles like gangrene, poisoning everything that they touch.

    For example: 1 Corinthians 14:34 4 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

    Can anyone imagine a message less in keeping with the teachings of Christ?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:19 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Paul is not Jesus.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:33 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    1 Corinthians Ch 6 Vs 9-10

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:32 am on Sun, May 27, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle.... "my homosexual lifestyle"????

    Now see, Joe, if I was just a little more like my other brother from another mother, you would be hearing from my lawyers.

    As for Vietnam, you are absolutely right. How dare those Vets give their lives so that you can enjoy your rights while depriving them of theirs?

    Finally, I've said it before AND I will say it again, in the ENTIRETY of the Gospels, Jesus Christ never says a single word about homosexuality.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:08 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    sorry, this was a reply to Joe baxter saying he was not talking about the civil rights of gays

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:06 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    oe Baxter said

    My argument hasn't anything to do with the "civil rights" for gays, it has to do with people like you and Steve using the bible in a twisted way to justify your homosexual lifestyle. Period.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay though I am not gay.

    He said:
    What I have maintained, and will always maintain, that people who use the Bible to justify their homosexual lifestyle are doiing so only to make themselves feel better about their perverted lifestyle.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    In talking about a perverted lifestyle the following quote Joe might think about the following quote from Jesus

    You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

    Joe said
    You weren't the only one in Viet Nam and I detest you throwing it up in defense of homosexuality.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I was not throwing up my service in Vietnam. I will throw up the service of all the gay men and women who have fought and died in the defense of the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights in all our wars. I think it is shameful that they could not enjoy the rights and privileges of the document they gave their lives for.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:45 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Good. Then you believe that gay people should be able to marry and have the same civil rights as anyone else? If you believe that why did you not just say so?

    PS. Anger just means you are not getting what you want. If you expect everyone to agree with you you are going to be angry all the time.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:38 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I could not agree with you more. Ideas are what count and it does not matter where they come from. When we meet in the public square we have to consider the idea and nothing else.
    Spiritual ideas are not about others but about ourselves. This is why Jesus was so amazing. He was not about forcing others to believe anything. He was saying we should love one another, that we should concentrate on being a better person and that if we trust that the universe or God is love that we can not only endure the pain of life but transcend it. In every moment of every day we only have two choices. Act out of love or act out of fear. Sadly, many Christians especially those like Joe Baxter act out of fear.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 9:13 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Not to be disrespectful, but religious belief has no bearing on secular law. You can argue about what Jesus, God, Allah, Zeus, Thor, The Tooth Fairy, Sasquatch, or Quetzalcoatl might want; none of this has anything to do with the American legal system. As you stated, you both have the freedom to believe anything you like, but in the public square, marriage equality is a civil rights issue. "Sin" has no place in a discussion of civil rights. Either we are all equal before the law or we are not. Clearly, you understand this. Joe does not.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:11 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730


    Andy Crowder said:
    Joe, your holy book has no bearing on US law. None. We have a secular government. What Zeus, Odin, Allah, Sasquatch, or Yaweh have to say is irrelevant. If your church doesn't want to marry gays, then fine. Some churches won't marry people of other faiths; some won't marry previously divorced folks. Enjoy your ancient superstitions, but you can't force people of other faiths or no faith to adhere to your prejudices. Civil marriage and equal rights for gays are a secular issue.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    All I can say is Amen. :)

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 9:06 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Joe, the Old Testament is absolutely clear that eating shrimp is a sin. Oddly, there is no mention of this grievous wrongness in the Gospels.

    As for the "1 Cop" my Bible has no such book.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 8:49 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Joe, your holy book has no bearing on US law. None. We have a secular government. What Zeus, Odin, Allah, Sasquatch, or Yaweh have to say is irrelevant. If your church doesn't want to marry gays, then fine. Some churches won't marry people of other faiths; some won't marry previously divorced folks. Enjoy your ancient superstitions, but you can't force people of other faiths or no faith to adhere to your prejudices. Civil marriage and equal rights for gays are a secular issue.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:34 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joe Baxter said:

    Yeah, just like the Christians that are standing up to "Christians" who ignore the parts of the bible that specifically condemn homosexuality as a sin.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I do not condemn Mr Baxter for believing this. A person has the right in this country to believe what he wants. I believe that you cannot be a follower of Jesus and be a Republican. I believe it is a sin. I could quote many things Jesus said to back up this thesis. Many Republicans believe the exact opposite and they could get their quotes out.

    What fascinates me is that Joe does not want gay couples to have the same rights as heterosexual couples because he views their behavior as sinful. In Vietnam I knew guys who were thought to be gay who paid the ultimate price in the service to their country. That is the part that angers me about Joe's stand on the issue. He cannot just get out of the way and let people be who they are and have the same rights as everyone else. He does not trust the mercy and justice of God to do what is right in the end and that tis why I do not think he is a follower of Jesus

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:58 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Strange you should say it only appears in the Old Testament. Ever read 1 Cop

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:54 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Steve, er, I mean KLee, the Bible is absolutely clear on homosexuality being a sin. No interpretation can result in any other conclusion regardless of how you spin it.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:47 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    If American conservatives spent a fraction of the time they spend worrying about homosexuality condemning the sins that ARE ACTUALLY CONDEMNED IN THE GOSPELS, the world would be a much better place.

    I mean, when was the last time you heard a bagger ranting about the evils of avarice?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:45 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Joe, no one has ever argued that the Old Testament does not condemn homosexuality, eating shrimp and wearing blended fabrics. What I HAVE said is that, while a myriad of sins are condemned in the Gospels, homosexuality is not even mentioned.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:37 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    You see, Joe, the difference between what you support and what I support is that what you believe violates the rights of your fellow Americans because you believe that people of the same sex should not marry, or even profess that love at all. Your belief is exclusive and supports the picking and choosing of what Americans may have the same rights as you and I. We are all created equal and should be afforded the same rights as all Americans in this country.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 5:32 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    So, Joe, you believe that someone should be condemned for loving, and wanting to marry, someone of the same sex?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:01 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Yeah, just like the Christians that are standing up to "Christians" who ignore the parts of the bible that specifically condemn homosexuality as a sin.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 4:04 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Mr. Heath: I would like to see Christians stand up first to disagree with other Christians that use the Bible to defend their bullying of gay people. I realize that the Christian students that walked out of this event are probably not mature enough yet, but it would have been awesome if they stood up amongst that crowd and stated that it is indeed wrong to use the Bible as a reason to back up the bullying of anyone that is gay. Now that would have been something to cheer about indeed!

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 3:57 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Mr. Lucas' post @ 7:29 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012 was very well said.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 3:36 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Patty Maple: Try to address what was actually written. I guess I should have expected this from a man that shouts his pride in physically beating up others. Again, anyone that is proud of beating the “carp” out of someone is not a mature and honorable man.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 3:35 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Pat, this discussion was essentially about Dan Savage's speech and his point that people ignore parts of the Bible they think are immoral, and then use other backward passages as a shield for their prejudices. If you want to talk about equality and fairness, then state your position or relate it to the topic at hand.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 2:49 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle... saying the LNS is liberal is like saying that the Anti Defamation League is antisemitic.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:53 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    No mrc...the LNS does not let the conservatives speak or at a minimum they censor their speech. When are you going to tell me what equality is? How about what is fair?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:51 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mslee: "neither does a Christian man." Hmmm...then why is it that liberals bemoan the "Christian Wars"? Some of the greates warriors in history were Christians...please read before you speak...you make yourself look...well...ignorant. This is why countries including the US, form Armies...to protect those who are less able.

