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Bob Bader Going beyond skin-deep on the subject of tattoos

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23 comments:

  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:12 pm on Tue, Feb 7, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Thanks Jay, I appreciate the validation and perspective since I was approching this from an intellectual basis and not from experience. I always manage to learn something from you and Kevin.

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 9:09 am on Tue, Feb 7, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Darrell - you are correct. There are plenty of people who get tattoos because they look cool or they were "in to" certain things at the time when the tattoo was done. I had a friend who had around 10-12 jesters all over his body. Stupidest tattoos I've ever seen - yet - when he got them, it was at a point in his life that he was really into "jesters" and he ended up covering most of them up with other things. Most people really put a lot of thought about what they are putting on their bodies, and some do not. That's just the way it is......

    I have one that I regret - I knew better at the time and I violated the cardinal tattoo rule: never get the name of a SO or matching tattoos with said SO or friend. I ended up getting a matching tattoo (a small one thank god) as my best friend at the time. shortly after that, our friendship went downhill - it never fails......I won't cover it up because it's been woven into my shoulder piece (and I picked it out in the first place), but duh.....

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:26 pm on Mon, Feb 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Kevin stated...There are some that get a tattoo as a reminder of a higher ideal. Mine is a clear message of my faith.

    Exactly my point Kevin... many reasons for a tattoo... higher ideals and a clear message of faith as of the moment the tattoo is done is the message of the tattoo. However, ideals, faith, aspirations, love, hate, and whatever else is the reason... changes as time goes by. Jay says she can live with whatever change comes her way... some however, cannot and find it difficult to deal with what they were at the time of the tattoo.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:06 pm on Mon, Feb 6, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Jay, that's nice.

    Even though my wife had two tattoos before I got mine, I never really thought about getting one until my son started drawing really good. He's got a couple that I think would be awesome tattoos, but not for me. Some chains, melting clocks, complex chess board patterns and such.

    Now he is more into playing the guitar.

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 11:36 am on Mon, Feb 6, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Kevin - my first tattoo was when I was 16. Yes - underrage, I know, and my father was LIVID when he saw it - his stern words will stay with me forever, and he will probably never know that I got it to signify him - I didn't want to hurt him after he yelled at me at the time and I wouldn't tell him now. It's simple, faded, barely there in fact, but this one will always be my favorite.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 9:40 am on Mon, Feb 6, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    "A tattoo symbolizes who and what you are at the time you have it done."

    Actually a tattoo can symbolize a whole host of things. Who and what you are at a specific time is just the tip of the iceberg. There are some that get a tattoo as a reminder of a higher ideal. Mine is a clear message of my faith. When Religious displays get outlawed I will be in trouble. People with their sobriety date tattooed on are not remembering who they were but who they aspire to be. Remembering fallen friends and family is not about who or what you are at a specific time but rather capturing that relationship so you can NEVER forget them.

    i am so proud of the art I have that my son drew for me. I wish my other two could draw as well as him, I would have their art displayed on me as well. If they ever do something remarkable I will have it immortalized on my body as well.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 9:33 am on Mon, Feb 6, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    I'm with you Jay. My wife's favorite tattoo still is the one she got 20 years ago. Mine is only three years old but I still take time to look at it.

    People who will never have a tattoo will never understand why those of us with love them.

    It is kind of like riding a motorcycle, those who would never ride one can't understand why those of us that do, love it.

    I'm sure the same can be said for a whole host of activities. I don't mind people not understanding why, or even questioning why. Where I get upset is when people say you must have been drunk, stupid or a criminal to do it.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:32 am on Mon, Feb 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Jay stated...Because each one signifies events important to me and only me - I am happy to live with them for the rest of my life

    Two thumbs up Jay... just because I see things differently does not mean I am right. I have respect for how you see things.

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 8:50 am on Mon, Feb 6, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Jerome - my tattoos are for me - not anyone else. They signify important events in my life and just because they aren't readily visible to the general public doesn't mean I don't know they are there. I don't need to see them everyday to enjoy them, nor do I need to seek recognition from others on the quality, color, etc. That isn't the reason behind my choice.

    Darrell - thank you. However - I am able to change mine at any time - whether it be adding, or covering up. My father told me if I ever got a tattoo I better make sure it's something I'll be willing to live with for the rest of my life. Because each one signifies events important to me and only me - I am happy to live with them for the rest of my life :).

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:52 am on Mon, Feb 6, 2012.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I think saying someone got a tattoo while drunk is a face saving thought.

