Indexes
February 8th, 2010
February 6th, 2010
February 5th, 2010
February 4th, 2010
February 3rd, 2010
February 2nd, 2010
February 1st, 2010
The following stories have received the most reader comments during the last 7 days.
- Will terrorists be given Miranda warnings? (75)
- Lodi Unified School District president issues warning to speakers over cuts (64)
- President Obama's first year (45)
- Many reject the politics of 'no' (45)
- Islamic symbol in mosaic — what is all the fuss? (44)
- Writer comments on Neely column (42)
- The Home Depot hopes to join Costco at Reynolds Ranch (41)
- Time to shed the convenient sham of 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy (34)
- We need to conduct respectful conversations (30)
- Tasered suspect claims he is Yosemite Sam (25)
ADVERTISEMENT
Obama is not a moderate
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:13 AM PST
Apparently President Obama has still not provided anyone with his birth certificate, which would prove one way or another if he were really a citizen of America.
His grandmother said she has seen the certificate and he was supposedly born in the Hawaiian Islands. However, he should be required to show his birth certificate at least so he is in accordance with the Constitution. He has been known to trample all over the U.S. Constitution, so what else can we expect?
During his presidency, Bill Clinton and Hillary were called the Bonnie and Clyde of American politics, exposing their numerous misdeeds to the American voters. If the Clintons were Bonnie and Clyde, then Obama must be a candidate for Dr. Jekyll and President Hyde.
Obama campaigned as a moderate, a uniter, a man seeking change, but we are seeing him as a radical, left-wing and power-hungry Chicago politician. Just look at the tax cheats he is surrounding himself with in his administration. He has abused our economic crisis to start his redistribution of our wealth by dictating a ridiculous bailout, along with his so called "stimulus package," which is a disaster.
We now have a federal debt around $9 trillion, but with the unfounded liabilities that Obama has promised our nation, we and future generations will be in the hole for about $54 trillion — or more than $180,000 for every man, woman and child in America.
It would seem that people are finally beginning to see that Obama's actions and the shady people he has surrounded himself with might not be what they voted for. I hope so.
I have heard many of Obama's speeches, but have never heard him use the words freedom and or liberty. I guess he doesn't believe in those words.
Sam West
Acampo
Search for Ads 
Today’s Print Ads 
RSS Feeds
Reader Feedback
edumacation wrote on Nov 24, 2009 8:46 PM:
Now sister Pelosi has a plan to charge us INDIVIDUALS with a WAR TAX--- a DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAR tax. I thought liberals like William Ayers and other Obamites were ANTI-WAR?
I bet MR Haliburton --I mean Cheney and the Chimp are laughing at this one. Pelosi and Obongo want a WAR tax, beacause they gave all the rest of our tax money away to pay back the BANKSTERS who bankrolled the progressives into power. It looks like a soap opera with a Kenyan connection--I mean Sotelo- Indonesian connection, I mean a Hawaiian connection.
It doesn't matter--he isn't smart enough to figure it out. What else do you expect from our own affirmative action President? "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 24, 2009 6:14 PM:
They are finding it more and more difficult to defend obama. His approval in the polls has been plummeting recently. And, I haven't heard anyone explain why government run healthcare is the best solution to fix healthcare. "
Rhodie wrote on Nov 24, 2009 5:39 PM:
Aimee wrote on Nov 24, 2009 4:32 PM:
It just bothers me (and a whole lot of other Americans) that he can associate with these people, yet say that he is distanced with their belief systems. it is possible, but hard to contemplate. "
Aimee wrote on Nov 24, 2009 4:28 PM:
The Trilateral Commission posts its membership lists, so it is easy to verify who belongs, in regards to Obama's cabinet members. The question is, what purpose does the Commission serve? It states its purpose on the site, but the conspiracy theorists say that they are far more ominous than they would appear. This is where the belief or disbelief comes in, whether you believe what is being whispered on the side. And then there are the Bilderbergers, which is a wholly different subject entirely because they are so secretive about what they do and why they exist.
If you do a thorough search, you end up with a lot of questions, and no answers. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 24, 2009 4:17 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 24, 2009 4:07 PM:
Aimee wrote on Nov 24, 2009 1:56 PM:
http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/trilateral_commission/obama%3a_trilateral_commission_endgame_20090127110/ "
Aimee wrote on Nov 24, 2009 1:49 PM:
However, Kissinger was on CNN, at the New York Stock Exchange, stating that Obama has an obligation to usher in the New World Order. This is easily found on the internet. "
edumacation wrote on Nov 24, 2009 9:25 AM:
Kubler-Ross found that grief of dying patients follows a script: Denial, Aggression, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.
The question must NOW be asked "Do we care if the patient dies?
If we do care, do we want to treat?
We must answer these questions soon or the patient who is now in the DENIAL stage of grief will die a painful death.
Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh believe that God will solve our problems.
Will Reverend Wright and The Arch Bishop of Canterbury pray for God to heal our disease? Will that work?
Is the disease treatable?
Or, do we leave this country, like our forefathers did when they emigrated to America to escape evil?
Are "WE" the evil? Laziness, greed and the idea that "Big Brother" will fix everything?
