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The Growth of Islam

In Lodi and other cities in San Joaquin County, new or expanded Islamic centers and mosques are planned. That growth reflects a much broader trend: Islam, though controversial in some quarters, is flourishing in America.

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Welcome to the discussion.

137 comments:

  • William Dawes posted at 9:09 pm on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.

    William Dawes Posts: 116

    Madina Center can be rented out!! HIm can the Boy Scouts of America rent that building???

    Also the fact about the increase of the Muslim population keeps getting bigger....Is that due to conversions or the fact that they harass, rape, intimidate, persecute, murder, honor kill, and destroy anything they believe as attacking Islam as per the Jihad?

    It's a Religion of Peace..."only after a worldwide Caliphate is established"

    It's funny how the apologists really don't know the history of this religion of violence. They do NOT believe in Freedom of religion, you are only tolerated while they move to dominate. That is Islam. If you believe it is something else, then you are already one of their tools.

    Islam is not even close to compatible to a democratic-Republic.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:51 pm on Sun, Oct 30, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Exactly!... Just like I do not like working in mud, but I do it anyway at times. Doing what one prefers sometimes is not possible.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:24 am on Sun, Oct 30, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "I'm not sure how to make the dialogue positive and constructive, but I sincerely do not like negativism."

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:03 am on Sun, Oct 30, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Thank you for demonstrating why I was correct in saying you are not seeking truth...

    you take words out of context, use partial statements and twist words around to substantiate your fantasy and illusions... for example, I would never say “ "I think it a waste of time to investigate anything." by itself. You would have to quote the paragraph in which those words are illustrated to get “truth”... which you are not interested in...

    I did say I have decided to ignore you. The intent of it was to ignore your game. You on the other hand early on in your posts, stated you had decided to ignore me as you had determined that I was a troll... you then proceeded to ask me hundreds of questions. I did not think anything of it as thought and perspective changes as new variables are revealed. It is OK that you did something you stated you would not... that would be normal for you and is expected.

    What did not change in all this however, was your intent and motives in the dialogue... which has nothing to do with seeking “truth”, but in being a thug that enjoys an attempt to achieve intellectual conquest.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:40 am on Sun, Oct 30, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "Why would anyone waste their valuable time playing your inconsequential game?" You tell us Darrell. Despite these statements you continue revel in your own idiocracy...

    ? "I have decided to ignore Andrew."

    ? "I think it a waste of time to investigate anything."

    ? "I do not care what the answers to the questions are."

    ? "nothing more need be discussed from my view."

    ? "I no longer have curiousity as to the topic you presented."

    ? "sorry ... not interested..."

    and the funniest of all... ? "I'm not sure how to make the dialogue positive and constructive, but I sincerely do not like negativism."

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:56 pm on Sat, Oct 29, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew stated...I first met Darrell here on the LNS site Sept. 14th and since that day I have asked him 457 questions and received not one response...

    Hummm... I think Andrew is strolling happily along in Wonderland... I informed you at the beginning that you are not seeking truth but only wished to play games. Why would anyone waste their valuable time playing your inconsequential game? Of course I did not respond in a way you wanted. That was my intent.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:30 pm on Sat, Oct 29, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Perhaps if someone else asks Darrell, "Who did the United States and NATO back in the Balkans?" we'll actually get an answer. By the way Darrell, you never answered Brians question either. "Do you also deny the Obama Admin. and our military had to form an alliance with Al-Qaeda in order to remove Gadaffi?"


    I first met Darrell here on the LNS site Sept. 14th and since that day I have asked him 457 questions and received not one response. This man is sofa king retarded he revels in his own idiocracy.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:23 pm on Sat, Oct 29, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Thanks for the link Andrew... but you looked so uncomfortable in the picture. I am suprised that you would look for dinner in such a dark place... you must have been very hungry.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:26 am on Sat, Oct 29, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    every day, all day... http://images4.cpcache.com/product_zoom/194456884v7_480x480_Front_padToSquare-true.jpg

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:09 am on Sat, Oct 29, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew stated...Darrell, Who did the United States and NATO back in the Balkans?

    Sorry Andrew. You will have to get motivated to learn on your own. If I give you all the answers, you will continue to be lazy.

    As far as articulating something of substance, I learned in your first response to the first question I asked, that you define information as substantive only if it what is talked about reflects what you want to hear.

    I do not wish to play your game.

    When I stated I would ignore you, it was in reference to offering anything I thought you would consider of substance. Thank you for verifying that I succeeded as you said you would be impressed if I articulated anything of substance.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:08 pm on Fri, Oct 28, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    I would be impressed if you could articulate anything of substance...preferably pertaining to the topic.

    Darrell, Who did the United States and NATO back in the Balkans?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 5:55 pm on Fri, Oct 28, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Thank you for the complement Andrew. I know you must be impressed that I learn.
    You on the other hand, do not.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 4:30 pm on Fri, Oct 28, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    ‘You are a slow learner, Darrell.’

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:51 am on Fri, Oct 28, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Hummm ... I wonder what someone like Andrew thinks is the value and relationship between these quotes. What lessons can be learned?

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:55 am on Wed, Oct 26, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    “They hate our freedoms — our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other.”
    – George W. Bush, Address to a Joint Session of Congress and the American People, September 20, 2001

    “These (Taliban) gentlemen are the moral equivalents of America’s Founding Fathers.”
    — Ronald Wilson Reagan in 1985 while introducing the Mujahideen leaders to media on the White House lawn.

    The answer to the contradiction is learning to embrace the deception as truth, whenever the State says to do so, just as Winston Smith finally “learns” in 1984– when he is compelled to find that 2+2=5. His torturer, O’Brien, tells him ‘You are a slow learner, Winston.’

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:51 am on Wed, Oct 26, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Andrew,

    I don't think the war on terror is bogus. Now, there may be certain aspects of it that are bogus.

    And Darrell,

    I think you and I can agree the global community of humans all share common bonds. We'll leave it at that.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:17 am on Wed, Oct 26, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew stated...If you are sincerely "interested in facts" why do you continually refuse to educate and inform yourself of these facts? Why must Brian "articulate more details"?

    Interesting how easy it is for some to read something and misinterpret the words that are read. That is why fact is in the eye of the beholder. In my view, I did not say I was interested in facts as Andrew mistakenly assumed. I said I was interesting in Brian's conclusion, and what facts he looked at that led him to his perception. I could care less if Brian articulates more details as I think his conclusions are incomplete. I think he did not look at “all” the facts but just a partial list.
    When one is only looking at some of the facts, conclusions are meaningless or incomplete.

