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Lodi may be headed for prayer lawsuit
Freedom From Religion Foundation will 'see how it pans out'
The day after a highly anticipated decision by the Lodi City Council on prayer, the leader of a national group says it will likely sue Lodi or another city in California over their practices.
"We'll see how it pans out and probably will have to sue because there is widespread disrespect for the law in the state of California," said Annie Gaylor, co-founder of the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Her comments come after the council decided to broaden its prayer policy to allow religious leaders to offer uncensored prayers, so Christian leaders will be able to say "Jesus Christ."
The council made some other changes and additions to the prayer policy:
— Invocations will be given before the meeting is called to order. Previously, the prayers happened after the meeting had been called to order and before the Pledge of Allegiance.
— The council will actively encourage all religious traditions within Lodi to give invocations. The city expanded this to include religious leaders who have to travel outside of Lodi to attend a place of worship like members of the Sikh or Jewish religions.
— Non-religious groups will have the opportunity to give a Call to Civic Responsibility.
— The council will continue to not allow invocations that seek to convert or demean a particular religious belief or lack thereof.
— The prayer will remain on the agenda, but there will also be a disclaimer saying the invocation is an acknowledgment of diverse religious traditions and is not an endorsement of any religion or belief.
The previous policy restricted prayer to "non-sectarian and nondenominational," but many religious leaders still said "Jesus Christ."
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, which is based in Madison, Wis., filed a letter to the city asking it enforce its own policy and eliminate references to Jesus.
Before filing a suit on the new policy, the foundation will watch the invocations under the new policy, Gaylor said.
She said the foundation will monitor the other cities in California the group has challenged — Tracy, Turlock and Tehachapi — to see what would be the best test case.
She is disappointed the council gave in to religious pressure, and hopes someday there will be a consequence for government leaders who push religion.
"There are no penalties for councilmembers," Gaylor said. "Public officials should have to answer for this instead of gambling with taxpayers' dollars."
But Century Assembly Pastor Dale Edwards said he is confident that allowing uncensored prayer will include all faiths while not restricting freedom of speech.
"I think that it allowed uncensored prayer for those of all faiths to be able to participate. For those of no faith, there was an allowance for them as well, and puts everyone on an equal playing field," Edwards said.
Edwards said he understands that the city might have to go to court over the decision, but also said there are many issues people will file lawsuits on. He believe it is courageous that the council took a stand.
"There is no guarantee that we are going to live in this country and someone is not going to be offended. ... We've lost civil liberties already. This is as far as we have to go," he said.
The city attorney's office will now draft a policy allowing uncensored prayer, and the council will vote on it at a future meeting.
The policy the council decided on Wednesday night will allow leaders to make religious references as long as they are not proselytizing.
Gaylor said opening the prayers up to anyone will be interesting because the council might become disenchanted with its own policy. She said the council might consider changing its policy after someone comes in and says the council can only be ethical if it doesn't believe in a God or says Allah should be worshipped as the only prophet.
Lodi United founder David Diskin said he wishes the city would have eliminated prayers before the meeting and gone to a moment of silence, but he will respect the council's decision. He said he would be honored to give a speech before the council meeting even though he is an atheist.
"We respect it, but we would have wished they would have opted for an option that eliminates the prayer, but instead lets them pray silently," Diskin said.
His group will still be watching the invocations to see if the city is opening it up to a variety of faiths, and to make sure they do not cross legal parameters.
"It's not the policy itself. It's the actions that take place because of the policy," Diskin said. "The actions of the next 12 months could be perfectly fine. The invocations could be non-denominational or they could be all calls for civic duty."
After hearing the council will continue prayer, Chaplain Gordon James Klingenschmitt said he was celebrating. Klingenschmitt founded The Pray in Jesus Name Project, which organized a prayer rally in August and has been encouraging Lodi to allow uncensored prayer.
"It's a testament to the faithfulness of Jesus Christ," he said. "God has answered our prayers. There were people who did a lot of things, but all the credit goes to Jesus."
He sent an e-mail to media outlets on Thursday saying it was "remarkable" timing that Mayor Larry Hansen voted for uncensored prayer after saying previously he supported non-denominational prayer. He attributes this switch in part to his press release saying he would post council votes on prayer on billboards on Highway 99 and Interstate 5.
"But Mayor Hansen, up for re-election next year, suddenly sees the light ... " Klingenschmitt wrote in reference to the billboards.
But Hansen vehemently denies the billboard threat had anything to do with his decision. He said he has been researching the issue and met with many members of the local clergy to come up with the best solution.
