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Here's what my father knew about the assassination of JFK
Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:29 AM PDT
Local resident Bill Cruz occasionally asks me: "What did your father REALLY know about the Kennedy assassination?"
Almost 46 years ago on Friday, Nov. 22, 1963, President John F. Kennedy was gunned down while riding in a motorcade in Dallas, Texas. Local authorities had jurisdiction over the murder, but federal officials simply ignored that fact. Within hours after the assassination, they loaded the body onto Air Force One and took it to Bethesda, Md.
That night, military personnel were ordered to conduct an autopsy. Those performing the procedures were Drs. James Boswell and James J. Humes. Also present was Dr. Pierre Finck of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. At the time, Dr. Joseph Blumberg was the director of the AFIP in Washington, D.C. and Dr. J.M. Stover Jr. was the medical school commanding officer at the Bethesda National Naval Medical Center.
Two days after the murder, accused assassin Lee Harvey Oswald was shot and killed by nightclub owner Jack Ruby in the Dallas police station. These bizarre circumstances quickly led to speculative conspiracy theories.
Bill was interested because my father, Dr. Louis S. Hansen, had been a department chief at the AFIP. At the time of the tragedy, Dad was assigned to the NNMC. He knew all the physicians mentioned above, who were involved with the autopsy.
My father was tight-lipped about the situation. I do remember on one occasion Dad saying that he had asked his friend, Dr. Humes, if the autopsy findings were accurate. Humes told him they were. Like many Americans, Pop had some doubts about some of the conclusions, especially after the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1979 came up with some alternative views to the 1964 Warren Commission Report. But in the end, he trusted the word of his friend.
In answer to Bill's question, I will not speculate here, but present information that has since been released by the U.S. government.
The first two statements relate to Dr. Humes, coupled with testimony that he gave to the Warren Commission. A letter written to the executive director of the Assassinations Records Review Board by AFIP archivist Michael Rhode, sources the third item.
1. Preliminary Autopsy Notes Destroyed. In a document dated Nov. 24, 1963, Dr. Humes certified that he had burned his preliminary draft notes. He later told the Warren Commission that this was performed in his home fireplace, and he had done so because the notes were bloodstained.
2. Humes Sworn to Secrecy. On Nov. 26, 1963, Naval Medical School Commanding Officer J. M. Stover Jr. ordered Dr. Humes to remain silent on the case under penalty of courtmartial.
3. Expert Concludes Both Shots Fired from Behind. Dr. Pierre Finck was chief of the Wound Ballistic Pathology Branch at the AFIP. On Feb. 1, 1965, he wrote a memo to the director of the AFIP, Joseph Blumberg. This included his summary of findings as presented to the Warren Commission. Dr. Finck concluded that President Kennedy was struck by two bullets fired from the rear.
According to Mr. Rhode, the cited Finck document was hidden in a safe in the home of Gen. Blumberg marked "Confidential." After his death in 1985, Blumberg's widow turned them over to the National Museum of Health and Medicine at the AFIP.
My father died in 1993. Any further information he may have had is obviously lost forever. I found nothing in his personal papers that would suggest anything beyond what has been revealed here. I wish I could play Oliver Stone and exaggerate some exciting conspiracy findings for my friend, Bill, but I'm afraid there is nothing more to add at this point. There have been hundreds of thousands of pages written by those who have insisted on sinister plots, with everything ranging from the Mafia did it, to a Russian agent was buried in the grave of Lee Harvey Oswald.
While some have spun tales over the years about various groups or agencies being involved, closely examined evidence does not appear to support these claims. There are often pieces of a puzzle missing in a murder case, and this one is certainly no exception.
As hard as it is to be believed by many, the documented facts seem to point to only one conclusion. A nobody-nutcase named Lee Harvey Oswald got very lucky with an old Carcano rifle during that fateful Friday on Nov. 22, 1963, and pulled off one of the most heinous crimes in American history.
Steve Hansen is a Lodi writer.
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danielh wrote on Nov 7, 2009 12:17 AM:
Tonight I had a very special evening with wonderful people, and I got a hug from someone just because I listened. Not bad for a jerk! Haa!
I am a very warm-hearted, and I spend a lot of my free-time conversing with people, with no objectives except friendship.
This jerk has friends scattered across the country who I have never even met. One such friend has been asking for help. He called numerous people and when I returned the call, he expressed that myself and one other individual in Oregon were the only ones that returned his desparation call. He also needs my presence to sign some of his documents, and we will both travel to make it happen. I'll probably meet him.
With you, I was only offering to share just because I noticed you were listening. You'd be surprised, no strings attached, and the offer is still there. "
danielh wrote on Nov 7, 2009 12:03 AM:
You wrote: “You often do not make sense to me. Just a fact.” I appreciate that you tried to understand a lot of things, and I did notice. This information has taken me a long time to study, to the point that people don’t understand it.
Have you ever heard a lawyer try to discuss law in casual conversation outside of his profession? No. There is a reason for it, and it is not because society doesn’t understand. [read between the lines, and this is very important.]
I am not a lawyer, and that is the reason why I don’t have a conflict of interest to discuss law within society.
“I used to think maybe there was some higher intelligence there.” Yes there is, and I say so with intent of sharing, or to somehow be of benefit to society.
“with you and have given you the benefit of the doubt (where many others have not!)”
There should not be any doubt. "
danielh wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:57 PM:
When the LNS deleted one of my statements and it didn’t make sense, I wish you would have said something and waited for my response. That was a good post that was copied onto several websites across the country after the interview. I read blogs where people were irate because of it. How can someone not have a single conviction after 70 arrests? Why is it that a judge kicks him out of a courtroom, screaming at the bailiff because it isn’t happening fast enough? While the accused is reading reverse charges to the judge? I would love to spread this information but it is only for people who are ready to receive it.
continued... "
danielh wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:10 PM:
I’ve done a lot of studying to learn history, and I can’t help it if it offends you or if you don’t understand it.
