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Joe Guzzardi California’s unsound Dream Act must be stopped

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Welcome to the discussion.


  • Kim Parigoris posted at 1:51 pm on Mon, Dec 12, 2011.

    Kim Parigoris Posts: 470

    I bring this up only because Mr Sweet says "republicans want you to dehumanize a group of people" Perhaps Mr Sweet should order this book ---http://shop.wallbuilders.com/Setting-the-Record-Straight-American-History-in-Black-and-White-Book and see just who has been the polticial party that has expoited "a group of people" namely African Americans, or whatever the poltically correct term du jour is. Also I take it that Mr Sweet does not work in the construction industry, where stolen S.S. numbers are used to gain employment and they then claim married 10 on their W-4 so that no taxes are taken out-- then do not file at the end of the year. I believe this is called identity Theft and is illegal.

  • Grant Morita posted at 11:40 am on Sat, Dec 10, 2011.

    Grant28 Posts: 1

    It's now been estimated the "Dream Act" will cost CA at least 65 million annually now, and this figure will only go up each year. Also, it's now been determined that the money illegal immigrants will receive will cause legal residents to receive less. See the links below. I have petitions. If you want to sign email me at granitnstockton@gmail.com



  • Pete Hodge posted at 5:08 am on Fri, Dec 9, 2011.

    Pete Hodge Posts: 11

    This country, as a whole, already does too much coddling to illegal immigrants. I refuse to support any legislation that benefits them. Same reason I refuse to do business with Wells Fargo, Western Union, or Infinity Insurance (to name a few) as they do EXTENSIVE business with illegal immigrants. I mow my own lawn, I only work for employers who use E-Verify, and I do proudly support local merchants who also use E-Verify.

  • Bob Silvano posted at 5:22 pm on Thu, Dec 8, 2011.

    Bob Silvano Posts: 145

    There's a very good reason we bestowed the nickname "Moonbeam" upon Brown the first time around. Perhaps we should update the nickname for this term to “Moonbeam II”.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:24 am on Thu, Dec 8, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr West... thank you for such an educational post. You shed light that
    in my view, should be embraced.

  • J. Alec West posted at 3:33 am on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.

    AlecWest Posts: 1

    The Dream Act is just the tip of the iceberg. The bigger picture?

    The media has largely portrayed the illegal immigration debate as having two adversaries – the illegals and US citizens. But, this portrayal neglects the people caught in the middle – the people who suffer most due to unchecked illegal immigration. Namely, the legal immigrants.

    My ex-wife and I met when she was assigned as an aide to the Trade Minister at the Philippine Consulate in Los Angeles. She even had a diplomatic passport. When we married and, later, she became a naturalized US citizen, we petitioned her 4 siblings – 1 brother and 3 sisters. At the time, when 2 citizens petitioned an alien relative, the wait time was about 3 years. It took them 6 years to get their petitions approved. Why? Because the Department of State pushes back the window of entry for legal immigrants to take the estimates of illegal immigrants into consideration.

    When they finally got their petitions approved and came to the US, 1 sister got a job as a motel maid while the other 3 siblings got jobs at a local farm picking fruits and vegetables. Note that these are the kinds of jobs that some people say will only be done by illegals.

    Alongside them in the fields were other Pacific Islanders, Asians, a large family from Kenya, a sizable contingent of workers from the post-Soviet republics, and others. And yes, there were also Mexicans/Latinos in the fields.

    One day, the farmer (Joe) decided to streamline his payroll. On a certain date, he would abandon daily cash payments in favor of a weekly paycheck (with the usual deductions withheld). All workers were given I-9 and W-4 forms to fill out and return before Joe's plan took effect. On the day the plan took effect, all of the Pacific Islanders showed up. All of the Asians showed up. All of the Kenyan's showed up. And all of the workers from the post-Soviet republics and elsewhere showed up. But, only a handful of the Mexicans/Latinos showed up.

    Joe called all his remaining workers together and asked them to tell their friends and relatives that jobs were available. In less than 2 days, his fields were full of workers again.

    Point is, there are a large number of legal immigrants who would love nothing better than doing the jobs “only illegals” would do … if only they could get to those jobs first. But, the legals who would do those jobs are faced by two obstacles. First, their petition wait time is doubled due to the large influx of illegals. In the case of my in-laws, illegals pretty much took 3 years of income out of their pockets – just as surely as if they'd been robbed at gunpoint. The second obstacle once they finally make landfall in the US is the sheer number of illegals who beat them to the job sites. Legals are simply outnumbered.

