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J. Kurt Roberts Build the mosque — but not near Ground Zero

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Posted: Monday, August 9, 2010 6:22 am | Updated: 6:23 am, Mon Aug 9, 2010.

New York’s Landmarks Preservation Committee on Tuesday voted unanimously to deny landmark status to a building that developers want to convert into an Islamic community center and mosque just two blocks from Ground Zero of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Some, like New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, say, “We would be untrue to the best part of ourselves, and who we are as New Yorkers and Americans, if we said no to a mosque in Lower Manhattan.”

While on a strictly legalistic and politically correct basis, that statement may very well be true, the overwhelming majority of Americans, regardless of religion, should see this as an incredibly provocative and in fact offensive attempt to add insult to injury, using our own Constitution and sense of common decency against us.

The location of the proposed site is unabashedly incendiary, basically about a 3-wood from the former WTC site. I mean, you cannot tell me that there aren’t thousands of other sites that wouldn’t be much better suited to the placing of this new mosque within a few miles of Ground Zero.

The presumably well-funded group seeking to build what proponents plan to call the “Cordoba Mosque” is lead by the imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, Rauf was quoted shortly after the 9/11 attacks as saying “that the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”

Basically saying that America deserved what it got. Now am I not correct in assuming that any Muslim group that truly wished to promote healing would not pick a figurehead with such baggage? Unless of course the funding for this project was being funneled from abroad.

Now if I were a Muslim anywhere in America, I personally would be aghast at the thought of what would be, without a doubt, the main focus of the American media when issues of Islamic relevance arise, being at Ground Zero of 9/11.

If I were a Muslim, I would absolutely cringe when thinking about further inflaming American sensitivities about 9/11, again, everytime anything of Muslim relevance was being discussed.

Those opposing theist for this new mosque know that sometimes common decency  and respect for the 3,000 innocent Americans who died on 9/11, trumps the right of followers of the hijackers’ Muslim faith, to basically build a memorial to those that perpetrated the before then, unimaginable tragedy and mass murder of 9/11.

While I fully realize that freedom of speech is hardly a cornerstone of many Muslim countries’ culture, I find the lack of ANY Islamic group speaking out against this new mosque quite troubling, if not telling.

Build the Cordoba Mosque, just not at Ground Zero! I think that the overwhelming majority of right-minded Americans and  moderate Muslims would agree.

 But if this is the best nationwide type statement that the Muslim faith can come up with just nine short years after 9/11, I’m left wondering if the term “moderate Muslim” is not an oxymoron.

J. Kurt Roberts can be reached at jkurtroberts@att.net.

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Welcome to the discussion.

93 comments:

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:00 pm on Thu, Aug 19, 2010.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Rick Yorn... Posts: 28 Darrell, in case you hadn't known, i was writing in response to Brian, though i can see your confusion as it did say.......brian.......

    I am aware that the topic is WHERE it should be built but if you read my previous

    Rick... I was being sarcastic... I thought your message was so off topic that I said what I did... sorry if I confused you. Next time Ill respond in " child speak" so you can understand.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:27 am on Wed, Aug 18, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=192585


    Arab TV chief: 9/11 mosque would be 'monument' to terror
    Says world's Muslims don't want to give hijackers 'source of pride'

    The director of a Dubai-based, Arab television network writes that most of the world's Muslims couldn't care less about building a mosque near Ground Zero and that plans to do so would only create a "monument" to terrorists.

    Abd Al-Rahman Al-Rashed, director-general of Al-Arabiya TV, wrote a column in the Aug. 16, 2010, London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat arguing that President Obama was wasting his time championing construction of the proposed mosque, which Al-Rashed says the majority of world's Muslims don't want anyway.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:41 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    The peace-loving Buddhist monasteries of India were consumed by invading Muslim armies, with the result that there are no Buddhist monasteries left in India today.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:27 pm on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814


    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/obama_is_colluding_with_a_new.html

    Obama Is Colluding with a New Fascist Imperialism

    Nothing is more like the fascist Axis of the 1930s than Islamist expansionism today. Like the Hitler-Tojo-Mussolini Axis of the 1930s, Islamic fascists are fundamentally imperialistic, with an explicit order from on High to subjugate civilized people or turn them to ashes. Mohammed himself famously threatened the cultured Persian and Byzantine Emperors of his time, and in the following years, his followers knocked those empires over like devouring army ants.


    The peace-loving Buddhist monasteries of India were consumed by invading Muslim armies, with the result that there are no Buddhist monasteries left in India today. Not a single one. Only Hinduism survived the Muslim invasions, because Hindus are not pacifists. You can ask any Sikh about that; they are a huge warrior religion that arose as a buffer between Hindu India and its many Muslim invaders, who now hold Pakistan and Afghanistan. In India, the Buddhist monks just died or fled to Tibet. So much for the glorious results of peaceful resistance against Muslim armies.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:59 am on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Pakistan needs to get busy figuring out how to blame things on Israel - then the $$ will pour in...

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:58 am on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Nothing new here - just find out how much Saudi Arabia gave to Indonesian Muslims after the tsunami disaster - a meager sum of 10 million dollars was given in comparison to more than a billion by US alone. If the aid from other Western nations is counted the amount will be in tens of billions!!

    Muslims nations always look for aid from the West and always find it convenient to lynch them once the aid is in!!! Thats their duty to curse infidels per Mo/allah's orders!!!

    Ingrates and hypocrites of first order these Muslims are!!

