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Lodi Police Department, other agencies grapple with ammunition shortage

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Posted: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 12:00 am

The Lodi Police Department used to encourage its officers to train frequently at the firing range. Not today, though. Bullets are scarce and shipments take months to receive, causing Lodi to severely limit the frequency of firearm training.

"We would encourage all officers to go to the range any time they wanted to," said Sgt. Doug Chinn of the Lodi Police Department. "But we've had to ration our ammunition because we just don't have enough."

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  • Andrew Liebich posted at 1:09 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    For the mentally oblivious,

    First, U.S. combat forces (with the exception of some military police), do not use hollow point ammunition because of the 1899 Hague Declaration.

    Second, The Pentagon purchases ammunition for our military forces.

    Third, The DHS is a civilian security force and does not engage in "combat" (at least according to their own mission statement)...


  • Brett Thompson posted at 12:22 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

    Brett Thompson Posts: 55

    OK, nutjobs. Did you ever think that maybe DHS is buying all of the hollow-point bullets to keep them off of the streets and from killing officers (since they can pierce Kevlar)? They can't currently ban them, so they're doing the next best thing.

    I'm sure they also know that they could be used in combat, if needed.

    So, go hide in your bunker and wait for the government to attack or the apocalypse.

    But, please take your meds. We don't need any more of you nutjobs turning your guns on innocent civilians (even if the voices tell you that they're from the government).

  • Mike Adams posted at 12:03 pm on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    But what you refuse to acknowledge is that you have no history, experience, or knowledge to determine if this is an unusual amount of ammunition to buy going back at least 7 years. You also do not have the requisite knowledge to determine if the numbers of either caliber, gauge, or munition types is an inappropriate quantity to purchase.

    Basically, all you have is a theory. A theory based on some sort of government agency or agencies who are co;nspiraring to an unknown end. A "conspiracy theory" if you will.

    So continue to spin yourself into a tighter and tighter ball. You are educating no one and the only thing you are succeeding in is reinforcing the common idea that conspiracy theorists have something wrong with them.

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 9:04 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up. It's "routine" for DHS to purchase 173 years worth of ammunition.

  • Mike Adams posted at 8:06 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    Looking through these solicitations and requests for ammunition and the subsequent analysis by the CTs really reveals a depth of a lack of understanding as to the number and types of ammunition that is being bought.

    If the CTs really knew what they were looking for and were able to tell the difference between what would be considered a "training round" (which it appears much of these purchases are) and a combat round they might be able to make a very small case for their hysteria. Fortunately the only ones who seem to be falling for their flawed analysis is other CTs and fellow fringe dwellers.

    Next time, maybe do some real research and background. It'll spare you from looking completely foolish. You'll just look like chicken little and give us all a little laugh.

  • robert maurer posted at 7:33 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 488

    Excellent corrections from 4:04 to 5:50! Excellent info at 1:39am .I can't find the proverbial "smoking gun" (absolute proof) during a hunt through the jungle of websites to support my theory,but some believe that since the merging of several agencies became the DHS after 9/11, and probably as far back as the Clinton administration, there have been ideas bantered about regarding gun and ammo restrictions to the public. Some of these restrictions took effect. In many cases, the amount of ammo one can buy is limited by law or dealer stock. There is an interesting statement on the DHS website in which it is claimed that some of the 2.6 billion rounds will be supplied to other law enforcement agencies(Peggy Dixon). It seems to me that little by little, the DHS wants to be the middleman between the ammo manufacturer and the dealer. Some congressmen and senators would vote for this in a heartbeat and use the tragic school and movie shootings as their talking points.One day soon, it would not surprise me to have to go through DHS to purchace ammo, and putting production limitations on manufacturers. Any wonder why some are stockpiling ammo and guns?

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 1:39 am on Thu, Apr 11, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    How many bullets does DHS have to buy before those sleepwalking through life functioning as cogs awaken from their corporate media induced slumbers?

    First, to put the DHS’ ammunition solicitations in perspective consider this, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers only used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month.