    As far as your assertion that I refuse to educate and inform myself, that is your illusion... not mine. I educate myself far more than Andrew. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to draw conclusions that are more sound and accurate while Andrew is simply in a fantasy. I am not willing to discuss what I know and do not know with someone of Andrew's character as that would be a waste of time. If Andrew was seeking truth... and cared about people...that would be a different story.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 1:03 am on Wed, Oct 26, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Darrell,

    If you are sincerely "interested in facts" why do you continually refuse to educate and inform yourself of these facts? Why must Brian "articulate more details"? Are you incapable of doing your own research and drawing your own conclusions? The fact is the United States has had alliances with Al-Qaeda for a very long time... Google it and read up...you might learn a few things about the realities of this whole bogus "war on terror".

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25829

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:05 pm on Tue, Oct 25, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Brian stated...So Darrell, Do you also deny the Obama Admin. and our military had to form an alliance with Al-Qaeda in order to remove Gadaffi?

    Brian... sorry... I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You used the word " also". I have not accepted or denied anything...why say also.

    In addition... as far as this alliance you are referring to... please articulate more details. I am interested in facts you may have that helped you draw the conclusion you did.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:24 am on Tue, Oct 25, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    In general, countries have had to form alliances with known enemies in order to remove more threatening enemies. Case in point our alliance with Stalin during WWII.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:20 am on Tue, Oct 25, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    So Darrell,

    Do you also deny the Obama Admin. and our military had to form an alliance with Al-Qaeda in order to remove Gadaffi?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:00 am on Tue, Oct 25, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew stated...A Darrell simply denies they exist

    Like I said... Andrew is walking hand in hand with Alice... in Wonderland.
    He can have his fantasy as it gives him peace of mind.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:44 pm on Mon, Oct 24, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Would a reasonable person not substantiate their opinion by disputing whatever facts they find to be un-true? A wise person knows the facts. A Darrell simply denies they exist.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:48 pm on Mon, Oct 24, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew stated...Darrell, A reasonable person would do their own research and then form an opinion.

    I agree... and a wise person knows that facts and data can be manipulated to support a preconceived notion.


     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:38 pm on Mon, Oct 24, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    brian.... sorry to hear what you consider to be fact. The chart is meaningless by itself.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 10:38 am on Mon, Oct 24, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Darrell,
    A reasonable person would do their own research and then form an opinion.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:09 am on Mon, Oct 24, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Follow the money!

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:08 am on Mon, Oct 24, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Darrell,

    Andrew is not incorrect in saying the chart is fact based in my mind based on what I know about these groups, politicians, and organizations. I'm sure you are aware of many investors who aren't exactly sure where all of their money is going once they buy a mutual fund, stock, etc. And the average Joe who just shops at Wal-MArt or whatever, can they be assured their money going into the cash register never makes it's way into the hands of people with evil or criminal intentions? I think not.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:49 am on Mon, Oct 24, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Andrew.... you stated it was fact... prove it

    It was a video of a guy talking who had an agenda... like you.
    People with agenda's normally use facts and suppositions that support their position and ignore others that do not. I think it is childish to assume that a you tube video made on a street corner would be taken seriously. I can understand why you think it true... but a reasonable person would be skeptical.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:10 pm on Sun, Oct 23, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Darrell, Why didn't you substantiate your opinion? What isn't factual?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:31 pm on Sun, Oct 23, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Is the chart an extrapolation or based on hard facts? Does anyone know?

    Brian... I would not think it fact at all... I am surprised you think it is convincing.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 6:26 pm on Sun, Oct 23, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Brian,

    The chart is fact based.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 10:14 am on Sun, Oct 23, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Andrew,

    The chart of the youtube video is quite convoluted and revealing. It seems convincing. Is the chart an extrapolation or based on hard facts? Does anyone know? Or is it a collection of both?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 10:05 am on Sun, Oct 23, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860


    Darrell wrote:

    K Lee ...the title of this article is " The Growth of Islam "
    It is not a surprise if the focus is on Islam.

    -Absolutely. And I would be happy to oblige K Lee and discuss the growth of Christianity or another religions if the general population
    was suspicious of the growth of these other religions in America.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:10 am on Sun, Oct 23, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    When trying to make a case for some position or idea, we frequently encounter questions which challenge the coherency or validity of that position. When we are able to adequately answer those questions, our position becomes stronger. When we cannot answer the questions, then our position is weaker. If, however, we avoid the question altogether, then our reasoning process itself is revealed as weak.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:55 pm on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Andrew stated...Darrell, As the LNS expert on Muslims perhaps you have a better explanation as to who is funding the ground zero mosque?

    Oh no... I am not an expert on anything. I simply observe what I see and give opinion.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:51 pm on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    K Lee ...the title of this article is " The Growth of Islam "
    It is not a surprise if the focus is on Islam.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 4:29 pm on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Brian Dockter wrote, "Are you suggesting we take our eye off the ball given Islamic Extremism is the primary culprit of global terrrorism?"

    Brian: I am saying that we should not take our eyes off of anyone that may pose a threat to the United States, including those born and bred right here in the United States (all religions). Your main focus is on Muslims.


     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:54 am on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Darrell, As the LNS expert on Muslims perhaps you have a better explanation as to who is funding the ground zero mosque?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:18 am on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    http://youtube/s_z0l10b5bk...

    Interesting cartoon... however, I am torn between it and Daffy Duck in deciding which has more value... if the choice was between Andrew and Daffy, Daffy wins hands down... but this video... I think I should meditate.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:13 am on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    People should wonder who has vested interest in inciting hatred...

    http://youtu.be/s_z0l10b5bk

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:48 am on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    You should agree it's rather irrelevant how many countries but how many people.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:46 am on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex wrote:

    A few countries like Iran, and all the kingdoms that claim to derive their legitimacy through Islam (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE and Oman) use Sharia Law exclusively.

    -Ok, there's your 100 million people in these countries. 70 millon just in Iran.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:43 am on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    K Lee wrote:

    You always seem to only focus on Muslims, even when the article is not about Muslims, as if no other religions are violent.

    -Are you suggesting we take our eye off the ball given Islamic Extremism is the primary culprit of global terrrorism?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:32 am on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Given a big percentage of Mosques throughout the U.S. and the world are funded by the Wahabists.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:26 am on Sat, Oct 22, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    I'm rather baffled why Alex wants to explain away the oppressive nature of Islamic Law.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:37 pm on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I stated in an earlier post...I share your view that Muslims in general are kind caring people who have much to offer. Sharia Law is scary, not the people you reference. I stayed in Malaysia which is dominated my Sharia Law. They have moral police there that monitor the Muslim people as well as non Muslims that might criticize Allah.

    Alex... you continue to talk about something that does not relate to my points. I have yet to make any comments about the court system. I am referring to people and how they live life, how sharia law and Muslims effect everyday life... Sharia Law is "GODS LAW" which does not need a court system to dominate.

    The comments you made lack credibility and understanding of the real world.