"If he's taking credit, that's about the saddest thing I've heard. ... I believe he has a pattern of taking credit. I believe he is in this for himself, and at some point, people will realize his true colors."
What was the previous policy?
In March 2006, the Lodi City Council adopted a protocol manual restricting prayers to "non-sectarian and non-denominational." Many religious leaders continued to make Christian references and say "Jesus Christ" even after the restriction was passed.The Freedom From Religion Foundation interpreted the policy to mean that prayers should be devoid of any religious references to a specific religion. The group complained to the city in May demanding the council enforce its own policy or face litigation.
The policy also required that the city send invitations to any religious churches in Lodi that had shown an interest in giving an invocation.
What's the new policy?
The new policy will not censor anyone giving an invocation, so religious references will be allowed, including saying "Jesus Christ." The council added additional stipulations to make sure a wide variety of people are included.
— Invocations will be given before the meeting is called to order. Previously, the prayers happened after the meeting had been called to order and before the Pledge of Allegiance.
— The council will actively encourage all religious traditions within Lodi to give invocations. The city expanded this to include religious leaders who have to travel outside of Lodi to attend a place of worship like members of the Sikh or Jewish religions.
— Non-religious groups will have the opportunity to give a Call to Civic Responsibility.
— The council will continue to prohibit invocations that seek to convert or demean a particular religious belief or lack thereof.
— The prayer will remain on the agenda, but there will also be a disclaimer saying the invocation is an acknowledgment of diverse religious traditions and is not an endorsement of any religion or belief.

Reader Feedback
Brian wrote on Dec 31, 1969 4:00 PM:
Rhodie v2.0 wrote on Oct 9, 2009 1:19 PM:
I believe there are religious leaders in this community who whole-heartedly and earnestly want to pray at CC meetings so the business done there is done with a moral compass in mind. I also know there are some who want to pray there just to make political statements and to evangilize.
"How about the groups insisting that Lodi keep prayer in Jesus name?"
I don't hold it against people who see everything they do, even deal with the government, as an opportunity to strive for unity with God's will. Some people don't compartmentalize their faith, pulling it out when it is convienent.
"How about the threats to the council insisting they keep prayer at these government meetings, or else? Sure, they're all humble and not about public recognition. Bologna."
I addressed this when it happened as well, saing "I do however think it is distasteful and not Christ-like behavior".
But I wasn't addrssing any of this with my 9:44 response, only the half-truth that Chirstians are ordered by God to only pray in private. "
Lodian wrote on Oct 9, 2009 12:05 PM:
Rhodie v2.0 wrote on Oct 9, 2009 9:44 AM:
" So, what if it is the belief of some people that it is not right to pray out-loud in public, like it says in the Bible?
This was addressed a week ago:
Rhodie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:48 PM:
The first is cited as a reason not to pray in public all the time but misses the main point, that is where we are told not to pray in public like the hypocrites do for all to see. The pray at home crowd uses this to say "see, you shouldn't pray in public". The part missed is "who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them." In the passage the people praying in public are doing so solely for the recognition of others, not for the intent of prayer. "
Lodian wrote on Oct 9, 2009 12:13 AM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 6, 2009 5:28 PM:
You're right, Ruth. "
Ruth1940 wrote on Oct 5, 2009 6:34 PM:
No civic responsibility at other times? How silly!
The new policy welcomes prayers to the devil and ignores the fact that Jesus said to pray in private and not to ask for anything, as the father already knows your needs! Quit insulting him (if he exists)! Surely the time and money being spent on public prayer, arguing and litigating it, would be better used to improve the world! "
linengray wrote on Oct 5, 2009 2:22 PM:
The Lodi City Council rules and procedures protocol manual. Since at least 2006 it has been part of this document that "Invocations are to be non-sectarian and non-denominational". See section 6.3i.
So why are they not following their own rules and regulations. That is all I am asking. Could someone explain that? "
leah wrote on Oct 4, 2009 3:46 AM:
To me, God and religion have nothing to do with one another. I believe in God, NOT religion.
rantraves said, "In a "nutshell" the godless see the solution to our problems with the removal of God"
Not all the people against this are "godless". I am against it and I believe in God. But my God doesn't need to be addressed at a City Council Meeting. Especially when it makes people uncomfortable.