    I have always felt if a person was in their right mind, that they wouldn't contemplate having their beautiful skin permanently altered in a world where change and flexibility is valued and inevitable. A tattoo symbolizes who and what you are at the time you have it done. If you dramatically change who you are as time goes by, your tattoo is a never ending reminder of who you “WERE”. It may be good to advertise who you were, but it may not. After reading Dr Glasser's Reality Therapy, and his take on focusing on past issues, some may take permanent tattoos as a negative rather unhealthy...others may not.

    This is why I thought thinking people would never contemplate a tattoo. Can you imagine Ronald Reagan with a Democrat Donkey tattooed on a visible area while he was a proud democrat and later ran for president as a Republican... I have never gotten a tattoo and most likely never will.

    I have to admit, when I see someone with a tattoo, the first thing I think, is “ What was he/she thinking?
    ...no matter how beautiful and artistic the tattoo is.

    When Jay stated that they ( her tattoos) were well thought out, excellently designed and completed beautifully... I smiled and thought... Jay is my kind of person... she takes pride in what she does and does not care about what others think. I just find it odd that a thinking person would not allow the flexibility of allowing for future change in personality or circumstance.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:52 pm on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    For anyone who still thinks tattoos are for drunk, stupid or criminals. Or don't understand why someone would get them do some searches for tattoo images. Personally "best lions tattoos" turned up some great ones. "best Japanese tattoos" turns out some over the top tattoos but the sheet art that goes into them is impressive. Kind of like looking at some extreme custom motorcycles, Not something I would do but the vision to create it is impressive.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:42 pm on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Jerome, sure there are hacks out there calling themselves "tattoo artists". But people who are getting a meaningful tattoo look for the good ones. The guy that did my tattoo actually had a masters in art theory from one of the coastal collages. His canvas of choice is human skin. The Wild Bill's I mentioned has one national recognition for their artwork. Conversely I have been told of one or two local places that absolutely ruined the tattoo a person wanted. I researched to three months before settling on Wild Bill's. It was recommended by at least three different people I know.

    A side note, I got my tattoo in March a few years back. The next month they had a guest tattoo artist coming in who specialized in the portrait tattoo so they had up pics of his work. The art looked just like black and white pictures. If you want more proof do a google image search for portrait tattoos and look at some of the spectacular work done.

    I addressed that there were some drunk, stupid and criminals who do have tattoos. Dr. Bader seems to throw us ALL into one of these three categories as exemplified by his statement "That's not to say some of the young ink recipients weren't blitzed to the eyeballs and weren't talked into the tattoo by equally drunk buddies. Anecdotally, I could easily back up that thought by walking down the street and just asking ***whoever*** had a tat as to what they were thinking when they staggered into the tattoo parlor." Note the highlighted WHOEVER. Implying that whoever he came across with a tattoo must have been drunk to get a tat.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 4:25 pm on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2327

    Mr. Paglia, my take on Mr. Bader’s latest offering on the subject was more of a mea culpa rather than any continuation of what you and others believe to be a totally anti-tattoo stance. To the contrary, Bader goes out of his way to address your concerns (although not by name) at least trying to bring a little balance into the conversation. During the first part of this column he admits much of what you and others have stated regarding those who are not drunk, stupid or criminals who give great thought before handing over their bodies to these “artists.” I highlight the word because I’ve seen a whole lot of very bad work on people I care for very much that I find it difficult to provide such status to the workers in the field of tattooing. Naturally this is just my opinion based upon many years of observation - just as Bader has written his columns and letter with similar experiences as his basis.

    But he does reiterate that there are those who do receive their tattoos because of stupidity or other controllable impairment. My question for you then would be do you contend that no one who receives a tattoo is either stupid or drunk? If so, wouldn’t that be just a tad disingenuous on your part. So it leaves me wondering why you’re taking such a quasi-militant stance against this one man’s opinion.

    As for me I suppose I do understand why most people get tattoos, but where I lose that understanding is for folks like Jay Samone who admits to covering up her entire back. As I wrote earlier, in order for folks like her to enjoy the work they pay so much for in currency and the associated pain, they must have a pretty nice array of mirrors in their homes in order to even view them. As for others to appreciate all that went into many of these tattoos, quite a few of you would have to walk around half-naked or more (or would that be “less?”). Perhaps someone might want to address my lack of understanding in this regard without the usual negative nonsense?

    Because of this back and forth here over the past few days I myself decided to take a closer look today at my own little work of art permanently engraved upon my upper abdomen. Without the use of just one mirror it was very difficult for me to see it. Even after just six years now it’s begun to fade from nearly jet black to a lighter shade of gray; but I really don’t mind at all because of its greater significance to me than its artistic qualities. I have to admit that I didn’t think I volunteered to have it done as my tattoo specialist did the deed whilst I was paying attention to other things going on around me at the time. Rest assured that I was not drunk or stupid. I didn’t mind being taken advantage of as the price was agreeable.

