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Lodi resident who started prayer debate comes forward

Council will vote on policy Wednesday

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Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 12:00 am

The person who started the debate over prayers before Lodi City Council meetings has stepped forward and said a lawsuit is still on the table.

Lodi resident Karen Buchanan made the original complaint about council prayers to the Madison, Wis.-based Freedom From Religion Foundation.

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Welcome to the discussion.

197 comments:

  • posted at 8:51 am on Wed, Oct 28, 2009.

    Posts:

    Aimee: How is not having someone pray before the city council negatively affecting anyone?

     
  • posted at 3:50 am on Wed, Oct 28, 2009.

    Posts:

    Yes, I am intolerant of bigotry, racism and xenophobia. You got me there....I feel terrible.

     
  • posted at 12:22 pm on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    And you would be arguing correctly Aimee.

     
  • posted at 11:27 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Being tolerant is a subjective term depending upon who is using it.If I believe that illegal aliens are breaking the law when they come to work here and without the proper visas, is that intolerant or simply stating the facts of the situation, as viewed from a legal perspective?If I believe that our society is immoral and becoming more so all the time, is that belief intolerant or simply a view developed as a result of personal life experience?Is it intolerant to call someone else intolerant because you don't like what they believe in or think?I would argue that it is.

     
  • posted at 11:21 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Why does LodiJoe need to be tolerant of things that he views as negatively affecting him?

     
  • posted at 10:42 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Aimee wrote on Oct 26, 2009 8:57 PM:" In LodiJoe's defense, Lodi has changed quite a bit in the past 60 years."Being old isn't an excuse for being intolerant.

     
  • posted at 10:41 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    mike wrote on Oct 27, 2009 8:28 AM: "I would say in a Christian Country as ours is..."Yes, you would say that. And you and others like you, can say it as loud and as often as you want. It won't make it true. This is not a Christian nation.

     
  • posted at 8:07 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodian wrote on Oct 27, 2009 10:25 AM:"There are no "rights" here. The LNS can do what they want with their blogs. We're just tolerated guests. lol! "Uh, didn't I just say that?

     
  • posted at 5:26 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    ....well, this is a teacher's pet though. ;-)

     
  • posted at 5:25 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    There are no "rights" here. The LNS can do what they want with their blogs. We're just tolerated guests. lol!

     
  • posted at 4:25 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Quick primer on freedom of speech as applied to un-protected speech. This would include obscenity, slander, libel, deceptive commercial advertising, incitement to riot, etc.LNS may legally restrict this type of speech. The freedom to speak is not absolute where un-protected speech is concerned.The other issue is that, historically, the first amendment applied only to actions taken by the government/state in restricting speech (as applied to the states through the 14th Amendment. However, precedent has been that if an entity acts "as" a government/state actor, the 1st amendment will apply. I don't think LNS could be seen as a state action, possibly as a public forum. Regardless, they are able to restrict unprotected speech or offensive language.

     
  • posted at 4:07 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian wrote on Oct 23, 2009 8:16 AM:"Rich Hanner, You are aware that offensive speech is protected under the first ammendment?"Sure, unless one disagrees with Jerome Kinderman.

     
  • posted at 4:00 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Mike: So, if one is not a Christian then they have no value?

     
  • posted at 3:28 am on Tue, Oct 27, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodi free thinker wrote- Organizations like FFRF are necessary to help balance the Christian majority in this country. I would say in a Christian Country as ours is, the Churches are mainly in the soul saving business. Those in competition with them, are really in what business? For what ever reason, Americans tend to be a bit more benevolent than others, it might have a bit to do with the fact that benevolent societies get the tax break they do? Or could it be the Christian principles instilled in them that make them more giving?

     
  • posted at 5:28 pm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    No, i am not saying immigrants are bad so please don't start up a convo about how the Mexicans have a plan to take bake California. And Americas as much as the immigrants as it it yours.Our country was created on immigration, and diversity its nice to see America's becoming more diverse.

     
  • posted at 5:25 pm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    For those of you who are in love with lodi, sorry to say but its becoming a mini-Stockton. There is alot of gang violence, and drugs and sorry to say but LPD really sucks they haven't cracked down on anything. They need to stop the problem however they aren't stopping lodi increasingly growing gang problem. Its mostly second generation Mexicans. It's all happening because of lodis opportunity to provide jobs for immigrants, if you wanna make it in America from a different country lodi is the best place to work.

     
  • posted at 3:57 pm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    In LodiJoe's defense, Lodi has changed quite a bit in the past 60 years. Yes, Lodi has more crime. Yes, it has grown quite a bit in the past 60 years. His interpretation of just why this has occurred is derived from his own experience and knowledge, who is to say that his experiences do not logically create the conclusions he makes? Lodian, you say that we improve and get better with time, learn to be different as a people. But isn't the idea that we have progressed a subjective phenomenon? The idea of progression could be related to political or religious views, and, therefore, up to the interpretation of the reader. And the repeated use of "liveralism" is a bit childish guys, don't you think?

     
  • posted at 3:35 pm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    Sorry, I forgot to give credit to LodiFreethinker (October 21) for the beginning sentence of my post.

     
  • posted at 3:32 pm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    "I cited that letter in response to a post that put forth the argument that since the words "separation of church and state" don't exist in the constitution, the concept doesn't exist. Its just a silly argument.."The US Supreme Court visited the issue of separation of church and state in Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971). The court developed a 3-prong test to evaluate whether or not a violation of the "establishment clause" had occurred. The last test concerns itself with "excessive government entanglement" with religion, hence the idea of "separation of church and state". Constitutional law is a subject that is somewhat set apart from the others subjects since the majority of our modern Constitutional laws, the interpretation of what the specific provisions of the Constitution means, is judge-made. Thus, the fact that the exact words do not appear in the Constitution is immaterial, as our interpretation of just WHAT the Constitution means comes from the Court.Some other examples of this concept would be the Court's holding that the provisions of the Const. allows the state to legally and morally sterlize a mentally disabled person.

     
  • posted at 2:48 pm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    Ooops, there it is.

     
  • posted at 2:47 pm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    Another post has been removed it seems.

     
  • posted at 2:30 pm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    Hick: There seems to be some kind-of disconnect. Yes, Allah is God. Why can't all of Islam except that -- just as you have.

     
  • posted at 1:15 pm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    I'm sorry to say but 9-11 was the govt's fault, we were calling the taliban "freedom Fighters." The govt wanted them to over throw the afghan govt, in return we would help them rebuild Afghanistan. We left Afghanistan in a mess and we paid we paid the price im sorry to say, but its true. This is why were still in Afghanistan because we dont want to make the same mistake. the U.S has a history of doing this, thank "Allah" the Cuban terrorist groups were put into power and haven't done anything yet.1. Did you know Allah translates into God.2. Did you know Christianities similar to Islam in many ways.3. the bible has been changed were as Islam hasn't that's why it seems extreme to us the bible has adopted to modern times while Islam still remains the same.

     
  • posted at 10:41 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    Rhodie wrote: "If the government were to take your stance that churches should not eligiable tax exemption then THAT would be in violation of the first ammendment since it is prohibiting the religion from operation in favor of non-religious organizations. "You are correct, the Constitution would not allow for the government to eliminate a tax benefit for a church, simply because it was a church. If the church otherwise qualified for the exemption, that was available to all organizations, then the government would have to grant it.There are, however, exemptions that are ONLY available to churches, and their employees. These are unconstitutional, and these are what need to be eliminated."The parsonage exemption" and housing allowances for "ministers of the gospel" are the examples mentioned in the article, that apply only to churches, and therefore violate the establishment clause.That's my interpretation anyway, we'll see what the Judges think.

     
  • posted at 9:07 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    "Government favoring religion over non-religion is a violation of the establishment clause."The government is not favoring religion over non-religion. If ONLY churches enjoyed tax expemption status then you would have a point. But there are thousands of non-religious foundations that also take advantage of tax-exemption.If the government were to take your stance that churches should not eligiable tax exemption then THAT would be in violation of the first ammendment since it is prohibiting the religion from operation in favor of non-religious organizations.

     
  • posted at 9:06 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiFreeThinker, I feel the same way of ANYONE, regardless of race, color or creed who feel obligated to live for free at the expense of honest hard working American taxpayers. "Ill conceived immigration laws? Why don't you take as many illegals as you can in YOUR house and YOU can pay for their food, education and medical expenses. Like a LOT of Amican taxpayers I am sick and tired of supporting them.