    In Malaysia, there are 5 ethnic groups. I was involved with 3 groups from which I base my comments.
    The three groups were Malay, Chinese and Indian. The Chinese and Indians were not normally Muslim.
    The Chinese and Indians who mostly followed Buddha were considered minority groups. The people from these groups were very apprehensive in publicly discussing or commenting about anything related to Muslim people. I stayed in Kuala Lumpur, which is the largest city in Malaysia. Muslim prayer was heard throughout the day and city which was publicly broadcast on loud speakers at high volume. Non Muslims had no choice but to listen.
    If someone like myself was heard criticizing Muslims, I could be reported to the moral police on bicycles and subject to arrest. I then would be taken down to headquarters where a Muslim representative would educate me as to my error in thinking. Once I admitted my mistake, I would be free to go.

    If you do do think Sharia Law and people who embrace it do not intimidate non Muslims, you are sadly mistaken. In addition, when I was there, I witnessed a Muslim girl arrested for publicly drinking a beer. She was punished and humiliated.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 6:56 pm on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Darrell stated:

    Yes... it is... and no I was not afraid. Sorry Alex, you have no clue what you are talking about

    From the US State Department Website:
    Judicial--Federal Court, Court of Appeals, high courts, sessions courts, magistrate's courts, and juvenile courts. Sharia courts hear cases on certain matters involving Muslims only.


    Darrell you are the one who has no clue what you're talking about

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:54 pm on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Alex stated...No, it's not. Sharia law plays a relatively small role in defining the laws of the country overall. It deals mainly with family issues and it only applies to Muslims.

    Yes... it is... and no I was not afraid. Sorry Alex, you have no clue what you are talking about

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 11:40 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Brian stated:
    “Sharia Law is a reality for hundreds of millions of Muslims in at least 60 countries”

    Name them. FYI in the majority of countries where Sharia Law is recognized, it applies only in family matters like divorce or inheritance (kind of like how many countries recognize Jewish family law through Beth Din.). Most Muslim countries that have Sharia Criminal Law on the books rarely apply it. A few countries like Iran, and all the kingdoms that claim to derive their legitimacy through Islam (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE and Oman) use Sharia Law exclusively. The rest of the majority Muslim countries use secular laws. Also, Sharia law can only be applied to Muslims. Non-Muslims are not subject to Sharia Law. It actually violates Sharia Law to subject non-Muslims to it.

    And I still don't see what this has to do with Muslim-Americans, the people this article was about

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 11:38 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215


    Brian stated: Because, there is plenty of documentation proving millions of Muslims condone Global Terrorism and Jihad.

    Millions, really? Where is your documentation? Bigoted websites don't count.
    Also, my point was that church leaders let this go on for decades without excommunicating or even just defrocking a single priest and that equals passive acceptance by the leaders, which by default implicates all followers. Isn't that the point you were trying to prove with “The” Grand Mufti. Many of your assertions about Islam come from what a few radicals spew and you generalize to apply them to all Muslims. As a Christian, I'm fully aware that the vast majority of Christians and priests are not pedophiles.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 11:37 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Brian stated: I challenge Alex to ask moderate Muslims if they are hesitant to criticize and see what their reply is on most occasions.

    In the US as well as other democratic countries where citizens enjoy freedom of speech I hear and read a lot of criticizim of the radicals. However, when your country is run by an autocrat who can have you locked up for anything and for any amount of time, one generally does not criticize anything openly. This is not unique to Muslim countries.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 11:36 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Darrell stated: I stayed in Malaysia which is dominated my Sharia Law

    No, it's not. Sharia law plays a relatively small role in defining the laws of the country overall. It deals mainly with family issues and it only applies to Muslims.

    Also, I have traveled to the Westbank, Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey. The only time I felt afraid was when I had to deal with IDF forces at Westbank checkpoints. In fact, my fiancée and I were caught by local patrols skinny-dipping in Lebanon. We were just told to head back to our hotel.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:06 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Sharia Law is a reality for hundreds of millions of Muslims in at least 60 countries.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:55 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Anyone doubting my assertions below should refer to worde.org or jihadwatch.com for further explanation. I challenge Alex to ask moderate Muslims if they are hesitant to criticize and see what their reply is on most occasions.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:51 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Moderate Muslims have been instilled a fear into them by the radicals to keep,their mouth shut or else. The small percentage of Muslims who are radical have a choke hold on the vast majority of moderate Muslims. This is evidenced by how little condemnation we hear from the moderates about the actions of the radicals.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:44 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex wrote:

    By the logic of many of you, who generalize Islam because of the actions of few of the billion Muslims worldwide, Christianity condones the rape of children and mainstream Catholics are pedophiles. That is just as absurd as many of your assertions (Brian, Darrell, Craig).

    -Alex,

    Can you provide us with some documentation proving millions of Christians condone the rape of children. Because, there is plenty of documentation proving millions of Muslims condone Global Terrorism and Jihad. You're really reaching in your assertion mainstream Catholics are pedophiles. Perhaps you meant mainstream Catholic priests. Even that's still a reach because the vast majority of mainstream Catholic priests are NOT pedophiles. You seem to be growing ever more desperate to explain away Radical Islam by making such ridiculous assertions. Do you even realize what you are writing?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:31 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Good points Darrell. Incidently, They are delaying Gaddafi's burial so they can investigate his body and determine how he died. This is in direct conflict with Islamic Law. This is another example of how Islamic Law is behind the times, that being it forbids autopsies.

     
  • Andrew Liebich posted at 2:00 am on Fri, Oct 21, 2011.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Turn off your TV's and think. This video is well researched and dead on. People should wonder who has vested interest in inciting hatred.

    http://youtu.be/s_z0l10b5bk

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:24 pm on Thu, Oct 20, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Alex stated...The vast majority of Muslims are incredibly moderate, peaceful and disgustingly hospitable (ever visit a Muslim's home? They will not let you leave without stuffing you full of fruit, nuts, sweets, coffee and then tea). I don't think that any of you who claim Muslims should be feared actually know a Muslim personally.
    Alex... you are making points that are not related in any way to my points. Sharia is gods law in the Muslim world. I am not talking about people but the system that sharia law controls. I share your view that Muslims in general are kind caring people who have much to offer. Sharia Law is scary, not the people you reference. I stayed in Malaysia which is dominated my Sharia Law. They have moral police there that monitor the Muslim people as well as non Muslims that might criticize Allah. I do not think you have a clue as to what I am talking about. It's why I asked if you are speaking from experience as it related to Sharia Law... Obviously you are not.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 10:45 am on Thu, Oct 20, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Another example of current Christian violence per The Washington Post (10/14/2011):

    "President Obama will send about 100 U.S. troops to Uganda and nearby countries to combat the Lord’s Resistance Army and kill or capture its leader, Joseph Kony, who has been charged with war crimes for a decades-long campaign against civilians in Central Africa."

    "The article goes on to state: The Lord’s Resistance Army has been operating in the border regions of northern Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and other Central African nations for more than two decades. Led by Kony, a former altar boy with a messiah complex, the army has been fighting to install what it says would be a Christian government in Uganda based on the Ten Commandments.

