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Group threatens to display on billboards how council members vote on invocations

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Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:00 pm

Council members might soon see their names on billboards under the words "Against Jesus" and "For Jesus" depending on what the council decides Wednesday night.

The council received a letter from Chaplain Gordon James Klingenschmitt, the founder of the Colorado-based national group The Pray In Jesus Name Project, saying he will purchase billboards on Interstate 5 and Highway 99 for one year if the council approves a policy that gets rid of the prayer or forbids religious leaders from saying "Jesus."

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86 comments:

  • posted at 8:12 am on Tue, Oct 6, 2009.

    Posts:

    Don't ya just love being a part of the news all over the country?...Klingenschmitt Gets All Huffy October 2, 2009 http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/10/klingenschmitt_gets_all_huffy.php.

     
  • posted at 5:54 am on Mon, Oct 5, 2009.

    Posts:

    dyan wrote on Oct 2, 2009 8:25 PM:" Oh, those evil Christians! "Why do you think Christians are evil, Dyan?

     
  • posted at 3:25 pm on Fri, Oct 2, 2009.

    Posts:

    Oh, those evil Christians! Where is Pol Pot, Joe Stalin and Mao Tse Tung when we need them?

     
  • posted at 5:31 pm on Thu, Oct 1, 2009.

    Posts:

    OTH: ya, I thought maybe it would be like that at the cc meeting. I was thinking of attending and then decided against it for the very reasons you described. It's really unfortunate how some of these people behave.

     
  • posted at 5:29 pm on Thu, Oct 1, 2009.

    Posts:

    Geez, Galtguy, you're a nasty little man, aren't ya? lol!

     
  • posted at 1:09 pm on Thu, Oct 1, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiFreeThinker: You may be right.

     
  • posted at 9:07 am on Thu, Oct 1, 2009.

    Posts:

    If you put the council's actions ahead of their words, one is left wondering if this idiot, Klingenschmitt, actually affected last night's 5-0 vote for tyranny of the majority.

     
  • posted at 1:43 am on Thu, Oct 1, 2009.

    Posts:

    I would encourage this group to follow through on their proposal. Once they find out what it costs, they will quickly abandon the idea. You may remember the effort by the then-younger Ken Owens and his cadre to post the names of businesses in the LNS who sold "pornography" (Like "Muscle and Fitness", "Redbook", and the like). One full page ad and.... that was it ("it costs how much?"). Call their bluff. Do it! Do it!

     
  • posted at 11:45 pm on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    LEONARD, what's the matter? Truth hurt? I love the way liberals TRY to counter arguments. Lots of noise, NO content. Do liberals actually have a plan that doesn't include making themsleves and their friends rich at the expense of honest hard working Americans? Wake up you stupid "do nothings", or maybe you actually are looking forward to living in a broken down second rate nation with the government running your lives.

     
  • posted at 7:47 pm on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Hey Leonard-Clinton = ImpeachedOsama = ?What will be his legacy? 3 Trillion or do we here 5? Health care for the illegals? First President to both lead us into and out of Bankruptcy?All kidding aside, that Palin, hummm baby she's a looker. Instead of an election let's have a beauty contest. We'll put up Palin and you can put up... eh... Hillary?

     
  • posted at 7:41 pm on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Hey Leonard-How'd that Gay Marriage idea work out? Good thing you guys tried that in the most Liberal state in the country. Becuase anywhere else you may have lost. I guess it just goes to show you this country is far more liberal than we thought. What's that??!! YOU LOST? In the most Liberal State YOU LOST? Yes that's right now I remember YOU LOST. Boy for a minute there I thought this fad of Liberalism was growing. Kind of like toe fungus, left unchecked, well you know what happens.Hey so getting back to my other post for a minute... what's the plan when Osama fails? Blame Bush or just not enough time, that's why we need to re-elect Osama. Three Trillion. WOW. Could've bought a lot of Cruise Missles with that kind of money. You remember those don'tcha? They were the missles Clinton would launch after he touched the just out-of-high school girls, what was her name again? Lewinsky or something? Hey it's not like he was impeached or anything. Oh that's right he was.