In order to understand historical facts, involving contradicting accounts, it is necessary to put aside all financial and political influences. Very little of reported news is given without financial ties to the news that is presented. For example, the Rockefellers bailed the San Francisco Chronicle out of its red ink, and they can control the SF Chronicle without actually owning it. Ditto numerous news corporations. "
danielh wrote on Nov 6, 2009 10:51 PM:
That said, perhaps you saw that I was appologetic below, before you wrote that I was a jerk.
Perhaps you might want to be advised that our own opinions are not the final eternal word. That is why I don't call people names and label people around here.
Good luck with that. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 6, 2009 6:22 AM:
Go to:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/dickipedia
Maybe they have some more info that in the history of the world, only danielH knows. "
Lodian wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:07 PM:
Whatever you say. "
Lodian wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:06 PM:
You often do not make sense to me. Just a fact. I used to think maybe there was some higher intelligence there with you and have given you the benefit of the doubt (where many others have not!), but after your recent unprovoked attack on me I think you're just a jerk. "
Lodian wrote on Nov 5, 2009 10:57 PM:
Too much information. "
danielh wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:10 PM:
I only quote wikipedia so that you have a source that you can believe in. "
danielh wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:07 PM:
I looked around at all the people that would not make any sense, and myself was the only one that I thought you could be LOL toward.
I remembered the last incident where the LNS deleted a comment and the remaining comments definitely didn't make any sense; so I figured you were still laughing at me for that.
I do not drink a drop of alcohol or take any medications whatsoever. After a surgery, I took the first pain med that the doctor gave me, and then I refused the remaining pills. After 3-days, I flushed them down the toilet. "
danielh wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:00 PM:
Lodian wrote on Nov 4, 2009 1:01 PM:
" sven wrote "Nothing you say makes any sense."
LOL! You're not alone in your opinion. :-) " "
sven31 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:47 AM:
Me? You're the wikipedia man look at this:
"danielh wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:29 PM:
" this story is printed as a possibility in everybody's premier web source: wikipedia.
Controversy of Frank Sturgis is presented by wikipedia at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sturgis" "
Lodian wrote on Nov 5, 2009 12:10 AM:
Lodian wrote on Nov 5, 2009 12:08 AM:
Lodian wrote on Nov 4, 2009 11:59 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 4, 2009 10:31 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 4, 2009 8:49 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 4, 2009 8:26 PM:
You wrote, "Google is a good place to start to. " "
sven31 wrote on Nov 4, 2009 6:41 PM:
Sorry to hear you're so stupid that you can't understand the many and strange beliefs that are held by danielH.
And since "I am strong enough to hold my opinion solid." I guess means he'll never be open to any other options such as hmm I dunno, the truth you won't be considered smart enough. Every town has a couple of people everyone knows that their piano is not quite tuned right and while it looks good, you could never play anything recognizable on it. I could give you a list, but if you lived here all your life, you know 'em. This is kind of an exception since danielH didn't grow up here (at least I think he hasn't).
Maybe you could look on Wikipedia. I hear they are an excellent source of factual information. Google is a good place to start to. Any site that comes up is just bulging with content. You have to use the right search terms though. You wouldn't want to find out that Jim Morrison lives next door. "
danielh wrote on Nov 4, 2009 4:19 PM:
Myself. I am strong enough to hold my opinion solid.
I know how well disinformed people are, and yet, I would never type LOL, and ROTFLMAO at anyone, no matter how much they obviously have some kind of problem.
Even you, if you asked a simple question, myself thinking it is a trick, I would probably still answer your question.
Truth is, this column isn't the brightest, most intelligent place in the world. "
danielh wrote on Nov 4, 2009 4:15 PM:
2) This is a complicated topic, and in all due respects, I don't think you are able to understand it. "
danielh wrote on Nov 4, 2009 4:12 PM:
1) In my defense, the last post I made in the other column suffered a deletion by the LNS. It was a 3-part series, and #2 was deleted. It wasn't me. It was a dialog of someone who was describing his own experience. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 4, 2009 1:48 PM:
As further evidence of JFK's still among the living: The Enquirer or Weekly World News, or some other distinguished periodical in the early 80's/late 70's had a picture of JFK looking out a window on the second floor of the white house!!! Another reported that he had survived and was living on a carribean island and that Jackie's marriage to Onasis was just a ruse to enable her to spend time on this island with her real husband. They reported that he was mostly a vegitable and had a big ugly scar on the back of his head (where everyone knows the bullet entered) but liked to sit on the beach with jacki at his side.
I don't have a lot of medical training, but I know you have: can someone with most their brain gone enjoy sitting on the beach with their wife?
I'm confused now. They don't put living people on coins, but how does that explain the Kennedy half-dollar? Was this to throw us off the trail? "
Lodian wrote on Nov 4, 2009 1:01 PM:
LOL! You're not alone in your opinion. :-) "
sven31 wrote on Nov 4, 2009 11:58 AM:
Did any of the "three tramps" identify themselves with their real names or is it because someone (like you) thinks they resemble members of the "Watergate" burglers?
I'm not sure your references to Nixon and the Watergate affair are even about.
Was this part of Nixon's plan to be president in 1976 our bicentenial or some other plot you guys have contrived. No doubt it's complicated and conviluted.
If it wasn't three tramps it would have been something else like Zapruder had been hired to film the assassinatin or that there was a kid sucking on a lollipop, or that .....