    Secondly, consider the fact that DHS is actually censoring information in their solicitations. It’s true.

    Despite the fact that documents pertaining to government activity are only supposed to be redacted for national security reasons or if authorized by Congress, a new entry posted on the FedBizOpps website pertaining to firearms manufacturer Remington contains numerous blacked-out sections.


    Is this the first time the DHS has redacted information related to firearms or bullet purchases? Of course not.

    In August last year, DHS classified portions of a document to conceal references to the amount of 223 62 and 223 64 grain ammunition being purchased in another no-bid contract.


    Sheeple, denial may offer comforts you find appealing but in the end it’s still denial.


    March 13, 2012 450 million rounds of .40-caliber hollow point ammunition

    June 7, 2012 7,000 fully automatic assault rifles, labeling them “Personal Defense Weapons” (I guess they are only called assault weapons if owned by private citizens), and 2,700 mine-resistant, ambush-protected (MRAP) armored vehicles.

    August 10, 2012 750 million rounds of ammo

    August 14, 2012 46,000 rounds of .40 S&W jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets

    August 15, 2012 174,000 rounds of .357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow points

    September 18,2012 200 million rounds of .223 rifle ammunition

    September 18, 2012 176,000 rounds of .308 caliber 168 grain hollow point boat tail (HPBT) rounds

    February 7, 2013 21.6 million rounds
    February 11, 2013 240,000 hollow point rounds

    March 25, 2013 360,000 rounds of .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point ammunition

  • Mike Adams posted at 5:21 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    And even here you must rely on the work of others......

    Did you tell my buds at DHS hey for me?

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 4:55 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Mr. Mauer already provided you with a math lesson.[lol]...ROFLMAO

  • robert maurer posted at 4:12 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 488

    What site did you go to on the govt. listings pages,Kevin? Here are a couple of URLs that may help, except for the fact that they only mention 1.6 instead of 2.6 billion rounds being purchaced by DHS. www.foxnews..com/.../why-is-department-homeland-security-b and also www.forbes/.../1-6billionrounds-of-ammo-for homelan The forbes site has 957 comments on this subject. Some are factual and educational, and some are pure pasture pancakes, just like here. Check it out and see for yourself.

  • Mike Adams posted at 4:04 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    Kevin: It's the motivation to buy in bulk, not the size of the purchase. Normal people like you and me, we see the government is buying materials, buying a lot of them and that makes sense. They don't go bad really. If andrew actually knew something about guns and ammo, he would know that while yes, buying hollow points is generally more expensive then lead bullets, if he knew, then he should also know you practice with what you use. If you're going to use more powerful rounds in service, then you better get used to shooting those. Being surprised the first time you shoot a magnum load in even a 357, you know it's a hole different game.

    Also HPBT are used not because they are deadlier, it is because they are more effecient and accurate then other styles of bullets. Almost everyone in benchrest, probably PALMA to, use HPBT. Of course if the person he copied the information from knew better, then andrew could have copied off a better response and not even known it.

    Good Grief is right. Go back to seeing how many zeros there are in a gazillion.

  • Mike Adams posted at 3:30 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    I remember the good ol' days when it was only 1.7 million rounds. Perhaps this would be an excellent time for CTers to brush up on arithmatic, particularly decimal places.

    I know, I know, it's all my fault. And Joannes. And Eric's. We are all oblivious. We are all sheep. All of us have a fault. All of us have multiple faults. All of us share faults. From what I've seen on these boards, the only person without any faults is liebich. And he claims to work for the alex jones show, in spite of the fact his name appears no where in any alex jones littature or staff, but back to my point, andrew's always right and the rest of us all have some flaw. Maybe mine isn't stealing other people's words and passing them off as my own. Maybe Joanne's is that she checks the many, many kook conspiracy theorist web sites andrew loves (and pretends to write for) to confirm they are just more nutty websites written by nuts (but not andrew) and believed by other nuts.

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 3:07 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    "hollow point bullets happen to be completely unsuitable for training purposes because they cost significantly MORE money compared to standard firing range bullets. This debunks both the “saving money” argument and the “for training purposes only” claim in one fell swoop."