    So what I think has happened here is much ado about not much at all. I will end this by pointing out the byline supplied by Bob Bader where he offers his status as a tattoo observer, e-mail address and a little request to be nice if anyone wants to continue this conversation in private. For me I’m all talked out.

    Have a great weekend.

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 1:04 pm on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Kevin: I have that urge myself. Everytime I'm in the downtown area, I want to stop by and visit, but my significant other is dead set against it. He thinks I have enough - but I guess since most of my back is covered, he's probably right :) . As far as the pain tolerance, the "tramp stamp" (hehe - it wasn't called that when I got it) - a very large butterfly - took 5 hours for the outline and color and sat through it with one ten minute smoke break for the tattoo guy. The shoulder one, however, was VERY painful. I had to take breaks every 45 minutes or so - especially when he was doing the stuff by my spine, base of my neck and the side neck muscles. That made me never want another one....but every spot is different......

    And to set the record straight - I have never been stupid, drunk or been in jail when I got my tattoos. They were well thought out, excellently designed and completed beautifully.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 12:24 pm on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    It is one thing to not appreciate someone else's tats. It is a completely different thing to say they must have been drunk, stupid or a criminal to get a tat, as Dr. Bader has implied repeatedly.

    This whole back and forth could have been avoided if Dr. Bader had taken the approach of, "I don't understand why people get a tattoo.' Instead of his more aggressive approach of "people must be drunk, stupid or done time to get a tattoo."

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 11:48 am on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2327

    To compare tattoo parlors with liquor stores seems quite appropriate considering the tenor of those who actually believe Mr. Bader has been unfairly addressing the issue of tattoos, those who get them and those who provide them. Further considering that this is an opinion-based forum, it’s really not too far of a reach to conclude that one might be at best “gently” requesting someone to shut up when stating that they “shouldn’t complain.” Again, it’s the context of the posts that is now at issue where my opinions are formulated.

    Still, I’m as amazed as Mr. Bader claims to be with the commentary in response to his now three-chapter dissertation on “Tats and Those Who Really Love Them and You Better Love Them Too.” But I suppose I’m really not surprised as in the past whenever I’ve expressed anything other than an overwhelming acceptance to some of the stuff considered “body art” on friends and family members I was greeted with a negative force field that at times hurled me to the floor (figuratively speaking, of course). Considering that these days tattoos are more often than not referred to as “art,” shouldn’t it be then a matter of opinion as to its value in the eye of the beholder? Of course the answer is no and as a result I’ve learned to simply keep my mouth shut (as was surely requested of Mr. Bader in my most humble of opinions).

    Nevertheless, we’ve at least enjoyed a couple of weeks of protracted dialogue thanks to the Lodi News-Sentinel and a few of its online subscribers. But enough is enough for me so see ya in the funny papers!

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 11:33 am on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    Wow, Jay, shoulder to shoulder? You got a higher tolerance for pain than I do.

    Though i am starting to get the urge for a new tat. It is a throw back to my youth of a poster I had. I'm kind of recreating the main image with a stronger attitude. I've pulled four different art concepts together to do it. The only thing that is holding me back, besides the money, is the first I got was to show my oldest the belief and faith i have in him as an artist. It is hard to find that same motivation a second time though the reconection with my past is a growing connection.

    You'll know when i get it done because it will become my new icon.

     
  • Jay Samone posted at 11:06 am on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Jay Samone Posts: 359

    Oh my....that was five minutes of reading I'll never get back. One would have to question if all he does is work on ex-felons since he says anyone with a tattoo "got it in prison".....yikes. Is this guy for real?

    Kevin: you wife is correct - Hard Luck has some great artists. I have one that covers from shoulder to shoulder on the upper back and base of my neck that was done by an artist at Hard Luck. He took what I asked and drew it to perfection - it looks great still. Certainly not a "prison tat"......

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 8:00 am on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Satire, Mr. Kinderman, is one thing, but the continual undercurrent of derogatory connotations contained in several of Bob Bader's columns is not appropriate at all. Dr. Hansen's attempts at satire? I no longer read his columns because they are just silly and ill-written, even for a PhD.

    I never suggested that Bader "shut-up," as you put it - your usual arrogant attempt at a put-down.