     
  • posted at 8:44 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    Government favoring religion over non-religion is a violation of the establishment clause.The government should not favor one religion over another. It should not favor non-religion over religion. And it should not favor religion over non-religion.The power of the establishment clause, coupled with the free exercise clause, creates a neutral government, free to equally represent all of us.

     
  • posted at 8:30 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    "It's unfair, it goes against the constitution and it ultimately erodes the freedoms of millions of Americans."And how exactly are current tax codes against the constitution?

     
  • posted at 8:02 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    What ridiculous questions. If I were an illegal alien, or was on welfare it wouldn't change the fact that you are intolerant of people you perceive to be different, and therefore not welcome.It doesn't further your argument, or cast a friendlier light on your bigotry to make accusations.For the record, I don't condone people breaking the law. Even the ill conceived immigration policy we currently have. That doesn't mean I blame illegal immigrants for all of our problems like so many here.Finally, not that your questions deserve answers, but I am a legal citizen, and I am not on any kind of public assistance.

     
  • posted at 7:17 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiFreeThinker, you are a real piece of work. What a knucklehead. You here legally? You on on the public dole? I said I would personally wave good bye when people who don't like Lodi what goes on here, in your case I would hire a brass band as your rode out of town for good.

     
  • posted at 4:31 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    mike wrote "I really wonder what this foundation thinks it is in competition for?"Well, helping to maintain the Separation of Church and State for starters. Organizations like FFRF are necessary to help balance the Christian majority in this country.The government should not be favoring the religious institutions financially the way they do. It's unfair, it goes against the constitution and it ultimately erodes the freedoms of millions of Americans.No more tax exemptions for churches!

     
  • posted at 4:17 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe wrote "I have ZERO problem with legal immigrants that come to America,..."Oh, right. I see your just oozing tolerance... LodiJoe wrote on Oct 21, 2009 7:06 AM:"She has a constitutional right to move if she doesn't like Lodi or what goes on here. "LodiJoe wrote on Oct 23, 2009 11:59 AM:"But we caved in to liveralism in this city and allow people to move here and ruin our very peace and personal security."LodiJoe wrote on Oct 22, 2009 12:20 PM:"I still say if you don't like Lodi or what goes on here, I will personally wave as you move elsewhere. "That sounds like you have a very BIG problem with people you find threatening. Well, like it or not Joe, this is America and we welcome all kinds. Even intolerant xenophobes.

     
  • posted at 4:11 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    cranksterfromlodi wrote on Oct 26, 2009 3:20 AM:" the only reason people like you hate muslims is because of 9-11.9-11 was the the govt's fault" That is absurd! As are most your other assertions. Get some sleep man.

     
  • posted at 3:09 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    hicksvilianfromlodi wrote on Oct 26, 2009 3:21 AM:" the only reason the media is blaming muslims is because of yellow press to get idiot like brian to read there articles "-I will pray that you rise above your ignorance of Islam.

     
  • posted at 3:06 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    Hickster,I don't even live in CA. I work six days a week MR. Can you give me some evidence that Clinton didn't sign the Islam Partnership.

     
  • posted at 2:46 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    I have ZERO problem with legal immigrants that come to America, become productive tax paying citizens and are law abiding people, I have a HUGE problem with illegal immigrants that sneak in to America and figure out how to "milk" the system out of free medical, education and public assistance. Their attitude is "I hate Americans, now give me my free stuff". Give all to everyone and one day you will have nothing to give and we are at that point right now.

     
  • posted at 12:28 am on Mon, Oct 26, 2009.

    Posts:

    OKAY,, keep burying your head in the sand and one day when you pull it out you will say "What the heck happened?" You "do nothing" liberals who think we should embrace everyone and they will be our friends are in for a rude awakening. Apparently you want to live in a third world nation. Slowly we are becoming the country immigrants fled from because they keep draining our resources.

     
  • posted at 10:21 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    the only reason the media is blaming muslims is because of yellow press to get idiot like brian to read there articles

     
  • posted at 10:20 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    the only reason people like you hate muslims is because of 9-11. 9-11 was the the govt's fault sorry to say but its true. if we had never screwed over bin laden and his FREEDOM FIGHTERS we would have never been in trouble. we went after terrorist but only to exploit the middle east of its oil

     
  • posted at 10:17 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/madein.htm

     
  • posted at 10:17 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserverThe August 24th article quoted above unwittingly betrays the method by which the U.S. government's sponsorship of bin Laden is justified. When the U.S. openly supported bin Laden and friends, they were give a label ("resistance fighters") so they were ok. Now they have been given a new label ("terrorists") and thus they are transformed. The U.S. government is absolved of guilt because the people it supported in the past weren't these terrorists it is bombing today, they were those resistance fighters. Amazing.

     
  • posted at 10:11 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    someone could of made thaat up brian your idiot man. they put that kind of stuff online just to scare people like you. you know why osama bin laden bombed america not because of religious beliefs but because america screwed him over he hates america just like the rest of the world because we are powerful and we spread domacracy in countries who dont want your jackass brian dont you realize were allies with pakistan who can easily ake out the us by nuking us. and soudi arabia who were also allies with your a joke brian your nothing but a pathetic racist.

     
  • posted at 10:03 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    you have extremest in all religions look at the jews for example, they have numbers of extremest groups the reason your hearing about the lunch is because there happens to be a high muslim population in lodi due to the agricultural opportunities. once they come from pakistan they look for cheap labor much like the mexicans it is appropriate for them to ask to stand in a lunch line with there kids to make sure they dont eat halal. its people like you that make me sick because you try to give all muslims a bad name i cant wait until this nation has a muslim president because it will piss you off i bet your a hard core conservative arn't you

     
  • posted at 9:58 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian your honestly an idiot you have no idea where you live. Alot of the muslims in lodi are idiot there not at the same. Look at Taj Khan for example he is a standout citizen your just an ignorant man from lodi who im willing to bet money has never had a hards day work who believes that the muslims are going to take over american just to get you through the day.

     
  • posted at 5:41 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    OTH wrote on Oct 24, 2009 10:35 PM:"Brian Do you have ANY life at all where you live? You spend an awful lot of time obsessing about what goes on in Lodi. Who's doing what to whom and why."OTH: I agree.

     
  • posted at 3:22 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    One time there was this priest who touched a little boy in his privates but then he said a prayer in Lodi.

     
  • posted at 12:03 pm on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33898Islam's 20 year plan for U.S.-I keep going back to this.

     
  • posted at 11:42 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    I never wanted this blogging for you, For myself, I refused to be a fool - dancing on the strings held by some of these self-appointed experts here. I thought when it was time, you would be the one to hold the strings, Senator, Governor, or something.

     
  • posted at 11:27 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://www.blessedcause.org/clinton.htmBattleground: Public SchoolSo just what DID President Clinton do? He "negotiated." Evidence shows Clinton cut a deal with Islamic leaders to legalize and protect Muslim indoctrination in our public schools. If Clinton could give Islam the conversion of our youth, Islam's resolve to destroy America would be appeased.This was a tricky business with secular groups campaigning to strip all reference to the Bible and Christianity from schools. Therefore Clinton colluded with secular and religious-sounding groups and based his new Presidential Guidelines (2) on a document drafted by the American Muslim Council, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, the ACLU which owns the copyright and many of the very groups attempting to censor Christianity today. This document can now be easily viewed (3) . In the guidelines, every single "religious expression" that opens the door for Islam came equipped with a clause of escape, (2a) a backdoor for the ACLU to attack should anything Christian dare enter public schools under the same guidelines as Islam employs.

     
  • posted at 11:22 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://www.blessedcause.org/proof/Clinton%20Islam%20Partnership.htmThe Clinton and Islam PartnershipEvidence of Negotiations using America’s Public School ChildrenMuch of this post researched and confirmed by Wes Vernon of NewsMax , Paul Sperry of WND and now Bob Unruh 10/19/06 Sources thoroughly providedAbdurahman Alamoudi, President of the American Muslim Council, supporter of Hamas, Hezbollah and accused of ties with Osama bin Laden, helped develop "Religious Expression in Public School" which was launched by Clinton in 1995. These "Presidential Guidelines" greatly impact public schools today. Nadine Strossen, President of the ACLU, refers to these guidelines as the authority to support the ACLU’s lawsuits restricting Christmas celebrations and removing Nativity scenes from public schools. Meanwhile all practices of Islam are encouraged. School districts are pressured to utilize these dubious guidelines, which Clinton sold to America as "issued by 35 religious groups," including the American Muslim Council/Alamoudi/suspected terrorist. -Nice job Bubba.Lodian,Do you dare try to explain this away?