    I will ask again are you homophobic? Calling someone name infering gender as a weapon or slight is just plain bigoted. Smite I be right? Silly girl.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:39 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Mr. Heath wrote, “Being bullied because you're different should never happen — it is an agenda that Savage pushes. However, it's acceptable to publicly bully a group of people in front of their peers because you have the microphone? Because they're Christian? Because they have a certain set of beliefs? Because THEY are different?”

    Mr. Heath: If those Christians are bullying others, as some do to gay people, and pointing to the Bible as reason enough, then yes they should be publicly addressed. Shining a light on such behavior, even when the bullies say they are Christians, is what needs to be done so all may see/know that hiding behind the Bible or Christianity is no excuse for supporting the denial of rights to your fellow Americans. Bullying someone, because of whom they love (another consenting adult), is the complete opposite of Jesus’ teachings.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:33 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    So obviously true. I guess because it was so Pat that I did not think of it.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:25 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Patty Maple wrote, “Ahhhh msl...I wondered when you were going to chime in. Actually, I was very proud of kicking the carp out of the punks who picked on little kids or those of lesser abilities...and sometimes those with greater abilities.”

    Patty: A mature and honorable man does not take pleasure or pride in kicking the "carp" out of someone. And neither does a Christian man.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:21 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    A mature and honorable man does not take pleasure or pride in kicking the "carp" out of someone. And neither does a Christian man.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:47 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I was surprised also. It was rather tame by your standards

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 12:34 pm on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Apparently the LNS is taking your liberal side...or are they just randomly taking comments out?Their reasoning (or your complaining) is tantamount.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:59 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    That would be discussing an idea. It is much easier to demonize a person.

    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
    Eleanor Roosevelt

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 11:39 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    It would appear that there are no conservatives willing to discuss the point that Dan Savage brought up in his speech. Why?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:42 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    No, what you are doing is just throwing out some words. If you were really interested in having a discussion about fair and equal you would state a thesis and provide arguments backing up that thesis.

    You said:
    I will say though that most if not all conservatives and Republicans (and many independents) already know the answer...you just want the easy way out...once again
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here you are actually saying"I am a conservative , I know the answer and you are just a dumb Liberal"
    You make this statement without presenting any thesis or arguments to back it up. You are the one taking the easy way out for you really have said nothing and are just engaging in a thinly veiled personal attack. Grow up. If you want to have an argument about fairness and equality give us your view of it.
    "

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:10 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Gays are not trying to take away your civil rights to practice your religion nor am I. You are trying to keep gays couples from being recognized as being married with all the rights and privileges that entails. Your are doing this because of your religious views. There is no irony here just your religious bigotry.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:58 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    "He is only trying to force his views on those who disagree with him"
    And nobody sees the irony in this statement? Laughable.....

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:43 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Why don't you enlighten us?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:35 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are right. He is only trying to force his views on those who disagree with him

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:02 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    What you are selling with this post I doubt many are buying

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:55 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrlee: WHAT was very well said? BTW when are you going to tell us what equality is or what fair is?

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:52 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    "What Mr Baxter is trying to do is force his religious views on everyone else." He' not shoving them on me...or my kids...or my wife...we call it choice. I choose not to listen or I choose to listen a little bit or I choose to listen and debate. This is an opportunity.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:48 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Ahhhh msl...I wondered when you were going to chime in. Actually, I was very proud of kicking the carp out of the punks who picked on little kids or those of lesser abilities...and sometimes those with greater abilities. I was equally as proud of fighting with the Mexican Mafia as it moved into Woodbridge...eventually they left. mr savage is a punk, a puke, a bully and a moron. In today's world what those young people did was probably the right thing to do...like your buddies of the OW movement did.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:23 am on Sat, May 26, 2012.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Very well said, Mr. Lucas.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:44 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    sadly, very true. It is a form of insanity

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 10:10 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    "Bigotry is the sacred disease."
    Heraclitus

    The opinions of a bigot are not swayed by facts or science.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:23 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joe Baxter said:

    Pat, "bigot" is the go to word for people who can't defend their position. They simply accuse people who disagree with them as being bigoted. I abhor pedophiles, rapists, child beaters and people who are cruel to animals so I guess that makes me a bigot to them as well? No matter how they try to twist the Bible to defend their lifestyle, real Christians know better.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    At least we know where he is coming from. Gay people are the same as pedophiles, rapists, child beaters and people who are cruel to animals. It is because of this that he thinks he has the right to take away the civil rights of committed gay couples. Well, I abhor bigoted people that think gay people are the same as pedophiles, rapists, child beaters and people who are cruel to animals. If I were in the majority would it be right for me to take away Joe Baxter's civil rights? No, because being bigoted is not against the law just as homosexuality is not against the law. Pedophilia, rape, child beating and being cruel to animals are all against the law as well they should be. Mr Baxter if he had his way would probably make being gay against the law if he could do it but it is not.

    What Mr Baxter is trying to do is force his religious views on everyone else.

    People like Mr Baxter do not trust or have faith in the justice and mercy of God. If they were really had faith they would not be so fervent in their efforts to force their belief system on others. They would have sorrow that others would follow a path they think is against God's law and have peace in their heart for they would know in the end that God would do the right thing. Jesus had a lot to say about this but Mr Baxter is not into the gospels but into the Old Testament and Paul. True followers of Jesus know that there job is to set a good example and see to their own mistakes and let God take care of the rest. The way I see it my problem is not Joe baxter but the guy I shave every morning.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 8:09 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Joe, do you eat shrimp?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 8:07 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Did you read any of his books?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 8:04 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Joe, real Christians follow the teachings of Christ. I don't know what you are but, with all your hate and your rage, you certainly are not following the teachings of Christ.

    I will pray for you.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 8:01 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    I sincerely doubt that Mr Baxter has read the Bible. If he has, he certainly didn't understand what he read.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 7:34 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Pat, "bigot" is the go to word for people who can't defend their position. They simply accuse people who disagree with them as being bigoted. I abhor pedophiles, rapists, child beaters and people who are cruel to animals so I guess that makes me a bigot to them as well? No matter how they try to twist the Bible to defend their lifestyle, real Christians know better.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:29 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I already answered you equality and fair thing in the other thread.


    The issue is whether same sex couples should be able to marry and have the same rights and privileges as heterosexuals.

    A gay person who forms a partnership with another gay person in most states is denied those same rights and privileges granted to heterosexual couples. This is a violation of their civil rights. However one feels about homosexuality is immaterial. Those who want to use the law to force their views on homosexuality are by definition bigots. It does not matter whether it is for religious reasons or not. We live in a secular society and not a religious one.

    You claim I am a religious bigot because I do not think religious people have the freedom to force their views on the rest of society. Just like I would not take away a gay person cilil rights I would not take away a religious person's right to practice their religion.

    We both took that step forward and took an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States. We were both willing to die for that piece of paper. I think both of us take that step seriously. For me it means that every citizen is entitled to the rights granted in the bill of rights. For me it means everybody including people and organizations I do not personally like. I despise James Dobson and his focus on the Family outfit but I would not hesitate to take up arms to fight for their right to believe what they believe. When I am fighting for his freedom, I am fighting for my own and I am fighting for the civil rights of gay people


     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:51 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    It is interesting how the term bigot gets thrown around these days. Because you don't think like them you are a bigot.

    mrl: Ever heard of a religious bigot?

