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Words from our forefathers
Thursday, November 5, 2009 6:19 AM PST
I can't stand it any longer — there needs to be a voice contrary to all the Christians who seem to be dominating the editorials.
Most of our Founding Fathers were not Christian; they were deists. They believed that there was a creator; but he doesn't concern himself with the world anymore. Still don't believe me?
James Madison: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
John Adams: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
Thomas Jefferson: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law," and, "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."
George Washington: "Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society."
Benjamin Franklin: "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches," and, "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my profession."
Thomas Paine: "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst," and, "All national institutions of churches appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Alexander Hunt
Lodi
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Gator wrote on Nov 11, 2009 8:53 AM:
Muslims speaking out against the radicals that will never happen.
It’s called intimidation Brian, yes even here in America.. As for Radical
Christianity Going on a Jihad that sounds like it came from Saturday
Night live!!!! As my Pakistani Brother in law has said before these
people are not afraid to die. Westerners are!! They don’t need Tanks
Planes or a lot of troops a few will do. As in Britain home grown
Well educated young men can inflict damage and havoc beyond
Imagination ..to scoff and disregard these people as uneducated
Illiterates incapable of doing us harm is a big mistake. As the
Number 2 man Ayman Al-Zawahiri we will never quit and we will
Never go away… "
Brian wrote on Nov 11, 2009 6:44 AM:
may have made this seem so. From this point of view I could see where Leonard
might arrive at his theory of an imminent worldwide threat of Radical Christianity. And we can't forget how affective, but shortlived, Baghdad Bob's propaganda
was in the beginning of the Iraq war. "
Brian wrote on Nov 11, 2009 6:34 AM:
awaiting their marching orders that will make Radical Islam seem like a walk in the park. "
Brian wrote on Nov 11, 2009 6:30 AM:
I don't feel any less comfortable that you believe only 360,000 are hard core radical. This is a profound indictment for Islam, in general. When the Islam population
as a whole condemns these 360,000 to the point where it is not only words,
but action, I will sleep much better. "
Gator wrote on Nov 10, 2009 6:30 PM:
thousand are considered hard core Radical…But really the home grown
Verity are the real problem…Sleep well. "
Gator wrote on Nov 10, 2009 6:25 PM:
Godfather wrote on Nov 9, 2009 8:40 PM:
Godfather wrote on Nov 9, 2009 8:37 PM:
Brian wrote on Nov 8, 2009 9:47 AM:
And for you to suggest that the incidents in Bosnia are a precurser to
to a resurgence in radical Christianity
not seen since the crusades, you gotta be smoking some good weed. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 7, 2009 9:41 AM:
" Oh that 7 percent of the Muslim population that agrees with Osama Bin Laden isn't enough for Leonard to raise an eyebrow. So, instead he wants to focus on the one in a billion chance that a Chrisian MIGHT go jihad. THIS is the imminent threat
Tell it to the Bosnian Moslems. "
Brian wrote on Nov 7, 2009 7:37 AM:
A Christian jihad?
It is becoming increasingly difficult to write off Christian fundamentalism and other conservative Christian groups.
-Oh boy. Mandatory reading. "
Brian wrote on Nov 7, 2009 7:26 AM:
" I'm sorry Leonard, but I'm just not seeing it.
-It's a one in a billion chance rant. Put on your spectacles. :) "
Brian wrote on Nov 7, 2009 7:23 AM:
rantraves wrote on Nov 7, 2009 6:30 AM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 6, 2009 8:12 PM:
" I'm sorry Leonard, but I'm just not seeing it. Who are these Jihadis? and and what power is theirs, that they are able to force anything? "
Chuckle... Now you are just being obtuse. "
rantraves wrote on Nov 6, 2009 12:12 PM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:47 AM:
" Is that it Leonard? The Christians you know are not very Christ-like?
Hardly. I myself am a Christian.
What I said is that the christian Jihadis who are engaged in a constant war to force their brand of theocracy on this nation, in my experience, have very little to do with the teachings of Christ (although they certainly can spout selective scripture at the drop of a hat). "
rantraves wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:08 AM:
Brian wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:03 AM:
The biggest shortcoming of Christianity (as practiced in the places that I have visited, at least) is that so many Christians disregard the teachings of Christ.
-You mean those government buildings where David Diskin demands we leave our
religion at the door? "
Brian wrote on Nov 6, 2009 6:53 AM:
But hey keep trying to destroy the country, you progressives have been at it for 90 years and have made quite a dent already...but I think a backlash is on the horizon. If not a Christian one, then the Religion of Peace will take care of the issue.... "
-Yep,
But you'll be hard pressed to convince a progressive that they will eventually push the envelope so far it will cause a power vacuum. "
Lodian wrote on Nov 6, 2009 12:34 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 5:44 PM:
voter wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:45 PM:
Leonard wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:20 PM:
" By focusing on the shortcomings ( or sin ) of the Christian, you allow yourselves to disregard the teachings of Christ.
The biggest shortcoming of Christianity (as practiced in the places that I have visited, at least) is that so many Christians disregard the teachings of Christ.
I find that the philosophy modern right wing "christian" jihadis has very little to do with the living Christ.
-Lenny
Up With Freedom, Up With Liberty, UP WITH THE JERRY KIMONO SAGA!!! "
Leonard wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:13 PM:
That last post should have been addressed to Jrk. "
Leonard wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:11 PM:
" Is it possible, Alex, that these men were decrying the organized institution of religion and its improper placement in government rather than indicating their disbelief and frustration with their own religious experience?
In the case of Paine, at least, I think it is clear that he means exactly what he says. The man was vehemently opposed to organized religion.
-Lenny
Up With Freedom, Up With Liberty, UP WITH THE JERRY KIMONO SAGA!!! "
rantraves wrote on Nov 5, 2009 2:03 PM:
wtf wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:53 AM:
t jefferson wrote on Nov 5, 2009 10:47 AM:
The fact is Deisism was a creation of the 17th and 18th century which took the mystical - magical God of the Christians and tried to look at it from scientific terms. That's all.
Do you really think the morals and values (read as how to live your life) were different between Christians and Deists? No so much.
But hey keep trying to destroy the country, you progressives have been at it for 90 years and have made quite a dent already...but I think a backlash is on the horizon. If not a Christian one, then the Religion of Peace will take care of the issue.... "
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Nov 5, 2009 9:44 AM:
However, what we cannot get away from is what some of these famous men insisted should be included in the very First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. In my opinion, it gets no simpler than: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Yet here we are faced with mounting religious persecution not too unlike what the original Europeans sought to escape from when they landed on Plymouth Rock. The only reason I can explain why this is happening is out of nothing but fear from those who are so adamantly opposed to people who believe in something more powerful than they.
The Founders, by majority, were men of extreme faith. This is obvious by their words and actions as they moved forward with this democratic experiment. If they could see how we've evolved since then, they might wonder if their efforts were in vain. Sad. "
Aimee wrote on Nov 5, 2009 9:21 AM:
Are there more to these quotes that were left out that may answer these questions? "
Aimee wrote on Nov 5, 2009 9:17 AM:
Rhodie wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:04 AM:
veritas wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:59 AM:
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:58 AM:
So true! It is arrogant of the Christian fundamentalists who lurk on these boards to equate Deist with Christian. "
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