     
  • posted at 11:11 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    There comes a time where even the most BULLHEADED person should understand what these articles are saying. In the case of Lodian, though, I've almost exhausted my resources trying to get through to her.

     
  • posted at 9:17 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian: Your point?------------------

     
  • posted at 4:36 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/islam_in_the_usa/09/25/09 2nd ADDENDUM - Islamic Call to Prayer to be Broadcast at the USA National Mall - Sept 25Now is the time for USA's citizens to question the President of the United States and his overt affinity for Islam. Now is the time to call your Representatives and Senators and the White House ask them WHY Islam is being allowed to subjugate a large portion of the 146 acres of the United States in an area that is the location of the USA's most patriotic monuments along with the Nations Capitol Building and White House."The Muslim Athan (Call to Prayer) will be broadcast from the United States Capital to the Lincoln Memorial, from the Smithsonian to the White House on Sept. 25 while an estimated 50,000 Muslims converge on the West Steps and lawn of the United States Capital." For more information go to:http://islamoncapitolhill.com/Home_Page.html

     
  • posted at 4:19 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/population-jihad/The dhimmis in the British government, in their endless quest to pander to muslims, have spent £1.3 million on a development of nine family properties designed to meet the needs of the muslim community. The brand spanking new apartment complex has six, 3-bed, five person homes and three 4-bed, eight person homes which have been built to meet current Homes & Communities Agency Standards and constructed in line with Rochdale’s Asian Housing Strategy. Undoubtedly, the new homes are constructed to be like other "Asian" housing built to facilitate the Islamic lifestyle with such amenities as toilets that do not face Mecca and with beds that can easily be turned to face the southeast, more cabinets and ventilation to aid in "steamy" muslim cooking and shower heads, on the toilet bowl.This exposes the statement - by Prime Minister Gordon Brown - that there would be "British homes for British people" - as a bold faced lie alongside his "British jobs for British workers" promise:-Can anyone assure me this won't happen here?

     
  • posted at 3:48 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/07/well-well-anoth.htmlPOLICE DOGS TO WEAR BOOTIES TO APPEASE MUSLIMSWell well another ludicrous example of just how far the British government and/or police will stoop in order to pander to muslims. This latest show of dhimmitude was most likely prompted by muslims declaring that airport police "sniffer" dogs are unclean and demanding that the dogs must not touch the robes of muslims - as described in a recent TheO post "Muslims Offended by Sniffer Dogs". - as well as the even more absurd muslim outrage over a police placard advertising a new non-emergency phone number - muslims were angry that an adorable German Shepherd puppy, a police dog in training, was pictured - the police response was an instant "dhimmi-apology"-of course. (TheO post explains all in Another Case of the Tail Wagging the Dog) -Good Grief!

     
  • posted at 3:36 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    OTH wrote on Oct 24, 2009 10:35 PM:" BrianDo you have ANY life at all where you live? You spend an awful lot of time obsessing about what goes on in Lodi. Who's doing what to whom and why. "-Many of my customers are from Englandand they are appalled by what the Muslims have done to their country. I also have customers from the Dearborn, MI area.Just this week here in Phoenix there was an attempted honor killing of a young Muslim woman. Her father ran her down with a car because he thought she was too westernized. He's disappeared. How about that. Honor killings are becoming all too common in America.

     
  • posted at 3:26 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    http://www.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-478/_nr-688/i.htmlIf one tries to criticise the Qur'an today, many Muslims react with hysteria. Because they don't want to accept any criticism of their religion. But we should encourage people to criticise the Qur'an. We have to protect and support the scholars who are looking at the Qur'an as scientists. That is the only way to prompt a reformation in Islam. Or secularisation in Muslim minds.

     
  • posted at 3:18 am on Sun, Oct 25, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodian wrote on Oct 24, 2009 4:04 PM:" brian 2:52/3:04And what does this have to do with the little preschool children and their lunch? "-It started with small little things like this in England. Lodian seems to be convinced that the Muslims here read from a different Koran than the Muslims in England.

     
  • posted at 5:35 pm on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

    Posts:

    BrianDo you have ANY life at all where you live? You spend an awful lot of time obsessing about what goes on in Lodi. Who's doing what to whom and why.

     
  • posted at 11:04 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

    Posts:

    brian 2:52/3:04And what does this have to do with the little preschool children and their lunch?

     
  • posted at 10:18 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

    Posts:

    Evidently Costamagna and Catherine Pennington aren't aware how Muslims react to appeasement.

     
  • posted at 10:04 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

    Posts:

    T & C wrote on Oct 22, 2009 9:08 AM:" Both Costamagna and Catherine Pennington, assistant superintendent of primary education, are working on solutions to be culturally respective of the parents' requests.Then are we going to apply the same standard to every other child "For 3 Hours" for every other nationality, or just for the "Muslims"?How absurd! And to think we are talking about a 3 hour period of instruction.Children should NEVER be used as pawns to "Further any religion!" "-Lodian,So you don't think it's madness for parents to further Islam by using their children as pawns? This just goes to show how ignorant you are about Islam.And I suppose you'll just explain awayTaj Khan's absence even though some of his rhetoric was teetering very close toIbraham Hooper of CAIR.

     
  • posted at 9:52 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

    Posts:

    Brian wrote on Oct 22, 2009 8:34 AM:" T&C:The very belief system of many Muslims is if you are not a Muslim you must be subjigated to second class citizenryor killed. Find me another religion that abides by these philosophies in modern times? "-Lodian, REALITY CHECK!!!There is no other religion that has these philosophiesin modern times. I feel an obligation to let people know that this madness still exists in modern times.

     
  • posted at 9:47 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

    Posts:

    After reading all the comments around this debate the thougt just kept running through my mind that there has to be middle ground here. I will say right off I am a follower of Jesus Christ and as much as I desire others to be I know that it is not my decision to make for them. But just as Jesus was a hot topic for debate in His day it is certainly nothing new today. Here is the thing though that I read in these comments, hate, blame, and intolerance for anything that is not exactly what we believe. Christians that act as judge, and place blame; shame on us. He did not send us into the world to repell people from Him but to draw them by love, compassion, and hearing others. When we act with all this hostility it says that there is fear. Are any of us so great that we have the right to demand everything be done our way? Christian or non christian this is not the way to resolve our differences but love and respect above them is. We get no where with all of this, we make the division wider.

     
  • posted at 9:27 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

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    Brian wrote "Evidently you got blackballed from the Muslim article too along with voter, Leonard and others Rich felt shouldn't be part of the discussion."Brian: NO... YOU got blackballed/blocked from posting about the Muslim children at Heritage School (as did your pal, T & C, t jefferson and cmd etc). IMO, the LNS was right to do so. I never posted on that blog, and neither did Leonard or voter). YOU and your pals, with your hateful comments, got that blog shut down fast before most of us could even check it out. Stop trying to include others in your madness. Just more hate from Brian. Way to go, genius.

     
  • posted at 4:54 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

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    LNS wrote:I didn't go to the council meeting to go to church, and so that whole arrangement seemed just totally out of place," Buchanan said on the show. "I felt uncomfortable with being in a church service and being asked to bow my head and to stand and to show respect to a God who is not part of who I am." -Given the VAST majority of Humans on this Earth believe in a Supreme Being,She and her ilk have a lot of nerve calling for the end of a 200 year tradition.

     
  • posted at 4:43 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

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    Let's not forget how the Muslims who don't want to assimilate in England have practically transformed the inner cities into areas of intolerance and hatemongering of anything non-Muslim.

     
  • posted at 4:41 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

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    LodiJoe wrote on Oct 23, 2009 11:59 AM:" Jeff...I have lived in this town for 60+ years and have seen what liberal doctrines have brought us and it isn't in Lodi's best interest. Why don't you take a stroll about 11pm down S.Central street/east side area. I didn't worry about my kids 40 years ago. They walked everywhere without fear. But we caved in to liveralism in this city and allow people to move here and ruin our very peace and personal security. I don't have to tell you who does the VAST majority of the crimes in Lodi, I figure you are smart emough to figure it out for yourself. "-Let's hope the eastside in Lodi doesn't turn into what the ghettos in France are likewhere it's a wasteland of Muslims who don't want to assimilate.

     
  • posted at 4:37 am on Sat, Oct 24, 2009.

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    Lodian wrote on Oct 23, 2009 8:34 AM:" Brian looks to be up in Richard Hanner's face this morning. "-Evidently you got blackballed from the Muslim article too along with voter, Leonard and others Rich felt shouldn't be part of the discussion. This article is the exact type of subject you all like to blogg on. I did get a chance to voice my opinion briefly. It seems Rich does not want a debate on how the Muslims in Lodi are trying to work their way into the fabric of public schools so they can have more say on guidelines in these schools.