     
  • posted at 7:23 pm on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Shasham boys and girls! I think Leonard is one of dem der LIBERALS. What with his hi eduamacation and all. He owns one of dem der thysorisisses for all dem fancy like words his uses in a sentence.Hey moron, NO ONE here is impressed at all. Anytime pal, name the blog. I'll beat you in any Lib/Conservative debate like a rented mule."syphilis is a conservative disease." Then I guess Clinton is a closet Conservative? Or did he wear a condom in the Oval Office?"It took a Bush (and the threat of a Palin) to get a Obama."And it took Obama to get three more TRILLION dollars into debt. I'm just wondering, how's that hopey, wishy thingy working out? So you must be excited with holding every branch (with the exception of the Judicial) of the Goverment eh? I mean hey, when things go south, kind of like they are, you've got no one to blame now right? You will stop trying to blame your parents for all your failings eventually right?

     
  • posted at 6:41 pm on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodianYou said it. Watched the late news on 2 channels some of it was ugly. People waving their arms in peoples faces, shoving their face within 4 inches of another person. I don't care which side they were on it was uncalled for. I think this will go to court and our utility bills will climb higher.

     
  • posted at 6:04 pm on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Oy vey

     
  • posted at 5:32 pm on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Just got back from the LCC meeting at Hutchins St Square. Interesting and long. They gave 4min to each and every speaker, and most of them took all of it -- In fact I left, but they're still going. Anyway, from a legal standpoint it all boils down to how we define proselytizing. If proselytizing means the mere mention Christ in a public forum then the LCC must stop with the invocation of Christ. However, if proselytizing means the attempted conversion to Christ by any one as part of a public forum, then one must 1st be able to establish intent. In other words , if it is the intent of the LCC to convert the listener of said invocation to accept Jesus Christ as God then the LCC must stop. One might say that allowing a prayer and accepting that prayer as absolute are two completely different subjects. The haters claim that "separation of church and state" gives them the right in infringe on speech; but what they fail to recognize is that the "state" must be limited so that the people -- like in Lodi -- can choose for themselves as to how they will be defined.

     
  • posted at 4:09 pm on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    hey joe, get off your knees and stop praying to the almighty beck.

     
  • posted at 3:22 pm on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    HandymanBrandon, if your going to quote the Bible, you need to study the context of the scripture you are quoting.(Sept 29, 10:39 am). When Jesus calls them "hypocrites", in ancient Greek that meant "play-actor", "reward in full" meant that they only sought the accolades of those in the room. Since there weren't closets with doors in those days, they meant storeroom, usually the only room in the house with a door. What Jesus was condemning was those who pray only in public and not in private. He was not telling us to refrain from praying in public. I got most of this from my "NIV study Bible". One can say "Grace" in a public restaurant without being a hypocrite, unless you don't also pray at home. But, however, our founding fathers put into the Constitution that there should be no religious test for those seeking office. But the 1st Amendment protects Klingenschmitts right to put up a sign. It should also protect the right of the sign company to reject his business. Mr. Klingenschmitts idealism rejects the philosophy of our founders, and our Constitution. Much like when the CCC sent out questionnaires to those running for the City Council.

     
  • posted at 10:37 am on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    JEFF, open your eyes and get your fingers out of your ears. You might be surprised at what you actually see and hear. It is the "do nothing" people in America that are allowing this country to go down the tubes. Bowing to "political correctness" until one day you have NO choices for you or your family. Give all to everyone and one day you will have nothing left to give.

     
  • posted at 6:37 am on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodian, I an not HIGH, I am just a patriotic citizen and veteran that gives a damn about America. Sitting idly by and watching liberal stooges ruin the very foundation which this country was formed makes me sick. Lazy jerks who want the government to be ther surrogate parents and give them everything make me ill also. There is a huge immigrant population who actually hate America and what it stands for, but willingly have their hand out for anything they can get. I am tired of supporting these jerks, you should be also.

     
  • posted at 4:43 am on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe: It's me... Savage... turn off the radio. Even I take a break from the rhetoric. ;-) lol!