    The movement is notorious for its civilian killings and kidnappings, particularly of children. The White House estimates that roughly 385,000 people have been displaced from villages in the region as a result of those tactics."

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 9:49 am on Thu, Oct 20, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Catholic Priests have been accused of raping countless children for decades (longer than that, most likely) and church officials did nothing to keep children safe. To date, not a single priest has been excommunicated because of his actions. Church leaders have gone out of their way to cover up allegations and stifle law enforcement investigations. By the logic of many of you, who generalize Islam because of the actions of few of the billion Muslims worldwide, Christianity condones the rape of children and mainstream Catholics are pedophiles. That is just as absurd as many of your assertions (Brian, Darrell, Craig).

    The vast majority of Muslims are incredibly moderate, peaceful and disgustingly hospitable (ever visit a Muslim's home? They will not let you leave without stuffing you full of fruit, nuts, sweets, coffee and then tea). I don't think that any of you who claim Muslims should be feared actually know a Muslim personally. Muslims have been affected by this relatively new uptick in violence more so than any other group because most of the attacks are committed by Muslims extremists against Muslims. Most Muslims know the extremists use religion only as propaganda in their quest for power and they consider the extremists to be nothing more than disingenuous blasphemous thugs because the Koran says “It is unlawful for a believer to kill another believer for he shall incur the wrath of God, who will lay His curse on him and prepare for him a mighty scourge.” Muslims know that Islam is a religion of peace. Here are a few other quotes from the Koran:

    " He that kills a believer by design shall burn in Hell forever.” 4:92-93 (Most Muslims despise extremist groups because they overwhelmingly target other Muslims)

    “Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein, and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause shares in its burden” (4:85)

    “Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.”( 2:190)

    "Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who believes in GOD, and believes in the Last Day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve." (2:62)

    “ …Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)'' (17:33)

    “Whoever kills an innocent soul in the land - it is as if he had slain the whole of mankind. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved the whole of mankind.” (5:32)

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 9:05 am on Thu, Oct 20, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Brian Dockter wrote, "K Lee, It seems to me you are another one of those who want to blame the rise of Radical Islam on other religions and we should be focusing on the history of the dark periods of Christianity, Judaism, etc. and just let the existential threat of Radical Islam run it's course because their actions really aren't their own fault."

    Brian: No, that's not what I said at all.

    What I said was... We agree that religions are a cult and have been violent. Alex Kennedy provided a detailed list below (@ 5:43pm Oct 17th) of present day religious violence. I'm not saying it's right by any means... I'm just saying that we should not ignore that violence in all other religions exists. The past/present violence from all of these religions is horrific.

    You always seem to only focus on Muslims, even when the article is not about Muslims, as if no other religions are violent.


     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:03 pm on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Darrell wrote:

    Alex...can you name modern cultures where millions of people embrace the old testament and act out in its teachings to commit violence to people who insult god.

    - HOW ABOUT IT, ALEX!

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:01 pm on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    K Lee,


    Many moderate Muslims believe this is a dark period for Islam and the only way to alter it's course is to have a refirmation.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:59 pm on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    K Lee,

    It seems to me you are another one of those who want to blame the rise of Radical Islam on other religions and we should be focusing on the history of the dark periods
    of Christianity, Judaism, etc. and just let the existential threat of Radical Islam run it's course because their actions really aren't their own fault.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:43 pm on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Time and time again. Israel has told the Palestinians if they were to lay down their weapons Israel would lay down theirs. But we all know if Israel were to lay down their weapons first there would be massive bloodshed. So, Alex's OPINION Israel desires perpetual violence is fundamentally wrong.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:37 pm on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex,

    FYI. The origiinal Inhabitants of Israel were not Muslim and the Jews did not forbid other religions and cultures to exist side-by -side in harmony, unlike Muslims who don't want ANY OTHER religions to exist on Earth. Again, please spare us your ignorance. And by the way, Give us an example where Jews want a land all to themselves? Also, there are at least 60 Islamic Countries and one small little Jewish Country. Why does that bother you?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:31 pm on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Alex...can you name modern cultures where millions of people embrace the old testament and act out in its teachings to commit violence to people who insult god.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 12:30 pm on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Dockter asked: Can you name me a present day religion with a current track record of perpetual violence in order to advance it's cause other than Islam?


    Judaism does, in the Old Testament, God commands the Jewish state in the land of Israel to come into being through warfare and violent dispossession of the original inhabitants. Kinda like what they have done and continue to do to the Palestinians.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 9:45 am on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Craig Cawelti wrote, "It's only those who can't see the forest for the trees that will be caught off guard when the sword of islam comes down on their necks."

    Craig Cawelti: That's quite a statement. What do you propose? And what have you done, or are doing, since you can see the forest for the trees?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 9:31 am on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    *I'm just saying that we should not ignore that violence in all other religions exists.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 9:28 am on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Brian Dockter wrote, "K Lee, There aren't any religions without violent pasts. And I do agree with you on the cult thing, somewhat, that is. That being on the basis there are cult like elements in all religions. Now, a question for you. Can you name me a present day religion with a current track record of perpetual violence in order to advance it's cause other than Islam?"

    Brian: We agree that religions are a cult and have been violent. Alex Kennedy provided a detailed list below (@ 5:43pm Oct 17th) of present day religious violence. I'm not saying it's right by any means... I'm just saying that we should not ignore that violence in all other religions. The past/present violence from all of these religions is horrific.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:54 am on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860


    http://www.dennisprager.com/blog/g/f1ffd7a9-612f-4e62-b22e-513188e372ae


    Tuesday, October 18, 2011 | Posted by: Allen Estrin at 1:28 PM

    Dr. Hedieh Mirahmadi is President of WORDE (The World Organization for Resource Development and Education), which is a nonprofit, educational organization that aims to cultivate a better understanding of the difference between mainstream Islam and radical Ideologies. www.worde.org

    She's speaking in Southern California this week. Details coming momentary.

    UCLA
    TUESDAY,
    OCTOBER 18th, 2011
    1:00PM-2:30PM
    FACULTY CENTER SEQUOIA ROOM
    310-825-0604 or Chaldu@international.ucla.edu

    OCTOBER 18th, 2011 6:00PM-7:30PM
    UC, IRVINE - STEINHAUS HALL, ROOM 134

    Wednesday - OCTOBER 19th, 2011 11:00AM-12:30PM
    CSUN Campus- Northridge Center,

    Thursday, October 20
    USC Law School, Room 1
    12:30pm

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 7:21 am on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    You're welcome Craig. Thank you for your input. And I did learn of a site called worde.org

    The World Organization for Resource Development and Education [WORDE] is a nonprofit, educational organization whose mission is to enhance communication and understanding between Muslim and non-Muslim communities and to strengthen moderate Muslim institutions worldwide to mitigate social and political conflict.

