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The following stories have received the most reader comments during the last 7 days.
- The country's mess is our fault (130)
- Obama is not a moderate (129)
- Sarah Palin's book hits the shelves: Locals react (60)
- Despite budget cuts, some Lodi Unified School District salaries continue to rise (49)
- Lodi City Council plans to cap number of taco trucks at 22 (45)
- Lodi Flames slim playoff chances vanish in setback to Tracy Bulldogs (25)
- Tokay in, traveling to unbeaten No. 3 Grant for football playoffs (25)
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- Tokay Tigers blow late 27-point lead in loss to Wolf Pack (22)
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ADVERTISEMENT
National health care is good
Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:13 AM PDT
I have hesitated to write because of the vociferous attacks regarding President Obama's health proposals and the people who support them.
When I came to America in 1963, I was shocked that the richest country in the world didn't have a national health insurance plan. England has had this since 1948.
Individuals can be found to denigrate the health plans of Europe, Scandinavia and Canada, but universal care is something demanded by the majority of citizens. I take umbrage to the misinformation aimed at Britain's national health plan.
My brother, 66 years old (now retired) and living in England, worked for a funeral home. His employer voluntarily paid private health insurance of $182 a month. He recently had a heart attack. He was rushed to the emergency room in an ambulance where he received immediate attention. He had a stent put in and returned home as soon as he was well enough, had visits from the health nurse, was monitored and had follow-up visits with his surgeon. The medications he recited sounded the same as those prescribed in America.
National health covered all the costs. However, his employer's private insurance company sent him a check for $1,400 because he used National Health. Many private insurance companies in England will not cover existing conditions or illnesses brought on by those conditions. Some will cover existing conditions but they pay very little.
Some years ago my daughter had an operation in England. She was hospitalized for five days, had a nurse visit at my brother's home to change dressings and was seen several times during her recovery by the surgeon and general practitioner. The fee, approximately $1,400.
In America, she had a recurrence of exactly the same problem. She had no insurance. Being denied immediate care, she was admitted as an emergency, operated on and sent home two days later with an appointment to see the surgeon in one month. The fee: $7,000.
Falsehoods and negative advertising threaten to scare Americans into believing a public option isn't in their best interests. Without a public option or allowing citizens to buy into Medicare, I doubt things will change. For unbiased information, watch the informative programs and debates pro and con on both KVIE stations.
Barbara Bagley
Lodi
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Brian wrote on Nov 1, 2009 9:50 PM:
You find a 50% tax rate entertaining, Uh? Now I know you're truly a liberal. "
voter wrote on Nov 1, 2009 4:17 PM:
Brian wrote on Nov 1, 2009 3:42 PM:
Once again. I'm not one of your pupils you can indoctrinate. :~ "
Brian wrote on Nov 1, 2009 3:39 PM:
These numbers are what it takes to have this nationalized healthcare. Evidently you're not aware this is what it is in Europe. I thought you knew everything about Obama and how he wants to emulate European economics. I was wrong. "
Brian wrote on Nov 1, 2009 3:34 PM:
" Just for giggles, Brian, how about you define "the line of socialism" for us? "
-A 50% tax rate for the people of this country is a fair definition of "the line of socialism". You seem prepared to fork over another 20 or 30 percent to get your nationalized healthcare. Oh, I forgot, you insist it's free. "
Brian wrote on Nov 1, 2009 3:31 PM:
You decry "dismantling 1/6 of the country's economy"
-It seems to me your loyalty to Obama
has no boundries. Millions of jobs lost
is of no concern to you. Love is blind. "
Brian wrote on Nov 1, 2009 3:18 PM:
Chuckle. I work six days a week. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:34 AM:
You rant about government intrusion while panhandling for free government handouts. You decry "dismantling 1/6 of the country's economy" while contributing nothing to it yourself.
As always, you exhibit a total logic disconnect; this is why I love seeing your blogs - so people can witness the ignorance for themselves. "
voter wrote on Nov 1, 2009 10:11 AM:
Brian wrote on Nov 1, 2009 7:33 AM:
" "the line of socialism"?