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 3:04 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    For heavens sake Kevin... The website I provided is the website you requested. The ammo solicitations are listed. What is your major malfunction?

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:15 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2111

    Anyone tempted to go to the site provided, don't bother, it is just a JOBS listing for the federal government.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 2:10 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2111

    Good Grief is right [scared] ! I mean, SHOOT, we complain when the government wastes our money, then they lock in a price over a number of years on bullets to SAVE money and now people are screaming they want to wage war on the common citizen.

    Heaven forbid those who are suppose to be protecting us, TRAIN to fire their weapons. OR have the weapons/bullets needed to react to hostile threats. Especially with people like Alex Jones out there trying to incite people into bloody revolution against the government.,

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 1:21 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Good grief! [rolleyes]


  • Kevin Paglia posted at 12:39 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2111

    Can someone please post where they are getting the Billions of rounds of ammo ordered. All I keep finding are ones like this for 450millon


  • robert maurer posted at 12:21 pm on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 488

    No. Merely using other posters' comments combined with FACTS. Don't you wish you could do that? [yawn]

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 11:50 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Californian Congressman Doug LaMalfa and 14 of his House peers have written a letter to the Department of Homeland Security demanding to know why the federal agency is buying so many rounds of ammunition and whether the purchases are part of a deliberate attempt to restrict supply to the American people.

    DHS has NOT responded to LaMalfa’s letter.[sleeping]

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:46 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    The best part of Mr. Maurer's statement was that he admitted to being a "paranoid 2nd amendment rights activist."

    Just how do you express your "activism" Mr. Maurer? By making paranoid comments on small town newspaper blogs?

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:42 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    "It sure isn't us paranoid 2nd amendment rights activists and gun owners buying a thousand rounds at a time causing the shortage. Some make the stupidest statements."

    1. Mr. Rainwater stated he maintains a 1000 rounds in his safe at all times. At some point he had to acquire 1000 rounds, so obviously they were all purchased at the same time.
    2. Let's presume that Mr. Rainwater isn't the only gun nut that does this.
    3. That puts a big hole in your statement, which by the way breaks rule #5, that "some make the stupidist statements."

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 11:32 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Mr. Leebick: YOU are the one who claimed that 14 Congressmen could NOT find out why they were purchasing so much ammunition and there was some big secret surrounding the whole deal.

    YOU are entitled to your own facts, but at least make them consistent.

  • robert maurer posted at 11:02 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    mason day Posts: 488

    mathematics time; 1 million= 1000 thousand ; 1 billion= 1000 million ; 1 trillion= 1000 billion... DHS spokesman Peggy Dixon claims that up to 15 million rounds are used by 70,000 agents and 90 agencies or 230,000 people. That means that in 2 years, 30 million rounds were used;3years=45 million;4years=60 million;5years=75 million... 10years=150 million...100years=1.5 BILLION rounds used. The DHS needs 2.6BILLION roundsWHY???! No wonder there's an ammo shortage. It sure isn't us paranoid 2nd amendment rights activists and gun owners buying a thousand rounds at a time causing the shortage. Some make the stupidest statements

  • Brett Thompson posted at 9:43 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Brett Thompson Posts: 55

    Geez...there are some paranoid people in this town. Go build your bunker and stockpile ammunition, you lunatics.

    If the government decided to "come for you", like some imply, your small arms and ammunition wouldn't stand a chance against them.


  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:50 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    173 YEARS WORTH OF AMMO IS HARDLY "Routine"[sleeping]

    If the department has ever purchased this much ammunition before, during what period of time did these purchases occur?

    Tell us Mike...Why does the DHS need more ammunition than the Pentagon, which is actively fighting multiple wars?