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:51 am on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Cont.

    An update on this story, though it's not so much an update as it is more of the same. "Islamic nations snub UN plea to help flood victims," by James Bone and Zahid Hussain for the Times Online, August 17 (thanks to Sr. Soph):

    Islamic nations are shunning a United Nations appeal for the worsening Pakistan floods, amid tensions with President Zardari.
    Western countries have rallied to Pakistan's aid, with the US and Britain the leading donors in the drive to raise $US460 million in the first 90 days. Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State, is expected to attend a special meeting of the UN General Assembly on Thursday to show solidarity with Pakistan, diplomats said.

    NOT A SINGLE ISLAMIC NATION APPEARED YESTERDAY ON THE UN'S LATEST LIST OF DONORS, DESPITE EFFORTS TO REACH OUT TO THEM.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:47 am on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/08/generous-donations-stream-from-wealthy-islamic-nations-to-their-desperate-brethren-in-pakistan----no.html


    Generous donations stream from wealthy Islamic nations to their desperate brethren in Pakistan -- no, wait...

    While Gaza is lavished with attention, money, and weapons for a vastly exaggerated "crisis" that is of Hamas' engineering and staging (those poor people have to smuggle in luxury cars!), tens of millions of Muslims are suffering in Pakistan after the floods -- hungry, wet, and under the threat of outbreaks of cholera and dysentery. The response from Islamic nations in the Arab world? Beyond lackluster, while the U.S., Britain, Japan, and other non-Muslim countries bend over backwards.

    The question for the Muslim governments of the petrodollar-glutted Gulf: Are you racists, regarding the needs of your non-Arab brethren as less important, or would you just rather be waging jihad?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:43 am on Tue, Aug 17, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/suicide-bomber-kills-60-at-iraqi-recruiting-post/19596394


    Suicide Bomber Kills 60 at Iraqi Recruiting Post


    (Aug. 17) -- A suicide bomber killed 60 people lining up outside an Iraqi army recruiting post in central Baghdad today, in the country's first major attack of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan and a possible harbinger of what's to come after U.S. troops dramatically scale back operations at the end of this month.

    -Ramadan has always been plagued with non-peaceful events.

     
  • John Kacergis-Lamb posted at 3:09 pm on Mon, Aug 16, 2010.

    John Kacergis-Lamb Posts: 17

    Dear Brian and Other Posters,
    (To Brian: Today we have news of an enormous --- unforgiveable --- perversity of more than a hundred grown men participating in and getting individual ego satisfaction from stoninig a young couple to death. If I were you I would not worry about Radical Muslim theories or strategms. Of course, I am not (and cannot be) you. So, I would request that you devote your energies to presenting the verifiable facts your research uncovers.)
    Dear Lodians: I have failed in my attempts to be a positive contribution to your on-going discussions. I sought to discourage no one since no one evidenced any evil or vicious intentions detected by me. I sincerely wish you well and thank you for your attention to my attempts to make friends in your area.
    John K.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 3:43 am on Mon, Aug 16, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBjWmUPYoow&feature=fvw

    George Friedman on America's domination in the 21st Century

    -This is just one example of his accurate analysis of things

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 3:16 am on Mon, Aug 16, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    John,

    I find it discouraging that anyone would imply that Radical Christianity is somehow
    an existential threat. Of course the Radical Muslims find it encouraging that this
    type of propaganda can be advanced.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 3:07 am on Mon, Aug 16, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Hey John,

    I get much of my information from Conservative websites such as townhall.com
    And Jihadwatch.com has an abundance of links and information. Robert Spencer is an expert on Islam. Check out Stratfor.com too. You do have to join if you want full access.
    George Friedman founded the site. He is an expert on what's going on Geopolitics and Economics. He wrote a book called "The Next 100 years". He talks about his book on Youtube.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 2:54 am on Mon, Aug 16, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Hey John,

    Thanks for the encouraging words. I do hope many more will come to understand the threat of Radical Islam. Although I'm sure Kevin means well, he seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the motives of Radical Islam.

     
  • John Kacergis-Lamb posted at 6:51 pm on Sun, Aug 15, 2010.

    John Kacergis-Lamb Posts: 17

    Hey, Brian!
    Although I'm not Lamb (actually, Kacergis) I in no sense imply that you are trying any kind of a stunt. However, I'm not so confident about the news media and, hence, thought you were questioning them as to the motive for this subject at this time. So, I apologize for any sense of trivialisation you felt was being thrown your way. In the late 1930s and early 1940s the Germans spent considerable money and effort cultivating Moslems in Palestine, Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, Iran and Turkey. For example, the late dictator of Iraq Saddam Hussein once told his audience that his father looked upon Hitler as a liberator and hero. A portrait of Der Fuhrer, according to Saddam, hung in his family's living room. Von Pappen as German ambassador to Turkey was a primary funnel of propaganda and aid to the areas once known as the Ottoman Empire (although officially neutral in W.W. II, Turkey always ignored this German activity.) Anti-semitism (in fact, most Anti- anything) is learned, not inborn.
    It is often a political ploy for ambitious Moslem politicians to out-do each other in their anti-semitism. Hence another generation of children learn it. I'm now supposed to be politically correct a la America and say that there are millions of nice Moslems and some of them are my personal friends. Actually, it ain't so. In proportion as they are imbued with their attitudes and culture I, frankly, don't like them because they are in my experience of them robotic bores. If they turn out to be violent we will never change them by being understanding, friendly, or Holier-than-thou, towards them.
    If they find it impossible to live without war, then let them have war.
    Anyway, keep wading through the walids as long as you're not expecting to find Sinbad's jewel. Best regards, John (the other one).