     
  • posted at 4:41 am on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    joe, stop... watchin... glenn... beck!

     
  • posted at 4:41 am on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe wrote "But I do hear that word a lot lately out of our democratic congress and YOUR president."LodiJoe: What country do you call home?

     
  • posted at 4:39 am on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe: Are you high?

     
  • posted at 2:06 am on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    SAM, our president is doing a good job? Name ONE positive thing he has done for America. He is denegrating the very things good Americans have fought & died for. He wants HIS government to control every aspect of your life. Maybe when that happens you will wake up.

     
  • posted at 12:20 am on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    LEONARD, blah, blah,blah??? Apparently you weren't an english arts major. But I do hear that word a lot lately out of our democratic congress and YOUR president. Where do you teach?

     
  • posted at 12:15 am on Wed, Sep 30, 2009.

    Posts:

    LEONARD, I did vote and I voted for the AMERICAN born candidate, not some smooth talking idiot that won't even step up to the plate and prove where he was really born. Let's just keep on the liberal track and America will cease to exist. Will you be happy then?

     
  • posted at 5:27 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe wrote "Liberalism is a mental disease"Do you guys ever change the radio station?

     
  • posted at 5:26 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe wrote "Trying to shove legislation down YOUR throat whether or not you like it."VOTE

     
  • posted at 2:53 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    and that should be "job" not ob.

     
  • posted at 2:51 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodijoe, get over it. Our presidents are ONLY men. They are not the Messiah nor are they our saviour. I am sorry if you think they are more than "JUST" men.I think our President is doing a good ob. Is everything perfect? Heck no. My President Bush left us with 2 wars, a troubled economy, and a terrible bank bailout. Give President Obama some time, Heck I gave my President Bush 8 years.

     
  • posted at 2:46 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    "Sam, you might have shot an unknown intruder but I doubt you would have duct taped his arms, legs and mouth and then strangled him, leaving his broken body with the word "FED" scrawled on it."You are so right, Leonard. I am sorry. I did not mean to make light of that horrific tragedy. I apologize.

     
  • posted at 2:30 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe wrote on Sep 29, 2009 7:24 PM:Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....If I wanted to hear the sound of mental dysentery, I would have listened to some right wing talk radio.The virulent reaction of the radical right to Obama's election was pre-programed. There is nothing he or anyone else could have said or done to avoid it.

     
  • posted at 2:24 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    LEONARD, you just keep believing OBAMA is the great savior of America. You must be deaf, blind and oblivious to what is going on in this country. He talks a good game but hasn't scored even ONE point. You can only get by on BS for so long before people catch on that he is a moron without a clue on how to be president of anything. When his term is over, this country will be so far in debt and neutralized it will take generations to restore our wealth and pride in the world.

     
  • posted at 2:21 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    sam wrote on Sep 29, 2009 6:22 PM:" Leonard, I kid you not... I almost shot my census taker. I was in my home alone and saw a dirty, scruffy looking guy with his nose to my window looking in. No ID.Now I live in the country. This is threatening to me. I got my 9 mm Baby Eagle and met him head on.My neighbor saw him enter my property and called the sheriff. He almost dirtied himself when he saw my "smile" attached to my "baby". He will not be back.Seriously, these newly appointed "government guys" need to watch out. Sam, you might have shot an unknown intruder but I doubt you would have duct taped his arms, legs and mouth and then strangled him, leaving his broken body with the word "FED" scrawled on it.The radical right has slithered over a precipice. Hold on to that baby, you may need it sooner than you or I would wish.

     
  • posted at 1:41 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Sam, I didn`t know ACORN was in this area.

     
  • posted at 1:24 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Dogs, you are right on with your comments.

     
  • posted at 1:22 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard, I kid you not... I almost shot my census taker. I was in my home alone and saw a dirty, scruffy looking guy with his nose to my window looking in. No ID. Now I live in the country. This is threatening to me. I got my 9 mm Baby Eagle and met him head on. My neighbor saw him enter my property and called the sheriff. He almost dirtied himself when he saw my "smile" attached to my "baby". He will not be back.Seriously, these newly appointed "government guys" need to watch out.