     
  • posted at 6:09 pm on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    I really wonder what this foundation thinks it is in competition for?{as stated by their other frivolous lawsuit} Employees of secular organizations do not receive the tax benefits. The foundation argues that puts its organization at a "competitive disadvantage."

     
  • posted at 5:56 pm on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    The hate in this town for anyone not white, Christian, or straight is palpable. How sad. How embarrassing. Lodi's reputation outside the city limits is a joke. Reading the ignorant, prejudiced comments like those of LodiJoe, T&C, and edumacation make me ashamed to live here.

     
  • posted at 10:25 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    .I'm a firm believer in fighting fire with fire. I was recently part of a group that pressured a local resident to rescind a frivolous ADA lawsuit.If Ms Buchanan so much as sneezes in the wrong place, someone should sue her just so she knows how it feels... perhaps trip on her sidewalk...

     
  • posted at 8:43 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    LodiJoe wrote "But we caved in to liveralism in this city and allow people to move here and ruin our very peace and personal security."LodiJoe: Not sure if this deserves a response, but here it goes anyway... FYI, sorry to burst your bubble, but some horrible things have happened here in the last 60 years. Lodi has grown just like any other town. Are you telling us that everyone that has moved here in the last few decades simply doesn't belong? Really? How that even close to being rational?

     
  • posted at 8:06 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    'allow people to move here'. wow, that's rich.

     
  • posted at 8:05 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    I just got a picture of LodiJoe standing on his lawn shaking his fist at passing cars!Why don't you buy American, you liberals!Then to the kids passing by... Why don't you get a haircut you hippie liberals... stay off my lawn...Finally... to anyone who has lived on his block for less than 40 years... get out of town you liberal out-of-towners... Us REAL Lodians hate the liberal outsiders coming and stinkin up the joint...Sigh... what a sad, culturally irrelevant character....

     
  • posted at 8:04 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    LodiJoe, that was not the argument you put forth or that I rebutted. You attempted to blame this CC/prayer argument on non-native Lodians. I am proof that that is not the case. Don't try to change the argument after you lay blame and cast aspersions. You blamed non-native Lodians, but now you seem to be shifting that blame (and all others?) to "liberals".It defies logic (in the literal sense) to change the reasoning or basis of the arguement after it has been argued.

     
  • posted at 7:53 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    LodiJoe wrote on Oct 23, 2009 11:59 AM:"But we caved in to liveralism in this city and allow people to move here and ruin our very peace and personal security."It sounds like good Conservative LodiJoe (Stalin?) would have us barricade all roads leading into town with check points and guard shacks like they did in the old country. Curse those darn liverals and their need to enter and exit at will, it's all their fault.I have a feeling that the answer he wants to his idiotic question, "...who does the VAST majority of the crimes in Lodi[?]" is not "Criminals".

     
  • posted at 6:59 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    Jeff...I have lived in this town for 60+ years and have seen what liberal doctrines have brought us and it isn't in Lodi's best interest. Why don't you take a stroll about 11pm down S.Central street/east side area. I didn't worry about my kids 40 years ago. They walked everywhere without fear. But we caved in to liveralism in this city and allow people to move here and ruin our very peace and personal security. I don't have to tell you who does the VAST majority of the crimes in Lodi, I figure you are smart emough to figure it out for yourself.

     
  • posted at 3:34 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    Brian looks to be up in Richard Hanner's face this morning.

     
  • posted at 3:33 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    there goes Brian again with "I know more than you" talk. Why must everything be a comparison to you? I'm smarter than you, I behave less like an ass than you, I complain less than you, I lie less than you, I use more ignorant, bigotted, racist comments than you...Everything seems to be a comparison for you. It gets rather annoying and seems very juvenile. Get over yourself. Better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

     
  • posted at 3:29 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    I guess Rich Hanner is getting an early start in his approval of regulating the internet as reported on Drudge.

     
  • posted at 3:29 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    Hey LodiJoe, I was born and raised in Lodi, as are several of my friends that have been at rallies and meetings to fight to keep your religion out of our government. Not every native Lodian agrees with you. So you are flat wrong with your new-to-Lodi rant. Pick a new group of people to blame. Immigrants, whether to Lodi or to the US, are not the source of your/our problems.

     
  • posted at 3:16 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    Rich Hanner,You are aware that offensive speech is protected under the first ammendment?That being said. Being so bold that you are, perhaps you should take up a job in the Dearborn, MI area where the authorities are up in arms how to quell the hatespeech perpetuated by the Muslim community there. Or are you not aware that Sharia Law is an imminent threat to this country? You really need to pick up Robert Spencer's book "Stealth Jihad".

     
  • posted at 3:01 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    I see the LNS has a new strategy tokeep commenters from blogging on certain articles. Rich Hanner, I know a lot more about the Muslim culture than you do. Do you even know who Robert Spencer or Walid Shoebat is?Your little game will only make people more enraged.

     
  • posted at 2:42 am on Fri, Oct 23, 2009.

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    I think it would have taken a heck of a lot of courage and strength to stand up to the vicious threats and attacks on character by those that were trying to strong arm the city council into taking prayer out of CC meetings.

     
  • posted at 7:07 pm on Thu, Oct 22, 2009.

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    now* not know

     
  • posted at 7:06 pm on Thu, Oct 22, 2009.

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    oh no! rumor has it obamas a muslim what do we ignorant lodians do know! Same sex marriage oh now you better not mention abortion no no noooo.... all of this stuff has one thing in common other than the obama thing it all has to do with religion. We should let gay people get married who cares if its right or wrong, because freedom of religion and stat. And those who a pose abortion because of religious ideals c'mon......... and why wont it let me comment os the muslim lunch story ugh.... im disappointed in you Galt guy, really im surprised your not calling these lodians ignorant hicks....... in conclusion tear grapebowl build retirement housing there you will get much more money out of it and you will create jobs.... wait isnt that why we built the grape bowl in the first place to create much needed jobs in lodi.

     
  • posted at 2:29 pm on Thu, Oct 22, 2009.

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    LodiFreeThinker... Ah yes, the wisdom of a liberal mind. Liberals slay me, they preach tolerance until it goes against what they think then they scream the loudest.... Lodian, are you really LodiFreeThinkers puppet?

     
  • posted at 8:50 am on Thu, Oct 22, 2009.

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    LodiJoe: We can evolve as a people and do better.

     
  • posted at 8:29 am on Thu, Oct 22, 2009.

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    LodiJoe, your "if you don't like then move" attitude is not the kind of thing that makes for a successful community.We are nation built on diversity. Different people, from different places, with different ideas. We can either celebrate our diversity as a strength, or let it divide us as a weakness. Clearly you choose the latter.

     
  • posted at 7:20 am on Thu, Oct 22, 2009.

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    LodiFreeThinker. A gifted mind reader are ya? You don't say much on your own, just blog to critize others? I am tired of people moving to Lodi and demanding we change to their way or what they percieve as the "right" way. New residents that bought houses close to Lodi Lake bitched until we couldn't have boat races on the 4th of July, a lodi tradition for many years. Now they demand stopping invocations at city council meetings. Next they will demand our students stop sayiing the pledge of allegance in school? I still say if you don't like Lodi or what goes on here, I will personally wave as you move elsewhere.

     
  • posted at 6:43 am on Thu, Oct 22, 2009.

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    No comments?mp wrote on Oct 21, 2009 1:38 PM:" "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."Creator? It appears our Founding Fathers clearly referrenced a "Higher Power". To see the word "Creator" in the Preamble to the United States Declaration of Independence and say there is no place for God aka "Creator" in Government is a weak leg to stand on.

     
  • posted at 12:47 pm on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    LodiFreeThinker: Wow! Your right.

     
  • posted at 12:42 pm on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    From the article (citing the new city prayer policy) "Anyone who violates the requirements could have their prayer interrupted and terminated by the mayor, and the person will be barred from giving any invocations at future meetings."So, uncensored isn't really uncensored after all? Once again the council finds itself in the position of being the "prayer police".This weakens the supposed protections of the new policy and keeps the city in harms way. And it's a waste of time.

     
  • posted at 11:08 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    mp: "FREE LEGAL REPRESENTATION"?Not free.