LOL! "
-There you have it folks. Voter is implying there isn't a line of Socialism. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 31, 2009 8:30 PM:
n
1. (Economics) an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state. It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels Compare capitalism
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any of various social or political theories or movements in which the common welfare is to be achieved through the establishment of a socialist economic system
3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in Leninist theory) a transitional stage after the proletarian revolution in the development of a society from capitalism to communism: characterized by the distribution of income according to work rather than need "
voter wrote on Oct 31, 2009 8:01 PM:
LOL! "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 31, 2009 7:54 PM:
voter wrote on Oct 31, 2009 7:49 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 31, 2009 7:44 PM:
voter wrote on Oct 31, 2009 7:39 PM:
Your reasoning is erroneous. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 31, 2009 7:27 PM:
http://www.infoplease.com/cig/economics/government-share-economy.html
'In the U.S. economy, total government spending at all levels represents about 28 percent of GDP. Private spending makes up the other 72 percent.'
from this article:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/economy_and_health_care_are_ma.html
'Health care consumes 17 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product, which is hardly small change.'
28% + 17% = 45% of our GDP is consumed by the government.
Shall we talk about Socialism now, or after Cap and Trade passes and puts the dagger into our capitalist society? "
Brian wrote on Oct 31, 2009 6:09 PM:
" Isn't 'big government' propped up by the 'big' taxes that the private sector pays to it? "
-Yes Sparky,
But you can't convince Voter that lowering taxes stimulates the economy
and improves the ability of the free markets to innovate and be self-reliant.
Instead, she is also a proponent of dismantling 1/6th of the nation's economy. "
Brian wrote on Oct 31, 2009 5:58 PM:
" You're not making any sense, Brian. The healthcare you depend on is provided by "big government". The private sector is not working for you at all. "
-There you have it folks. You just can't convince some people that big government
isn't the answer. It's because of big government that many can't afford health insurance. If our government
didn't slap so many regulations on the health insurance companies they would be
able to lower their rates. Not to mention how far tort reform would contribute to lower rates too. I suspect voter has many lawyer friends who benefit from the lack of tort reform. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 31, 2009 5:38 PM:
voter wrote on Oct 31, 2009 4:40 PM:
Brian wrote on Oct 31, 2009 4:11 PM:
Brian wrote on Oct 31, 2009 4:09 PM:
Did the program work OK for you? Do you hate the government for providing it for you? In retrospect, would you rather have just taken your chances and prayed that everything would work out alright?
-Yes, No, No.
I still see Billy is struggling with the fact that BIG government is not the answer to all our problems. I have come to the conclusion that he has no intentions of changing his mind that government intrusion is a better approach than free market economics.
How about that 2.5 percent profit margin
those health insurance companies are making, Billy? Heaven forbid we let them even make that! "
Brian wrote on Oct 31, 2009 3:59 PM:
The liberals love this government insurance idea, however, they have absolutely no clue what they are cheerleading for.
-This is the understatement of the century. Perhaps the libs may eventually come around and realize the population that will be most negatively affect by this bill are Seniors. Oh, but Billy will just say they don't need to live into their 80's or 90's anyway. "
Brian wrote on Oct 31, 2009 3:55 PM:
Have a nice Halloween. I'll look forward to your next round of ASSUMPTIONS about me. I see you decided to skate around the facts of this health care bill and instead attack me.
Liberals are so predictable. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Oct 31, 2009 12:56 PM:
Hmm... now let me think... you know, Brian, I can't remember when I asked you to join me in anything, much less your assinine claim of destroying 1/6 of the economy. Are you just channeling Fox again?
No, you see, I asked you about the times you, as a destitute father unable to adequately provide for his own children, used the welfare health care system.
Did the program work OK for you? Do you hate the government for providing it for you? In retrospect, would you rather have just taken your chances and prayed that everything would work out alright?
Tell us, Brian, about how the high costs of health care are causing such a struggl- oops, I guess really there *is* no struggle to pay at your house, is there? Nor is there any contribution on your part to "1/6 of the nations's economy" - you use FREE health care, don't you? "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 31, 2009 12:14 PM:
'Billy, you still haven't come up with a reasonable explanation to why I should join you in being a proponent of dismantling 1/6th of the nations economy.'
No one else has either. The liberals love this government insurance idea, however, they have absolutely no clue what they are cheerleading for. "
Brian wrote on Oct 31, 2009 9:06 AM:
" When will Brian stand tall and, in a loud clear voice, speak up about how his family was saved by public healthcare?