     
  • posted at 1:21 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    ordinarycitizen, I have no problem with people going to church, just leave it home at CC meetings, and perhaps the CC should do the same, it would make for a better meeting when city business could actually get done. Rather than people throwing tantrums at an issue that will never be resolved.

     
  • posted at 12:37 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe wrote on Sep 29, 2009 5:24 PM:It took a Carter to get a Reagan.It took a Bush (and the threat of a Palin) to get a Obama.One of the few silver linings of the violent radicalization of the GOP is that it virtually assures that no one other than a unelectable whack job will be able to get the party's nomination in 2012.Maybe it will be whoever killed that census taker.Can I hear a "FOUR MORE YEARS"???

     
  • posted at 12:37 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Leonard wrote on Sep 29, 2009 5:30 PM:" A perfect example of why the separation between Church and State are so essential. "Leonard... Amen. Thank you .

     
  • posted at 12:32 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe wrote on Sep 29, 2009 5:24 PM:Liberalism is a mental disease.And to that I say (with just as much evidence and authority) that syphilis is a conservative disease.

     
  • posted at 12:31 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe wrote on Sep 29, 2009 5:24 PM:Trying to shove legislation down YOUR throat whether or not you like it.Apparently, they had not yet taught the idea of a Republic when you left school in the 4th grade.

     
  • posted at 12:30 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    A perfect example of why the separation between Church and State are so essential.

     
  • posted at 12:24 pm on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    4AStrongLodi: Not losing our freedoms? Just take a look at what the current administration is doing to the Constitution. Trying to shove legislation down YOUR throat whether or not you like it. Just keep your head in the sand and keep believing the Islamit Jihadist are our friends and someday you will wake up and wonder what the H^#@ happened. Liberalism is a mental disease. It took a Carter to get a Reagan. Obama is a moron and thanks he can re-write the Constitution to further his idiotic agenda. IF he makes it all 4 years I will guarantee you he will NOT be re-elected.

     
  • posted at 11:40 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Rhodie, Don't pretend for one second that churches don't influence their membership, from the pulpit, on matters of politics.

     
  • posted at 11:29 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    MEP wrote on Sep 29, 2009 3:47 PM:" I hear alot about Jesus praying... Who was he praying to? Himself? "Jesus always prayed to "Father".As I think about it here we are telling people they have to respect seperation of church and state but the government has laws about what the church can say about politics. If we Christians agree (at least as a majority) to not bring up God at the CC meetings, do you non-christians agree to let us talk politics from the pulpit?

     
  • posted at 11:16 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Klingenschmitt is an intolerant fraudster. Anyone who cares what he says or does is a few cards short of a full deck.I applaud the council members who publicly rebuked him and his attempt at blackmail.Joanne Mounce... you couldn't have skimmed it for 5 seconds before offering a 'no comment'?

     
  • posted at 11:06 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Have some of you forgotten why our forefathers came to this country?

     
  • posted at 10:47 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    I hear alot about Jesus praying... Who was he praying to? Himself?

     
  • posted at 10:36 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    blackmail, period, there is NO other explanation..

     
  • posted at 10:32 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Damn, sounds like the mob...

     
  • posted at 9:50 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Some folks have "Way too much time on their hands"!

     
  • posted at 9:45 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Okay, I am all for keeping prayers in the meetings because no one is forcing the people to say "in Jesus name". No one! However this particular person has pushed it too far. Just because someone votes against it does not mean they are anti-Jesus! Not everyone is at the same point in their walk with the Lord, as this Chaplain. That is no reason to persecute the people voting against it. Yes you may fight for what you believe, but there is a point that you are not acting with the spirit of God. You sir are supposed to be a leader, not a harmer, and this threat you have made against the city council is unacceptable. I am upset and realize that many who might be new in their walk look at this and see hatred from a Christian person. Do not change your minds. To those offended by this man I do apologize. Not every Christian is this way. I do still believe we should have the right to pray and say Jesus with it. It is your choice to not say it. The threat is not given in regards from the entire Christian community.