Lets ask these questions! "
edumacation wrote on Nov 24, 2009 8:53 AM:
Do we want palliative care for the patient ? Do we put the country in a hospice to die peacefully?
Or are there treatments to stop the disease before it spreads and kills the patient? Do we want to try to save the patient or wait until its dead and start over.
Its easy to point out the cause of the disease but so what, is we don't have a treatment?
Obamites want to hasten "radiation treatment" via another middle east war. Do we really want that? "
edumacation wrote on Nov 24, 2009 8:43 AM:
We already know Willam Ayers solution, and Emanuel Rahms solution, Obama is just a figure head who gives campaign speeches every day---thats all he knows:
Larry Grathwohl, an undercover FBI agent who infiltrated The Weather Underground, claimed that Ayers wanted to overthrow the United States government. Grathwohl stated that:
"The thing the most bone chilling thing Bill Ayers said to me was that after the revolution succeeded and the government was overthrown, they believed they would have to eliminate 25 million Americans who would not conform to the new order."
Rahm is easier to understand: He wants to return to conscription for men and women not for the military, but for political indoctrination of all of us.
The question is now: What do we do about it? The doctor says "its cancer". Whats the cure? "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 24, 2009 5:33 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 23, 2009 7:46 PM:
"While on the board of a Chicago-based charity, Barack Obama helped fund a carbon trading exchange that will likely play a critical role in the cap-and-trade carbon reduction program he is now trying to push through Congress as president.”
article:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/9629 "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 23, 2009 3:02 PM:
'A racially integrated community is a chronological term timed from the entrance of the first black family to the exit of the last white family.'
'Life is a corrupting process from the time a child learns to play his mother off against his father in the politics of when to go to bed; he who fears corruption fears life.'
'Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.'
The liberals here can wonder why a lot of people are concerned about obama, or, they can simply do some quick, simple, and easy google searches. The info is there in abundance. Will you read it? "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 23, 2009 2:47 PM:
This is from Alinsky's son about Obama:
“Barack Obama’s training in Chicago by the great community organizers is showing its effectiveness,” Alinsky Jr. wrote to the Globe. “It is an amazingly powerful format, and the method of my late father always works to get the message out and get the supporters on board. When executed meticulously and thoughtfully, it is a powerful strategy for initiating change and making it really happen. Obama learned his lesson well."
Google -- Saul Alinsky Obama
Google -- Alinsky Obama marxist
Stop wondering why people are concerned about where obama is taking America. Start paying attention. Get your heads out of the sand and spend 10 minutes on google. "
rantraves wrote on Nov 21, 2009 8:50 AM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:56 PM:
Google 'Obama born Queen's Medical Center' and then google 'Obama born Kapiolani Medical Center'. There are reports that he was actually born in both of these hospitals.
Chuckle... You can also find reports that John McCain was born in both hospitals. Its nonsense, Sparky and the only people who give it any credence are people with their own agenda. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:55 PM:
" Leonard: As the "birthed" child in question, Obama has full aceess to his birth certificate, should he request a copy. His failure to produce this document in light of the intense scrutiny he has endured shows a lack of willingness to "prove" once and for all he was indeed born in Hawaii.
Obama posted his birth certificate on the web a year ago.
Satisfied? "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 20, 2009 4:26 PM:
Google 'Obama born Queen's Medical Center' and then google 'Obama born Kapiolani Medical Center'. There are reports that he was actually born in both of these hospitals.
Google 'Grandmother Obama born Africa'.
My 5 minutes are up. "
Aimee wrote on Nov 20, 2009 3:39 PM:
Aimee wrote on Nov 20, 2009 3:37 PM:
As far as the issue of children being born in other countries to parents of American citizens, there usually is no problem with determining the citizenship of the child if BOTH parents are American citizens (think Brangelina). However, when one parent is NOT an American citizen and the other is, it is a grey area whether or not the child is an American citizen when born outside the jurisdiction of the USA. This is the quandry surrounding Obama. I don't have the links currently but his paternal grandmother has insisted, from the beginning, that he was born in Africa. There is an article, written by one of the African newspapers during Obama's stint as a senator (or just before) stating that Africa is proud of its native son. Fabricated? Maybe. "
Lodian wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:23 AM:
" A very interesting argument, Mr Dockter. I wonder, does this mean that, if some woman in Kazakhstan says that you had sex with her goat, you are then obligated to prove beyond all doubt that you didn't?
I wonder how you would set about doing that?