Let's hear it, Brian - let's hear from a man who needed it and has used it. "
-Using public healthcare when it is necessary and being a proponent of the government taking over 1/6th of the nations economy are two different things. Billy, you still haven't come up with a reasonable explanation to why I should join you in being a proponent of dismantling 1/6th of the nations economy. "
Aimee wrote on Oct 30, 2009 10:29 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 29, 2009 5:56 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 29, 2009 5:45 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 29, 2009 5:44 PM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Oct 29, 2009 3:13 PM:
I was thinking the same thing about Brian, then I thought he may be at the free health clinic getting free flu shots for himself and the kids. "
Aimee wrote on Oct 29, 2009 9:53 AM:
dyan wrote on Oct 29, 2009 9:34 AM:
Billy Rubin wrote on Oct 29, 2009 5:59 AM:
Let's hear it, Brian - let's hear from a man who needed it and has used it. "
jeff wrote on Oct 28, 2009 5:16 PM:
rantraves wrote on Oct 28, 2009 11:57 AM:
jeff wrote on Oct 28, 2009 10:53 AM:
rantraves wrote on Oct 27, 2009 7:04 PM:
jeff wrote on Oct 27, 2009 6:13 PM:
except that Islam is a religion, not a government or group or entity.
intended meanings aside, would it make sense to say Hell, Christianity would do a better job... "
rantraves wrote on Oct 27, 2009 5:16 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 4:44 PM:
'You see, Lodian (another ideologically blinded and abrasive online commenter), this isn't difficult...' - Gary Bardon "
Aimee wrote on Oct 27, 2009 4:34 PM:
It's worth a read. "
Aimee wrote on Oct 27, 2009 4:33 PM:
"sparkly: No one wants to talk to you. "
I'll talk with 'ya.
Lodian, sometimes, I swear.... "
Lodian wrote on Oct 27, 2009 3:51 PM:
rantraves wrote on Oct 27, 2009 3:27 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 2:46 PM:
sven31 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 1:56 PM:
You really don't have anything do you? Aside from your "hammer" which apparently is a metaphore for nothing. I can't believe you think you could use that and no one called you on it. I say Drop it!!!! Do your best. C'm on!
You are imature and have nothing but hate for any and everything that is not you. If you were a child or maybe a teenager it might be understandable, but your a middle aged man and can't even debate the most black and white topics without resorting to ridicule, mockery, and name calling. In the words of goltguy: "Your a Fraud"
Did growing up rich help you craft this mental state, this persona you try to convey of a knowledgable elder gent?
A couple of posts (more like one) and I had your number. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 1:48 PM:
Although I don't share your position, you raise valid points that are something to ponder. Americans shouldn't be banned from medical care because they are too rich for welfare and too poor to afford coverage. Maybe a public option or some other program could eliminate that gap. "
Lodian wrote on Oct 27, 2009 1:23 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 12:17 PM:
1143 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 11:53 AM:
Second: Any Health Care Plan that needs to be developed "behind" closed doors by a few politicians is very dangerous.
Third: Any Bill that has a "Public Option"; government program or government over-sight is a joke. This government promised TRANSPARENCY. What do you think? "
rantraves wrote on Oct 27, 2009 10:29 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 9:51 AM:
So, when this administration implements a government run healthcare system, isn't it logical to assume stipulations, rules, and dictations are going to result from this program as well?
If you are on the government option and you are considerably overweight, is it really a stretch to think that the government will regulate whether or not you can eat twinkies? You have accepted their government run healthcare plan, so they now have the 'right' to stipulate, rule, and dictate to you how to stay healthy in the same manor they do with government bailed out businesses, right?
This is not just about trying to help the uninsured become insured. It's about the government seizing a huge control over the individual rights of the American citizen. Wake up people. Get your heads out of the sand. Look at the bigger picture here. Don't be a drone. Do a little thinking and research on your own and stop cheerleading for something you don't understand. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 8:20 AM:
Have some dignity will you? You sound like 12 year olds, growing up on daddy's dime, crying 'causse you aren't getting your way and look to each other to reinforce your aberrant behavior.
Grow up. "
rantraves wrote on Oct 27, 2009 8:01 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 7:06 AM:
'I say it again for you. Maybe you will read it this time."
He doesn't read anything anyone writes. Nor will he asnswer any questions, or address any legitimate point you may have.'
I agree completely. I converse with him simply so that he can continue to expose himself as an irrelevant knucklehead here. Every time he posts something, he showcases his ignorance. I enjoy putting the spotlight on that. He is representing the left thinkers here on this blog. He is their leader in this government option debate. Ahhhhh. The liberals must be so proud. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 6:27 AM:
Maybe rantraves if you were so objectionalble in your posts, someone would actually read them. You should have noticed that I did read your posts as I copied and pasted several examples of your foolish notions.