     
  • posted at 8:52 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    mp wrote on Oct 21, 2009 1:22 PM:" If anyone paid attention to the meeting, they would know the city council has FREE LEGAL REPRESENTATION all the way to the Supreme Court if required. No cost to the taxpayer! "The offer of free representation means nothing if the city loses a lawsuit. Also, the ADF only promised representation if the council adopted their policy verbatim, which I don't think they will.

     
  • posted at 8:38 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."Creator? It appears our Founding Fathers clearly referrenced a "Higher Power". To see the word "Creator" in the Preamble to the United States Declaration of Independence and say there is no place for God aka "Creator" in Government is a weak leg to stand on. Spin it however you want, but our Founding Fathers clearly believed in a "Creator" whatever His name is.

     
  • posted at 8:22 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    If anyone paid attention to the meeting, they would know the city council has FREE LEGAL REPRESENTATION all the way to the Supreme Court if required. No cost to the taxpayer!

     
  • posted at 8:15 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    This is my city, as much as it is yours. City policy should not favor you, over me, or me, over you.

     
  • posted at 8:12 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Rhodie wrote"Should the city be paralyzed with fear of lawsuit and not do anything?"No, but the city council should always consider the liability of the city, under current laws, when making policy. If the council isn't doing that, then they are ignoring part of their job, and putting us all at risk.Its not about picking what the majority wants and then standing behind that. Its about remaining neutral and keeping us from getting sued.

     
  • posted at 8:11 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Rhodie wrote"Should the city not cut any trees down just in case a "tree-hugger" might sue them?"The "tree-hugger" in this example would only have rights if the tree belonged to him, or if there was gross abuse to the environment by the city. Otherwise there would be no case, and the city should have no legitimate fear of litigation.

     
  • posted at 8:10 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Rhodie wrote"if a vegan threatened a lawsuit because offensive meat was served at a city sponsored function, should the city stop serving meat?"Well, a city sponsored function is a far cry from an official government meeting, so different rules apply. Also, there isn't a constitutional argument that the government would be required to remain neutral on the subject of dietary choices. In the case of religion, there is such a requirement.That being said, I would hope that the city, in planning a menu for a function, would consider having enough variety that people with varying tastes, dietary restrictions and allergies would feel included and be able to attend.

     
  • posted at 8:07 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    jnnym wrote "Why don't you petition Lodi City Council to bring in family entertainment and things for our kids to do here?"Great! Been there done that... and you? What ideas do you have? I'm serious.

     
  • posted at 8:05 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    jnnym wrote on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 PM:"There are a lot of more serious things going on in Lodi than someone saying a prayer. Why don't these groups do something about the drugs, drinking and gangs in this town. Why don't they stop children from being abused by adults."jnnym: Please tell us how you know that this is not already being done.

     
  • posted at 8:02 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Rhodie wrote "I'd rather have leaders who are stronger than that"I think it would have taken a heck of a lot of courage and strength to stand up to the vicious threats and attacks on character by those that were trying to strong arm the city council into keeping prayer at the meetings.

     
  • posted at 7:59 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Rhodie: You are belittling prayer by equating it to meat.

     
  • posted at 7:34 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    There are a lot of more serious things going on in Lodi than someone saying a prayer. Why don't these groups do something about the drugs, drinking and gangs in this town. Why don't they stop children from being abused by adults. Why don't you petition Lodi City Council to bring in family entertainment and things for our kids to do here? You know if you don't believe in God that is your business, but this town needs a lot more help than what you are doing. Karen Buchanan are you just looking for attention? Are you too afraid of a little thing called prayer?

     
  • posted at 7:04 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    LFT wrote "I don't think all, or even most of the citizens of Lodi would want their tax dollars being spent on lawsuits."Lodifree:So if a vegan threatened a lawsuit because offensive meat was served at a city sponsored function, should the city stop serving meat?Should the city not cut any trees down just in case a "tree-hugger" might sue them?Should the city be paralyzed with fear of lawsuit and not do anything?In today's society lawsuits are too common place. Lawsuits have become a strong-arm negotiation device, "do it or we'll sue you". Do you really want to support a system that responds to every lawsuit by caving? I'd rather have leaders who are stronger than that.And since there is no "official" religion represented by the prayer/call to service at the city council but rather open to any religion (personally I think it should be only those INSIDE Lodi city limits) then there is no state sponsored religion so the issue is moot, other than that it is offensive to some.

     
  • posted at 6:15 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Lodifree-Yes there is a word for that. It's called the Majority.

     
  • posted at 6:13 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Darwin-God could cast plague upon them. Or has he? Hmm... H1N1? HIV?No one ever answered my "In God we trust" comment. And don't sit there and say they didn't specify which God, that's moronic. You're better than that arn't you? Don't sacrafice your credibility by saying that this Government wasn't founded in Christianity. Find a new argument because that one isn't going to fly.

     
  • posted at 4:41 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    LodiJoe wrote on Oct 21, 2009 7:06 AM:"She has a constitutional right to move if she doesn't like Lodi or what goes on here. "LodiJoe thinks everyone who is different from him should move out of town. Isn't there a word for people like that?

     
  • posted at 4:20 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    rantravesPlease tell us you don't believe everything you see depicted on tv.

     
  • posted at 4:02 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    ordinarycitizen wrote on Oct 20, 2009 11:10 PM:"Separation of church and state was for the sole purpose of protecting churches and pastors from government intrusion."You are correct that the subject of that letter referred to the protection of churches from the government. I disagree however, that the "sole" purpose of the separation was to protect churches. Separation goes both ways, government is protected from religion and religion is protected from government.I cited that letter in response to a post that put forth the argument that since the words "separation of church and state" don't exist in the constitution, the concept doesn't exist. Its just a silly argument, and Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists where he uses the term is the most obvious example of the amendment being interpreted that way.

     
  • posted at 3:50 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Aarinaga wrote on Oct 20, 2009 10:56 PM:"Does this also mean that you agree with other facets of Jefferson's life and leisure. Iligitimate children? Alcohol abuse? Slavery?"Your argument is infantile, don't be a child... I didn't say, I agree with Jefferson on this point, therefore I hold him up as a perfect example of humanity and agree with 100% of what he did and said... I didn't say that. If I had, then you would have a point. Instead, you are just being ridiculous.

     
  • posted at 3:47 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    reading wrote "Just understand, that as you and your lawyers continue to push this horsedung, thus costing ALL OF US in the long run....you come across to most as nothing more than leeches. You will be a hero to a few, but most normal folks will remember you as leeches on our tax dollars."Well, if the city's policy is determined to be illegal, it will be the city council's fault that we are in trouble, not the people that called for inclusion, neutrality and adherence to the Constitution.Also, if "normal" folks remember the people on my side as leeches, then I am very glad that I am in the minority. If normal means being a close minded, xenophobic zealot... then I'm glad I'm not that. I should think most people would hope not to be that.

     
  • posted at 3:39 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Rhodie wrote "Are you saying that people's beliefs and faith should be a secondary consideration to monetary considerations?"An individual can choose whether to put their money or their beliefs first. The city council, on the other hand is not an individual. Their job is to represent all the citizens of Lodi. I don't think all, or even most of the citizens of Lodi would want their tax dollars being spent on lawsuits.The city had a clear opportunity to eliminate this risk entirely, in this case. They chose not to. They are being reckless with my money, and I don't appreciate it.

     
  • posted at 3:31 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Stop with the anti-prayer crap already! Look forward people. Soon there be an invocation of Satan; clearly that will be an occasion worth noting. I've seen Satanic cults depicted on TV -- kind-of wacky -- but now we get to experience it 1st hand. C'mon what could be better than that?

     
  • posted at 3:23 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Pooreastside said " Ever notice that when Darwin Lives comments that those who don't agree with his ideas are "closed minded.""If the shoe fits.Also: No one has been able to state how "God" will help our City Council do the business of the City? Mostly because "God" cannot do a damn thing about the City Council!

     
  • posted at 2:06 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    Ms. Buchanan is most likely of the same caliber as people who build houses at the end of the runway at a busy airport and gripe about how much noise there is and demand the airport be moved. She has a constitutional right to move if she doesn't like Lodi or what goes on here.

     
  • posted at 1:04 am on Wed, Oct 21, 2009.

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    extraordinarilycrazycitizen wrote on Oct 20, 2009 11:10PM:"...And contrary to some rather erroneous thinking, Thomas Jefferson respected Jesus Christ...The Jefferson letter re: separation of church and state has been taken out of context in order to propagate an anti-Christ agenda."Perhaps reading some of Jefferson's work might clear up some of the ridiculous pap you have repeated, crazycitizen. Remember the Kimono Bloggers' Rule; when you repeat things as blatantly untrue as you have, you must be either ignorant or dishonest. You don't want to be known as ignorant or dishonest, do you?