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 12:53 pm on Sun, Aug 15, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://shoebat.com/audio/arabs.php


    The incredible report by the BBC radio 4, exposing the Muslim participation in World War two and The Grand Mufti Haj Ameen Hussieni. At the end of the report for the sake of balance, they try to discredit The Mufti as not reflecting today's Palestinian cause. The truth is that the Mufti if discredited, is, because he did not succeed in his goals. If you watch Arab TV as exposed by Memri and other clips on our web site, you can see the Mufti's antisemitism is replicated today as it was prior to the setting up of Israel. The BBC is usually very sensitive to Muslims/Islam and biased against Israel. This report is on the whole powerful and backs up what Walid has been saying that the real underlying issues that is a thorn for Israel and the West is i.e. Anti Jew and anti Christian.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 12:40 pm on Sun, Aug 15, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://shoebat.com/audio/hannity8-10.php

    Sean Hannity invites Walid to expose 911 Mosque Imam Rauf as a supporter of terror and an enemy of the USA

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 11:58 am on Sun, Aug 15, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    John Lamb wrote:

    One thing Brian Dockter said sticks with me, "Is this a publicity stunt ?". Could be that as we approach the November elections there's going to be a lot of Public Opinion Flandango headed our way.

    -I believe people from all walks of life should be concerned about Radical Islam. Now, if John Lamb considers my "Public Outcry" a publicity stunt, he doesn't share my concerns.

     
  • John Kacergis-Lamb posted at 11:43 am on Sun, Aug 15, 2010.

    John Kacergis-Lamb Posts: 17

    Thank you, Steve Schmidt --- being an old fool I was afraid that I was losing my marbles as I read this stuff. I'm reassured that you find, "... something missing," and, "confusing." (Me, too!).
    One thing Brian Dockter said sticks with me, "Is this a publicity stunt ?". Could be that as we approach the November elections there's going to be a lot of Public Opinion Flandango headed our way.
    Incidently, who gives you guys in Lodi the best service --- ATT, Verizon, Sprint, or ... ?
    When I hit the road I've got to have a good phone.
    Thanks. Stay Well, J.K. (the "-Lamb" part isn't me)

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 11:16 am on Sun, Aug 15, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin wrote:

    Have you ever considered talking with a professional about your need to find enemies everywhere you go? They might be able to help you overcome the distrust and fear you have of your fellow man.

    Nah,

    I just look at the overwhelming evidence of Christian oppression in Muslim countries. And if you could give me some examples of how Muslims are oppressed
    here that parallels this I'd be more than happy to detract some of my sentiments about Islam.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:10 am on Sun, Aug 15, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814


    Kevin wrote:

    I'm done talking with someone who lives in fear who has to make things up in order to feel superior.

    -Ya Kevin,

    Radical Islam is only as much of a threat as Radical Christianity. See, there's hope for me. I coming around to your thinking.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:57 am on Sun, Aug 15, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Ok Kevin,

    You're not an Obama supporter. Sorry for the misinterpretation. Now, will you apologize
    for misinterpreting Walid's motives?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:54 am on Sun, Aug 15, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin wrote:

    I suggest you look into the life of your prophet Walid's life, besides what he tells you is true. Just a quick read from sources other than his quickly showed he was an opportunist making up certain facts to sell his side to the gullible. Here's a little tip, never listen to a prophet who stuffs their pockets with money based on what they say.

    -Chuckle,

    And YOU couldn't resist making ignorant statements. You can run but you can't hide.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:19 pm on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Brian, Ya know, I was just sitting down to listen to your youtube prophet when I come across you lashing out again. Saying Obama is my hero??? Anyone who has been here any amount of time knows I have never supported him, am against a majority of his projects and look forward to a country NOT ran by him.

    But you just couldn't resist lashing out with another ignorant statement made in anger at a perceived enemy. Have you ever considered talking with a professional about your need to find enemies everywhere you go? They might be able to help you overcome the distrust and fear you have of your fellow man.

    I'm done talking with someone who lives in fear who has to make things up in order to feel superior.

    Anyone else have something interesting to say on this or should we just let the subject die in the recesses of Brian's paranoid imagination?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:38 pm on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin wrote:

    Here are counters you your postings
    http://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/12252/CNN:-Muslim-cleric-holds-'anti-terror-camps'.htm
    http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/267889/muslim-christian-clerics-join-hands-peace-unity

    -Well,
    It's a start. these are very isolated incidents. Now let's see if we can get Turkey to make an about face on it's intentions to further it's oppression of all Non-Muslims in it's country. I'm not too sure they consider their supposed joining of the EU more important than pandering to the Radical Muslim Clerics.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:09 pm on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin,

    Speaking of gullible.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:08 pm on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin,
    Even your hero is having second thoughts.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/


    Obama backpedals from blessing on Islamic supremacist mega-mosque at Ground Zero

    Even a relentless ideologue such as he can see which way the wind is blowing. But will this hedging be enough to convince the gullible that he has not betrayed them? Probably. "Obama supports 'the right' for ground zero mosque," by Jason Kobely for AP, August 14 (thanks to all who sent this in):