Maybe goatguy, if you didn't call people names and weren't on this strange boycott against me (of which you are the only one boycotting - that idea worked out well), and had something that wasn't from Rush 24/7, you might have an original idea. And your questions aren't questions. They're statements. You want reactions to your statements, not answers to questions. Putting an "?" doesn't make it a question. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 6:20 AM:
Poor goltguy. No one listens. Go back to golt and read the Bee. Nobody here wants to read your your monologue. "
galtguy wrote on Oct 26, 2009 10:12 PM:
HE'S A FRAUD. "
galtguy wrote on Oct 26, 2009 10:08 PM:
"I say it again for you. Maybe you will read it this time."
He doesn't read anything anyone writes. Nor will he asnswer any questions, or address any legitimate point you may have. You're being duped. I've read your exchanges with this idiot and haven't you noticed he talks about everything under the sun EXCEPT what you addressed?
Sven is a FRAUD. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 9:21 PM:
Aimee wrote on Oct 26, 2009 8:06 PM:
LOL!! Evidence that there ARE good attorneys out there! Good one Gator. "
Rhodie wrote on Oct 26, 2009 7:11 PM:
I know you already said it but thought i would share with the class anyway.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday/ "
rantraves wrote on Oct 26, 2009 6:42 PM:
Gator wrote on Oct 26, 2009 6:23 PM:
my choice what I do with my money. If anyone should have a problem
with that you can take it up with my attorneys Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson
I sure they will make my feelings clear… "
sven31 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 5:25 PM:
Second, there aren't 1300 companies competing for mail service.
Now as to the 1300 ins. co.s, and state lines, that would have been a nice little thing to know before posting responses.
So the original claim about 1300 companies and their profit margins does not mean what I presume the poster of record made it out to be. How much else did you leave out?
Hmmm...so much for the boycott gg. Ineffective as usual. "
LodiFreeThinker wrote on Oct 26, 2009 5:18 PM:
I couldn't agree more. What we have is a very sick healthcare system. Its morbidly obese, its choked with regulation, and its full of toxic opportunists.
Rather than eliminate whats making the system sick, the socialists want to put it down, and build a new one in its place.
We need to eliminate waste and corruption within the system. We need tort reform, we need transparency, and we need to allow for consumer choice. Finally, we need some innovation, but first we have to allow it to happen.
Anyway you cut it, replacing this broken system run by thieves and fraudsters, with a new system run by thieves and fraudsters with government offices... wont get us anywhere, not anywhere I would want to be anyway. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 4:59 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Oct 26, 2009 4:57 PM:
If the government dropped it's postal rates to to half, what would happen to UPS and the others? On top of the rate drop the new USPO will also require everyone to use the service even if they don't want to. This is what the government is doing with healthcare. Slashing it's costs to profit loss levels and looking for tax dollars to make up for it.
Reform is needed but government invasion (nice image huh?) of the healthcare industry isn't. Tort reform and (what I think would make the biggest diference) investigations and prosecution for price fixing for supplies in the hospital.
Insurance companies and medicare should sue hospitals and suppliers for marking the price of supplies to above market value.
But in no way should healthcare be forced on those that don't want it. "
Gator wrote on Oct 26, 2009 4:50 PM:
In the market 3.10. Breakfast for 2, Bacon and eggs plus 2 coffees anywhere from 26 to 28.00, Pepsi 2.00 This was in Fairmont hot Springs
Radium Hot springs, Golden British Columbia and Banff Alberta. The Country is truly Beautiful but I was glad to cross back over… "
Rhodie wrote on Oct 26, 2009 4:45 PM:
Sven, would you let the government come in and take 1/2 your take home pay and give it to the less fortunate? Not 1/2? Then what? How much money should the government take from one group who has worked hard for it to give to another group in need? "
Aimee wrote on Oct 26, 2009 4:11 PM:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6833149.ece
Whether you're a liberal or a conservative, this will give you pause for thought. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 4:11 PM:
'You'd think with 1300 insurance companies in America, you could find a cheaper policy but you don't. How come?'
I say it again for you. Maybe you will read it this time.
'Competition would be if we were able to purchase any plan thru any insurer in any state, much like auto insurance. Some states have few options. If you were free to purchase it from any state other than your own, real competition would happen.'