     
  • posted at 9:36 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    So, in the eyes of some of you here, you think that a person is "against Jesus" if they do not believe we should have a public prayer at a government meeting. That's just plain ridiculous.

     
  • posted at 9:35 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Freedom of religion meant that the government could not interfere or tell the church what to preach and what to believe. Freedom from religion was meant to protect the church from governmental tyranny. And the framers knew that the fabric of society could only be influenced and predicated on the Word of God as the right and just law. The Law being the Ten Commandments, etc. Anyways, yes, I do agree with you on that one point, our forefathers would be turning in their graves - with shame and sorrow.

     
  • posted at 9:31 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Rhodie v2.0 wrote "First, Lodian, posting how the city council votes on I-5 is NOT slander, slander is saying things that are false. I do however think it is distasteful and not Christ-like behavior."It is absolutely NOT Christian behavior. It's nasty and tasteless indeed. I hope the council does not cave to such bully tactics. Voting no on prayer at the cc meeting is being "against Jesus". And you know they would be twisting/spinning it their way to post such billboard. One can certainly be a devout Christian yet believe that public prayer not be a part of a city council meeting. Klingenscmitt wants to put up a billboard saying so-and-so voted "against Jesus" if that person votes no on public prayer at the city meetings. Now that is simply wrong, Rhodie. And I certainly do believe it is slanderous to put someone's name on a billboard saying they are voting "against Jesus" when, in fact, they are doing nothing of the kind.

     
  • posted at 9:31 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    To Lodian: You are right. Our forefathers must be rolling in their graves because our forefathers opened up every single political venture with prayer knowing that it would only take Divine wisdom and guidance to set our nation on a right course. Every stroke of the pen that went into creating the Declaration of Independance and our nation's law was wrestled over through prayer. And when our forefathers survived rough winters, they set aside one day as a nation to give Thanks to the Lord for his goodness and providence, thus we have Thanksgiving Day. Thanksgiving Day was meant as a day to give thanks to God for all He has done for our nation, not as a day to drink, party and watch football games all day long. Yes, you have it right. Our forefathers would be awashed in shame and grief because all that they risked and fought for would seem for naught as every last vestige of Christian rights and freedom seems to be slipping away in the guise of political correctness. Freedom from religion meant that the government could not interfere and tell the church what to do, as what has been done in England.

     
  • posted at 9:21 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    To dogs4you: Thankfully, not all Christians or church people act like a lot these bloggers do. Thankfully churches are filled with good, kind, loving people who act and think first before responding out of zeal and emotions. Klingenschmitt is wanting to do a good thing, make sure that all of our rights as Christians and Americans are not being trampled on and taken away - but sadly, some of it is not being said and done with the best or the wisest of words and choices. I do not support a billboard, and I would venture to say neither does my Pastor or Ken Owen or other good and loving Pastors that I know in our community. So, please don't just our church community based on one over zealous man named Klingenschmitt. If you came to our church and visited, I am sure you would be pleasantly surprised by what goes on and by the people you meet. Just ordinary folks loving Jesus and loving each other.

     
  • posted at 9:15 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    To davidd: What you are doing, trying to eliminate prayer from city council traditions and basically, from the fabric of our society, is the epitomy of intolerance. What Klingenschmitt wants to do is misguided and gives the Christian community a black eye, but it shouldn't be branded as intolerant. Intolerance is in your camp. To what22: Please do not judge all 'religious' people as thugs because of one person. To HandymanBrandon: "An attribute of a true Christian is: He only prays in private, never in public." This statement is so not true. There are many instances throughout the Bible where prayer was voiced out loud & in public. Jesus prayed out loud in public, read John 17. The point Jesus was trying to make to the Sadduccees and the Pharisees was to not pray and boast as if to say 'look at how great I am, I am praying.' Prayer must be sincere and not for a show. And we are to keep on asking, repeating, knocking and seeking until the answer to our prayers come.