    - I listened to an interview of the director on the Dennis Prager Show yesterday.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 6:38 am on Wed, Oct 19, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Let he whose religion is without sin cast the first stone.

    People sin, not religion

     
  • Craig Cawelti posted at 5:04 pm on Tue, Oct 18, 2011.

    Craig Cawelti Posts: 36

    I can not support or defend a "religion" or "cult of personality" that actively promotes the following:
    1. Subservience of women
    2. Intolerance of viewpoints opposed to their own
    3. Parasitism of a host countries resources
    4. Using children and women to carry out the murder of innocents
    5. Barbarism
    6. A lack of justice
    7. Racism
    8. The destruction of Israel and it's people
    9. World domination

    The last line of the article made me chuckle. The CAIR director stated that "muslims are a part of the community - just like everyone else." The overwhelming majority of the community that I live in do not promote any of the the nine items that I posted above. I can't remember ever seeing an individual muslim, mosque or muslim group ever promote a charity, civic organization or community program. They do not seek to assimilate themselves into the community but remain separated from the community. There is so much information from reliable sources which back the corroborate the list above, the main being their own holy book.

    Thank you Brian and Darrell for the links to the various articles and sites. It's only those who can't see the forest for the trees that will be caught off guard when the sword of islam comes down on their necks.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 11:20 pm on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Let he whose religion is without sin cast the first stone.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:34 pm on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Joe,

    Alex seems to think America is exempt from Islam's aggressive agenda.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:31 pm on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    So Alex,

    You don't seeem to have a problem with 10 million people who are proponents of Jihad. Why is that?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 6:28 pm on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Earth to Alex,

    The vast majority of terrorist attacks in the world are committed by Islamic Extremists.
    Most of the organizations and or people have committed acts of terror and they are isolated incidents. Please spare us your ignorance of Islamic Extremism. It really comes through loud and clear when you try to interpret these groups as equal threats with Islamic Extremists.

     
  • Robert Chapman posted at 6:24 pm on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Bob Chapman Posts: 997

    So, Mr. Kennedy, what you are really saying is that anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint is an idiot. So sad, your mind is too tiny to wander out alone.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 5:43 pm on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Dockter asked "Can you name me a present day religion with a current track record of perpetual violence in order to advance it's cause other than Islam?"

    Yes, my own religion and yours as well I presume:
    All recent
    •KKK Christian terrorist ideology
    •Army of God- bomb clinics
    •Concerned Christians-Jerusalem based terror org
    • India based National Christian Army- forces Hindus to convert at gunpoint
    • India's National Liberation Front- on the top 10 list of terrorist orgs. Forces conversions and the usual death to those who refuse
    •Northern Ireland 
    •Norway Shooter

    The vast majority of Muslims, like Christians are incredibly peaceful people. Anyone who claims otherwise is an idiot.

     
  • Joe Baxter posted at 9:15 am on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Joe Baxter Posts: 1905

    Islam grants radical Muslims a mandate. It is a mandate to change the existing society into an Islamic society. This isn't about building a few mosques for the needs of Muslim congregations, or schools, or a few cultural centers. It is to make Islam supreme, and thus dominate every aspect of society in every part of the world. This is not only the desire of fundamentalists, but, from their teaching, preaching and publications, would seem to be the desire of most Muslims all over the world. So, if you don't think the Islamics have an agressive agenda for America, you are as naive as they come.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:29 am on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Joe wrote:

    Brian seems to only view life in varying shades of white only.

    -Hmm,
    Islam is not a race. And there are people from the Caucuses who are Muslim.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:22 am on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    K Lee,

    There aren't any religions without violent pasts. And I do agree with you on the cult thing, somewhat, that is. That being on the basis there are cult like elements in all religions.
    Now, a question for you. Can you name me a present day religion with a current track record of perpetual violence in order to advance it's cause other than Islam?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 8:15 am on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "You are right K Lee... I used the wrong word... I did mean to say Fox is biased toward the right..."

    We agree that FOX is biased and not balanced. Interesting slip, Darrell.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 7:28 am on Mon, Oct 17, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    K Lee stated...It's interesting how Darrell calls FOX "balanced" and all others "biased". So very telling...

    Then I stated...You are right K Lee... I used the wrong word... I did mean to say Fox is biased toward the right...

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 11:50 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Brian: Name religions that are not a cult and that have no history of violence.

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 11:46 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell writes..."we could not use any information for CNN, ABC, MSNBC, as they are biased toward the left" and "you could never use Fox as they are balanced toward the right"

    Darrell believes that FOX is "balanced". LOL!

    If you believe that FOX is balanced, Darrell, then you'll believe just about anything!

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:31 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex,

    Can you give us some examples where Mohammed was flat out wrong and just didn't try hard enough to advance Islam as a religion?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:25 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Curious that mainstream Muslims want to distance themselves from Choudry since he comes from a long line of Imams who use a strategy very similar to Mohammed.
    He is only picking up from where the other Imams and Mohammed left off. Verrrrry curious.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:57 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex wrote:

    Also, I don't think you know "WHO THE GRAND MUFTI WAS" because if you did you would be more specific.

    -Chuckle,
    He conspired with Hitler. In other words, he was one of Hitler's main proponents of exterminating the Jews .Alex, I'm not one of your pupils you can intimidate.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:51 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860


    http://www.politicalislam.com/principles/pages/five-principles/

    3. kafirs
    Non-believers are so important that they have several names. Christians and Jews are called People of the Book or infidels. Other religious names for non-Muslims are atheist, polytheist, and pagan. But the Koran uses one word that includes all of the religious names. That name is kafir, an Arabic word.

    Kafir is usually translated as unbeliever, but that translation is wrong. Unbeliever is a neutral word. The Koran is very clear about the kafir. Indeed, the Koran defines the kafir by how it speaks of them. Kafirs are the lowest and worst form of life. Kafirs can be robbed, murdered, tortured, enslaved, crucified and more. Later in this chapter, more of the Koran’s doctrine of the kafir is given in some detail. But the key point is that a kafir is not only a non-Muslim, but also a person who falls under a different moral code from the Muslim.

    The Koran is devoted to the division between those who believe Mohammed, Muslims, and those who do not, kafirs. This grand division of the Koran means that there are two points of view of the Koran—the view of the Muslim and the view of the kafir.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:49 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    http://www.politicalislam.com/principles/pages/five-principles/


    Islam’s success comes primarily from its politics. In thirteen years as a spiritual leader, Mohammed converted 150 people to his religion. When he became a political leader and warrior, Islam exploded in growth, and Mohammed became king of Arabia in ten years.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:44 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860


    Alex wrote:

    Choudry receives little to no support from the mainstream Muslim population. I don't know what point you were trying to make bringing him up.