It's not possible to debate in a normal manner with people who think like you do. Nothing you say makes any sense. "
dyan wrote on Nov 4, 2009 7:54 AM:
danielh wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:41 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:40 PM:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13893143/the_last_confessions_of_e_howard_hunt "
danielh wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:29 PM:
Controversy of Frank Sturgis is presented by wikipedia at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sturgis
This articles places Frank Sturgis equal with Lee Harvey Oswald, presenting controversy that they were Castro agents.
Here, Wikipedia states that Sturgis might have been the shooter from the grassy knoll.
However, this articles blames the assassination on Castro, "
danielh wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:26 PM:
The Watergate burglars were taking pictures of themselves at Dealey plaza.
Nixon's "hanky-panky" references were "
danielh wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:12 PM:
So why did Nixon resign?
In the trial, someone would have asked, "Why break into the DNC headquarters?" "
danielh wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:08 PM:
If Nixon's re-election was a foregone conclusion, why was the decision made to break into DNC headquarters?
If Nixon had been subjected to an impeachment trial, wouldn't someone ask that question?
After Nixon's resignation, notice that a Warren Commissioner Gerald Ford asked for America to put this episode behind them. "
danielh wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:05 PM:
They just couldn't corroborate their stories under oath.
Just who gave the orders to burglarize Watergate never was exposed under testimony. "
danielh wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:03 PM:
can you please explain what Frank Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt were doing at Daeley plaza?
Let me refresh your memory.
They were Watergate burglars. You remember that, don't you?
Years later, Hunt said in his autobiography that "photography had been the priority mission," and that "the photography mission was paramount." "
sven31 wrote on Nov 3, 2009 11:54 AM:
" Dogs....Next, they will be recommending you into the insane assylum, whereas just a few days ago, your word was probably highly respected in here. "
Dogs' word is still respected here. Having one fringe belief is certainly ok. I have my own idea about 11-22-63, but mostly the Warren Com. has it right.
Dog's can separate crazy from norm. ideas and this one thing is no big deal. He doesn't think every single oddball claim is true and can discriminate between the two. danielH does not have this filter.
Anyway, glad to have some pleasant conversation with you Dogs as well as reading your posts. I respect everything you say without myself believing some of it. "
wtf wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:35 AM:
Hunh? I was **agreeing** with you. Better up your meds. LOL!
danielh: would like to speak to you of something else. Contact me at:
wtf322@yahoo.com "
danielh wrote on Nov 2, 2009 11:46 PM:
Next, they will be recommending you into the insane assylum, whereas just a few days ago, your word was probably highly respected in here. "
danielh wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:30 PM:
Next, they will be recommending you into the insane assylum, whereas just a few days ago, your word was probably highly respected in here. "
danielh wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:28 PM:
People are sometimes fighting over who can be first to quote thomas jefferson as saying bankers are more powerful than standing armies, but when it comes time to recognize their power and capability,
the same people will call each other names and put labels on them. "
danielh wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:25 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:23 PM:
You stated that agencies lied:
Secret Service: Absolutely Yes. They stood-down after the first shot was fired, allowing opportunity for a head shot, whereas, LBJ was protected. Remember: Secret Service is a nervous hair trigger when they are protecting the president, and that is exactly what they did to LBJ after the first shot was fired. Pounced on him probably, surrounding him, protecting him with their own bodies, in the same still photo where Kennedy only had one bullet into his neck.
Dallas Police: I doubt they knew anything about it.
FBI: Not important.
CIA: Absolutely. Their man George H.W. Bush, Sr., was supervising the scene at Daley plaza, photographed on the sidewalk, holding up the bank building wall.
Warren Commission: Absolutely YES. Enter Gerald Ford. "
danielh wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:02 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:01 PM:
Whereas you are challenging me for the reference, Dogs found one of the items, and it was a duplicate confirmation.
yet you were still not competent to deal with the information,
and you are still here labelling people who come, offering you the truth.
I also said I would make a private presentment of the website, so that the crazy kooks within this website would not view my information, but I did not realize you were one of them. "
danielh wrote on Nov 2, 2009 8:57 PM:
Did you see the part where dogs answered with the correct keywords? They were something like George H. W. Bush and daley plaza. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 2, 2009 6:47 PM:
Good research except that Ruby died while serving time for his conviction of murdering L.H. Oswald. It would be easy to miss. Google misses a lot of stuff...
Ruby contends that (and you and wtf and danielH will like this) he was given cancer cells instead of a vaccination for the flu or something for a could. I guess he wasn't that read up on the human immune system and it's response to cells from another human.
Best post: danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 1:50 PM:
" dogs4you: People need to know which keywords to enter into google.com. "
Let's go to google and type in terms like "kook" or "nut" "fringe element" or "crazy" along with "JFK". How soon till "danielH" pops up?
Bullets do strange things when they hit something that's 75% water. You can get a small entrance and a small exit. Or you can get a huge entrance and no exit, which seems to be the case here.
I don't think there's an exit for the head wound. The bullet disintegrated, hence all the fragments. "
dogs4you wrote on Nov 2, 2009 4:46 PM:
wtf, I never clamed to know anything concerning that day in Dallas, I just brought up some infomation I saw on Google and passed it on, now everyone is one me. Lay off your getting heavy. "
dyan wrote on Nov 2, 2009 4:16 PM:
wtf wrote on Nov 2, 2009 3:35 PM:
Well said and exactly true! And to clarify, the "we will never know" includes you, sven31 and you, too, dyan. LOL! "
dogs4you wrote on Nov 2, 2009 3:26 PM:
wtf wrote on Nov 2, 2009 3:03 PM:
Oh! That's right! Your "evidence" is the MSM pablum fed to gullible idiots. LOL!