    When are you going to answere the question of equality or fair? How about you stevie? Cat got your keyboard??

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:49 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Joe: As I have said many time I am not that religious (Native American) but I do believe in a Supreme Being. It is wonderful though to have such a scholar on ancient and current religious beliefs and tenets. It is equally as wonderful just knowing that his "faith" allows him such a broad spectrum of world theology. Amazing. However, what tops it for me is his suscint use of the English language. For instance telling people they are homophobic.

    Phobia: an irrational fear, terror horror def an irrational or very powerful fear and dislike of something such as spiders or confined spaces. These are both social and physical fears. That would necessarily preclude me from having contact with lesbians, gay men, transgenders and others, BUT since I do have some friends and acquaintances who are homosxeuals that would mean the accusation does not fit..." If the gloves does not fit...then you must acquit!""

    So I say to you little stevie: Man up (once thought to be a disparage to gays) and present your apology on a platter.

    Joe isn't it wonderful to know that we have not only a theologian but a micro-psychologist (little stevie) on this site? I wonder where he hangs his shingle?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 6:11 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Well Pat, I guess that absolutely answers your question "where in the Bible does it say homosexuality is OK. NOT! It is impossible for anyone to answer that question because NOWHERE in the Bible does it say homosexuality is OK.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:03 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I was reading Mr Baxters bromide:

    I wonder if Stevie will share what religion and what church espouses his ideology and chooses to ignore God's laws.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    It is funny how his mind works. If the everything in the Old Testament can be taken as God's Law Mr Baxter is in deep do do. Anyone reading the Old Testament knows this is true. I guess this means he is going downstairs and will still have to put up with all those terrible gay people. That will be interesting. On a serious note it is amazing the lengths people will go to justify their bigotry.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:35 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Pat, the first time Stevie posted this hogwash, I asked a lot of Christian friends, all from different faiths, if their religion believed that God's law should be ignored and follow only the "New Covenant" and without exception they all said "NO". I am amazed at what lengths homosexuals will go to justify their lifestyle. There is a law, still on the books, in California that says you can't bathe two babies in the same tub at the same time. Since it has't been enforced in over a 150 years does that means every other law on the books is should be ignored? I wonder if Stevie will share what religion and what church espouses his ideology and chooses to ignore God's laws.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:23 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    As for Leviticus 20:13, I think that any decent person, regardless of sexual orientation, religious affiliation and party membership would reject such nonsense. Certainly Christ did as he rejected killing of all kind.

    The old laws belonged to the Old Covenant that existed between God and the Jewish people. Christ came with a New Covenant for all of mankind.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:01 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Pat described his words as "(s)poken like a real little man." I will not argue with him.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 4:40 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrss: Spoken like a real little man.

    Most homosexuals do not argue with Lev. 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

    WHAT DID PAUL MEAN BY "UNSEEMLY?"
    "...likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly..."
    It is so easy when reading Scripture to not pay close attention to all the words. These five words "working that which is unseemly" are translated from only one Greek word, aschemosune, and this word is used only one other time in Scripture, which I will now show you so as to remove all doubt as to its meaning:
    "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked, and they SEE his shame [aschemosune]" (Rev. 16:15).
    Here Jesus is using figurative language. In the same way someone is shamed by taking off all their clothing in public (so will those who do not spiritually watch for Jesus be spiritually shamed).
    So what is it that people see when someone is naked? Why, for example, are there many topless beaches around the world where total nudity is not allowed? What shame [aschemosune] is made visible in Rev. 15:16 by walking naked? And what is it that is "working that which is unseemly [aschemosune]" in Rom. 1:27? Some of you are already way ahead of me.
    The King James translators have often chosen words of modesty, so as to not offend the sensitive reader.
    Strong's Greek Dictionary: "unseemly/shame" #808, aschemosune, "an indecency; by implication the pudenda: shame, which is unseemly."
    And just what is the "pudenda?"
    The American Heritage College Dictionary: pudendum/ pl. pudenda n. "The human external genital organs, especially of a woman" (p. 1127). There it is.
    It was the genital organs of the female that:
    "...women did change the natural use into that which is against nature [women with women]: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman [and her genital organs], burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working [with each other's genital organs] that which is unseemly" (Rom. 1:26-27)." What you do in your bedroom little man is your business...don't try to put it in mine.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:21 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    sorry. Darrell said in the above post

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:13 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat said:
    of course... west wing, the liberal idea of reality... comical.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    This was in response to a video I put up because I thought made a valid point. When I put a TED video up that happened to be posted MSNBC(the video is great by the way) he dismissed it because it was posted on MSNBC. If I say something he always comes up with I either do not have the experience or I am a Liberal. These are all different forms of personal attacks. Darrell is coming up to 7000 posts and I have a question for those who have been here longer than I have been;

    HAS DARRELL BAUMBACH EVER IN HIS NEARLY 7000 POST EVER DISCUSSED AN IDEA OR MADE AN ARGUMENT BASED ON A POLITICAL IDEA?
    I have looked and cannot find one so if anyone sees one or knows of one I would like to see it. I might even frame it and send it to him.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:45 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    of course... west wing, the liberal idea of reality... comical.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:44 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    good one Steve.... the old Fox News put down... you are so inventive and original...

    I think you need a new line since I do not watch news presented from any station except on a rare occation. I focus on you tube videos that normally show highlights.... try it....

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 2:45 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Pat asked where in the Bible it says that homosexuality is OK. I would just as easily ask Pat where it says that it is OK for us to wear blended fabrics. Indeed, the Old Testament is full of severe prohibitions against this most grievous of sins.

    For example, Leviticus 19:19 dictates "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." AND Deuteronomy 22:11 commands " Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woolen and linen together."

    The truth is that there is no specific repeal of this Law to be found anywhere in the Bible and yet today almost all Christians wear blends at some time or another without any fear of the wrath of God because CHRIST CAME TO US WITH A NEW COVENANT.

    Christ's teachings supersedes and replaces all of the tired old rules that line the pages of Leciticus and Deuteronomy with a Covenant of Love. No longer do Christians tremble at the sight of a shrimp or a menstruating woman because our Savior has set us free from the laws that were antiquated and outdated even 2000 years ago.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 2:38 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You hit the nail on the head. Gay couples want the same rights as heterosexual couples in regards to the legality of their marriage with all the same rights and privileges.
    You said:

    Compromise does not mean you get to do what you want and to hlel with everyone else. That may be your choice...but the laws of man must be obeyed lest you be punished. So the majority is now looking for a compromise...but the minority wants what it wants.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The compromise will of course be that gay couples will be treated as second class citizens without the rights and privileges of heterosexual couples.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 2:32 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Pat, when I specifically lay out the consequence of your continued use of homophobic slurs, the room for a person of normal or above intelligence to misconstrue that consequence is non existent.

    You may be spending your days cowering in a pool of piddle under your couch because you conjured up an imaginary threat from me but I assure you that no such threat was made (and, obviously, no such apology was offered).

    Time to man up and move on.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:41 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrss: Threats are perceived confrontations...telling me I had better watch out can be construed in many ways...I have said in the past as has others...you are a much better communicator when you leave the anger out of your posts. I am afraid of no one and no thing especially a debate...your comment was not a debate in any way. Choose your words wisely and they will be received with wisdom. I will take that as an apology.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 1:38 pm on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Joe I agree: I am not religious but in my view, God had his son Jesus speak for him and allowed him to teach many people about His wants and beliefs. Some of those are found in the 10 Commandments, others in verses and books. Since printing presses had not been invented yet...certainly the internet wasn't around.. (Al Gore hadn't been born yet) the Word was spread by mouth. Words are how history was kept for centuries.