    -This just goes to show how little you know of the history of how Islam has expanded. The political agenda of Islam is how it has succeeded in getting people to convert to Islam. But more often than not, Islam has succeeded politically because it cloaks itself as a religion. Mohammed knew the religious aspect of Islam was not nearly convincing enough since it is quite the antethesis
    of Christianity and Judaism.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:27 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Alex stated...Islamistwatch.com? The name of the site says it all...

    Are you saying all information and data is incorrect here?

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:23 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Alex stated...Do you have an example of Sharia Law being used IN Europe by European officials?

    Actually, that question is not relevant to my point .

    I have am not attempting to say that Sharia Law is practiced by non Muslims in France. I was making a point that France is in an on going evolution that is changing their society. There is no immediate expectation or concern that Sharia law compromise French Legal System for non Muslims. However, Sharia Law is incorporated in their religion and is a complicated issue as freedom of religion and God's law may not be subject to French Law eventually.

    May I ask Alex... are you stating that there is no possibility that Muslim communities in United States, as the decades role on, will embrace Sharia Law and insist that it be respected as their religion and exempt from Amercan law? Also, have you ever lived in a country that Sharia Law was incorporated in their society? I am curious if you are speaking from experience.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 5:39 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Mr. Dockter,

    Hows the view from where your looking?

    I asked, Do you have an example of Sharia law being used IN Europe by European officials?
    Hmm,

    DOCKTER: "Not exactly. However, many European officials have been strongarmed by mullahs."

    Not exactly means NO. Thanks for confirming my point.

    As for what you got wrong:

    Choudry receives little to no support from the mainstream Muslim population. I don't know what point you were trying to make bringing him up.

     Shoebat's allegations have been refuted by his own family. Israel has no record of the bombings he participated in. The bank he claimed to bomb says it was never bombed. The jail he claims to have been held in for years has no record of him. He has built a career on lies and convinced suckers like you to give him your money. 

    Baghdad Bob, I know who he is and am again wondering what he has to do with anything. 


    I do not deny that Muslim fundamentalists are trying to assert their influence, but who isn't? There are Christian fundamentalist communities in the US where they practice polygamy, homeschool, shun people who don't belong to their community including local officials. The Norway shooter was a Christian fundamentalist and he SHOT 100 people.
    Fundamentalists are not representative of the group.

    As for Dearborn, one incident (2010) of a couple of people who were arrested for disorderly conduct (they broke the local criminal code, not Sharia law). Dozens of organizations hand out pamphlets outside the Muslim festival every year without incident, including this year.

    Side note about that, I think trying to convert people while they are celebrating their beliefs is disgustingly arrogant. I would hate it if after Christmas mass Muslims, Jews, Hindus, or Buddhists tried to convert me to what they believe is the one true religion. Bad form fellow Christians.

    Also, I don't  think you know "WHO THE GRAND MUFTI WAS" because if you did you would be more specific. Many countries do currently have and have had Grand Muftis for centuries. Again, I don't know what point you were trying to make with  "The" Grand Mufti or some random discredited person who most likely never even met the guy.

    You should really consider pulling your head out of your behind, it's bad for your neck.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 4:48 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    K Lee stated...It's interesting how Darrell calls FOX "balanced" and all others "biased". So very telling...

    You are right K Lee... I used the wrong word... I did mean to say Fox is biased toward the right...

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 3:22 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Darrell wrote, "ALex... if we used your standard, we could not use any information for CNN, ABC, MSNBC, as they are biased toward the left... and you could never use Fox as they are balanced toward the right..."

    LOL! It's interesting how Darrell calls FOX "balanced" and all others "biased". So very telling.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 3:10 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex wrote:

    Do you have an example of Sharia law being used IN Europe by European officials?

    Hmm,

    Not exactly. However, many European officials have been strongarmed by the mullahs,
    who have set up Sharia Courts in many neighborhoods in European cities, to turn the other cheek on how people are dealt with in Sharia Courts or suffer the consequences. It's bad enough the authorities no longer have control of these areas. And they understand it could even be worse if they try to get the Muslims in these areas to abide by man-made and not divine laws.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 2:59 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Here, Let me help you, Alex


    The Collected Quotations of "Baghdad Bob," Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf: The Iraqi Minister of DisInformation

    http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/baghdad_bob.htm

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 2:53 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex wrote:


    Mr. Dockter, you use an obviously Christian propaganda site to prove a point about Muslims (occidental libertas) Seriously? Every article on the site is anti-Muslim. Did you even look at the site or just click on a link that a like-minded individual sent you?

    -Chuckle:

    I can post some pro-Muslim websites that pretty much say the same thing about the reality of the spread of Islam in Europe. They are full of propaganda not unlike what Baghdad Bob tried to advance before we captured Saddam.DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO BAGHDAD BOB WAS? Have you even looked at sites like this or did you just take it as gospel from a Muslim friend there is no such thing as Militant and Radical Islam flexing it's muscles in Europe and beyond?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 2:44 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9PUDoYc8s8&feature=related

    Alex,

    Do you also think Anjem Choudary has a lot of nerve being an ardent critic of Non-Muslims?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 2:37 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex,

    Walid Shoebat is an expert on terrorism and Islam because he is a former Palestinian terrorist. His grandfather used to have visits by the Grand Mufti.
    DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO THE GRAND MUFTI WAS??? As far as Sharia Law in Dearborn, MI? Yes there are elements of it. When one can get arrested for trying to hand out the Gospel of John outside of an Islamic Festival and within a five block radius of it, there is some validity to this notion. And the almost complete takeover of Europe and beyond by the Nazi Party would have only been a temporary departure from the norm. Islam, on the other hand, may indeed be a permanent departure from the norm. So, you're quite ignorant to conclude the Nazi Party was more damaging to the cultural and religious fabric of Europe and the world.

    And Joe,

    I've heard it all before. According to your logic, we can't point out at least 1 to 3 percent of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world are Radicals. At least 10.6 million people would like to see us infidel's heads chopped off. Now,that's a major concern in my mind. Why that doesn't concern you? Frankly, that's above my pay grade.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 2:19 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Joe Boyd posted at 1:14 pm on Sun, Oct 16, ...The world Muslim population is comprised of approximately 60% of the world population at the present time and growing. You fear mongers paint the whole Muslim world as extremists with your slanted, biased and oftentimes hateful and ignorant comments day after day.

    Joe, I am not certain who you are referring to as fear mongers. As far as my part, I am hoping to generate discussion concerning Muslim communities that embrace Sharia Law and how it can effect people's lives. There are many Muslim communities that reject Sharia Law so I am not saying all Muslims are the same. I think awareness and knowledge is important and to ignore the potential problems places like Malaysia and France has experienced with Sharia is in my view irresponsible.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 12:33 pm on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    ALex... if we used your standard, we could not use any information for CNN, ABC, MSNBC, as they are biased toward the left... and you could never use Fox as they are balanced toward the right...