-----------------
Brian often wants others to prove that something did not happen. This is his only defense when it comes to his wild claims. He says prove it didn't happen! His is a very childish and ignorant way to debate on any topic. In other words... he's got nothin'! "
Gator wrote on Nov 20, 2009 9:01 AM:
Also if born abroad one Parent must be a legal US Citizen no mater what
Faux News try’s to say to the contrary… "
Gator wrote on Nov 20, 2009 7:38 AM:
Al Qaeda and Hamas know the value of getting their message out in
the most used language in the world. People need to get over the Idea
that these are a bunch of Illiterate clowns. These people are very media
Savvy. Al Jazeera spreads their message all over the world.. "
Ivan Dixon wrote on Nov 20, 2009 6:16 AM:
I wonder how you would set about doing that? "
Brian wrote on Nov 20, 2009 5:18 AM:
Increasing numbers of radical Islamic Web sites are spreading al-Qaida's message in English
-Leonard,
Frankly I'm more concerned about this kind of stuff. "
Brian wrote on Nov 20, 2009 4:53 AM:
You have made this allegation over and over without providing any support. Please tell us why you believe it even though his Step Grandma in Kenya has been quoted in saying he was born in Kenya and the mainstream media has buried this each and every time it tries to make it's way up to the surface. I find it curious that it may have been Fox that broke the story and about the same time the White House was cooking up plans to boycott Fox. Now the White House has backed off. Curious. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 20, 2009 4:41 AM:
You have made this allegation over and over without providing any support. Please tell us why you believe it. "
Brian wrote on Nov 20, 2009 3:56 AM:
There appears to be a pattern here. The birthers claim that Obama has not proven his constitutional qualifications for office. The non birthers show that he has in proven his constitutional qualifications in all regards and then the birthers, ignoring everything that has been said, claim that Obama has not proven his constitutional qualifications for office. "
-Indeed,
The non-birthters claim he has proven his constutional qualifications for office. Yet the birthers have no basis to make the claim that he is not a citizen because it is somehow written in stone that the non-birthers COULD NOT be wrong. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 19, 2009 8:05 PM:
Gator wrote on Nov 19, 2009 7:13 PM:
357 hard to come by. Except for Police Reloads out of Montana 27.00
for a box of 50...Take it easy!!! "
Leonard wrote on Nov 19, 2009 6:17 PM:
Here I am, living in Texas the one liberty that is guaranteed is the right to bear arms and I couldn't get .223 ammo to save my life.
Up in NJ, you can buy it by the cart load but you can't buy a gun to shoot it in. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 19, 2009 6:10 PM:
I've done a bit of practicing on a friend's 1911 but what I really have been dreaming of is a big, shiny S&W .357 for the office/studio apartment that my wife and I keep behind the rental we purchased in New Jersey last year.
That will have to wait until I have the time to drive it up there, however since transporting firearms into the PRONJ is just about impossible by any other means. "
Gator wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:26 PM:
Clays. I swapped off the Ruger 204 for a Savage 22-250, faster and ammo
Is easer to come by . Life is good.. And you??? "
Leonard wrote on Nov 19, 2009 5:16 PM:
Gator wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:17 PM:
am watching with a very jaundiced eye and only time will tell. I just have a
real problem with rumor mongers, conspiracy theorist, Black Helicopter
people and people who see the numbers on the back of road signs as guides
for the UN Storm troopers… "
Leonard wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:08 PM:
" Jerome, I believe the man had met the criteria for the office of the president of the United States... I would think Jerome he more than meets any and all qualifications set forth by the constitution of the United States.
Well put.
There appears to be a pattern here. The birthers claim that Obama has not proven his constitutional qualifications for office. The non birthers show that he has in proven his constitutional qualifications in all regards and then the birthers, ignoring everything that has been said, claim that Obama has not proven his constitutional qualifications for office. "
Gator wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:06 PM:
Wouldn’t allow Magna *** Laude pass through. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:03 PM:
" Now this is true racism:
"The Rev. Jesse Jackson said Wednesday night that any black lawmaker who votes against President Obama's sweeping health care overhaul isn't really black, the Hill newspaper reported."
I agree. Racists come in all shades and political affiliations. I have considered Jackson a virulent racist ever since his "h$%&^e-town" remark and the years have only served to confirm this belief. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 19, 2009 4:01 PM:
If America was introduced to a white conservative candidate whose parents traveled around to diferent continents when that candidate was young (or during the time he or she was concieved), and there was a hint of evidence (as there is here) that the candidate may not have been born in America, and that candidate REFUSED to prove that he or she was born in America,
How has Obama "refused to prove that he was born in America"? "
Gator wrote on Nov 19, 2009 3:56 PM:
Illinois for 3 years…He Graduated from Columbia College 1983 (Not
Columbia University) Obama Graduated from Harvard Law school
with great honors.. I would think Jerome he more than meets any and
All qualifications set forth by the constitution of the United States. So Jerome this should support my statement I put forth Gator wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:40 PM and I will state again that Birthers and in the same loony bin
As the 9/11 truthers "
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 19, 2009 1:13 PM:
As for this matter being limited to the confines of the Lodi News-Sentinel, I think not. Such a claim would have one wondering whether you've performed even a modicum of independent research on the issue before offering an opinion. If you simply don't care, that's perfectly fine. But to state that others don't care, that's disingenuous. "
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 19, 2009 1:02 PM:
"The Rev. Jesse Jackson said Wednesday night that any black lawmaker who votes against President Obama's sweeping health care overhaul isn't really black, the Hill newspaper reported." "
Gator wrote on Nov 19, 2009 12:40 PM:
Declaration of independence by all the fuss that “WAS” made over it.