You can not currently buy insurance across state lines. If they would simply change that, you open up competition to all 1300 companies. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 4:05 PM:
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." -- Karl Marx
Erie how similar the two quotes are. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 4:04 PM:
You'd think with 1300 insurance companies in America, you could find a cheaper policy but you don't. How come?
Is this competition or pretend competition? Maybe if the government offers that "1" plan that is cheaper than what all the others have agreed to some of them will see the light and lower their premiums. Makes sense now doesn't it? "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 3:59 PM:
Again, can anyone explain why the government option is so critical in reforming our healthcare system? "
sven31 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 3:57 PM:
Have you expended all your -isms yet?
socialism
marxism
totalitarianism
Maybe if you guys put your considerable energy into making this a better country, you could have a feeling of accomplishment rather than a feeling of obstructionism (there's one you didn't think of yet).
Is there anything you guys aren't upset or angry over? It doesn't seem like a good way to live, stress, anger, resentment, more anger, etc. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 3:36 PM:
'Some of us (and this is not absolute) feel those who can could and should contribute a fair share for those less fortunate.'
Are you familiar with Karl Marx, Sven? Because you sound just like him.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." -- Karl Marx
Re-distribution of wealth. That is what obama wants. That is why he is a marxist. Sven, sounds as if you are a marxist as well, no? "
sven31 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 3:17 PM:
What real world solution will there be when disputes of this nature arise (as I am sure will happen)? Will you become a tax patriot and refuse to pay taxes?
What about that 3 year old girl who has a brain tumour? Would you (begrudgingly) contribute to that? Urge others not to pay?
Some of us (and this is not absolute) feel those who can could and should contribute a fair share for those less fortunate. "
rantraves wrote on Oct 26, 2009 3:02 PM:
sven31 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 2:57 PM:
sven31 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 1:45 PM:
You should resign yourself to the fact that we are going to have national health care. Your "arguments" and "comments" and "anecdotal evidence" are not able to be debated. You're all over the place except that the left, democrats, Obama,... are all to blame because Americans are going to be able to get affordable health care.
How will your veiw of national health care change when you become eligible for medicare. I know it's a couple years since you're only 54/55 yo now, but when you get it, will you be complaining then?
You should listen to yourself: "Americans shouldn't be able to see a doctor unless they can afford it. If it's a 3 year old child with a brain tumour and her father is unemployed, well that's just to bad."
Rich american: "yeah, I got to go in for my 3rd lung transplant, I don't want to quit smoking so I just buy a new set of lungs every three years.. just like tires" "
rantraves wrote on Oct 26, 2009 1:16 PM:
sven31 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 11:49 AM:
You and your hammer again. Go ahead. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 11:08 AM:
I notice that they were happy to cite moveon.org as the source for anti insurance information, but didn't say where they got their "real" numbers for insurance co's.
"DO NOT be duped by sven. He is a confirmed FRAUD."
I see the guy from galt is back. Not a lot of intrest in your impromptu poll last week, like none.
How many questions do you need answered today? Maybe if you actually knew so much, you wouldn't have to keep asking everyone for the answer.
This is a nice and expected offering:
"He has his own discussions with his imaginary friends, does not read anything anyone writes, and further will not answer any question you pose. It's like debating a child. Nananana."
Yep. Upper crust all the way.
"Refuse to even acknowledge sven everyone! " The skiy is falling, the sky is falling!! Oh why won't anyone believe me when I say the sky is falling.
Good Luck with your campaign gg.
..or am I just trying to spin you off message. It's working. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 10:55 AM:
" Sorry...it was Jeff, not voter. ; ) "
I guess this somewhat nulls your critism of my paying attention.
My mistake. I meant Jeff instead of Brian. Does this mean I can't count on your support for the public option?
rantraves: "As for that ridiculous "pub-op' pole: When asked to define the "pub-op", the people poled haven't got a clue." and your source for this would be.....?
You don't like insurance companies because of the for profit model?"
I never said I didn't like insurance companies because/for their profit model. I didn't say at all that I didn't like them.
"...but the govt loses money."
Maybe I'm wrong here to, but doesn't the government make the money?
"So, let me get this right: you and your buddies are following the guys who lose the money"
Following the guys who "make" the money rantraves, who "make" the money. "
galtguy wrote on Oct 26, 2009 10:50 AM:
You're waisting your time with sven. Don't you see that? He's a plant. His purpose is to spin you in every direction, constantly going off topic to distract you into following him off topic.