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Barack Obama says Muslims have the right to build a mosque near ground zero in New York, but he's not saying whether he thinks it's a good idea to do so.
    Obama's comment Saturday during a trip to Florida expanded on a statement he made at a White House dinner on Friday. At that event, he said Muslims have the same right to freedom of religion as everyone else in America.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:59 pm on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin:

    Where are all these Bible Scholars you claim have accused Walid of being a fraud
    and an opportunist?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:55 pm on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Correction:

    I'm sure he could make just as much money, given his great intellect, that is much lower profile.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:53 pm on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin,

    Many other Muslims are risking their lives by converting to Christianity. Just like Walid,
    Their eyes have been opened by the truth. I doubt their motives are for financial gain.
    And the money that Walid earns comes at a cost. He has a contract on his head by the Radical Muslims. But he conmtinues to preach the truth about Islam and the End Times.
    I'm sure he could make just as much money, given his great intellect, that is much lower. But, according to you, he has exploited the gullibilities of the 100's of thousands of people he has spoke to or have viewed his sermons online or on DVD.
    You are entitled to your opinion, Kevin.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 4:50 pm on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Brian, Why do you look for a fight so often? Is your fall back position one of hostility and rage? Maybe if you embraced joy and harmony you would see enemies all around you.

    Rejecting one man's interpretation of Bible prophecy doesn't mean I reject the original prophecy by any means. I suggest you look into the life of your prophet Walid's life, besides what he tells you is true. Just a quick read from sources other than his quickly showed he was an opportunist making up certain facts to sell his side to the gullible. Here's a little tip, never listen to a prophet who stuffs their pockets with money based on what they say.

    But to be fair I'll look at your youtube prophet tonight when I have sufficient time to actually listen without distractions of everything else right now.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 1:09 pm on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin,

    I suggest you listen to Walid's sermons and do some research on his past before
    you disgard what he says. One could conclude that you don't believe Bible Prophecy.
    Or perhaps you only believe certain prophecies in the Bible that suit your needs.
    I never considered you a cherry picker until now.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:37 am on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Finally as for Islam being anti-Christ (I'm assuming here as well that you mean "anti" as against and not "Anti" as in the Biblical figure).

    http://www.soundvision.com/info/christmas/10muslimbeliefs.asp

    Yes we differ on who Jesus is, but instead of focusing on what is different, focusing on the commonalities first helps build peace. Muslims and Christians both believe Jesus spoke for God. Both believe Jesus was sent by God. Both believe Jesus now resides with God. Why not take this and build mutial respect off of it rather then taking your approach of driving further wedges between our cultures.

    If you call Islam anti-Christ then you MUST believe the same of Jews. since they reject Jesus as son of God.

    If any one is interested in a side by side look http://www.religioustolerance.org/comp_isl_chr.htm

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:25 am on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Wasn't it not to long ago you were lamenting about the Mexicans taking over the country? Now it is Islam? What, are they just going to split the country down the middle?

    You say you reject the Koran as it is written, I assume since you didn't specify why you are talking about the violent passages. Have you read much of the Bible? It has as many violent passages in it as the Koran. It's Old Testiment teachings have been used to justified millions of deaths through the years.

    Here are counters you your postings
    http://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/12252/CNN:-Muslim-cleric-holds-'anti-terror-camps'.htm
    http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/267889/muslim-christian-clerics-join-hands-peace-unity

    As to Islam being the AntiChrist, how can that be? Christian groups have identified the Pope as such.
    http://www.bebaptized.org/popeantichrist.htm

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:01 am on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    I don't know, Brian, you seem much more likely to me to have been the one supporting Nazi-ism back in the day. You are the one preaching about how Islam is trying to take over and they need to be stopped before they destroy us. Much the same rhetoric Nazi's used against the Jews to justify the killing of millions of them. I, on the other hand am saying build understanding and MUTUAL tolerance for each other. NOT a Nazi trait. I have to assume that you only throw the Nazi aspect out because of lack of real argument.

    Are there violent leaders in Islam, yes. I never denied that. But look at Christian leadership and we have some violent outspoken people as well. Look at the Protestant/catholic fighting in Ireland. In out own Christian history we have tried to and have wiped out who cultures, destroyed real history and invaded Islamic countries. Should this be what Islam views us as? Many Muslims see the US in the Middle East as an attack on Islam.

    When you look for enemies you find them.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:39 am on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtquNNEO7Fw&feature=related

    Walid Shoebat- Mark of the Beast

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:33 am on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW4EDy7rxqI&feature=related

    Walid Shoebat- Who is Allah?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:30 am on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thMGCNBOWgQ&feature=related

    Islam and Satan-Walid Shoebat

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:27 am on Sat, Aug 14, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin wrote:


    Why do you think openly rejecting a group already here is the best way to prevent violence and change?

    I have never said I reject Muslims. However, I reject Islam as it is written in the Koran.
    Perhaps you should view the many sermons of Walid
    Shoebat on Islam. Read the many books by Robert Spencer and check out his cite
    Jihadwatch.com. People like you back in the 30's were also quick to defend Hitler.
    Many people who choose to follow Islam are ignorant of the fact that the whole pretense of Islam is Anti-Christ.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:21 pm on Thu, Aug 12, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    To back up my assertions that being open and tolerant of Islamic kids breeds their greater acceptance of the American way of life I look at a friend from HS. Her parents were Strict Islamic parents from Saudi Arabia. My brother and his friends befriended her older brother and she, by default hung around with me and my friends. Twenty years later her brother has committed suicide, in his note citing people with Brian's complete rejection of him attitudes, she on the other hand has had people around her who accept her. When asked she is American first and loves this country as it is.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:14 pm on Thu, Aug 12, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Brian: In referance to your 7:32 pm on Thu, Aug 12, 2010 posing.