The man is a Democrat and he was running for the Presidency, somehow
I believe There were key Republicans who access to certain agency’s who
Could investigate his birth certificate down to the color of ink and the weight of the paper stock it was printed on. The issue is dead except at
The LNS… "
Aimee wrote on Nov 19, 2009 11:00 AM:
If America was introduced to a white conservative candidate whose parents traveled around to diferent continents when that candidate was young (or during the time he or she was concieved), and there was a hint of evidence (as there is here) that the candidate may not have been born in America, and that candidate REFUSED to prove that he or she was born in America, do you not think that the liberal-leaning media would RUN with this?
Look what they've done to Palin with their excessive "fact checking". So, shall we now say that the fervor is simply due to the fact she is female? Would it be correct to assert that all liberals don't like Sarah just because she is female? Why, how dare we suggest that - of course not, they hate her because she is "stupid". But yet when a conservative individual criticizes Obama, it is always because of racism.
Same old tired argument, same old tired double standard. I know you can do better than that, to bring up this sad and threadbare argument Leonard. "
Brian wrote on Nov 19, 2009 7:54 AM:
Brian wrote on Nov 19, 2009 7:51 AM:
he is the first Kingpin to be elected President of the U.S. " "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:26 PM:
" I'm not to sure if many Democrats wouldn't want his Presidency to be null and void, if it is determined he is a non-citizen, given his cerebral ineptness.
I am not sure that your wife might not want your marriage to be null and void if it is determined that you are an Ivory billed Woodpecker.
Enough with this nonsense! "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:24 PM:
" Leonard wrote:
There are no "ramifications" because it has been amply demonstrated that Obama is, in fact, a citizen.
Brian wrote:
The ramifications it could cause.
-There is a difference sir. "
An inconsequential difference since it cannot cause any ramifications because he is a citizen.
Basically, you are talking about a non issue. "
Brian wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:20 PM:
Brian wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:14 PM:
There are no "ramifications" because it has been amply demonstrated that Obama is, in fact, a citizen.
Brian wrote:
The ramifications it could cause.
-There is a difference sir. "
Brian wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:10 PM:
" dyan wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:51 PM:
" Lenny: Why doesn't your great leader release his school records as others have done.
I don't know that any recent President has released his school records. Bush certainly didn't. Did Clinton?
-The obvious answer seems to have escaped Leonard. Along with the fact that it was a rhetorical question. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:08 PM:
" Leonard, Now that I have given you a good reason why people are motivated to get down to the bottom of Obama being a citizen or a non-citizen
Did I miss something? What good reason was that? There are no "ramifications" because it has been amply demonstrated that Obama is, in fact, a citizen. "
Brian wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:05 PM:
Don't you realize that Obama has always been embarassed about that A- he got in political science. It's just hearsay. He'll make sure it never becomes official :) "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:04 PM:
" Lenny: Why doesn't your great leader release his school records as others have done.
I don't know that any recent President has released his school records. Bush certainly didn't. Did Clinton? "
Brian wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:02 PM:
On a side note: My wife came home with
a case of beer. I was licking my chops
until I reminded myself I can't drink anymore. I really can't Leonard. Ever since the last time I got really drunk on single malt scotch my body won't tolerate even one drink. I can see if I was a heavy drinker. Never was. FYI
My wife has one to two drinks a night.
But that won't keep Lodian from suggesting she is a drunk too. "
dyan wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:51 PM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:26 PM:
However, when someone finally does find out he is not a citizen whether it be during his presidency or after it will open up a can of worms.
Brian, why do you believe that Obama is not a citizen. I have not seen a convincing argument for this POV, do you have one? "
Gator wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:24 PM:
over. I would guess they know how many times he smokes during the
day, how many times he blinks, if he spits on the ground and on and on.
Conspiracy theorist equal intellectually Challenged … Or I will go it
one better… Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts
when your always afraid. You step out of line the man come take you
Away….. "
Brian wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:17 PM:
I happen to agree with you that the question of his citizenship is a waste of time. However, when someone finally does find out he is not a citizen whether it be during his presidency or after it will open up a can of worms.
I hope you're prepared for the possibility of a slew of non-citizens
running for President. So, since we're both in agreement that it's a waste of time that doesn't make it any less of a problem that his non-citizenship could usher in a whole new era of who is now qualified to be President because you were too busy using the race card and not looking at the ramifications it could cause. On that note, I may not be so quick to defer to the notion that it's a waste of time. "
voter wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:14 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:12 PM:
voter wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:08 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:07 PM:
'OK Sparky. You appear to be contending that some birthers are motivated to make this absurd claim by something other than racism.
What, specifically, do you think is the source of this other type of motivation?'
I don't know, Leonard, as I am not a birther nor a defender of them. I just find it absurd to believe that every last one of them is a racist. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:58 PM:
'THE POINT IS THAT IT IS EQUALLY RIDICULOUS FOR PEOPLE TO QUESTION OBAMA'S CITIZENSHIP.'
Leonard, it is equally ridiculous for you and Billy to keep claiming that I have questioned it. I'm still waiting for either one of you to show me where I have. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:55 PM:
Brian, certainly you are familiar with the concept of self loathing? "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:55 PM:
'You have, whether you will admit it or not, given John McCain the pass you are unwilling to give Obama.'