    If you believe in God then you have to believe at least some of what was said and put into print by his followers and practice what is asked of you. If you don't believe in God then you will do as you please. It is called choice.

    Choice to take your chances about an after-life...good or bad or not at all. However, if you feel free to judge my beliefs and morals and path in life...then I have those same rights that you freely demand from me. You say that because it is not written (which in fact it is written) then it does not exist. I say that because it is written it does exist.

    Where does in say in the Bible that homosxeuality is okay? I have found several that say it is not okay. If you are using the Bible as your foundation for the argument you lose. If you are using the laws of nature...you lose as well. All living things...including plants were designed for procreation...if what you are doing is not in that interest then you are not following the laws of nature. Where else in nature does it take three to make one? Sorry but I have never heard of two consenting buffaloes.

    Even if you take the laws of man and argue on that basis, you will lose as well unless there is corruption involved. If man makes the laws, the majority rules...however, the rules must include the minority positions as well...it is called compromise. Compromise does not mean you get to do what you want and to hlel with everyone else. That may be your choice...but the laws of man must be obeyed lest you be punished. So the majority is now looking for a compromise...but the minority wants what it wants.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:37 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joe Baxter said:

    Darrell, when you are dealing with the type of people who would have claimed that Hitler was actually a caring and compassionate person because he was a dog lover, dialogue is a waste of time. These people also love to twist the Bible in attempts to justify their homosexual lifestye. Choosing to ignore what God said and concentrate what Jesus DIDN'T say. Pathetic.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tell us Joe. what did God say?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 10:02 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Who threatened you Pat? I thought I made it clear that all you stood to lose was your reputation as a decent human being.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:41 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Rich: Maybe you can explain fair?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:35 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    pretty much sums it up

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:10 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Let's see...I get threatened, respond by laughing then get pulled...seems fair to me.

    Dubious...were you there? No. I still have my uniform...maybe I could do a DNA test for you...you must in the idiot realm of the funny farm with msb and mrl. Sad.

    Gotta agree Joe...good thing you didn't use the word master.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:09 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Darrell, when you are dealing with the type of people who would have claimed that Hitler was actually a caring and compassionate person because he was a dog lover, dialogue is a waste of time. These people also love to twist the Bible in attempts to justify their homosexual lifestye. Choosing to ignore what God said and concentrate what Jesus DIDN'T say. Pathetic.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 9:05 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle.... no., you just can't remember what you posted.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 9:04 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    DB, did you read his books or are you just operating on whatever information you got from FOX News and teabagtraitor.com?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:10 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Nope, he was pretty accurate. I think the order was Pat, you, me then Joe.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:05 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Yep, I do not know why guys like Darrell, Pat and Joe post here. They could go to http://www.redstate.com/ or http://www.powerlineblog.com/ and be among fellow right wing people who also do not believe in facts or open and honest discussion. They would be among people who would applaud unfounded personal attacks and people who live in the same bubble where reality can never enter.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:54 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I understand completely. To discuss what actually happened and substantiate ones vicious personal attack would be tiring.It is much easier and more fun just to make broad statements. In fact Darrell you are the king of that sort of thing.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:23 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Steve... you are wrong again

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:21 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Did you read his books? What makes you think Joe was referring to that one event as it relates to his character...

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:53 am on Fri, May 25, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle.... Joe seems to be a little slow in getting back to you.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:11 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    my favorite video on this subject is from the west wing tv show:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD52OlkKfNs

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:45 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joe did you watch the speech? Here it is. Tell us what you think he said that was untrue or what you disagreed with. Lets have a rational discussion about this without all the hyperbole

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao0k9qDsOvs

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 8:24 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Dan Savage is a homosexual "shock jock" that spews vile hatred and garbage to anyoone that will listen to him. He actually does a disservice to the very people he thinks he is promoting. His moronic radical style proves that he is a whack job and should be totally ignored.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:14 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    They got a number of mine also. I goes I was getting out there in cookoo land myself. :)

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 8:03 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle.... DB, almost ALL of your posts were deleted.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:49 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell, give an example of my intolerant rant and we will discuss it. I am sure you are saving my sayings as well as Joanne's

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:28 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    None of my posts were deleted...

     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 7:25 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 147

    Judging by his behavior here and elsewhere, it seems Maple's dubious claims of his being "spit on" in Dallas, if it happened at all, were the result of his foul demeanor and not his military deployment.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:25 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated...Sadly Religious Conservatives faith is fear based.

    No... it is the liberal intolerant left that is fear based... evidenced by the intolerant uninformed rants from Steve Schmidt and John Lucas... Their constant hate speech against conservatives and religious based people is intended to create irrational fear in the minds of the reader.
    Of course there are some religious conservatives that are fear based…bur far less than the left.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:24 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I am glad that did not happen. I would miss my emails from Bill Ayers, miss going to church to see Jeremiah Wright and least but not last not get my checks from George Soros i

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 5:08 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Well, that is good because, if you were talking to me I was TOTALLY going kick you out of the Marxist conspiracy to make Atheism and Sharia the Law of the Land.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:28 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    No, Steve I was talking to Darrell

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:26 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Good point Steve. I have my own religious beliefs. I welcome alternate views for I might learn something. I feel no need to attack others because they believe something else. If your faith is so weak that Dan Savage threatens you the problem is not Dan Savage it is your lack of faith. I think what happens is that Wade's faith is so brittle and fear based that he is afraid that any attack may break it into pieces. In every moment our choice is either love or fear. Sadly Religious Conservatives faith is fear based.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:16 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Are you talking to me?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:10 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Does anyone remember the section of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy that deals with the spaceship full of telephone sanitizers?

    I've been thinking about that passage a lot recently with regard to our conservative friends.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 4:05 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Getting back to Wade's scrawl, ya gotta love the logic. When liberals talk about bullying they are talking about 5 guys holding down a screaming sobbing boy while one of them hacks off his hair.

    When conservatives talk about bullying, they are talking about a single, unarmed gay man exposing students to ideas that might be different than those they were brought up with.

    How can we share a country when we don't even share a language?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 3:58 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You just cannot help yourself can you? The reason the comments were deleted was because of comments just like this one. I notice many of deleted comments were yours. Why don't you back off the personal attacks for a little bit?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 3:57 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    I don't see anything inappropriate here. Can you please point out the posts to which you are referring or have you just misunderstood the meaning of the word "inappropriate" and assumed it means "disagrees with DB"?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 3:15 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    The powers that be decided it was getting a little out of hand. they were probably right

    No... not possible... ... no change at all.

    If comments were removed, had nothing to do with content as evidenced by inappropriate posts by Mr Schimdt and Lucas...

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 2:11 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Looks like there has been a deleting fiesta. Was Pat banned?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:43 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    How about the terms "human beings" or "people". How about caring about whether or not a person is gay is the same importance as if they are left-handed or right handed? That is the core of the argument.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 1:34 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The powers that be decided it was getting a little out of hand. they were probably right :)

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 1:28 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Yeah, Pat. From now on you should call them "light in their loafers", which is apparently an acceptable phrase to describe homosexuals.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:14 pm on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    If you are talking in an economic sense it would mean equal opportunity. If you are talking in a legal sense then it means we are all equal under the law.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:42 am on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    As usual, Lill' Joey, you are full of it. I have never used the Bible in the sense you are trying to imply. Ideas are good or bad and stand up on their own. I have , however learned much from reading the words of Jesus but even then it is the idea that counts. You have never heard me say an idea was right because someone or a book says it is.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 11:12 am on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Seems as though some self described "men of God" have no problem "picking and choosing " which words that God spoke to live by and which to ignore. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:00 am on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Health stated... Bullying is wrong — unless they're Christian...