jnnym: Then why are you wasting your time on this board? Go heal the wounded. "
Robb wrote on Oct 3, 2009 7:29 PM:
I am curious.., how long did it take for you to believe the crap that you are spewing?? "
Lodian wrote on Oct 3, 2009 4:21 PM:
Only you can run God out of your life. "
rantraves wrote on Oct 3, 2009 8:51 AM:
LodiEye wrote on Oct 3, 2009 12:22 AM:
I stand, with hand over my heart when the National Anthem is played, when we pledge the flag. My church displays not only a christian flag but an American flag in my church. I have a son who is fighting overseas for the right of freedom of religion, someone said it earlier, not freedom FROM religion. To those who want to seperate God from government and our nation, might I suggest you leave? Only issue you will have is finding a country where there is no God. "
capricho wrote on Oct 2, 2009 11:28 PM:
This issue is as harmless as the words, 'In God We Trust' on our currency. The athiest part of me is not offended by this iconic quote.
If anything, we all could use a bit more faith in these uncertain times. "
jnnym wrote on Oct 2, 2009 10:37 PM:
sven31 wrote on Oct 2, 2009 6:38 PM:
T & C wrote on Oct 2, 2009 6:26 PM:
dogs4you wrote on Oct 2, 2009 6:09 PM:
Gator wrote on Oct 2, 2009 5:55 PM:
dogs4you wrote on Oct 2, 2009 5:19 PM:
Brian wrote on Oct 2, 2009 5:07 PM:
" brian, you really have no idea how our court system works do you. "
-Jeff,
Tell us why you ASSUME I don't know how our court system works. "
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2009 3:51 PM:
Lodian wrote on Oct 2, 2009 3:48 PM:
Have you always been "madder"? lol!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/art/dict/madder.htm
. "
leah wrote on Oct 2, 2009 3:23 PM:
Isn't that what church is for? You can go cheer for your 'team' with others who want to cheer for the same team every gosh darn Sunday. And probably on Wednesdays nights, and potlucks and bible studies too! Or do you choose not to go to church, therefore forcing others to have to sit through church practices at a town meeting? (And when I say 'you' I mean everyone who is in favor of prayer..not attacking you personally)
Rhodie said "People who don't like that team feel like outsiders, and I recognize that. But as long as people who don't care about sports aren't insulted or attacked, why should one group supress their enthusiasm so another group can continue not care? "
So what, just screw the people who feel like outsiders? "
MEP wrote on Oct 2, 2009 3:22 PM:
That's it exactly, congrats. "
Billy Rubin wrote on Oct 2, 2009 3:03 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:57 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:57 PM:
Anyway, back to Leah. Look at it this way (since I know at least one person out there just LOVES when I use analogies), rooting for a sports team. You can do it from your own house, cheering and screaming as you see fit. But being in public with others that feel the way you do brings unity, strength and a feeling of acceptance. People who don't like that team feel like outsiders, and I recognize that. But as long as people who don't care about sports aren't insulted or attacked, why should one group supress their enthusiasm so another group can continue not care? "
Rhodie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:48 PM:
The first is cited as a reason not to pray in public all the time but misses the main point, that is where we are told not to pray in public like the hypocrites do for all to see. The pray at home crowd uses this to say "see, you shouldn't pray in public". The part missed is "who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them." In the passage the people praying in public are doing so solely for the recognition of others, not for the intent of prayer.
The second type are those who are praying in public not to be seen (recognized as pious) but to rather with heartfelt intent to open themselves up for God's will and to encourage others to do the same. Praying at home accomplishes the first part, opening self up, but the second part, encourtaging others can't be done from home. "
MEP wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:45 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:37 PM:
You asked a question about God, I answered. I can't help it if you don't like the answer.
Leah wrote: "The point is...why do you have to pray in a public place? Can't you say your prayer in private at home before you leave for the meeting?"
I'm sure a lot of people do pray before coming to the meetings. I haven't been to one so I can't speak for myself. As for the prayer in public at the meetings some of the resistance could come from Matt 18:20 "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them" (note: It doesn't say He's happy with what they are doing.) For Christians, attending any meeting (even Government meetings) with the intent of being gathering in His name is a core value. Telling them they cannot have their core value because it offends you tells them you don't want them recognizing that central value of their faith. "
MEP wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:33 PM:
leah wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:28 PM:
Welp, goin to the grocery store. When I get there I better stop and pray to God in the isle where everybody can see me because I'm sure he wants to have a say in which laundry soap I'll buy. It's probably almost as important to him as what the Lodi City Council has on their agenda. "
MEP wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:27 PM:
dogs4you wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:24 PM:
Gator wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:08 PM:
Rhodie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 2:02 PM:
MEP, May I address this one? The true Christian understanding of God is all about choice. It is believed that Humans were placed above the angels after creation because of choice. The angels always knew, accepted and Loved God (even Lucifer), but Creation came along and was given the power of choice giving us a closer relationship with God.