    I'm a firm believer in the idea that all immigrants should be treated equally without regard to race, color, creed or national origin. Illegals don't believe this. They believe that they should be given “preferential” treatment over all other races, colors, creeds, and national origins. In addition, they believe that if their violation goes unnoticed or unpunished for a period of years, they're “more” entitled to that preferential treatment. And this belief is bolstered if not championed by politicians who are sympathetic to the same belief (ie., the Dream Act).

    Remember Rosa Parks – the African-American woman who in 1955 was ordered to “go to the back of the bus” in Mississippi to make way for white passengers? Her refusal to do so is considered a landmark event in the civil rights movement. Now, we have a whole new class of people just like Rosa – the legal immigrants. They are being ordered to go to the back of the “immigration” bus to make way for illegals. Who, besides me, will speak for their civil rights?

    One of the biggest arguments used by those who support illegals is that they pay taxes like everyone else. But to a legal immigrant, it's not an issue of whether or not illegals pay taxes. It's an issue of who SHOULD be paying those taxes – the immigrant who obeys the law or the immigrant who doesn't?

    Another big argument they use is the sheer poverty of the illegals that forced them across the border to find work. Question. How many of you have seen a Philippine barrio? How many of you have seen a ghetto in Thailand? I've seen both. And, I've been to Mexico as well. The poverty Mexicans/Latinos complain about is not unique to them. So, which immigrant has a greater moral right to come here due to their poverty – the immigrant who comes her legally or the immigrant who comes here illegally?

    Guest worker programs? Are they being offered universally to all immigrants without regard to race, color, creed or national origin – or are these programs “reserved” for Mexicans/Latinos? Either way, consider this.

    One of the biggest problems faced by the Department of State insofar as “legal” aliens are concerned are those who overstay their visa limits. A guest worker program would primarily appeal to immigrants who would otherwise be illegal … giving them protected entry into this country. But, it would also provide them with the time and financial ability to figure out ways to overstay their program limits and disappear into the woodwork of society.

    I do not have the facts and figures in front of me. But, I think it's safe to say that more illegal immigrants come from Mexico than from any other country. And when a country like the US is faced with such a huge illegal immigration problem, the wisest course is to go after the majority of violators first. Unfortunately, the deportation scheme to Mexico is nothing but a shell-game. Basically, illegal Mexican immigrants are given a free bus ride across the border and dropped off. Their drop-off point might even be close enough for them to see the border. Currently, those deported know that if they “re-cross” the border (and I suspect re-crossings are widespread), their only punishment if caught would be another free bus ride. I have a solution to this problem which, in the long run, would likely be cost-effective.

    First, stop the free bus rides. Instead, detain them in a single facility until there are enough Mexican illegals to fill a C130 cargo plane. Then, load them up and fly them to Chetumal – dropping them off there. Chetumal is the southernmost city in Mexico on the border with Belize. In order to re-cross the US border, illegals would have to travel the entire length of Mexico to reach it – a task few if any of them would be capable of handling, physically or financially.

    In closing, let me say that I'm in favor of immigration reform – but, perhaps not the kind of reform most people think about when the use the word. Two things need to happen – vigorous enforcement of existing laws and expedited petition approvals for legal immigrants who want to come to the US the legal way. In addition to that, it would be wise to ban all “daily cash payment” work, requiring all employers to mandate employees to fill out I-9 and W-4 forms – and checking all Social Security numbers against the eVerify system.

    One final note. Many illegals bypass the requirement of a Social Security number by applying for an “ITIN” number (Individual Tax ID Number). The ITIN number was created for two purposes – to provide numbers for those who ran their own businesses prior to the requirement of having a Social Security number – and for foreign investors who are required to pay US taxes. If individual workers use ITIN numbers, their names should be given to the Department of State for further scrutiny since they're likely illegals.

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:28 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Mr Sweet ... may I ask... would you prefer that USA gets rid of our unfair immigration laws that discriminate against people coming here without papers and adopt Mexico's immigration laws and have Mexican people subject to these laws instead of ours... would that be an improvement in fairness to you??? You would think United Stated would learn lessons from Mexico and apply the same immigration laws that Mexico applies to USA citizens to the Mexican people who come here...
    what do you think???? That would obviously be more fair.Right?

  • Don Honda posted at 2:10 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.