Kind of like the 9-11 Commission Report...you know, the "report" that many of the widows of 9-11 totally rejected; the "report" that many of the commissioners have since rejected; the "report" that totally missed the fall of WTC 7.
So now I must ask you: What **other** evidence do you have besides the usual MSM garbage? "
dyan wrote on Nov 2, 2009 2:39 PM:
dogs4you wrote on Nov 2, 2009 1:51 PM:
Oliver Stone, something like the Warren Report was a means to an end as they saw it, along with that patsy Oswald, their set up guy. And Jack Ruby who conveniently died of cancer and was never brought to trial. Cover up You betcha. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 2, 2009 1:29 PM:
15 minutes later....
OK. I looked at it. This is your evidence? A retired lt.col's website?
What should i be seeing? From it's appearance, another conspiracy theorist with "inside" information only he knows. Books, notes, letters, photos, videos that will break this thing wide open?
Really if you and danielH are going to engage in this pattern, you need to bring your "A" game and not just goofing around. So far everything you've said I've already seen.
I'm disappointed in you wtf. danielH is a known quantity, but this is a sad side of you. Good luck on yours and danielH's quest to convince even one person that you speak the truth. My guess is that it will take awhile. "
wtf wrote on Nov 2, 2009 10:15 AM:
sven31 wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:25 AM:
dyan and I aren't privy to secrets. Which just paid attention over the years to the mountains of information all in agreement regarding the "coverup" oops, I mean "what really happened".
Maybe you and danielH should have been a little more critical of the information you believe is the "real" story. "
wtf wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:16 AM:
For dyan and sven31: You both seem very intent on ensuring that the "status quo" is the ***only*** acceptable 'version' of what happened to JFK....in that case, you might want to check out this site:
http://www.prouty.org/
But, as "puppet master" (to quote you, sven), I predict neither of you will; you will just continue with your dispersions and ad hominem attacks. LOL! "
sven31 wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:16 AM:
Sorry you feel that way. But all this "information" that has come out in the last 40+ years is nothing but the recollections of people who might have been bit players and have spent the intervening years seeking notice for their stories, likely enhanced. when they told their stories on 11-23-63 everyone listened but with nothing new to add, they were of little use. Think of Kato Kalin.
As to proof, the Warren Commision, many many recollections, documentaries, newspaper and magazine articles, official reports from law enforcement, government agents all the same thing. Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, fired three rounds two of which hit Kennedy and one of thoughs hit Governor Connely.
The "non-believers" or "conspiracy" side latches on to doctored or incorrectly interpreted video, photos, audio clips along with accounts of individual who claim to have been here or there and saw or said or did something that may or may not have happened. If it's "unbelievable", it's because it's unbelievable. "
wtf wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:12 AM:
sven31 wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:04 AM:
Nice pictures the color shot seems to match the Zapruder film frame(s) of the top of Kennedy's head blowing open.
I'm not sure what the b/w image proves, other than he had an incision above the sternum, consistant with a tracheostomy as the attending physicians claimed.
The document is interesting but only to the degree that there are large numbers of people who had minor involvement that day, and for some reason came foreward weeks, months, or years later with accounts contrary to official version.
The doctors who preformed the autopsy (I belive in Dallas and in Washington) were not pathologists and did not routinely perform autopsies. This has added to the confusion and second guessing over the years.
I don't see how these change anything other than Kennedy was shot in the upper back, exited out of his trachea.
The shot to his head blew most of his brains out all over Jacki, the limo and the street. "
wtf wrote on Nov 2, 2009 9:01 AM:
And why, pray tell, are only you and dyan privy to the "facts" sven? I've been reading all of the posts and neither you, nor dyan, have posted anything of real substance....the only real thing I've read by either of you is ridicule and making fun of danielh, dogs and myself for pointing out areas to be researched.
I believe you and dyan "protesteth just a bit too much." "
sven31 wrote on Nov 2, 2009 6:19 AM:
I can't see any reference to a web link from your earlier posts. There was one you said you would share privately, but didn't want to post it.
So what is the link (to the website, not the tramps and the grassy knoll and the guy in the sewer)?
I'll read dogs' but I see right now that one of them looks like another oliver stone reference. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 2, 2009 6:14 AM:
You have emmotional problems. Big emmotional problems. Seek help. If you can't afford it, call a crisis line or go to the library and get a book. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 2, 2009 6:13 AM:
The JFK assassination was not a work of fiction you read in high school. Step back into the real world. I have no idea what your litterary reference has to do with this.
And the prime minister of England at the time was...... It's better if you use all names except for the one you don't know, it implies your making it up. What was FDR's involvement? I know what he was doing at the time, just trying to see if you do. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 2, 2009 6:07 AM:
I have read a lot about it, seen many documentaries, and remember the event as it happened in '63. I've read the Warren report a couple of times. I remember in '67, one of the networks, CBS I think did a report on the Warren Commission report, showing that it happened as reported.
It's more than (as danielH says)"" dogs4you: People need to know which keywords to enter into google.com. "
You have to be able to discriminate truth from fiction. I'm beginning to think you can't discriminate what is made up and what is fact. "
galtguy wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:43 PM:
Sven, I'm still waiting for you to answer my question. YOU'RE A FRAUD! "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:08 PM:
Lusitainia: Conspiracy involving FDR, Churchill, Woodrow Wilson, and Prime Minister of Great Britain. Objective: USA is to enter the war.
Pearl Harbor: Conspiracy involving FDR and Winston Churchill, discussed in the Atlantic Charter prior to WW-II. Objective: USA is to enter the war.