     
  • posted at 6:30 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

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    Ms. Buchanan said, "I didn't go to the council meeting to go to church, and so that whole arrangement seemed just totally out of place," Buchanan said on the show. "I felt uncomfortable with being in a church service and being asked to bow my head and to stand and to show respect to a God who is not part of who I am." I guess you haven't ever been to a church, have you? I think if you would walk inside any one of the church services here in town, you would get a clearer understanding between church which entails: singing, worship, preaching, sharing testimonies, and a whole plethora of activities, and an innocuous prayer maybe a minute in length before a city council meeting is called to order. Go inside of a church and observe what goes on there, and then compare the two. I just don't understand your problem. If you don't believe in God, that's your right, but why try to change a city's tradition because you don't believe in prayer, or it makes you feel uncomfortable? Prayer isn't going to harm you, Ms. Buchanan.

     
  • posted at 6:10 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

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    The letter Jefferson wrote re: separation of church and state was referring to government not being able to control churches. He was stating that the government in no way had the right to tell a pastor what to do in his church, what to preach, or to govern who the pastor should even be. All things that the King of England had been doing. Separation of church and state was for the sole purpose of protecting churches and pastors from government intrusion. The reason why our nation is even a nation is because the Pilgrims came over to be free - free from government intruding in church affairs and telling them how to worship. And contrary to some rather erroneous thinking, Thomas Jefferson respected Jesus Christ and was the first President to instill the chaplaincy in the military, and in fact, encouraged soldiers and military personnel to pray. The Jefferson letter re: separation of church and state has been taken out of context in order to propagate an anti-Christ agenda.

     
  • posted at 5:56 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

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    Free Thinker: You said that "I agree with Thomas Jefferson's interpretation a bit more than yours." Does this also mean that you agree with other facets of Jefferson's life and leisure. Iligitimate children? Alcohol abuse? Slavery? Also of note is that people call themselves "Christians" but want to rally people to remove Christ from anything and everything. That sounds like a ruse to me. Didn't Judas do the same things. Also didn't the Bible (which is where the hotly debated Jesus was most prevelant) say "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev. 3:16. Sounds awful luke warm to me to say you are a Christian but don't want anything to do with Christ. So your either a poser or in big trouble with the one you call God. I'm just saying though. Could be worse but no one likes food that is in between. Think about it. Most of you "Christians" root harder for your favorite sports team than for Christ. What gives?

     
  • posted at 5:39 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

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    Quick Question? Ms. Buchanan lives in Lodi right? But that Diskin Guy according to previous articles was a Lodi Business owner, not a resident. Now for people who are offended by anyone who believes in God, what did God do to you? I find it funny that people are so zealous about wanting to avoid "religious" persecution but have taken that to point that it has become it's own religion. Then many of you state you don't believe in anything. That is a lie. Because it means you are liars or stupid. If you ever sat in a chair you "believed" it would hold your weight. If you sat in a chair and didn't think it would hold your weight than you are stupid for such actions. Not all of you say you don't believe, but for those who do (and remember your comments are now in cyberspace) say such things you have painted yourselves into a corner of sorts. So you decide. Stupid or Liars. Inquiring minds want to know. LOL

     
  • posted at 4:32 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

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    Does anyone remember that guy from Elk Grove who wanted to have the words "One Nation Under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance? Anyone, anyone? Exactly...... The pledge is still the same and the world has not fallen into a black hole. The world is a scary place, sometimes you are going to be uncomfortable. Can't fight city hall? Just claim they make you feel all oogy inside, maybe you will get your water paid for a year.

     
  • posted at 3:53 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

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    The continued attempts to rewrite history, and claim that the United States was founded upon Christianity are laughable.For more information, check out http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

     
  • posted at 3:46 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

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    LodiFreeThinker,I have no dog in this fight, nothing to get over, my opinion is neutral on this entire circus, other than the ending dollar cost. Most citizens don't care if you chant vodoo or have a moment of silence. This is all between you people on both sides, and a few bloggers. You have all collectively made a mockery out of yourselves and Lodi, trying to blame the CC in the process. (Albeit, yes they do have their problems...but that's another issue.)Just understand, that as you and your lawyers continue to push this horsedung, thus costing ALL OF US in the long run....you come across to most as nothing more than leeches. You will be a hero to a few, but most normal folks will remember you as leeches on our tax dollars.Good luck.

     
  • posted at 3:35 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

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    According to the following site, Madison never made that statement.http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

     
  • posted at 3:30 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    "Our city cannot afford this, but they will have to find a way if the council insists on putting us in harms way, the way they have.Correct me if Im wrong, as I'm not a legal scholar, but I don't believe anyone has ever sued their city for NOT having prayer... whereas cities have been sued many times because they HAVE prayer."Lodifreethinker: Are you saying that people's beliefs and faith should be a secondary consideration to monetary considerations?

     
  • posted at 3:14 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Your "quote" from Madison is not found in any of his writings. It's authenticity is in dispute. If you have the source, please post it.

     
  • posted at 3:09 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    I see no reason to remove that depiction from the building. It does not promote any religion.

     
  • posted at 3:08 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Have you been to the Supreme Court Building in Washington DC, Lodieye? If you had, you would know that Moses stands together with Confucius and Solon, representing the concept of law inherited from Eastern Civilization. The tablets Moses is holding are blank.

     
  • posted at 3:02 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Something to keep in mind: "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."James Madison

     
  • posted at 2:59 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    On the outside of the United States Supreme Court building there is a figure of Moses holding the ten commandments, Should we rebuild Ms. Buchannan?

     
  • posted at 1:00 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Caliwings wrote on Oct 20, 2009 5:52 PM:" The people of this City with open minds to other religon's are not fooled for one second on this issue. It has never been about RELIGON... it has been about RACE. "Caliwings, Lodi is not without it's race issues, but I think your wrong about this one. It is a turf war based on religion, not on race.Do you have any evidence or reasoning other than the "SUB-TEXT and UNDERLYING meanings"?

     
  • posted at 12:56 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    After reading some of this slop, as usual YAWN

     
  • posted at 12:55 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    voter, well said. In fact some of the posts below are from people who report to be Christians and simply want to eliminate this as an issue for our city.Our city cannot afford this, but they will have to find a way if the council insists on putting us in harms way, the way they have.Correct me if Im wrong, as I'm not a legal scholar, but I don't believe anyone has ever sued their city for NOT having prayer... whereas cities have been sued many times because they HAVE prayer.

     
  • posted at 12:52 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    The people of this City with open minds to other religon's are not fooled for one second on this issue. It has never been about RELIGON... it has been about RACE. Southern Bapist churches... anyone see many of those around? How about Muslim temples... not many of those either. What about a Buddhist temples... yeah... but tucked away in a small part of El Lodi. Trust me ladies and gentleman... RE-THINK what this argument is really about (and get your brains working on SUB-TEXT and UNDERLYING meanings). It isn't just what, who, or how it is said... it is also WHY it is said. Why is the council and members of this city truly opposed to removing "Christian" prayer?

     
  • posted at 12:51 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    --correctionThe fact that I think your beliefs are silly, DOES not mean I disrespect your right to hold them.

     
  • posted at 12:51 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    ra, it's interesting that you view these posts as "anti-christian". I don't see the evidence for that. How many of the posters mentioned Christianity or stated that they wanted to abolish Christian prayer or the Christian religion? You seem confused about the issue. The question before the council was not "for Jesus" or "against Jesus", but it's always interesting how narrow-minded and self-centered folks distort reality.

     
  • posted at 12:50 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    oh, and I assure you, I am not an "anti-Christian bigot"I am a Freethinker, meaning I choose what I believe based on my own reasoning, and not according to any dogma, except perhaps my own.The fact that I think your beliefs are silly, just not mean I disrespect your right to hold them.

     
  • posted at 12:47 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    ra says "The Constitution says NOTHING about separation of church and state"You are incorrect. The term "separation of church and state" is not present, but in fact the 1st amendment to the Constitution says everything it needs to on the subject."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"This means, like you said, that we cannot have an official state religion.It also means our government cannot favor one religion over another. It cannot favor non-religion over religion, and it cannot favor religion over non-religion.Thomas Jefferson, in his letter to the Danbury Baptists in 1802, called this "building a wall of separation between Church & State."So, you are correct. The words separation of church and state, are not in there, but the meaning is definitely there. I agree with Thomas Jefferson's interpretation a bit more than yours.