    DonHonda Posts: 5

    Illegal Aliens pay very little in "taxes." They work an under-the-counter, Black Market, cash economy. They get a $1000 per child tax credit if they figure its' worth it to declare enough income using an ITIN with the IRS. The amount they "pay" does not offset the Billions they take from social services, education services, safety personnel, and contribute to the denigration of our quality of life. For backup information see:


    It's not about political parties, or the military, or PCness. It's about the Rule of Law, about disrespecting US Citizens and Legal Immigrants; the people who thought that by going by the rules, working hard, and contributing to our society was the American Way.

    Our Immigration process works just fine. It's the enforcement of non-compliance that is the problem:


    Why should a population that disrespects our laws get a free pass to the front of the line? Why don't we have compassion and feelings for our own US children and grandchildren and Legal Immigrants who will miss out on THEIR chance for the American Dream? If Illegal Aliens don't like being a second-class person, working menial jobs, waiting in line for their turn, or the "racist" and other charges, they have a choice: leave.

    Take a few minutes to educate yourself on the facts and don't believe the lies. The CA DREAM Act has been one lie after another.

    Then join StopAB131.com to sign the repeal petition and how to help.

  • John Sweet posted at 1:12 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.

    CombatVeteranBoots Posts: 1

    I support the dream act, and whole heartedly. I've seen people who preach about being a "patriot" and harbor a blind hate; a unity on a republican dubbed enemy: undocumented immigrants. The same "patriots" even deported a marines wife. and not only that- they have laws in place that split up families- like the 10 year bar. imagine that, some clown preaching about what a true american is- yet hes for deporting a combat vets wife?
    republicans want you to dehumanize a group of people. they honestly want you to believe there are 12 million terrorist; cartel; drug dealing moochers. oddly, the republicans recieve a huge lobby from big companies who exploit these people. ANOTHER fact that is ignored, is undocumented immigrants pay taxes, wich subsidized our social security. undocumented immigrants are given tax id numbers from the IRS, they are promised a better chance to "clear up" their status. this is bull. IRS and ICE dont care what one or the other is doing. furthermore; they pay property tax, and sales tax, which contributes billions to the american economy. illegal immigrants paid $11.2B in taxes last year, unlike GE, which paid zero; further more az law was developed to find a readily made inmate population for private prisons- which was exposed, cca. they make laws that will cause self deportation- but they will bar them for 10 years before they can even start to process back in.
    Ya some come under a fence- but there is a large portion that came legally did the right thing, filed the right paper work, only to face our "stellar" goverment worker ethic; ripe with bias, and flaws.people get deported just cause some judge ( who is way passed retirement) can have an extra hour at lunch. the 10 year bar causes more hiding in the shadows and avoid. I know what some of you will say " illegal is illegal" - ya well it was illegal to drink at white water fountains at one point. and the term "illegal immigrant' came from the cold war era in reguards to russian spys here illegally to spy. now, i have a little bit more sense of entitlement about america, because i served and fought for america. my injury serves as a red stamp saying " my land" - that bs warhawking sounds great, here in sheltered america, against a weaker group- i say those people should be ashamed of themselves, disgusting americans ( and i dont even like calling them americans),colin powell, and the united states military openly supported the dream act. how are you going to get on a soap box and preach for the troops for the troops- yet deport their families, and wives, and husbands? and its funny cause these anti-anything foreign have no idea how the system works, and are from the generation which recieves subsity from undocumented exploitation. its pretty disgusting, and as americans you should be ashamed. those tend to preach seem to be the same ones that avoid military service, or take a service thats less dangerous- selfish people that would do anything to save their own skin- please dont ever get into a fox hole aside me, id rather fight alone.

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:33 am on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    The Dream Act is a nightmare...

  • Don Honda posted at 3:13 pm on Mon, Dec 5, 2011.

    DonHonda Posts: 5

    I assert that I am not being paid by anyone. I post facts and truths and try to provide links that back up my observations and opinion. I try to provide the links from neutral sources, especially who, on the most part, are sympathetic to Illegal Aliens. I am an Independent voter, am retired, do not and have not worked as PR Manager, Spin Doctor or some such. Do a scratch investigation of those with differing viewpoints on this subject and see what their background is.

    Do not let their attempts to use shame, guilt, sentiment, and emotionalism cloud your judgement. Spend five minutes investigating for information, and then YOU decide.

  • Don Honda posted at 2:57 pm on Mon, Dec 5, 2011.