    I think you misinterpret what I am saying in regards to the Muslim kids.The Americanization or Westernization of the kids will HELP protect the American way of life and I see it as a good thing. Kids who see America as a good thin and the offerings possible by it's lifestyle can help prevent a large portion of our society from feeling outcast. Where, if we follow your plan, the other course of action is to openly reject them, drive Islamic kids further into their fundamental roots for strength and then instead of having a whole generation of Islamic kids who love America, they see an America who hates them and are open for changing it into what they love.

    Why do you think openly rejecting a group already here is the best way to prevent violence and change?

     
  • Ricky Yorn posted at 9:20 pm on Thu, Aug 12, 2010.

    Rick Yorn Posts: 37

    Brian..."Islam is clear it has no intentions of embracing other religions or cultures."

    can you explain to me how a religion can properly prove it's willingness to embrace other religions? That just seems a bit odd. Most religions view themselves as being the soul truth so if you could clarify.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:49 pm on Thu, Aug 12, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin wrote,

    If we, as a nation, reject people because the are Islamic as you, Brian, want then they will hold tighter to their beliefs because it will be thier only defense. But open dialogue and understanding while holding to our US traditions very well get them to loosen their hold and embrace what you fear losing.

    -Wake up Kevin. You need a Reality Check. It's doesn't matter if we embrace or reject Islam. Islam is clear it has no intentions of embracing other religions or cultures.
    Only when an Imam or a Muslim Cleric makes a public announcement that they will
    begin to work with other religions and cultures for the greater good of humanity, perhaps then will the revision of the Koran be starting.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:34 pm on Thu, Aug 12, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin,

    What elements of American Culture parallels the existential threat of Radical Islam?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:32 pm on Thu, Aug 12, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin Wrote:

    Islamic kids who are being raised here are embracing the Western lifestyle of indulgence, relaxing their beliefs and embracing American culture.

    -And this is bothersome to you? I would hope your view of American culture is the saving Grace of Muslim Children. But unfortunately you seem to want them to embrace what is being taught by the Radicals in the Madrassas here and abroad.

     
  • Ricky Yorn posted at 3:25 pm on Thu, Aug 12, 2010.

    Rick Yorn Posts: 37

    Darrell, in case you hadn't known, i was writing in response to Brian, though i can see your confusion as it did say.......brian.......

    I am aware that the topic is WHERE it should be built but if you read my previous posts i am responding to Brian's posts based on his views of the religion behind the mosque.

    I'd hope that this is not a judgment of your ability to read thoroughly because from what i can see it's pretty stop and go.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:48 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    All this fear of Islam reminds me of a parable "THE PARABLE OF THE WIND AND SUN

    One day wind and sun saw a man walking and they both decided to have a
    contest to see who is stronger. The agreed that the one who can cause the
    person to take off his cloak will be declared the stronger one. So the wind
    blew and blew on that man, but instead of taking off his cloak, he draw it
    closer to him until finally wind give up. Than it was sun turn, he began
    shining his bright and warm light upon that man, and slowly as the
    brightness of the sun grow brighter, he began to unloosen his cloak and
    ultimately removed it."

    If we, as a nation, reject people because the are Islamic as you, Brian, want then they will hold tighter to their beliefs because it will be thier only defense. But open dialogue and understanding while holding to our US traditions very well get them to loosen their hold and embrace what you fear losing.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:46 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Brian, the growth of a group of people and the slow decline of another has nothing to do with the fact that the same rhetoric being used right now, in referance to Islam was used against the Jewish people as well.

    And in reality the Western lifestyle is a much bigger threat to Islam than they are to us. Islamic kids who are being raised here are embracing the Western lifestyle of indulgence, relaxing their beliefs and embracing American culture. Granted direct immigrants hold strongly to their beliefs, but their kids and every generation after is more Americanized than the previous.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:36 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://www.frumforum.com/is-the-911-mosque-a-publicity-stunt


    Is the 9/11 Mosque a Publicity Stunt?


    $100 million is not so easily raised, not even in Abu Dhabi, not in the middle of a global commercial property slump, not with the Manhattan real estate market in a shambles. Believe it or not, rich people in the Persian Gulf are not yearning to plunge into a U.S. political controversy.

    So here’s my guess about the future. The money will not be found. The mosque will not be built. I have no idea whether the el-Gamals were praying men before they met Feisal Rauf. But I bet they are praying very hard right now…


     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:21 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814


    Correction:

    Who were murdered

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:19 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Steve,

    There is a small mosque there but the whole intention is to build a huge multi-story Islamic Center. The majority of the property they need to build this center will have to
    be acquired by the local utility company. I doubt they will sell it to someone with these intentions that are insensitive to those who murdered on 911 at the hands of Radical Islamists.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:14 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin wrote:

    You say there was never intention of the Jewish people to "invade" the USA, but back in the day the rhetoric was much the same as it is now for the Islamic people. Are there some Islamics who want to turn America into another Islamic state, sure. There are also "Christians" who want to turn us into a Christian state.

    -You are aware that the Jewish Culture and religion has been shrinking for quite some time all while Islam has been growing in leaps and bounds? Pardon me fro saying so. Unless you can disprove the existential threat the expansion of Islam
    has on America and already Europe I have no choice but to conclude you are way out of touch with reality.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 7:33 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2239

    I believe I read somewhere that there is already a mosque on the site.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:53 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Rick...To sum up one religion as being evil with those that simply reference it in their own personal war for power is a bit naive.