  • Mike Adams posted at 8:30 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    The problem Joanne, is people like you and me (normal people) know that routine contracts for goods and services are let by government agencies everyday. Conspiracy theorists (or conspiracy "terrorists" as they should be identified) see only sinister, secret motives behind everyday normal business.
    The partial post that follows really illustrates this:
    " The DHS’s ammo solicitations are public record and may be viewed at the Federal Business Opportunities (FBO) website. Referring to them as “conspiracy theory” is as absurd as ignoring the fact that the DHS recently acquired 173 YEARS worth of ammo. " The CT is not the requisition for ammunition, it's the purpose of the requisition which is the CT. CTs don't see the difference.

    Couple the neurotic brain pathways with a carnival barker like Alex Jones and he gets an issue and more listeners (most of which also exhibit psychological illness), which translates to more money for Alex Jones.

    Of all the issues in the world and the accompanying information on the internet now a days, most would find it odd at the least that CTs pick only the most sinister and unlikely scenarios on which to focus.

  • John Kindseth posted at 6:25 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    John Kindseth Posts: 246

    Since I seem to be on Ms Bobins' list of the uninformed, would any of you other people please explain to her that the DHS is buying jacketed/hollow point ammunition. To be easily identified and not to be confused with "wadcutters", the cheaper and standard ammunition used for target practice.

    Next, I have to profess ignorance if the 1.75 trillion rounds they are buying will satisfy their "practice shooting and training" for either 15 or 20 years.

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 12:56 am on Wed, Apr 10, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Ms. Bobin,
    You are certainly entitled to your own opinion but you are NOT entitled to your own facts. The DHS’s ammo solicitations are public record and may be viewed at the Federal Business Opportunities (FBO) website. Referring to them as “conspiracy theory” is as absurd as ignoring the fact that the DHS recently acquired 173 YEARS worth of ammo.

  • Kevin Paglia posted at 4:48 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

    Kevin Paglia Posts: 2111

    Never really got into guns. Too many risks for me to feel safe with one in the house.

    Now a good compound bow, There is a weapon that takes skill to use without the risks.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 3:57 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    I could care less about your guns, Mr. Rainwater...you can have all you want, but it is the fanatics like you who think everyone is out to take your guns and ammo away that are the dangerous ones and are ruining gun ownership for everyone else.

    I don't have "buddies" in Sacramento or Washington, DC, but I do have a really neat 45 that will keep YOU away from me when your crazed fanaticism get out of control.

  • Will Rainwater posted at 1:17 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

    Will Rainwater Posts: 46

    You stay unarmed JoAnne, and I`ll keep my safe stocked with 1000 rounds of .223 at all times. I am more afraid of what your buddies in Sacramento will do with their super majority than what they will do in Washington. You don`t like guns... DON`T OWN ONE< LEAVE MINE ALONE!!!!

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:25 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    At least the NRA, the gun lobby, and the gun/ammunition manufacturers have ginned up enough fear about the pending cancellation of the 2nd Amendment that they are making a FAT PROFIT off the fears of the poor souls who believe this nonsense.

  • Joanne Bobin posted at 12:23 pm on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

    Joanne Bobin Posts: 4488

    Couple of possibilities, Mr. Leebick:

    1. The LNS doesn't deal in conspiracy theories,
    2. The LNS doesn't want YOU to know that DHS is coming for you.

    Since you and Alex are such great buds and I'm sure you'll want to pass on some reliable information, I'll do you a favor a give you a couple lines from a mainstream publication instead of the CT ones that you subscribe to:

    "Published federal notices about the ammo buy have agitated conspiracy theorists since the fall. That's when conservative radio host Alex Jones spoke of an "arms race against the American people" and said the government was "gearing up for total collapse, they're gearing up for huge wars."

    The government's explanation is much less sinister.

    Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises."

  • Andrew Liebich posted at 8:35 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

    Andrew Liebich Posts: 2999

    Not a single mentioning of the fact that DHS has purchased 2.6+ BILLION rounds or that 14 members of congress have now demended an explanation and been refused.

    Unbelievable! [sleeping]

  • Mike Adams posted at 8:01 am on Tue, Apr 9, 2013.

    Mike Adams Posts: 1572

    I have some extras. Maybe we could negotiate an equitable solution. Like no traffic tickets again. In perpetuity.



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