     
  • posted at 8:30 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    It appears to me that this situation regarding "prayer" and "religion" has devolved into a case of nothing more than politics wrapped in the cloak of religion...especially the recent move made by Klingenschmitt. This individual is using Jesus for a political end...nothing more. If he wants to put a billboard up; let him. He might be surprised if...and when...his stunt backfires on him. That is providing he's able to find someone to erect said billboard. After all, billboard companies have the right to contract with whom they choose and may have certain criteria as to what is appropriate since they're private businesses.So Mr. Klingenschmitt just might be SOL.

     
  • posted at 7:52 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    First, Lodian, posting how the city council votes on I-5 is NOT slander, slander is saying things that are false. I do however think it is distasteful and not Christ-like behavior.Second, Brandon. Praying in public (as I addressed recently on another thread) is not in itself worng if the prayer is heartfelt and for God. Praying in public so others see you IS wrong and IS what the City coucil does, I think.Finally, letter like this should never work. First if they do work then the CC is afraid of people finding out how they voted which we will through the news anyway. Second IF they did change their vote based on the fear of people finding out how they voted then they are no the leaders we would want any way.I said it before that prayer shouldn't be at the CC meetings simply because current politians will use any means they can to get voted for themselves, even trying to appear religious to garner a few more votes when in secret they are the expression from Matt. 5 mentioned earlier. God is not a campaign tool.

     
  • posted at 6:28 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    From all the mud slinging and crap that I have read so far, you really want me to go to church, NO WAY. From all the praying that goes on at the CC meetings, very little if anything has been answered as the CC continues to make bad decisions, or at least not in the best interest of Lodi. The only thing to be gained is, the rest of the county, state and perhaps the country will be laughing at little `ol Lodi than can`t come to a commone sense solution. Party Hardy and Free Huey

     
  • posted at 6:02 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    There is nothing "Christian" about this billboard.Guess who's defaming the name of Christ but Klingenschmitt and his group!

     
  • posted at 5:55 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Well said, Brandon.

     
  • posted at 5:39 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    5. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. Here Jesus says when thou prayest, you must pray this way: (1) enter into thy closet.(2) shut the door.(3) pray to thy Father which is in secret.(4) use not vain repetitions. (Prayer must be in private, not in front of other people. Do not repeat things over and over again in prayer) An attribute of a true Christian is: He only prays in private, never in public.

     
  • posted at 5:19 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    davidd-Excellent post. Thanks for the linky. This Klingenschmitt characters only intent is to defame the council members. Even if they rule for a moment of silence, that does not mean that they are against jesus. There is nothing about a moment of silence that says 'you can not pray'. A moment of silence ENCOURAGES prayer!

     
  • posted at 5:16 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Hansen said. "I liken this to e-mails I receive that say if you don't vote against Wal-Mart, I will not vote for you again."This threat to slander by a national "Christian" group is in no way like voters exercising their right to vote in this country. This group is threatening slander if they don't get their way. On the other hand, if I don't like what my mayor is doing I may choose to cast my vote otherwise next time around. Voting is our right as an American. Two completely different things....voting is legal, slander is not.

     
  • posted at 5:08 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Can this national group not see that an American can be for Jesus, but against allowing prayer in a government office? Our forefathers must be rolling in their graves.

     
  • posted at 5:02 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    ..."Mayor Larry Hansen described the idea of using billboards as a "veiled threat."...Mayor Hansen: Klingenscmitt's letter to you is a clear threat! It's a threat to slander you if you don't vote the way this group desires. These people should be prosecuted for threatening the City of Lodi. Is this what this group does? They go around threatening people to accomplish their goals? These bully tactics should not be tolerated. This is exactly why we need to make sure we keep public prayer out of the city council meetings. How can this national group call themselves Christians, or Americans? Obviously they have no good reasons to share with you about keeping prayer in the cc meetings as evidenced by their willingness to fight dirty. wwjd

     
  • posted at 4:49 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Observer 9:37 AM: I agree.

     
  • posted at 4:47 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    4AStrongLodi: I agree with you. You misread my comments.