     
  • posted at 12:37 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    The anti-Christian bigots sure have had their word on this blog. Would similar language toward muslims, gays, etc., have been likewise tolerated? The Constitution says NOTHING about separation of church and state, it simply says that government must not form an official (meaning a single) state religion as a reaction to the Anglican church's overreaching in England. Christian haters say Christian beliefs are not welcome in the public square. I say let's look more into the belief systems of those attempting to intimidate Christians out of the public square. My guess is they fall in line with Stalin and other "open minded" genocidal maniacs. Keep the public square open to all, yes, even Christians. Muslims, Buddhists and others should be welcome too.

     
  • posted at 12:14 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    StinkeyPete said "The First Amendment states "Freedom OF Religion", not "Freedom FROM Religion""Actually it says neither, and means both. Have you read it?

     
  • posted at 12:11 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Stinkeypete wrote "We get all bent out of shape over a simple prayer before a meeting, but don't make a fuss over the drug problem in our schools, on our streets, in our neighborhoods."stinkey: If you think prayer is no big deal then why worry about it. Just pray on your own. And who says we don't make a fuss over the drug problem in our schools, on our streets, in our neighborhoods? Just because someone is taking issue here does not mean that is THE ONLY issue they ever address.

     
  • posted at 12:08 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    jay dubb wrote "As a city we absolutly cannot afford having this issue go to court."I agree with you. And the city should have thought ahead, and done the right thing, so as to not end up in a lawsuit.

     
  • posted at 12:06 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    We get all bent out of shape over a simple prayer before a meeting, but don't make a fuss over the drug problem in our schools, on our streets, in our neighborhoods. Our local media makes a big deal over "Illegal Alien" costumes, but it's okay for the Halloween stores to sell Male Genitalia masks and hooker costumes for our young girls.When are we going to get a clue as to what is truly important?The First Amendment states "Freedom OF Religion", not "Freedom FROM Religion". It was designed to keep the government from demanding that it's citizens belong to a specific church as England had done. It was designed to allow all religions to worship in the USA, something that never would happen in England during that century.We sure have turned it into something the farthest from our founding fathers minds.....

     
  • posted at 12:02 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    I personally do not mind if there are prayers before the Council meetings, or if there are not. However, I would be VERY upset if this goes to court and the efforts and time of our council members and city attorney are used to fight the lawsuit. This will certainly cost the city MONEY we do not not have to fight this. As a city we absolutly cannot afford having this issue go to court. Period.

     
  • posted at 12:00 pm on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Rhodie: You’re really reaching here in an attempt to make your case. I did not post a Biblical quote (Matthew 6:6) to support being ashamed of prayer (to the contrary), but I’m pretty sure you know that already. It was, in fact, a quote from the Bible. Maybe you don’t know this Bible verse. You may think that all of those who want to stand in front of the cc and pray at the city meetings, as well as the groups/people threatening the cc are all just about praying and not the show, but I’m not convinced. I think this (the show) is evident by the circus that this whole thing has become. And you have the right to celebrate your faith with friends, family and strangers all you like, but I still think it is crucial to keep church and state separate… just as our forefathers intended. Of course Christians should be seen in public, Rhodie, just not presented for show. Our disagreement on how prayer should be handled at cc meetings is exactly why we need to keep church and state separate. The cc meetings are for all citizens and then you can go to church.

     
  • posted at 11:24 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    "During the invocations, one pastor has given a "bigoted rant" against a citizen"A "bigoted rant"? From a Lodi pastor? I'm shocked!!

     
  • posted at 11:21 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    pooreastside said "If the majority of the people wanted to chant before the meetings, so be it. "The meeting is not supposed to be about what the majority wants. Its supposed to be neutral and inclusive of everyone. Why is that so hard to understand?

     
  • posted at 11:00 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    I think all of us who support Ms. Buchanan and believe as she does, i.e., that prayer has no business in the workings of the government, should contact the Freedom from Religion Foundation and offer to assist with the lawsuit. That's what I'm going to do. I'm a Christian, but that's my personal business and my beliefs have no legitimate business in the workplace or at a government forum. If a lawsuit is the only way to educate our ignorant City Council, I say, "Bring on the litigation! Use my tax dollars!"

     
  • posted at 10:34 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    reading wrote on Oct 20, 2009 10:04 AM:"This is similar, IMO to a few disabled people purposely seeking out non ADA compliant business's and sicking the attorneys on them to make money."Yes, she purposely sought a town to live in based on the fact that it wasn't following its prayer policy, and that its actions violated the law. Get over yourself... The city needs to be sued. It had a chance to make a policy that was inclusive and neutral, and it decided to cave to the majority opinion. The only course of action at that point is the court system.

     
  • posted at 10:14 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Matt 6 clearly states that you shouldn't be like the hypocrites praying in public to be SEEN, That is using prayer as a way to attempt to gain prestige. Instead prayer should be done with no intention of social benifit for self.I look at it this way; using Matt 6:6 as some do here then then by their interpritation of scripture Jesus himself was wrong for praying in public as he did so many times. He talked about God the Father infront of the ruling government of the time before his cruxifiction. So if it is wrong to pray in public as Lodian keeps bringing up, then why did Jesus do it?

     
  • posted at 10:07 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodian wrote " Matthew 6:6: "When you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen."Matt 18:2020 For where two or three meet in my name, I am there among them.'I guess it comes down to that I would rather celebrate my faith with friends, family and strangers than, as Lodian encourages, hide in shame in a closet. It's a good thing the early leaders of Christianity were more like me and outgoing than afraid to be seen as Christian in public like others here.

     
  • posted at 8:51 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    T&C like your posts. You show a bit of humor but get your points across. If the majority of the people wanted to chant before the meetings, so be it. I would just step outside until they were done. What is the big deal anyway. I think everyone needs to give it a rest for a little while.

     
  • posted at 8:43 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    There are so many "Other" very important issues that Ms. Buchanan could have directed her efforts at, with regards to "Helping a Church, a food bank, a senior center, a nursing home, the Lodi Hospital"! Where is your "Spirit of Volunteerism Ms. Buchanan? Costing the City more money, threats of lawsuits solely for your amusement! Shame on you!

     
  • posted at 8:41 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Ever notice that when Darwin Lives comments that those who don't agree with his ideas are "closed minded."

     
  • posted at 8:38 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    "No one is dragging your butt to church Ms. Buchanan or anyone else! Nor do you have to stand up and bow your head in reverence. If You don't like it, "Don't Whine" just to get publicity! Simply step outside Ms. Buchanan. your a big girl, you can handle it."

     
  • posted at 8:36 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    To Jenn H:"HERO" is Not the "First word" that comes to my mind about Ms. Buchanan!

     
  • posted at 8:34 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Ms. Buchanan has WAY more "Spare time" then I do!

     
  • posted at 8:33 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    "For those who NOT in support of removing prayer from city council meetings, please DO NOT join Lodi United. Do Not Visit www.LodiUnited.org or search for us on Facebook."

     
  • posted at 8:04 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Inquisitor: Bread pudding sounds really good right now! :-)

     
  • posted at 8:03 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Matthew 6:6: "When you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen."

     
  • posted at 8:02 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    I think we need to all take a break and read Gwin's article on bread pudding.

     
  • posted at 8:00 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Oct 20, 2009 12:48 PM:"Lodian, Mazie's comment was incredibly ugly and ignorant. In other words, a typical Mazie post."I figured as much.

     
  • posted at 7:58 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    wsdavis wrote "To all of you who don't want prayer. Who are you going to be talking to when you are on deaths door and hoping for another chance just to stay alive and see your family grow up."Are you equating Lodi city business with being on ones deathbed?

     
  • posted at 7:48 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Lodian, Mazie's comment was incredibly ugly and ignorant. In other words, a typical Mazie post.

     
  • posted at 7:47 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Galtguy,The founders were hardly religious, more to the point they were enlightened by humanitarian principles not religious ones.

     
  • posted at 7:43 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    gail1 wrote "you worry about a little thing like praying."Personally, I don't think of prayer as a little thing. If it is such a little thing to you then why get all crazy upset about Ms. Buchanan's opinion and desire to keep church and state separate?

     
  • posted at 7:40 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Galtguy,God does not imply Christianity.

     
  • posted at 7:39 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    I guess mazie's comments were pretty bad again as they look to have been removed.

     
  • posted at 7:36 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    LodiJoe wrote "Ms. Buchanan, what are you going to do for attention next?"Wow, LodiJoe, is this your best attempt at rebuttal? lol!