Thanks Dr. Phil for searching deep into my soul to help me figure out my inner conscience.
What 'pass' am I giving mccain? What is the controversy with him that would enable me to give him a 'pass'?
What is it that you say i am unwilling to give obama? It's probable obvious that I disagree with his policies, but show me one instance where I questioned his citizenship. Why don't you read my posts before you comment on them. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:53 PM:
" Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:46 AM:
" Brian, why do you think the birthers are obsessed with Obama's citizenship, if it is not due to racism? "
-Hmm, I have spoken to birthers that are Black.
Well, that's nice but why don't you answer the question. What motivates these people? "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:52 PM:
You will cling to, but refuse to acknowledge, your racist hate no matter what is said.
OK Billy, I really don't see this. Sparky may be tremendously misinformed but I honestly don't buy the argument that he himself is a racist. As he has pointed out, he has not (to my knowledge) ever said that he believes the birthers are right.
The question here is whether some of the tremendous hate that has been vented by the Right since their defeat in the last election is the result of racism. People like Sparky want to bury their heads in the sand and imagine that it isn't so. Our job is to show them that putting sand on ones head doesn't make reality go away. "
Brian wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:49 PM:
" Brian, why do you think the birthers are obsessed with Obama's citizenship, if it is not due to racism? "
-Hmm, I have spoken to birthers that are Black. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:48 PM:
No, I am not suggesting that at all. I never have suggested that one time on this blog. I have ONLY questioned your assessment that ALL people who question his birth certificate are racists.
OK Sparky. You appear to be contending that some birthers are motivated to make this absurd claim by something other than racism.
What, specifically, do you think is the source of this other type of motivation?
Please tell me, I really want to know. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:46 PM:
No, sparky, your lame attempt is not at all what I said, nor is it the point.
You will cling to, but refuse to acknowledge, your racist hate no matter what is said. There was never in your mind the faintest idea of even the possibility that McCain's Panamanian birth might have disqualified him. Even now, after the fact, you post internet "biographies", hoping to somehow "prove" he is legit.
Yet you are willing to ignore proof and give full credence to the nutters' idea that Obama is illegitimate, that the sham began in 1961, going so far as to use his absent father to discredit the grown man. Sparky, stop with the foil hat stuff before it's too late; Stop before you end up like Jerome. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:45 PM:
I apologize for yelling (virtually, at least) but this point has been made over and over again and it just doesn't seem to sink in. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:43 PM:
'Are you suggesting that Obama or any other American born in the State of Hawaii should be denied citizenship?
No, I am not suggesting that at all. I never have suggested that one time on this blog. I have ONLY questioned your assessment that ALL people who question his birth certificate are racists. How can you just make a blanket statement like that? It's fine to have an opinion, but you keep insisting it to be fact and common knowledge.
And you said :
'Remember, you guys started this whole debate.'
Why don't you take a look at the very first post here . "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:32 PM:
Leonard, what is this free pass with mccain you speak of? What is the controversy with his birth?
It's funny how I am being made out to be a defender of birthers ( which I haven't done once here ), yet you two are acting like birthers against mccain. By your own definition leonard, that is racism, because ANYONE who questions a birth certificate is racist, right? "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:30 PM:
Billy, you are not suggesting that since McCain (or any other American serviceman for that matter )was born to an American serving at an American military base abroad, that he should be denied citizenship?
Are you suggesting that Obama or any other American born in the State of Hawaii should be denied citizenship?
Remember, you guys started this whole debate. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:28 PM:
How do you know this, Sparky?
I would submit to you that you don't know these "facts" you have presented, but rather that you have taken someone else's word for it or have assumed and believe it to be true. You have, whether you will admit it or not, given John McCain the pass you are unwilling to give Obama
Again, Billy puts it perfectly. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:25 PM:
'How do you know this, Sparky?
I would submit to you that you don't know these "facts" you have presented....'
http://www.biography.com/articles/John-McCain-9542249
Billy, you are not suggesting that since McCain (or any other American serviceman for that matter )was born to an American serving at an American military base abroad, that he should be denied citizenship? You are joking, right? "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:21 PM:
Leonard, John McCain was born, on a military base on land that was controlled by America, to an American family that just happened to be there serving our country. Were they to rush back to the mainland simply to give birth?
No, you totally miss the point. John McCain's birth is just as legitimate as Obama's. One was born in an American state to an American mother the other was born on an American base to an American mother.
McCain, however, gets a pass from the birthers because he is white while the insurmountable evidence that Obama was born a US citizen is ignored by the same people because he is black.
Two men with the same qualifications (at least as far as their birth goes) are treated differently because of the color of their skin. What would you call that OTHER than racism? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Nov 18, 2009 6:20 PM:
Really? You are granting what you deem desirable personal traits - and withholding them - based upon a man's father? Does your "Sins of the Father" system work for - or against - everyone? Details, please.
I guess that's no more insane than Jerome Kinderman proposing Obama consciously began his life-long birth charade the moment he took his first breath.
What in the world has happened to you people? "
Billy Rubin wrote on Nov 18, 2009 5:21 PM:
How do you know this, Sparky?