    DonHonda Posts: 5

    I guess supporters of AB 131 CA DREAM Act do not want you to think for yourself and know the truth. Go to that link mentioned and see how Elisa Batista does not present facts but spins every question for backup information and she comes back with rhetoric, false information, and attempts at emotional blackmail.

    AB 131 is against the CA Education Code and is therefore, Illegal:

    This just in: AB 131 will now cost $65 Million and WILL HURT Legal Californian Residents in receiving their aid, by the bi-partisan Legislative Analyst's Office:


    I've just read the Assembly floor analysis of AB 131 and the controversial segment, "The number of awards to California Residents will not diminish." is explained in clear language.


    "This bill specifically provides that the number of awards received by California residents through campus-administered programs not be diminished as a result of expanding access to these programs to include AB 540 students. While the number of institutional aid awards cannot be diminished, the bill could result in a change in the mix of recipients and a change in the amounts received by students."

    This means that the NUMBER of Awards will not diminish, but when AB 131 Illegal Alien Students get into the program, the amount of money or even not being awarded aid to Legal California Resident Students will be affected due to being based on need and not merit.

    For the first year alone:

    “It is not known how many undocumented students would be eligible for the aid. A Senate committee analysis estimated the bill’s cost at about $40 million. That includes $13 million for Cal Grants, which average about $4,500; up to $15 million in community college waivers; and $12 million in institutional aid from the University of California and California State University systems.”

    And now it will cost $65 Million and will affect financial aid for Legal Californian Residents:



    “On behalf of the California Student Aid Commission, I am requesting a correction to a quote attributed to me, Lori Nezhura, Legislative Director for the California Student Aid Commission, in the “Trying to Keep the Dream Alive” article posted on July 14, 2011 on EGPNews.com.

    It is imperative that your readers be informed that the number of High School Entitlement Cal Grants and Transfer Entitlement Cal Grants are unlimited and available to all students meeting financial need, GPA, and other eligibility criteria. Therefore, if passed, Dream Act students will be able to receive these awards if they meet the same requirements.

    Conversely, the number of Competitive Cal Grants is limited. However, the bill stipulates that Dream Act students may only receive one of these awards provided funds remain after all eligible non-AB 540 California residents are awarded.”

    Most of AB 131 assigns free State aid based on Need. CA Community College does not require a minimum GPA (fee-tuition waivers and EOPS), while the rest only requires a 2.0-2.6 GPA. So, this is not the “Best and the Brightest” of Illegal Alien Students. This is clearly Economic Discrimination against US Citizens, Legal Californian Residents, and Legal Immigrants who have seen their tuition rates rise dramatically while not being eligible or have seen their financial aid reduced. It is this discriminated population who ARE our FUTURE. Their only option is to take on crippling Loan Debt.

    Also, with the heavy recruitment of out-of-state and Foreign Nationals who can pay nearly twice the in-state tuition rate to refund our defunct education system, Legal Californian Residents and Legal Immigrants will be “priced out” and “placed out” of THEIR American Dream, THEIR higher education.

    Join StopAB131.com to find out where to sign the repeal petition and how to help.

  • Joe Guzzardi posted at 11:14 am on Mon, Dec 5, 2011.

    Joe Guzzardi Posts: 5

    Yes, thanks to Don for adding the information from the California Legislative Analyst's office. The report that the Dream Act would actually cost $65 million came out just after I submitted my column to the LNS.

    It's important to note that in October, Governor Jerry Brown estimated a total cost of $14 million. And with more Cal Grants being awarded, fewer citizen children will get them and the amounts will be smaller

  • Don Honda posted at 10:25 am on Mon, Dec 5, 2011.

    DonHonda Posts: 5

    Here's the full article on how it is going to cost $65 Million and WILL HURT Legal California Residents getting financial aid:


    With the heavy recruitment of out-of-state and Foreign Nationals who can pay nearly twice the in-state tuition rate to refund our defunct education system (and who don't qualify for State aid but still "pay into the system"), Legal Californian Residents and Legal Immigrants will be “priced out” and “placed out” of THEIR American Dream, THEIR higher education.

    And here’s how AB 131 does not help anyone:

    Here’s what will happen when AB 131 Illegal Alien Students get a free CA higher education at the expense of (mostly) Middle Class Legal CA Residents and Legal Immigrants and cannot be legally employed: They go back to their “home country”, even though “USA is the only home I know.”:


    Join StopAB131.com to find out where to sign repeal petitions and how to help.


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