    I wonder if he was specifically talking about some on this thread who appear to enjoy saying derogatory and slimy things about Christians.

    No... I think this all relates to leadership that Obama lacks... How? Lets take a look...

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 9:47 am on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    I don't know who you are responding to, I (for one) was not even born when you were in the service.

    That said, I am glad that today's liberals have abandoned that attitude and left the abuse of soldiers to the Baptists from Kansas. Today, liberals have been some of the biggest supporters of our service men and women. Our current Congressman, for example, has done a tremendous job of getting services for veterans which is a complete change from our previous conservative representative who, from body armor to medical care, consistently voted against protecting our troops.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:40 am on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Lucas stated... and your point is at 8:39 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012..

    Just a friendly reminder to anyone reading how pointless debating anything with you is. All one needs to do is read what you post to understand your character and what you perceive as fact. That you think any item I quoted you on is fact or appropriate is eye opening to how distorted reality can become. It tells the reader that reality and the world according to Lucas in not in alignment.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 9:38 am on Thu, May 24, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    I was spit on in Dallas Texas and I was coming home from Germany...my brother was attacked in Oakland with a cast on his leg (he died from Agent Orange)...my oldest brother got out of the Navy because of the harassment. You probably dressed up like a hippy and went looking...we had families to support.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 10:43 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    I think he thinks he is somehow coming to the defense of the Westboro Baptists. You called them "kooks" and that offends him?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:55 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    and your point is?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:40 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    good one Steve...you almost sound sincere...

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 7:25 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    I just have to give the following passage from Ms Bobin a shout out on the grounds that it is absolutely brilliant!

    "The Bible supports the stoning of women who are not virgins on their wedding night. The Bible says we cannot eat shell fish. Just a few examples that Savage mentions in his speech.

    We CHANGED all of those (for the most part), but we continue to point to the Bible to justify anti-gay bullying and attitudes.

    What about that don't you get, Mr. Maple?"

     
  • John Lucas posted at 7:20 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    The Westborro types are not the worst. Everyone knows they are kooks. It is the mainstream right wing churches that are scary. At least if the Westborro types had the power the would burn you to the stake screaming hatred at you. The others would do the same thing but tell you they are doing it for your good and are burning you at the stake because they love you.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 7:06 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Darrell wrote: "Contrast to the liberal crowd who spit on Viet Nam vets.

    DB, Vietnam was 40 years ago. Today, the only people spitting on returning vets are the members of the Westboro Baptist Church and they are just about the most conservative, homophobic people on the planet.

    Perhaps you should spend less time worrying about ancient history and more time worrying about your spiritual and political brothers in arms.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 6:52 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2242

    Chuckle... they courageously refused to listen to a view that differed from their own.

    Yup, that's conservatives for you!

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:51 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I have heard about the spitting on Vietnam vets but I never personally experienced it. To the contrary coming home from Vietnam I bought a motorcycle and left Texas and went up the coast of California. The truth is that it got me laid a number of times. The ladies felt sorry for me and who was I to not let them lighten my load so to speak.
    The Occupy wall street people change the whole dialog that was going on in this country and brought to everyones attention what top 1/10 of one percent was doing to the rest of us. They are heroes in my book.
    The problem with unions is that they do not cover enough people. When the people at Wal mart get unionized this world will be a better place.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:40 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Pat stated...The kids who left the auditorium were in my book heroes.

    In my opinion,I think of them as mature adults who appropriately took action in a way that conservatives do well. Contrast to the liberal crowd who spit on Viet Nam vets and who engage in violent protests like Occupy Wallstreet and union thugs.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:23 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I will let Mr Crowder speak for me:

    Hundreds of young people have committed suicide and probably thousands more have been beaten by Christian youths empowered by their faith and their Bible. Nearly all of the anti-gay hate in this country is spewed by Christians citing the Bible. It is not bullying to point out that bullies hide behind the Bible. These same Bulies for Jesus ignore the Bible's unequivocal endorsement of slavery, the buying and selling of human beings as personal property. Christians toss aside the Bible's ignorant and uncomfortable messages about all kinds of things from both the Old and New Testaments. Yet, when ancient superstition matches their own prejudices, they hold it up as morally righteous, disregarding science and the golden rule to torment people for no reason other than that they are different. The Koran and other ancient holy books are no better and sometimes worse. Pointing this out is not bullying. These journalism students were voluntarily attending a conference and almost certainly knew Mr. Savage's opinions in advance. They are not cut out for the field of journalism if they must run off rather than listen to someone state painful truth and strident opinion, opinion born out of decades of personal mistreatment and discrimination.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:13 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Ignore the above comment. I did not read your post well enough. I will take you at your word. As to this:

    Try being a man once mrl...men take up for those who cannot take up for themselves.

    As to the first part it is just ignorance as you do not know me but the second part is very true and for you to even say it is why I take you at your word.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:03 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Then explain this comment on when you saw Dan Savage on Television:

    watched the punk also...this guy is a punk...the same kind of punk that I used to kick the carp out of in high school.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:56 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    As for mr savage: The kids who left the auditorium were in my book heroes. They did not allow themselves to be bullied or demeaned. I would like to meet the young person who first found the courage to leave...thus giving the many more what was needed for them to leave. A punk is a punk is a punk...especially when they corner a young child and then take their hate and frustrations out on them.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 3:48 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrl: Stupid. I left football as a senior to play waterpolo so I could get a scholarship to the Univ of Arkansas...one of the "football and wrestling players" called me a pssuy for doing so...first I kicked his btut on the wrestling mat then in the pool (that was the bet) he didn't want to box after that. Those are the kind of fights I enjoyed. In HS Donald Hoag was a friend of mine (he was a special-ed kid) that got picked on quite a bit...until I kicked the btuts of a few of his tormentors. Most/all of my fights were with bullies and punks...people picking on those smaller, weaker or different. Has been always will be.

    As far as picking on those of a different persuasion...never did it. Never had to. Try being a man once mrl...men take up for those who cannot take up for themselves.
    I coached kids for 25 years...never met one I couldn't like.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 12:22 pm on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    I have never complained about how you dish it out and have had an admiration for your never whining about getting it back in return. However your post above is first class whining and I have never seen the victim card played so well. Well done!!

    By the way Pat, we all are dying to hear the details of the following:
    watched the punk also...this guy is a punk...the same kind of punk that I used to kick the carp out of in high school.
    We all want to know did you get off beating up on gay kids? As most people are not bullies we would like to know how it feels to go after kids weaker than you and as you say"I used to kick the carp out of in high school." A bully actually admitting this sort of thing is a rare and we would like at the inside the mind of someone who openly glorifies such behavior. I know you will not let us down

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 11:51 am on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    msb: Abuse? You are picking on me! It is okay for people to use the t-word, call people liars, impune their reputations, accuse them of sexula deviances and threats, but if I question someone's mastery of the language, printed ideas, use of suspect information or downright misinformation, undercuting messages or their calling others disgusting names you get upset. Tough. Go whine to the wall.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:32 am on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Joanne, I have to disagree. The more Mr Maple talks(and this goes for Mr Baumbach too) the better it is for those opposed to their insanity. Their inability to have an open and honest discussion is there for the world to see. Their inability to stay on point and engage in an adult discussion does much more damage to their cause than they not talking at all. Even if they get abusive at times I say LET THEM SPEAK!!!!