I would submit to you that you don't know these "facts" you have presented, but rather that you have taken someone else's word for it or have assumed and believe it to be true. You have, whether you will admit it or not, given John McCain the pass you are unwilling to give Obama.
The two men in question don't matter anymore - it is the fact that one is taken by you and accepted at face value while the other is mistrusted and condemned by you (and Jerome "Fair Play" Kinderman) - also at "face" value. "
voter wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:57 PM:
voter wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:49 PM:
voter wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:41 PM:
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:41 PM:
Have you ever wondered why there are so few contributors on these forums when a certain group shows up on controversial subjects? Most of us simply want to discuss the letters and the issues that unfold without the name-calling and character assassinations that are sure to dominate their thought processes. It's sad really; yet if the LNS moderators determine their offerings to have violated the simple rules they scream censorship at those who simply refuse to fall in line behind them. Rarely do they address their angst toward those who actually remove their untoward comments from the forum itself. It's not too unlike a middle school playground.
It's a relief to see one or two reasonable bloggers stand up against them from time to time. Of course it won't do any good; like most bullies they cannot argue based upon anything but their own hatred that is guided by their innate fear. I actually pity them. "
Gator wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:33 PM:
The UN Troops when they come to take over America and put us all
In prison… You people have to much time on your hands, grow up
Get a job…. "
voter wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:28 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:28 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:25 PM:
'Sparky, Billy has summarized this better than I ever could. '
Leonard, John McCain was born, on a military base on land that was controlled by America, to an American family that just happened to be there serving our country. Were they to rush back to the mainland simply to give birth?
Leonard, surely this isn't your best way of summarizing your stance on why you are a racist for questioning someone's birth certificate.
P.S. While McCain's father proudly served in the military for America, Obama's father was a marxist politician from Kenya. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 3:51 PM:
Plain and simple: Old Republican white guy born in Panama gets a pass. White Republican chick he thinks is hot gets a pass. It wouldn't even enter his mind to consider investigating either of the two.
Black guy - AFTER PROOF - still no good.
Sparky, Billy has summarized this better than I ever could. "
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 18, 2009 2:05 PM:
I would think Hollywood would want a bite at such an idea, but since this might be a subject too close to home I doubt we'd see it released until after President Obama is possibly re-elected in 2012. I would think they shouldn't because they had no compunction against producing a movie pontificating on the assassination of George W. Bush while he was still president. And no one seemed to have a problem with that. However, those movie moguls are a squirrely lot; you never know with them. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:02 PM:
Plain and simple: Old Republican white guy born in Panama gets a pass. White Republican chick he thinks is hot gets a pass. It wouldn't even enter his mind to consider investigating either of the two.
Black guy - AFTER PROOF - still no good.
Obama Derangement Sysdrome has claimed Jerome Kinderman. "
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 18, 2009 1:01 PM:
Therefore, from this point forward I will no longer accept racism in any argument unless there is convincing evidence to the contrary. Especially when it comes to discussing presidential policy, such tactics only demean the discourse; much like most of the contributions on this forum. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:54 PM:
'Spanky spends more time trying to clear his name than commenting on stories.
I wonder, again, why that is..... '
Because of useless people like yourself keep accusing me of it. If I didn't 'clear my name' every time, you would make comments about how 'my silence proves this or that'. Your games are childish. Grow up. "
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:52 PM:
Racism is consistently interjected whenever people get together to protest this president's policies. The Tea Party participants are always labeled as such, always to the point of absurdity.
Liberals, whenever they cannot validate their stance legitimately nearly always toss race into the mix. Even here, when people question the validity of Obama's presidency (something that was continuously leveled against George W. Bush after he constitutionally won the election of 2000 by the way), all things being equal it MUST be racism to even ask the question. It HAS to be racism or they've got nothing; which is pretty much what they have after race is removed from the equation. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:51 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:45 PM:
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:42 PM:
I wonder, again, why that is..... "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 18, 2009 12:31 PM:
'No matter, if your racist comments were still posted on the "robbery suspects caught" blog, which LNS decided they should not be, then I could prove my point.'
First of all, I have no knowledge of the blog you are referring to. I rarely, if at all, post comments to local crime stories. I would sure love for you to show my name associated with ANY racist comment on ANY blog at LNS. Until then, you are just a lying fraud trying to smear my name. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:15 AM:
To equate any dissention regarding this president as racist makes a mockery of not only the man, but his legitimacy as president.
What an absurd and dishonest strawhorse!!!
NO ONE here has claimed that any dissension is racist. What has been stated is that the birther practice of questioning the man's very Americaness is racist.
It is racist, simple and plain. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:13 AM:
" Still, those so vehemently opposed to anyone questioning this president is what borders on insanity.
Questioning of the question is not just allowable, it is entirely desirable. Racially motivated attacks on his "Americaness" (although certainly permitted by the First Amendment) are not.
If you really were repelled by racism, as you claim to be, you would recognize that.
As usual, your silence speaks volumes. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 11:11 AM:
As for his birth certificate being available for viewing online; c'mon! Any third grader at Washington School could gin up any document they choose and pass it off on the Internet.
