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Why are some trying to marginalize Constitution?

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18 comments:

  • William Dawes posted at 10:29 am on Sat, Oct 27, 2012.

    William Dawes Posts: 116

    Well Ms. Bobit let me enlighten you. There are several books that have been around since the early 90's that have a central theme that Jefferson was referring to God.

    The Declaration of Independence is based on Natural Law, yes LAW! Ms. Bobit. Why? because if our Natural Rights come from government, they will take it back. So YES the declaration has to do with LAW, Natural Law.

    Secondly, Yes there is a California Framework. NO, all teachers do not adhere to it. Some are too busy trying to bring 6th graders up from a 1st grade reading level or teaching how to be "green" or "anti-gun".

    Try looking at the TCI Textbook used by LUSD. What a piece of liberal progressive garbage. The 7th grade TCI text is a joke. Out of 38 chapters, 8 cover Islam, and only 1 chapter covers the Enlightenment Thinkers. So you definitely DON'T know what you are talking about. You learn more from being involved with the material and how it is used, and not just looking it up on your laptop at Starbuck's, sipping your coffee, and listening to the "democrat voices"...

     
  • Eric Barrow posted at 4:10 pm on Mon, Oct 22, 2012.

    Eric Barrow Posts: 1534

    if an "incessant drive for more money." is the gauge for understanding the Constitution then Romney must have much less understanding then the Consitutional Professor he's running against

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 7:24 am on Mon, Oct 22, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Short period of time? Willard arrived in 1999. The Olympics were in 2002.

    It took him an average of 4-8 years to bankrupt the companies he leveraged at Bain Capital, so, yeah, I guess you are right.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 12:03 pm on Sun, Oct 21, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    Willard's contacts among wealthy corporate entities certainly contributed, but it doesn't point to him being a corporate wizard.

    -Ms. Bobin,

    He did orchestrate the turnaround in such a short period of time. Again, those little facts getting in the way of your agenda.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:22 am on Sun, Oct 21, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to believe there IS evidence that Jefferson WAS referring to "God."

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:20 am on Sun, Oct 21, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Let's see some substantiation, Mr. Docktor.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:19 am on Sun, Oct 21, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Your forget, Mr. Docktor, that the reason the Salt Lake City Olympics were in trouble was because of a bribery scandal in which several Salt Lake Olympic officials and the SLC mayor were forced to resign.

    PolitiFact points to 9/11 as one of the major factors for getting both private donors and the federal government to pony up the money they had promised in order to promote the games and the US. Willard's contacts among wealthy corporate entities certainly contributed, but it doesn't point to him being a corporate wizard.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:58 am on Sun, Oct 21, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    As for "Creator," there is no evidence that Jefferson was referring to "God,"

    -Chuckle,

    For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would want to believe there is no evidence Jefferson was referring to "God"

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:50 pm on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Actually,

    This issue of Romney and his offshore accounts is just a distraction by the Obama camp. The Obama camp really doesn't want the Romney camp to expose Obama and his dealings with questionable people. He most certainly has his own offshore accounts, takes advantage of as many tax loopholes as he can, and off the record may say how proud he is of being so crooked. He's a narcissist. People like him can only go so long until they have to gloat about themselves. Good or bad. He's not unlike the once Haitian Dictator Duvalier

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:28 pm on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    The only problem is that Willard left all of the businesses in bankruptcy, took off with the cash, and stashed it in Switzerland and the Caymen Islands. I expect he and his cronies will come out smelling like roses and the US will still be immersed in the cesspool of HIS excesses.

    -HMM,

    The Olympic organization is basicly a corporation. Ms. Bobin doesn't seem to be up to speed on how
    Romney turned the Olympics around from an institution deeply in debt and in trouble to an institution with a financial surplus. This is just one example of many companies Romney saved. Oh those little facts that always get in the way of Ms. Bobin's agenda.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:19 pm on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2839

    Ms. Bobin wrote:

    But that's right - according to you we need to quit blaming George Walker Bush - after all, what else could we have expected from the ne'er-do-well black sheep of the family, a failed businessman, an alcoholic and drug addict whose daddy did the best he could to lift him from the cesspool of his excesses and elevate him to President of the United States?

    -It became clear in one of Obama's responses tpo Romney he has never really blamed Bush for everything. It took him all this time. It was actually only because he wouldn't let Romney get away with talking about any similarities he had with Bush.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 2:05 pm on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Wow - I guess we can't all be so lucky as to have attended a prestigious private boarding school as you were, Mr. Kinderman.

    This is quite an indictment of teachers. I wonder how Lodi teachers would react to your comments?

    And I believe that your last comments are just a matter of opinion. The same could be said for our previous president. But that's right - according to you we need to quit blaming George Walker Bush - after all, what else could we have expected from the ne'er-do-well black sheep of the family, a failed businessman, an alcoholic and drug addict whose daddy did the best he could to lift him from the cesspool of his excesses and elevate him to President of the United States?

    Sadly, in return, George Walker Bush dumped the entire country into the cesspool he had so successfully exited and then proceeded underground - never to be heard from again.

    But now we may have a chance if Willard Mitt Romney, a "master financial speculator," is elected. The only problem is that Willard left all of the businesses in bankruptcy, took off with the cash, and stashed it in Switzerland and the Caymen Islands. I expect he and his cronies will come out smelling like roses and the US will still be immersed in the cesspool of HIS excesses.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 12:19 pm on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    A true test of whether or not these subjects are being taught is to ask young adults about them. I don't believe for one second that they're learning. If they were, there wouldn’t be this incessant drive for more money. No, most public school teachers are more concerned with getting more rather than giving to their students. It’s disgraceful.