     
  • posted at 7:20 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    .She said she did it because she "felt uncomfortable" being around a prayer.There is not Consitutional Right to avoid feeling Uncomfortable.This is a symptom of the mealy mouthed, softies that our culture has raised into semi-adult-hood.

     
  • posted at 7:16 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    ael-You sound like a smart guy, so how do you explain all of the references to God in many forms of American Government (currency, etc...)?"In God We Trust" how do you folks get by that one?Darwin- Easy buddy, don't be so hostile. I'm neither a big fan or a big opponent of either side. But you can't deny certain very simple facts that this country is based and founded on Christianity. Our founding Fathers were very religious folks, to deny this fact is being intellectualy dishonest.

     
  • posted at 7:05 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    wsdavis, I'm genuinely impressed by your close-minded anger. Bravissimo! Your rant on "my" god not only disregards any experience with death anyone else has had, but it also blasts those who believe that America--as wonderful as it is--can still be an even better place. Oh yes, and the closing damnation was a nice touch.

     
  • posted at 6:44 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Galtguy,When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no single religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention religion, except in exclusionary terms. The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not once.

     
  • posted at 6:36 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Galtguy: I think I stopped believing in Santa Claus at age 5. I only believed because my parents TOLD me to...then, I used my brain and figured things out. Duh.There you go again...making all "non-believers" a unit. For the record, I'm as sure of myself as much as you are of yours. I know it may be difficult to grasp, but just THINK first...Jihad is bad, too. But, as I have said before, I'm focused on the article that we are commenting on...

     
  • posted at 6:03 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    So Darwin, do/did you believe in Santa Claus?You stated, "There is absolutely, no place for SANCTIONED prayer before meetings" Do you think this should have been the case when this country was founded? Because we both know it wasn't (look and read our currency).Also you non-believers are pretty sure of yourselves arn't you? So I have to ask, are the Muslims wrong too? What about the Buhdists? And all the other religions out there?One more thing, instead of focusing on prayer in a mild mannered council meeting, why not have this lady protest the Muslims and their Jihad?

     
  • posted at 5:51 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Let me ask everyone; is there anybody out there who doesn't believe this Country was founded on Christianity?So what this argument boils down to is why those in favor of ending the prayer want to change the status quo. So why is that?

     
  • posted at 5:40 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    WOW - wsdavis; could you be any MORE closed-minded? Just because you "believe" in your higher power, does not make it true. You naturally assume that everyone "believes"? Have you ever actually been outside of Lodi?If you want to pray and go to church and believe in the tooth fairy, I don't really care; that's a personal issue. I don't go around calling you an idiot or say you are wasting your time. If YOU believe, great. I'm glad for you. But the CITY is not a "person". The CITY does not have a religious belief. There is absolutely, no place for SANCTIONED prayer before meetings. Though, I suppose it would be comical if the council started doing some low, murmuring chanting before the meetings...Just do the business. the City is a business. Make it work. Keep your religion at home.

     
  • posted at 5:30 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Maybe the City Council should have thought of who will pay their legal fees before they started praying. Maybe the churches they belong to will foot the bill. I really don't care if they pray or not. But, if this costs the tax payers more money then I will.

     
  • posted at 5:27 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    To all of you who don't want prayer. Who are you going to be talking to when you are on deaths door and hoping for another chance just to stay alive and see your family grow up. Yes you will be "PRAYING" whether it is to GOD or "YOUR HIGHER POWER", so give it a rest and if you don't want to pray just shut your mouth. Remember "WHO IS YOUR MAKER?" You wouldn't even be here on this earth if it wasn't for your GOD or HIGHER POWER. Don't you people have anything better to do? You mess with GOD or YOUR HIGHER POWER, you won't be joining either one of them when you pass on. You will go where it is VERY HOT. My goodness grow up and find more important issues to fight about.

     
  • posted at 5:04 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Hopefully the taxpayers won't have to foot the bill in court costs. The already cash strapped city will have to waste more money in court. The people who brought this up in the first place should pay both sides legal fees.This is similar, IMO to a few disabled people purposely seeking out non ADA compliant business's and sicking the attorneys on them to make money.They should all be ashamed of themselves.

     
  • posted at 5:03 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    pooreastside: actually, I have MANY good ideas, but you are too closed-minded to see them. Feed the poor and homeless? That's now MY responsibility, too. How about this: I'll be responsible for ME and you be responsible for YOU and we'll all be okay. You go ahead and start a "prayer at your business" club - just do it BEFORE you get to work. No big deal. And, if YOU think a little prayer will do me good, then YOU can pray for me! My life is in my hands, no one else's...And, we could have a LONG debate on your statement that "nobody was ever harmed by it", but that's not the point of this article.

     
  • posted at 4:49 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Shame on Laura Buchanan and Annie Gaylor both. Our council meetings had enough problems without them stirring up more. What's next? Don't you two have anything better to do? How about jumping on the bandwagon to feed the poor and homeless instead.I agree with Silver1sprg, commentator, and Gail 1 totally. As far as DarwinLives, you had one good idea. Prayer before work. Think I'll start a foundation for that. Give me a break. A little prayer may do you some good, nobody was ever harmed by it.

     
  • posted at 4:40 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Somehow, I do not think "attention" was her goal. You guys are funny. Basically, the City Council needs to get off of their collective butts and perform the "business of the city". No "God" is going to help them with the City's business. Do you have a prayer at work before everyone begins their day? Sit down, shut up and get the work done. Go home and have a prayer.

     
  • posted at 4:38 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    I applaud Ms. Buchanan's efforts to remove sectarian prayer from a government institution. Implicit endorsements of a specific religion have no place in government.

     
  • posted at 4:30 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    get a life ms. Buchanan. if you don't like what you hear don't go. you worry about a little thing like praying. don't you have anything better to do. your a joke and now all of Lodi knows who you are. well have a good laugh with coffee in the morning.

     
  • posted at 4:21 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Ms. Buchanan has evidently been misled to go this far. What a joke.

     
  • posted at 4:15 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Like Ms. Buchanan, I'm a transplant to Lodi. For the past three years I've called Lodi home. This is the town where my wife was born and raised and we love it here. It has a home town spirit. My hopes of living in a smaller community where everyone knows each other and there is much less political bull**** going on. I guess Lodi has the same issues and problems as a big city. There is always someone in the crowd that will get offended for any little thing. The kind of society we've become is sickening. SO WHAT if you don't like prayer being said in a town hall meeting. No one is dragging your butt to church, nor do you have to stand up and bow your head in reverence. You don't like it, step outside. Ms. Buchanan, your a big girl, you can handle it, I'm sure. Like LodiJoe said, what's next? Singing the National Anthem? Stop wasting the city's time and gaining publicity for yourself. The Lodi City Council has enough problems to deal with, namely themselves.

     
  • posted at 2:42 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    With comments like those from Mazie and LodiJoe, it's no wonder that Karen did not want to come forward.Seeking attention? Really? She's remained anonymous since May and only came forward after the council made their decision.

     
  • posted at 2:39 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    What do Mazie and LodiJoe not understand about the meaning of Separation of Church and State? Some of your comments do sound like threatening.Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.[2]Reflecting a concept often credited in its original form to the English political philosopher John Locke [3], the phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists, in which he referred to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state. The phrase was quoted by the United States Supreme Court first in 1878, and then in a series of cases starting in 1947. This led to increased popular and political discussion of the concept.

     
  • posted at 2:33 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Ms. Buchanan is a local hero and I applaud not only her desire to live out her conscience, but come forward. That's not an easy thing to do in a place like Lodi & she needs to know that many of her fellow Lodians stand behind and beside her. Bring on the lawsuit. The City Council has behaved recklessly and without regard to guiding legal precedents. They should all be impeached after they vote the shameful policy they adopted. As for Schwabauer, he should be removed, as well. He should have refused to draft such an unconscionable policy, in accordance with his ethical responsibility to uphold the law. He is not fit to be a city attorney. Yet again, Lodi city government is an embarrassment

     
  • posted at 2:31 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Ms. Buchanan, what are you going to do for attention next? Boycott singing of the National Anthem at sporting events? Get a life. Worry about what is happening to our country, worry about seniors going to bed hungry because they can't afford essentials of life. Worry about losing our rights and worry about our government re-writiing our Constitution. Wake up before you have lost all your freedoms.

     
  • posted at 2:04 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    Thanks for making the case for Buchanan.

     
  • posted at 1:21 am on Tue, Oct 20, 2009.

    Posts:

    For those in support of removing prayer from city council meetings, please join Lodi United. Visit www.LodiUnited.org or search for us on Facebook.

     
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