    Rick... I think you are posting this blog in the wrong area. its not related to anything anyone has said or implied. This article is questioning where the mosque should be build.... not if it should be built. There is a conflict over the inrtentions of the people who wish to build at ground zero.... if you can not grasp the difference between that and what you are saying, then .... I suggest you study up on the issue.

     
  • Ricky Yorn posted at 4:59 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Rick Yorn Posts: 37

    so brian, are you then saying that it's constitutional for women to not be allowed in the priesthood in Catholicism? And it's constitutional for blacks to not be allowed in the priesthood in the Mormon Church.

    It appears to be that you are strongly one sided based in the "Christian" Belief. And it's a very close minded approach if i do say so myself.

    To sum up one religion as being evil with those that simply reference it in their own personal war for power is a bit naive.

    I hate saying it but even President Bush emphasized that he believed that Islam is a truly peaceful religion and that simply because there are these radicals that use it as a gas to their fire doesn't mean that everyone who practices Islam are out to rule the world.

    Islam has not and will not be the only holly war. It's been going on for years ever since the beginnings of religion.

    However i view a majority of all wars as being simply a search for power as opposed to the actual "cause" that most make it out to be. They simply use this "cause" as a scapegoat. So to then assume that all who practice such religions are also on a rampage for power is a bit absurd.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:07 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Brian Dockter posted at 1:42 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.
    Posts: 78 Darrel,
    Thank you.
    And you have thoughtful and considerate responses too. I seem to remember a Darrel
    Baumbach in bowling leage at Tokay Bowl in the early 80's. Is that you?

    Brian... I remember the Tokay Bowl, but I never did go there to bowl. Gradauated from Lodi High in the before Tokay High opened....and I remember the " Dockter" name... but my memory has faded with people I knew then.

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 2:22 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2239

    How confusing.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:04 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Steve: This morning there were 40ish posts. I think someone posting under a false name was caught and the posts removed.

    *****Brian, How far away from ground zero (NYC) would a mosque have to be to be okay with you to be built?*******

    You say there was never intention of the Jewish people to "invade" the USA, but back in the day the rhetoric was much the same as it is now for the Islamic people. Are there some Islamics who want to turn America into another Islamic state, sure. There are also "Christians" who want to turn us into a Christian state.

    You asked where in the US mosques are being banned. Within the past year I remember an article about a new mosque (I think the one on West and Armstrong) met with strong opposition from people saying they were nothing but a hate organization. Someone feel free to correct me or confirm for me. Also there is a growing movement to ban Mosques http://gawker.com/5610539/religious-right-group-no-more-mosques-in-the-united-states

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 1:50 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Steve... you are right... it is confusing. That is the intension of one of the bloggers who currently goes by Jan-Michael Vincent Brewer , who sometimes is Roberta, who at other times is Leonard. He makes it a practice of throwing verbal bombs and intentionally misleads and changes the topics... then when people respond to his blogs, the subject matter becomes confused and off base. Hope this helps...

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 1:42 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Darrel,

    Thank you.
    And you have thoughtful and considerate responses too. I seem to remember a Darrel
    Baumbach in bowling leage at Tokay Bowl in the early 80's. Is that you?

     
  • Steve Schmidt posted at 12:20 pm on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Steve Schmidt Posts: 2239

    I've been trying to follow these comments but I am confused. Is something missing?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:14 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Kevin wrote:

    So tell me, how is the Jewish invasion going?

    -It's not and it never was their intention.

    So tell me, how is the islamic invasion going?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:08 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Keving wrote:

    If we were to adopt a similar system here and ban building of religious centers because we don't like them then how are we the land of the free any more?


    -There is no intention of adopting such a system. You seem to echo the sentiments
    of the liberal media and also not addressing the need to be sensitive to the memory of those who died on 911. Can you give us an example of where we want to ban the building of a mosques here?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:35 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-ground-zero-mosque-developer-muslim-brotherhood-roots-radical-dreams/

    The Ground Zero Mosque Developer: Muslim Brotherhood Roots, Radical Dreams

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:34 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Leonard wrote:


    Baumbach, the question at hand isn't about architecture, it is whether the Constitution of the United States is going to be applied fairly and without prejudice.

    -Chuckle,

    Given how Sharia Law has a LONG track record of being applied with great prejudice,
    Leonard seems to be missing the whole point of this discussion.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:29 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Leonard,

    It is an atrocity. And I condemn it. Was it done in the name of Catholicism? No
    Is there anything in the Catholic Bible condoning these actions as does the Koran condone the actions of the Islamists? Shall I continue?

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:29 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Put simply some people just need bad guys in their world. Look at the past century in the US. Fear the Nazi's it could be your neighbor, spy on them. Nazi's are gone, oh look there are communists around every corner, fear them, they want to destroy you. Communism failed and now we have Islam. That's not even going into the racial blame game.