The State of Hawaii has verified that the document posted on line is legitimate.
I guess that clears up your concerns? "
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:13 AM:
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 18, 2009 9:10 AM:
As for his birth certificate being available for viewing online; c'mon! Any third grader at Washington School could gin up any document they choose and pass it off on the Internet.
As I stated earlier, my concern is more about how the two Constitutional requirements are met prior to anyone beginning their campaign. The only thing I could come up with is a Form No. 3-A, "Nominating Petition and Statement of Candidacy." What appears to be relied upon in that document is just the candidate's word that he/she is "...at least thirty-five years old, and shall have resided for at least fourteen years within the United States by the 20th day of January after such election. I am a natural-born citizen of the United States." (It seems a third qualification exists.) But how are these things validated; and who specifically does the validating? "
brokenl wrote on Nov 18, 2009 8:32 AM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:46 AM:
Brian wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:29 AM:
There are eye witnesses that say Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii, as per his birth certificate.
-And there are eyewitnesses that saw Obama expressing his subservience to the Japanese emperor by bowing. He did say he was going to set precedents. "
Brian wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:25 AM:
Sparky, the entire birther concept is racist. No one would ever ask questions like this of a white President. Did anyone ever raise this question with Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, or Bush II?
No because they were all white.
-Inventing racism is racist, Leonard.
Haven't we had enough of this already?
Don't let the facts get in your way that regardless of Obama's skin color
many still question his citizenship. I would rather not question his citizenship because it's a waste of time. I know you're all engrossed in the ridiculous theory that because he's Black his citizenship is more of an issue that if he was White. But, doesn't it occur to you that while you're beating your chest to stop racism, you're other fist is beating your chest to keep it alive? "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:18 AM:
I'm sorry, but I have come to believe that every move this man makes is a political calculation that can not have the best interests of this country in mind
Including being born?
Look, at some point, this all reaches such a level of absurdity that it has to be rejected by anyone with a minimal level of sanity.
There are eye witnesses that say Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii, as per his birth certificate.
That said, Obama could have been born under an umbrella on Wakiki Beach and it wouldn't make an ounce of difference.
Surely, you will agree that this argument has passed beyond the realm of possible credibility? "
rantraves wrote on Nov 18, 2009 7:15 AM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:15 AM:
They all say the same thing.
It all gets back to what I said at the beginning. You could present a video of Obama's birth with Honolulu clearly visible out the window along with eye witness depositions from Mother Theresa, Ronald Reagan, and the Pope and these people still wouldn't believe it because their belief has nothing to do with rational thought and everything to do with naked prejudice and bigotry. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 18, 2009 4:10 AM:
" Leonard: slap yourself a few times. "Snopes" is Babs n husband Mickkelson, working out of the So. Cal. den of their house, long time liberal cause supporters.
You know veritas, it is a long held tradition for those who can not deal with the facts to go after the people presenting the facts. The link I posted is well documented with an extensive bibliography. "
voter wrote on Nov 17, 2009 9:14 PM:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
How about politifact.com?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
They all say the same thing. "
Veritas wrote on Nov 17, 2009 8:52 PM:
rantraves wrote on Nov 17, 2009 7:35 PM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 7:28 PM:
" I was not born in [Honolulu] Hawaii, but my wife was. I am looking at her birth certificate and it bears no relationship to the one posted on President Osama's web site. "
Was she also born in 1961?
The question of the certificates appearance is thoroughly dealt with at snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp).
Why don't you read the summary there and get back to us if you still are not convinced? "
veritas wrote on Nov 17, 2009 7:11 PM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 6:44 PM:
" Leonard, you should know that racism is alive and flourishing in livable lovable Lodi. The person to whom you are conversing with has said in this forum that he dislikes anyone with a Q or Z in their name. Now he defends a "birther", typical from the pointy sheet crowd.
Broken1, Sparky may be misinformed about a great many things but I don't believe that he is a racist. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 17, 2009 6:29 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Nov 17, 2009 6:15 PM:
There *is* of course no question. It must be that pesky Kinderman Blogging Scale again. He's either being dishonest (highly likely), saying there is legitimate doubt of Obama's birth status; or he's ignorant (not at all out of the question) and wishes to remain in that condition.
In either case, his blathering about it amounts to banging his spoon on his high chair. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 5:05 PM:
" Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 17, 2009 1:02 PM: "This is a common tactic too often used in an attempt to shut people down..."
Or you can just have the other guy censored. Either way works. "
Chuckle.... "
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 5:02 PM:
As for the question of anyone's place of birth being racist, that's complete nonsense. Previous presidents may not have been questioned, not because they were white (how many presidents before Obama were not white?), but because there was apparently no question as to their places of birth.
Jerome, what question exists about Obama's birth? His birth certificate can be viewed on line. Eye witnesses have attested to it. Tell us Jerome, what question exists? "
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 4:58 PM:
" ...America, the greatest..
Undoubtedly. "
Rhodie wrote on Nov 17, 2009 4:09 PM:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp "
t jefferson wrote on Nov 17, 2009 3:31 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 17, 2009 3:24 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 17, 2009 3:23 PM:
'I have heard many of Obama's speeches, but have never heard him use the words freedom and or liberty.'