Stock Market crash: Pay-up time, at the expiration of chapter 11 bankruptcy of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, orchestrated by bankers.
9/11 Objective: establish Homeland Security. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:01 PM:
You don't even know what you are saying. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:56 PM:
Actually, several people understand, and we are close friends.
However, they don't care to spend their time in these comment columns. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:54 PM:
Later, one of them became famous as a Watergate burglar.
The 3-tramps aroused suspicion at the scene because they were dressed in raggedy clothes, but sparkly clean like they got a shower and square meals every day. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:51 PM:
Actually, I discovered this information about 2-years ago. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:49 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:48 PM:
Actually, whoever asserts and claims a fact is the one who bears the burden of proof to support that fact. It doesn't matter which party is making the claim.
However if someone claims they hold evidence, they can be challenged to produce it. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:42 PM:
Still, the animals managed to make an excuse for how their old friend really was not taken to the butcher, although they never saw him again. "
dogs4you wrote on Nov 1, 2009 8:42 PM:
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 5:55 PM:
Assume it is GHWB:
How do you know it was Daley Plaza?
How do you know it's 11-22-63?
How do you know it's Dallas or even Texas?
This is where the photo thing always trips up. There is no corroborating evidence that photo's purported to be taken of someone at a time and a place are actually of that person, at that location at that time.
When I say google something, it's with the unstated understanding that the reader will be exposed to the truth as well as mis-informed and deceptive information. It is up to the reader to use his/her best judgement as to the validity of claims made there.
As Dyan said, the burden of proof is on those making the claim, not those who are stating fact.
BTW: No problem
Good Luck "
dogs4you wrote on Nov 1, 2009 5:21 PM:
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 4:25 PM:
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 4:25 PM:
I'll be howling for weeks about these!
Pearl Harbor: Conspiracy of the upper echelon of the IJN and the emporer.
Lusitainia: Conspiracy of the captain of submarine that put two fish in her.
Stock Market Crash: Consipiacy by Herbert Hoover, well maybe not a conspiracy, just bad advice.
9/11: Conspiracy by a small group of lunatice arabs which we will have killed all of them someday.
As to legal advise, I don't think anyone understands your view. No one.
Maybe you could try it in a real court of law and see how far it goes?
As for "Just one photograph reveals the fact of an elaborate conspiracy"-- isn't it always something like this the fringe offers as evidence to prove it's true. "Elaborate conspiracy" sounds like it involves a lot of people.
I propose the "secret service agent with a big grin" was annoyed that he had bugs in his teeth.
Of course they were all over LBJ. The president was now in their car. "
dyan wrote on Nov 1, 2009 3:37 PM:
dogs4you wrote on Nov 1, 2009 3:20 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 1:50 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 1:49 PM:
Just one photograph reveals the fact of an elaborate conspiracy, with numerous parties aware of the situation, all playing a role in an elaborate plan. Clearly secret service stood-down from protecting the president, while they responded immediately to protect LBJ.
The gentleman in the first car behind the president was grinning from ear-to-ear.
Afterward, a critical executive order was on-file inside Air Force One, awaiting LBJ's signature, one which rescinded Kennedy's order. "
dogs4you wrote on Nov 1, 2009 1:44 PM:
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:25 AM:
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:23 AM:
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:22 AM:
Amelia Erhardt, the moon landing thing, Elvis' death: Real.
The masons: I'm not going there. They are so secretive that you can't confirm anything.
RFK: My same sources say he was a conspiracy also, but the evidence is weaker, and I don't think it is so important to investigate.
Pearl Harbor: Definitely a conspiracy, along with the sinking of the Lusitania, the stock market crash, and 9/11.
Area 51: I don't want to be bothered with this one. It doesn't matter.
Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance: I don't know the issues on this one, but JFK's assassanition is more important.
Judge Crater: I don't know who this is.
Militarization of scouts: Good joke, but realistically, I think it is just indoctrination. Interestingly, the Nazi Gustapo employed citizens to report suspected family and neighbors. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:15 AM:
did you find the photos of the 3-tramps and match them with the Watergate burglars?
OMG. If you dare find that match, then you really have a conspiracy on your hands. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:13 AM:
Show some brains first, then I might be interested. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:12 AM:
I just googled george h. w. bush daley plaza and THAT IS G.H.W. BUSH! So he did have time to put on that thing in Dallas. All the history that I was fed over the last 5 decades MUST have been just indoctrination to cover up not only this but other important "historic" events: Amelia Erhardt, the moon landing thing, Elvis' death, the masons (i hate those evil masons you can just tell they're up to something, probably involving bricks), RFK, Pearl Harbor, Area 51, Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance (I better go back and watch THAT movie for what really happened), and Judge Crater.
I'm spinning. What's next? The militarization of the Girl Scouts and "Bluebirds" along with the Boy Scouts.
Maybe the Four Tops and the Temptations really are the same people and the Monkee's did really play their own instruments. I've always suspected something odd was afoot. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:12 AM:
Why couldn't an international bank pull it off?
In this column, people congratulate each other for quoting T Jefferson, but are they smart enough to apply his principles in true life?
People only know how to chatter. Can't apply the principles that they speak.
Faith without works is dead. - Book of James. "
dyan wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:10 AM:
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:09 AM:
dyan wrote on Nov 1, 2009 11:05 AM:
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:26 AM:
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:25 AM:
1)Was not George H.W. Bush, Sr. a controlling leader within the CIA at the time?
2)Was not George H.W. Bush, Sr. photographed at the scene before the assassination? "
1)No. He was president of his oil company, surely too busy to arrange and produce an assassination.
2) No. Google "photo experts jfk" for more information.