    But it's not all their fault - as parents, it's up to us to be the first line of education; not handing it all off to largely left-wing instructors with little devotion to their chosen vocation knowing full-well that they'd never get rich as teachers; that it is a calling more than just a job.

    As for any man with such Constitutional education credentials and holding such a high office would be expected to put that education into practice - not attempt to evade his Constitutional responsibilities when it was by sacred oath he promised “…to the best of [his] Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:26 am on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Doubt that the US Constitution is "really taught?" I guess it must be that majority of "liberal/progressive" teachers who are flagrantly tossing out the curriculum and most likely teaching Marxism instead.

    For a person who believes that a man who "taught" Constitutional law at an institution of higher learning actually knows nothing about the Constitution, I can very well believe that one might have this "doubt."

    Just a portion of the framework:

    GRADE 12:

    Principles of American Democracy and Economics
    "Students in grade twelve pursue a deeper understanding of the institutions of American government. They compare systems of government in the world today and analyze the history and changing interpretations of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the current state of the legislative, executive, and judiciary branches of government. An emphasis is placed on analyzing the relationship among federal, state, and local governments, with particular attention paid to important historical documents such as the Federalist Papers. These standards represent the culmination of civic literacy as students prepare to vote, participate in community activities, and assume the responsibilities of citizenship."

    Actually - GRADE 8:

    "Students understand the major events preceding the founding of the nation and relate their significance to the development of American constitutional democracy.
    1.Describe the relationship between the moral and political ideas of the Great Awakening and the development of revolutionary fervor.
    2.Analyze the philosophy of government expressed in the Declaration of Independence, with an emphasis on government as a means of securing individual rights (e.g., key phrases such as “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”).
    3.Analyze how the American Revolution affected other nations, especially France.
    4.Describe the nation’s blend of civic republicanism, classical liberal principles, and English parliamentary traditions.
    8.2 Students analyze the political principles underlying the U.S. Constitution and compare the enumerated and implied powers of the federal government.
    1. Discuss the significance of the Magna Carta, the English Bill of Rights, and the Mayflower Compact."

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:49 am on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    I doubt that the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence or any other Founding Documents are really "taught" at any level in pre-college classes - they're merely glossed over with no real attempt made to have K-12 students understand not only what they mean on the surface, but the history that surrounds them as well. This lack of understanding has been made abundantly clear on this very forum over the past few years.

    As far as the Declaration of Independence is concerned, any lack of understanding of its place in our history or law is due to precisely to what the author expressed - it's simply not taught. As far as I'm concerned its contents holds some of the greatest ideas ever expressed by modern man.

    The struggle that it took to finally get the Thirteen Colonies to agree was monumental; we’re indeed very fortunate that in spite of the conflicts that existed at that time, the signatories to the Declaration of Independence at the very least gave us one heck of a great start. Over time it’s been relegated to nothing more than a fading piece of parchment with little respect for its original purpose. Sad.

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:47 am on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    It never ceases to amaze me that there are individuals who believe, for whatever reason, that the Declaration of Independence is somehow a document that represents the law in the United States. It has become a "symbol" of human rights, but even that is a stretch considering it states "MEN are created equal." MEN did not included women, let alone black men or black women, or Native Americans - let alone any thought of "those still within the warmth and protection of a mother's womb."

    As for "Creator," there is no evidence that Jefferson was referring to "God," as in the god of Judeo-Christian tradition, but it has been forced into the curriculum thanks to forces on the right who would prefer to teach creationism. Jefferson even took it upon himself to create his own version of the New Testament in which he omitted all mentions of faith, the supernatural, and miracles with regard to the life of Jesus Christ.

    And as far as I can tell, teaching US Government and the Constitution is still a part of both 7th and 12th Grade curriculum, no matter that Joe Guzzardi tries to imply that it has been "ignored" or scrubbed from the classroom.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:13 am on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    However the most sacred of all ideas was spelled out in the Declaration of Independence where it was plainly set forth that “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

    LIFE – would the Founders agree that those still within the warmth and protection of a mother’s womb should be excluded from this first of “certain unalienable Rights?” That within such a sacred document that acknowledges our Creator 200-plus years later He’d be thrown beneath a horse-drawn carriage as the unborn would be treated with less respect and dignity than the garbage we place by the curb each week?

    How much further must we bury ourselves in the muck and mire of this so-called progressive society before we finally wake up to the reality of what we’ve done not only to ourselves, but to our Creator?

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 1:13 am on Sat, Oct 20, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2357

    My reading of the U.S. Constitution finds less vagueness and much more simplicity. For well over 200 years now it has been those trying to find ways around that set of laws and a Judiciary set on at least making certain that the Constitution is meant to be more complicated; only those with scholarly credentials are able to understand and interpret it.

    The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution proves my point easily:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    Within this one paragraph the Founder's found the way to address: 1. religion; 2. speech; 3. the press; 4. assembly; and 5. griping.

    Answers:

    1. The government cannot create its own religion; nor can the government prevent the People from worshiping as they please.

    2. The government cannot keep the People from speaking their minds.

    3. The government cannot interfere with newspapers (media).

    4. The government cannot interfere with the People from gathering to peacefully get together to complain about their government.

    5. And as a result of No. 4, the government cannot interfere with the People from writing to the leaders requesting that their complaints not only be heard, but that the government must answer.

    I have to admit that at least as far as the press is concerned things have changed considerably. Television and the Internet clearly have upped the ante insofar as how the press operates, but not the idea about keeping the government at bay.

    But the rest of this stuff is rather simple, yet religion (in my opinion) is the one that has been warped the most over time.

     

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