Don't fall for it.
Refuse to even acknowledge sven everyone! "
galtguy wrote on Oct 26, 2009 10:46 AM:
DO NOT be duped by sven. He is a confirmed FRAUD.
He has his own discussions with his imaginary friends, does not read anything anyone writes, and further will not answer any question you pose. It's like debating a child. Nananana.
He's a fraud! "
Rhodie wrote on Oct 26, 2009 9:34 AM:
Bigger Gov=more debt=loss of US $ Value= less purchasing power=inflation=higher and higher prices=more costs to do business=more labor cut backs=more poor=more needing government assistance=bigger government...
More low price competition in business is good. More government owned low price competition in business is bad because the losses create debt and more taxes. "
LodiFreeThinker wrote on Oct 26, 2009 9:03 AM:
Our federal government's track record on matters of financial health, is the worst this world has ever seen.
The health insurance industry is screwed up. The health care industry is screwed up. However, if you look under the covers just a bit, you'll see the government already has its dirty paws all over this system.
When it comes to our most precious commodity, our health, we need LESS government not more.
I am against this so called health care "reform".
I am for real reform. Lets start requiring transparency in the financial aspects of health care. Things don't need to cost anywhere near what they do.
Lets enact tort reform, and eliminate malpractice insurance.
Remove barriers to free trade across borders.
If we actually lower costs, then we will all pay less, and more people will be able to afford the care they need.
There are solutions that are far better than just having the government take it over and "fix" it.... "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 8:05 AM:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091025/ap_on_go_co/us_fact_check_health_insurance
'Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin last year, placing them 35th on the Fortune 500 list of top industries. As is typical, other health sectors did much better — drugs and medical products and services were both in the top 10.'
'But were the Bush years golden ones for health insurers?
Not judging by profit margins, profit growth or returns to shareholders. The industry's overall profits grew only 8.8 percent from 2003 to 2008, and its margins year to year, from 2005 forward, never cracked 8 percent.
The latest annual profit margins of a selection of products, services and industries: Tupperware Brands, 7.5 percent; Yahoo, 5.9 percent; Hershey, 6.1 percent; Clorox, 8.7 percent; Molson Coors Brewing, 8.1 percent; construction and farm machinery, 5 percent; Yum Brands (think KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell), 8.5 percent.'
I guess we need to reform the beer and pizza industry next. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 26, 2009 7:02 AM:
16 -- number of posters on this blog
3 -- number of posters supporting public option
0 -- number of posters that can explain how it works "
rantraves wrote on Oct 26, 2009 6:48 AM:
Uncle Sticky wrote on Oct 25, 2009 8:17 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 7:39 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 7:33 PM:
'That makes me, hick and brian for it.'
It wasn't Brian, it was voter. Yet another example of how you don't pay attention. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 6:32 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 6:27 PM:
'First of all, I'm for it. That makes me, hick and brian for it. Include rantraves and yourself against it...viola.60%!!
See this is what happens when you ask for a poll here. Nobody listens.'
You really ought to pay better attention when you read. Not one single time did I ask for a 'poll for or against the public option'. I only asked if there was anyone here that supports it. That is why no one remarked they were against it. Stop spinning words. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 6:15 PM:
See this is what happens when you ask for a poll here. Nobody listens.
You couldn't do that?
If insurance co.s don't like it, what are they going to do? stop selling policies? I don't think so. Will the top companies go under? Maybe and based on your sides history, you would think that would be good. Others will fill their spots. That's just free market economy.
See you guys get all wired up about this stuff and there is nothing you or I can do to alter it's course. Nothing. You're left counting pages and railing against something you have no control over.
In the end you'll be like a farmer who plows his field a little too early and gets stuck in the mud. You can watch the world drive by, going on with their lives and you're stuck there on your stuck tractor. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 6:10 PM:
'Falsehoods and negative advertising threaten to scare Americans into believing a public option isn't in their best interests.'
Can anyone explain why it IS in our best interest? "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 5:57 PM:
'I don't know what Obama wants. Watch the news. Who can keep up?'