Bush didn't get involved in espionage until the 70's.
If there was some sort of plot for this event, it would have to be massive. Everything would have to fall into place just perfectly and there would be no leaks by those involved or revelations later in life. Certainly after almost 50 years, if someone "involved" was going to say something they would have by now. Instead we get 3rd and 4th tier oddballs who were involved on the periphery that day, none who have anything of substance to add except for the fringe like you who believe every odd notion that has ever come up. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:06 AM:
"He never proved a thing. Disagree. According to Oliver Stone, there were 4-bullets."
Again, thanks for proving my point. Since when is an Oliver Stone movie (and a terribly boring one at that) has somehow become a legitimate reference? "
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:03 AM:
JFK was not "sitting back, comfortably" as he had just been hit (as was the windshield of the limo) with a fragment of the first bullet or piece of concrete that had just hit him.
as for:
"It is consistent with American history, and there are some astounding public records that confirm my writing.
Additionally, I inferred that an average intelligence IQ above 70 is required to comprehend. If you think I am inferring that you don't have such an IQ, I can offer you a remedy of suggesting that instead you have a closed-mind that prevents you from acknowledging truth that is staring you right in the face, and you are in fear and offended by the truth. "
???????
Thank you for proving my point. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 9:56 AM:
I've googled search terms like "photographic expert" with "jfk" you see that many of the "experts" have no real qualifications to be considered "expert" in photographic analysis.
Google other JFK assassination theories and you get much of the same (see any post by danielH for more details- in fact just google any danielH claims and you end up in the same place).
As an example, I really doubt that a shadow on the fence atop the grassy knoll is a second assassin. It's a shadow. "
sven31 wrote on Nov 1, 2009 9:51 AM:
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 9:40 AM:
I am suggesting this defect to you , myself having hundreds of hours of study, in very difficult situations, and I have observed a few courtroom proceedings, and studied some of the recent outcomes. "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 9:37 AM:
I believe that you assumed that the trial was conducted within a constitutional court.
If you believe all of these items, I have a bridge to sell to you.
By my memory, is it correct that Garrison accused Shaw of being a CIA agent involved in the assassination?
Was not George H.W. Bush, Sr. a controlling leader within the CIA at the time?
Was not George H.W. Bush, Sr. photographed at the scene before the assassination? "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 9:33 AM:
I believe you are basing your statements upon the jury verdict, and not upon the facts.
I believe that you are assuming that all evidence was fairly presented to the jury, without any of the evidence being unfairly suppressed by the judge.
I believe that you are assuming that the DA (Garrison?) truly and faithfully upheld and executed his duties and responsibilities according to his oath of office.
I believe that you are even assuming that he actually had an oath of office. (I don't have any evidence for this DA in particular, but I do for another.)
I believe that you are assuming that jury instructions were fairly written, and that the jury was fully and completely advised of their duties and powers.
...continued "
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 9:28 AM:
However, no breaks from truth.
In the list you gave, the only important item was the allegation that he ruined the life of an innocent man.
Otherwise:
manaic depressive: Irrelevant.
DA thought he was nuts: Irrelevant.
Innocent man. Possible.
He never proved a thing. Disagree. According to Oliver Stone, there were 4-bullets. "
dyan wrote on Nov 1, 2009 5:31 AM:
danielh wrote on Nov 1, 2009 12:01 AM:
It matters that garrison stood up for what he believed was correct.
Apparently you can't see that quality in others. "
danielh wrote on Oct 31, 2009 6:35 PM:
dyan wrote on Oct 31, 2009 1:35 PM:
dyan wrote on Oct 31, 2009 12:57 PM:
wtf wrote on Oct 31, 2009 11:45 AM:
sven31....and your **facts** are....? Please cite your source(s)....you, too, dyan....I'm still waiting. "
dyan wrote on Oct 31, 2009 11:12 AM:
danielh wrote on Oct 31, 2009 10:59 AM:
It is consistent with American history, and there are some astounding public records that confirm my writing.
Additionally, I inferred that an average intelligence IQ above 70 is required to comprehend. If you think I am inferring that you don't have such an IQ, I can offer you a remedy of suggesting that instead you have a closed-mind that prevents you from acknowledging truth that is staring you right in the face, and you are in fear and offended by the truth. "
danielh wrote on Oct 31, 2009 12:07 AM:
There isn't any requirement for sven to enjoy my presentment of facts, in sven's jurisdiction. "
danielh wrote on Oct 31, 2009 12:01 AM:
According to your scenario, the same bullet that exited the front of his neck made an entrance in his upper back, actually around the 1st-2nd rib, according to the nice hole in his shirt.
The fact that Gerald Ford altered the location of the hole in his shirt is confirmed by Gerald Ford himself, who was questioned on why he moved the bullet hole in his shirt. He made the excuse that the American people would understand the report better if he altered the location of the bullet wound. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 30, 2009 6:11 PM:
Three shots: 1 into the curb, 1 through Kennedy's neck and into Connelly, and 1 into Kennedy's head. That's it and 46 years of crazies and their crazy claims (which is what makes them crazy) won't change those facts. Ever.
No plot by Castro or LBJ or CIA or Mafia or anyone else. Just a nut with a gun taking aim at a passing motorcade. "
danielh wrote on Oct 30, 2009 3:38 PM:
Warren Commissioner Gerald Ford reported the exit was in the front, and the bullet hole in the rear of JFK was an entrance at his neck, thus moving the location of the hole upward about 4-inches. "
dyan wrote on Oct 30, 2009 12:48 PM:
wtf wrote on Oct 30, 2009 12:01 PM:
Keep it coming! "
wtf wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:58 AM:
I said it and now I'll sit and wait for the trolls to come pouring out of the woodwork. LOL!