Now, how does that apply to your question, God isn't allowing Himself to be removed, He is allowing us to choose Him or not. This is why so many Christians get worked up about removing God from anything, they (we) don't like the concept of NOT choosing God. If God wanted Creation to be as the angels, accepting with no real choice then He could do it. As Jesus said in the Garden, God could send 40 legion of angel to defend Him, but that would take away the choice aspect. "
MEP wrote on Oct 2, 2009 1:22 PM:
pooreastside wrote on Oct 2, 2009 1:17 PM:
wtf wrote on Oct 2, 2009 12:18 PM:
Jerome R. Kinderman wrote on Oct 2, 2009 12:13 PM:
To the question of why this isn't going to the Supreme Court; it is. And this is precisely what this has been about. Lodi was chosen as the start. There was no way this was not going to wind up in the courts. The Ninth Circuit is "the" court for such a matter to find its way to the Supreme Nine in D.C.
To have thought the City Council's decision would have been the end is quite naive. These strangers to Lodi don't care about us or what we do here - they simply want to eradicate any form of "religion" from the face of our national map; and they'll do anything they can to accomplish that goal.
They're relying upon a nation that has so lost its way morally that soon we very well might see the elimination of the First Amendment altogether. And why not? Political Correctness will replace our Bill of Rights, unless we stop them. "
dyan wrote on Oct 2, 2009 11:21 AM:
linengray wrote on Oct 2, 2009 11:02 AM:
So why are they not following their own rules and regulations. That is all I am asking. Could someone explain that? "
dogs4you wrote on Oct 2, 2009 10:55 AM:
Aarinaga wrote on Oct 2, 2009 10:44 AM:
Mazie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 10:20 AM:
MEP wrote on Oct 2, 2009 10:10 AM:
MEP wrote on Oct 2, 2009 10:08 AM:
Cogito wrote on Oct 2, 2009 10:00 AM:
Mazie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 9:52 AM:
4CivilRights wrote on Oct 2, 2009 9:13 AM:
4CivilRights wrote on Oct 2, 2009 9:07 AM:
Bob Hussein Loblaw wrote on Oct 2, 2009 9:03 AM:
jeff wrote on Oct 2, 2009 8:47 AM:
rantraves wrote on Oct 2, 2009 8:44 AM:
Gator wrote on Oct 2, 2009 8:41 AM:
you don’t read the Bible, Koran or the Book of Mormon. The roof of the Church Won’t come crashing down if I who doesn’t go that often walk in some Sunday.. I think a Country the has more Junkies, more Murders more divorce More people behind Bars than all the countries of the western world combined could use a little guidance . Accountability to some one is a good
reason to shun Religion. Some think they can do what they want with little
recourse if they don’t have to answer to a so-called higher power. As for the
Invocations at city meetings, if you chose not to listen, I-Pod and head phones.. Lastly “A Man hears what he wants to and disregards the Rest..” "
Brian wrote on Oct 2, 2009 8:26 AM:
FFRF Contests Philadelphia City Council Prayers
-This foundation is just a bunch of panty waistes. They won't file a lawsuit against the City of Philadelphia. "
Brian wrote on Oct 2, 2009 8:21 AM:
Brian wrote on Oct 2, 2009 8:18 AM:
that grants them the right to spew their trash from their hateful website. "
Brian wrote on Oct 2, 2009 8:07 AM:
Brian wrote on Oct 2, 2009 7:56 AM:
And Obama would be right there telling her and this stupid foundation she represents how out of line they are.
They should be obligated to reimburse the City of Lodi for all of the legal fees they have because of this FRIVILOUS
lawsuit. "
OTH wrote on Oct 2, 2009 7:50 AM:
It was reported on I believe Channel 13 news that the city attorney and another attorney in the audience recommended to the council that this policy not be adopted. I have not heard or read anything about that since. Can anyone confirm this or was it just the media spicing things up as they have been known to do? "
Jeff wrote on Oct 2, 2009 7:28 AM:
Rhodie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 7:04 AM:
I think those that lead the prayer or call to duty should be members of the community, not outsiders coming in. They should also be people who are community leaders, that is people who are active in community groups, issues, and outreaches.
An interesting side thought is the prayer, call to duty is to be done BEFORE the call to order so it is done BEFORE state business is conducted. "
Mazie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 6:07 AM:
Mazie wrote on Oct 2, 2009 5:48 AM:
Comments on this story are now closed.