     
  • posted at 4:46 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    ..."Council members might soon see their names on billboards under the words "Against Jesus" and "For Jesus" depending on what the council decides Wednesday night."...This is disturbing. Are Christians called to bully and belittle others into agreeing with them? When did this happen? One can vote against public prayer at a government meeting and still be a devout Christian. To post their names on a billboard, in this way, is slanderous and not what Jesus would do. Who are these people?

     
  • posted at 4:39 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe, pooreastside, and Lodian,Nobody is out to get you and take away your freedoms. Turn off Rush Limbaugh and Fox and get your facts straight. The invocation is actually taking AWAY FREEDOM from people.Your flavor of belief is not the only one or the right one, despite what you may think, and the governemnt doesn't allow for special treatment for one over the other. That's what our Country was founded on and that's what freedom is.So, quit being dramatic and acting like you're a victim. The real victims of religious freedom is anyone who has to sit and listen to an invocation at a public meeting. If you want to hear an invocation, go to church!

     
  • posted at 4:37 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    I am a Christian and the threats by Klingenschmitt are appalling to me. He is not doing any favors for the Christian community.

     
  • posted at 4:36 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodidian wrote "It is also a good idea to keep the prayer generic until the entire country converts to the same religion."This is a scary thought.

     
  • posted at 4:35 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Bill: A very good message. Well said.

     
  • posted at 4:30 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    I believe a generic prayer seeking guidence from "God" prior cc meetings is a good thing. It is also a good idea to keep the prayer generic until the entire country converts to the same religion. The prayer I never want to hear prior to any public meeting---"god is great".

     
  • posted at 4:29 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    Excellent post bill1702! I feel exactly the same way!

     
  • posted at 4:25 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    This is the type of thing that turns non Christians further away from Christ. When they see Christians acting like thugs and trying force our beliefs on everybody. I am a devout Christian, and have been all my life, I attend Church every week, and am very active in the Church. Unfortunately I think is more than can be said for many of the “Christians” who are waging this fight. True believes don’t need to force their faith on people through legislation and thug tactics, we spread it by love. Everybody should ask themselves “What would Jesus tell us to do?” I don’t think it would be to put a billboard up saying that people are against him. He would tell us to stop wasting time with this unimportant stuff and actually do something good in the world. Please Christian brothers and sisters, stop wasting time, and go out and feed a homeless man lunch, or help an elderly person in need. Or keep wasting resources in fighting those who you should be saving.

     
  • posted at 4:23 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe: I would say, "Americans may lose liberties because of the extremists trying to SHOVE their agenda (religious or otherwise) down our throats. It is time for people to push back before ALL freedoms are lost."

     
  • posted at 4:06 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    What are you afraid of, Bob Johnson? This is far from blackmail. It is the public wanting to know. I wouldn't vote for you or Larry Hansen, because I already know you would like all our freedoms in your pockets.Chaplin Klingenschmitt has a right to fight for his beliefs just the same as the none Christians do. Again, I'm not religous, but this is our freedom we are talking about.

     
  • posted at 4:01 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    right on Lodi Joe. I think we should have a right to see who votes which way on this issue, for or against. I am not what you would call a religious person, but this issue burns me. Prayer always has been a part of these meetings, now we have to humor the thugs that don't want it. Yeah, lets change all our freedoms for a bunch of trouble makers.

     
  • posted at 3:59 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    davidd, I agree.

     
  • posted at 2:54 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    WHAT22. You really need to take a hard look at who is shoving what down who. I am not necessarily a devout religious person but why are the people who are demanding no prayers in City council meetings not classified as "thugs", according to your definition? Americans are losing their liberties one at a time all because of the extremist trying to SHOVE their agenda down our throats. It is time for people to push back before ALL freedoms are lost.

     
  • posted at 2:12 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    This is what intolerance leads to. Extremists are willing to go to any extent to try and push their message (and their religion) onto others.Support tolerance and visit http://www.LodiUnited.org.

     
  • posted at 2:11 am on Tue, Sep 29, 2009.

    Posts:

    thats typical religious people acting like thugs and shoving there beliefs on others

     
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