Keep posting guys, love to read what you write. LOL! "
sven31 wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:54 AM:
sven31 wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:51 AM:
I believe the SS agent (whose name is fairly well known but escapes me) ended up covering mostly Jackie and the president. "
dyan wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:43 AM:
dyan wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:40 AM:
wtf wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:39 AM:
OK, dyan, I'll bite.
And your "proof" is what.....?
Please enlighten us! ;) "
dyan wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:26 AM:
and you guys believe this nonsense? "
wtf wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:16 AM:
Arrested On 9-11
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html?q=fiveisraelis.html
On the day of the 9-11 attacks, former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what the attacks would mean for US-Israeli relations. His quick reply was: "It's very good…….Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)" "
wtf wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:14 AM:
* That JFK was engaged in a bitter secret conflict with Israel over U.S. East policy and that Israel's prime minister resigned in disgust, saying JFK's stance threatened Israel's very survival?
* That JFK's successor, Lyndon Johnson, immediately reversed America's policy toward Israel?
* That the top Mafia figures often alleged to be behind the JFK assassination were only front men for Meyer Lansky?
* That the CIA's liaison to the Mossad, James Angleton, was a prime mover behind the cover-up of the JFK assassination?
After all, Israel loves to document its destruction. LOL! We musn't forget the "Dancing Israelis" of 9/11 or how Netanyahu said how 9/11 would "be good for Israel."
Say what? "
wtf wrote on Oct 30, 2009 11:12 AM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8
And ponder this....JFK Assassinated: watch The Limo Driver
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NisZHDlUKQ&feature=related
Another perspective here:
The Undamaged Zapruder Film
NOTE: The "handholds" on the back of the presidential vehicle where the SS men were "supposed" to be are empty...this is until Jackie starts to climb on the back of the car; then you see the SS man reach out and climb on the vehicle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq1PbgeBoQ4&feature=fvw
Something else that's never brought up actually ties right in with what jramagic posted on 10/28 at 8:43AM...and that is Israel's involvement with JFK's murder.
Yup! I said it and now I'll sit and wait for the trolls to come pouring out of the woodwork. LOL! "
wtf wrote on Oct 30, 2009 10:47 AM:
Hmmm...that tells me there were at least TWO shooters. You say, "no shots from the front" then why was Mrs. Kennedy "reaching BACK" to retrieve part of her husband's skull? This action tells me that entry would have been from the front with the exit wound, being larger, hence losing a piece of the skull.
http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/md/jfk03clr.JPG
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/autopsy/f-1%28n13%29.jpg
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/WBPmovie/ "
danielh wrote on Oct 30, 2009 10:03 AM:
These are all skepticisms which avoid logical thinking.
Why was George H.W. Bush, Sr., CIA agent or supervisor, standing at the scene of the crime, on a sidewalk, holding up the wall behind him?
Why were the 3 tramps present both at Dallas crime, and also at Watergate hotel?
easier to say Castro did it than to answer these questions. "
danielh wrote on Oct 30, 2009 10:00 AM:
My offering is simple, but offends prior thinking.
I am a scientist, not a skeptic, and I don't have an agenda. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 30, 2009 5:06 AM:
I didn't say you thought Johnson had anything to do with it, but this has been a theory regarding the assassination for, well, since 11-23-63.
Also ridiculus:
Oswald was aiming for Connoly who was secnav when he got booted out of the marines which is part of the navy.
Castro did it.
The mob did it.
Do you have any skepticism for any theory about anything, or just the ones that are most likely true? You seem to latch on to only the most outlandish, complicated, step-wise possibilities that have to follow a precise complicated pattern where everything has to fall into place exactly schemes.
Usually, the simplest answer is the most likely.
It seems every one who might have benefitted from JFK assassination, ended up the worst for it. "
danielh wrote on Oct 29, 2009 10:58 PM:
A conspiracy is necessary to conceal from the debtor-slave US citizens that Kennedy’s assassination prevented the escape from bondage of the US citizen debtor-slaves, who are being held as surety for the UNITED STATES bankruptcy.
Everything is a conspiracy because UNITED STATES and USA are operating in bankruptcy, with US citizens as surety. Their servitude is voluntary.
If the average IQ of the debtor-slave US citizens ever goes over 70, they will simply stop being surety.
UNITED STATES and USA are fiction corporations registered on the public record at London, England, and that this corporation is bankrupt from the Revolutionary War which the US-slaves believe they won.
US citizens cannot be allowed to learn that their loan with European bankers taken out by their supposed "founding forefathers" is still not paid. "
danielh wrote on Oct 29, 2009 10:47 PM:
I never saw any evidence that LBJ was involved. "
danielh wrote on Oct 29, 2009 10:46 PM:
Additionally, just prior to his death, Kennedy was campaigning against the Federal Reserve, giving speechs about the benefit of a US Treasury-backed currency.
I saw one of these speeches somewhere. I couldn't believe it. "
danielh wrote on Oct 29, 2009 10:42 PM:
If you have an address that you are willing to get spammed, post it here, and I'll send you the link. You can get lost reading the articles in there if I send it to you. i'll try to watch if you post it here. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 29, 2009 6:35 PM:
It wasn't a crossing shot (which would be very hard with a rifle), but a shot at a target(s) moving away mostly, maybe not directly, but mostly directly. In addition, the car wasn't moving very fast, at least initially, and it wasn't that far away, I think 60 yds on the first, 80yds by the last, at least I read that somewhere.
The rifle was a pos so there was a lot of luck involved.