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:15 am on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    You are surely right about the MM prison gang but his writings lead me to believe he is like his hero Mr Romney. I can see him beating up on those weaker than him very easily. People with his political views enjoy the power trip of preying on the weak and defenseless. Other people are not real them and they lack an essential empathy and are totally unable to put themselves in someone else's shoes

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:52 am on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Just another example of Mr. Maple's warped thinking and the entitlement he feels.

    Actually, his stories about beating up kids in high school and taking on the Mexican Mafia on the streets of Lodi (btw - the MM is a prison gang not really known for roaming the streets) is a bunch of the usual Maple BS. Never happened.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:46 am on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Why Mr. Maple has continually been allowed to make abusive comments really puzzles me.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:20 am on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Yes I have called DB and Mr Portman liars. The difference between you and I is that state exactly what they are lying about. It is a manly and a character thing.

    By the way Pat, we all are dying to hear the details of the following:

    watched the punk also...this guy is a punk...the same kind of punk that I used to kick the carp out of in high school.

    We all want to know did you get off beating up on gay kids? As most people are not bullies we would like to know how it feels to go after kids weaker than you and as you say"I used to kick the carp out of in high school." A bully actually admitting this sort of thing is a rare and we would like at the inside the mind of someone who openly glorifies such behavior. I know you will not let us down

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 6:04 am on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    mrl: another stupid statement. I may call you an idiot, illinformed, stupid, moronic, cutlic, terminated or blue...but not usually. I have seen your posts specifically calling DB a liar...perhaps you are confused or just blue.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:31 am on Wed, May 23, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    can you be more clear what you mean by taking both sides on an issue... I think your thinking is off. I am not taking two sides of any issue

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:46 pm on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell, this is what drives people crazy. Here are two of your statements:

    I do not support mandating Social Security, health care ( Obamacare) or legislation that mandates medical testing. I am consistent.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    then you say:

    However, I do not condemn legislators that make abortion legal nor do I condemn legislators mandating various medical tests.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    You are not consistent and are taking both sides of the issue. Could you not be a little clearer on where you stand on making women have unnecessary medical procedures before having an abortion?

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:46 pm on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell, this is what drives people crazy. Here are two of your statements:

    I do not support mandating Social Security, health care ( Obamacare) or legislation that mandates medical testing. I am consistent.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    then you say:

    However, I do not condemn legislators that make abortion legal nor do I condemn legislators mandating various medical tests.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    You are not consistent and are taking both sides of the issue. Could you not be a little clearer on where you stand on making women have unnecessary medical procedures before having an abortion?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:26 pm on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Personally Mr Lucas, I do not think you are lying. I just think you are wrong on a vast majority of points you make.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:23 pm on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin... it is Mr Crowder that is using the word "fact"...He is claiming what he is saying is not his opinion but actual provable facts.

    I think this is an opinion forum where people like me and you are invited to articulate our opinions about subject matters. In my opinion, Mr. Crowder is not being factual at all.

    I am not claiming everything I state is provable beyond doubt...these are my opinions based on experience and education. I do my best to articulate truth as I see it.

    In my opinion, you do your best to distort reality.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:31 pm on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Pat, you accused my of lying. Is it possible for you to be a little more specific?

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 3:09 pm on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Joanne, they can't answer. They are unable to address our points on merit because it will invalidate Wade's faulty reasoning, so they make personal attacks and toss out red herrings.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:49 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Interesting that this is just one of FOUR Christian "pastors" in North Carolina who gave hateful anti-homosexual "sermons" in their churches recently.

    The reference Mr. Lucas provided was the most hateful to date with his "Christian" parishioners cheering everything he said.

    Disgusting!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:37 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Wade Heath wrote: "Savage was, of course, trying to create a compare-and-contrast moment between slavery and homosexuality in the Bible."

    This is one glaring reason why Wade Heath is a really terrible writer. He thinks this was a "compare and contrast moment."

    Compare and contrast:

    "Pertaining to a written exercise about the similarities and differences between two or more people, places, or things."

    If you didn't get the concept of compare and contrast in 5th grade, which Mr. Heath obviously did not, then one can be confused, as Mr. Heath obviously is.

    The only thing Dan Savage was doing was comparing our ATTITUDES toward various things that the Bible condemns to our attitudes TODAY toward these same issues. Homosexuality is, according to Savage, the last thing the Bible condemns that those who believe in the Bible refuse to take a modern day view.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 11:31 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Good post Joanne. I doubt Mr Maple gets any of it. When he said this he let out the inner Maple talking about Dan Savage:

    I watched the punk also...this guy is a punk...the same kind of punk that I used to kick the carp out of in high school.

    He admitted he enjoyed beating gay people in High School. People who are bullies usually hide it better than this. He is as bad at hiding it as his hero Mr Romney

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:14 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Maple wrote:

    "Where does slavery exist in the US today? Nowhere. Why? Because thousands of white men and women gave their lives so that it DIDN'T exist. Trying to compare homosexuality to slavery is dishonest and disgraceful."

    Let's take this apart sentence by sentence:

    "Where does slavery exist in the US today?

    One example: Within the United States, Latin American immigrant women and children are entrapped in sexual slavery both via the actions of international criminal sex trafficking networks, and by way of the actions of internal criminal gangs and networks.

    "Because thousands of white men and women gave their lives so that it DIDN'T exist."

    Notice the need to state "white men and women." I am sure the 180,000 black soldiers who fought in the Civil War would take issue with Mr. Maple's less than educated statement.

    "Trying to compare homosexuality to slavery is dishonest and disgraceful."

    Another instance where Mr. Maple is commenting on an issue that has nothing to do with the issue at hand - continuing issues with comprehension.

    There is no "comparison" of homosexuality to slavery. The point that Dan Savage was making was that those who point to the Bible to justify their anti-homosexual stance are CHERRY PICKING the issues. The Bible supports slavery. The Bible supports the stoning of women who are not virgins on their wedding night. The Bible says we cannot eat shell fish. Just a few examples that Savage mentions in his speech.

    We CHANGED all of those (for the most part), but we continue to point to the Bible to justify anti-gay bullying and attitudes.

    What about that don't you get, Mr. Maple?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:42 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumbach wrote:

    "Mr Crowder stated...salient facts

    good one... salient facts... he is not ignoring anything... there are no facts to address.

    Maybe you can clarify why you perceive what you said was factual... it more more a rant on how you feel ...not fact at all."

    As one who has proclaimed himself to be non-religious, does not follow a religion, or perhaps, in reality, is embarrassed to admit he was raised in a religion considered to be a minority religion in this area, Mr. Baumbach seems to think he can comment on others' remarks about religion, declaring them "not fact at all."

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:31 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumbach wrote:

    Ms Bobin stated…Sorry to disappoint, Mr. Baumbach. I watch The Daily Show for entertainment and the guest interviews

    But in a previous post…Joanne Bobin posted at 12:53 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011… and Jon Stewart's guest was Lawrence Lessig, a Harvard law professor whose recent book, "Republic Lost: How Money Corrupts Congress - and a Plan to Stop It," was discussed.