THANK YOU! Finally you have written a great post. Who REALLY KNOWS what is in this 1500 page healthcare bill that you all seem to want to bear hug and defend as if you understand it. No one here can explain it. How can you guys honestly defend what you have so very little understanding of? Stop for 5 minutes and just try to think about this. 1500 unknown pages. Is there anyone here that really knows and understands what it is all about? I doubt it, yet you keep cheerleading for it. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 5:51 PM:
If you do agree with it Sven, could you tell me how it works and how it is going to help you. I'm just trying to understand the specifics about the public option. Maybe you could teach me a few things about it. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 5:45 PM:
sven31 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 5:44 PM:
Spark:
On the liberal left media network NBC this morning (Meet the Press) it was said that 61% of Americans favor a public option. So it should probably be fairly easy to find what you're looking for. Just stop the next 10 people YOU DON'T KNOW and ask them. Six of them should say yes. And then you'll have your answer!! Come on! I can do everything for you.
I'll rely on smokeater8's assessment:
Insurance companies make big, big bucks. They are there to make money for their investors and board. They don't need to charge us so much, and pay our doctors so little. I've had to pay doctors for services (anesthesia) and other expensive proceedures for routine treatments. They were'nt in our plan.
How the hell do you make sure the anesthesiologist is in your plan when they wheel you into the or? I got to pay them, they provided a service. I don't want them tho think I'm an a**h***. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 5:39 PM:
sven31 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 5:33 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 7:44 AM:
" Voter, if this doesn't convince you, nothing else I say will.
2 minute video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk "
It seems to me that at some point in the video you recommended that Obama mentioned beig for a single payer and then later not being for it. The point is, just like you, he can change his mind based on new information or just because he wants to change it. "
rantraves wrote on Oct 25, 2009 4:53 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 4:45 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 25, 2009 2:18 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 25, 2009 2:18 PM:
rantraves wrote on Oct 25, 2009 12:25 PM:
smokeater8 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 11:01 AM:
LOL "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 9:55 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 9:51 AM:
'The video I reference is not from barackobama.com. It's from some other group and from the tone it probably is republican based.'
I never said it came from barackobama.com, it's clearly from youtube. It is obama himself, on video, on audio, saying he supports single payer system. How can you say this is some republican video? That's ridiculous.
Then you wrote:
'And I agree with Billy, $11.00 an hour seems to indicate you should change plans to one less expensive.'
I have already stated that I have no choice to opt out of my unions insurance plan.
Then you wrote:
'What you never changed your mind about something 2 or 3 or 7 years later?'
So you are saying that obama has changed his mind about being a supporter of a single payer system? Show me. Show me one quote, video, audio, interview, that contradicts his original views. "
rantraves wrote on Oct 25, 2009 8:46 AM:
sven31 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 8:44 AM:
How dare you use facts and history and intellect to sway a debate!!
Please return to innuendo and half-truths and outright lying to make your point.
It's the only manner the other side understands.
And use terms like "socialist" and "largest tax increase in history" and "Obama was born in Kenya". Please include some sort of negative statement about Michelle Obama. It doesn't even have to be true. "
rantraves wrote on Oct 25, 2009 8:42 AM:
smokeater8 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 8:31 AM:
smokeater8 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 8:26 AM:
Brian wrote on Oct 25, 2009 8:12 AM:
" i fully support not only a public option, but a single payer system as well. "
-Please don't remind us of this madness of eliminating 1/6th of the nations economy. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 8:11 AM:
1. The video I reference is not from barackobama.com. It's from some other group and from the tone it probably is republican based. Again, as with most concervatives, you omit valuable information such as who sent the video to youtube, and then you try to defuse your lie by claiming it's from President Obama's own website. (Reference:"Voter, if this doesn't convince you, nothing else I say will" 07:44).
And then you say "'the left' ALWAYS presents both sides." Which is it?
And I agree with Billy, $11.00 an hour seems to indicate you should change plans to one less expensive. Or are you waiting for your government provided medicare kick in? You know, the public option of medicare or not medicare.
What you never changed your mind about something 2 or 3 or 7 years later? "
jeff wrote on Oct 25, 2009 7:28 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 7:25 AM:
flyguide wrote on Oct 25, 2009 7:10 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 6:34 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 6:31 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 6:12 AM:
'spaky no its not the goal of the obama administration is to lower cost you need a lesson in economics'
It's not?
'WASHINGTON -- Continuing to promote his plan for the nation's health care system, Wednesday, President Barack Obama urged significant reform in medical insurance coverage in order to save Americans money.'