A military or paramilitary sniper would never choose a rifle like that. The choice of caliber was just terrible. Again, good marksmenship and a lot of luck.
For those looking for a conspiracy, what did Johnson get out of it? He didn't prosper as a result, he left office when he probably would have been re-elected and certainly, after RJK was shot, he could've re-entered the race.
Was it GHWB's plan to assisinate Kennedy so that he (Bush) would be voted out of office 20+ years later?
These connections don't make sense.
Nobody rumoured to be involved came out ahead in the end, so why believe it? "
sven31 wrote on Oct 29, 2009 6:03 PM:
I'll bet that stayed with her a while.
No shots from the front. All from the rear.
Maybe danielH can explain why we didn't find the final bullet?
Why does everything have to be a conspiracy? Silver certificates? Where do you get this stuff? "
sven31 wrote on Oct 29, 2009 5:56 PM:
For the second time I find myself siding with Dyan.
These are the facts:
Lee Harvey Oswald was a good shot.
The first shot hit a curb, along a sidewalk (which was latter removed), fragments crack the windshield of the limo, hit Kennedy in the back of the head when upon, he says "I've been hit".
The second shot passed through Kennedy's shirt through his neck and into Gov. John Connoly who, most don't know was not sitting directly in front of JFK, but slightly to the inside, hence, no magic bullet. The third round hit Kennedy in the back of the head, fragmented.
George H.W. Bush was not leaning against the book building or any other building in Dallas. It is a person who looks like him. He also looks like Rob Petrey.
Kennedy remained upright throughout because he was wearing a back brace.
The last words he heard were Mrs. Connely saying "you can't say Dallas doesn't love you Mr. President." "
danielh wrote on Oct 29, 2009 5:38 PM:
danielh wrote on Oct 29, 2009 5:36 PM:
They know the motive.
They don't have any reason to prove it to you. "
danielh wrote on Oct 29, 2009 5:35 PM:
You can't prove this, so you are the one who is speculating.
"Where are the facts?" If people view the situation with an open-mind, the facts will come to them. Facts are available.
"that would hold up in court" What kind of court? One that is controlled by the same people that assassinated JFK?
people's court, yes. Evidence presented to a people's court would bring a conviction.
"Truth is, there aren't any." Now, you have the burdern of proof. "
dyan wrote on Oct 29, 2009 9:31 AM:
jramagic wrote on Oct 29, 2009 6:56 AM:
that are usually buried, destroyed, discredited by those who benefit by such, and the "spam" of wild-eyed nutcase tales which are then broadly applied as comparisons to any and all alternative scenarios to discredit them. "The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one"...a quote by the Master Perpetrator of Mass Illusion- Adolf Hitler. Google "Hitler quotes"...you will be amazed at how many
of his "quote" techniques you see clearly being used by our Mass Media today! Scary. "
danielh wrote on Oct 28, 2009 10:33 PM:
... and how on earth Teddy Kennedy can spend his life with this knowledge, I cannot believe.
If I had that knowledge, and if I agreed with my family to be secret,
I'd be irresponsible and take up drinking, and gain 100 pounds. "
danielh wrote on Oct 28, 2009 10:32 PM:
Since the JFK assassination, I believe the following people were involved somehow either in the assassination itself, or the cover-up, or a son thereof.
LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Bush, Clinton, Bush.
Not Reagan, but he was elected with Bush as his running-mate. "
danielh wrote on Oct 28, 2009 10:28 PM:
danielh wrote on Oct 28, 2009 10:28 PM:
Still photo from the front of JFK limo views three cars to the rear, where Vice President LBJ is riding, and secret service agents respond by reflex to protect the vice president, whereas the secret service guarding the president are still standing around looking stupid, like they don't know anything is wrong. The response to protect LJB clearly shows that Secret Service has the message that they are under attack.
In the same still photograph, one car behind the president, there is a man in the front seat with a s***-grin from ear-to-ear, salivating of the wounded president after the first shot was fired. "
danielh wrote on Oct 28, 2009 10:25 PM:
The location of a bullet hole in the president's shirt is in the wrong location to be consistent with the bullet in his neck coming from behind.
How about Warren Commission member Gerald Ford changing the location of the bullet hole so that people can more clearly understand the incident and not get confused. "
danielh wrote on Oct 28, 2009 10:23 PM:
Whenever a president orders US treasury to issue silver certificates, secret service just happens to carry around with them on the airplane, an unsigned executive order for the vice president to sign, just in case the president might be assassinated that day. "
danielh wrote on Oct 28, 2009 10:21 PM:
Hmmm. Let's see.
George W. Bush, Sr. was photographed at the scene of the crime, before the shooting.
The three tramps were composed of one who later was a Watergate Burglar.
Uhhh... the democrats in the Watergate Hotel had incriminating evidence against the three tramps. "
dyan wrote on Oct 28, 2009 9:55 PM:
dyan wrote on Oct 28, 2009 8:59 PM:
dogs4you wrote on Oct 28, 2009 8:20 PM:
dyan wrote on Oct 28, 2009 7:00 PM:
You don't have to be a genius to hit a target with a scope 100 yards away in 6.5 seconds and score two out of three hits. "
dogs4you wrote on Oct 28, 2009 6:54 PM:
dyan wrote on Oct 28, 2009 6:39 PM:
We don't trust the gov't to give us the straight scoop on Kennedy, but we trust them with our health care and this global warming nonsense? "
jramagic wrote on Oct 28, 2009 3:21 PM:
wtf wrote on Oct 28, 2009 12:31 PM:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/JFK/jfk.html "
B.C. From Stockton wrote on Oct 28, 2009 11:05 AM:
jramagic wrote on Oct 28, 2009 8:43 AM:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311# "
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