Great, proud, strong, charitable, and courageous are a few more that come to mind that seem to be absent from his speeches describing the America, greatest nation in the world. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 3:15 PM:
" Leonard, I am know that it is just your opinion that 'birthers' (every single last one of them) are racists. Like the old cliche goes, 'we're all entitled to our opinions'. However, the fact of the matter is, it is just your opinion, so you should be more careful when accusing anyone of being a racist.
Much as it is just my opinion that people who think black people are inferior because of the color of their skin are "racist". "
Billy Rubin wrote on Nov 17, 2009 3:12 PM:
Or you can just have the other guy censored. Either way works. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Nov 17, 2009 3:10 PM:
However, racism is never quite abhorent enough for Ol' Jer to actually condemn blatant examples.
If Kinderman spend even a moment *living* the moral life he claims, he wouldn't have to keep droning on about what a fine person he is. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 17, 2009 1:08 PM:
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 17, 2009 1:02 PM:
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 17, 2009 12:59 PM:
But I am equally offended by those who toss in the "race card" when it is convenient or politically expedient. Such actions limit free and open discussion on many issues having to do with race relations and many other important matters. While many had believed the Obama Administration would usher in a new era of non-racist discourse. I wasn't so optimistic. Sadly, it appears we're more racist and less tolerant now than before the election of 2008. And there's a lot of blame to go around why this has occurred, from the streets of Lodi all the way to the White House (yes, even to Obama himself).
We are not so far removed from the civil unrest of the sixties as many would like to believe. There's a lot of work that needs to be done; the election of the first black president was not meant to be the end of the discussion – it's just the beginning. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 17, 2009 12:51 PM:
'I am sure that you would like to cleanse your movement of the stain of racism but, if you want to do so, you will need to put an end to blatantly racist nonsense like this letter.'
Again Leonard, I ask, where is the 'blatantly racist nonsense' in this letter? "
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 17, 2009 12:37 PM:
As for the question of anyone's place of birth being racist, that's complete nonsense. Previous presidents may not have been questioned, not because they were white (how many presidents before Obama were not white?), but because there was apparently no question as to their places of birth.
Frankly, I'm not as interested in Obama's birth certificate as I am in how any president is vetted based upon the Constitutional requirements for the job. Clearly we're more interested in non-Constitutional issues surrounding one's candidacy (which in and of itself isn't necessarily bad) than whether or not the basic requirements have been met.
Of course the problem exists now that if any president in such a predicament is proved to be ineligible, what could be done about it? That's the real question. And in no way can it be determined to be racist to ask. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 17, 2009 12:12 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 17, 2009 12:10 PM:
'The person to whom you are conversing with has said in this forum that he dislikes anyone with a Q or Z in their name. Now he defends a "birther", typical from the pointy sheet crowd.'
What on earth are you talking about? Q or Z? I have no clue what this means. Stop making up lies about me. Show me proof of your false accusations and lies.
Show me where I defended 'birthers'. I asked Leonard why someone is a racist for questioning a birth certificate.
Stop spinning words, creating falsehoods, and making up lies about me just to get attention. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 9:58 AM:
This sounds very similar to me as the kind of comments that I imagine JFK faced being the first Catholic president and people fearing that he would be a puppet of the Pope.
An apt comparison. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 9:57 AM:
The only counter to this I will throw out there for you Leonard is that O is the first president (I believe) NOT born inside the 48 states.
The problem with that argument is that there are 50 states and have been since well before Obama was born. "
Rhodie v2.0 wrote on Nov 17, 2009 8:40 AM:
The only counter to this I will throw out there for you Leonard is that O is the first president (I believe) NOT born inside the 48 states. It would be a simple matter for any previous president to point to the hospital he was born in. I haven't read all the conspiracies for O but it sounds like where he was born and his nationality are questioned by some. This sounds very similar to me as the kind of comments that I imagine JFK faced being the first Catholic president and people fearing that he would be a puppet of the Pope. "
brokenl wrote on Nov 17, 2009 8:25 AM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 7:47 AM:
Earlier on another letter you mentioned the diminishing influence of the phrase 'drinking the koolaid' because people used it to often (which I agree with). Maybe you should apply your same advice to tossing around the racism accusations.
Tell that to the previous birther letter writer who described Hawaii as a state populated with foreign savages.
I am sure that you would like to cleanse your movement of the stain of racism but, if you want to do so, you will need to put an end to blatantly racist nonsense like this letter. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 7:44 AM:
" Leonard, can you point to one remark in this letter that remotely suggests racism?
Sparky, the entire birther concept is racist. No one would ever ask questions like this of a white President. Did anyone ever raise this question with Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, or Bush II?
No because they were all white. "
sparky595 wrote on Nov 17, 2009 7:30 AM:
Earlier on another letter you mentioned the diminishing influence of the phrase 'drinking the koolaid' because people used it to often (which I agree with). Maybe you should apply your same advice to tossing around the racism accusations. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 17, 2009 3:47 AM:
Comments on this story are now closed.