So you don't think they are trying to cut costs? And, what if the public option does not get into the bill? Hicks, if there is no public option or cost cutting, then what is the purpose of destroying the entire system to build a new one? "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 6:04 AM:
When this bill is passed, they will be collecting revenue (our tax money) for 4 years before the plan even begins. It begins in 2013. So when they say the plan will cost 1 trillion dollars over 10 years, we are only getting coverage for 6 of those years.
I'm still waiting for anyone to say why they like the government option and how they think it will help them. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 25, 2009 5:50 AM:
hicksvilianfromlodi wrote on Oct 25, 2009 3:19 AM:
hicksvilianfromlodi wrote on Oct 25, 2009 3:17 AM:
alf wrote on Oct 24, 2009 4:35 PM:
veritas wrote on Oct 24, 2009 3:32 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 3:21 PM:
'Does anyone here actually support the public option? If so, why do you like it, specifically. I'm just trying to figure out why the public option is so important to fixing the problem.'
Sven, Billy, Voter, Lodian, anyone.... "
Lodian wrote on Oct 24, 2009 2:38 PM:
sparkly seems to be under the impression that the far right are a fair people. "
Rhodie v2.0 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 1:58 PM:
Rhodie v2.0 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 1:54 PM:
The government can lowball prices to whatever they want because they always have tax-payers to pick-up the slack. That is another reason I am always against Government owning business in the US. In the situation above Ford employees would have their tax dollars going to help the competition put them out of business, how is that fair? "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 1:19 PM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 1:01 PM:
To me, it is not all about what I spend on my plan. It is the healthcare that my family and I get in return that most concerns me. Why is congress pushing a government option that they themselves will not enroll into? Probably because the HEALTHCARE they currently receive is far better than a government run program. "
Rhodie v2.0 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 12:53 PM:
let them prove they can run a national program that doesn't add to the threat of national bankrupcy before they take control of more industries.
business week has a nice little write up on Iceland's bankrupcy http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2008/10/iceland_goes_ba.html "
Billy Rubin wrote on Oct 24, 2009 12:47 PM:
Umm, you say you pay about $25,000 a year for your coverage? And you oppose public opotion?
Yeah, I think I'll view that as hokum. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 12:37 PM:
I have to contribute about $11 per hour towards my health insurance. My employer doesn't contribute one dime. "
voter wrote on Oct 24, 2009 11:50 AM:
I have employer provided coverage which I contribute to as well. I'm paying in an enormous amount. Ditto for my employer. We're both being hosed, and the coverage stinks. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 11:30 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 11:29 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 11:28 AM:
For some reason, liberals think that the only way to fix the system is to throw it all away and start new with a government option as the cornerstone. I for one just do not agree with that. "
voter wrote on Oct 24, 2009 10:56 AM:
DeputyChief wrote on Oct 24, 2009 8:52 AM:
I whole heartedly agree with your comments and appreciate the links to the information that you provided. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 8:48 AM:
'Why would someone think that a youtube video of things Barack Obama said 2 or 3 or seven years ago about health care would sway someone's opinion.'
Are you saying that since he said it a few years ago that it doesn't matter now? That is absolutely ridiculous. Show me where he has changed his stance for developing a single payer government run system. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 8:29 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 8:22 AM:
'The right is always good at giving it's believers just what they want to hear and ommiting everything else.'
I'm sorry. I forgot that 'the left' ALWAYS presents both sides. LOL! LOL! LOL! "
smokeater8 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 8:22 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 8:19 AM:
'Why would someone think that a youtube video of things Barack Obama said 2 or 3 or seven years ago about health care would sway someone's opinion.'
Even when I show obama in his own words, you still want to deny it.
My 7:41 am post is from HIS website fro 2008. How can any reasonable person deny his position on a single payer system? Pull your head out of the sand. "
sven31 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 8:13 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 8:02 AM:
Obama claims 'if you like your coverage you will not be required to change'. Yet, it's like putting ice cream and spinach on the dinner table and telling a child to choose which one they want. The child is not 'required' to push the spinach aside, but I am sure most will, in favor of the ice cream. "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 7:45 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 7:44 AM:
2 minute video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk "
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 7:41 AM:
voter wrote on Oct 24, 2009 7:37 AM:
sparky595 wrote on Oct 24, 2009 6:59 AM:
The goal of the public option is not to give more choices and competition, it is to ultimately drive the insurance companies out of business so that all that will be left is the government run single payer system. "
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