    Vigorous defense of the US and it's laws is needed and welcomed (by me) but not at the expense of destroying US citizens. The Western indulgent lifestyle will defeat fundamental Islamic teachings in the US simply by swaying the younger generations toward our way of doing things.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:23 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Brian...
    It’s good to see thoughtful considerate responses on your part... However, I do not think
    Leonard/Roberta/ Jan-Michael is interested in that. He knows that his remarks are intended to distract from the main points and only wants to create Chaos if possible. Truth has nothing to do with anything ... its more a sport to him from my perspective. To me, it is evident that he is too embarrassed to use his real name as he would walk in shame if people knew who was making these outlandish remarks.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:21 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Brian: In reference to your statement about building permits in Saudi Arabia or Iran. You prove the point against yourself with that statement. Those two countries are ruled by religious belief and the laws passed support those religious beliefs. If we were to adopt a similar system here and ban building of religious centers because we don't like them then how are we the land of the free any more?

    Listening to the arguments against Islam I can't help but remember back to HS when I wrote a report on the anti-Jewish sentiments in the US. Much of the same statements are being made. "They want to take over the government." "Can't trust them" "Don't build Jewish temples because it is against the 'Christian' base of the country." So tell me, how is the Jewish invasion going?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:20 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    I'd like someone to give us an example of an Islamic organization that has built a hospital that welcomes people from all walks of life and does not discriminate.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:06 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    And it may not be a stretch to say; Leonard believes these priests committed immoralities in the name of Catholicism.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:47 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    I'm sure there are those who would go as far as saying our Founding Fathers
    were so indifferent to Sharia Law that they would write the Constitution so it would specifically not be compatible with Sharia Law. Whether Leonard falls into this category
    is yet to be concluded.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:32 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Last time I checked there hasn't been any building permits granted to Christian organizations in Iran or Saudi Arabia. For the most part they are forced to practice their faith in basements or UNDISCLOSED LOCATIONS.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:24 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    Sharia Law makes it quite clear it will not bend or adapt to any other system of government. Our system of government here has gone out of it's way to accommodate
    Sharia Law. I find this courtesy quite short-sighted given there's overwhelming evidence
    that Sharia Law does not reciprocate.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:16 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    But then Leonard does make it a habit of defending the INDEFENSIBLE.
    Not that he doesn't defend the defensible. Just less frequently on these blogs.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:11 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    I'm still trying to digest the notion that Leonard thinks the immoralities committed
    by Catholic priests somehow parallels the 100's of thousands murdered in the name of Islam. And how the Koran condones wife beating and honor killings to boot.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:02 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814


    Rich wrote:

    Brian....this is more a response to your post than the topic but, which religions are compatible with democracy?

    -Except for Islam, all the other great religions of the world seem to go out of their way to be compatible with Democracy. And since most of if not all of our Founding Fathers
    were Judeo-Christian I can't think of any reason why they would write a constitution not compatible with their religious beliefs.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:36 am on Wed, Aug 11, 2010.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Jan-Michael Vincent Brewer posted at 8:09 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.
    Posts: 7 So, Baumbach, since you brought up the Pope, I wonder. After the rape of thousands and thousands of American children by Catholic


    Roberta/Jan Michael.... Thanks for making my point so clear and accurate... you are one of a kind...The topic was about the pros and cons of building a Mosque at one particular location. Its a point worth thought and consideration. People are concerned. Personally, I do not want any religious structure next to ground zero.... its unfortunate that you want to bring people down to the gutter... I will not do as you wish... sorry

     
  • posted at 8:09 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Posts:

    So, Baumbach, since you brought up the Pope, I wonder. After the rape of thousands and thousands of American children by Catholic priests, would you not also oppose any attempt to build a Catholic Church near an elementary school or playground?

    If not, could you please explain the distinction?

     
  • Ricky Yorn posted at 8:08 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Rick Yorn Posts: 37

    Brian....this is more a response to your post than the topic but, which religions are compatible with democracy?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:34 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Jan-Michael Vincent Brewer posted at 4:45 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010
    Robertaa.... Its fun watching you in action.... someone could talk about the pope and with you, somehow... will turn the topic upside down and before you know it, were talking about drug addiction or some unrelated topic. You are one of a kind.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:22 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    L AKA J-MVB:

    Are you suggesting the 61% percent of New Yorkers who are opposed to this mosque don't have a valid reason to be opposed? Your memory seems to fail you on why this mosque shouldn't be built there. Perhaps you're not sensitive
    to the friends and families who died aqt the WTC. I'm sure the vast majority of the friends and family of the Muslims who died there on 911 understand it's not a good idea to add salt to the wound and would rather see the Mosque built somewhere else.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:15 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814


    Leonard AKA Jan-Michael Vincent Brewer:


    Are you saying we aren't sensitive enough to the needs of the Muslims?
    Can you give us an example of why we should embrace Sharia and why we should not be concerned about how it isn't compatible with Democracy? You are aware that if
    the Islamists have their way there will no longer be a U.S. Constitution.
    Since you seem to be on their side as a proponent of this Mosque perhaps it is you we should be questioning about your willingness to defend the Constitution.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 3:07 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    3091: Let's be factual, the new mosque site would be NEAR not ON ground zero. About two blocks away. The building had a portion of jet fall into it and has been closed for a number of years.

    Muslims are NOT the ones trying to take God out of everything (that burden falls on some progressives out there).

    300ish Muslims died on 9/11 as well.

    My concern about this place stems from knowing people who want to "stand up for where I was born and raised and my religion. It's the same thing." will look at innocent Muslims who go to this mosque as targets for hatred.