    I know your ADHD makes it difficult for you to focus, Mr. Baumbach, but try.

    I said "for the guest interviews," and you so kindly mocked my comment by highlighting a GUEST INTERVIEW that I mentioned.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:03 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Here is a Christian Pastor showing his love for Gays and Lesbians.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d2n7vSPwhSU

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:57 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1460

    mrm... Foolish
    Thousands of white men and women gave their lives using the Bible to defend slavery.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:42 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    this is the conversation you are referring to:

    Very illuminating, Pat said:
    I watched the punk also...this guy is a punk...the same kind of punk that I used to kick the carp out of in high school.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Maybe if Mr. Romney comes to town you two can get together and fondly remember the things you share in your good old high school days.


    You both seem to get a kick out of beating up on people. You and Romney could relive the hijinks of fun you had bullying up on people who were different than you in High School. You know just relive the good old days.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 8:31 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1460

    Joe it doesn't matter wether mediamatters has a bias view or not what they have is actual proof if you care to look at the videos you can see the clips that fox edited to suite their bias but of course you wont watch the videos because that would challenge your bias.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 8:27 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell, this is what drives people crazy. Here are two of your statements:

    I do not support mandating Social Security, health care ( Obamacare) or legislation that mandates medical testing. I am consistent.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    then you say:

    However, I do not condemn legislators that make abortion legal nor do I condemn legislators mandating various medical tests.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    You are not consistent and are taking both sides of the issue. Could you not be a little clearer on where you stand on making women have unnecessary medical procedures before having an abortion?


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:08 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Crowder perceives and stated...Nearly all of the anti-gay hate in this country is spewed by Christians citing the Bible

    Completely false. I am not Christian but know many who are. Never met one that "hates" anyone claiming they are gay. I have heard many say hate the sin... but love the sinner.
    I have heard many Christians talk about love when it comes to all people. I think if a person hates a person that they are not a Christian by definition. Therefore, Mr Crowder is spreading gossip and rumor when he states that "Christians" hate gay people.

    I am not talking about sin hear... I am talking about hate. Mr Crowder appears to hate Christians by his constant remarks. Just who actual hates who is the question.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:58 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Crowder stated...salient facts

    good one... salient facts... he is not ignoring anything... there are no facts to address.

    Maybe you can clarify why you perceive what you said was factual... it more more a rant on how you feel ...not fact at all.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 6:58 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Kinderman, you are completely ignoring salient facts of the situation. Did you even read my post at 5:51 Mon? You've completely dropped the context for the remarks and the walk out.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 6:51 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Including yourself, Kindseth. How about you address the issue and the points that I brought up about the issue.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:58 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Mr Kindseth...there is no such thing a discourse in the news...it is just someone telling you what happened...from THEIR perspective. In other words their opinions.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 5:57 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    msb: I like punk rock. Heavy metal too. "Maybe if Mr. Romney comes to town you two can get together and fondly remember the things you share in your good old high school days"...probably...he didn't smoke dope or drop acid either...BO did.

    JK: mr savage...? Where does slavery exist in the US today? Nowhere. Why? Because thousands of white men and women gave their lives so that it DIDN'T exist. Trying to compare homosexuality to slavery is dishonest and disgraceful.

    Occupy what? The news. EVERYTHING BUT the ECONOMY...STUPIDS!

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 12:01 am on Tue, May 22, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2327

    Mr. Houdack, while you may not like my answer as to why I choose not to address such matters of faith on this forum, that of course is your problem to deal with as you see fit. What does surprise me about folks like you is this notion that you are somewhat deserving of an answer.

    You should try and understand however, that like those who quietly stood up and left the auditorium during Mr. Savage's rant, I would have taken the same tack had I been in attendance. In other words, he wouldn't be worthy of my time and attention given his utter disrespect for those who gave of theirs to him.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 10:26 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell, this is what drives people crazy. Here are two of your statements:

    I do not support mandating Social Security, health care ( Obamacare) or legislation that mandates medical testing. I am consistent.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    then you say:

    However, I do not condemn legislators that make abortion legal nor do I condemn legislators mandating various medical tests.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    You are not consistent and are taking both sides of the issue. Could you not be a little clearer on where you stand on making women have unnecessary medical procedures before having an abortion?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:35 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Your conclusion is absurd Mr Lucas... I did not take two sides of anything.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:18 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Darrell, this is what drives people crazy. Here are two of your statements:

    I do not support mandating Social Security, health care ( Obamacare) or legislation that mandates medical testing. I am consistent.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    then you say:

    However, I do not condemn legislators that make abortion legal nor do I condemn legislators mandating various medical tests.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    You are not consistent and are taking both sides of the issue. Could you not be a little clearer on where you stand on making women have unnecessary medical procedures before having an abortion?

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 9:05 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    John Kindseth Posts: 242

    I find that most commentarians have posted comments devoid of anything that resemble responses to the editorial writer.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 9:04 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    this is what drives people crazy. Here are two of your statements:

    I do not support mandating Social Security, health care ( Obamacare) or legislation that mandates medical testing. I am consistent.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    then you say:

    However, I do not condemn legislators that make abortion legal nor do I condemn legislators mandating various medical tests.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    You are not consistent and are taking both sides of the issue. Could you not be a little clearer on where you stand on making women have unnecessary medical procedures before having an abortion?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:55 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin stated…Sorry to disappoint, Mr. Baumbach. I watch The Daily Show for entertainment and the guest interviews

    But in a previous post…Joanne Bobin posted at 12:53 pm on Wed, Dec 14, 2011… and Jon Stewart's guest was Lawrence Lessig, a Harvard law professor whose recent book, "Republic Lost: How Money Corrupts Congress - and a Plan to Stop It," was discussed.
    Professor Lessig make a brief comment that was similar to yours about electronic voting. His discussion was quite interesting - so much so that Stewart extended the interview. If you care to see it, check out the Comedy Central website and check "The Daily Show" for 12/13.
    I know that Mr. Baumbach will probably renew his mockery of my watching this program, but there are some very insightful interviews on the show that have nothing to do with comedy.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:50 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin... please help us all. For argument sake, let us assume that Fox goes off the air and is out of business.

    What news broadcast would you suggest people watch to get a fair objective news report? Which reporter do you find objective.


     
  • Rick Houdack posted at 8:08 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Rick Houdack Posts: 147

    I haven't seen any response from the most self-righteous of the conservatives that actually addresses the issue as Savage did. Kinderman and his posse have carefully avoided the topic.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 7:12 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    You are welcome. It takes only the most low effort thinking to reproduce partisan talking points in the form of a poorly written column and even less to defend it. It seems few are interested in discussing the meat of the matter. To do so in this case might cause someone to rethink their belief in ancient superstition--a scary proposition when your savior says he loves you unconditionally but is willing to torture you mercilessly for all eternity for using logic, reason, and compassion.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 6:29 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Maple: I would respond to your post, but apparently it is Duncan Pirnie time for you and I couldn't make head nor tail out of whatever it was you said.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 6:27 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Baumbach erroneously wrote: "Ms Bobin.... who besides Stewart, Tina Fey, Bill Maher, MSNBC and the rest of the comedy club do you get accurate reporting?"

    Sorry to disappoint, Mr. Baumbach. I watch The Daily Show for entertainment and the guest interviews. I do not watch "Tina Fey?" Do they do the "news" on 30Rock? Don't subscribe to HBO, so don't, nor do I care to, watch Bill Maher. MSNBC is on my rotation, along with CNN, FOX, PBS, BBC, NPR, Telemundo, and Univision.