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 11:16 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Islamistwatch.com? The name of the site says it all. Any state department warnings telling Americans to avoid these areas? Police reports citing this supposed violence?

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 11:08 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Also Mr. Dockter, as a rule of thumb, when you compare things to Nazi takeovers, you generally lose credibility.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 11:04 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    Mr. Dockter, you use an obviously Christian propaganda site to prove a point about Muslims (occidental libertas) Seriously?   Every article on the site is anti-Muslim. Did you even look at the site or just click on a link that a like-minded individual sent you?

    Even worse, Shoebat.com! That site is run by  Walid Shoebat, an a self described "ardent critic of Islam." Even the Israeli government denies his claims. Who taught you how to research? Or do you simply forgo  objective research and find sources that feel right? 
    Does anyone have any reputable source to confirm these absurd assertions? 

    Lastly, Sharia law in Michigan? What is wrong with you?

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 10:57 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    DB stated: If SHaria is not significant and dominate in France, why would France have to "negotiate" with those who abide by Sharia Law...


    Are you taking a page from Fox News and being deliberately  misleading. The negotiations are for a French base IN Abu Dhabi. They have to negotiate with the "abiders of Sharia Law" because they want to lease land in a Muslim country (very strategic land off a waterway that is used as a passage for 40% of the regions oil).

    The fact of the matter is France will get what it wants in the end. French citizens tied to the base will not be subject to Sharia Law and if France is so offended by the thought of following local laws they can take their military personal and go home.

    Do you have an example of Sharia law being used IN Europe by European officials?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 10:51 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex Wrote:

    I could not find a single reputable source in support of DB's Glen Beck-ish contentions

    -Al-Jazeera may not always be reputable but I doubt they would misinform their readers about the good news about Islam's rise in Europe.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 10:45 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Darrell wrote:


    Alex... you cannot be serious... thats like going to China and claiming you can find no rice fields.

    -PRICELESS!!!!

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 10:42 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    One thing for sure is if any group of people will be the first to be concerned about their
    rights as a citizen being compromised, it will be the homosexual community. Given
    how homosexuals are dealt with in Islamic Countries, they may be the figurative
    canary in the coal mine here in America.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 10:35 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Darrell,

    One could conclude MOST Muslim women are smart enough to realize how oppressive Sharia law is and they should be opposed to it. Given the voice women have in America It is an uphill battle for Sharia Law here. Although we rarely here of anything from woman's rights groups here against Sharia Law, that's doesn't mean even
    Code Pink hasn't taken notice.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:29 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    Alex Kennedy posted at 1:29 am on Sun,...
    googled 'no go zones.' the results were all clearly by biased sources (Hudson Institute) or by people who plagiarized the original article (Clair Reitz). I could not find a single reputable source in support of DB's Glen Beck-ish contentions

    Alex... you cannot be serious... thats like going to China and claiming you can find no rice fields.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:26 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/

    The possibility that Muslim-only towns and urban enclaves could be created inside the U.S. seems like a fantasy to most Americans at the moment, but there is precedent in Europe. The French government actually has a website where it tabulates 751 "sensitive urban zones," which have been accurately described as "no-go zones." In these areas, which are mostly populated by Muslim immigrants, there is a high level of crime and hostility to any governing authority, including law enforcement. Police officers do not regularly patrol the areas and they are as close to being autonomous regions as possible without the erecting of an actual parallel government.

    http://www.islamist-watch.org/4404/muslim-enclaves-usa

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 10:16 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405


    Canada: Protest rises over Islamic law in Ontario

    Source:
    Toronto Star
    When Britain's Muslim community requested the right to use Islamic law to settle family disputes, the government's refusal was unequivocal.

    No, the petitioners were told: This is one nation, with one justice system for all.

    Until last fall, no Western jurisdiction allowed the 1,400-year-old body of religious law called sharia to take root inside its secular legal system.

    Then the province of Ontario quietly approved its use. Under the 1991 Arbitration Act, sharia-based marriage, divorce and family tribunals run by the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice are expected to begin later this year. The move has so horrified many Muslim women that they're vowing to stop the tribunals before they start.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:49 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    It's ironic that most of the information the apologists cast off as misinformation about Islam comes from Islamic sites. Not that there isn't misinformation on Islamic sites.
    Mainly, the misinformation on these sites is; Islam desires other religions and cultures equal co-existence with Muslims. This misinformation tends to be considered accurate information by the apologists.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:32 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Darrell,

    How Islam is transforming Europe is not unlike what the Nazis attempted to do. The U.S. was took a hardline approach Isolationism before they got into WWII. People like Joanne are a grim reminder to how far the U.S. refused to acknowledge the threat Hitler was to the world.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 9:10 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    If SHaria is not significant and dominate in France, why would France have to "negotiate" with those who abide by Sharia Law...

    On Wednesday (2010), the leading French daily, Le Monde, reported that intense negotiations between French and Abu Dhabi officials were underway to ensure that Abu Dhabi laws, essentially Islamic or Sharia laws, do not apply to French military personnel and their families stationed on the base.

    In a report titled “Abu Dhabi base: France confronts the application of Sharia law,” the paper noted that Sharia provides for the death penalty, which is banned in France and other EU countries. More generally, the report noted, Sharia law comprises a range of penalties “inconsistent with (French) republican principles”.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 9:01 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Joanne,

    Are you saying you would be open to the U.S. government allowing Sharia Courts
    to exist side-by-side with our system of government even though Sharia law is the antithesis of Democracy?

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:52 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Alex wrote:

    I believe if Islam scares you, it says more about you than it does about Islam.

    -Chuckle,

    Of course it's easy for Alex to say he is not scared because I doubt would ever
    believe those Muslims who have fled Islamic countries to come to America would ever consider setting up Sharia courts in their neighborhoods in the greater Lodi area.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:36 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Friends:

    The politically correct German media cannot bring themselves to use the word Islam or Muslim but point out the issues of Islamic supremacy and barbaric tribal behavior that is common to the descendants of Ishmael the "wild donkey of man" as the bible describes.