    Personally I think a Islamic cultural center where the teachings of killing all infidels is condemned and the peaceful side of Islam is taught would be a welcome thing in America. A strong voice of tolerance and mutual understanding could PREVENT a 9/11 type attack. As long as people continue to say all Muslims are murderers and we should do what is fair to them then more violence will be in our future.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:45 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Roberta... interesting responce... nothing to do with the subject matter... but interesting

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:07 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Oh, that was from http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O48-Fenian.html

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:07 pm on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    When I see names and events cited here that I hadn't heard of before I like to look them up. So when I did that for JMVB's Catholic Fenian Brotherhood I was surprised.

    "Fenian Originally a member of a secret revolutionary society, named after the Fianna, the Irish armed force in legendary times. Founded as the Fenian Brotherhood in the USA by John O'Mahony and as the Irish Republican Brotherhood (IRB) by James Stephens in Ireland (1858), the name was later applied to supporters of Irish republicanism. Many of its early members had been actively involved in the YOUNG IRELAND movement. Its military wing was known as the IRISH REPUBLICAN ARMY (IRA). Their exploits drew attention to Irish discontent and helped to convince GLADSTONE of the urgent need to find a solution to Ireland's problems. Several Fenians became Members of Parliament at Westminster during the HOME RULE period. In the latter part of the 1860s the Fenian Brotherhood split into three sections, each in theory supporting the IRB but in practice sharply divided by personalities and policies."

    Maybe JMVB meant there should have been a ban on Irish pubs in the US?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:00 am on Tue, Aug 10, 2010.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Jan-Michael Vincent Brewer posted at 6:31 pm on Mon, Aug 9, 2010.
    Posts: 1 I am wracking my brain trying to understand ...

    Roberta,
    Thanks for the smile you gave me. I’m surprised that anyone would have to wrack their brain to understand.... Many issues are national in scope. I visited Malaysia and found that this country which was not Muslim dominated years ago, allowed Mosques to be built in large numbers. Today, the country is dominated in all aspects by Muslim activities and rules. When I was there, a girl was publically punished by being whipped...because she drank one beer in public. People are afraid to speak out in fear of reprisals. I think this is such common knowledge that people in USA may be concerned that USA may gravitate towards this kind of life. It is obvious that what happens in one state can lead to direct influence in what happens in another state. I think it wise to concern ourselves with what happens nationally. Why wrack your brain over something so obvious?

     
  • John Kindseth posted at 8:32 am on Mon, Aug 9, 2010.

    John Kindseth Posts: 242

    Fun related reading:

    http://townhall.com/columnists/DougGiles/2010/08/07/the_separation_between_muslims_and_taste

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:12 am on Mon, Aug 9, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://www.alyssaalappen.org/

    Added Clues Suggest MB ties to the Would-be Ground Zero Mosque Chief

    by Alyssa A. Lappen
    Family Security Matters | Jul. 16, 2010

    Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his wife Daisy Khan pretend they’re “moderate Muslims.” Yet another crack has appeared in their crumbling facade, however. The New York City office of their American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA), at 475 Riverside Drive, has for many years sat in the very building, on the very floor, immediately adjacent to the suite housing the New York City chapter office of the Council of American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the U.S. representative of Hamas.

    In 2007, the U.S. Department of Justice declared CAIR an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terror-funding case. In October 2008, the FBI’s Oklahoma office canceled plans to appear at a Muslim “outreach” event due to CAIR’s participation. In Jan. 2009, FBI offices nationwide were reported to have also severed ties with CAIR. In a Feb. 2009 letter to U.S. Rep. Sue Myrick (R-NC), the FBI confirmed the reports.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:09 am on Mon, Aug 9, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814


    http://www.jihadwatch.org/

    Taliban flog, murder pregnant woman for alleged adultery

    Shooting her in the head rather than stoning her to death is an innovation. Nonetheless, this is yet another Sharia Alert from Afghanistan: "Taliban execute pregnant woman," from AFP, August 9 (thanks to Kenneth):

    The Taliban publicly flogged and then executed a pregnant Afghan widow by emptying three shots into her head for alleged adultery, police say.
    Bibi Sanubar, 35, was kept in captivity for three days before she was shot dead in a public trial on Sunday by a local Taliban commander in the Qadis district of the rural western province Badghis.

    The Taliban accused Sanubar of having an "illicit affair" that left her pregnant.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:04 am on Mon, Aug 9, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-ground-zero-mosque-developer-muslim-brotherhood-roots-radical-dreams/

    The Ground Zero Mosque Developer: Muslim Brotherhood Roots, Radical Dreams

    The prospective developer of a $100 million, 13-story mosque 600 feet from Ground Zero presents himself as a Muslim moderate (1). Yet Kuwait-born Faisal Abdul Rauf also boasts of his issue from an “Egyptian family steeped in religious scholarship” (2). Indeed, Feisal Rauf’s Muslim Brotherhood provenance, radical by definition, is as authentic as it gets.

    Rauf’s father, Dr. Muhammad Abdul Rauf (1917-2004) — an Egyptian contemporary of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna — conveyed to Feisal his family’s long tradition of radicalism, which he acquired at Islam’s closest equivalent to the Vatican, Al-Azhar University. The elder Dr. Rauf studied and taught there before fleeing Egypt in 1948. That year, Feisal Abdul Rauf was born in Kuwait.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:59 am on Mon, Aug 9, 2010.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2814

    J. Kurt wrote:


    I’m left wondering if the term “moderate Muslim” is not an oxymoron.

    -Well Kurt,

    You're making a good point. There are "Moderate Muslims". However,
    according to the Koran there is no such thing as "Moderate Islam".

     

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