    I didn't watch Current when Keith Olbermann went there and couldn't care less that he was fired.

    As for bias, most "news talk shows" have their bias. It is up to the observer to do some work and find out what is straight reporting and what is spin. Most of FOX is spin based on editing of video and changing positions on an issue when they wish to attack someone - mostly done by Hannity and the 3 Stooges. The "no spin zone" is run by a bully by the name of Bill O'Reilly who shouldn't really bother to have guests because he talks over them as soon as they open their mouths - and speaking of comedy - he has that idiot Dennis Miller - he and Bill are the only ones who "get" his jokes.

    Anything else you would care to know? I'm sure you are busy putting your spin on whatever I just wrote.

    No doubt you'll be making up new lies about what YOU perceive I watch. The point is, at least I watch the news instead of making it up as you do.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 6:10 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Thank you for saying what I would have like to have said but did not have the skill to do so.

     
  • Andy Crowder posted at 5:59 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Andy Crowder Posts: 245

    Hundreds of young people have committed suicide and probably thousands more have been beaten by Christian youths empowered by their faith and their Bible. Nearly all of the anti-gay hate in this country is spewed by Christians citing the Bible. It is not bullying to point out that bullies hide behind the Bible. These same Bulies for Jesus ignore the Bible's unequivocal endorsement of slavery, the buying and selling of human beings as personal property. Christians toss aside the Bible's ignorant and uncomfortable messages about all kinds of things from both the Old and New Testaments. Yet, when ancient superstition matches their own prejudices, they hold it up as morally righteous, disregarding science and the golden rule to torment people for no reason other than that they are different. The Koran and other ancient holy books are no better and sometimes worse. Pointing this out is not bullying. These journalism students were voluntarily attending a conference and almost certainly knew Mr. Savage's opinions in advance. They are not cut out for the field of journalism if they must run off rather than listen to someone state painful truth and strident opinion, opinion born out of decades of personal mistreatment and discrimination.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:45 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Yes, that quoting people verbatim and showing the video of what they said is horrible. They should just sit there and let the liars of the right wing just get away with it.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 5:05 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    MediaMatters? Surely you are kidding. Even ignorant people know MediaMatters and MoveOn publish exactly what George Soros and Obama pays them to say. Honestly, people who say FOX is bad then have the gall to offer viewpoints from these extreme right wing liberal propaganda organizations as truth? These BS outlets don't even pretend to be truthful, fair or balanced in their reporting. Blatant dissemination of half truths, non-truths and unprovable accusations meant to incite. Anyone with any sense of intelligence should be able to see these propaganda outlets for exactly what they are. Apparently not.

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:03 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    sorry that is 5 pants on fire and 14 false ratings

     
  • John Lucas posted at 5:02 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Ryan Jameson said:
    joanne; please cite me a reference of an outright lie told by any reporter on Fox News or any mis-statement that was not corrected within 24 hours.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here are 21 as per politifact. Two lies of the year. 14 pants on fire lies. and 14 false rating.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/jun/22/jon-stewarts-politifact-segment-annotated-edition/

     
  • John Lucas posted at 4:27 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    John Lucas Posts: 2730

    Very illuminating, Pat said:

    I watched the punk also...this guy is a punk...the same kind of punk that I used to kick the carp out of in high school.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Maybe if Mr. Romney comes to town you two can get together and fondly remember the things you share in your good old high school days.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:58 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1460

    The "mainstream media companies are owned by some of the largest corporations in this country care to exp[lain why they would be biased toward a bunch of liberals? Why would they advance the cause of business hating, socialist leaning Obama? Thats what happens when you get so far to the right that moderates look like lefties.

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 3:35 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1460

    http://mediamatters.org/action/fox_crops/write

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 3:00 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Joanne, must be really frustrating considering your "control freak" personna not to be able to control which columnist LNS publishes. Need some Rolaids?

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 2:57 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1843

    Joanne, I bet you cried real tears when Olberman got fired, again. He was too much of radical liberal for Al Gore? I never said I watched FOX, an assumption on your part. Believe it or not, some of us are able to garner information from across the spectrum and form our OWN political decisions. Even the liberal outlets don't intimidate me as much as FOX seems to intimidate liberals. Wonder why that is? FOX, and other conservative outlets, report on issues the liberal media buries. Kind of hard to be fairly informed when you are only presented with only one side of the issue, the liberal side. Millions of lazy voters rely solely on liberal television networks, totally ignorant to dissenting viewpoints and facts.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:19 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    The above actually belongs under Mr. Tillet's post.

    Hey, BAXTER...it's like not being able to turn your eyes away from a car wreck.

    Also, Wade Heath has an IN as the descendant of a prominent Lodi citizen. That and his history since high school of writing for the LNS will not get him booted, even though his amateur efforts do not deserve to be published anywhere.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:19 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Ms Bobin.... who besides Stewart, Tina Fey, Bill Maher, MSNBC and the rest of the comedy club do you get accurate reporting?

    Can you name reporters and communicators that you think are not biased and give the viewer truth?

    You seem to be an expert on what is and is not biased... maybe you can share your wisdom with all so we can get the truth as you see it. I am so much looking forward to seeing "real news" as you see it.

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:18 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    Billy O'Reilly apparently is her hero!!!

     
  • Patrick W Maple posted at 2:16 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Pat Maple Posts: 1805

    msb: I wonder if you are correct...it appears that they don't read ms n's columns either.
    "The anti-homosexual references and other references to the Bible that Savage made in his speech refered to Hebrew scripture,...""point to the Bible" ?? msb: you are trying to join mrh in writing yourself around you statements. Parsing anyone?

    JK: I watched the punk also...this guy is a punk...the same kind of punk that I used to kick the carp out of in high school. I can tell you this...were I there...the protest would have been much bigger and much longer. Our schools allow this and yet they want to tell kids they can't even mention God in their commencement speeches because someone in the audience ("a captured audience rule") might be offended.

    JB: Once again...very good illumination.

    RJ: msb watches FOX!!...take that and run with it...have some fun! From daylight..."the 3 stooges on FOX and Friends, all the way to "...jobs at FOX News". She knows them by first and last name (even spelled them right) What a fan!!!

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:14 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Hallelujah! Let's put all the "q u e e r s and lesbians in an electrified pen."

    This so-called man of God....but it's OK, he'll repent (maybe) on his deathbed in the hope he will go to heaven.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:10 pm on Mon, May 21, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Maybe this is what Savage was referring to...
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

    Another post from our far left friend from a far left paper with a far left conclusion. He gets a link that he perceives represents the issue and wants people to believe he his fair and balanced. I think he watches too much Fox News.

    I am not concerned about what this teacher's bias tells him... I am concerned about what was actually said and done. What he said was “ THE BIBLE IS A RADICALLY PRO SLAVERY DOCUMENT”...
    This to a group of students who were there for educational purposes... He was confrontational and hostile and insulting to a group of students he was addressing.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao0k9qDsOvs

    Mr Savage stated ...we have learned to ignore the bullshit in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation. [applause] We ignore bullshit in the Bible about all sorts of things. The Bible is a radically pro-slavery document. Slave owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War and justified it. The shortest book in the New Testament is a letter from Paul to a Christian slave owner about owning his Christian slave. And Paul doesn’t say “Christians don’t own people.” Paul talks about how Christians own people.