    As far as serving underage clientele, I am sure there are connections that can be made to access individuals with equipment and a rudimentary knowledge of tattooing, but I seriously doubt that a licensed shop would take the chance of having their credentials yanked in a police sting. But then again, as Bader suggested, people with tattoos are often criminals.

    An acquaintance's daughter, who is 22 years old, has gone to two shops here in Lodi and has been asked not only for a state ID, but also for her birth certificate as proof that she is of legal age. Judging from your "friend's" response - "of course there are," you might just have well asked if underage individuals could get access to drugs or alcohol - of course they can.

     
  • Jerome Kinderman posted at 7:23 am on Fri, Feb 3, 2012.

    Jerome R Kinderman Posts: 2327

    Regarding the matter of beating a dead horse, I would have thought those who take such umbrage with Mr. Bader's stance on tattoos might have chosen the higher road and simply let the matter rest. Clearly, those who choose to subject their bodies to the pain and expense of having various forms of "art" nearly permanently imprinted upon them take the practice quite seriously.

    It is my opinion that Mr. Bader was simply attempting to add a little humor to his experiences as a chiropractor as it relates to his patients (particularly the older ones with equally as old tattoos) and their ever-changing art. Nowhere do I find a complaint lodged within Bader’s satirical offerings in this regard; so to then make such a silly argument that he might just as well shut up and enjoy the largesse of his patients with tattoos without further discussion on the matter seems to be a tad out of line.

    Just as columnist Hansen quite often attempts to reach his readers through satire, it’s quite clear owing to the addition to his byline that Bader too is attempting to follow suit. In my opinion I thought he was quite successful in both columns and his one letter-to-the-editor. Obviously others believe otherwise as is their privilege. As a 55-year-old man with just one very small form of art voluntarily engraved upon my body (as described in a previous post on this very subject), I’ve never fully understood the value of covering God’s creation sometimes to the point where no skin is left un-inked or where pictures of loved ones or other things of personal value are placed upon areas where even with the assistance of multiple mirrors might fail to reveal them to their host.

    But that’s just me and my opinion. On the other hand, I’ve recently conferred with someone dear to me who has a number of tattoos. When asked if there are facilities where potential underage canvasses might find an “artist” willing to ply their trade absent parental permission, I was told, “of course there are.” Not ever knowing this person to be dishonest in the past, I have no reason to doubt that such places do exist and are located right here in our peaceful and very law-abiding hamlet. THIS is where I draw the line regarding tattoos. I would expect that the majority of us on either side of this subject would agree – or maybe not?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 10:16 am on Thu, Feb 2, 2012.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Great comments, Mr. Paglia.

    I thought Bob Bader would have wrapped it up with the opportunity he was generously given by the LNS to reply to Ms. Theilen's letter before it was even printed (as in, the LNS shared the contents and allowed him to reply before publishing it). But once given the shovel of righteousness, he continued to dig deeper.

    I'm not a big fan of tattoos and do not have any, nor do I care for the "sleeve" trend, but to make the blanket accusations that Bob Bader has made (twice - as outlined in Mr. Paglia's comments) does not display either professionalism nor even a semi-informed opinion.

    And I must say, he really shouldn't complain since he seems to have serviced many ex-prision inmates in his chiropractic business who, no doubt, paid quite well for their adjustments.

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:44 am on Thu, Feb 2, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    From the bottom qualifier: "some of his best friends have tattoos."

    Does he call them drunk, stupid or criminals when he sees them? Or does he save that judgement for the common reader?

     
  • Kevin Paglia posted at 8:42 am on Thu, Feb 2, 2012.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 1906

    "I could easily back up that thought by walking down the street and just asking whoever had a tat as to what they were thinking when they staggered into the tattoo parlor."

    I see Dr. Bader still believes you have to be drunk or stupid or both to get a tattoo.

    "I can say simply that my overly tattooed patients have told me in confidence they got a lot of their artwork done while they were in prison."

    One of our "great" psychologists (I believe it was Freud) spent all his time studying the mentally ill so when he wrote his papers of the common person he assumed we were all mentally ill. It looks like Dr. Bader has the same approach.

    Here is a suggestion: Next time you want to call everyone getting a tattoo either drunk, stupid or a criminal try going to one of the local tattoo parlors and sit in there for a while talking to the people who are getting the tattoos. Their stories might change your mind as to just why people get tattoos. Personally I would recommend Wild Bills in Sacramento. They have some great artists working there and some great people coming through. Though wife says Hard Luck in downtown Lodi is a great place too.

    Boy, article one, basically says look how prejudice and judgemental I am against tattoos the Dr. Bader follows it up with a second article say, yup, they are still stupid.

     

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