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Faith in Lodi and the region Gays are devoted citizens as much as straight people

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Welcome to the discussion.


  • Robert Jacobs posted at 12:16 pm on Fri, Apr 19, 2013.

    Robert Jacobs Posts: 298

    I'll just ask Ms. AmyJo Mattheis, master of divinity and former Lutheran pastor one question.

    Here is a quote from AmyJo Matteis:

    "The question of whether gay and lesbian people ought to be able to marry in the same manner and institution as heterosexuals is about one thing and one thing only: civil rights. No other argument is before us other than whether U.S. citizens will be granted equal protection under the law, as guaranteed in the 14th Amendment.

    You say, the only thing this is about is civil rights? "What about the God you serve in the bible Ms. Lutheran pastor?"

    What does the bible say in Romans 1:26-32 about homosexuals and lesbians and the act of homosexuality? Do you believe that God would approve of this, and the marrying of these people? Or did he really mean what he said about those who practice these things?

    The bible says those who practice these things (homosexuality) are already condemned!

    And the fact that you are former Lutheran pastor, makes me breathe a sigh of relief!

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 10:47 pm on Mon, Apr 15, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2325

    I have never argued that people shouldn't be permitted to love whoever they choose. In America so long as what someone does is not in violation of the law or hurts anyone else, we should be left to find our own brand of happiness. As such, I fully agree that certain laws should be changed. But securing what you've outlined above can be done without changing the definition of marriage. Or is that simply not enough; is the issue somehow deeper?

  • David Diskin posted at 10:09 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    David Diskin Posts: 178

    Jerome, I know you're familiar with Prop 8 which was overwhelmingly supported by religious organizations.

    Denying same-sex marriages strips a number of protections that would otherwise have been provided.

    For example, if Person A has a child, and Person A later marries Person B who is of the same sex, and ten years later Person A passes away, Person B has absolutely no right to the custody of the child.

    Further, Person B has no rights to the benefits we would typically provide to widows.

    Granted, some of that doesn't apply in California, but it is very much an issue for any federal employee and for any employee in many other states.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 2:26 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2325

    Ms. Mattheis writes: "Churches, temples, mosques and other religious entities can choose not to perform religious marriages for LGBT couples. What they do not get to do is deny the protections granted by the government in marriage."

    I wonder how any church, temple, mosque or other religious entity can "deny the protections granted by the government in marriage." When have they ever been able to do such a thing; or is this something that might be of concern in the near future? This is an interesting notion that I suspected would come about, although not until the issue of same-sex marriage was settled in the courts.

  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 2:24 pm on Sat, Apr 13, 2013.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2325

    The title poses an interesting idea: "Gays are devoted citizens as much as straight people." Who says they haven’t been all along?


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