    Watch two very disturbing reports from the German media

    http://www.shoebat.com/videos/ger.htm

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:32 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    http://occidentallibertas.wordpress.com/2011/09/19/the-islamic-no-go-zones-in-europe/

    -This is the site where I got this clip. I doubt the people who manage this site even know of the Hudson Institute. Clearly, Mr. Kennedy wants people to believe the threat of Radical Islam is just a figment of their imaginations. Perhaps he should send a letter to all the Non-Muslim business people in Birmingham, England who have been force to leave their neighborhoods because only Muslim businesses are only welcome there now. And tell the Non-Muslims it's just a figment of their imagination they are no longer welcome in these neighborhoods.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:23 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    The Islamic No-Go Zones in Europe


    Looks like Europe is conquered by Islam without guns,bombs or tanks which many jihadists would like to see.The muslim conquest of Europe is going through immigration,higher birthrates of muslim immigrants and conversion of non-muslims to Islam.But the most dangerous thing happening in Europe is the formation of no-go zones for non-muslims in major European cities.For example in the London borough of Tower Hamlets which has a large muslim population is a dangerous no-go zone for non-muslims like Sikhs,Jews,Christians and Atheists which are increasingly attacked by muslim radicals in the borough.A Sikh temple was burned twice and vicar of a Christian church was beaten by muslims (link) and many unveiled women are targeted by Islamic radicals (link).But now the situation in Tower Hamlets is getting worse,thanks to the increase of muslims in the borough.The muslim residents of Tower Hamlets demanded a mayor for borough which they have now and the borough will be turned into an Islamic mini-state which is carefully planned by the radical Islamic Forum of Europe which infiltrated the Labour Party and made a Bangladeshi-born British muslim (Luftur Rahman) which is a member of the Labour Party the mayor of Tower Hamlets.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:19 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Good points Steve. I know of a news clip from Germany that gives an example of political correctness on this issue. I will post it momentarily.

     
  • Brian Dockter posted at 8:17 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Brian Dockter Posts: 2860

    Joanne,

    I'm not afraid of Islam per se. It's what people like you who don't understand what the effects of the expansion of Islam will have on America. Sharia Law is already being
    used in Dearborn, MI. And our government knows of at least 300 Madrassas that teach Radical Islam and Jihad. But I don't think you'll do any investigating of this.

    And as for K Lee, I wonder if he could give us some examples of other religions with schools all over the world teaching their students how to commit acts of terror
    in the name of their God?

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:51 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Kabobs, falafel, and humas? Yumm!!

     
  • Kim Lee posted at 1:50 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Kim Lee Posts: 1798

    Steve Parell wrote, "In my opinion it is a 7th century cult which is divisive and is also violent."

    You could be speaking of any number of religions here.

     
  • Alex Kennedy posted at 1:29 am on Sun, Oct 16, 2011.

    Alex Posts: 215

    I googled 'no go zones.' the results were all clearly by biased sources (Hudson Institute) or by people who plagiarized the original article (Clair Reitz). I could not find a single reputable source in support of DB's Glen Beck-ish contentions. As for Sharia Law being practiced in France, that is also false. Sharia law is not practiced in Europe, especially not with the support of governments. Maybe Islam is growing because after people do their own research Islam appeals to them. As a Christian, many of my non-religious friends joke that I belong to a cult. We are indoctrinated with beliefs at a young age, we practice rituals, have leaders, we seek new membership and are constantly fundraising and rarely question religious dogma. Luckily for me, my church does not serve Kool Aid. I believe if Islam scares you, it says more about you than it does about Islam.

    I hope they put on a Middle East food festival. They would have awesome kabobs, falafel, and humas. Anyone with me?

     
  • steve parell posted at 5:15 pm on Sat, Oct 15, 2011.

    ex-muslim Posts: 1

    Just want to say , criticizing/mocking Islam is a matter of free speech and not racist. Islam is a belief system like communism/marxism/scientology. It is neither a culture nor a race.

    Islam should be studied from a pro and anti source. In my opinion it is a 7th century cult which is divisive and is also violent. People who are in it don't know it or realize it, people who escape from it (ex-muslims) hate it.

    Do not be politically correct or feel shy in criticizing or debating Islam , just like you wouldn't feel shy about debating marxism.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 11:54 am on Sat, Oct 15, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    More humor and distortion from ms Bobin... OK... so please articulate why something that France has learned from experience should not be worth the time to contemplate and learn for ourselves.

    What I would especially appreciate is the Muslim community expressing their thoughts as to how the American experience will definitely be different that the French. If you look at Iran, there is a priest facing the death penalty because of Sharia Law that has been well publicized. Sharia should be a concern and Muslims should teach others what it is and what they think of it.

    France legal system accommodates Sharia law now, but they did not years ago. It was an evolution of events that changed what was accepted.
    It seems to me if approached in a thoughtful reasonable basis, the Muslim experience could be a possible wonderful experience for all. However, if people like Ms bobin prevails, people will fear public debate as no one wants to be considered a racist or phobic. Please Ms Bobin, have the decency to let people voice concerns without such dishonest aspersions on your part.

    Ms Bobin simply likes to stir the pot and pretend others are either bigots or Islamaphobes or some time of phobic menace.... she prefers to avoid discussion and distract from issues that are important to discuss. Someday, I have a feeling Ms Bobin will be ashamed or embarrassed of her silly behaviors.

     
  • Justin Creadible posted at 11:22 am on Sat, Oct 15, 2011.

    DivideandConquer Posts: 5

    Many fear the expansion but I don't mind. I see them as allies, many of them understand tyranny first hand and they look out for there own people. They work together to better themselves. I think it's there unity that scares people. I'm of the opinion to each there own even if don't fully agree with many of there practices. Poplar St. and the park are a safer area due the mosque. Remember when we were all united, LODI what happened?

     
  • Joanne Bobin posted at 9:39 am on Sat, Oct 15, 2011.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    My first thought at seeing this headline in today's paper was - here we go -all of the Islamaphobes of Lodi (and Arizona) will be out making comments.

    I think Mr. Baumbach's inability to even spell "Google" says it all. What comes after is of no consequence.

     
  • Darrell Baumbach posted at 8:05 am on Sat, Oct 15, 2011.

    Darrell Baumbach Posts: 9405

    I sincerely hope the Muslim expansion in America develops in a different manner than it did in France. We are at the beginning stage compared to France. President Obama is seemingly attempting to Europeanize United States. If we follow in their footsteps, where they welcomed Islam with open arms in the name of religious freedom and diversity, Our country could change dramatically.

    If you "goggle" No go zones France, you can educate yourself to the possibilities.

    Below is a typical article...

    Author: Claire Reitz
    Published: September 20, 2011 at 6:39 am

    'No-go' zones are for everyone that is not Muslim are springing up all over Europe at alarming rates. Many neighborhoods in London are now unsafe for non-Muslims to inhabit. These areas have been formed with 'ethnic cleansing' harassment tactics; forcing existing residents out of their homes by Muslim harassment. Not only are these places unsafe to live in, they're hazardous to walk into. Many women have been threatened with violence and even death for not wearing Islamic veils when simply walking in a London neighborhood. Gays have also had death threats shouted at them by Muslim preachers.

    Many neighborhoods hang signs that say "You are entering a Sharia controlled zone: Islamic rules enforced." Christian preachers have also been accused of hate crimes for handing out Christian reading in Muslim neighborhoods. Police told these pastors to stop or they would be arrested. Several Islamic groups including Muslims against the Crusade leading the Islamic Emirates Project are openly on a mission to turn several areas of London and the UK into independent Islamic republics ruled by Sharia law.


    Read more: http://technorati.com/politics/article/no-go-zones-for-non-muslims/#ixzz1arZCrA44

     
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